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John Ashcroft
01-24-2004, 10:37 PM
Did President Bush "desert" the military, as radical filmmaker Michael Moore insists he did?

Presidential candidate Gen. Wesley Clark suggested during New Hampshire's presidential debate Thursday night that the facts on whether Bush ran out on his National Guard unit in 1972 and 1973 are in dispute.

But in the months before the 2000 presidential election, the New York Times pretty much demolished this Democratic Party urban legend, a myth that first surfaced in its sister paper, the Boston Globe.

"For a full year, there is no record that Bush showed up for the periodic drills required of part-time guardsmen," the Globe insisted in May 2000, in a report Moore currently cites on his Web site to rebut ABC newsman Peter Jennings' debate challenge to Clark that the story is "unsupported by the facts."

"I don't know whether [Moore's desertion charge] is supported by the facts or not," Clark replied "I've never looked at it."

The Times did, however, look at it, and found that Bush had indeed served during part of the time the Globe had him AWOL - and later made up whatever time he missed after requesting permission for the postponement.

In July 2000 the Times noted that Bush's chief accuser in the Globe report, retired Gen. William Turnipseed, had begun to back away from his story that Bush never appeared for service during the time in question.

"In a recent interview," said the Times, "[Turnipseed] took a tiny step back, saying, 'I don't think he did, but I wouldn't stake my life on it.'" In fact, military records obtained by the Times showed that Turnipseed was wrong and that the Globe had flubbed the story.

"A review by The Times showed that after a seven-month gap, he appeared for duty in late November 1972 at least through July 1973," the paper noted on Nov. 3, 2000.

The Times explained:

"On Sept. 5, 1972, Mr. Bush asked his Texas Air National Guard superiors for assignment to the 187th Tactical Recon Group in Montgomery [Alabama] 'for the months of September, October and November,'" so Bush could manage the Senate campaign of Republican Winton Blount.

"Capt. Kenneth K. Lott, chief of the personnel branch of the 187th Tactical Recon Group, told the Texas commanders that training in September had already occurred but that more training was scheduled for Oct. 7 and 8 and Nov. 4 and 5."

After the Bush AWOL story had percolated for months, Col. Turnipseed finally remembered another glitch in his story: the fact that National Guard regulations allowed Guard members to miss duty as long as it was made up within the same quarter.

And, in fact - according to the Times - that's what Bush did.

"A document in Mr. Bush's military records," the paper said, "showed credit for four days of duty ending Nov. 29 and for eight days ending Dec. 14, 1972, and, after he moved back to Houston, on dates in January, April and May."

The paper found corroboration for the document, noting, "The May dates correlated with orders sent to Mr. Bush at his Houston apartment on April 23, 1973, in which Sgt. Billy B. Lamar told Mr. Bush to report for active duty on May 1-3 and May 8-10."

Yet another document obtained by the Times blew the Bush AWOL story out of the water.

It showed that Bush served at various times from May 29, 1973, through July 30, 1973 - "a period of time questioned by The Globe," the Times sheepishly admitted.

Link: here (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/1/24/154936.shtml)

FORD
01-24-2004, 10:54 PM
Money buys a lot of forged documents. It's especially convenient when all the witnesses are dead.

Va Beach VH Fan
01-25-2004, 08:11 AM
Who knows whether he made it up or not, for argument sake, let's say he did...

To me, in terms of his basic duties, the key point is the fact that he missed seven months of duty....

The normal Billy Joe Bob in Texas would never be able to pull that off, but all that good 'ol Dubya apparently needs to do is make a phone call or two (or maybe Daddy Bush)....

His ass should have been in the grass in Vietnam along with a million of his fellow Americans....

BigBadBrian
01-25-2004, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by Va Beach VH Fan


His ass should have been in the grass in Vietnam along with a million of his fellow Americans....


Like Clinton, Dean, Gore (REMF)................

FORD
01-25-2004, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Like Clinton, Dean, Gore (REMF)................

And Cheney, and Wolfoshitz, and Perle, and DeLay, and Limpdick with his ass pimple.

diamondD
01-25-2004, 11:26 AM
The thing I don't understand is, why does anyone act like this is a partisan thing and that it hasn't been happening ever since we had a military?

diamondD
01-25-2004, 11:29 AM
But, I do think Clark's stupid defense of Michael Moore will hurt his standing with a lot of military people who considered him.

Catfish
01-25-2004, 01:15 PM
No shit.

The same assholes who are calling Bush a deserter (i.e. MIchael Mooreon) are the same jagoffs who defended Clinton, the biggest, most blatant draft dodger of them all.

Hey, what's the difference between Jane Fonda and Bill Clinton?

Fonda WENT to Vietnam.

Va Beach VH Fan
01-25-2004, 01:22 PM
No, no, no....

You can look it up if you'd like, but I DID include Clinton in the other Bush ANG thread a couple of weeks ago, but simply didn't add the Clinton caveat this time around....So sorry....

It doesn't matter to me what the lame excuse is, nor what political party you're affiliated with, if you didn't go to Vietnam because your family pulled a few strings, THAT'S what I have a problem with....

BigBadBrian
01-25-2004, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by diamondD
But, I do think Clark's stupid defense of Michael Moore will hurt his standing with a lot of military people who considered him.

Yup. I don't know if I could fully support Wes Clark with Moron Moore backing him. Madonna's got more sense than that donut-quaffing idiot. :gulp:

Seshmeister
01-25-2004, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by Va Beach VH Fan
No, no, no....

You can look it up if you'd like, but I DID include Clinton in the other Bush ANG thread a couple of weeks ago, but simply didn't add the Clinton caveat this time around....So sorry....

It doesn't matter to me what the lame excuse is, nor what political party you're affiliated with, if you didn't go to Vietnam because your family pulled a few strings, THAT'S what I have a problem with....

Va is 100% correct.

The rest of you are sad trying to score points for people who don't give a flying fuck about you or yours.

Why not debate your favorite serial killer?

Cheers!

:gulp:

BigBadBrian
01-25-2004, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister


Why not debate your favorite serial killer?



I used to be interested in the Zodiac Killer because I use to live a stone's throw from where he did some of his handiwork in the San Francisco area. :cool:

Here's a Zodiac Killer Website. (http://www.zodiackiller.com)

Seshmeister
01-25-2004, 10:46 PM
That is a creepy site

John Ashcroft
01-27-2004, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
Va is 100% correct.

The rest of you are sad trying to score points for people who don't give a flying fuck about you or yours.

Why not debate your favorite serial killer?

Cheers!

:gulp:

Oh, we're now "sad" huh?

Man I wish I had important issues to worry about. You know, things like which sheep to fuck next, and where to buy my next toothbrus... Oh never mind. Just stick to sheep.