View Full Version : The weekly serial killer profile thread

01-25-2004, 11:06 AM
WHY? WHY not???

A new one each week. We're gonna start out with the less-popular, more prolific killers. Hell anybody can do a search for Bundy, or Gacy, but what about all the other less recognized psychopaths out there? Dont they deserve recognition too?? And of course I'm just stealin this shit so dont blame me if somethings wrong.....

Got any favorites? I'll take requests.....Now on to the slaughter........

This ones for Elvis..........

Jake Bird
BORN : December 14, 1901

DIED : July 15, 1949


Jake Bird was born "somewhere out in Louisiana where there ain't no post office." He lived in this place until he was 19 when he seemed to decide that he might like to try a town with a post office. Over the following years of his life he never really settled down anywhere for long. he worked as everything from a manual laborer to a "gandy dancer" on railroads. it was this type of work that built Jake's strength, and also allowed him to keep moving from town to town, always finding something to do for money.

Birds travels ended on October 30, 1947, when he was arrested in Tacoma, Washington. It seems Jake was passing through a street when he decided to have a little fun. He chose the house of Bertha Kludt, 52. Also in the house was her teenage daughter, Beverly. Well Jake went around the back of the house and found an ax. He then stripped off all his clothes and took the ax with him into the house. I guess that poor Mrs. Kludt and her daughter were a little surprised by a naked black man running through there house swinging an ax, and the showed there fear by screaming, which alerted neighbors who called police. The police though were not quick enough as by the time they had arrived at the scene Jake had bludgeoned both the Kludt ladies to death with the ax. As they walked through the house they spotted Bird walking in the back yard carrying his shoes. When he seen the police officers he came charging at the cops with a knife. He managed to slash two of them but was overpowered and was beaten into unconsciousness. He spent the next few days in hospital.

When he was ready to speak Bird denied the charges. But his stance soon changed when it came out that police had found brain tissue in his trousers, and it would be hard to explain how that got there, so he admitted to the crime. Being a black man accused of killing whites didn't really help his cause much and Bird was sentence to die. It would seem that Jake wasn't ready to go just yet though. He made a few deals and somehow ended up putting the execution back two years, during which time he told of his many crimes throughout his life.

From these stories it became fair to assume that Bird was involved in at least 44 murders. Well he at least showed enough knowledge to be consider prime suspect in that many murders. Of these 44 only eleven were proven beyond doubt. Bird had certainly gotten around over the years, he had committed a murder in Illinois, Kentucky, Nebraska, Kansas, South Dakota, Ohio, Florida and Wisconsin. In addition to the 44 murders police believed he was involved in many more but these could be just written off as cops trying to clean up there books of unsolved murders (like with Henry Lee Lucas).

It seems that Bird like one particular type of victim - white women. He particularly like white women cowering in fear of him. Most were killed with an ax or hatchet also.

Jake Birds luck, and confessions, ran out on July 15, 1949. He was hung at Walla Walla in Washington State. (or should that be "he was put to death by hanging")

An Interesting Bit:
While in prison it was reported that jake Bird put a few 'Hexes' on fellow prisoners. A local paper printed stories on these Hexes being very feared by prisoners as a few of those Bird cursed ended up dying. Obviously this is all bullshit, but it is kind of interesting.

Next week: Eugene Butler!!!!

01-25-2004, 04:11 PM
Great idea Igo...I'm gonna sticky this !

01-29-2004, 01:00 PM
Thank you Eiltest, at least SOMEBODY gets it!!!!!!

Time to bump this up a bit, Lets see if we can get some traffic, shall we??

This weeks (early) main attraction........Eugene Butler - An early influence for Gacy perhaps? This old bastard had them all fooled.

BORN : ??

DIED : 1913


Eugene Butler was known to be a bit of a nutcase. In fact he spent the last seven years of his life in an asylum.

He had lived almost all of his life outside of Niagara, North Dakota. He was known as being a recluse, and was also very paranoid. He spent quite a bit of his time avoiding people, with the only one's he spoke to being young men he hired as farm hands.

When Butler died in the local nuthouse no one really suspected him of anything except of being a bit weird, but two years after his death a little suprise was to be had by all.

During a routine excavation of the late Butler's house a hidden trapdoor was found to open to the ground beneath the floor. Upon a small amount of digging a couple of bones were found, then a skull. The local cops were called.

Over the next few days six complete skeletons were uncovered from the ground beneath Butler's floorboards. The coroner said they had all been males, between the ages of 15-18. As no one knew of anyone that age who had gone missing the bodies went unidentified. They remain so.

All had been killed by crushing blows to the backs of the head. As there were no living witnesses, and Butler himself was dead, it was theorized that he had thought the farm hands were planning to rob him, so he decided to strike first. Those who had contact with Butler had heard him talk about such fantasies before, so it was decided that was the motive.

It would seem though that Butler may have been an early 1900's Gacy, Nilsen or Corll, but as the local law enforcement knew little of sex crimes they didn't think about this as a more logical motive.

The crimes sound quite similar to our modern day gay killers, and if the real motive was sex, then Butler deserves to be recognized as being a pre cursor to the Gacy's of this world. I see Butler as being like an old guy in Deliverance.

And THIS weekend kiddies, a special treat..........

Gobindra Singh - A serial killing Elephant. If this ain't wacky I don't know what the fuck is.


01-29-2004, 07:20 PM
Butler's the man. he got away with it.

01-29-2004, 11:34 PM
What about the Catholic Church??? They have been killing people in large numbers for centuries.

01-30-2004, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by alexpgrimes
What about the Catholic Church??? They have been killing people in large numbers for centuries.

Do I smell REQUEST here Alexpgrimes?????

The religion angle turns you on, Huh???? KINKY.........

Okie dokie, We aims to please here at IGOs serial killer thread. So may I introduce........


A popular German killer of the 60's. Even if he did want to be a preist.

BORN : 1941

DIED : may still be alive


Born is Germany , Klaus Gossman began life by seeing his father murdered by the U.S. army at the end of World War Two. Not surprisingly he went on to lead a pretty violent life. According to those that knew his he was obsessed by violence.

At nineteen he decided on a career path - "Death's Agent."

He went on to be known as the "Midday Murderer" because his murders all occurred at midday. The reason for this wasn't anything mystical or ritualistic - it was because the church bells that rang each day in his hometown of Nuremberg were so loud that they covered the gunshots that ended his victims lives.

Gossman was studying theology in 1960 when he began his new career in murder. He had planned the first one carefully. He left the library where he had been studying just in time for the bells. As soon as they began to chime - he pulled out his gun and shot two people dead. As soon as the bells stopped he returned to the library to complete his studying. He also took out his diary where he recorded the murders. He also wrote about his strong desire to become a priest.

This double murder seemed to satisfy Gossmans blood lust for some time - but the urge came back. In 1962 he robbed a bank (you won't be surprised to know that the robbery took place at midday). During this robbery Gossman got carried away and killed the banks director.

The bank robbery had worked brilliantly, so Gossman decide to do it again a few months later. He again got away with the money, and again shot and killed a man. The robbery happened at midday.

On March 29, 1963, Gossman decided Banks were getting boring. He robbed a gun shop instead. This time he killed two people - the elderly owner and her 29 year old son.

Gossman took the rest of the year off, and then decided that maybe it was time that he killed for his country, not just himself, so he joined the army.

Obviously Army life wasn't quite what he expected as he deserted just four months later.

Not long after his desertion he killed again. He tried to snatch a bag in a Nuremberg department store, but when the victim decided that he wasn't getting it without a fight he pulled out his gun and shot her. Gossman had no where to run following this crime and was arrested at the scene.

When police made a search of his stuff they found his diary that had accounts of all his murders. It also had a long plan written about how Gossman was going to abduct German actress Elke Sommer. He had also scratched her name into the barrel of the gun. One would think that she would have been rather happy when she learned of his arrest.

He was tried for the murders, and as the police had a huge amount of evidence against him, he was convicted. As far as I know he is still serving out his life sentence.......

01-30-2004, 10:53 PM
I was talking in generalities but this is ok too...lol

01-31-2004, 08:12 AM
Glad to hear it.....

Now as promised without further adue we have.........

Gobindra Singh!

A serial killer elephant you say IGO??? How is this possible??

Read on doubt'ers!!!!

BORN : ??
DIED : December 27, 1998


Well this one is a wonderful, yet very sad tale of an animal fighting back against the abuse from it's human tormentors. For those who never heard about this case I will fill you in a little on this hero of animal kind.

Gobindra Singh was a bull elephant. He was a very pissed off elephant actually. As we all know millions of Gobindra Singh's relatives have been killed by us bastards. So Gobindra decided to fight back. And before this shitty race of ours added him to it's list of victims, he struck. And he struck. And he struck.

The story of Gobindra Singh took place in India where it is illegal to hunt elephants these days (although that doesn't stop anyone from the act). So because of this law Gobindra was able to repeatedly get away with his actions. And what exactly were his actions?

Well Gobindra Singh (I don't know who named him, or what the name means) was living in an area where the land was quickly being overtaken by humans. And this really pissed him off. So he decided to take his land back.

Over a one and a half year period Gobindra Singh trampled at least 19 people to death. He also destroyed countless crops and smashed over 150 huts. From all accounts the Indians were asking for it. They were moving into HIS backyard, killing HIS family, cutting down HIS food. And if some cunt was building a house in my backyard, killing my family and eating all my food, well I'd do more than trample them, and I'm sure most of you would too. You could say that Gobindra Singh was acting purely in self defense.

Okay, now we go to the demise of poor Gobindra.

For an elephant to be legally murdered in India he/she must be declared a "rouge". Since all of Gobindra's victims were poor villagers and the like he was able to get away with it for the first 18 killings, but with his last attack he chose someone of a higher standing in the community. You see, the government knew about Gobindra's murder spree so they sent a veterinarian out to the Tinsukhia district to check out what was wrong with him. So this vet hunter our hero down and shoots him, admittedly with a tranquilizer but poor Gobindra wasn't to know that was he?

So when poor Gobindra woke up he was being assaulted by this vet in ways that we all would find to be totally humiliating (a thermometer up the ass is not my idea of fun anyway). So Gobindra acted in the only way he could, he rolled over on top of his assailant to stop the vicious assault, and accidentally killed the vet. For the government this was what they were waiting for. They quickly declared Gobindra Singh a "rouge" and he was hunted down by three armed bounty hunters and viciously slaughtered.

I think that this final act by man sums up poor Gobindra Singh's life, and says an awful lot about who the real criminal is in this story.

A poor defenseless animal versus three hired assassins, not really a fair fight is it?

What can one possibly say to add to this case?
Good one Gobindra Singh, I hope that other animals can learn from your example and stop taking shit from us humans that try to enslave you........

Next stop: An old perennial favorite that besides slaughtering people, liked to stick needles in his groin for fun (pics too!!!)

Stay tuned!!!!!!!

01-31-2004, 04:45 PM
Thats amazing Igo.....

now who is that Wisconsin killer they are always on about there....is it ED GEEN or something like that..?

01-31-2004, 07:55 PM
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh yes....Little Eddie Gein....from plainfield Wisconsin...

The inspiration for psycho, The Texas Chainsaw massacre, Silence of the lambs, and I'm sure others...

You know, He had a belt adorned with nipples.....And a basket full of salted vulvas...among other special things.

Sure you want to hear more???

Since this is a special request, It will take a few days to work up.. But for you baybee...you got it..

02-01-2004, 05:14 AM
This is a fucking stupid thread.

Why is it "stickied" to the top of the forum?

I guess I'll just continue to ignore it.

You two enjoy yourselves.

Eyes of the Night
02-01-2004, 06:34 AM
Nah, Igo is cool and Elite is british ... I get the humor a bit though ... as users we shouldn't judge a moderators action by means of the sticky ...

But I'll go out on a limb as a user and say this ain't stick worthy:D ...


02-01-2004, 07:33 AM
Originally posted by DLR7884
This is a fucking stupid thread.

As opposed to some of the others here?

Why is it "stickied" to the top of the forum?

Its stickied because I asked. Its at the top from the replys

I guess I'll just continue to ignore it.

That would solve your problem now wouldnt it.....

You two enjoy yourselves.

All I have to do is figure out how to get Elitest to my house and that wont be a problem!!

02-01-2004, 02:11 PM
What a waste of the sticky power :)

I'm not trying to be a dick, just letting you all know that nobody but you two care about this thread.

Abuse of power sucks.

02-02-2004, 05:47 AM
Oh stop behaving like a spoiled little brat....you will find there are more people than just Igo and I read this.....

y'know Dave used to like you.......even though you stood me up at Bristow 2002 and went off fingering chicks instead...

but if you think I give a flying fart whether or not YOU like it that this thread is stickied you are sadly mistaken....if we get no more replies from others in a week or so then probably it might become unstickied..but as it is a weekly thread principally it needs to be kept at the top so weekly viewers can keep up....not everyone lives in here all the time....


Golden AWe
02-02-2004, 11:46 AM
Well I enjoy this thread too!

Keep up the good work!

02-02-2004, 12:51 PM
Why thankee for the support.... Something oddly attractive about serial murder, sorta like the bad car accident you cant help but look at..

OOOOOOOOk, I cant find the one I wanted to post with the needles, so your gonna have to make due with...................


(This is for all you people from Texas, Yeeee Hawww)

BORN : 1892

DIED : September 24, 1938

VICTIMS : ?? at the VERY least 5, but most probably 14+.

I think it would be fair to say that Joe Ball was one of the U.S.'s greatest nutcases. You see, Joe ran a small bar outside of Elmendorf, Texas, on Highway 181. In fact the name of the place was quite amusing - The Sociable Inn. Well our Joe had a few problems with women, well it was a big problem actually, he couldn't get rid of them. Or at least not until he installed a big concrete pool out the back of the Inn. In this pool he kept 5 alligators. And from this point on it gets interesting.

The Sociable Inn became well known around the area once Joe began feeding his new pets in front of audiences. It was also popular for it's many different barmaids and waitresses, it seemed Joe had an endless supply of them coming and going. His wives also seemed to disappear quite regularly too. But one thing that Joe always had was fresh meat for the alligators.

Joe was very protective of these animals as well. Once, when a neighbor complained about the stench of rotten meat, Joe pulled out a gun and threateningly explained that it must have been the 'Gators food' and that the neighbor should mind his own business in future. Another neighbor was so threatened by Joe that he moved to another city to get away from 'that crazy guy.'

For Joe Ball things seemed to be going well, despite the fact that his waitresses keep leaving in the middle of the night, never telling anyone of there departure. This was until 1937, when one such waitress, Minnie Gotthardt, 22, had worried family members speaking to police. As Minnie was employed by Ball the police questioned him, but unable to find any substantial evidence, he was cleared of any involvement.

A few months later another family went crying to police about there missing daughter, Julia Turner, who also happened to work for Ball. The police went back down to the Inn, and Ball gave them the same answer as last time. He said she had said she was having troubles and wanted to leave the area. When police did a check of her room it was quickly found she hadn't packed any clothes. So they went back to Joe Ball for a second round of questioning, telling him she had packed no clothes. On this occasion Ball suddenly remembered that he had lent her $500 because she was desperate, and could not go back to her home as she was having trouble with her roommate. Ball was again in the clear

Unfortunately Ball couldn't seem to stop himself and in the next few months two more employees went missing. The local police turned the case over to the Texas Rangers who did a check into Balls previous employees and found a few dozen of them had vanished. More damning for Ball was the fact that no one had seen either his second or third wives since they 'ran out' on him. The jig was almost up for Joe Ball.

The Texas Rangers questioned Ball relentlessly, but he wouldn't crack. He gave them nothing. Unfortunately for Ball though, he had left a few too many strings untied. His head handyman cracked and told of times that he was forced at gunpoint to feed pieces of female corpses to the alligators. And his old neighbor was back in town to tell why he ran away. He had witnessed Ball hacking pieces of meat from a human and feeding them to his alligators. The cops almost had enough to get Ball.

On September 24, 1938, Police showed up at The Sociable Inn to check Ball's meat barrel. Realizing the it was all over poor old Joe Ball hit the "NO SALE" button on the cash register. He then reached in and grabbed his pistol from the draw inside. With only two possibilities to choose from Ball chose the easier of the two. He shot himself. Some say it was a shot to the heart, some say a shot to the head, either way it was only one shot, and it was fatal. Joe Ball took his secrets to the grave and unfortunately we will never know exactly how many women found themselves being used as "'Gator Food".

Interesting Bits:
It was a well told joke for years before his discovery that Ball fed his waitresses to his alligators.

Ball's handyman, William Sneed, despite admitting to helping dispose of bodies, only spent two years in prison.

For a special treat Ball sometimes fed his 'Gators live Cats and Dogs.

The Alligators were sent off to the San Antonio zoo. One would think that they had a change in diet while there.

Tobe Hopper, of Texas Chainsaw Massacre fame, made a film that would seem to be based on Joe Ball.
It was called "Eaten Alive."

Ball's third wife eventually surfaced years later. It seems that she knew about her predecessors fate and decided that she didn't want to go the same way. She ran away, but knew about "4 or so" murders.
She was never charged with any crime.

A new feature!! Serial killer quote of the week!!!

Q. "What do you think when you see a pretty girl walking down the street?"
A. "One side of me says, 'I'd like to talk to her, date her.' The other side of me says, 'I wonder how her head would look on a stick?'"

02-02-2004, 05:12 PM
Harold Shipman found dead in cell

Shipman is thought to have killed at least 215 people
Killer doctor Harold Shipman has died after being found hanging in his cell in Wakefield Prison.
Shipman was discovered at 0620 GMT on Tuesday by staff who tried to revive him, but he was pronounced dead at 0810 GMT.

He was jailed for life in January 2000 for murdering 15 patients while working in Hyde, Greater Manchester.

An official report later concluded he killed between 215 and 260 people over a 23-year period in Hyde and Todmorden, West Yorkshire.

The 57-year-old GP was given 15 life sentences to run concurrently for the murders, and four years for forging a will.

Click here for a map charting how the killings gathered pace
He was the UK's most prolific convicted serial killer, but always denied his crimes.

Jane Ashton-Hibbert, whose grandmother Hilda was unlawfully killed by Shipman, said she was angry he had been allowed to die.

She told BBC News: "This seems like an easy way out for him. He never showed any remorse or any guilt and that door is now closed to us."

I just wish he had been forthcoming and admitted he had done those things - it would have put a lot of people's minds at rest

Kathleen Wood
Granddaughter of Shipman victim

Victims' relatives 'not sorry'

And Kathleen Wood, whose 83-year-old mother Bessie Baddeley died in 1997, said: "I am not sorry he has gone, but it brings it all back and it stirs it all up for us again."

A Prison Service spokeswoman said he used bedsheets to hang himself from the window bars of his cell.

"He was showing no signs whatsoever of pre-suicidal behaviour at all," she said.

"He was behaving utterly normally. He was working as normal and doing education as normal.

"There was absolutely no indication that this was coming and he was giving no cause for concern."

Shipman widow

Prisons Minister Paul Goggins said prisons ombudsman Stephen Shaw would carry out an investigation into Shipman's death.

A separate police and coroner inquiry is also to be carried out.

Shortly after 1100 GMT, an undertaker's van took Shipman's body from Wakefield prison to the Medico Legal Centre in Sheffield for a post-mortem and formal identification.

The GP, who leaves a widow, Primrose, was on suicide watch at two other prisons earlier in his sentence, but not at Wakefield since his arrival on 18 June last year.

I don't think it fair or reasonable to suggest prison officers at Wakefield Prison were lax

Brian Caton
Prison Officers' Association

Shipman cell mate's suicide
Suicide risk for lifers
BBC home affairs correspondent Andy Tighe said the death would be very embarrassing for the Prison Service, coming after Soham murderer Ian Huntley attempted suicide by taking a drugs overdose in Woodhill Prison last year.

Fred West was found hanged in his cell in Birmingham on New Year's Day 1995 while awaiting trial for multiple murders.

Marjorie Wallace, chief executive of mental health charity Sane, said: "The death of Harold Shipman exposes what we already know.

"The prison psychiatric services are threadbare and unable to supervise either those with known mental illness or a history of suicide attempts."

But Brian Caton, of the Prison Officers' Association, said Shipman had given no indication of suicide in interviews or in his interaction with prison officers.

Last month it emerged that the serial killer had been stripped of his privileges at Wakefield because of poor behaviour.

But the benefits - such as a television in his cell and the right to wear personal clothing - were returned last week.

You used a calculating and cold-blooded perversion of your medical skills

Mr Justice Thayne Forbes
Shipman trial judge
A police officer read a statement to the media from outside Primrose Shipman's house in Walshford, West Yorkshire.

It said there would be no comment from the Shipman family and added: "They have asked you to respect their privacy. This is a very upsetting time for them."

Within hours of his death, the word "justice" had been scrawled 12 times across his former surgery in Hyde.

The vast majority of Shipman's victims were elderly women who were given lethal heroin injections.

Attempted forgery

He was brought to justice after attempting to forge the £386,000 will of one of his victims, Kathleen Grundy, 81.

After the trial, a public inquiry was launched into how the GP was able to escape detection for so long.

It was chaired by High Court judge Dame Janet Smith, whose first report, in 2002, found the former GP had killed at least 215 patients and possibly as many as 260.

Her final report is due out in the summer.

Of Shipman's 215 likely victims, 171 were women and 44 were men.

The oldest was a 93-year-old woman, the youngest a 41-year-old man.


02-02-2004, 05:14 PM
Can you post some pics too Igo so we can see what these killers looked like...particularly the elephant!!

02-03-2004, 12:21 AM
Originally posted by Elitest
Oh stop behaving like a spoiled little brat....you will find there are more people than just Igo and I read this.....

Not really.

Originally posted by Elitest

y'know Dave used to like you.......even though you stood me up at Bristow 2002 and went off fingering chicks instead...

Jeez, imagine that, I'd rather have my fingers buried up a hick's twat than meet you in the parking lot.

Originally posted by Elitest

but if you think I give a flying fart whether or not YOU like it that this thread is stickied you are sadly mistaken....if we get no more replies from others in a week or so then probably it might become unstickied..but as it is a weekly thread principally it needs to be kept at the top so weekly viewers can keep up....not everyone lives in here all the time....

:rolleyes: [/B]

It's a stupid fucking thread.

I'm done here.

Enjoy yourselves.

02-03-2004, 12:23 AM
And I did mean "hick."

She was a fucking redneck.

02-03-2004, 03:13 AM
I suppose there is someone somewhere who understands the "logic" of that...bye Dave !

02-03-2004, 07:56 AM
Sorry Elitest, No pictures of the Elephant... But I did find one of Joe Ball...

I'll attach them when I can can find 'em....

I guess the caption should be "Joe and gator bait"!!!!

02-03-2004, 09:07 AM
I like this thread...

7884 adds an interesting perspective...


Junyore Grades
02-03-2004, 09:10 AM
There's nothing wrong with this thread. It's like a mystery, but you already know "who done it". It's interesting!
It's not like I'm so week mided that I'm going to read this and go kill all my co-workers,... even though, some would deserve it. They get more raises than me, they drive nicer cars, they...

Junyore Grades
02-03-2004, 09:17 AM
I now sit in a pool of blood, everyone around me are dead! THEY'RE ALL DEAD!!!


02-03-2004, 01:02 PM
So that means you could be next weeks profile JG!!!!!!!!

Just so you get it right, Heres the definition of a "serial Killer"

What constitutes a serial killer.
Serial Murder is defined as three or more separate events in three or more separate locations with an emotional cooling off period between homicides. The serial murder is hypothesized to be premeditated, involving offense related fantasy and detailed planning. When the time is right for him and he has cooled off from his last homicide, the serial killer selects his next victim and proceeds with his plan. the cooling off period can last for days, weeks, or months and is the key feature that distinguishes the serial killer from other multiple killers.
(Crime Classification Manual, Ressler, Douglas, Burgess, Burgess. 1992.)

Two more and your there!! Remember, practice makes perfect....

02-03-2004, 01:14 PM
JG !!

blood on the carpet...this sounds promising!!

Yeah DLR7884 always does add a new perspective on matters.....always has..... hopefully always will ....but I dont think he'll return in this thread.....

Junyore Grades
02-03-2004, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by Elitest
Yeah DLR7884 always does add a new perspective on matters.....always has..... hopefully always will ....but I dont think he'll return in this thread.....

Not with me looking for two more souls to feed to the pit of iniquity.:anger: It's good to have goals!:D

02-03-2004, 06:47 PM

02-04-2004, 12:02 AM
Oh hell, you know I'd return to this thread.

I'm the reason people are starting to fucking read it.

You're welcome. :)

02-04-2004, 12:04 AM
I'm the reason that it's now 2 pages.

You're welcome again. :)

02-04-2004, 03:30 AM
Thank you honey.........

now back to work.......I must look up Peter Sutcliffe....( and I dont mean literally ...)

02-04-2004, 06:49 AM
Originally posted by DLR7884
I'm the reason that it's now 2 pages.

You're welcome again. :)

Your not thanked...

I'd rather it die on its own than have you think that the only reason its still here is you..

Run along now, and stop being such an attention whore.

02-04-2004, 07:02 AM
Now on to todays main attraction..... An instant request as it were...we have...

'The Yorkshire Ripper'

"I thought 'God, what have I done?'...I realised I would be in serious trouble.
I thought the best way out of the mess was to make sure she could not tell anybody - peter sutcliffe

BORN : 2 June 1946

DIED : Not Yet (despite many attempts)

VICTIMS : 13 dead, 7 survivors.

5/7/75 - Sutcliffe makes his first attack on a prostitute, Anna Rogulskyj survives. Sutcliffe fails.
15/8/75 - Second attack, this time with a brick. Olive Smart lives, Sutcliffe fails again.
30/10/75 - Sutcliffe finally succeeds. Wilma McCann, 28, goes down as the first 'ripper' victim.
Sutcliffe killed her just 100 yards from her home. 14 stab wounds and two big fuckin' hammer blows too the back of the head. Pete's M.O. had been set.
20/1/76 - Emily Jackson, 42, found dead. Two big hammer blows again, but this time Pete stabbed her over 50 times with a phillips head screwdriver. Pete must have been pumped up for this one. He stomped her so hard he left a wellington impression on her right thigh.
9/5/76 - Another failure; Marcella Claxton survives.
5/2/77 - Irene Richardson, 28; three hammer blows, neck savaged with a knife. Sound familiar?
23/4/77 - Patricia Atkinson, 32; four hammer blows this time, then seven stab wounds to the stomach before a big slash up her side. They found a size seven wellington boot print on the floor, the same as the one on Emily Jackson's corpse.
26/6/77 - Jayne McDonald, 16; Pete changed his M.O. for this one as she wasn't a whore, just a school girl. Well Pete smacked the back of her head in then stabbed in both the back and the chest. She was discovered by little kiddies on there way to an adventure playground.
10/7/77 - Maureen Long survives a rather vicious attack. Pete must have had an off night
1/10/77 - Jean Jordan; One very pissed off ripper smashed her skull with eleven hammer blows. Unfortunately for Pete he had to leave the body in a hurry because a car drove by.
9/10/77 - Sutcliffe remembers that Jordon had a five pound note that he gave her so he goes back to the body. When he couldn't find her handbag he got pissed off and hacked at her body with broken glass, attempting to take the head off. Eventually he gave up and just gave the corpse a 'ruddy good kicking.' She was discovered the next day and her head was unrecognisable.
2/11/77 - Sutcliffe interviewed for the first time by police.
8/11/77 - 2nd Police interview
14/12/77 - Marilyn Loore survives.
21/1/78 - Yvonne Pearson, 22; The first to feel Sutcliffe's new 'Club' hammer. Pete then jumped up and down on her chest repeatedly until her ribs were all cracked. The body went undiscovered two months, during which time Pete came back repeatedly attempting to make it stick out more, even placing a newspaper under her arm.
31/1/78 - Helen Rytka, 18; His least favoured victim. Always attempting to make her sound like a good girl. Bullshit. She was a whore. Anyway, Pete actually had sex with this one, and as she went to leave the car, BANG, right on the back of the head, he followed this up with five more, just to be sure. She was stabbed three times in the chest, then rather violently mutilated, somehow managing to keep stabbing her in the same spots.
16/5/78 - Vera Millward, 41; three hammer blows, followed with a huge slash across the stomach. Pete had actually put a piece of paper over her head as it was in a bit of messy state.
13/8/78 - 3rd police interview
23/8/78 - 4th police interview. Must have some effect as Sutcliffe stops for 8 months.
4/4/79 - Josephine Whitaker, 19; Skull smashed in with a hammer. The second respectable girl victim.
29/7/79 - 5th police interview
2/9/79 - Barbera Leach, 20; Another respectable one. This time Pete got her in the street, smashing her skull in. He then dragged her into a backyard, where he stabbed her eight times. He then chucked her in the bin, covering her with an old carpet.
23/10/79 - 6th police interview.
13/1/80 - 7th police interview.
20/1/80 - 8th police interview.
2/2/80 - 9th police interview.
18/8/80 - Marguerite Walls, 47; Another respectable one. Head bludgeoned, then strangled. Not officially counted as a 'Ripper victim'.
24/9/80 - Dr. Upadhya Bandara survives
5/11/80 - Theresa Sykes survives
17/11/80 - Jaqueline Hill, 20; Another student. This one Pete did just after he'd eaten at KFC. Took her off the street and stabbed her violently, for some reason taking one of her eyes.
2/1/81 - Sutcliffe gets done while about to add another one, Olivia Reivers.
4/1/81 - Pete cracks under pressure and admits to the lot.
22/5/81 - Found guilty of 13 murders. Gets life.

And there you have it Elitest.....

Eyes of the Night
02-04-2004, 07:15 AM
Good god y'all ... I'm on fire!!!


Junyore Grades
02-04-2004, 08:05 AM
Mind if I claim your smoldering corpse?

Eyes of the Night
02-04-2004, 08:10 AM
Only if you become my next drummer dogg!:D

Drunk edit ...

Junyore Grades
02-04-2004, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by Eyes
Only if you become my next drummer dogg!:D
Drunk edit ...
Hmmmm? Bludgeoned to death by drumstick?? It could work!

Mr Walker
02-04-2004, 02:21 PM
This is an awesome thread.
Well done.
I'm very impressed!!!
Thanks Igo!

Mr Walker
02-04-2004, 02:40 PM
Do you have anything on any gruesome female serial killers?

02-04-2004, 06:12 PM
btw Igo Peter Sutcliffe was actually caught here in my home town.....and the police interviewed him 9 times and still didnt realise it was him....

02-04-2004, 06:26 PM
Thanks Mr Walker, But like I said at the begining of the thread I'm just going around to about five different sites stealing this stuff. Changing it around a little, but Its not me doing all the work, thats for sure. But dont we LOVE requests here at the DLR Army serial killer thread.. Yes sir, There seems to be a deranged personality for everyone....Like they said in Blazing saddles "We're all equal here at the hanging house".......

Sooooooooooo, let me introduce one of Astrailas best kept secrets...And maybe a distant relative of Panamarks.......

Martha Rendall

BORN : ??

DIED : October 6, 1909


This was one twisted bitch. Many have argued, and rightly so, that she is the most sadistic child killer in Australian history. After you've read this story I think you will agree.

In 1906 Martha was living with Thomas Morris, a carpenter, and his five kids. I'm not sure if she was a 'nanny' or Mr. Morris's girlfriend, but either way she wasn't too friendly toward the children. Many of their neighbors noticed that since Martha had moved in to the house the children had become much thinner, and many had also witnessed the violent thrashings that she subjected the kids to when they 'acted up'. But since most believed it was none of their business nothing was said against Martha Rendall.

In 1907 the children's condition became a little worse. Since they were no longer given a healthy amount of food, they became ill quite easily. One particular complaint was a sore throat. A doctor prescribed 'throat swabs' for two of Mr. Morris's daughters. It would seem that a 'throat swab' is particularly painful as the neighbors reported some rather horrible screams coming from the Morris household.

On July 28, 1907, one of the girls, Anne Morris, died. It was officially listed as being due to diphtheria. It seems that the 'throat swaps' did not do it's job.

Three months later Olive Morris, another daughter, also died. Once again a doctor pronounced the cause of death as diphtheria. Again, poor Martha's work was in vain as she could not save the child.

One year later Arthur Morris, the deceased girls 14 year old brother, joined them. He had been complaining of a sore throat so Martha decided that he need a 'throat swab' to cure this problem (just as it had with his sisters). Those 'throat swabs' must have been bloody painful because he soon stopped complaining about the sore throat and started on about the swabs. From all accounts Martha took great satisfaction from giving the swabs, so much so that she was always ready to give another. But she wouldn't be able to keep giving young Arthur them as he died on October 6, 1908.

Not surprisingly the family doctor had become a little suspicious about the demise of the Morris family (ya think?) and ordered an autopsy on young Arthur. Nothing was found out of the ordinary, so death was attributed to that pesky disease, diphtheria.

The next Morris kiddy to fall ill to the dreaded sore throat was George Morris. But having watched his siblings all suffer at the hands of Martha Rendall, or "Mother" as he was supposed to call her, he ran away from home. A right good decision one would think. So police started to look for the young run away. During their investigation they spoke to neighbors of the Morris family, many of whom were ready to talk.

It seems as though there were one of two interesting tales told to police during these chats with the neighbors. Enough for police to suspect that maybe the three deaths were a little more than suspicious.

The bodies were exhumed and intensely checked over. The findings were very interesting.

The children had not had their throats swabbed with any kind of medicine prescribed from a doctor, they had actually been swabbed with hydrochloric acid. I'm guessing that most of you know what that means, but for those that don't, well it's pretty hard to see how there could be any other reason that the kids died. It could also be the reason the friggin' throat swabs hurt so much.

It came out that Martha had been lacing the children's drinks with the acid. This caused the sore throat. Once the kids complained of the sore throat she would pour more acid down their throats, and performed the now well known 'throat swabs' with more acid. She was able to continue killing as the mucous membrane of the throat tends to swell with acid, just as it does with diphtheria.

Police charged both Martha and Thomas Morris with the murders of the three Morris children, but at the court case Thomas Morris was cleared of all wrong doing. Martha Rendall wasn't so lucky. She was found guilty and sentenced to death.

On October 6, 1909, Martha Rendall became the last woman to be hung in Western Australia.

And another serial killer quote of the week....

"I really screwed up this time."

Stay tuned kids, Lots more to come......

02-05-2004, 07:08 PM



Pretty good thread. Keep it rollin' dude.

02-05-2004, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by Igosplut
Your not thanked...

I'd rather it die on its own than have you think that the only reason its still here is you..

Run along now, and stop being such an attention whore.

Eat my ass, and enjoy it.


02-06-2004, 02:48 AM
Originally posted by DLR7884
Eat my ass, and enjoy it.



02-06-2004, 07:24 AM
He wasn't talkin' to you...


02-06-2004, 01:22 PM
I know sweetie

Im not stoopid

I was being droll

02-06-2004, 01:26 PM


02-07-2004, 12:02 PM
Got any requests flap old boy??? Well I think I can dig you up one, Let me see.........

Ahhh maybe this'll do it........


"My aim was pretty good."
Spisak states the obvious.




Frank Spisak's neighbours knew him as 'Frankie Ann Spisak.' He was a frizzy-haired transvestite who was looking forward to having a sex-change operation. They didn't know about Spisak's other side, a side that eventually took over his personality. Spisak eventually decided he no longer wanted to be a woman, but instead he wanted to be Hitler. He stopped wearing frocks and make-up, and changed to silly suits, slicked back hair and a toothbrush moustache. I'm not sure which gathered the most amount of laughs, but either way Spisak was serious about this new style.
In February 1982, Spisak launched his first "seek and destroy mission" in which he was attempting to "clean up the city". He walked onto the Cleveland State University and shot a black minister, Rev. Horace Rickerson, in a men's room. The Reverend died.
Four months later he shot another black, John Hardaway, 55, only wounding this one.
During August Spisak struck three times. The first was Timothy Sheehan, 50, also at Cleveland State University. Sheehan was caucasian but Spisak suspected that he may have been Jewish. He then gunned down 17-year-old Brian Warford, another black, at a bus stop near the campus. His next attack failed, narrowly missing another CSU employee.
Spisak was arrested in September for firing his gun out of his apartment window, but was released on bail. Police then received an anonymous phone call telling them to check the gun, a .22-caliber pistol. The gun was linked to the Warford murder and Spisak admitted to the others.
At the trial Spisak pled insanity, saying that the one-man war was launched under direct orders from God, his "immediate superior." He also blamed his transvestite period on the Jews saying that they "seized control of my mind when I wasn't looking". No one fell for this crap and Spisak was sentenced to death on August 10, 1983.

"Even though this court may pronounce me guilty a thousand times, the higher court of our great Aryan warrior God pronounces me innocent.
Heil Hitler!"
Or so Spisak thought after the trial.

After Spisak was sentenced to death the Social Nationalist Aryan Peoples Party stepped forward to claim him as a dues-paying lieutenant. The party's leader, ex-con Keith Gilbert, announced that Spisak was "acting under direct orders of the party" when he murdered the three victims in Cleveland. The orders, according to Gilbert: "Kill all blacks until the last one is dead."

Ya meet the nicest people in prison........

And the quote of the week.....

"We serial killers are your sons, we are your husbands, we are everywhere.
And there will be more of your children dead tomorrow"

Mr Walker
02-07-2004, 05:56 PM
Thanks for filling my request Professor Igo.

Have you ever wondered which serial killer you are? (http://www.thisisacryforhelp.com/quiz/killers/quiz2.html)

Here I am...


High Life Man
02-09-2004, 04:23 PM
Don't post in red...it's too hard to read!

How about some info on H.H. Holmes...this guy will be very famous soon as they're making a movie about him. The famous Chicago World's Fair serial killer.

Read "Devil in the White City," recently released in paperback. Very interesting.

02-09-2004, 04:51 PM
send it me then!!

02-09-2004, 07:34 PM
Yea HLM, I did notice that the red was hard on the eyes..... We'll just have ta change that around. Cant have your eyes botherin ya reading about all this blood and gore now can we??

Another request, happy to oblige, we'll be gettin right on it. Maybe tonight, maybe tomorrow, I gotta go do some grave robbing as it were!!.....

02-09-2004, 07:34 PM
Did you ever notice that if you double post the delete option doesnt work??

Somebody should look into that.....

02-09-2004, 08:18 PM
Originally posted by flappo


Flappo, you're cordially invited to fuck yourself.

Don't have too much fun though, ya sick fuck ya.

02-09-2004, 08:26 PM
Here ya go, The one and only H H Holmes.... I've read about this guy before......

The Man

In the summer of 1886, evil stepped into the Englewood community. A growing suburb of Chicago, Englewood flourished with business opportunities due to its proximity to the railroads.

Mrs. Holton, wife of the local druggist, moved her overweight 63-year-old body up and down the counter filling orders. Hot and tired, her dress rustled from too much starch every time she moved, bent or stretched to reach a bottle of tonic. Her gray hair, matted and limp fell across her flushed face. Her customer Mrs. McNamara had flashing red hair and good teeth. "Itís my boy, Johnny. Heís feeling poorly, complains of a bellyache. Would you have something?" she asked.

"Be with you in a second, ma'am", said Mrs. Holton. Busy, her back turned; she checked the shelves for a stomach cure, unaware of a person entering the store. Mrs. Holton wrapped up a mixture in a small paper envelope and handed her the order. Every now and then sheíd stop and look up toward the ceiling. Closing her eyes with every moan from her sick husband, his pain became part of her. The pain from the prostate cancer worsened every day. Even the morphine would not hold the pain at bay.

Although not a doctor, Mrs. Holton tried to fill the prescriptions she knew well enough, otherwise, she would run upstairs and ask her husband for help.

Turning, she saw a young man, handsome and fashionably dressed, standing near the door looking over the store. Gold cufflinks adorned his starched white cuffs. His vested suit tailored to fit his small frame gave him an air of elegance and grace. Immediately, he took off his derby and nodded when Mrs. Holton noticed him. She nodded back. "May I help you?" She asked.

"I am here concerning the position of pharmacist you posted in the daily newspaper. Iím Dr. Holmes."

"My husband is very ill.... he is no longer able to function as a pharmacist", her voice trailed off as a customer entered the store, pale and in pain. He held his left side, then, handed the prescription to her. Mrs. Holton read it and started to go toward the stairs to ask her husband for help. Hesitating, she turned, and gave the prescription to Dr. Holmes. He laid his walking stick against a shelf, stepped behind the counter, quickly taking bottles moving up and down, gathering the materials, grinding powders with the mortar and pestle, nimbly shifting the powder in a small envelope completing the order.

Impressed, Mrs. Holton hired him on the spot never checking his credentials, never knowing how he mixed a prescription poisoning a woman in Philadelphia several months before.

Herman W. Mudgett - aka H.H. Holmes
(Illinois State Historical Library)
Within a short time, the suave, handsome Henry H. Holmes increased business in the drugstore. He had a way with the ladies that made them come back too often. This delighted Mrs. Holton, who could spend more time with her dying husband. Holmes took over the books. He understood the lucrative business of selling medicine.

When Mrs. Holtonís husband died, Holmes saw the opportunity to approach the old woman. "You need to rest...retire from this business", said Holmes.

"Yes...but the store...there is so much to do...I canít abandon it." Always tidy, Mrs. Holton busied herself dusting the shelves.

"Madame, I can buy the business and pay you every month.... You would have an income for life without all the work and worry", Holmes said.

"I could never leave the rooms, I feel Mr. Holton is still in them...no, Mr. Holmes I canít sell."

"My dear woman", he took her hand and put the duster on the counter. "I never want you to leave your rooms. My interest is in the business."

"I can stay, and you will pay me money?" She smiled and nodded her head. "Yes, Mr. Holmes you can buy my business." She shook his hand, pleased at the great deal she made. Unfortunately it was her last deal.

When Holmes failed to pay Mrs. Holton the agreed-upon payments, she took him to court. Before the case closed, she disappeared. Customers asked about her whereabouts but Holmes told them she moved to California, too distraught after the death of her husband to live in his rooms. No one knew where she went and her body was never found.

The Castle

Shortly after Mrs. Holton's disappearance, Holmes married Myrta Z. Belnap, a young, pretty woman with an innocent face framed by blond curls. Her sweet brown eyes and shy manners contrasted with Holmes' self-assured flirtatious charm. Myrta's devoted demeanor soon changed as she worked side by side with Holmes. His romantic interest in other women made Myrta angry. Yet this shy woman protested meekly to Holmes. People noticed that after a year of putting up with her husband's behavior, Myrta's gentle protest became angry outbursts in front of customers. Divorce was not possible because she had become pregnant. Holmes made an effort to divorce himself from his first wife Clara A. Lovering Mudgett of Alton, New Hampshire. Mudgett was his real name and Holmes one of his many aliases. Finally, Holmes sent Myrta to his parents. Now rid of a nosy wife, Holmes had an open field to pursue his needs.

Benjamin Pitezel (Mildred Kerr)

Benjamin Pitezel, of Galva, Illinois married Carrie Canning after impregnating her at eighteen. Handsome, over six feet tall, with big shoulders and muscular arms, Benjamin cut a good-looking figure in those days. His face was fine featured with light blue eyes, dignified angular nose, black hair and a neatly trimmed mustache. A large warty growth on the back of his neck was his only physical flaw. His other flaw was a weakness in character. An early marriage, five children and a slew of jobs that dragged his family from town to town and a particular affection for liquor would change the handsome young man.

Benjamin worked as a janitor, lumber mill worker, railroad worker, circus roustabout and had done several stints in jail for petty crimes. No one knew when Benjamin met Holmes. Their symbiotic relationship began in November 1889. Benjamin bound himself to Holmes like a parasite. He fed off Holmes' bigger than life persona, gave himself up to his bidding without question and in the process lost his soul.

At 63rd and Wallace, Holmes began the construction of his castle. The 50-foot x 162-foot corner lot took on a mystery of its own. When the workers started to ask questions, they were replaced, usually within a week or two. In fact, by the end of the construction over 500 carpenters, laborers, and other craftsmen had been employed. An amazing fact considering the building was only three stories.

Holmes took advantage of the workers. After they worked a week or two, he had accused them of inferior work, fired them, and did not pay a penny in wages. If they sued, he would ask for one continuance after another until out of frustration, the worker gave up.

Holmes had installed an enormous walk-in safe in his office but stalled in paying. When the safe company sent over a couple of workers to remove the safe, Holmes threatened to sue. He built a room around the safe and warned them that they would pay for any damage. His tactic worked, the safe stayed.

Not only did Holmes cheat the workers out of their wages, but also he kept them in the dark about the building's design. He did not want anyone to question the enormous kiln with its cast iron door, or the vats of corrosives like quicklime and acid, or iron-plated rooms, secret passages, hidden chutes that ended in the basement directly above zinc-lined tanks, sealed rooms with gas-jets, stairways that led nowhere, and a secret room only Holmes could enter. Fifty-one doors and corridors snaked around like some mad house, trapdoors, closets with secret passages, dissecting table, surgeons' tools and even an invention Holmes said could stretch a human to twice their height. Truly, the modern looking building was a Castle of Horrors inside.

The Seducer

A year later, the castle was finished. Holmes sold the drugstore and opened another in the castle. The new drugstore captured the whole community's attention with its elegant design; roman columns, gold-lettered signs, polished wood paneling, frescoes, and arched ceilings. Next to the drug store he had a jewelry shop, restaurant, and barbershop. An astute businessman, Holmes invested in one of the first copier companies and even manufactured glycerin soap. In 1890, Holmes was 30 years old. His empire grew at a tremendous rate and he put an ad in the newspaper for more help.

Ned Conner had the same lifestyle as Benjamin, foundering from job to job, dragging his wife and daughter along. When he answered the ad for manager and got the job, Ned thought all his problems ended. He had married Julia Smythe, a 6-foot-tall, green-eyed woman with reddish brown hair piled in curls on her head. Holmes noticed her talent for detail and quickly fired his cashier, giving the position to Julia.

Thrilled about her good fortune, Julia invited her sister Gertie to Chicago. Gertie, all of 18, with a captivating innocence that caught Holmes at his first meeting, was flattered by the older man's attention. He wined and dined the young woman, showing her all the exciting sights of the big city. However, when Holmes professed love for her and told her he would divorce his wife, she was appalled. Rebuking his offer, she immediately confessed to her brother-in-law Ned. Ned helped her high tail it out of the city back to the small town of Muscatine.

Rejected by Gertie, Holmes turned his attention to Julia. In a short time, it was noticeable to the people around them that the two had become lovers. Ned seemed to turn a blind eye to his wife's infidelity and took comfort in the fact that he was working a good job and had a place to stay, after a stream of failures. One day everything changed when several friends cornered Ned to let him know about his wife's behavior. In a saloon down the street from the castle, Ned slugged back a few after work. This day, some of his bar buddies decided to let him know what everyone else knew.

"My wife saw them kissing from the window. They didn't even close the door to the back room," Ned said to his friend.

"Why I saw him touching her bottom as she stood to get some them there liver pills I use," said another man.

"Last week when you were downtown, he closed the shop. I saw both of them get into a cab."

By the time Ned heard everything, he was pretty liquored up. Slamming down his drink, sending the whiskey splashing all over the bar, he stormed out.

Julia opened the door to her room, reached to light the gas lamp on the wall. She wore a navy blue dress that curved around her body ending in a bustle. Her jacket, trimmed in red piping gave her a smart professional look; it matched her navy and red hat. Turning around, she was startled to see Ned sitting in the chair near the window. A cloud of smoke obscured his face. Julia walked over to the bed and removed her hatpins placing them on the night table.

"Had a talk with some people today", he said.

"Oh", said Julia, who began unbuttoning her jacket, "about what?" She walked to the closet and hung her jacket.

"About my dear, sweet, beautiful wife", he spit out as he put down his pipe, and walked to the bed, "being bedded by my employer!"

"I don't believe I like your tone, Ned ... people gossip, ignore them."

"No one had to tell me what I already suspected ... I wanted to believe it was just innocent flirting ... Holmes is a destroyer of marriage ... he wanted to divorce his wife for your sister ... you were just second best."

She whipped around the bed and faced Ned. "He loves me...he's handsome, successful, intelligent caring...everything you aren't. You couldn't shine his shoes, Ned Conner."

"I forbid you to see him again ... you will quit the job and be my wife. You don't have to work. Never see Holmes again."

"I will not quit my job. I will not stop seeing Holmes."

The fighting went on for hours and resulted in Ned packing and sleeping on the floor of the barbershop downstairs.

Julia continued her affair with Holmes and inevitably became pregnant. By that time, Ned had moved out of the castle, filed for divorce, and was about to marry another woman.

Julia had entrenched herself into Holmes' business so deeply she had become a threat. He convinced her she was the love of his life and wanted to marry her only if she had an abortion. When she thought of her daughter, Pearl, she could not bring herself to do it. Holmes persisted and assured Julia he had performed many such procedures during his time as a medical student. Julia kept putting it off. Finally, on December 24, 1891, Julia agreed to an abortion. Too upset to put Pearl to bed, she asked Holmes to do it. Afterwards, he led her down to the dark basement and makeshift operating room. Gripping his arm and sobbing she had no idea she would never see another Christmas again, and neither did Pearl.

Hell of a guy Huh??

02-09-2004, 08:42 PM
The Medical Skeleton Business

Charles M. Chappell worked for Holmes doing a variety of jobs around the castle for about two years. His previous job was in the same building that housed the Bennett Medical School. Curious by nature, and good with his hands, Chappell picked up a rather unusual skill -- articulating skeletons. He first observed the procedure and, after a short time, he actually did the work. In the winter of 1892, a few months after the disappearance of Julia, Holmes summoned Chappell to his office.

"Charles, would you like to pick up some extra money?" asked Holmes.

Charles stood in front of his desk and smiled. "Of course, Mr. Holmes."

"I would like to use your special skills...to articulate a skeleton."

He led Chappell to a second floor room with poor lighting. On a table, a cadaver of a female lay. Chappell told authorities that the body looked like a jackrabbit that has been skinned by splitting the skin down the face and rolling it back off the entire body. He also said, considerable flesh had been taken off. Chappell thought Holmes was doing an autopsy on one of his patients. After stripping the flesh off and articulating the bones the body was prepared. Chappell was paid $36 for his work.

The skeleton was sold to Hahnemann Medical College for $200. Dr. Pauling, a surgeon, had the skeleton placed in his private offices in his home. Looking at the skeleton, he often wondered what had taken her life, consumption, childbirth, a bad heart? Fascinated with the skeleton he often would show visitors his unusual female skeleton that was over six feet tall.


Emeline Cigrand was a stenographer in her hometown of LaFayette, Indiana at the County Recorder Office. In July 1891, she began working in Dwight, Illinois, home of a sanitarium for alcoholics. Dr. Keeley, the director, had discovered a treatment for alcoholism by giving injections of bichloride of gold, a mixture of gold salts and vegetables. (fuckin imagine that!)

Emeline's stunning beauty caught the eye of Benjamin Pitezel, a patient in for "the Cure." Tall, blond, with piercing blue eyes and a captivating smile, she fascinated Pitezel. Emeline enjoyed conversations with Pitezel about his job and his interesting, wealthy employer, Dr. Holmes.

Intrigued with Pitezel's description, Holmes wrote Emeline, enticing her with a job paying over 50% more than the sanitarium. She accepted the job working for Holmes and lived in a boarding house one block from the Castle.

Holmes began his seduction: sightseeing, flowers, dinner, jewelry and compliments. By summer they were lovers and Emeline had written back home about her fiancť, Robert E. Phelps, an alias Holmes told her to use so as not to jeopardize his eminent divorce from Myrta. Emeline wrote her sister Philomena, that they might be moving to England to share an estate with her beloved's father, an English lord.

In the fall, Emeline's relatives arrived. Holmes, conveniently busy, did not meet with them. One of them pointed out the poor workmanship of the building and the inferior quality lumber that was used. But Emeline did not want to hear any disparaging remarks about her perfect love, so she ignored the suggestions that Holmes was not what he appeared to be.

Holmes planned the wedding for December -- a civil ceremony with just his witness. "Simple, quick and then a long trip abroad, so I may spend all my time with you, only you", Holmes said.

"It will be beautiful no matter where we wed because I'll be with you", Emeline said. Her eyes traced his face; Holmes pulled back from their embrace, reached in his inner pocket and presented her with 12 envelopes.

"Address these my dear, with your beautiful handwriting to all the family and friends back home.... I have ordered printed announcements of our wedding etched in gold."

Holmes planned to kill her, not for money, but for lust. Only in a dead state could he achieve the ultimate sexual thrill. In early December, probably a few days before the wedding, Holmes summoned Emeline. He sat at his desk, papers stacked, looking busy. "My dear, can you fetch me the white envelope in the vault marked property deeds?"

"Of course," Emeline said. She unspun the lock and stepped into the vault. Standing on her tiptoes, she slid her hand back and forth along the shelf as she looked for the envelope. The light from the other room dimmed. She did not hear Holmes walk up to the vault door. She did not notice the door slowly begin to close until darkness surrounded her. Then, Emeline froze, as the vault door shuddered close, the lock spun, and the room became her tomb.

Holmes stood near the vault excited at what he had done. He pressed his cheek against the metal, feeling the coolness and the tiny thumps on the door as Emeline pounded for her life. Emeline's screams were deep and guttural. Holmes felt their vibration against his groin as he pressed against the door. Aroused, by the power of life and death, he exposed himself and masturbated as he listened to Emeline's screams. His eyes glazed in ecstasy as he chewed on his lower lip and jerked vigorously to his ultimate climax.

Holmes went back to work, occasionally listening to Emeline's screams, which according to Holmes, "continued for hours."

Several weeks after the incident, the LaSalle Medical School bought a skeleton from Dr. H.H. Holmes -- a young female.

Shit, this is a long one!!

Female Troubles

One of the requirements of employment with Holmes was a life insurance policy for $5000 naming Holmes as beneficiary. This was money in the bank in case his other swindles slacked off.

When Jennie Thompson, 17, blond, blue eyed, small-town girl from Eldorado, Illinois came to work in the Castle, Holmes saw another opportunity. Jennie confided in Holmes that she had not written her family. Originally, she told the family she was going to New York to live. They had no idea she landed such a good job in Chicago. Again, he used the vault trick. Jennie suffocated in the vault; her body was stripped of flesh, skeletonized and sold to University of Illinois Medical School.

Another victim, Mrs. Pansy Lee, a widow from New Orleans, took a room in the Castle. Holmes used his usual charm after learning Pansy had $4000 in a false bottom of her trunk. He asked her to let him put it into his vault for safekeeping. Pansy refused, insisting she could take care of the money as she had done travelling all over the United States. Holmes killed her and cremated her body in his custom built oven.

Holmes' ever-faithful dog, Pat Quinlan, got a girl that worked at the Castle in trouble. His wife lived in Ohio, but she planned on joining her husband at the Castle sometime in the future. Heated arguments with his mistress made Quinlan confide in Holmes about his problem.

"Can ya deliver the baby, Dr. Holmes? I need to keep this quiet so the missus don't find out", said Quinlan. His eyes were tired; his thin nose flared, lifting his moustache with each heavy breath. Quinlan's agitation grew as Holmes stroked his chin, and stared at the distraught man before him.

"I'll do anything I can", said Holmes, smiling and patting him on his back.

Shortly after Holmes offered to help, Pat again found himself in a state of panic. Clutching a telegram, Pat paced back and forth in front of his boss's desk. Handing Holmes the telegram, he stepped back, hands in his pockets, waiting for the response.

"There's something else, sir besides my missus coming today...the girl knows and threatened to tell my wife."

"You know what must be done, Pat?" Pat hung his head and said, "Yes."

Quinlan unable to look Holmes in the eye cleared his throat. "One more problem...the girl told her sister."

"That makes one for each of us to take care of...doesn't it, Pat?"

Quinlan looked up. "I can't possibly..." Holmes' icy stare made Quinlan's words dissolve in fear. "I mean whatever ya say, Mr. Holmes."

That day, Quinlan brought the two women to a small room in a remote part of the building, explaining to his mistress and her sister that the room would be better for the baby so the child's crying would not disturb the other tenants. He left the two women and met Holmes in the basement. The two men turned on the various gas jets to the room. Within a few minutes the two sisters were dead. Their bodies disposed of in the usual manner.

In the early 1890's, Chicago became the site of a kind of world's fair, celebrating the four hundred year anniversary of Columbus's voyage to America. Holmes's castle was a perfect place to lure tourists, steal their money and murder them. There were gas jets in the rooms to asphyxiate the victims and the kilns below to cremate the bodies. Fifty tourists who visited the Columbian Exposition and took rooms in the Castle never returned home. Many of those who met their doom in the "Castle of Horrors" were young women.

In the midst of his murderous pursuits as a hotelkeeper, Holmes fell in love with a young woman named Georgiana Yoke. To keep her interest, Holmes told Georgiana lies upon lies. First, he told her both his parents were dead as well as his brothers and sisters. His only family left was a bachelor uncle, Henry Mansfield Howard, telling her this to justify the reason he sometimes used two names H.H. Holmes or H. Howard -- his adopted name as opposed to his birth name.

When he asked her to marry him, she accepted him and his two names. Little did she know he was considered married to Myrta, who continued to live in Wilmette with their child Lucy. Technically, he was married to his first wife, Clara Lovering, who lived in Tilton, New Hamphsire where Holmes' parents lived.

Holmes and Georgiana decided to wed in the winter of 1893, but the stress of his murderous and larcenous past began to take its toll. Creditors caught up to Holmes, threatening to take the Castle.

Harold Schechter in Depraved says of Holmes: "Deception was so deeply ingrained in H.H. Holmes's character that he was incapable of telling the truth about the simplest matter. Nothing he said could be trusted or taken at face value. Ironically, Holmes possessed the sort of boldness, savvy and boundless ambition that might well have earned him the financial success he so frantically craved. His colossal energies (when they weren't being misspent on his countless frauds, scams, and far more sinister pursuits) were devoted to outwitting his creditors."

Holmes, always several jumps ahead, planned a quick retreat with Georgiana. A few weeks after Georgiana accepted Holmes' proposal, Pat Quinlan set the Castle on fire. The fire destroyed the top floor. As usual, he had insured the building with several companies for a total of $25,000. An astute investigator noted the fire started in several places. After investigating Holmes, his report that Holmes tried to defraud the insurance companies did not pan out. Holmes was not charged and was free to go. However, he did not collect the insurance.

More tomorrow kids, stay tuned!!

High Life Man
02-10-2004, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by Elitest
send it me then!!

I borrowed the book. It's available in paperback now.

Maybe someone could deliver you two...umm...packages next week! ;)

High Life Man
02-11-2004, 01:00 PM
From today's headlines...

This is
11/02/04 - News and city section

12 victims of 'Ripley' killer?
By Finian Davern, Evening Standard

Fears are growing that a serial killer has murdered 12 men, hidden their bodies and assumed their identities, police have revealed.

Detectives believe the killer followed the pattern of The Talented Mr Ripley, the character portrayed on film by Matt Damon, who murdered a friend and took over his victim's wealth and his life.

A major search has been launched for 11 missing men after blood was found at the home of a retired librarian.

The 63-year-old is believed to have been dismembered and dumped elsewhere. Then, it is alleged, the killer assumed his identity to plunder more than £30,000 from his investments.

The librarian's name was found with 11 others on a list at the suspect's home. All 11 have been reported missing and senior police sources say they have "grave concerns" for them.

More than 100 officers are working on the case and forensics experts are at two homes 200 miles apart. One, in eastern England, belongs to the librarian. The second is the 49-year-old suspect's flat. Neither can be identified for legal reasons.

The librarian had been reported missing and police last week found blood in a number of rooms in his house.

They checked his finances and found that a £12,000 life insurance policy and £20,000 of premium bonds has recently been cashed in. His bank cards had also been used.

Police tracked down a suspect and have sealed off his home. He lives in a council flat but is not its main tenant. Detectives also searched a nearby lock-up.

Neighbours of the suspect said he had lived there for five months and had told them he was looking after the flat for a friend. One resident, who did not want to be named, said she heard a "blood-curdling" yell from the flat last Friday.

"There was a commotion and I heard a scream. It sounded like a man's scream."

She said the suspect often travelled in his van and was often seen "carrying holdalls which looked to be full of bulky items".

The known murder victim, who was single, had lived alone near London before moving to eastern England 18 months ago. A former neighbour said: "He was the type of person not to hurt a fly. He was a very shy person. I can't imagine him ever getting into an argument."


02-11-2004, 09:18 PM
VERY GOOD High Life Man....Your gettin in to the spirit of the thing!!

Sick fuckin world we live in innit??

On that note the completion of our story............

Insurance Scam

The biggest scheme brewed in Holmes' mind long before the Castle swindles fizzled and proved to be his downfall. He convinced Ben Pitezel to take a $10,000 life insurance policy with Fidelity Mutual Life of Philadelphia and fake his own death. A corpse with a badly disfigured face would be Ben's double. Holmes assured Ben he would find a corpse to match his physical characteristics. "With my connections the corpse will be no trouble", he told Ben.

The plan was for Ben to go into hiding and not tell his family anything. Ben could not just disappear without saying something to his wife Carrie, so he went against Holmes' instructions. He told her about the scheme. Carrie, distraught that something could go wrong, begged her husband to reconsider. He did not. He told his older daughter Nessie not to believe anything she read in the newspaper about him. Ben Pitezel left Chicago and never returned.

Meanwhile, Holmes' creditors got wind of the arson at the Castle. They banded together, got an attorney, and threatened Holmes with criminal charges. November 22, according to witnesses, was the last time anyone saw Holmes in public, although, he did make a few clandestine visits to his wife and daughter.

On January 9, 1894 Homes married Georgiana Yoke in Denver. She became Mrs. Henry Mansfield Howard. From Denver, they moved to Ft. Worth, Texas and met Ben. Holmes told his new wife he had business to take care of in Ft. Worth. Again he changed his identity. The couple became Mr. and Mrs. H.M.Pratt. He, as Pratt, along with his assistant Ben formulated schemes to bilk wealthy Texas businessmen from money, property and business.

His psychopathic arrogance made him reckless in decisions. Instead of skipping town like any other embezzler, Holmes stayed in Ft. Worth. They stole a freight of horses and shipped them to Chicago. Texans did not take horse theft lightly. The crime was found out and the law latched onto their trail.

They worked their way across the country to New York, Philadelphia, Memphis, Denver, and St. Louis. Continued carelessness and greed landed Holmes in jail for the first time. He tried to defraud the Merrill Drug Company using a scam like the one in Chicago. The drug company found out and had him arrested. Georgiana, bemoaning the indignity of his husband's arrest, eventually bailed him out.

Marion Hedgepeth (UPI)

During his stay in jail, Holmes met Marion Hedgepeth, a very bad man, according to the Pinkerton Detective Agency. Marion was a celebrity criminal. Perhaps that was why Holmes felt comfortable. Comfortable enough to let his guard down and reveal his swindle. Marion gave Holmes the name of a lawyer, for a promise of $500. The lawyer would help him in the insurance scheme involving Ben. Now everything was in place for the insurance fraud.

Ben went on to Philadelphia, opened a phony patent office, rented the room in the back, and waited for the plan to unfold.

Holmes' stay in prison was short. He met with Jeptha Howe, the lawyer to whom Hedgepeth referred Holmes. Howe would take care of the details of the insurance fraud. Holmes returned to his wife Georgiana and they left for Philadelphia for business. Georgiana had been feeling poorly for a few days and was distressed Holmes could not wait until she felt better. "It's a great opportunity...I'll make $10,000 dollars for you", he said. His wife agreed and off they went on another journey.

Upon arriving in Philadelphia, he set up an appointment, and then cancelled it when he did not like the meeting place. Ben was disappointed. Holmes asked Ben if they could meet at his room. Ben agreed. It was the last agreement Ben would ever make to his trusted employer.

The next night, Holmes watched Ben from the shadows drink himself into oblivion at a local tavern. He followed his drunken friend back to his room, checking his pocket for the tools of his murderous plan and waited for the right moment. When Ben opened his door after several tries, Holmes jumped from the shadows, chloroformed his colleague, gently allowing the body to slip to the floor. Working quickly, he took a vial of chemicals from his pocket, poured it on Ben's face. A small explosion ensued, obliterating Ben's features. He arranged the body so that the face would get the full glare of the sun, thus ensuring quick decomposition. Holmes medical training came in handy once more.

Ben had missed an appointment with one of his potential inventors. The man had come by the shop a few times and felt concern for it was always closed. Finally, he pushed the door of the shop and it opened. He called out for Ben several times. Cautiously, he went toward the back of the store and reached the stairs to the upper rooms. He noticed a foul odor. Up, up he went until he arrived at the top floor. He opened the door slightly, saw a body on the floor, shot down the stairs, and ran four blocks to the police station.

Holmes lost no time at all. He returned to Georgiana at the rented rooms, told her the deal had gone through, and they should make $10,000.

Next morning, they boarded a train for Indianapolis and spent a short time in the city. He checked newspapers to see if Ben's death was discovered. A few days after arriving, he saw the notice. Holmes was delighted his scheme was working. He said good-bye to his wife and headed back to St. Louis.

Carrie Pitezel bordered on hysteria when she read the story about Ben's death in Philadelphia. Her daughter Dessie tried to calm her down by reminding her what her father said -- not to believe what was in the newspapers. Holmes's arrival at that moment could not have been timed better. Finding Carrie in a state of collapse, he pulled her into a private room, and chided her for believing Ben's death notice.

"He's hiding out...you must play along...this is what Ben wants...he is not dead."

After a while, she believed his smooth talking manner and calmed down. Holmes was worried Carrie would crack. Also, she and the baby had been terribly ill for several days. He knew that in this state she might blow the whole scheme. He convinced her to let him take Alice, even though she was only 15 years old. Dessie, the oldest, had to stay to take care of the baby while her mother was ill. Alice would be needed to identify the body in Philadelphia. Meanwhile, Holmes and Alice went to the insurance company. Carrie Pitezel gave the "power of attorney" to Holmes. The problem with the insurance company was that Ben had used a ficticious name. So, they needed a more positive identification.

Days had passed since Ben's death. He was already buried. An order for exhumation was filed to allow the positive identification. Fidelity insurance agents felt something suspicious, but chose not to pursue it at that time. According to the police report, the death was an accident. What alerted the agents had to do with the fact that Ben made his payment two days before he died by wiring it into the office last minute. Alice looked so impoverished and pitiful when she arrived at the office, the agents didn't have the heart to pursue an investigation.

The coroner had laid out the exhumed body of Ben Pitezel, covering his badly disfigured face. Alice frightened and nervous clutched Holmes for moral support. "Any distinguishing marks", asked the coroner of Alice.

"My father had a scar on his knee", Alice said, the coroner pulled back the cover to expose his knees, "and a mole on his neck." Both times she nodded yes. "That's my papa...I can tell by his hands", she cried.

Holmes lifted the covering on Ben's face, "Yes, that is Ben Pitezel, who has worked for me."

When the identification was over, Holmes took Alice to Indianapolis leaving her there while he returned to St. Louis.


Now it was Carrie's turn to finish the scheme. She accompanied Holmes to Jeptha Howe, the lawyer he got from his cellmate Marion Hedgepeth. After the paper work was signed at the insurance company, Holmes told Carrie there would be a lawyer's fee, and money Ben owed him on an investment in Texas. In the end, Carrie walked away with $500 dollars out of Ben's $10,000 insurance policy.

He also convinced Carrie to let him take Howard and Nellie to join Alice in Indianapolis so they could stay at a wealthy lady's home. Carrie returned to Galva, Illinois at her family's home and waited for Ben to contact her.

The insurance company received a letter from Marion Hedgepeth outlining the insurance fraud. Did Holmes merely forget to pay Marion? We'll never know, but it caused his ultimate downfall. Although Marion told the insurance company that Holmes had substituted a cadaver, the agents were convinced it was the real Ben Pitezel. They hired the Pinkerton Detective Agency to investigate. The Pinkertons gathered a great amount of information about Holmes' past schemes from Chicago to Texas. They decided to follow Holmes from city to city as he dragged the three children along in a sojourn that was made to confuse anyone trying to follow him.

Finally, in Boston with the help of 20-year police veteran Frank Geyer, they were able to arrest Holmes. They intercepted a letter with Holmes' code sent to Carrie asking her to remove a bottle of expensive chemicals from the basement to the attic. Unbeknownst to Carrie, the bottle was filled with nitroglycerin. Holmes made arrangements on a steam ship to Europe. The Pinkertons had to move fast. Frank Geyer aided the Pinkertons in surrounding the Adams House, and arrested Holmes for "conspiracy to commit fraud". At the same time, Carrie Pitezel was picked up and brought to Philadelphia for her part in the conspiracy. Little did they know that Holmes was a serial killer.

Overnight Holmes became a notorious celebrity. News of his numerous swindles, horse thefts, and frauds gave people a sense of admiration for the sheer genius of his plots. By the time Carrie had arrived in Philadelphia, she was ready to confess to anything. Believing her husband alive and part of the elaborate scheme, Carrie kept faithful to Holmes' story. She verified that this was fraud not murder concerning her husband. When she had to identify the body of her husband Carrie, she turned on Holmes, screaming about the whereabouts of her children -- Howard, Nellie, and Alice. Holmes claimed the children were with a rich lady in England. Suspicious, Frank Geyer retraced Holmes' journey, traveling from city to city, from East Coast to Midwest, and even Canada. Dauntlessly, he pursed his gut feeling that Holmes had killed the children. Back at headquarters, police gave the real story about Holmes to his young naive wife -- Holmes, as bigamist, as swindler, as killer. Georgiana, realizing the police were telling the truth, cooperated as much as she could.

Alice and Howard Pietzel (Mildred Kerr)

Herman W. Mudgett, alias H. H. Holmes was tried, convicted and sentenced to death. In the end, he thought his facial features had changed to that of a demon. His lawyer asked him how many people he killed. Holmes told him 133. Even in prison, he made money selling his story to William Randolph Hearst Corporation for $10,000.

Herman Webster Mudgett - H.H. Holmes (Illinois State Historical Society)

Fearful of grave robbers, he left explicit instructions for his burial. Ironically, a man did offer a large sum of money for his body. A grave ten feet deep, eight feet long, and five feet wide was dug. In the coffin, Holmes' face was covered with a cloth, and cement poured over every part of his body. Thirteen men dragged the coffin to the grave. The weight of the coffin caused it to fall into the grave upside down. Instead of facing the heavens, he faced hell.

And there we have. I love a happy ending, dont you??
Remember, we love requests here, so keep 'em coming..

And did you think I'd forget the quote of the week??? Not a chance..

"I had gotten out of bed and I was in the kitchen making coffee. Evidently, I had done some cooking the night before. There was some meat on the stove in a frying pan. I think it was human flesh. I had gone to the bathroom and found her in my bathtub, and part of her buttocks was missing. The feet were gone, the hand, the arm. I found them in the refrigerator."

02-12-2004, 03:00 AM
Fred and Rose West
It came out of the blue.

24 February 1994 was a non-descript Thursday afternoon. In the newsroom of the local evening newspaper, the Gloucester Citizen, reporters were sitting around trying to come up with story ideas.

Someone from the paper's circulation department came up to the newsroom to pass on a tit-bit of information.

One of the newspaper boys had reported seeing policemen digging up the back garden of a house in a side street not far from the city centre. The journalists swung into action.

printer friendly version

They discovered that the house in question was number 25 Cromwell Street and looking it up in the electoral register they found the householders recorded as Frederick and Rosemary West.

The names meant nothing.

But someone looked the names up in the paper's conscientiously well-kept cuttings library. In a small brown envelope a reporter found a single cutting from a copy of the Citizen dated the previous summer.

It referred to the delight of a Gloucester couple - Frederick and Rosemary West - who had been cleared of sexually assaulting a young girl after the key witness declined to give evidence. Alarm bells rang in the Citizen newsroom.

Asked why they were digging up the Wests' garden, Gloucestershire Police would only say they were investigating the disappearance of their 16-year-old daughter. A Citizen reporter dashed to the city's register office and found a birth certificate belonging to a Heather West, born in 1971.


Gloucestershire Police confirmed the name but at the time nobody - including the police - realised the dig would trigger one of the biggest police inquiries Britain had ever seen. Heather had disappeared in May 1987, shortly after leaving school, but had not been reported missing by her parents. They claimed she had left home to go and work at a holiday camp in Devon. But an in-joke began to develop among the West children. They would mutter about Heather being "buried under the patio" at 25 Cromwell Street.

In the summer of 1993 - when the allegations of sexual impropriety were made against the Wests - their six youngest children were taken into council care.

Under the patio?
Reports of Heather being "under the patio" reached the ears of Detective Constable Hazel Savage, a veteran Gloucester police officer who had dealings with Fred West going back to the late 1960s. She decided to follow it up.

Det Con Savage discovered that Heather's national insurance number had never been used - indicating that she had never worked or claimed benefit since her disappearance. She had simply vanished into thin air.

Other inquiries strengthened Det Con Savage's belief that foul play was involved and in February 1994 she finally persuaded her superiors to obtain a search warrant and dig up the Wests' back garden.

The Wests' eldest son, 20-year-old Stephen, was at home - it was his day off - when the police knocked on the door with the search warrant.

In his book, Stephen West - who had been convinced by his father that his older sister was living in the Midlands - recalls: "I told one of the detectives that they were going to end up making fools of themselves and he just replied 'That's up to us'.
"I wanted to know the reasons why they thought Heather was buried there but they wouldn't tell me." Stephen and his mother tried frantically to contact his father, who was working on a building about 20 minutes' drive from Gloucester.

They finally got hold of him at 1.50pm and he said he was on his way home, but he did not arrive until 5.40pm.

It has never been explained what Fred West did during those four hours. He himself claimed he pulled over and passed out and blamed fumes from the painting he had been doing.

But several authors and criminologists have speculated that he may have spent the time disposing of incriminating evidence - including grisly souvenirs from the bodies of his victims - or even visiting an as-yet-undiscovered burial ground somewhere in south Gloucestershire.

We will never know.

A pact?
As police officers toiled in their back garden Fred and Rose West stayed up most of that night discussing what to do.

Geoffrey Wansell, whose book An Evil Love was written after he obtained exclusive access to 150 hours of Fred West's tapes and other documents, believes they cooked up a "pact". He says: "Frederick West would have told her that he would 'sort it out' with the police the following day, and that she 'had nothing to worry about' as he 'would take all the blame'."

Mr Wansell says of the pact: "Though he would renege on it during his bleakest hours in prison, it was to bind him to her for the rest of his life."

On 25 February Fred West was taken into Gloucester police station for questioning. He immediately admitted having killed Heather but told Det Con Savage: "The thing I'd like to stress is that Rose knew nothing at all."

Later that day the police diggers made a discovery which would catapult the inquiry from one of purely local interest, to one which would ultimately draw reporters and film crews from all over the world ...

They unearthed human remains in the garden but Professor Bernard Knight, the eminent pathologist who had been called on to assist the police, pointed out there was a third leg bone. It was clear there was more than one body buried in the garden of 25 Cromwell Street.

Fred West began a damage limitation exercise.

He agreed to go back to the garden and point out exactly where he had buried the two other girls - Shirley Robinson and Alison Chambers - who had vanished in the late 1970s. But he kept quiet about the six other bodies buried beneath the cellar and bathroom of 25 Cromwell Street.

It seems that his main motive for this silence was not that he feared becoming tagged a serial killer but he was appalled at the idea that his beloved house would be torn apart by the police. The key to unlocking the true horror of that house was a middle-aged Gloucestershire housewife who found herself projected into the centre of a worldwide media circus.

Janet Leach was a volunteer "appropriate adult" whose job it was to befriend and assist people - usually juveniles or the mentally sub-normal - who were taken into police custody. But she soon found herself becoming a confidante to a serial killer. Mrs Leach said the police had not been able to get West to admit there were other bodies but she was able to get him to reveal the truth.

"Are there any more bodies?" she asked.

West admitted there were and he went on to sketch a map of the cellar and bathroom, showing six more bodies.

But he was unable to identify many of his victims.

Unknown victims
One he described as "Scar Hand", because she had a burn on her hand, another he referred to as "Tulip" because he thought she was Dutch - in fact she was Swiss. Later West admitted he had buried another victim - an eight-year-old girl born to his first wife but fathered by another man - at another house in Gloucester.

He also confessed to having dumped two other bodies in fields near his childhood home at Much Marcle, on the Herefordshire-Gloucestershire border. They were his first wife, Rena, and a former lover, Ann McFall, both of whom hailed from Scotland. West's victims were a mixture of hitch-hikers, lodgers and teenage runaways who had been either lured to 25 Cromwell Street or abducted.

One of these was Lucy Partington, a 21-year-old university student from a respectable middle-class family. Her cousin was the novelist Martin Amis. She was picked up as she waited for a bus on the outskirts of Cheltenham one night in December 1973. It is almost certain she would not have accepted a lift from Fred West on his own. She only accepted a lift because of the presence of his wife, Rose.

Detectives were convinced from the start that Rose West was involved in the murders. But she denied everything and feigned shock at her husband's confessions.

She was bailed to a police safe house in Cheltenham - where she lived with Stephen and her eldest daughter Mae - but remained under suspicion. The house was bugged by police but she never said anything which implicated herself. On 18 April 1994 she was finally charged with a sex offence - the murder charges would come later - and taken into custody.

House of Horrors
Throughout the spring and summer of 1994 the world's media flocked to Gloucester to feast on the revelations coming out daily from what became known as the "House of Horrors". Hugh Worsnip, a veteran journalist and columnist on the Gloucester Citizen, said: "It had a tremendous impact on the city.
"The world's attention was turned to an obscure street in Gloucester.
"American and Japanese film crews were in the city and I was doing interviews for TV and radio stations all over the world."
He said the revelations about what had been happening at 25 Cromwell Street came as a terrible blow to Gloucester's civic pride: "It was regarded by many people in Gloucester as a sleight on the town."

Mr Worsnip, who began working on the Citizen in the 1960s, said the fact that a serial killer had been operating in the city for 20 years came as a huge shock to everyone, journalists included. But he said that - with the exception of Lucy Partington - West had deliberately chosen people whose disappearance would not be unduly noticed.
"They were the type of people who were drifting in society and were not easily traceable," he said.

But the case was about to take a turn for the worse ...

On New Year's Day 1995, just as the media hubbub was beginning to die down, Fred West hanged himself in Birmingham's Winson Green prison, where he was awaiting his trial on twelve murder charges. His death spawned a new raft of gruesome revelations but the full truth could not be published until Rose West had faced justice.

High drama in court
In October 1995 she was tried at Winchester Crown Court for ten murders - those of Rena Costello and Ann McFall pre-dated her appearance on the scene and must have been committed by Fred alone. It was one of the most sensational trials of the 20th century.

Every day witnesses appeared in court with stories to tell which were shocking, gruesome and - as far as Rose West was concerned - absolutely damning. There were to be many moments of high drama during the trial.

One of these moments of drama was when Fred West's eldest daughter, Anne-Marie, fixed her stepmother with a glare across the packed court before describing how her parents had together embarked on a campaign of sexual abuse when she was aged eight.

The second day of Anne-Marie's evidence was delayed for several hours after it became clear she had taken an overdose of pills during the night.

The trial was delayed for several days after Mrs Leach - under enormous stress - fell ill during her testimony.

Another witness, Caroline Raine, a former beauty queen, told the court of the night in 1972 when Fred and Rose abducted and sexually assaulted her as she hitch-hiked across Gloucestershire.

Her evidence was key. Prosecutor Brian Leveson, QC, suggested to the jury it was a blueprint for how the Wests were to pick up their victims. Caroline Raine was allowed to live - and the Wests were later prosecuted and fined over the incident. Clearly they made up their minds that future victims would not be allowed to live to tell their tales.

By the end of the trial the jurors had been convinced of Rose West's guilt.

She was found guilty on all ten counts by unanimous decision and was jailed for life. The home secretary has since told her that she will never be allowed out.

In October 1996, Gloucester City Council finally demolished 25 Cromwell Street.

There were calls for a memorial garden to be built on the spot but there were fears it would be turned into a ghoulish shrine. Today the spot where nine bodies were found is simply a landscaped footpath leading to the city centre.

But the legacy of the House of Horrors continues to take its toll.

Fred West's brother John hanged himself as he waited to find out if a jury would find him guilty of raping Anne-Marie. She herself has struggled to come to terms with the abuse she suffered at the hands of her father and stepmother.

In November 1999 she was rescued after throwing herself into the water from a bridge near Gloucester in an apparent suicide bid. In January 2002 Stephen West attempted suicide at his home in Bussage, near Stroud after his girlfriend left him.

In a chilling echo of the death of his father and uncle, Stephen tried to hang himself but he survived when the rope snapped.

Eight years after police found the first body there continues to be speculation that Fred West claimed more victims and buried them somewhere in Gloucestershire.

Mrs Leach said Fred had admitted killing Mary Bastholm, a 15-year-old who went missing in Gloucester in 1968. She said: "Fred said that there were two other bodies in shallow graves in the woods but there was no way they would ever be found.
"He said there were 20 other bodies spread around and he would give the police one a year."

If he was telling the truth, he has taken his secrets to the grave and Rose West is showing no signs of wanting to reveal any more about the murders as she serves her life sentences for ten murders at the high-security Durham Prison.

The victims
1967 - Ann McFall (Scottish nanny and Fred's lover. Was eight months pregnant with his child). Body found in "letterbox field" near Much Marcle
1970 - Rena Costello (Fred's first wife, also Scottish). Body found in "fingerpost field" near Much Marcle.
1972 - Charmaine West, 8 (Rena's eldest child). Body found beneath 25 Midland Road, Gloucester
1973 - Linda Gough, 21 (seamstress from Gloucester). Body found beneath 25 Cromwell Street
1973 - Lucy Partington, 21 (university student, from Gotherington, near Cheltenham). Body found beneath 25 Cromwell Street.
1974 - Carol Cooper,15 (schoolgirl from Worcester). Body found beneath 25 Cromwell Street
1975 - Juanita Mott, 19 (from Newent, Glos) Body found beneath 25 Cromwell Street
1975 - Shirley Hubbard, 15 (schoolgirl from Worcester). Body found beneath 25 Cromwell St
1977 - Therese Siegenthaler, 21 (Swiss hitchhiker). Body found beneath 25 Cromwell St
1977 - Alison Chambers, 17 (originally from Swansea). Body found in garden of 25 Cromwell St
1978 - Shirley Robinson, 18 (lodger and Fred's lover. Heavily pregnant). Body found in garden of 25 Cromwell St.
1987 - Heather West, 16 (Fred and Rose's eldest daughter). Body found in garden of 25 Cromwell St.

This profile of Fred and Rose West was written by BBC News Online's Chris Summers.

02-16-2004, 09:24 PM
OK kiddies, did ya think I'd forget ya????? No no no, we're back for another installment..

This weeks special is a Mexican-machete wielding badass known as.....

Juan Corona
BORN : 1934


VICTIMS : 25 confirmed (most likely more)

Juan Corona was born in Mexico in 1934. His life there is somewhat of a mystery, but what we do know started when he moved to the U.S. in the 50's as a migrant worker. From here he turned himself into a successful labor contractor in Yuba County, California. And there were few signs of what really went on in Corona's head.

In 1970 a young Mexican man was viciously attacked with a machete (he was nearly scalped) in Corona's gay brothers cafe. The man accused Corona's brother, Natividad Corona, of the crime and filed a law suit, seeking $250,000, against him. Natividad fled the country not long after this and the case was forgotten. The crime wasn't linked to Juan, why would it?

On May 19, 1971, a farmer who had hired Corona to arrange labor for his farm found a large, grave shaped, hole between two tree's. He asked the nearest worker about it but he just shrugged it off, not knowing or caring it seemed. Well this farmer was a nosy bastard and really wanted to know what the hell was going on, so he returned to the hole later that night only to find that it had been filled in. And this bastard was a real nosy cunt. He called police and had them check it out. After a bit of digging they found themselves a nice fresh corpse. It was Kenneth Whitacre, a known bum. His head had been ripped apart with a cleaver or machete. They also found some gay porn buried with him, leading police to file the case as a sex crime.

Police were not that worried about the crime and never suspected what was to happen next.

Four days later on a nearby farm some workers discovered another body. It was Charles Fleming, a known drifter. As police searched the new burial site another corpse was found. Then another. Then another. Then another. I could go on but I'm sure you get the picture. After nine full days of excavation police called the search off. It was June 4. They had 25 corpses. And all had been killed since February. Now if that ain't prolific Im DLR....

Of the 25 victims police had been able to identify 21. Most were migrant workers, but some had been drifters and there were also a few bums. Most had been attacked with a machete or knife. All had been stabbed to death, a deep puncture to the chest followed by two slashes across the back of the head in the shape of a cross. All had been buried face up, arms stretched above their head and their shirts pulled up over theirs faces. Some had their pants pulled down and had signs of recent homosexual activity. The killer had some fun before or after they were dead.

None of the corpses had been reported as missing by family and if the bodies hadn't been discovered it would seem plausible that the killer would have gotten away with it all. But he had made four mistakes.
The first was to leave a grave open long enough to be seen by a nosy landowner.
The second was much more stupid. He had buried a receipt with his name on it with one victim, Melford Sample. The name on the receipt was "Juan V. Corona."
The third mistake was burying two bank deposit slips with the same name on them with another victim.
And the forth was being seen with a victim.

Police picked Corona up on murder charges. The case against him was based almost completely on the receipts found on Melford Sample's body and purely circumstantial evidence. Unfortunately for Juan when police search his home they found a Machete, a pistol, two butcher knives and a ledger that contained the names of seven victims. Corona's lawyers tried to argue this and also tried to lay the blame on his brother, a known violent offender with homosexual tendencies. The only problem with this argument was that Natividad was not even in the country at the time of the murders. Corona's lawyers only called one witness during the trial, and also failed to mention that Corona was diagnosed as schizophrenic in 1956, thereby ruling out any chance of an insanity defence. Despite his hopeless defense it still took the Jury 45 hours to convict Corona of the 25 murders (a record for the U.S. at that time) and a month later he was sentenced to life in prison.

While in prison Corona was linked with a few more murders but nothing even came of it. And then in 1978 an appeals court upheld an appeal by Corona citing that his legal team was incompetent and that he would receive a new trial. Unfortunately for Juan he was attacked in prison while awaiting the new trial. He has never regained sight in one of his eyes. He was then put through an extensive psychiatric observation period, further delaying his retrial.

It never made a difference though. In 1982 Corona was again found guilty of 25 murders. He went back to prison to serve out a new life sentence.

In 1978 Corona was reported to have told a Mexican consulate who was visiting the prison that he was guilty. This is the only reported time of him admitting the crime. The exact quote went - "Yes, I did it, but I'm a sick man and can't be judged by the standards of other men"

Betcha never drink a Corona beer again without having some evel thoughts, Huh??

and..of course the quote of the week.........

If I gave a shit about the parents I wouldn't have killed the kid."
Clifford Olson

02-23-2004, 01:00 PM
No requests this week??Things are gettin slow..........

OK, with all the fuss about gay marriages in the news this weeks installment is about a man that did his best to prevent them.......


Juan Chavez

"You don't understand, I want to get these men before they get me.
They're spreading AIDS." As Elvis would say, Hummmmmm......

BORN : 1966

DIED : not yet


[i]This one is a pretty rare case, a serial killer that operated during the 80's but was not convicted until 1999. I guess you could say he was pretty unlucky to get caught after 10 years of inactivity, even if that was forced upon him. So let me begin this story with his arrest, and the events leading up to it.

As with so many serial killers Juan had a pretty shitty childhood. His parent shot through when he was very young which meant Juan and his half brother had been left in their grandmother care as young children. After the woman hit Chavez with a pipe one too many times, the two became runaways in Ciudad Juarez, Mexico. Eventually the boys crossed the border (illegally) into Texas and then moved on to California.

Chavez went on to marry and have two children. He worked a series of low-level jobs, from dishwasher to steam-iron operator, in Los Angeles and committed a string of petty crimes to add to the pitiful income the lower classes are expected to live on in the USA.

But the interesting bit doesn't happen until 1994. Juan Chavez was sitting in Folsom State Prison for a botched kidnapping when police, who were investigating an old string of murders involving gay men in Los Angeles, finally matched a fingerprint on one of the victims car to a prisoner in Washington state. When they contacted the inmate he said he got the car from Chavez.

Once police had Chavez's name they quickly turned all attention to him as the main suspect in the unsolved murders. They matched a photo taken at an ATM, where a different victims credit card was used, to Chavez's half brother. On Dec. 14, they interviewed Juan Chavez in prison. Being a pretty family orientated guy, Juan was worried about his brother being implicated in the murders so he confessed to five murders the following day.

According to one officer who testified at Chavez's trial he said, "I thank God you guys found out about this, because you know what, that way I can clear my mind. My conscience has been bothering me for a long time."

So what did he do?

According to Chavez, men looking to have sex offered him money in Echo, Elysian, LaFayette and MacArthur parks, even though he did not dress or act like a prostitute. Obviously the fact that men kept offering him money for sex eventually got him down (and angry) so he started killing them. He never really explained why he was in well-known gay pickup spots at such regularity, but I guess that's beside the point.

His first known victim, according to police, was Alfred Rowswell, 46, who was found strangled in his LaFayette Park apartment in July 1986. Rowswell's car was found later that year in Utah, but fingerprints on the windows initially proved inconclusive.

Obviously no one tried to pick Chavez up over the next few years as there were no new victims until 1989 when Chavez killed four men in two months: Ruben Panis, 57, of Los Angeles; Donald Leeman, 48, of Los Angeles; Michael Cates, 46, of West Hollywood; and Leo Hildebrand, 52, of Alhambra. I guess he must have inadvertently dressed in a slightly homosexual way, but this would definitly have been without Juan knowledge I'm sure.

Juan's M.O. was that when these men inadvertently thought he was a rent-boy (because he definitely wasn't) he would to persuade the men to take him to their apartments. He would then tie them up and strangle them. It was never planned and the robberies only took place as an afterthought. The men were strangled with whatever took Juan's fancy (other than the naked men, oops, they never did, 'cos he wasn't gay was he, wink-wink, nod-nod) and included exercise ropes, neckties and electrical cords.

Prosecutors at Juan's trial played up the robbery angle throughout the trial, but Juan came up with a new defence during that - "You don't understand, I want to get these men before they get me. They're spreading AIDS."

But this silly insanity attempt was never going to work for poor Juan, so he eventually pled guilty to five murders as a trial could have led to him facing the death penalty. He was sentenced to 5 life sentences without the possibility of parole.

His half brother was never charged with any crime, so at least something went right for Juan.[i]

And the quote of the week......

"He started messing with the christmas tree, telling me how nice the christmas tree was. So I shot him."

02-23-2004, 01:50 PM
The Possible Murder Of Junyore Grades
It was noon, Febuary 18, 2004. In a small Texas bedroom things are getting hot, on a brisk winter day. An undersexed Sargent, who shall remain nameless to avoid possible lawsuit, is welcoming his wife home from Iraq.
They stand there, groping, fondling, and caressing. As there passions grow, the Sargent throws his wife on the bed and quickly flips her legs up in the air, sending an untied sand brown boot hurdling through the air and landing on a computer keyboard.
Somewhere, in the rural state of WV, Junyore Grades's monitor goes blank. As he checks the patch cord, an electric pulse surges through his body, electrifying his senses and boiling his blood. A bright light emulates from Junyore Grade's computer tower, and through some strange accident of nature, pulls him through a time portal to the year 2031.
Will Junyore Grades ever see 2004 again?? Will the Army discharge him as AWOL, MIA, KIA, or ASS?? Will he ever get to hold his beloved Alley_Kat again? Will his overdue library book bankrupt him?
Tune in later when you can here Junyore say, "GET ME THE HELL OUT OF HERE!!!" l

02-23-2004, 06:30 PM
LMMFAO!! ...Thats fuckin funny JG..

You just gotta vote brother...

Junyore Grades
02-24-2004, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by Bonzo
The Possible Murder Of Junyore Grades
It was noon, Febuary 18, 2004. In a small Texas bedroom things are getting hot, on a brisk winter day. An undersexed Sargent, who shall remain nameless to avoid possible lawsuit, is welcoming his wife home from Iraq.
They stand there, groping, fondling, and caressing. As there passions grow, the Sargent throws his wife on the bed and quickly flips her legs up in the air, sending an untied sand brown boot hurdling through the air and landing on a computer keyboard.
Somewhere, in the rural state of WV, Junyore Grades's monitor goes blank. As he checks the patch cord, an electric pulse surges through his body, electrifying his senses and boiling his blood. A bright light emulates from Junyore Grade's computer tower, and through some strange accident of nature, pulls him through a time portal to the year 2031.
Will Junyore Grades ever see 2004 again?? Will the Army discharge him as AWOL, MIA, KIA, or ASS?? Will he ever get to hold his beloved Alley_Kat again? Will his overdue library book bankrupt him?
Tune in later when you can here Junyore say, "GET ME THE HELL OUT OF HERE!!!" l

Hmm, so that's what happend. He must've busted one this morning too, because I'm back!!
By the way, I'm sorry to report that there is still no Van Halen Reunion.:mad:


02-24-2004, 05:43 PM
JG you are so funny...and so cute

Junyore Grades
02-25-2004, 08:24 AM
And pretty much house broken.

Hey Igo, hows about a good western shoot 'em up serial killer! Have ya' got any of those? You know, horse and buggies, cowboys/ indians, tumble weeds, slaughterd settlers, dead wagon masters, and such?

02-26-2004, 03:12 AM


If you ever had a reason to be afraid of clowns. This would be it.

Over the course of 3 years John Wayne Gacy, a part time children's party clown, would go on to sodomize, torture and murder over 30 young men, burying most of the bodies under the floor boards of his home.

Gacy would use a chloroform soaked rag to render his victims unconscious, then take them home and tie them up in his basement. He would then proceed to torture them sexually, using a varying range of dildos and sexual toys, eventually strangling them to death with a 2x4 while raping them.

kill count: 30+

Junyore Grades
02-26-2004, 08:27 AM
Never trust a clown. Painted on smiles and you really can't tell how big there feet really are. Always traveling in groups of 12 or so, in a Volkswagon Bug.
Even the word "Dildo" scares me. I have a strict belief that my ass is an outie.
How could you strangle someone with a 2x4, and rape them? I can't even figure out the lagistics of that. Now that I've thought about it, I'd like to go scrub my brain out.

02-27-2004, 08:00 AM
Originally posted by Junyore Grades

Hey Igo, hows about a good western shoot 'em up serial killer! Have ya' got any of those? You know, horse and buggies, cowboys/ indians, tumble weeds, slaughterd settlers, dead wagon masters, and such?

I'm a lookin JG.. Those things werent very well documented back then, probably because the people that would be documenting them were too worryed about becoming a victim....

I'll have sumthin tonight..

Junyore Grades
02-27-2004, 10:47 AM
My grandfather loved Westerns, mostly because of his love for horses. Everytime a horse would fall, he would gasp and lose his breath. Westerns are one of my favorite types of movie, but sadly, there aren't too many of them made today.

02-27-2004, 07:47 PM
I gotta admit
Everytime I see that Gacy clown pic it scares the shit out of me

02-28-2004, 08:23 AM
Welllll how could we not honor a request of THAT magnitude?????

(dont worry JG, I'm still looking for you) On a side note, This stuff is getting harder to find. Alot of dead links.Theres quite a few servers (Angelfire is one) That have dropped serial killer sites because they have deemed them "offensive". Censorship is everywhere today kids......


What a happy looking fellow. I bet he wouldn't harm a fly.

BORN : March, 1942

DIED : May, 1995


I'm sure that you all know what Gacy did, if not then here's a brief summary -

Gacy was a hypocondriac - in childhood he was hit in the head with a swing, and had a blood-clot on the brain, once this was removed he seemed to just invent any illness so people would pay attention. This little habit never seemed to leave him in later life. (He seemed to develop a heart problem anytime he was in danger)

He graduated business college and went on to marry into a wealthy family that owned a chain of Kentucky Fried Chicken restaurants in Waterloo, Iowa (he also had a son, also named John Wayne Gacy. You can bet your ass THAT names been changed..). John became a well known and liked member of the community, and his arrest in 1968, on a charge of attempting to coerce a male employee into homosexual acts came as a big suprise to everyone, especially his wife. Gacy didn't really want to go to trial so he paid for the young male to be beaten. All this did was cause more trouble and he had more charges laid against him. In the end Gacy pled guilty to sodomy and recieved 10 years in prison. Since he was such a model prisoner he was paroled in only eighteen months. Needless to say his wife divorced him while he was inside.

Gacy moved to Chicago where he set up as a building contractor. Once again he turned out to be a great success at his chosen profession. Gacy remarried and moved into a very upmarket neighborhood. He hosted large parties at his home for local dignitaries and neighbors. Gacy answered comments by his wife and others about the peculiar smell in the home by saying that there was a lot of dampness in the crawl space. In fact, he had employed teenagers in his business and had them dig trenches in the crawl space underneath his home. Gacy had been sexually torturing to death some of the young men who worked for him and others that he picked up in downtown Chicago. He became active in politics, working for the Democrats (he even had his picture taken with First Lady Rosalyn Carter, and a man named Ford). He also performed for sick children as 'Pogo or Patches the Clown'.


Gacy ran into trouble with the police again in February, 1971 when he was charged with the attempted rape of a young man. This charge was dropped as the victim never appeared in court at Gacy's hearing and the charges were dropped. On October 18, 1971, Gacy had his probation officially discharged.

Less than three months later Gacy killed for the first time. Gacy picked up the unidentified young man at a bus terminal and took him for a drive he would never return from. One of his favorite routines was to persuade them to participate in his "handcuff trick" in order to incapacitate them. He would then chloroform them and sodomize them. This was followed by his "rope trick" in which he would insert a rope around the victimís neck, insert a stick in the loop, and twist it slowly like a tourniquet until the victim strangled to death. Gacy liked to read passages from the Bible while doing this.

Gacy went on killing young men almost at will for seven years, burying them in the crawlspace and covering them with lime under his house. Gacy made up a story about sewer problems as the smell from the crawl space began to get worse, and it seems everyone believed him
The beginning of the end came for Gacy's on December 12, 1978. He picked up Robert Piest at a pharmacy where Piest worked. Gacy fed him a line about a better job and Piest fell for it, accompanying Gacy back to his house. The next time anyone would see Piest he was a bloated corpse.

As Gacy was the last person seen with Piest police decided to check him out, and as he had previous arrests for shagging young men, he made a great suspect. The police went to interview Gacy at his house and with the stench of 28 corpse wafting up into the house it didn't take to long for them to realize what was under the house, but they had no way of getting down there to check. Once the police had decided Gacy was there man they basically hassled the poor bastard into screwing up (they busted him on a pot charge), and once they had the evidence they needed Gacy was arrested.


John made a full confession, admitting there were 28 bodies under his house and garage (he even drew 'em a map!) and that he had dumped another five in a local river (the crawl space was full...).

After arrest Gacy tried feigning insanity, pretending he had another personality, Jack, who did all the evil shit. Then, once Jack failed, he tried to say he was forced into a confession and, in fact, it was a conspiracy by three other people who did all the killing and then set him up. POOR BABY.


While in prison Gacy did hundreds of paintings that were bought by everyone from Hollywood stars to the average guy. It became something of a trend to own one.
Gacy was executed on May 10, 1994, by leathal injection.

02-28-2004, 08:24 AM
Gacys house (now gone)


A John Wayne Gacy credit card??


A little doodle in prison about the Zodiac killer....


Another picture from jail, This ones of a rotting clown...


Now heres something I never saw before..... Manson by Gacy....


Want to buy an action figure for your child?? perfect birthday gift!


Only 90.00$ for a signed christmas card!!


Johnny dont PLAY games.......


One more clown...


02-28-2004, 09:16 AM
What the hells up with this......


This guy went to gacy in prison to have him paint a picture of his kid....




Another well published photo..


Sending birthday greetings to 19 yr old boys????? If it was 15 yrs earlyer it be "greeting from the crawl space".....


Gacy and one of his attorneys. I dont know what the hell he looks so happy about...


02-28-2004, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by DLR7884
What a waste of the sticky power :)

I'm not trying to be a dick, just letting you all know that nobody but you two care about this thread.

Abuse of power sucks.

I love this thread! Come often.

That elephant story is great. All are very interesting.


02-28-2004, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by Elitest
JG !!

blood on the carpet...this sounds promising!!

Yeah DLR7884 always does add a new perspective on matters.....always has..... hopefully always will ....but I dont think he'll return in this thread.....

I hear this often. I've never witnessed it.

02-28-2004, 11:36 AM
Damm can you imagine that Clown jamming Dildos up your ass.
What a horrible way to go..

02-28-2004, 12:11 PM

"She was giving me oral sex, and she got carried away . . . So I choked her."


Junyore Grades
03-04-2004, 02:03 PM

03-04-2004, 02:38 PM

Junyore Grades
03-04-2004, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by Ally_Kat

Hoss does have those beady eyes, doesn't he. Hmmmm....

03-04-2004, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by Junyore Grades

Put the fuckin hatchet down, I'm workin on it!!!!

Actually, The only thing I can find is from 1850... And has only one indian... But its too long, I'm trying to par it down so bear with me.. plus, it reads like erector set instructions so I have to punch it up a bit..

Annnnnyyyyy hoo, Ill give ya one to hold all you covering you eyes, looking thur your fingers people......

Does anybody here like pickles??? Well we have a story for you....

May I present.....

BORN : 1872
DIED : ??


Bela Kiss was a pretty ordinary guy. He lived in Czinkota, Hungary with his wife, and seemed nothing but devoted to her. This all ended in February 1912, when the bitch found herself a boyfriend. She was practically fucking him, this guy Paul Bikari, right under poor Bela's nose. Since his wife was 15 years younger than himself, it's safe to assume she never married him for love anyway. Well it seems Bela didn't like the fact she was screwing around, and some time around December 1912, she disappeared along with her boyfriend. Bela told the neighbors that she had ran away with him, and most took pity on poor Bela.

It was not long after his wife's disappearance that Kiss began collecting big metal drums. He told those that asked that they were filled with gasoline. With a war coming petrol would be a valuable commodity, so no one questioned why he needed so much.

Also around this time a few women had been reporting missing in Budapest. The only clues the police had were that they had been going to meet a man named Hoffmann. Police had trouble finding this Hoffmann, and it seemed he had vanished. The Czinkota law enforcement were well aware of the search for Hoffmann, but never for a moment linked Kiss with him.

In November 1914, Bela Kiss was drafted into the army. He was sent to the front to kill for his country. 18 months later Kiss went missing, and was presumed dead. Word was sent back to his town that he was dead.

In June 1916, the army came through Czinkota looking for stockpiled gasoline. The local constable remembered Kiss telling him about the contents of his drums and led the soldiers to the abandoned house of the dead man. Once inside the house they located seven drums, luckily for them, it seemed, all were full. But it was what they were full of that was to shock.

Wella, wellla each of the drums contained a naked body of a woman. All seven had been strangled, then place in the drums with alcohol, preserving the bodies. When the soldiers searched Kiss's house they found shitloads of letters and cards addressed to Mr. Hoffmann. It seemed that Kiss had placed ads in papers, under the name Hoffmann, wanting to meet with ladies. The ad read -
"lonely widower seeking female companionship."

The constable remembered that there were heaps more drums the last time he had been to the house visiting Kiss, and a search was organized. Over the next few days 17 more drums were found dumped around the town. And each of these drums contained a nicely pickled human. All were female except one, and not surprisingly that was the body of Paul Bikari, the guy who had been shagging his wife. Also among the pickled corpses was Kiss's wife and those that had gone missing earlier, last seen going to meet Hoffmann. It was also discovered that Kiss had duped some of the victims into giving him their savings.

Since Kiss had been killed in battle, the case was closed on the 24 murders.

But Then.....
In the spring of 1919, Bela Kiss was seen walking through his old hunting ground in Budapest. Once police began looking into Bela Kiss's death, it was discovered that he had actually switched identities with a man killed near him in battle, allowing him to start a new life after the war, with no one knowing about any past crimes. Unfortunately for police by the time they had figured out Kiss was still alive he had vanished again.

In 1924 a member of the French Foreign Legion went to police about a fellow legionnaire who continuously bragged about his expertise with the garrote. The soldiers name was Hoffmann, and the description fitted Bela Kiss perfectly. But once again luck was with Kiss. By the time police decided to act Hoffmann had deserted, vanishing without a trace.

In 1932 it was believed that Kiss was in New York. He was apparently spotted by a cop leaving Times Square Station. The fact that Bela Kiss would have been 60 at the time, and probably looking quite different from the last description of him, led most to believe that this siteing was bullshit.

In 1936 there was a strong rumour that Kiss was working in New York as a janitor. This rumour finally made it's way to police who went to check out the janitor, but, again, he had disappeared. It's not known whether or not this guy was Kiss or not, but it doesn't matter because he was never caught either way.

And since he was never caught we are left to wonder about the exact number of lives he actually claimed. Obviously it's more than the 24 they found, and since he evaded the police for such a long time, it would be fair to assume that he didn't stop at 24.

And the quote of the week.....

"I haven't blocked out the past. I wouldn't trade the person I am, or what I've done - or the people I've known - for anything. So I do think about it. And at times it's a rather mellow trip to lay back and remember."

Junyore Grades
03-05-2004, 04:32 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Igosplut
[B] Put the fuckin hatchet down, I'm workin on it!!!!

*rests hatcet on back of howitzer* M'kay.
*kicks dust*:mad:

03-07-2004, 08:07 PM
OK, Its a slow sunday night and I feel like posting something. Still havent got the text punched up for JG, so whats a man to do???

WING IT!!!!!!!

I fell over this one in a dark room, This reminded me of our very own poster "Wayne L"

so let me introduce...WAYNE L!!!! er.... I mean......


"I live in a world of people, but I feel all alone."
Jerry in a moment of deep reflection

BORN : ?

DIED : not yet

Victims : 4 (probably more)

"Her breasts had pale pink nipples .... I couldn't get a good cast of them, so I threw them away, then I threw her in the river"
Jerry deals with a problem

Jerome Henry Brudos hated his mother. In fact it seems he hated all women, I think he felt powerless around them. Yet he dressed as one. He was a weird guy.......
Brudos's troubles seem to have started at the age of 5 when he discovered he liked wearing women's shoes. He used to take them from his sisters, mother, and even from the town dump.
Upon reaching adolescence Brudos began being aroused by these shoes.

At the age of 17, despite seeming normal outwardly, he forced a young girl, at knife point, to take off her clothes while he took photo's of her. For this crime Jerry was to spend the next nine months in a mental hospital where he was defined as having an "early personality disorder" (really).
He eventually joined the army, where he seemed to settle in okay, until receiving a medical discharge. (He believed that a beautiful Korean woman snuck into his bed every night)
Once back home Brudos began to knock women down in the street and steal their shoes. These attacks stopped when Brudos met his future wife, Darcie. Within months she was pregnant and they were married. Brudos seemed content with married life. This lasted until Darcie was in hospital with their second child.

Jerry followed a girl who was wearing pretty shoes. Once he found where she lived he broke in, strangled and raped her, then stole her shoes. For Brudos there was no turning back from this point.
From this point he started making his wife walk around the house naked while he took photo's of her. He also began posing himself, in women's underwear.
Brudos's first murder was that of Linda Slawson, in January of 1968. Linda was selling encyclopedias door to door, and accidentally went to the wrong house. It turned out to be Brudos's house. Jerry took her out to the garage where he beat her, then strangled her. Brudos then sent his family out for hamburgers so he could play with her body(what the fuck were THEY doing during all this??). He dressed her up like a doll in the clothes he had been collecting over the past few years. He then cut off her left foot and put it in the freezer. Her body was dumped in the Willamette River.

In November Jerry found himself another victim. It was Jan Whitney, 23, who Brudos picked up on the side of the road after her car had broken down. Brudos took her home and hung her in his garage. Once she was dead Brudos anally raped the corpse. He then spent the next few hours playing dress-ups with his new doll. He decided to keep her and hung her from a hook in the garage ceiling. A few days later Brudos went away for thanksgiving with his family, and upon returning found that a car had smashed into his garage, leaving a hole in the corner. Luckily for Jerry the police officer who inspected the damage didn't look too hard inside. Not surprisingly Brudos got rid of the body in the Willamette River that night, but not before slicing off one of her breasts.

Brudos waited six months before striking again. He got Karen Sprinkler, 19, in a department store car park. He took her home, and as his wife was away, played with her for some time. He raped her, forced her to pose for him then, eventually, hung her. "She kicked a little bit then died." Brudos said later. Jerry then raped the corpse repeatedly before slicing off both breasts and dumping her in the Long Tom River.
On April 23, 1969, Brudos struck for the last time. Linda Salee, 23, was approached by Brudos and told she was being arrested for shoplifting. Brudos had a fake police badge and she believed him. He took her back to the garage where he strangled and raped her at the same time, in fact she died while he was raping her. Brudos decided to punish her(?) by sticking two hypodermic needles into her ribs and giving her electric shocks. Brudos said later that he hoped to make the corpse 'dance', but 'Instead it just burned her'. Brudos again kept the body for a day, and continued to violate the corpse, but didn't cut off her breast because she had pink nipples, 'nipples should be brown' Brudos said later. Instead of removing them he made plaster molds out of them. The next night he dumped her body in the Long Tom River.

On May 10, 1969 Linda Salee's bloated corpse was found floating in the Long Tom River. The body had been weighed down with a car gearbox that weigh almost as much as she did. The coroner found that she had been strangled with a ligature and had been in the water for at least two weeks.
Two days later, May 12, police divers found a second body about 50 metres from the first. It had been weighed down with a cylinder head, and had been in the water for around two months. The body was that of Karen Sprinkler. She was found fully clothed but when the clothes were removed it was discovered that both her breasts had been hacked off and replaced with scrunched up brown paper. She had also been strangled.

After the discovery of these bodies the police started to take notice. And eventually their inquiries led them to a strange 'Vietnam Vet' that was hanging around the local college (or a guy that had a car missing parts??). On May 25 police caught up with him. Jerry Brudos had been made. Over the next few days the police checked him out. They found that he was in a mental institution when younger, for a sexual deviation, and that he had lived near, when and where, a young girl, Linda Slawson, had disappeared months before. The police also found that Brudos had attempted to abduct a 15-year-old girl at gun point just one month before. On May 30 Brudos attempted to flee with his family but was arrested. When arrested Brudos was lying in the back seat covered in blankets trying to hide from police.
Brudos eventually admitted the murders to police. He was found guilty of all four murders, and was given life in prison.


He came up for Parole in 1999 (I would bet hes still in...).

Brudos currently has piles of women's shoe catalogues. Its reported that he writes to major companies asking for them. AND because of this he doesn't need pornography.

He likes Strawberry Milkshakes.

Brudos had his neck fractured not long after going to prison in one of many attacks on him (Imagine that??).

Jerry has taken to lodging countless appeals. The funniest of these would be the one where he alleges that a photograph taken of him with one of his victims corpses cannot prove his guilt as the corpse is not one of those he was found guilty of killing. Whether or not this is true it seems incredibly stupid that he would admit to one murder to prove his innocence to another.

Questions asked of Jerry

Q. "Do you feel some remorse, Jerry? Do you feel sorry for your victims - For the girls who died?"
A. Jerry picked up a piece of paper. screwed it up, and threw it on the floor, "That much," he said, "I care about those girls as much as that piece of wadded up paper...."
Det. Jim Byrnes

"I left her hanging there each day, and after work I would got out there and dress her and have sex with her. I was not sure what to do with her, I wanted something - something to keep"

"The girl was dead. I turned her around on the seat and had sex with the body from the rear."
Brudos on Jan Whitney

"I had a hacksaw and I cut off the left foot because I'm right handed. I took it home and put it in the freezer and used it for a photography model and to try shoes on."
Brudos on Linda Slawson

"I went back out later and had sex with her. Then I cut off both her breasts to make plastic moulds . . . they turned out better than the girl on the freeway"
Brudos on Karen Sprinkler

"She fought me pretty bad until I got the strap around her neck. I didn't like her - the way she kicked and scratched when I told her not too."

"I raped her again, but I didn't like the body. Her breast were all pink - the nipples weren't dark like they should be ..... I didn't cut them off because they didn't appeal to me."
Brudos on Linda Salee

"When you salt a breast down and dry it, it shrinks to about a third of it's normal size. I'm sure there's a way to do it so it will work, but I never could."
Perhaps Jerry should have spoken to Ed Gein (see above).

And the quote of the week (Or bi-week)

"It wasn't as dark and scary as it sounds. I had a lotta fun . . . Killing somebody's a funny experience"

03-08-2004, 02:48 AM
dear god.....

03-14-2004, 06:31 AM
Do I hear an F5 for this thread????.....


OK kids, I've been trying to find something on the "unusual" side....

And I'm sure your gettin sick of the same old "boring serial murder" storys....

I hear ya. Trouble is, is that their not cooperating (the murders that is) Hell, what do ya haveta do for a kink here???????

Well I think I've got the cure...... How about a little old fashon cannibal action???????? And one with disconcerning taste no less....

Can you say "EYEBALL SOUP"???

I thought you could................

So here we have.......

Dorangel Vargas

"Sure I eat people, anyone can eat human flesh, but you have to wash and garnish it well to avoid diseases."

Shit I like this guy already........

BORN : ??

DIED : ??

VICTIMS : maybe 10, maybe 0.

In Venezuela, February, 1999, police arrested Dorangel after finding human remains lying around his home. Almost straight away Vargas started talking. He claimed that he had cannibalised at least ten men from San Cristobal in the previous two years.

As the police continued the search they keep on turning up human skulls, and even stumbled onto some fresh entrails. I guess you can probably see how he makes the thread, huh?????

Bizarrely police allowed Dorangel to speak to local press while he was in custody. To stunned local press he claimed that he had a "predilection for human thighs and eyeball soups." (yow!!!)

And how do the press repay Dorangel?

They give him the pissy title of the "Hannibal Lecter of the Andes". Christ people, show some imagination.

But the crappy nickname didnít seem to stop Dorangel from continuing to incriminate himself. "I only eat the parts with muscles, particularly thighs and calves which are my favourite ... I make a very tasty stew with the tongue and I use the eyes to make a nutritious and healthy soup," he said in one local newspaper interview.

He also said he rejected overweight men because they had too much cholesterol, and the elderly were spared because their flesh "is contaminated and very tough."

To add the pretty bizarre nature of his eating habits Dorangel claims he was "given" the bodies by various people, including the police. Local press have a different version with reports claiming that he preyed on homeless men and labourers whom he clubbed to death with a metal tube.

And of course it wouldn't be South America if some of the locals didn't say that Vargas may be being used as a scapegoat for a ring of human organ traffickers.

And just when you thought it couldn't get any more bizarre, it came out that Vargas is a former mental hospital patient who was arrested on similar charges four years ago but released shortly afterward due to a lack of evidence.

I think we will leave the last word to Mr. Vargas himself. Take it away Dorangel...

"I prefers the taste of men to women and will not eat hands, feet or testicles, although I've been on the point of trying them on various occasions."

Watta picky eater, Huh??????????

And the quote of the week........

When I murdered my wife I removed the one obstacle which for ten years had apparently held me in check. After she had gone the way was clear for me to fulfill my destiny."

03-14-2004, 07:56 AM
Onya IGO :)

Killer thread !

03-20-2004, 09:53 AM
OK, here we are for this weeks installment of all that blood and gore you've come to know and love as.......

"The DLR Army serial killer thread"

I'm as giddy as a school girl over this weeks feature attraction. The story of two doctors, yes doctors that actually got away with their personal brand of kink......

So on with the show... And we have.........

"Itís obvious this man has a scalpel and knows how to use it . . . You donít find that kind of cutting edge on an ordinary knife. He knows precisely where all the internal organs are. Which makes it easy for him to remove the heart, the liver, the kidneys or the womb."
Taken from a report filed by Dr. Haerm on a victim of the Stockholm serial killer (that was him)

BORN : 1953

DIED : not yet

To begin with I'll sort out the names. Some books refer to the young witness in this case as Teet Haerm's young daughter and others refer to her as being Dr. Allgrens daughter. I guess that I'll let you decide on the identity as I am not 100% certain either way (although I believe that she is Dr. Haerms daughter). ALSO the name of the doctor himself - Dr. Teet Haerm. Sometimes it is spelt Haerm, sometimes Harm, and sometimes Hšrm. Since I prefer Haerm that's the one I'll use, mmmkay? So let's get to the story.

Dr. Haerm is almost alone in his field when it comes to murder. You see the good doctor was head forensic psychologist for the police in Stockholm, Sweden. He was very highly respected in the field as well.

So let us start this story in 1984. Haerm was a medical examiner that was used regularly by Stockholm police in the cities murder cases. He had also been published in many forensic medical journals which had made sure that he was well on the way to becoming an established expert in the field. His pet topics were suicide by strangulation and the methods of sexual psychopaths. All his success was seen as triumph in the face of adversity as his wife had killed herself two years earlier leaving Teet to bring up their daughter alone.

On July 19, 1984, the carefully dissected body of Catrine de Costa was found in garbage bags on a police sports ground. Dr. Haerm was called in and he reconstructed the body (except for the head and one breast which could not be found, hummmmm). D. Haerm was able to find the identity of the body through fingerprints.

One week later the good doctor was called in again. 26-year-old prostitute Annika Mors was found dead in a public park. Dr. Haerm found that she had been savagely raped, then strangled and mutilated. He also said that he believed the same perpetrator has committed the earlier murder of de Costa. Dr. Haerm told the head investigator in the case that,

"This surgery was done in a very professional manner. . .
the person who did this must have medical training."

On August 1st another body was found. Kristine Cravache, 27, was found naked and strangled in Stockholmís red light district.

Over the next few weeks Lena Grans, Cats Falk, Lena Bofors, Lena Manson and Lota Svenson all disappeared. Police assumed that they all suffered the same fate as the first three.

One of these women, Lena Bofors, had promised to supply police with information on the murderer, whom she said worked for the police. Unfortunately for police and Lena she was never seen again following her promise of Ďnaming namesí.

Not having any real clues to go on police chose to blanket the red light district. All prostitutes were questioned about strange men. As one would expect they received quite a few tit bits of information, but almost all mentioned one guy in particular, a man driving a white VW.

Once police did a check on the white VW van they came up with a name that surprised them, Dr. Teet Haerm. He was bought in for questioning.

While Haerm was being questioned police searched his home. There they found something very disturbing - a picture of his wife choking to death. I guess that it would have been hard for her to have taken this picture as she had apparently hung herself. The police believed they had another murder on their hands.

But police still didnít have enough to prove anything definite so they had to release the doctor. The fact that nothing had been proven against him his employer still found reason to fire him from his job.

While Haerm was trying to find his feet back on the street without a job, with a massive stigma attached to his name (poor guy), police continued to look into the serial murder case that he was suspected of.

But police were getting nowhere, if it was Dr. Haerm who had acted out these murders he had covered his tracks much to well, or so it seemed at this stage.

In March 1985 the bodies of two of the missing prostitutes were found. Lena Grans and Cats Falk were found in a car submerged near the sea near Hamarby. They were killed in a similar manner to the earlier victims.

On January 7, 1986, another body was found. Tazunga Toyonaga, a Japanese student, was found in Copenhagen. She had also been strangled and mutilated.

One of Dr. Haermís best friends was Dr. Thomas Allgren. Dr. Allgren also had a secret passion, but his was much more nasty than Teetís, he liked to play with his little daughter, Karin. You can probably guess what the meaning of that was.

So when police found out about this sickoís pastimes they were quick to pounce on him. He didnít take his time in admitting his Ďloveí for his 4 year old daughter. He also, when prompted, told police that his friend Teet was present on some occasions when he molested the little girl. But he went further, he told police that he had helped butcher prostitutes with his friend also.

Allgren told police that Haerm picked up prostitutes from the street and took them back to the morgue. Once there he would Ďdo his businessí, then strangle and dismember them.

Allgren told police that Haerm was intent on wiping whores off the face of the earth. He also said that Haerm was very fond of eating the prostitutes flesh. I guess butchering whores can make you pretty hungry. According to Allgren, it was alway Haerm who initiated the murders, never him.

On October 28, 1987, Haerm was arrested and charged with the murder of seven prostitutes, his wife and the Japanese student.

The prosecutions lead witness - Haermís 5 year old daughter (sometimes referred to as Karin Allgren). Apparently she witnessed the two doctors behead a whore with a power-saw. And she was TWO at the time of the murder. She was FIVE when she testified. What the prosecution want them to believe is that she was able to remember something that happened when she was TWO YEARS OLD. Not that these fucker didnt deserve alot of slow death, but a two year old witness?? But the prosecutors were able to find twelve people who bought it, and these were the twelve people in the jury box.

"They threw the head away. . . and then the lady was chopped up."

Both Haerm and Allgren were found guilty of one murder, prostitute Catrine de Costa, and were both given life sentences.


In May 1988 Dr. Teet Haerm and Dr. Thomas Allgren were given a retrial. The judge saw the method used to convict a man on the word on an accomplice who admitted his part in the crime under extreme duress and a three year old memory of a five year old child "unsound"......

The new judge found that while both men probably committed the act of murder there was a high level of doubt. He ordered both doctors to be released.

As far as anybody knows these two are still living the life of free men.

Shit, wheres the guys like the ones that killed Dahmer and Desalvo when ya need 'em??????

And the quote of the week......

"We wanted to do a crime that the world would have to stand up and take notice."

03-20-2004, 05:14 PM
Im stuck for another one!

03-24-2004, 07:03 PM
Do you have Canada's infamous pig farmer pickton in here yet? They announced last week that some people may still have pork in their freezers that may contain human meat. He gave it away to acquaintances!

60 + hookers missing, some DNA found on his farm, some in the processing plant area. YUCK!

03-24-2004, 10:05 PM
Angel....Baby, ya know you hit Igo in a soft spot dont ya..........


Yes we love 'em here..... And yes JG I'm still workin on yours.....

I must admit, This guy sailed under my radar. And WHAT a guy....60+??? whew, talk about devotion to his personal kink......
we'll see if we can do 'er some justice. Everything on this guy is either one paragraph, or ten pages long so we'll try to cut and steal the best....Of course with my own personal alterations......

So for the non-Canadian slasher public may I introduce......

Robert William "Willie" Pickton!!!


Willie boy puts Canada on the serial killer map in a big way...

Born: 1950

Died: Not yet

Victims: Charged with 31, But could be 63+

In 1905, 52 years after the first Europeans settled in the area that is now called Port Coquitlam, William Pickton, the great-grandfather of Willie Pickton, bought land near a mental hospital (go figure). William Pickton raised hogs. His children grew up and raised hogs, and his children's children grew up and raised hogs, all on the very same farm. Then in the late '50s the Picktons were forced to sell their farm and move. They had to make way for Lougheed Highway.

In 1963, Leonard Pickton and his wife, Helen Louise, bought 40 acres of swamp for $18,000, towed their blue-and-white farmhouse (I KNEW this would come down to trailer trash) to the site, and began raising children and pigs. They had two sons, Robert and David, and a daughter, Linda, who was not brought up on the farm but in the city, where she attended boarding school. Linda eventually married a businessman, and currently lives in the relatively posh neighborhood of South Granville, near downtown Vancouver.

Linda's brothers, Robert and David, remained on the farm, with its shit, it smells, its blood and butchery. The boys' father died in 1978 and their mother followed him to the grave in 1979. The brothers, then in their late 20s, inherited the farm with their sister.

In 1994, the Picktons struck it rich. Their farmland, purchased for $18,000 in 1963, was worth $300,000 in 1993. By 1994 it was valued at $7.2 million. In the fall of 1994, they sold a part of their farm for $1.7 million to Eternal Holdings, a townhouse development company. That same year the city of Port Coquitlam also bought a chunk of their land, for $1.2 million, and turned it into a park. In 1995, Port Coquitlam's school district bought a piece of the pig farm for $2.3 million, and built Blakeburn Elementary School on the site.

Arial view of the Picktons pig farm

After making his small fortune, David Pickton left the family farm and moved a mile or less down the road to a new property on 2552 Burns Road, where he opened a party hall called Piggy's Palace in 1996.

Robert Pickton now had the resources and the freedom to do as he pleased. Piggy's Palace was a "nonprofit society" dedicated to raising money for "sports organizations and other worthy groups." The long tin shed on 2552 Burns Road was visited by almost everyone in Port Coquitlam. And not just badass people: two mayors, several city council members, local business and civic leaders, ice hockey moms, high school and elementary school students--they all came for "functions, dances, concerts and other recreations" at Piggy's Palace. Port Coquitlam Coun- cillor Darrell Penner, according to the Now, visited Piggy's Palace "a few times," believed that thousands of people had been to the place, and, though he had enjoyed some roasted pork, was certain it did not come from 953 Dominion Avenue, that is, from pigs that had been eating the women murdered on the Pickton farm (yea, right....)

But where else could it have come from? The entire city of Port Coquitlam (pop. 53,000), it seemed, was feeding on pigs that had been fed by the suspected serial killer Robert Pickton.
It wasn't just the guests of Piggy's Palace who consumed Pickton's pigs. The unusable remains of the pigs Robert slaughtered and served to his friends and neighbors--pig entrails, brains, bones, nerve tissue, and gore--were taken by truck to a rendering plant near the DES called West Coast Reduction Ltd. Many are certain that the partial remains of the murdered street walkers were also trucked to West Coast Reduction Ltd.

Located on 105 North Commercial Drive, West Coast Reduction's facility is impressive. It's a complex of huge cylindrical cookers, storage tanks, office buildings, industrial stacks, and railroad tracks. The plant turns animal bones, guts, fish, blood, pig entrails, used restaurant grease, and, now many believe, the remains of sex workers into a number of consumer products, like lipstick base, soaps, shampoos, and perfumes. These commodities that improve human appearance are shipped all over the world. As well as beauty products, the rendering plant also make food for farm animals that humans consume.

"Vancouver residents have recently learned... that fragments of some of these dead women's bodies may have entered the food chain through the rendering plant" cites a statement made by the regional director of the Canadian Food Inspection Agency Shiela Fagnan: "We made inquiries after learning that Robert Pickton had met the women he is accused of killing on his trips to the rendering plant.... Any testing that would have been done [at the plant] would be around surveillance for chemical residues. I can't imagine any testing that would distinguish, um, you know--[one] animal matter... from another."

Yeow!!!!!! Not your everyday slasher I'd say..........More tomorrow kids..

03-29-2004, 08:56 PM
OK kids. I didnt forget about this weeks installment, Its just that I worked all week end and didnt have a chance to mangle the text into something suitable for posting.

I did realise that I sorta put the pigs before the hookers, so to speak so the story got a little sidetracked......We'll try to repent with this weeks installment in the next two days......

So untill then, I'll give ya a quote of the week from one of the big favorites here at the DLR Army serial killer thread......

"I've killed no one. I've ordered no one to be killed. These children who come to you with their knives, they're your children. I didn't teach them, you did."

04-04-2004, 09:29 AM
OK, We're back and all fired up to complete the installment of Robert "Willie" pickton Quite the sick fuck, wouldnt ya say??? We'd also like ta hear from you western Canadian members that might have sampled o' Willies "specially" raised pork. That would sorta add that personal touch to this installment. After all, Its all about Bacon and Hockey up there, aint it??

Now to pick up where we left off, There was a large amount of hookers poofing into thin air.........

No other slum or ghetto in Canada matches the squalor of Vancouverís Downtown Eastside 10-block urban wasteland (where Pickton frequented for his victums), with rundown hotels and pawn shops, stained and fractured sidewalks, gutters and alleyways littered with garbage, used condoms and hypodermic needles. They call the district ďLow Track,Ē and it fits.

9 bodies in 15 years not unusual -- Crime statistics for Edmonton seem in line with prostitute deaths in other cities. The 15 victims were among 63 missing women, from the Vancouver Downtown Eastside. While some were reported missing immediately, others weren't noticed until months after they disappeared. Rebecca Guno, vanished from Vancouver in June 1983. Her name was the first of 61 women to disappear mysteriously over the 2 decades that followed.

Pickton, was charged in 1997 with attempted murder and aggravated assault of a prostitute, although for reasons that are unclear, he was never prosecuted. "He said, uh, that he could get rid of us, you know, dispose of us, and he wouldn't get caught and nobody would miss us because of who we were,Ē Kim (one of the lucky ones to get out alive) She claims Pickton then grabbed one of two knives placed on a side table. When he lunged at Mona(Mona Wilson, 26 last seen November 2001
, Kim ran out the door.

After the prompting of several victims familys the police finally searched the farm. For years, police paid little heed, dismissing concerns that the women had been murdered, or that a serial killer was at work.
Now, 40 officers from a special task force that was set up in the spring of 2002 are sifting through the dirt of the pickton pig farm. Relatives of the missing women say they are encouraged by what police told them was a major development in the case. They have lived for years not knowing whether their daughters, sisters and nieces were dead or alive, but they are also sickened to think what police might find at the pig farm.

The investigation will be long and painstaking, and there is a chance that pigs on the farm may have destroyed crucial evidence. Experts say pigs will devour a human body, breaking bones to get at the marrow.

Pickton is charged with 1st-degree murder in the deaths of:

Sereena Abotsway, 29 disappeared August 2001
Heather Bottomley, 25 disappeared April 2001
Heather Chinnock, 30 last seen April 2001
Jennifer Furminger, last seen in 1999
Inga Hall, 46 last seen February 1998
Helen Hallmark, last seen in 1997
Tanya Holyk, 23 last seen October 1996
Sherry Irving, 24 last seen 1997
Andrea Joesbury, 22 last seen June 2001
Patricia Johnson, last seen March 2001
Jacqueline McDonell, 23 last seen January 1999
Diane Rock, 34 last seen October 2001
Mona Wilson, 26 last seen November 2001
Brenda Wolfe, 32 last seen February 1999
Georgina Papin, last seen in 1999

Victim DNA found:
Marnie Frey missing since August1997
Sarah de Vries vanished in 1998.

The last of the initial 15 charges was filed in October 2002.

Wella wella, That was quite a ride, Huh???

And the quote of the week.....

"I never knew where I was going, I never knew what I was doing - that's why you never nailed me . . . you never knew."

04-04-2004, 04:55 PM
I cant read that green type Igo!!

04-08-2004, 07:06 AM
[color=purple]Hmmmmm, I'm running outta colors[/purple]

04-10-2004, 08:33 AM
Another request has crossed the desk here at the Serial Killer thread. For this one we have to vere into left field, Or as I'd like to say, Left field TASMANIA DEVIL style........

Yes Panamark threatened to lock this thread, and ban my username if I didnt put something up from his neck of the woods "Toot Sweet Mate". Crikies we cant have that now can we??

So off into TAZ left field we go. Also, this is technically a mass murder story not a Serial killer. So, what the hell is a Mass Murderer? Its described as "Any single event, single location homicide involving four or more victims is classified as mass murder." From there it branches out into 'classic mass murder' and 'family mass murder', both pretty self explanatory. We also have spree murder, which is just a mass murder with two or more different locations with no cooling off period between each murder.

So now you know what one is, why not see what one does...........


Martin Bryant

"That doesn't matter, um, it's good to have a talk to people. I tell you I'd rather be in at Kentucky Fried Chicken at this minute."
Marty talks to the police after his day in the sun.

BORN : May 7 1967
DIED : not yet, although he has been trying recently.
Became Famous : April 28 1996

Marty was a simple guy. The psychiatrist say he has the mental age of an 11 year old. Not suprising really. Well anyway, Marty owned some guns. And one day he went for a little drive down to Port Arthur, on the georgous little island state of Tasmania, Australia (not too far from where Panamark lives). So, anyway, Marty decided to go hunting, I don't think anyone really knows why, I doubt whether Martin has a clue either. While at Port Arthur Marty shot some people, over 60 in fact, and of these people shot 35 died.

Interesting Bits

Martins nickname is "Stupid Marty", not hard to figure out why.

Martin was rich. He had been shacked up with an old woman who left him a shitload of money, perhaps he wasn't that stupid after all.

Port Arthur is an old convict site and when Martin started killing people most of the crowd actually thought that it was all a reinactment of old convict days.

It took Bryant only 90 seconds in the Broad Arrow Cafe to kill 20. He really must have been psyched.

He then took the road to the Sea Scape Inn, and along the way 12 more ended up dead. Then he eventually stopped at the Sea Scape, killing the owners and a guest.

All up 35 Dead, and Marty comes running, naked, out of the burning Sea Scape, badly burned but alive.

He never had a gun licence.

His favorite films were BABE and The Sound of Music.

He once flew to Disneyland but came home after three days because it started raining.

In late 1995 Marty lost his luggage while returning to Australia and, when found, customs found 4 pornographic videos containing Beastiality in them.

Martin walked out of the cinema during Casino because he didn't like the violence in it.

Random Quotes

"Nobody ever wants to listen to me, or go with me. I'm getting fed up with this. I'll think of something, and everybody will remember me."
Allegedly said to a neighbour a year before the massacre.

"I've got something important to do tomorrow"
Allegedly said the night before the massacre.

"No one gets away from me"
Allegedly yelled at a victim.

"I wish I had that AR-15 in here, then I could probably get out.....I don't like being locked up, it's not very nice."
Martin shows some great thinking in his interview with police.

"You see, if people don't do these unfortunate things, you guys wouldn't have a job."
Marty show some more great thinking.

"Yes....It's a sweet little gun. Because it's so light."
His description of the AR-15.

"I wish I'd had a few more friends. But I didn't have a great deal of friends at school so it made things difficult."
A reason perhaps?

"Umm, well they've got a saftey-catch thing."
When asked about how safe guns are.

Most of these quotes are taken from Martin Bryant interview with police on Jult 4th 1996. Others are from various newspaper articles.


Marty hits the big time

And the quote of the week.....

"I'm a sick person. I know that. How could a normal guy do what I did? . . . It was like another guy was inside me."

04-11-2004, 02:14 AM
Thanks IGO !

Some good research once again. Correct me if Im wrong, but I think this was the worst case of mass murder involving a gun ever. It was a horrible day in Oz, I remember watching the TV when it was happening, they had no idea how many people he had shot, just that
there was a lot of them. The whole of Australia wanted the cops to shoot the fucker when they had him cornered.
The government ended up banning practically all firearms after this incident. These laws are in place to this day.

The site at Port Arthur was already infamous for its brutal torture and treatment of convicts. Its well known in Paranormal circles as a "haunted hot spot" if you are into that sort of thing. Then this shit goes down. Tasmania ?? Theres something strange going on down

04-17-2004, 08:27 PM
not really serial killers, but I know JG wanted something like this

Bear River (Massacre at Boa Ogoi)

On 29 January 1863 Colonel Patrick Edward Connor and about 200 California Volunteers attacked a Northwestern Shoshone winter village located at the confluence of Beaver Creek and Bear River, twelve miles west and north of the village of Franklin in Cache Valley and just a short distance north of the present Utah-Idaho boundary line. This band of 450 Shoshoni under war chief Bear Hunter had watched uneasily as Mormon farmers had moved into the Indian home of Cache Valley in the spring of 1860 and now, three years later, had appropriated all the land and water of the lush mountain valley. The young men of the tribe had struck back at the white settlers; this prompted Utah territorial officials to call on Connor's troops to punish the Northwestern band. Before the colonel led his men from Camp Douglas at Salt Lake City north to Bear River, he had announced that he intended to take no prisoners.

As the troopers approached the Indian camp in the early morning darkness at 6:00 a.m., they found the Shoshone warriors entrenched behind the ten-foot eastern embankment of Beaver Creek (afterwards called Battle Creek). The Volunteers suffered most of their twenty-three casualties in their first charge across the open plain in front of the Shoshone village. Colonel Connor soon changed tactics, which resulted in a complete envelopment of the Shoshone camp by the soldiers who began firing on the Indian men, women, and children indiscriminately. By 8:00 a.m., the Indian men were out of ammunition, and the last two hours of the battle became a massacre as the soldiers used their revolvers to shoot down all the Indians they could find in the dense willows of the camp.

Local Mormons from Franklin numbered the slain Shoshone at 368 and reported that 75% of the dead were women and children. After the slaughter ended, some of the undisciplined soldiers went through the Indian village raping women and using axes to bash in the heads of women and children who were already dying of wounds. Chief Bear Hunter was killed along with sub-chief, Lehi. The troops burned the seventy-five Indian lodges, recovered 1,000 bushels of wheat and flour, and appropriated 175 Shoshone horses. While the troops cared for their wounded and took their dead back to Camp Douglas for burial, the Indians' bodies were left on the field for the wolves and crows.

Although the Mormon settlers in Cache Valley expressed their gratitude for "the movement of Col. Connor as an intervention of the Almighty" in their behalf, the Bear River Massacre has been overlooked in the history of the American West chiefly because it occurred during the Civil War when a more important struggle was taking place in the East. Of the six major Indian massacres in the Far West, from Bear River in 1863 to Wounded Knee in 1890, the Bear River affair resulted in the most victims

04-18-2004, 10:29 PM
i recall that as the coroner detailed the injuries to the deceased,
bryant sat there in court giggling in a high girly voice.
a truly sick puppy. have we looked at ivan milat yet?

04-20-2004, 09:18 PM
I'll get to that probably this weekend. Too many things going on right now............sorry

04-22-2004, 01:52 AM
thanx igo, btw your thread is a cool read man!!

11-29-2004, 03:37 PM


11-29-2004, 04:10 PM
But it was good of you to pull it up. I had never read it before.

Hopefully it doesn't give any of our readers any ideas...

Mr Walker
03-14-2012, 07:58 AM
Not really a serial killer, but this made me think of this thread (btw... haven't seen Igo around in a while... wonder if he caught any shows yet)

Lizzie Borden Ax Murder Mystery Could Finally Be Solved With Discovery Of 120-Year-Old Journals
Created 03/13/2012 - 7:00pm

By Debbie Emery - Radar Reporter

The legend of Lizzie Borden has terrified generations of children who have heard tales of the librarian who was believed to have hacked her father and stepmother to death with an ax in 1892.

Now 120 years after the sensational murder trial, which ended with the 32-year-old being acquitted, new evidence has emerged that may finally solve the cold case that has fascinated historians for more than a century.

The bodies of Andrew and Abby Borden were found by Lizzie and the family’s maid, Bridget Sullivan, after suffering crushing blows from a hatchet in their Fall River, Massachusetts home on August 4, 1892.

Lizzie soon became the prime suspect in the grisly double murder, with financial and property gain and a falling out with her step-mom being cited as the sinister motive.

Much of the evidence from the original investigation, including the infamous “handless hatchet’’ and a bloody pillow sham found at the scene of the crime were kept by the family’s attorney, Andrew Jackson Jennings, and now two handwritten journals penned by the lawyer may provide the missing pieces of the puzzle, reported the Boston Globe.

“It’s all new material, completely unpublished,’’ said Michael Martins, curator of the Fall River Historical Society, which recently acquired the journals. “It’s the only file Jennings retained, and it’s the first idea we have about how the defense went about building its case.’’

Jennings’ grandson, Edward Waring, left the journals to the society when he died last year after keeping them hidden during his lifetime out of fear that his grandfather may be misquoted because his handwriting was hard to read.

Specialists have now transcribed the pile of evidence, which includes notes, interviews with witnesses, newspaper clippings and legal notes, to shed light on Andrew Borden’s relationship with his daughters, Lizzie and Emma.

“It’s clear from what these people said that Andrew Borden was apparently quite concerned about his daughters’ well-being, and he often referred to them as his girls,’’ Martins said. “We know now that he was not a gentleman who deprived his daughters of much.’’

The caring father is in sharp contrast to the long-founded image of Borden being a bitter, miserly old man.

The pages of the fragile journals are brittle and delicate so they are being conserved before they are transcribed, after which the society plans to publish them.

“We really want to handle them as little as possible,’’ revealed Martins, who explained that it seems unlikely that the journals hold the “smoking gun” to solve the crime but that doesn't lessen their value.

“It’s so rare to have primary source material appear 120 years after the fact,’’ he said.

Following her acquittal on June 20, 1893, Lizzie Borden moved into a new home with Emma, until the sisters fell out 12 years later. Lizzie had her gall bladder removed after which she was in poor health for a year until her death from pneumonia on June 1, 1927.