Bereaved Mother Arrested for Questioning Laura Bush

[DLR'sCock]

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/US/09/17/bush.protester/index.html



Laura Bush Heckled During Campaign Speech
CNN

Hamilton, New Jersey - The mother of a soldier killed in Iraq was arrested Thursday after interrupting a campaign speech by first lady Laura Bush. As police hauled her away, she shouted, "Police brutality."


Laura Bush praised the administration's achievements in the war on terror and the economy.
(Photo: The Associated Press)

Wearing a T-shirt with the message "President Bush You Killed My Son," Sue Niederer of nearby Hopewell screamed questions at the first lady as the audience tried to drown her out by chanting, "Four more years! Four more years!"

She pressed on, refused to leave and eventually police removed her from the firehouse rally.

The first lady finished her speech, praising the administration's achievements in the war on terror and the economy.

Outside, Niederer said she wanted to ask Laura Bush "Why the senators, the legislators, the congressmen, why aren't their children serving?"

She went on to blame the president for the death of her 24-year-old son, Army First Lieutenant Seth Dvorin. He was killed while trying to defuse a roadside bomb that exploded on him.

"My son was in the Army, and he was killed February third this year," she said.

As the Hamilton police and Secret Service agents surrounded her and reporters pressed her with questions, she held her ground, claiming "I had my ticket" to attend the speech by the first lady.

Police subsequently handcuffed her and she was led away to a nearby van. As she was escorted, she repeatedly shouted "Police brutality" and demanded to know her rights and the charges.

Later, she was charged with defiant trespass and released.

Since her son's death, the bereaved mother has spoken out repeatedly against the ongoing Iraq conflict. She is active in an anti-war protest group, Military Families Speak Out.

The Pittsburgh Independent Media Center reports she recently participated in demonstrations around the Republican National Convention in New York.

In March, The Toronto Star placed her outside Walter Reed Army Hospital in Washington, D.C. where many of the wounded soldiers are treated; Dover Air Force base where soldier remains arrive; and shouting at Secretary of State Colin Powell's motorcade after a speech at Princeton University.

Neither the Bush campaign nor the Hamilton Police would comment on the incident.

-------

[ELVIS]

The cost of freedom...

[Mezro]

It's one thing to have her removed because she was a disruption but it reeks of bullshit to have her arrested.

Mezro...she lost her son and has a right to express those feelings...

[ODShowtime]

She's probably just upset because her son was blown to bits in the middle of a bullshit war.

[DrMaddVibe]

Originally posted by Mezro
It's one thing to have her removed because she was a disruption but it reeks of bullshit to have her arrested.

Mezro...she lost her son and has a right to express those feelings...


There is a time and a place for everything, and IF she is who she says and IF this did in fact happen to her son then she chose the wrong place to air her feelings.

If you expect to hold any rally hostage to your lone voice then think again...you will be arrested. A concert, a city park or a re-election campaign stop disrupting the many that are peacefully choosing to gather shouldn't have to hear the greif striken voice of a lady that doesn't understand the price of Freedom! There is a reason why our flag is red,white and blue. Every color represents something and this woman doesn't understand what red stands for.

She would've been better served to cherish her son's memory with honor instead of harboring vanity. Then again that's IF she is who she says she is and IF this did in fact happen to her family!

[Steve Savicki]

Originally posted by Mezro
Mezro...she lost her son and has a right to express those feelings...
Dam right.

[Mezro]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
There is a reason why our flag is red,white and blue. Every color represents something and this woman doesn't understand what red stands for.

She understands: red stands for the blood of her son who died fighting a questionable war because he loved his country.

Mezro...once again, she had a right to express her feelings to Laura Bush and under the circumstances it was the correct course of action to have her removed...what I dispute is the arrest...

[fanofdave]

first things first: it is sad and tragic that this woman lost her
son in the line of duty. that said, ......

.....her son was not drafted. he enlisted. of his own free will.
knowing fully that he may be called upon to fight and possibly
risk his life while performing his duties. the mother has
every right to mourn the loss of her son.

if her son was a policeman, was called to investigate
a domestic disturbance and got shot and killed, would she
blame the police department for putting her son in harms way?

if her house should catch fire, will she call the fire department
and risk the lives of the firemen or will she let her house burn
down so that potential loss of life will be avoided?

it is tragic that anyone loses their life in their line of work,
but these type of careers carry a high risk. i know. i retired
from 21 years of active duty in the service a few years ago.

you may not believe in this war, but we enlist to serve.
we keep our opinions to ourselves knowing fully that we
may have to get involved in a conflict that does not
agree with our personal and political beliefs. if you don't
want to be in the service and you're not willing to risk your
life, don't join. if you are in the service and don't want
to risk your life, get out. it is that simple.

i pray for this woman and her son just as i pray for the protection
of all the servicemen and women. but they volunteered to serve.

[ELVIS]

Very nice, fanofdave...

[Mezro]

Originally posted by fanofdave
it is tragic that anyone loses their life in their line of work,
but these type of careers carry a high risk. i know. i retired
from 21 years of active duty in the service a few years ago.

Thanks for caring enough to keep all of us safe fanofdave. You and everyone else who served in the Armed Forces are true heroes.

Mezro...I might not believe in Iraq but I sure as hell respect the troops...

[Sgt Schultz]

This woman is clueless and she is totally maligning her OWN SON'S service and sacrifice. I'm sorry, but I don't care if her son was killed in action or not. She's an ignoramus about the circumstances of her son's death, how the military works etc. Here are the facts;

The charges have been dismissed.....
Police dismiss charges against woman who interrupted first lady (http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/104-09172004-367614.html)

She says,
"I'll tell you the kind of son he was to me: He was the kind to tell you he loved you, then cry after he said it."

Right. We all believe that.

According to her, the conversations she had with officers who were present at his death there was a suspicious object lying in the middle of the road and they stopped the convoy. 2nd Lt. Dvorin and the driver got out to see what it was. When 2nd Lt. Dvorin realized it was probably a bomb, he sent the driver back to the truck and waved everyone away. Then the bomb was remotely detonated, killing him.

She says,
"His training was in air defense artillery," she said. "He had no training in defusing bombs. Why wasn't an expert handling this? What's particularly amazing to me is that this was a mission to defuse bombs and there apparently was no expert in that area in the lead vehicle. Since there wasn't, why weren't they rerouted around that bomb? "

Moron, he wasn’t defusing the bomb he was DOING HIS DUTY as an officer. Once he recognized that it was a bomb he told others to get out of there. What he didn’t realize was that the bomb was probably detonated by someone remotely, that was watching this happen. Once they realized the Americans saw the bomb and that Dvorin was sending others away they decided to detonate it so they’d at least get him.

Dvorin's stepgrandmother, Florence Sapir said
"War used to be an honorable thing. This one is as far from that as you can get. Seth died in vain. So did the more than 500 other soldiers who died over there. They died for nothing."

Bullshit. This totally denigrates what the soldiers are doing over there. One more thing Grammaw – war was never an honorable thing. Idiot.

"He also was promised that he would never go to combat," she said. "If he was in a war area, they told him, he would not be up front. "

Every soldier is trained for the eventuality of combat because if you are a soldier you might be in combat. There’s no way a recruiter told him he’d never be in combat. What her son probably told her was that since he was in Air Defense Artillery and Iraq had no air force, he’d probably not see combat. Talk to the cooks who fought at Iwo Jima.

“Ms. Niederer said that, since learning of her son's death, she asked U.S. Congressman Rush Holt, D-N.J., how many wives, husbands and children of U.S. congressmen and senators actually are in a war zone in Iraq.
"You know what he told me? None. Somebody tell me how fair that is?"

It’s very fair – since it is an all volunteer army, moron.

"His father refused to pay last 2 years in college. He was in debt. If you're looking for me to say patriotism, I'm not. They [the Army] offer you the world. They give you signing bonuses. Give you college, upfront money, health insurance _ [recruiters are] great salesmen."

Hmm, so Mrs. Divorced is kinda blaming her ex for this. So he didn’t join for patriotism but he wanted to be in the FBI or CIA – that’s not patriotic?

"He never had experience being in charge. He definitely did not have training in what ended up killing him."

Bullshit – he obviously was a leader.

"By the time you call for an expert, you're dead. These guys are sitting ducks every single day. They didn't have proper vests, the helmets are questionable, they didn't have computers"

What? This is all jibberish.

"I was totally against the war then. My feeling was that it was religious war, guerrilla atmosphere. They could care less about human lives. When you don't care about lives it's a war you can't win. I thought it was Bush's vendetta -- cleaning up his father's mess."

Again jibberish. What is the war about? Make up your mind.

"I wanted to rip the president's head off. Curse him, yell at him, call him a self righteous bastard and a lot of other words. I think if I had him in front of me I would shoot him in the groined area. Let him suffer. And just continue shooting him there. Put him through misery, like he's doing to everyone else. He doesn't deserve any better"

I'm sure your son would be so proud to know you said that.

"He flat out lied to us, killing our troops. "

If someone tells you what they think is true, believing it 100% are they lying? I didn’t think so. A Commander In Chief commands the Armed Forces and when they are in a war some may die. Which part don’t you understand?

"Are traumatized soldiers getting the help they need?
I have friends who have children in Iraq. This is taking one heck of a toll upon the men. I've heard this many times from many friends. It's the same thing--that they become mentally unstable. He's not only a danger to himself, he's a danger to the men in his platoon. This is what they don't care about, the affect it can have on men fighting."

Again bullshit. Anyone that needs treatment gets it. She’s conjuring up this “crazy vet” crap that was the myth trotted out after Vietnam – read Stolen Valor and you’ll see this is total crap.

"What would you say to a young person who was thinking about joining the military?

Get whatever these recruiters tell you in writing and make them sign it and take it to an attorney. And make copies, lots of copies. "

Any moron knows if you join the military – no matter what your MOS is – you might see combat.

"No one is being trained.", "no on one wants to train these people. No one cares to take command of the troops."

Right.

"One thing that's very important is to make sure that we keep up the morale of our troops"

Huh? Then start by shutting you own trap. Or, if you do want to speak try to sound like you know something.

[Sarge's Little Helper]

This woman is clueless and she is totally maligning her OWN SON'S service and sacrifice. I'm sorry, but I don't care if her son was killed in action or not. She's an ignoramus about the circumstances of her son's death, how the military works etc. Here are the facts;

The charges have been dismissed.....
Police dismiss charges against woman who interrupted first lady (http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/104-09172004-367614.html)

She says,
"I'll tell you the kind of son he was to me: He was the kind to tell you he loved you, then cry after he said it."

Right. We all believe that.

According to her, the conversations she had with officers who were present at his death there was a suspicious object lying in the middle of the road and they stopped the convoy. 2nd Lt. Dvorin and the driver got out to see what it was. When 2nd Lt. Dvorin realized it was probably a bomb, he sent the driver back to the truck and waved everyone away. Then the bomb was remotely detonated, killing him.

She says,
"His training was in air defense artillery," she said. "He had no training in defusing bombs. Why wasn't an expert handling this? What's particularly amazing to me is that this was a mission to defuse bombs and there apparently was no expert in that area in the lead vehicle. Since there wasn't, why weren't they rerouted around that bomb? "

Moron, he wasn’t defusing the bomb he was DOING HIS DUTY as an officer. Once he recognized that it was a bomb he told others to get out of there. What he didn’t realize was that the bomb was probably detonated by someone remotely, that was watching this happen. Once they realized the Americans saw the bomb and that Dvorin was sending others away they decided to detonate it so they’d at least get him.

Dvorin's stepgrandmother, Florence Sapir said
"War used to be an honorable thing. This one is as far from that as you can get. Seth died in vain. So did the more than 500 other soldiers who died over there. They died for nothing."

Bullshit. This totally denigrates what the soldiers are doing over there. One more thing Grammaw – war was never an honorable thing. Idiot.

"He also was promised that he would never go to combat," she said. "If he was in a war area, they told him, he would not be up front. "

Every soldier is trained for the eventuality of combat because if you are a soldier you might be in combat. There’s no way a recruiter told him he’d never be in combat. What her son probably told her was that since he was in Air Defense Artillery and Iraq had no air force, he’d probably not see combat. Talk to the cooks who fought at Iwo Jima.

“Ms. Niederer said that, since learning of her son's death, she asked U.S. Congressman Rush Holt, D-N.J., how many wives, husbands and children of U.S. congressmen and senators actually are in a war zone in Iraq.
"You know what he told me? None. Somebody tell me how fair that is?"

It’s very fair – since it is an all volunteer army, moron.

"His father refused to pay last 2 years in college. He was in debt. If you're looking for me to say patriotism, I'm not. They [the Army] offer you the world. They give you signing bonuses. Give you college, upfront money, health insurance _ [recruiters are] great salesmen."

Hmm, so Mrs. Divorced is kinda blaming her ex for this. So he didn’t join for patriotism but he wanted to be in the FBI or CIA – that’s not patriotic?

"He never had experience being in charge. He definitely did not have training in what ended up killing him."

Bullshit – he obviously was a leader.

"By the time you call for an expert, you're dead. These guys are sitting ducks every single day. They didn't have proper vests, the helmets are questionable, they didn't have computers"

What? This is all jibberish.

"I was totally against the war then. My feeling was that it was religious war, guerrilla atmosphere. They could care less about human lives. When you don't care about lives it's a war you can't win. I thought it was Bush's vendetta -- cleaning up his father's mess."

Again jibberish. What is the war about? Make up your mind.

"I wanted to rip the president's head off. Curse him, yell at him, call him a self righteous bastard and a lot of other words. I think if I had him in front of me I would shoot him in the groined area. Let him suffer. And just continue shooting him there. Put him through misery, like he's doing to everyone else. He doesn't deserve any better"

I'm sure your son would be so proud to know you said that.

"He flat out lied to us, killing our troops. "

If someone tells you what they think is true, believing it 100% are they lying? I didn’t think so. A Commander In Chief commands the Armed Forces and when they are in a war some may die. Which part don’t you understand?

"Are traumatized soldiers getting the help they need?
I have friends who have children in Iraq. This is taking one heck of a toll upon the men. I've heard this many times from many friends. It's the same thing--that they become mentally unstable. He's not only a danger to himself, he's a danger to the men in his platoon. This is what they don't care about, the affect it can have on men fighting."

Again bullshit. Anyone that needs treatment gets it. She’s conjuring up this “crazy vet” crap that was the myth trotted out after Vietnam – read Stolen Valor and you’ll see this is total crap.

"What would you say to a young person who was thinking about joining the military?

Get whatever these recruiters tell you in writing and make them sign it and take it to an attorney. And make copies, lots of copies. "

Any moron knows if you join the military – no matter what your MOS is – you might see combat.

"No one is being trained.", "no on one wants to train these people. No one cares to take command of the troops."

Right.

"One thing that's very important is to make sure that we keep up the morale of our troops"

Huh? Then start by shutting you own trap. Or, if you do want to speak try to sound like you know something.

Oops. I wasn't paying attention. Tell me again what is going on.

[Mezro]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz
This woman is clueless and she is totally maligning her OWN SON'S service and sacrifice. I'm sorry, but I don't care if her son was killed in action or not. She's an ignoramus about the circumstances of her son's death, how the military works etc.

From her point of view it doesn't fucking matter how the military works or how he died: she's a civilian who is grieving her son!

Mezro...we'd all be a bit clueless if we lost a loved one in combat...

[DLR'sCock]

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/09/20/143259

Some audio and video of the Mother who lost her son(yes he's DEAD and will never ever ever come back...) because of the selfish lies of the Bush Administration....


http://play.rbn.com/?url=demnow/demnow/demand/2004/sept/audio/dn20040920.ra&proto=rtsp&start=11:50.00

http://www.archive.org/download/dn2004-0920/dn2004-0920-1_64kb.mp3


http://play.rbn.com/?url=demnow/demnow/demand/2004/sept/video/dnB20040920a.rm&proto=rtsp&start=11:50.00

http://play.rbn.com/?url=demnow/demnow/demand/2004/sept/video/dnB20040920a.rm&proto=rtsp&start=11:50.00

[Sgt Schultz]

Originally posted by Mezro
From her point of view it doesn't fucking matter how the military works or how he died: she's a civilian who is grieving her son!

Mezro...we'd all be a bit clueless if we lost a loved one in combat...

I don't care. She's no different from all of the other idiots (read NYT etc) that spout on and on about war when they have not given militaryhistory a casual glance in the past - and now we're supposed to take what they have to say about it seriously?

She should grieve her son I have no problem with that. But, if she starts talking about shooting the President, how her son wasn't trained, etc I'm calling her on it. Just because she is greiving doesn't mean she can spout CRAP and get a pass.

If she really wanted to honor the memory of her son she'd give HIM some credit about being a leader - an officer who quite obviously was looking out for his men and doing his job. Instead, she makes him sound like a hapless Mama's Boy who didn't want to fight.

[Mezro]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz
If she really wanted to honor the memory of her son she'd give HIM some credit about being a leader - an officer who quite obviously was looking out for his men and doing his job. Instead, she makes him sound like a hapless Mama's Boy who didn't want to fight.

You got right to the root of the problem: perspective.

She didn't want him to fight and he proudly served. Everything else boils down to personal feelings and perspective.

Mezro...he was a good leader and did what a good leader would do...

[Sgt Schultz]

Originally posted by Mezro
You got right to the root of the problem: perspective.

She didn't want him to fight and he proudly served. Everything else boils down to personal feelings and perspective.

Mezro...he was a good leader and did what a good leader would do...

Couldn't agree with you more.

[Mezro]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz
Couldn't agree with you more.

BTW...your avatar is damn entertaining.

Mezro...Dan go boom indeed...

[Sgt Schultz]

Originally posted by Mezro
BTW...your avatar is damn entertaining.

Mezro...Dan go boom indeed...

Thanks but I can't take credit for making it.

Excuse my stupidity but I can't figure out what yours is, except that it's a school-girl outfit...........

Going back to the thread topic and expanding on your point I think what stands out most in my mind is this woman's selfishness.

[Mezro]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz
Excuse my stupidity but I can't figure out what yours is, except that it's a school-girl outfit...........

It's Go Go Yubari from Kill Bill Vol 1

Mezro...I have a thing for Asian women so it fits...

[Mezro]

Mezro...hope that helps solve the avatar mystery...

[Sgt Schultz]

OK thanks. I thought maybe it was from a movie.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by fanofdave
first things first: it is sad and tragic that this woman lost her
son in the line of duty. that said, ......

.....her son was not drafted. he enlisted. of his own free will.
knowing fully that he may be called upon to fight and possibly
risk his life while performing his duties. the mother has
every right to mourn the loss of her son.

if her son was a policeman, was called to investigate
a domestic disturbance and got shot and killed, would she
blame the police department for putting her son in harms way?

if her house should catch fire, will she call the fire department
and risk the lives of the firemen or will she let her house burn
down so that potential loss of life will be avoided?

it is tragic that anyone loses their life in their line of work,
but these type of careers carry a high risk. i know. i retired
from 21 years of active duty in the service a few years ago.

you may not believe in this war, but we enlist to serve.
we keep our opinions to ourselves knowing fully that we
may have to get involved in a conflict that does not
agree with our personal and political beliefs. if you don't
want to be in the service and you're not willing to risk your
life, don't join. if you are in the service and don't want
to risk your life, get out. it is that simple.

i pray for this woman and her son just as i pray for the protection
of all the servicemen and women. but they volunteered to serve.

I was going to make a similar statement, awesome post, and thanks for 21 years of service my friend.

I also want to add that of all my friends who are serving or who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan have mothers that didn't support the war simply based on fear of them dying there.
But they do understand the sense of duty that led their sons to enlist.

The charges were most likely dropped on that woman, i'd like to know so i'll dig and find out somehow.
She picked the wrong venue to voice her feelings and her choice in shirts was insulting to Mrs. Bush i'm sure.
Grief does not give us a right to disrupt a public event though i understand her position, she was wrong for her actions.

Just pray for the woman to find inner peace and someday maybe she'll learn to respect the sacrifice her son chose to make when he enlisted.