Gun Deaths In America

[scorpioboy33]

Hi Guys,
Just talked about this in a thread but I found the numbers for gun deaths in American Compared to Canada.

29,573 gun deaths in 2001

873 canada

Anyways why is there such a high amount of deaths in the US compared to the rest of the world?

And why do they allow assault weapons bans to expire?

Not looking for a fight, just trying to understand our differences

[scorpioboy33]

still no takers? where r the NRA peeps?

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by scorpioboy33
Anyways why is there such a high amount of deaths in the US compared to the rest of the world?



Not much reason to shoot people anywhere else...

[scorpioboy33]

Hey Good Morning Elvis :)

And whats the reason in the US to shoot each other...btw I always wanted to visit Louisiana

[ELVIS]

There are many reasons, most of which are related to miniority violence and drugs...

Why, do you want guns off the streets ??

Aint gonna happen...

[scorpioboy33]

hey doesn't matter to me...I perfer having 800 deaths to 29000 any day.....

I heard someone else say it's about the minorities...but not sure what that means

[FORD]

Originally posted by scorpioboy33
hey doesn't matter to me...I perfer having 800 deaths to 29000 any day.....

I heard someone else say it's about the minorities...but not sure what that means

It means Elvis is a racist :mad:

And so is "moses" Heston or anybody else who uses that as an excuse. The 2 little shitheads at Columbine High School were white. Tim Mc Veigh, who commited the second most violent act on American soil, was white. Paul Hill, who murdered doctors and others at an abortion clinic, was white. Eric Rudolph, who committed terrorist acts all over the southeast corner of this country, was white.

Those crimes were deliberate acts. based on hatred.

The "minority" crimes are usually acts of desperation, due to the economic conditions the person is living in. The color of the skin has nothing to do with it.

What DOES have a lot to do with it is the fact that guns and drugs had a lot of help getting into the inner cities in the first place. It's not exactly a secret that crack cocaine was first cooked in a CIA kitchen and then distributed to south central LA.

All goes back to eugenics (http://www.tribalmessenger.org/t-secret-gov/eugenics.htm), which has been a BCE hobby as long as treason has.

[scorpioboy33]

Originally posted by ELVIS
There are many reasons, most of which are related to miniority violence and drugs...

Why, do you want guns off the streets ??

Aint gonna happen...


are you insinuating that it's better to keep guns on the streets why?

[scorpioboy33]

Originally posted by FORD
It means Elvis is a racist :mad:

And so is anybody else who uses that as an excuse. The 2 little shitheads at Columbine High School were white. Tim Mc Veigh, who commited the second most violent act on American soil, was white. Paul Hill, who murdered doctors and others at an abortion clinic, was white. Eric Rudolph, who committed terrorist acts all over the southeast corner of this country, was white.

Those crimes were deliberate acts. based on hatred.

The "minority" crimes are usually acts of desperation, due to the economic conditions the person is living in. The color of the skin has nothing to do with it.

What DOES have a lot to do with it is the fact that guns and drugs had a lot of help getting into the inner cities in the first place. It's not exactly a secret that crack cocaine was first cooked in a CIA kitchen and then distributed to south central LA.

All goes back to eugenics (http://www.tribalmessenger.org/t-secret-gov/eugenics.htm), which has been a BCE hobby as long as treason has.

why than did they allow the assault weapon ban to end than? wtf

[FORD]

Originally posted by scorpioboy33
why than did they allow the assault weapon ban to end than? wtf

Because the National Rifle Association (NRA) is one of the most powerful political lobbies in this country. Junior was probably opposed to assault weapons, but he's afraid of losing votes from Republican gun nuts.

The NRA's interpretation of the second ammendment is entirely unlike that of most human beings with functional brains. I personally don't see any problem with sane, law abiding adults owning a reasonable number of weapons, if they so choose. On the other hand, anyone who insists on an arsenal of assault weapons in their home probably has issues of mental health and/or legality in the first place to believe they need to be so heavily armed.

Actually, I believe there was a lot of wisdom in the Chris Rock approach, though $5000 per bullet might be a little steep.

[Big Train]

I don' think there is an easy answer here, if that's what your fishing for. You can't blame the BCE (It's getting REAL tired Ford), you can't blame gangs, minorities or anything. Each crime, each shooting, each murder is an individual choice commited by an individual with issues. Pure and simple.

If your fishing for motives, the only one that is logical to me is the perversion of basic american ideals. Americans are self reliant people and believe in that. We believe sometimes it takes extreme effort and action to accomplish tough or even impossible goals. Which is why Americans put in more overtime willingly than any country on earth (Labor stats back this up).

It is when these ideals become perverted that bad things happen. When a father can't feed his family, sometimes the twisting of the self reliance concept makes it ok to rob a bank in his eyes or a store. To a gang member, his turf is sacred, for him to protect. If others come in or try to hurt his family, which could be another gang member, it is his duty to shoot the offender. He is just protecting his family after all.

A gun is merely a tool, in either example he could very well use knives, swords or bombs to accomplish the same goals.

[scorpioboy33]

B.T. thanks for the answer...I suppose I was just curious as to why. I don't understand it but I do know it's certainly not that Americans are evil..and I know its not because black people are evil..But I just don't grasp it. And I esp. don't understand why the gun laws are the way they are and how people are so quick to say GUNS don't kill people..esp. when you see these stats.
But again thanks for the answer.

[scorpioboy33]

what will it take to lower the amount of gun deaths

[singerman]

guns dont kill people....rappers do

[scorpioboy33]

thats kinda racist

[singerman]

racist?...in what way?

[scorpioboy33]

your right Im sure your talking about all the white rappers..sorry :)

[scorpioboy33]

seriously I shouldn't assume

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by ELVIS
There are many reasons, most of which are related to miniority violence and drugs...



Elvis, our own inbred, racist hick.

Makes katydid look like our own local Mensa Chapter


"I can't spell minority, but I'll sure as shit shoot one if I's sees 'em" - Elvis

miniority = a smaller version?

[singerman]

assuming that rappers kill people is not racist unless i suggested they were of a certain ethnic background...which im not....rappers can be white,black...hell even welsh!....by saying i was being racist, suggests you believe all rappers are possibly black....which in itself is maybe racist!?

[Ally_Kat]

scorp, are you going to be another Canadian that will be shocked to find out that I walk around nyc at night and not armed?

[scorpioboy33]

not at all Ally :) Im sure you do..and I know you wanted to join the Army etc..but to what do you attribute the amount of gun deaths in the us ?

[scorpioboy33]

touche singerman

[singerman]

i thankyou ;-)

[scorpioboy33]

hey when your right your right :D

[singerman]

while we are on the subject of guns (and possibly rappers)....we over in little England find it really strange to understand why, when these rappers finally make it big on the music scene and away from 'the streets'....instead of them being made heros cos theve made it out of the gutter....their fellow people from 'da streets' then decide to shoot them dead.......its happened on a number occasions......can someone please explain this????

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by scorpioboy33
not at all Ally :) Im sure you do..and I know you wanted to join the Army etc..but to what do you attribute the amount of gun deaths in the us ?

Why yes, yes I do! A higher population.

Population of US 294,372,443
Population of Canada 31,543,355


We have 262,829,088 more people than you. Obviously our overall gun death is going to be higher.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
Why yes, yes I do! A higher population.

Population of US 294,372,443
Population of Canada 31,543,355


We have 262,829,088 more people than you. Obviously our overall gun death is going to be higher.

Oh fer crissakes ally, that's BULLSHIT

Do the math, then post

PER CAPITA, we kill more fellow americans that they do. by far.

PER CAPITA we kill more than anyone in the world. by far.

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by singerman
while we are on the subject of guns (and possibly rappers)....we over in little England find it really strange to understand why, when these rappers finally make it big on the music scene and away from 'the streets'....instead of them being made heros cos theve made it out of the gutter....their fellow people from 'da streets' then decide to shoot them dead.......its happened on a number occasions......can someone please explain this????

Feuds. I know there was, maybe still is, a west coast east coast thing. That and a lot of rappers turn private feuds into public by rapping about it. It's all about acting gangsta. The bad boy who takes shit from no one. Like a musical mob, have you.

[scorpioboy33]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Oh fer crissakes ally, that's BULLSHIT

Do the math, then post

PER CAPITA, we kill more fellow americans that they do. by far.

PER CAPITA we kill more than anyone in the world. by far.


Originally posted by Ally_Kat
Why yes, yes I do! A higher population.

Population of US 294,372,443
Population of Canada 31,543,355


We have 262,829,088 more people than you. Obviously our overall gun death is going to be higher.
Ally Kat come on now..your smarter than that....that would still mean we should have 2900 gun deaths and not 800....no?

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Oh fer crissakes ally, that's BULLSHIT

Do the math, then post

PER CAPITA, we kill more fellow americans that they do. by far.

PER CAPITA we kill more than anyone in the world. by far.

No, it's not bullshit. We have a bigger population. More opportunity for overcrowded towns, more opportunity for a town on the "wrong side of the tracks", more opportunity for a lot of problems we wouldn't have if the population wasn't so big. The gun crime I see around here happens in the ghettos, the parts of town where there's overcrowding and you have some street fight pertaining to drugs, gangs, or some heated argument gone too far. Most involve people who dropped out of high school or didn't think they needed to go to college. On the news here, you never see shit like that happening in the un-ghetto neighborhoods - white, black, asian, indian, etc.

[singerman]

oh right i see now.....very sad though isnt it?.....i guess we are fairly lucky in the U.K...guns arnt really a major worry.....our cops dont carry guns on a daily basis....the theory being,if the cops dont carry guns the criminals wont need to carry them either....weird i know but it seems to work....apart from the 'yardie' gangs from jamaica that live in some cities that carry uzi machine guns...we are pretty much gun free when it comes to most crimes....most people here believe that if all our cops carried guns then the people that they chase are gonna start to carry them too

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by singerman
oh right i see now.....very sad though isnt it?.....i guess we are fairly lucky in the U.K...guns arnt really a major worry.....our cops dont carry guns on a daily basis....the theory being,if the cops dont carry guns the criminals wont need to carry them either....weird i know but it seems to work....apart from the 'yardie' gangs from jamaica that live in some cities that carry uzi machine guns...we are pretty much gun free when it comes to most crimes....most people here believe that if all our cops carried guns then the people that they chase are gonna start to carry them too

I thought guns were outlawed and then knives became popular over there...or am I thinking of another country in the region?

[scorpioboy33]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
The gun crime I see around here happens in the ghettos, the parts of town where there's overcrowding and you have some street fight pertaining to drugs, gangs, or some heated argument gone too far. On the news here, you never see shit like that happening in the un-ghetto neighborhoods - white, black, asian, indian, etc.


:rolleyes: ok dokey ally

[scorpioboy33]

ally oh I get it your joking..got yah.....if this is the case than shouldn't gun deaths be way higher in countries like india?

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
No, it's not bullshit. We have a bigger population. More opportunity for overcrowded towns, more opportunity for a town on the "wrong side of the tracks", more opportunity for a lot of problems we wouldn't have if the population wasn't so big. The gun crime I see around here happens in the ghettos, the parts of town where there's overcrowding and you have some street fight pertaining to drugs, gangs, or some heated argument gone too far. Most involve people who dropped out of high school or didn't think they needed to go to college. On the news here, you never see shit like that happening in the un-ghetto neighborhoods - white, black, asian, indian, etc.

BullSHIT.

pure and simple.

By YOUR logic then, the death by gun rate in other county's ghettos would mirror ours, WHICH THEY DONT.

And I dont know which newspapers you've been reading, BUT OUR WHITE, SUBURBAN NEIGHBORHOODS ARE FULL OF GUN VIOLENCE.

Your reasoning is flawed, with all due respect ally.

And dont rely on your local news hacks.

[Ally_Kat]

uh...what joke?

[scorpioboy33]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
BullSHIT.

pure and simple.

By YOUR logic then, the death by gun rate in other county's ghettos would mirror ours, WHICH THEY DONT.

And I dont know which newspapers you've been reading, BUT OUR WHITE, SUBURBAN NEIGHBORHOODS ARE FULL OF GUN VIOLENCE.

Your reasoning is flawed, with all due respect ally.

And dont rely on your local news hacks.

bingo!

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
BullSHIT.

pure and simple.

By YOUR logic then, the death by gun rate in other county's ghettos would mirror ours, WHICH THEY DONT.

And I dont know which newspapers you've been reading, BUT OUR WHITE, SUBURBAN NEIGHBORHOODS ARE FULL OF GUN VIOLENCE.

Your reasoning is flawed, with all due respect ally.

And dont rely on your local news hacks.

I can walk outside and see it. I know people who live in it.

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by scorpioboy33
ally oh I get it your joking..got yah.....if this is the case than shouldn't gun deaths be way higher in countries like india?

they don't have the bloods or crypts in India, do they?

[Big Train]

I stand by my original post

[scorpioboy33]

no but they have 3 times the people and 6 times the people in china??? oh forget it man your silly

[scorpioboy33]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
No, it's not bullshit. We have a bigger population. More opportunity for overcrowded towns

so basically it's a more dense population causing the problem..

[scorpioboy33]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
they don't have the bloods or crypts in India, do they?

I see your talking again about blacks doing the majority of the killing once again...and don't say that it's not about the blacks cause it's obvious what your saying

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Big Train
I don' think there is an easy answer here, if that's what your fishing for. You can't blame the BCE (It's getting REAL tired Ford), you can't blame gangs, minorities or anything. Each crime, each shooting, each murder is an individual choice commited by an individual with issues. Pure and simple.

If your fishing for motives, the only one that is logical to me is the perversion of basic american ideals. Americans are self reliant people and believe in that. We believe sometimes it takes extreme effort and action to accomplish tough or even impossible goals. Which is why Americans put in more overtime willingly than any country on earth (Labor stats back this up).

It is when these ideals become perverted that bad things happen. When a father can't feed his family, sometimes the twisting of the self reliance concept makes it ok to rob a bank in his eyes or a store. To a gang member, his turf is sacred, for him to protect. If others come in or try to hurt his family, which could be another gang member, it is his duty to shoot the offender. He is just protecting his family after all.

A gun is merely a tool, in either example he could very well use knives, swords or bombs to accomplish the same goals.

As much as this pains me, I canNOT disagree with any of BT's post.

As with any complicated issue, there IS NO single answer. I personally think it's a combination of our own heritage as a country, the rape of the west while wiping out an entire race of people, our culture, media, and politics.

BUT IT HAS ABOLUTLEY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WE HAVE. that's just ridiculous.

Well said, BT, you right wing gun toting wacko.

Greetings from the Left :D

[scorpioboy33]

your right BT is on the right track even though I don't agree with him on a whole it's alot better than saying it's cause were crowded or it doesn't happen in white communities or blame the crips and the bloods

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by scorpioboy33
I see your talking again about blacks doing the majority of the killing once again...and don't say that it's not about the blacks cause it's obvious what your saying

Actually, no. You're stereotyping. There's blacks, whites, latinos, asians, and many other ethinicities in gangs. You're the one that keeps bringing race into this. I'm talking about people in gangs who thing they are all badass and act how they act.

[singerman]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
I thought guns were outlawed and then knives became popular over there...or am I thinking of another country in the region?

yeah knives are the thing over here....and you have to have a license to own a gun....am i right in thinking that most people in the states and canada own a gun?....and if someone broke into your house.....do you have the right to shoot them?

[scorpioboy33]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
they don't have the bloods or crypts in India, do they?

I see your talking again about blacks doing the majority of the killing once again...and don't say that it's not about the blacks cause it's obvious what your saying
Originally posted by Ally_Kat
they don't have the bloods or crypts in India, do they?
no but they have other gangs obviously....and what about China...1.5 billion people...

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
they don't have the bloods or crypts in India, do they?

At least get your slang right.

It's Crips

NOT crypts

They got the name for the way they crippled their victims prior to killing them.

And your post reveals your lack of grasp of the situation.

Take away EVERY "bloods and crips" killing in history, and we'd STILL have more gun deaths by 10 times

Dont look for easy, sterotypical scapegoats

[scorpioboy33]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
At least get your slang right.

It's Crips

NOT crypts

They got the name for the way they crippled their victims prior to killing them.

And your post reveals your lack of grasp of the situation.

Take away EVERY "bloods and crips" killing in history, and we'd STILL have more gun deaths by 10 times

Dont look for easy, sterotypical scapegoats

Spot on!

[scorpioboy33]

it's amazing to me that janet jackson shows a nipple america freaks out...about the moral outrage..but it's ok to see a man blown away on CSI or Law and order???

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by singerman
yeah knives are the thing over here....and you have to have a license to own a gun....am i right in thinking that most people in the states and canada own a gun?....and if someone broke into your house.....do you have the right to shoot them?

eh, the majority of people I know here in the city don't own a gun. The few who do are cops. I've seen a trend for people out in the country to own a lot of guns, hunting and all the sort.

To own one here, there's a permit. But many people in shady business get unregistered ones, mainly thru the black market.

If there was a trespasser, i think it depends if your life was in danger or not. Not too sure on that.

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
At least get your slang right.

It's Crips

NOT crypts

They got the name for the way they crippled their victims prior to killing them.

And your post reveals your lack of grasp of the situation.

Take away EVERY "bloods and crips" killing in history, and we'd STILL have more gun deaths by 10 times

Dont look for easy, sterotypical scapegoats

It's not that they are easy, but that gangs are a huge source of crimes around here. Maybe not in your neck of the woods, but here they are. After them you have stuff happening in ghettos, then robberies, then the "white" neighborhoods and accidents all around are tied.

[singerman]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
At least get your slang right.

It's Crips

NOT crypts

They got the name for the way they crippled their victims prior to killing them.

And your post reveals your lack of grasp of the situation.

Take away EVERY "bloods and crips" killing in history, and we'd STILL have more gun deaths by 10 times

Dont look for easy, sterotypical scapegoats

i thought 'the crips'were gangs of cripples...going round causing trouble....ya know knocking people over by driving over their feet in their wheelchairs.....just cos they are pissed off at being disabled...i dont know......its a terrible world

[scorpioboy33]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
eh, the majority of people I know here in the city don't own a gun. The few who do are cops. I've seen a trend for people out in the country to own a lot of guns, hunting and all the sort.

To own one here, there's a permit. But many people in shady business get unregistered ones, mainly thru the black market.

If there was a trespasser, i think it depends if your life was in danger or not. Not too sure on that.

how do you feel about the whole assault weapons ban?

and btw which market???? just kidding ;)

[singerman]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
eh, the majority of people I know here in the city don't own a gun. The few who do are cops. I've seen a trend for people out in the country to own a lot of guns, hunting and all the sort.

To own one here, there's a permit. But many people in shady business get unregistered ones, mainly thru the black market.

If there was a trespasser, i think it depends if your life was in danger or not. Not too sure on that.

oh right,....i just wondered what the law was over there with regards to people who confront trespassers.....is it easy to get a permit over there?.....its really strict over here.....you have to give a damn good reason to own one....you cant just say 'i wanna go hunting'....but some loons still manage to get hold of them somehow

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
It's not that they are easy, but that gangs are a huge source of crimes around here. Maybe not in your neck of the woods, but here they are. After them you have stuff happening in ghettos, then robberies, then the "white" neighborhoods and accidents all around are tied.

I just noticed you're in NYC

No offense, but most people from NYC think the entire world revolves around them, and what happens there.

Whatever makes YOUR neighborhood violent probably has little to do with the other 99% of this country. I've been to almost every state over the years.

As to trhe question about shooting an intruder, it's different in all 50 states. And even then, your local prosecutor would have alot of leeway.

American justice has alot to do with the financial status of the perp.

or the Victim for that matter

[scorpioboy33]

in Denver when I lived there they had the Make my day law :(

[Big Train]

Lounge,

I thank you for considering my point of view. As far as the NRA and "gun toting wackos" go, I personally don't care for them. I have never owned or fired a gun in my life. Only thing I have ever done is hold one in my hand. Just not something I am into. I just don't think people who own them are bad. They are objects.

The problem is how people intend to use them. It goes back to what I was saying before about the perversion of traditional american ideals. Class warfare, race, population all have something to do with it, the the decision to commit a crime is an individual choice and act. Those factors may come into play as a makeup of the person's physce, but ultimately it is their choice. Millions of people in similar situations DON'T make that choice. The American ethos demands action, which is where I believe we differ from other countries.

That is not an insult to any other country, but more a reasoning to explain the perversion of American ideals. Take class warfare for example. Crime is high in poor areas, something we can all agree on. A lot of youths get involved in crime as a means to make money, to "be a man and take action" to improve the material aspects of their livelihood. The perversion happens when they make a decision to say if someone has to die in order for me to improve my situation, so be it. In Canada, where institutional unemployment is traditionally much higher, they don't have that same way of thinking, that it's ok if I have to remove a competitor by killing them literally.

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
I just noticed you're in NYC

No offense, but most people from NYC think the entire world revolves around them, and what happens there.

Whatever makes YOUR neighborhood violent probably has little to do with the other 99% of this country. I've been to almost every state over the years.


I don't think the world revolves around me. I just noticed that was the order inwhich incidents occur, and it seems to mirror in every other large city. Obviously it's not going to be that way in some of the less populated, more countrish areas. But, honestly, where do you see the most deaths ocurring?

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by singerman
oh right,....i just wondered what the law was over there with regards to people who confront trespassers.....is it easy to get a permit over there?.....its really strict over here.....you have to give a damn good reason to own one....you cant just say 'i wanna go hunting'....but some loons still manage to get hold of them somehow

Background check. Have to be clean inorder to get one. Then there's seperate laws on which ones you are allowed to have, and concealed weapons.

Here you have to get a hunting license in order to hunt.

I don't know all the details though. Never owned a gun or went hunting.

[singerman]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
I just noticed you're in NYC

No offense, but most people from NYC think the entire world revolves around them, and what happens there.

Whatever makes YOUR neighborhood violent probably has little to do with the other 99% of this country. I've been to almost every state over the years.

As to trhe question about shooting an intruder, it's different in all 50 states. And even then, your local prosecutor would have alot of leeway.

American justice has alot to do with the financial status of the perp.

or the Victim for that matter

thats interesting,when you say american justice has alot to do with financial status, it frightens me!.....it what way are they linked???

[LoungeMachine]

Well said.

I too am proud to say I've never owned, nor fired a gun.

I dont want to keep other US citizens from owning one if that's their wish, I just want them to have to go through a basic background check, and perhaps have a license. Is that really too much to ask?

And show me the Hunter that needs a fucking assault rifle.

[singerman]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
Background check. Have to be clean inorder to get one. Then there's seperate laws on which ones you are allowed to have, and concealed weapons.

Here you have to get a hunting license in order to hunt.

I don't know all the details though. Never owned a gun or went hunting.

oh i see.....and a permit for a concealed weapon?.....how can anyone control all these different permits....i mean when you want to use a concealed weapon......it is no longer concealed so do you have to have another permit for that!!! ha ha ha......god life is sooo different over that side of the world!!

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by singerman
thats interesting,when you say american justice has alot to do with financial status, it frightens me!.....it what way are they linked???

Simply put.......

Those who have money, can afford the best lawyers. [see OJ Simpson]


In America money buys everything, including "justice"

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Well said.

I too am proud to say I've never owned, nor fired a gun.

I dont want to keep other US citizens from owning one if that's their wish, I just want them to have to go through a basic background check, and perhaps have a license. Is that really too much to ask?

And show me the Hunter that needs a fucking assault rifle.

I'm all for a license. I've actually proposed that idea to people before, but it never seems to get a good reception and I don't know why. You got to have a license in order to drive a car, so why not in order to use a gun? Have a seminar and a written test on gun safety and all that, maybe some supervised time on a range -- stuff ya got to pass. And if you get a certain score and up, you can get the license and go buy a gun. When you go to buy the gun, the dealer can punch in your license number, check your current record and what not. Something comes up on your record, you're license gets suspended or revoked.

And different licenses for the types of guns. Not like one for each different kind, but kinda like how if you are going to drive a truck or a motorcycle, you need a different license because you handle them different. That make sense?

[scorpioboy33]

ally I hope you don't get pissed you rock we just have diff. opinions......and thats ok :)

just one thing how do you feel about assault rifles being legal

[singerman]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Simply put.......

Those who have money, can afford the best lawyers. [see OJ Simpson]


In America money buys everything, including "justice"

yeah i guess that happens here too.....the only difference is....if you have money, we like to put you in jail!

[scorpioboy33]

and you have coronation street

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by scorpioboy33
ally I hope you don't get pissed you rock we just have diff. opinions......and thats ok :)

just one thing how do you feel about assault rifles being legal




I don't really feel anything about it

[scorpioboy33]

but do you believe they should be banned?

[singerman]

Originally posted by scorpioboy33
and you have coronation street

what!!! you get that crap over there!!!!......quick!...wheres my gun! lol

[singerman]

Originally posted by scorpioboy33
ally I hope you don't get pissed you rock we just have diff. opinions......and thats ok :)

just one thing how do you feel about assault rifles being legal

can anybody tell me the need to own an assault rifle??

[scorpioboy33]

in canada we do...I LOVE IT!..I miss curly

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by scorpioboy33
but do you believe they should be banned?

I don't feel anything for that issue. Could care less.

[singerman]

Originally posted by scorpioboy33
in canada we do...I LOVE IT!..I miss curly

yo gotta be kidding me!??.....you have no idea about how embarresed i am....i hope you dont think thats how we all live!!

[scorpioboy33]

to bad you don't care about people carrying around assault weapons..but whatever...

no I don't think you live like that pal...I just dig it cause not everyones gorgeous...just working class people...i dig that

[singerman]

Originally posted by scorpioboy33
to bad you don't care about people carrying around assault weapons..but whatever...

no I don't think you live like that pal...I just dig it cause not everyones gorgeous...just working class people...i dig that

yeah its quite true to life in northern england.....i have to say we do like to make T.V programmes that are true to life....we dont tend till fill our shows with pretty people leading perfect lives and stuff..we tell it how it is

[singerman]

how the hell did we get to corrie from the gun issue!?

[Igosplut]

Originally posted by singerman
can anybody tell me the need to own an assault rifle??

First of all I would welcome ANYBODY here to describe to me the LEGAL definition (I.E. federal law) on what designates an "Assault weapon"

and thats without looking it up.... IF and its a big IF..You knew the legalitys of the definition then you might understand why the ban was not extended..

Can you tell ME why a legal gun owner should be allowed to own one form of a gun and not another?????Is it because for some unknown reason you figure that possessing one gun rather than another turns a law-abiding owner into a criminal??????

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by singerman
can anybody tell me the need to own an assault rifle??

Can anyone tell me the need to own a handgun?

The only reason for them is that they can be concealed.

The 'it's not the guns that are the problem just people that use them' argument is kind of incongrous when it comes to WMD's huh...

[Igosplut]

Originally posted by FORD
Because the National Rifle Association (NRA) is one of the most powerful political lobbies in this country. Junior was probably opposed to assault weapons, but he's afraid of losing votes from Republican gun nuts.

If you were half as well read as you would like everybody to believe, you would have more facts on the ban than just a Bush thing...


originally posted by Ford]The NRA's interpretation of the second ammendment is entirely unlike that of most human beings with functional brains. I personally don't see any problem with sane, law abiding adults owning a reasonable number of weapons, if they so choose. On the other hand, anyone who insists on an arsenal of assault weapons in their home probably has issues of mental health and/or legality in the first place to believe they need to be so heavily
armed.

So what your'e saying that is if someone chooses to own more than what you or "whoever" considers to be a "resonable" amount of guns, or they choose to be a collector of "assault weapons" that makes them suspect to having issues with "mental health"????

[Igosplut]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Can anyone tell me the need to own a handgun?

The only reason for them is that they can be concealed.

The 'it's not the guns that are the problem just people that use them' argument is kind of incongrous when it comes to WMD's huh...

Yes it is....

Only moral people follow laws.... If everybody had a high standard of morals, then you would have no problems. But thats not the case.

[lucky wilbury]

what is a reasonable amount of guns? i have six. does that make me a nut?

[FORD]

Originally posted by Igosplut
If you were half as well read as you would like everybody to believe, you would have more facts on the ban than just a Bush thing...

I know the whole NRA spin on the ban. I also remember when George Bush Sr resigned his NRA membership, because the NRA had become even too militant for him. Those guys are nutcases. They would have you believe that the 2nd Ammendment entitled you to a nuclear silo in your back yard.

[quote]So what your'e saying that is if someone chooses to own more than what you or "whoever" considers to be a "resonable" amount of guns, or they choose to be a collector of "assault weapons" that makes them suspect to having issues with "mental health"????

How many arms do you have? Unless you are a Hindu god or an octopus, I'll assume you have two. Therefore, you can't possibly use more than 2 handguns at the same time, and for reasons of accuracy, probably not more than one rifle at a time.

So given those physical limitations, how many guns do you think you need? Now if someone wants to collect historical weapons that probably wouldn't be all that useful in defense - or offense for that matter - then exceptions can be made. And for that reason, I don't feel like setting any arbitrary numbers. But I think I'd have serious questions about the sanity of anyone who had 10 or more recent model guns in their home, loaded or with ammo close by for all of them. And I'd have even more questions about the sanity of such person if they did NOT have a gun safe to secure the weapons. After all, self defense don't work so well if someone busts into your house when you aren't there, steals your guns, and uses them to rob your neighbors.

[Big Train]

Originally posted by singerman
can anybody tell me the need to own an assault rifle??

There is none. Not as a justification, but there is no "need" to own a Porsche, Lamborgihini or Ferrari either, or an airplane or exotic pets. However, here you have the freedom to use them in a safe manner.

I have no use for them either, but I don't want to impead someone's freedom who makes the choice to own them. Now, as for how many one person can have, "gun collections" belong in a museum or armory.

[FORD]

Originally posted by lucky wilbury
what is a reasonable amount of guns? i have six. does that make me a nut?

Since you're a trained CIA agent, you know the proper usage and handling of a firearm. I'm also guessing you secure your weapons at home.

[Big Train]

And on a side note, when people rail about Bush "shitting all over the constitution", in this case, letting the ban expire, he actually appears to be INCREASING personal freedom......even not all citizens would agree with it.

[Igosplut]

Originally posted by FORD
How many arms do you have? Unless you are a Hindu god or an octopus, I'll assume you have two. Therefore, you can't possibly use more than 2 handguns at the same time, and for reasons of accuracy, probably not more than one rifle at a time.

So if I can only use two guns at one time, Why do you have issues that I would have more??? You're still making the assumption that people who own more than what you or whoever considers "exceptable" amounts are automatically criminal.....


originally posted by Fordtations, how many guns do you think you need? Now if someone wants to collect historical weapons that probably wouldn't be all that useful in defense - or offense for that matter - then exceptions can be made. And for that reason, I don't feel like setting any arbitrary numbers. But I think I'd have serious questions about the sanity of anyone who had 10 or more recent model guns in their home, loaded or with ammo close by for all of them. And I'd have even more questions about the sanity of such person if they did NOT have a gun safe to secure the weapons. After all, self defense don't work so well if someone busts into your house when you aren't there, steals your guns, and uses them to rob your neighbors.

Your still dwelling on the assumption that I'm to blame for the criminal that would break into my home and use any means necessary to steal my property no matter what it is, rather than place the blame where it belongs......

[lucky wilbury]

Originally posted by FORD
I'm also guessing you secure your weapons at home.

most of them are except for a rifle which sits in it's case but it's bolt is remove and keep somewhere else. i know people who don't keep their guns not in safes but thats up to them. i'd be more worried about someone robbing a gun shop to get guns rather then stealing them from someones house.

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by FORD
It means Elvis is a racist :mad:



No, It means you're a piece of crap...

[Igosplut]

Originally posted by lucky wilbury
what is a reasonable amount of guns? i have six. does that make me a nut?

And some will believe that somebody that owns six, or twelve, or ninety legally are far worst than the criminal that has one illegally.....

[Igosplut]

Originally posted by lucky wilbury
i'd be more worried about someone robbing a gun shop to get guns rather then stealing them from someones house.

And the one thing people don't get is that the criminal that KNOWs you have guns in the house is alot less apt to risk a robbery, KNOWING he stands a chance of opposition.......

[singerman]

Originally posted by Big Train
There is none. Not as a justification, but there is no "need" to own a Porsche, Lamborgihini or Ferrari either, or an airplane or exotic pets. However, here you have the freedom to use them in a safe manner.

I have no use for them either, but I don't want to impead someone's freedom who makes the choice to own them. Now, as for how many one person can have, "gun collections" belong in a museum or armory.

mmm....well with out having that 'freedom' to own guns we dont need....i feel the U.K has a much better track record than the states or canada with regards gun crime.....i also feel where people have the freedom to own what ever they want, i'd feel much safer knowing the guy next to me owns a porsche or exotic pet rather than a gun,wouldnt you?

[lucky wilbury]

:D

[lucky wilbury]

:D :D

[lucky wilbury]

:D :D :D

[Igosplut]

Originally posted by singerman
i'd feel much safer knowing the guy next to me owns a porsche or exotic pet rather than a gun,wouldnt you?

Again, you're basing your beliefs that legal owners of firearms are no better than criminals.....

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Elvis, our own inbred, racist hick.

Makes katydid look like our own local Mensa Chapter





You're a fool.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by ELVIS
You're a fool.

Nicest thing you've ever said to me

:D

[ELVIS]

Anyway, this thread is a waste of bandwidth...

I'm glad I had something better to do today than argue this crap...

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Anyway, this thread is a waste of bandwidth...

I'm glad I had something better to do today than argue this crap...

whatever.

you're so above the fray

pretty funny coming from someone who averages 18.8 posts per day.

[ELVIS]

I said today, not everyday...

[singerman]

Originally posted by Igosplut
Again, you're basing your beliefs that legal owners of firearms are no better than criminals.....

sorry didnt mean to,im just giving an english guys view...we have very strict laws here so its rare for a member of the public to legally own a gun.....so if someone in my street had one...yeah id worry a bit.....and yeah id prefer him to own a porsche.....do you not think that the gun problem in the states has not been helped by having far too many legal guns on the streets in the first place...am i wrong in thinking that at some point most of the guns on the streets of america were once legally owned?.....yeah some have come in from other countries but i would guess most were american owned....please dont slam me down on this point,as i said...it is a guess!

[wraytw]

Ah. I see that you also have a stalker, ELVIS.

[Big Train]

Originally posted by singerman
mmm....well with out having that 'freedom' to own guns we dont need....i feel the U.K has a much better track record than the states or canada with regards gun crime.....i also feel where people have the freedom to own what ever they want, i'd feel much safer knowing the guy next to me owns a porsche or exotic pet rather than a gun,wouldnt you?

It depends on the character of my neighbor, if they are responsible or not. If he drives like an asshole in the middle of the afternoon, or decides to leave his pitbull in his back yard unchained, then I don't feel an inch safer. However, if he has a gun safe, keeps the dog chained and keeps it under F1 speeds, then no problem.

I really don't think the solution has anything to do with the weapons. It has a lot to do with people and how they chose to think. The criminal element in this country is large and brazen and guns are what they chose to use. The weapons they have are almost always illegal, serial numbers filed off. What any of that has to with legal gun owners, i don't know. Legal gun owners WILLINGLY go through all the filing and background checks and use them properly. I think we need to get off their backs and stop using them as a scapegoat.

We have a problem with a pecentage of the American population that have chosen to break the social contract. That percentage does not include 98% of registered gun owners. If it did, why would they register the very weapons they would use in a crime?

[Seshmeister]

The point is that when you have a fight with your neighbor unstead of you just punching one another sometimes someone gets shot.

Most murders are not planned.

[Big Train]

Neither are most car accidents..

So for the exception, we need to have the rule?

[Switch84]

Originally posted by scorpioboy33
in Denver when I lived there they had the Make my day law :(

:D LOL! I was stationed at Lowry Air Force Base when that law was passed in the late 80s! The break-in rate dropped dramatically after that, Scorpio Baby!

:rolleyes: As for the "blame the gun violence on the ******s" stance, FUCK YOU! How droll and pedestrian it is of some white folks to turn a blind eye to their own shadiness and settle for scapegoating! I've seen suburban crime on the rise as affluent parents let their kids run amuck without supervision or home training. The truth is, guns are easily accessible by ANYONE! If I wanted a gun, I could do it the legal way, or bypass that and get it illegally. Have you folks not heard of gun shows and side-bar gun markets and pawn shops? A six year old could get a gun if they wanted one. And some of those deaths are accidental shootings, too; usually two gun-illiterate assbags that don't know the trigger from the barrel.


Stop generalizing, gosh DAMN IT!

FYI: I've lived in Detroit most of my life and NEVER owned a gun. Most of the big city hype is just that....HYPE. A person could get shot, robbed, raped and murdered in an affluent neighborhood just like they could in an inner city one.

[Angel]

Originally posted by singerman
yeah knives are the thing over here....and you have to have a license to own a gun....am i right in thinking that most people in the states and canada own a gun?....and if someone broke into your house.....do you have the right to shoot them?

No, not in Canada!! I DO know a lot of people that own rifles, because they are hunters, but no, the majority of us don't have guns in our homes. If someone breaks into our homes, NO we do NOT have the right to shoot them, unless it is a clear case of self-defense.

When it comes to guns, etc. IMO, we're more like you Brits than we are "Muricans".

Cheers! and by the way, CORRIE is HUGE in Canada!! - but I still want to slap Tracy Barlow across the face! ;)

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by Big Train
Neither are most car accidents..

So for the exception, we need to have the rule?

Yes and the statistics completely prove that.

Why not get rid of airport security because most people don't fly planes into buildings?

[Big Train]

While we are at it, why not outlaw cars as you are hundreds of times more likely to die in a car crash than flying in an airplane?

What your saying is illogical. If we outlawed guns based on that argument, the murders would not decrease as the person in question would just find another means to kill their victim.

[Switch84]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Yes and the statistics completely prove that.

Why not get rid of airport security because most people don't fly planes into buildings?


:D LMAO! Good point! I've always found crossing the street more treacherous and life-threatening than someone 'maybe' having a gun in their belt.

[singerman]

yeah lets get rid of cars and guns!....and everything invented from now on should only have round edges so not to cause injury!

[wraytw]

Heart disease kills the most Americans. I say do away with red meat!!!

[singerman]

Originally posted by wraytw
Heart disease kills the most Americans. I say do away with red meat!!!

i say we increase the amount they eat lol

[scorpioboy33]

well after reading all these brilliant responses I have came to a conclusion...the reason there are so many more gun deaths is obvious...w.ay more guns

[scorpioboy33]

but of course if you feel you need guns...and assault rifles..and bazookas.....or whatever...it's ok I don't live there :) peace and thanks for all the great info

[Seshmeister]

'Fun' Gun factoids..

8 children a day die in murders, suicides and accidents involving guns

Since John F. Kennedy was assasinated more Americans have died from gunshot wounds at home than died in all the wars of the 20th century

Osama bin Laden would need at least nine twin towers like attacks each year to equal what Americans do to themselves every year with guns.

n 1998 (the most recent year for which this data has been compiled), handguns murdered:
373 people in Germany
151 people in Canada
57 people in Australia
19 people in Japan
54 people in England and Wales, and
11,789 people in the United States

Despite popular belief, young children do possess the physical strength to fire a gun: 25% of 3 to 4 year olds, 70% of 5 to 6 year olds, and 90% of 7 to 8 year olds can fire most handguns.
Naureckas, SM, Christoffel, KK, et al. Archives of Pediatrics and Adolescent Medicine, 1995

[ELVIS]

Imagine the cost per gallon of gasoline had these people lived...

[FORD]

Originally posted by wraytw
Heart disease kills the most Americans. I say do away with red meat!!!

Meats can be lean and other healthy things be done to lower cholesterol. How do you lower a gun's ability to kill?

Now on the other hand, smoking cigarettes causes heart disease. I'd support a complete ban on that.

(and kill a major GOP campaign donor in the process, which proves once again that "profits before people" is the real anthem of the Republican party)

[Big Train]

I like how you are selectively against taking away people's freedoms...

Exactly what they ought to do with cigs, red meat,narcotics, firearms...make them all legal and tax the shit out of them, to feed those useless social programs. Nothing makes people stop wanting to do things like taxes....But then we would be Canada....jeez, ANYTHING but that...

[scorpioboy33]

jeez big train you wouldn't want that , peace , harmony with allies, low crime...nah your right your better there

[Big Train]

Na, you can keep the Institutional unemployment, the #2 status, the perpetual lack of innovation....

Just busting your balls Scorp...Canada is a decent place...slightly better than Mexico...

[scorpioboy33]

actually big train I don't mind at all when you bust em cause your fuckin very funny :D

[scorpioboy33]

and Im kinda envious you live in California...kinda always wanted to visit esp. LA...San Fran and silver lake

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by FORD

Now on the other hand, smoking cigarettes causes heart disease. I'd support a complete ban on that.


Non smoking is for homo's.

If we banned guns then whining talentless rock stars couldn't blow their heads off so they would have time to retrain as florists or hairdressers...

[Angel]

Originally posted by Big Train
Na, you can keep the Institutional unemployment, the #2 status, the perpetual lack of innovation....

Please explain what you mean by all this...

[Big Train]

I'm pretty sure it explains itself....F911 even went into the unemployment stuff, it is practically institutional in parts of your country, at rates that would cause bloodshed here.

Lack of innovation. Where are the stream of new technologies and businesses that change the way the world operates?

#2 ness.. There are very few events on the world stage where Canada ever chooses to lead.

These are not meant as insults, just practical facts about our neighbor, that most Americans don't bring up.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Non smoking is for homo's.



I kinda figured a Scot would say that. He probably has his daughter started already. :smoke2:

[Angel]

Originally posted by Big Train
I'm pretty sure it explains itself....F911 even went into the unemployment stuff, it is practically institutional in parts of your country, at rates that would cause bloodshed here.

Lack of innovation. Where are the stream of new technologies and businesses that change the way the world operates?

#2 ness.. There are very few events on the world stage where Canada ever chooses to lead.

These are not meant as insults, just practical facts about our neighbor, that most Americans don't bring up.

I don't have time to respond to this right now... but I will definitely get back to you on this one!

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
I kinda figured a Scot would say that. He probably has his daughter started already. :smoke2:

Twat!

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Angel
I don't have time to respond to this right now... but I will definitely get back to you on this one!

Canada is indeed mediocre. That's OK...somebody has to be. :gulp:

[Angel]

Canada is a good model for where the world needs to go in the 21st
century, says former U.S. President Bill Clinton.
"Canada has proved you can be a model of multiculturalism. That people can
get together, work together, live together, across religious, ethnic and
racial lines," he told Canada AM's Seamus O'Regan in an interview
broadcast Friday.
"You can assimilate new immigrants without losing the fundamental
character of your country. You can be a very old fashioned,
family-oriented, work-oriented country without discriminating against
gays.
"You can be an aggressive country willing to send your military around the
world in the defence of freedom and to stop genocide without, in effect,
ridiculing the United Nations but instead supporting it."
Clinton, in Toronto to promote his biography My Life, mostly supported the
decision by his old golfing buddy, former prime minister Jean Chretien, to
not send troops to Iraq.

[Big Train]

if you believe ANY of that, Bill made a good sale...

[Angel]

The areas where the unemployment is worse is coincidentally areas that have either had a) their fish stocks depleted by US, Asian and European overfishing in our waters. (We had catch limits to try to save the stock, made every one else thing it made them fair game for Cod on East Coast and Salmon on West).

b) Areas that have been impacted by the illegal tariffs placed on trade goods such as softwood lumber.

c) Poor PROVINCIAL leadership and planning.

Here in AB, where unemployment rate is 4.7% (0.7% less than US rate), the provincial government has used our resources wisely, and thus created a strong economy - BC & Ontario have been royally screwed by lousy political leaders - and are now paying the price.

There are actually many areas where we show leadership on the world scene. For example, the organization I work for are leaders in the area of research ethics in the medical field, and have been approached by US counterparts to provide our model for them to follow.

We are still leaders in the medical and bio-tech industries, with new inventions and innovations being released regularly.... Including "items" for your space programs... That "arm thingie" that you see being used on space stations and shuttles is called the "Canadarm" for a reason. Toronto is currently working on a water treatment system using water from Lake Ontario, we already have energy-saving technology that uses sod-roof to reduce need for air conditioning... these are off the top of my head...

MEDIOCRE, no! PROUD not to be you, YES!

[Angel]

Originally posted by Big Train
if you believe ANY of that, Bill made a good sale...

It's stuff I've known for years, didn't have to make any sale. He's just one of the few Americans that takes the time to understand another country, and has his open enough to see just what a great example we are!

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Angel
It's stuff I've known for years, didn't have to make any sale. He's just one of the few Americans that takes the time to understand another country, and has his open enough to see just what a great example we are!

Angel, you have no idea how many Americans are curious and informed about other countries. For 50 years we had a reputation as one of the most multi-cultural, generous, and friendly nations in the world. We've had just 4 years in the wrong direction. Keep to what you know.

[Big Train]

I understand your country well, have gone their every year for the last 13. Hell, I own land in Canada. It's a decent place, never did I call it a shithole. My aim here was to point out that Canada is not perfect. Your unemployment rates as a whole (let's not split hairs as provinces) are at a rate unacceptable for US citizens.

Your examples above are the exceptions that prove the rule. I wasn't trying to pick a fight, just getting tired of the Canadien moral superiority trip. I'm glad that your "proud" not to be American.....I bite my tongue...

[Angel]

I didn't say I'm proud not to be American, I said I'm proud to be Canadian. (and Proud not to be BBB!) Of course it's not perfect, there isn't a place that is!

For 50 years we had a reputation as one of the most multi-cultural, generous, and friendly nations in the world.

Actually no, you're not a multi-cultural nation, you're a melting pot. There is a big difference! Generous, yes, I would NEVER argue that one - friendly? I'm not sure about that! If that's the case, how come about 20 years ago (if not longer) US tourists in Europe started wearing maple leaf pins in an attempt to make shop-keepers think they were from Canada? It didn't work though, the lack of terms such as please, thank you, excuse me, and I'm sorry is how many in Europe tell the difference between an American and a Canadian!

Anyway, it's Friday, and I'm going home now. Have a great weekend all of you, except Brian, I hope the gerbil he shoves up his ass finds its way to his brain. ;)

[Angel]

Originally posted by Big Train
I understand your country well, have gone their every year for the last 13. Hell, I own land in Canada. It's a decent place, never did I call it a shithole. My aim here was to point out that Canada is not perfect. Your unemployment rates as a whole (let's not split hairs as provinces) are at a rate unacceptable for US citizens.

If you understand Canada well, then you would understand that looking at regions or provinces is not splitting hairs, they're all run independently depending on their politics. Unemployment as a whole, I believe, is at 7%. Still not good, but until they find a way to solve the East Coast problem, it will remain high!! I believe they're also having problems with Quebec on that one.

[Big Train]

If I am looking at NATIONAL unemployment rates,which I am, it matters. If I wanted to split hairs, then I would join you.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Angel
I didn't say I'm proud not to be American, I said I'm proud to be Canadian. (and Proud not to be BBB!)

You'll go to bed thinking of me, you'll dream of me, and then you'll wake up thinking of me. Sweet dreams, babycakes. ;) :gulp:

[tyler412]

most gun deaths are from illegal guns !!! ive own many guns and they are registered and my 5 year old and 11 year old know how too shoot them. i couldnt imagine not having a gun in these times we live in.
i believe if u dont protect yourself against a crime and it happens against u then u deserve it.