Kerry FUCKED up BIG TIME

[BigBadBrian]

He is visibly flustered and pissed off. Bush had him rattled about the 87B funding after Kerry was bragging about being the one to lead America's troops. :D

[rustoffa]

The piece of shit just suggested we "contracted out" the containment of Tora Bora.

Fuck it, I'm speechless.

[John Ashcroft]

I'm actually very unhappy about the tone of questioning.

So far it's "Senator Kerry, please feel free to elaborate on your anti-war propaganda."

And "President Bush, what do you have to say about that?"

I mean, it's all about defending the war in Iraq, with question about "whether the casualties are worth it" or not, and no questions on Kerry's multi-lateral stand on every fucking single issue. I mean, at least have a follow up with Kerry asking if he feels the contributions of the nations already supporting us, and sacrificing their citizens, should be belittled as "window-dressing".

Fuck I hate the press! The good thing is, the American public is on to their bullshit. And good old Dan Rather pretty much locked the perception down.

I predict (just like Limbaugh) that the press will be going bananas over Kerry's "performance" tonight. And that's because the line of questioning allowed him to give them exactly what they wanted. And that's a platform to spew un-substantiated, anti-war bullshit (just like he did in the 70's, of which much of the same crowd in the press were applauding him then).

Thank God the American public is smarter than the press gives credit. I guess they used to get away with this shit, but those days are long gone.

[John Ashcroft]

To support my point, it's already starting. Take a look at this:

Bush, Kerry Clash Over Iraq at First Debate

CORAL GABLES, Fla. (Reuters) - President Bush and Democrat John Kerry clashed over Bush's Iraq policy on Thursday in a high-stakes presidential debate seen as critical to Kerry closing the gap with his opponent.

Kerry quickly jumped on the attack against Bush in the first -- and possibly most important -- of three presidential debates scheduled over the next two weeks.

He accused Bush of rushing to war and being diverted from defeating al Qaeda and finding Osama bin Laden, saying, "Iraq was not even close to the center of the war on terror before the president invaded it."

While it is important to be strong and resolute, "we also have to be smart," he said.

"This president has made, I regret to say, a colossal error of judgment, and judgment is what we look for in the president of the United States of America," Kerry said.

Bush, holding a modest yet persistent lead in the polls with less than five weeks until the Nov. 2 election, defended his decision to go to war as necessary to take on what he viewed as a threat in the post-Sept. 11 world.

He said Kerry saw the same intelligence as he did on alleged weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and that as far as bin Laden was concerned, the al Qaeda leader was isolated. He accused Kerry of sending "mixed signals" with shifting positions on Iraq.

"I don't see how you can lead this country to succeed in Iraq if you say 'wrong war. wrong place.' What message does that send our troops, what message does that send to our allies, what message does that send to the Iraqis? No, the way to win this is to be steadfast and resolved," said Bush.

Kerry shot back: "Yes, we have to be steadfast and resolved, and I am, and I will succeed for those troops now that we're there. We have to succeed. We can't leave a failed Iraq. But that doesn't mean it wasn't a mistake of judgment to go there and keep the focus off Osama bin Laden."

FIRST LOOK

The 90-minute debate at the University of Miami had a television audience of perhaps 50 million or 60 million people and offered Americans their first look at the candidates slugging it out in person rather than through stump speeches and television ads.

The Bush campaign's contention was that if Bush held his own and the debate was basically a draw, then the advantage would go to the president and put him on the way to re-election.

Kerry's camp was looking for a breakthrough that would allow Kerry to connect with Americans and be seen as an effective alternative to the incumbent, a critical test for a presidential challenger.

The debate played out against a backdrop of mushrooming violence in Iraq that raised doubts about Bush's contention that progress is being made in Iraq.

Insurgents detonated three car bombs near a U.S. military convoy in Baghdad on Thursday, and most of the 41 dead were children. U.S. forces then launched a major offensive on the rebel stronghold of Samarra.

"In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough," Bush said. "It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. You know why? Because the enemy understands the stakes."

Kerry, asked what errors Bush had made in the war on terrorism, asked, "Where do you want me to begin?"

Public opinion polls consistently give Bush the lead in the race and show him competitive in several states that Democrat Al Gore won in 2000. Kerry campaign officials said their internal data showed the race basically tied.

Link:
here (http://news.myway.com/top/article/id/51405|top|09-30-2004::21:46|reuters.html)

Now, check the bolded text. Tell me just what side the author's on. Nice interjection, fuckwad! It's basically a setup, giving the liberals in the press exactly what they want to run tomorrow's stories (and dicks like this won't even wait 'till tomorrow).

I'm extremely pleased with the way the President is handling this attack, but I'm also extremely pissed that the attack is taking place at all.

[crzefrmtheatgrl]

bush keept going "uhhhhh.................... uh.........um. yeah" thats just juvinile

KERRY ROCKED THE HOUSE!!!!!! :D

[rustoffa]

Don't forget Kerry's "someone's shining a q-beam on my tan in a can" persuasiveness.

Just mind numbing.....you could see the wheels turning.

It almost resembled sign language at one point.

[tobinentinc]

I thought it was pretty even. The only reason people will say Kerry had the edge, was because of the questioning.

[John Ashcroft]

I don't believe at all the Kerry "Rocked the house".

If you were an anti-Busher before, you got what you wanted. But did he convince America that his behavior is just? I don't think so. Especially considering we're commited, and saying stuff like "It's the wrong war at the wrong time" (after urging Clinton to take Saddam out earlier) doesn't make the public feel comfortable in his "commitment to the troops".

[John Ashcroft]

And I'm not alone with my assessment of the questioning. It's apparently already pissed others off already...

Lehrer Stacks Deck Against Bush

Presidential debate moderator Jim Lehrer showed once again Thursday night why top aides to President Clinton used to call him "our moderator" when presidential debate time rolled around in 1996.

The questions, which Lehrer announced at the outset had been authored exclusively by him, were supposed to help the American people determine which candidate would be a better steward of U.S. national security in a post-9/11 world.

But there were no queries to Sen. Kerry about his long Senate record of voting against defense appropriations; or his sponsorship of a bill to cut CIA funding by 6 billion dollars a year after terrorists struck the World Trade Center in 1993; or Kerry's support of the nuclear freeze movement during the height of the Cold War.
Kerry wasn't asked why he teamed up with Jane Fonda to protest the Vietnam War while his band of brothers were still on the battlefield, or why he met with enemy leaders in Paris, or why he accused fellow soldiers of being "monsters" and "war criminals."

Most Americans would consider the answers to those questions extremely relevant to the selection of any U.S. commander-in-chief during a time of war.

But not Jim Lehrer. Instead, he focused on Iraq with question after question that suggested Bush had blown it.

Here's a sampling:

"You said there was a miscalculation in Iraq," Lehrer asked the president. "What was it and how did it happen?"

"What colossal misjudgments, in your opinion," Lehrer asked Kerry, "has President Bush made in these areas [Iraq]?"

To Bush: "Mr. President, has Iraq been worth the cost in American lives -10,052 - I mean 1,052 up to today?"

To Kerry: "You've repeatedly accused President Bush of lying to the American people on Iraq. Give us some examples of the president being untruthful on Iraq?"

Despite his focus on Iraq, however, Lehrer never asked why Kerry voted to authorize the war, then turned around and voted against the legislation to fund it. Or why he voted against authorization for the first Gulf War, even though President Bush's father had amassed just the kind of coalition Kerry says the U.S. needs now.

Likewise, the PBS host declined to ask Kerry about comments in recent days from French and German officials who announced they have no intention of sending troops to Iraq, even if Kerry is elected.

That's quite a stunning development, given that Kerry's Iraq policy rests almost solely on the promise that he'll persuade Old Europe to pitch in and take some of the load off U.S. forces.

But not stunning enough, apparently, to interest Mr. Lehrer.


Link: here (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/9/30/223850.shtml)

[FORD]

Kerry led the debate the whole way, there's no question.

Junior was on the defensive, he was sweating, his jaw was clenching, and his face got red, he was so visibly pissed when Kerry called him out, and all he could do was push the stupid flip flopper crap.

Best part of the debate: When Kerry said Nuclear Proliferation was the greatest threat in the world today.... and Junior stumbled over the issue...

Because the dumb son of a bitch can't say "Nuclear" :D

[Seshmeister]

John I haven't seen this debate yet but jeez are you saying you don't want to allow people to quiz your president? It's called democracy.

I'm no Kerry supporter either but asking why someone did or did not support Jane Fonda 30 years ago is less relevant than asking about Bush snorting coke and drinking like a maniac for many years.

The conduct of the war was a fuck up which no doubt history will agree on in the future. Whether you agree with going in or not someone fucked up big time on what was to happen when we won. I'm not saying that was Bush although if he wants to claim credit as C-in-C then he has to take the flack.

Where did all the insurgents come from?

The borders should have been secured.

The US military is outstanding at killing people but don't seem to be too hot on dealing with the aftermath.

Cheers!

:gulp:

[lesfunk]

The questions were extremely stacked against the President.
Kerry did a better job than I expected. He was articulate and well prepared.
I still ain't voting for him

[Rikk]

Originally posted by FORD
Kerry led the debate the whole way, there's no question.

Junior was on the defensive, he was sweating, his jaw was clenching, and his face got red, he was so visibly pissed when Kerry called him out, and all he could do was push the stupid flip flopper crap.

Best part of the debate: When Kerry said Nuclear Proliferation was the greatest threat in the world today.... and Junior stumbled over the issue...

Because the dumb son of a bitch can't say "Nuclear" :D

I agree 100%. I don't know what debate some of these other people were watching. Kerry came off 100 times better. Kerry answered every question asked of him. And I can say I now 100% realize every stance he has on things. All Bush referred to over and over was: "We will protect you." Good job so far.:rolleyes: Bringing up that Iraq was handled badly was the perfect tactic for Kerry. Bringing up the fact that the military is locked down from doing anything else during this so-called time of protection was perfect. And at least Kerry spoke succinctly in every question asked of him. Bush stumbled, must have used about 1000 "uh"s, and also just repeated the same answer for half the questions.

Funny thing is, this was supposed to be the debate Bush was going to win. The next two are a shoe-in for Kerry. I mean...the economy? Bush really can't weasel his way out of that one, can he?

These debates will hopefully add that extra edge to the numbers. If the debates are significant at all, Bush will lose. He fucked up big time tonight.

Reminded me a lot of Clinton vs. Senior in 1992.

[HELLVIS]

I do believe I heard Kerry say he supports proliferation.
Can't wait to see the transcripts.

[Matt White]

JOHN KERRY handed President Bush his ASS in his HAT.

DAVE OR THE GRAVE BABY!!!

[Seshmeister]

Forgive my ignorance but how did Gore manage to lose a debate against someone so obviously incompetant as Bush?

[Rikk]

Originally posted by Matt White
JOHN KERRY handed President Bush his ASS in his HAT.

DAVE OR THE GRAVE BABY!!!

Yup!

Now if only Dave were to come back with the biggest album of his career. That would make this a perfect year!!:D

[Rikk]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Forgive my ignorance but how did Gore manage to lose a debate against someone so obviously incompetant as Bush?

I can't believe I'm saying this...but Gore simply did not come off as strongly as Kerry did tonight. Kerry did a complete 180. He's really on the ball now. The new campaign advisors are definitely doing their jobs and he definitely did this debate on a full night's sleep.

Of course, Gore didn't have as much fuel on Bush in 2000. At least Kerry has the fuel to hand the American people's Bush's track-record and multiple lies.

[Matt White]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Forgive my ignorance but how did Gore manage to lose a debate against someone so obviously incompetant as Bush?

AL GORE=WOODEN MAN. President Bush, while not the most articulate speaker, is actually a VERY good debater. The 3 debates will MEAN something to this election, unlike in years past. neither candidate will make a HUGE mistake and mis-speak, giving the other side ammo.
And remember, these debates are aimed at the UNDECIDED voters. The partisans CANNOT be budged on EITHER side.

FUCK YOU Van Hagar!!!

[MAX]

Horseshit or "Sheepshit" in my stellar friend Rikk's case. :) Kerry blew ass and I cannot fucking wait for the scorecard on how many times the fuck contradicted himself.

Bush shouldn't have even been there cos Kerry could have debated his "positions" all night with himself.

[ODShowtime]

BUSH:

"I understand how hard it is to commit troops. Never wanted to commit troops. When I was running -- when we had the debate in 2000, never dreamt I'd be doing that. But the enemy attacked us ... and I have a solemn duty to protect the American people, to do everything I can to protect us."

"But a president must always be willing to use troops. It must - as a last resort."

KERRY:

"The president just said something extraordinarily revealing and frankly very important in this debate. In answer to your question about Iraq and sending people into Iraq, he just said, 'The enemy attacked us.' Saddam Hussein didn't attack us. Osama bin Laden attacked us. Al-Qaida attacked us."

[Rikk]

Originally posted by MAX
Horseshit or "Sheepshit" in my stellar friend Rikk's case. :) Kerry blew ass and I cannot fucking wait for the scorecard on how many times the fuck contradicted himself.

Bush shouldn't have even been there cos Kerry could have debated his "positions" all night with himself.

SHEEP!!!:D

But anyway, I guess you watched a different debate. I've never seen one man answer so many different questions with a single answer ("we'll protect you") than Bush did tonight. He lied his ass off over and over, he stumbled through his answers over and over. He avoided many questions by talking about "terror" and "weapons of mass destruction"...and he even had the nerve to talk about being a world leader when flat-out stating that he didn't care what other countries think. In this time of international economy and shaky politics (and phoenixes like China rising up), that's a very reckless thing to say. I'm glad the media's general concencus was that Kerry surprisingly won this particular debate. Bush came across worse than I even imagined.

I feel good about this election again.

Oh, and MAX...see! We can debate like this! And we're still friends!!

SHEEP PEN...Tongue must go in!:mad:

[Rikk]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
BUSH:

"I understand how hard it is to commit troops. Never wanted to commit troops. When I was running -- when we had the debate in 2000, never dreamt I'd be doing that. But the enemy attacked us ... and I have a solemn duty to protect the American people, to do everything I can to protect us."

"But a president must always be willing to use troops. It must - as a last resort."

KERRY:

"The president just said something extraordinarily revealing and frankly very important in this debate. In answer to your question about Iraq and sending people into Iraq, he just said, 'The enemy attacked us.' Saddam Hussein didn't attack us. Osama bin Laden attacked us. Al-Qaida attacked us."

Bingo.

Also funny how Kerry was able to quote Bush's dad on why invading Baghdad would cause anarchy and provide America with a "no-exit solution." Junior could just sit and sweat.:)

[HELLVIS]

Originally posted by Rikk
Kerry answered every question asked of him. Bush stumbled, must have used about 1000 "uh"s, and also just repeated the same answer for half the questions.

Kerry answered about half the questions asked of him. Those questions, by the way, seemed to be lobbed to him like a pitch at a senior citizens special olympics.
Of course I'll admit that old George did seem to have his usual difficulty wrangling sentences without the constant use of "uh".

As far as using the same answers repeatedly, I recall Kerry giving the "tax break" answer several unrelated questions in a row.

[Rikk]

I must note that FORD, ELVIS and DR. LOVE must really have their work cut out for them modding this board after a debate!!! I can't even imagine how packed this room will be on election night!!!

[ELVIS]

Let's see...

Kerry said Saddam was not a threat, then later in the debate he said Saddam was a threat...

Bush won...


:elvis:

[Matt White]

President Bush sure LOOKED like he didn't want to be there. And I sure got the message that he thinks JOHN KERRY contradicts himself, it's the Presidents campaign slogan.
JOHN KERRY seemed to be saying the same thing I've heard all along, that he can do better. The President seemed more concerned with trying to define JOHN KERRY than defining his own polices or decisions.

DAVE OR THE GRAVE BABY!!!

[Rikk]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Let's see...

Kerry said Saddam was not a threat, then later in the debate he said Saddam was a threat...

Bush won...


:elvis:

Bush lost!

But I think you're great anyway, Elvis.:D

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
John I haven't seen this debate yet but jeez are you saying you don't want to allow people to quiz your president? It's called democracy.

I'm no Kerry supporter either but asking why someone did or did not support Jane Fonda 30 years ago is less relevant than asking about Bush snorting coke and drinking like a maniac for many years.

The conduct of the war was a fuck up which no doubt history will agree on in the future. Whether you agree with going in or not someone fucked up big time on what was to happen when we won. I'm not saying that was Bush although if he wants to claim credit as C-in-C then he has to take the flack.

Where did all the insurgents come from?

The borders should have been secured.

The US military is outstanding at killing people but don't seem to be too hot on dealing with the aftermath.

Cheers!

:gulp:

and with that you get my vote shesh

[ELVIS]

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20041001/capt.flgh11110010253.debate_flgh111.jpg
Bush controls the John Kerry robot by remote control.

[Rikk]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
and with that you get my vote shesh

Sesh got my vote ages ago.:)

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Let's see...

Kerry said Saddam was not a threat, then later in the debate he said Saddam was a threat...

Bush won...


:elvis:

Mr E the debate wasn't going to effect your voting even if Bush had got his cock out and stuffed it into microphone while screaming fuck you Jesus, Sammy Hagar is the son of god!

All that matters is how it plays to the 30% who watched of the 10% of voters that actually decide this thing.

Cheers!

:gulp:

[lesfunk]

Those t.v. people are analyzing this into the ground.
Bottom line.. Kerry came off better than Bush in this thing.
I still ain't voting for him

[HELLVIS]

Originally posted by Rikk


Reminded me a lot of Clinton vs. Senior in 1992.

Please, the debate I saw was fucking weak on both sides...not a shadow of the Clinton debates.

Clinton=unrehearsed, very smooth, and charismatic
Kerry=very rehearsed, stiff and nervous, never looked at the camera until the end

Bush H.W.=presidential, well spoken
Bush W.=not commanding, not well spoken

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Rikk
Bingo.

Also funny how Kerry was able to quote Bush's dad on why invading Baghdad would cause anarchy and provide America with a "no-exit solution." Junior could just sit and sweat.:)

I was at the bar, but that quote stuck out on yahoo. Just heard on television gw say "in this war on terror, you must be resolute or you won't win and we must win"

Shut up. You and your cabal made this war you lying fool. thousands dead, millions squandered and alliances dashed and freedoms lost. fuck gw

[rustoffa]

Originally posted by John Ashcroft
And I'm not alone with my assessment of the questioning. It's apparently already pissed others off already...

Lehrer Stacks Deck Against Bush

Link: here (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/9/30/223850.shtml)

Pick your poison.

It's grate to refer to "the big three". Not like "The big three killed my baby", but kinda like that.

Stacked deck indeed, we were blessed with Rather's post-debate drivel. It's like listening to a fucking ransom note.

CBS, NBC, CBS.....yeah, Fox News woulda been sooooo much better.

That's not in Murdoch's fence-riding wallet.

It's all the rage to parade apathetic policies around the globe at this point. Ground rules my ass, Lehrer is the journalistic equivalent of Kerry being moderated by Hannity on the fucking Discovery channel.

Put on your 3-d glasses.....turn the volume down.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by lesfunk
Those t.v. people are analyzing this into the ground.
Bottom line.. Kerry came off better than Bush in this thing.
I still ain't voting for him


Les your opinion is as irrelevant as mine because CT will vote Democrat or am I wrong...?

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by HELLVIS
Please, the debate I saw was fucking weak on both sides...not a shadow of the Clinton debates.

Clinton=unrehearsed, very smooth, and charismatic
Kerry=very rehearsed, stiff and nervous, never looked at the camera until the end

Bush H.W.=presidential, well spoken
Bush W.=not commanding, not well spoken

Clinton was an absolutely outstanding politician whether you agree with his policies, actions, morality or not. One of the best I have ever seen.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Forgive my ignorance but how did Gore manage to lose a debate against someone so obviously incompetant as Bush?

He didn't.

The mediawhores proclaimed Junior the winner, but he was just as brainless in the 2000 debates as he was in this one.

The whores supposedly turned on Gore because at one point he was laughing at one of Junior's ridiculous responses.

I say the corporate whores knew who they were going to root for all along.

[Rikk]

Originally posted by HELLVIS
Please, the debate I saw was fucking weak on both sides...not a shadow of the Clinton debates.

Clinton=unrehearsed, very smooth, and charismatic
Kerry=very rehearsed, stiff and nervous, never looked at the camera until the end

Bush H.W.=presidential, well spoken
Bush W.=not commanding, not well spoken

Again, I totally disagree.

I think Kerry wasn't as charismatic as Bush. But tonight the real Bush came through (the idiot who realizes he won't win arguments by just talking about freedom and terror...he's used to having other Republicans clapping for him every time he brings up those handy words). Furthermore, Kerry DID answer the questions asked of him. Until tonight, I wasn't ever personally sure where Kerry stood on the issues. He logically explained them to me. Bush was asked OVER and OVER why he lied about certain things. He didn't answer any of the questions and basically struck out with a big "fuck you" to the other nations. It was retarded. I really didn't think Bush would do this badly.

Kerry's biggest mistake: as you say, he should have looked at the camera more. Still, in a way it made him seem even more sincere.

This debate pleased me greatly.

[lesfunk]

You are probably right about CT going Democrat. But it is not cast in stone.
I still feel that my vote is slightly more relevant than your's Sesh, since I actually get one and alas, you do not.

[Rikk]

Originally posted by FORD
He didn't.

The mediawhores proclaimed Junior the winner, but he was just as brainless in the 2000 debates as he was in this one.

The whores supposedly turned on Gore because at one point he was laughing at one of Junior's ridiculous responses.

I say the corporate whores knew who they were going to root for all along.

Yes, and some of these corporate whores aren't as willing to play ball this time around.

Furthermore, people in this country are really scared now. And what's even worse is they're scared of their President. The turnout will be much bigger this time, and I really think a lot of usual non-voters will come out of their homes to kick out the President they're afraid of.

Man, it's sad how divided the United States is right now.

[ODShowtime]

shesh I'll sell you my vote for 200 Euros however much that is.

[Matt White]

Originally posted by ELVIS
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20041001/capt.flgh11110010253.debate_flgh111.jpg
Bush controls the John Kerry robot by remote control.

So, was Dick Cheney in the rafters pulling the strings of the Dubya marrionette?!?!?:lol: :bananna: :lol:

ROTH ON!!!!

[rustoffa]

Originally posted by Rikk
I really think a lot of usual non-voters will come out of their homes to kick out the President they're afraid of.


They gotta put the slippers on first.
:D

[lesfunk]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
shesh I'll sell you my vote for 200 Euros however much that is.
Fuck, I'll sell him my vote for that!

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
shesh I'll sell you my vote for 200 Euros however much that is.

$200 or so I think.

We never signed up for the Euro.

Democracy's were designed by the greeks for electorates of 20 000 people. I'm not sure the systems work any more.

Not that I have a better idea apart from your insane lack of funding regulations.

Cheers!

:gulp:

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Seshmeister

Democracy's were designed by the greeks for electorates of 20 000 people. I'm not sure the systems work any more.

Cheers!

:gulp:

its MONEY not people, money is important. cheers yes...

[HELLVIS]

Come on Rikk, you're kidding ....right? You might want to read the transcript, he answered several questions in a row early in the debate with some drivel about tax brakes. Of course, as you stated, Bush relied on "I'll protect you, stay the course".

Kerry looked like he was reading cue cards. I promise he won't do that shit again. It's the first thing his handlers are going to work on. It's common knowledge that you should look into the camera. It makes you look much more honest. It's like eye contact.

[rustoffa]

Ummm....it's a "Republic".

[HELLVIS]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
$200 or so I think.

We never signed up for the Euro.

Democracy's were designed by the greeks for electorates of 20 000 people. I'm not sure the systems work any more.

Not that I have a better idea apart from your insane lack of funding regulations.

Cheers!

:gulp:

I don't live in a democracy. I live in a republic.

[HELLVIS]

Fuck, you type faster than me Rustoffa!

[Kristy]

I'd like to see the polls nationwide on what the American public thought.

[HELLVIS]

Originally posted by rustoffa
They gotta put the slippers on first.
:D

They sure as hell won't put on their work boots. They don't fucking work!

[Ally_Kat]

The thing I didn't like was Kerry saying that he would sit down with Kim and get the entire nuke thing settled. There are other countries involved who have a huge interest in this because they are next door neighbors with North Korea, and Kerry wants to do it just him and Kim. Eh...I'd say continue the multi-nation talk.

[HELLVIS]

Rustoffa, did you think either of these guys looked impressive?

[Matt White]

From AOL:
Who won the debate?
John Kerry 53%
George Bush 47%
Did it change the candidate you support?
No 72%
Yes, I now support Kerry 18%
Yes, I now support Bush 10%
Total Votes: 271,690
Note on Poll Results

I watched the debate with a buddy from college (a DIE-HARD REPUBLICAN) who was PISSED right out of the gate. "Their making KERRY LOOK TALLER THAN BUSH!!! ON PURPOSE!!!" I think that will be addressed in the next debate.

DAVE OR THE GRAVE BABY!!

[HELLVIS]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
The thing I didn't like was Kerry saying that he would sit down with Kim and get the entire nuke thing settled. There are other countries involved who have a huge interest in this because they are next door neighbors with North Korea, and Kerry wants to do it just him and Kim. Eh...I'd say continue the multi-nation talk.

Funny in one part of the debate, Kerry accuses Bush of going it alone.
Then later in the same debate, says to blow off china and 4 other nations. What the fuck? Sounds like a flip flop to me.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
and with that you get my vote shesh

Tremendous news!

All I need o do now is move to the US, take an insane amount of steroids and hit the gym. When the Seshmistress leaves me because my dick has shrunk to the size of a chipolata I'll leave her and marry someone from the US political elite, build an acting career based on the my unique ability of not being able to act and sell my soul to big business.

Hey give it 15 years and I'll be at least a Governor...:)

Cheers!

:gulp:

[rustoffa]

Originally posted by HELLVIS
They sure as hell won't put on their work boots. They don't fucking work!

So, it's like the mysterious closet faction that's gonna rock the vote is some kinda fucking "pay for play" shite?

[FORD]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Mr E the debate wasn't going to effect your voting even if Bush had got his cock out and stuffed it into microphone while screaming fuck you Jesus, Sammy Hagar is the son of god!

:

Considering Sammy's given him $2000 and Jesus hasn't contributed to his campaign, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if that happens in the next debate.

[HELLVIS]

He is taller.

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by lesfunk
Those t.v. people are analyzing this into the ground.


that's what theyare paid to do and they'll put their own personal view on it. And you wouldn't believe how many peopel will believe their view instead of making their own. That's why I don't even watch that crap. Just watch/listen to the guys that mattered in this and then turned it off.

[HELLVIS]

Teach 'em girl.

[Matt White]

Originally posted by HELLVIS
He is taller.

Right, but wasn't that a stipulation in a past debate: the guy stood on a raised step so he didn't LOOK short on TV? He thought it gave JOHN KERRY an advantage, like some RUBE at home was gonna be impressed.


DAVE OR THE GRAVE BABY!!

[Seshmeister]

Someone told me that the Bush camp had insisted that the temperature in the room had to be 70 degrees because they knew Kerry sweats a lot.

Is that true?

[FORD]

Originally posted by Matt White
"Their making KERRY LOOK TALLER THAN BUSH!!! ON PURPOSE!!!"

Damn shrink rays.... :rolleyes:

[HELLVIS]

PINK!!!!!!!!!!
I know you're out the lurking. Come all the way in and enlighten us!

[rustoffa]

Originally posted by HELLVIS
Rustoffa, did you think either of these guys looked impressive?

Fuck, It's unsafe at any speed. I get all nervous about the politicians in general.

The tall, gangly, podium-humping one seemed like he had a few mitochondria in the legume gallery.

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by Rikk

Kerry's biggest mistake: as you say, he should have looked at the camera more. Still, in a way it made him seem even more sincere.


Not really. Not being able to look someone in the eye usually means that you are either lying, fearful to take a direct look, or trying to hide something.

I guarantee that'll be fixed before the next one. If not, people will start to notice that and it could affect him.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Someone told me that the Bush camp had insisted that the temperature in the room had to be 70 degrees because they knew Kerry sweats a lot.

Is that true?

Yep, it's true. Junior wanted it nice and toasty like his home in Hell.

The ironicy here is that I saw Junior wiping the sweat off his forehead a lot more than Kerry :D

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
that's what theyare paid to do and they'll put their own personal view on it. And you wouldn't believe how many peopel will believe their view instead of making their own. That's why I don't even watch that crap. Just watch/listen to the guys that mattered in this and then turned it off.

But if journalists got to cross examine them more often then it would all even out over time.

Politicians here get total shit constantly and that's a good thing IMHO.

[HELLVIS]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Someone told me that the Bush camp had insisted that the temperature in the room had to be 70 degrees because they knew Kerry sweats a lot.

Is that true?

If that were true, and if Kerry's tan were real, then he'd likely get a chill.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
Not really. Not being able to look someone in the eye usually means that you are either lying, fearful to take a direct look, or trying to hide something.

I guarantee that'll be fixed before the next one. If not, people will start to notice that and it could affect him.

Since FAUX was running the cameras, they probably told him to look at the wrong one, purposely.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by FORD
Yep, it's true. Junior wanted it nice and toasty like his home in Hell.

The ironicy here is that I saw Junior wiping the sweat off his forehead a lot more than Kerry :D

Ironicy...

LMAO it's been a few weeks since anyone has used that here.

Grate!

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by Matt White
Right, but wasn't that a stipulation in a past debate: the guy stood on a raised step so he didn't LOOK short on TV? He thought it gave JOHN KERRY an advantage, like some RUBE at home was gonna be impressed.


DAVE OR THE GRAVE BABY!!

Actually, history in all this follows that it is more likely for the taller to be more favored.

For some reason, Americans like the taller canidate.

I know, I know, go figure.

[HELLVIS]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
Not really. Not being able to look someone in the eye usually means that you are either lying, fearful to take a direct look, or trying to hide something.

I guarantee that'll be fixed before the next one. If not, people will start to notice that and it could affect him.

I already covered that a few posts ago. But, I'm glad to see that you agree.

[HELLVIS]

Originally posted by FORD
Since FAUX was running the cameras, they probably told him to look at the wrong one, purposely.

I guess that would make Kerry pretty stupid as well. I mean, did they tell him that his camera was to his right and in the floor?

[Rikk]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
that's what theyare paid to do and they'll put their own personal view on it. And you wouldn't believe how many peopel will believe their view instead of making their own. That's why I don't even watch that crap. Just watch/listen to the guys that mattered in this and then turned it off.

See, that's what's funny. Republicans are happy to listen to the media when FOX NEWS reports that Intelligence is trustworthy or Kerry lied about his war conduct. But then Republicans will get angry and turn off their TVs when the general concencus from respected and unbiased political analysts is that Bush lost.

He lost, folks. I know it's hard to believe. And obviously no debate was going to change your minds (or mine). But Bush really fucked up tonight. He was MUCH worse than he was in 2000.

[HELLVIS]

Originally posted by FORD
Yep, it's true. Junior wanted it nice and toasty like his home in Hell.
:D

Well, I guess since they denied Bush's request for the floor covering to be entrails of the damned, that was the best that they could do.

[rustoffa]

Originally posted by HELLVIS
I guess that would make Kerry pretty stupid as well. I mean, did they tell him that his camera was to his right and in the floor?

Kerry's no Citizen Kane.
:D

[HELLVIS]

However, that is what I'm working my clawed toes into right now. It's good to be home!

[rustoffa]

Paralleliums!

[Dr. Love]

Originally posted by FORD
Considering Sammy's given him $2000 and Jesus hasn't contributed to his campaign, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if that happens in the next debate.

Completely off topic, but at the Van Hagar show in Dallas, they changed the Right Now video up a bit.

The part that used to say (and I realize most of you won't know what I'm talking about) "Right Now is too expensive to live with regret" and then showed a picture of condoms said:

"Right Now is too expensive to live with regret" and showed a picture of President Bush.


In regard to these two clowns, I don't want to vote for either one of them. I wish there were more viable options.

[HELLVIS]

Good lookin' dog in the avitar. Pit, staff, what?

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
But if journalists got to cross examine them more often then it would all even out over time.

Politicians here get total shit constantly and that's a good thing IMHO.

Nawh, I'm not talking about the debate part. I'm talking where the so-called political experts get to sit and explain what just happened and put an impression on what actually went on as if we didn't just see it.

Like for example, even though it's a scientific fact about the no-eye contact thing and lying, people might think it's sincere or he was being modest, or some other thing they get out of it. After forming that opinion, the anaylist might go, "blah blah blah and Kerry's no eye contact was a bad move. It suggest lying and he really shouldn't do that if he wishes to gain the trust of the American people." It can then make someone sitting at home to think that Kerry lied, when they heard it and thought something different.

And people buy that crap, too. And they'll spend all night and tomorrow analyizing this until we are all sick of it.

Me, I think that's just how he talks, just like some people say, "uh". I do it sometimes too (the eye thing). Too much eye contact makes me uncomfortable.

[HELLVIS]

BOONDOCK SAINTS

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by HELLVIS
I already covered that a few posts ago. But, I'm glad to see that you agree.

Sorry! The thread's moving so fast :o

[Rikk]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
Nawh, I'm not talking about the debate part. I'm talking where the so-called political experts get to sit and explain what just happened and put an impression on what actually went on as if we didn't just see it.

Like for example, even though it's a scientific fact about the no-eye contact thing and lying, people might think it's sincere or he was being modest, or some other thing they get out of it. After forming that opinion, the anaylist might go, "blah blah blah and Kerry's no eye contact was a bad move. It suggest lying and he really shouldn't do that if he wishes to gain the trust of the American people." It can then make someone sitting at home to think that Kerry lied, when they heard it and thought something different.

And people buy that crap, too. And they'll spend all night and tomorrow analyizing this until we are all sick of it.

Me, I think that's just how he talks, just like some people say, "uh". I do it sometimes too (the eye thing). Too much eye contact makes me uncomfortable.

I do agree that the media takes a ridiculous spin on things. They often ignore completely what was important: WHAT WAS SAID.

That said, almost every analyst I listened to after the debate used quotes and discussed viewpoints and agreed that Bush's arguments were definitely the shakiest.

[HELLVIS]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
Sorry! The thread's moving so fast :o

Don't be sorry. You rock!!!

[rustoffa]

Originally posted by HELLVIS
Good lookin' dog in the avitar. Pit, staff, what?

Thanks bro!
It's ZEBO!

5 stars coming up!

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
Nawh, I'm not talking about the debate part. I'm talking where the so-called political experts get to sit and explain what just happened and put an impression on what actually went on as if we didn't just see it.

Like for example, even though it's a scientific fact about the no-eye contact thing and lying, people might think it's sincere or he was being modest, or some other thing they get out of it. After forming that opinion, the anaylist might go, "blah blah blah and Kerry's no eye contact was a bad move. It suggest lying and he really shouldn't do that if he wishes to gain the trust of the American people." It can then make someone sitting at home to think that Kerry lied, when they heard it and thought something different.

And people buy that crap, too. And they'll spend all night and tomorrow analyizing this until we are all sick of it.

Me, I think that's just how he talks, just like some people say, "uh". I do it sometimes too (the eye thing). Too much eye contact makes me uncomfortable.

Yeah like when they get defence analysts in for hour after hour on CNN when noone knows what the fuck is going on.

As I said I haven't seen it yet but to say that someone not looking at a camera means they are insincere is just total bullshit. He probably isn't sincere, fuck he's a politician, but it's a totally false environment so you can't compare it to a one on one.

More to do with how good their media training was.

[HELLVIS]

Rikk, you are right that all that really matters is what's said. But, the media has a way of taking things out of context, which usually changes meaning and intent.

[HELLVIS]

Wasn't complimenting Zebo for gain, but thanks. I have a brindle english mastiff sleeping at my feet right now, and happened to notice your new avatar.

[HELLVIS]

His name is Cerberus. He likes the entrails. HA HA !

[rustoffa]

Originally posted by HELLVIS
His name is Cerberus. He likes the entrails. HA HA !

Sounds like you got your hands full!

LMAO, brisket dogs are bad enough!

[MAX]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Let's see...

Kerry said Saddam was not a threat, then later in the debate he said Saddam was a threat...

Bush won...


:elvis:


Absolutely!!!!

Kerry was fucking robotic and Bush was human being with the answers. Case closed!!!

[HELLVIS]

The BCE is under your beds.

nighty...
night

[Matt White]

AOL update:
Who won the debate?
John Kerry 54%
George Bush 46%
Did it change the candidate you support?
No 72%
Yes, I now support Kerry 18%
Yes, I now support Bush 9%
Total Votes: 390,131
Note on Poll Results
Hmmmmmmm........Pepsi challenge says........Few minds were changed. And JOHN KERRY WON.

ROTH ON!!!

[Rikk]

Originally posted by MAX
Absolutely!!!!

Kerry was fucking robotic and Bush was human being with the answers. Case closed!!!

C'mon, MAX. You're more logical and a better arguer than that.

"My daddy could beat up your daddy...";)

[MAX]

Originally posted by Rikk
C'mon, MAX. You're more logical and a better arguer than that.

"My daddy could beat up your daddy...";)

Yeah, I'm not myself at the moment. Reply to my PM bitch!!!! I NEED to talk to you!!!! SERIOUSLY!!! :(

[monkeythe]

Both guys looked like losers tonight. There hasn't been a good debate since the Admiral Stockdale debacle in '92.

[Kristy]

Originally posted by Matt White
From AOL:
Who won the debate?
John Kerry 53%
George Bush 47%
Did it change the candidate you support?
No 72%
Yes, I now support Kerry 18%
Yes, I now support Bush 10%
Total Votes: 271,690
Note on Poll Results

Thanks for posting that, Matt. I sincerely appreciate it.

[Ally_Kat]

but remember, that's only AOL users. Not only just AOL users, but AOL users that were online at the time that poll was posted. That and people who didn't even watch the debates could be voting.

[Big Train]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by FORD
[B]

The mediawhores proclaimed Junior the winner, but he was just as brainless in the 2000 debates as he was in this one.


Did they really? 15 minutes after the fucking debate, on KTLA , an "LA TIMES FLASH POLL" proclaimed Kerry the winner by a wide margin. I guess those people are a different, freakier type of mediawhore...they didn't get the message, or they made their own.

[Big Train]

Kerry tonight won, but slightly. I'll agree the questions were softballs over the plate for him, but he actually did TOO WELL, was TOO rehearsed. He actually made the mistakes of Gore and George HW...he talked down to the audience with words like "coalition", "allies", blah blah, "thousand points of light" etc...

Bush repeated himself but only because the leading the witness techniques of the moderator required him to respond to the same basic question multiple times from different angles. Here Kerry should have gone for the kill, but he doesn't have it and stuck to repeating HIS same responses. A huge wasted opportunity for the democrats.

Dubya's body language I thought was a plus. He showed anger and frustration, which showed passion to some (myself included). He was human. At one point, when responding to the third in a line of remarkably similar questions, Dubya looked really pissed. Looking at the moderator like "your a dickhead for asking the same thing over and over, and he is a dickhead for anwsering.

W did a hell of a job pouring hot maple syrup on Kerry's waffles and Kerry had a hard time responding, even reading his prepared notes. He is a robot, like Gore was a robot. Bush did the exact right thing (thanks Rove, you evil son of a bitch, yeaaaaa!!!) in repeatedly throwing his waffles out there as people need to see his record is no good. People question W's record all day, every day. So should Kerry's record be questioned if he wants the job.

[Rikk]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
but remember, that's only AOL users. Not only just AOL users, but AOL users that were online at the time that poll was posted. That and people who didn't even watch the debates could be voting.

:rolleyes:

[Warham]

It was a pretty good 'debate'. I thought Kerry had well-rehearsed answers, and I thought Bush did a good job.

Something that bothers me about Kerry. He kept pounding about going to the UN for more diplomatic solutions on Iraq. There were something like 16 resolutions on Iraq since '91, weapons inspectors were allowed in then kicked out multiple times, and Saddam just didn't give a rats ass what the UN thought.

I was disturbed with Kerry's assessment that we must pass a 'global test' before we strike targets. Does that mean we have to clear it with North Korea, Iran, Franch, and Germany before we go to war?

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by Big Train
Kerry tonight won, but slightly. I'll agree the questions were softballs over the plate for him, but he actually did TOO WELL, was TOO rehearsed. He actually made the mistakes of Gore and George HW...he talked down to the audience with words like "coalition", "allies", blah blah, "thousand points of light" etc...

Bush repeated himself but only because the leading the witness techniques of the moderator required him to respond to the same basic question multiple times from different angles. Here Kerry should have gone for the kill, but he doesn't have it and stuck to repeating HIS same responses. A huge wasted opportunity for the democrats.

Dubya's body language I thought was a plus. He showed anger and frustration, which showed passion to some (myself included). He was human. At one point, when responding to the third in a line of remarkably similar questions, Dubya looked really pissed. Looking at the moderator like "your a dickhead for asking the same thing over and over, and he is a dickhead for anwsering.

W did a hell of a job pouring hot maple syrup on Kerry's waffles and Kerry had a hard time responding, even reading his prepared notes. He is a robot, like Gore was a robot. Bush did the exact right thing (thanks Rove, you evil son of a bitch, yeaaaaa!!!) in repeatedly throwing his waffles out there as people need to see his record is no good. People question W's record all day, every day. So should Kerry's record be questioned if he wants the job.

Nice, and I agree...

Kerry started off, on several occasions, saying that he would lay out his plan and went on to say blah blah blah diplomacy, I agree with the president on this and that, BUT I WILL DO IT BETTER....

He never really said one thing of substance...

The questions were definitely stacked against the president...

George Bush was off his game a bit I think...

Overall it was uninspiring on both accounts...


:elvis:

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by FORD
Kerry led the debate the whole way, there's no question.



You're an idiot. :gulp:

[FORD]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
You're an idiot. :gulp:

And you're a brainwashed sheep.

Even FAUX News said Kerry won the debate. As much as it pained them to do so.

[whodat]

wow, the polls reflect this morning that kerry only gained 2pts where as bush fell one point..horseshit from lastnight didnt effect anyone. people obviouisly still doubt kerry

[Sgt Schultz]

Sgt Schultz is always going to be honest with you.

John Kerry totally kicked Bush's butt last night. No question about it. Up until last night I felt pretty sure that Bush would win the election. After the debate I now think Kerry has a good chance of winning.

Some random points to consider.

1. All night Bush has a pissed off, annoyed look on his face. To me and I think other voters, this said "I really don't want to be here and endure questions" - i know what others are saying - that Leher didn't ask Kerry about his Senate record or antiwar activites but come on - this is a debate about being President and it is fair to question the sitting President about his foreign policy and the war in Iraq. He owes us answers, as any sitting President does, and to just repeat tiny sound bytes of crap isn't going to cut it. He has to do better than this - way better.

2. All night Bush kept saying the SAME THING - "We're doing good work", "It's a tough job" - you know what I say - bullshit - we, the American people are OWED more of an answer than that. If there is more of an answer than give it to us. If i was on Bush's staff I'd be kicking him in the pants today. Totally piss-poor answers.

3. Kerry sounded much more intelligent and lucid than Bush. Bush often went over his time allotment and then when Bush would storongly aslk for 30 more seconds - he'd just hemm and haw and spout the same crap - if you are going to ask for 30 more seconds then SAY SOMETHING. Good God.

4. For anyone who was listening, I think that Kerry DID explain his position on Iraq very clearly. If you don't understand, you aren;t listening. And Bush's response - the same. Yikes.

The feeling of diappointment may pass, and I'm sure Kerry will go out and say something dumb to make me feel better about last night but as it stands now, the bUsh campaign had better be worrying.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz
Sgt Schultz is always going to be honest with you.

John Kerry totally kicked Bush's butt last night. No question about it. Up until last night I felt pretty sure that Bush would win the election. After the debate I now think Kerry has a good chance of winning.


2. All night Bush kept saying the SAME THING - "Totally piss-poor answers.

3. Kerry sounded much more intelligent and lucid than Bush.

4. For anyone who was listening, I think that Kerry DID explain his position on Iraq very clearly. If you don't understand, you aren;t listening. And Bush's response - the same. Yikes.

as it stands now, the bUsh campaign had better be worrying.

I'm telling ya Schultz, Bush avoided the microscope for four years. You put him under it and huge cracks begin to show. It's as simple as that. I am glad you had a realistic take on the debate. I watched a replay of it before I hit the hay last night and it's clear that Kerry was in the pilot's seat the whole time. He has to be able to criticize Bush's strategy in Iraq and if people don't like that, they shouldn't be involved in democracy.

[FORD]

Thanks for that honest response, Schultz. Too bad some of your fellow Republicans can't see beyond the partisan spin.

[Sgt Schultz]

Originally posted by FORD
Thanks for that honest response, Schultz. Too bad some of your fellow Republicans can't see beyond the partisan spin.


Thank you. I tried to watch it objectively and I don't see any way one could say that Bush looked good - at all. He was embarassing. If I am to take Kerry at his word he said that he does want to win the war in Iraq and not pull out before we should. Bush COULD have said some things to counter Kerry but he just didn't.

And looking like this all night surely didn't help. Now if I hear anyone ever say again that Karl Rove is some sort of genius I'll have to bitch slap them.

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20041001/i/r1099765537.jpg

[ELVIS]

Yeah, I agree, Bush's off camera looks were bad...

[ELVIS]

BTW, I wholeheartedly agree with Schultz...

But Kerry said nothing last night...

I predict last night to be Kerry's strongest showing in these debates...

algore won the first debate in 2000...

We've only just begun...


:elvis:

[light 'em up!]

My take... Kerry looked presidential and sounded articulate and polished. Bush, as usual, looked smug and sounded like he was at a loss for words all night.

[ELVIS]

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20041001/i/r2030787593.jpg

[ELVIS]

The part where Kerry clearly failed was his "global test" remark, implying that the US takes no action whatsoever without UN approval...

[Pink Spider]

Why, oh why, did I watch that "debate" last night?

I really want that hour and half of my life back.

But, Kerry won. Not hard to do considering who he was up against.

[VanJay011379]

Originally posted by FORD

Because the dumb son of a bitch can't say "Nuclear" :D

Really? Got a clip?:confused:

[Seshmeister]

Do a google search

[BITEYOASS]

Originally posted by VanJay011379
Really? Got a clip?:confused:

If you think that was shocking, what about the part where Bush made a mistake in saying that Saddam Hussein was the greatest threat to america? I didn't even have to watch the debate. Since just listening to it live on NPR, I can tell that Kerry had the upperhand. But I won't be convinced until I see the VP debates. Cheney will probably throw a bitch fit if Edwards mentions the administration's links to Haliburton. :D

[worldbefree]

I love the way Bush spent 90 minutes repeating the same old tired lines over and over again. Kinda reminds me of DLR LOL.

Edwards is going to crush Cheney the same way Kerry did Bush. Any person with an ounce of common sense knows Kerry won the debate last night.

Chris Berman can replay part of the debates when Bush was talking and use his fumbling bumbling line during Primetime next Sunday night.

[Big Train]

Apparently, you didn't notice Kerry doing the exact same thing.

Cheney is gonna eat Edwards alive. Edwards is a trial lawyer with very limited experience on the national stage. Cheney is well informed and expresses himself better than Bush does, an area I'm willing to admit has never been Bush's strong suit (and an area people use to say he is stupid, unfortunately). Edwards will need to pull a miracle out to make that happen.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Big Train
Apparently, you didn't notice Kerry doing the exact same thing.

Cheney is gonna eat Edwards alive. Edwards is a trial lawyer with very limited experience on the national stage. Cheney is well informed and expresses himself better than Bush does, an area I'm willing to admit has never been Bush's strong suit (and an area people use to say he is stupid, unfortunately). Edwards will need to pull a miracle out to make that happen.


I just don't know how you can believe anything Cheney says when he's been contradicted by so many authoritative sources like the 911 Commission. I won't believe a word he says.

[Big Train]

By that very same token, I wonder how you can believe ANYTHING by Kerry...

Question I have is how does Kerry plan to "create new global alliances". None of the parameters have changed, nor does he have any experience in doing such a thing. His "foreign policy" has always been to visit with leaders, kiss their ass. Nothing more.

Or the other major whopper of the evening. "I plan to change the dynamics on the ground in Iraq"? WTF? With what, Oreos and milk for the insurgents? Shut the fuck up.....

[DLR'sCock]

You guys are just mad that Bush was exposed for the ilinformed, frustrated, egotistical, chimp that he is....Bush got his ass handed to him...

It was pathetic that this guy is our president, adn all he did was repeat the same 5 or 6 talking points over and over....

He was practically beggin and pleading for people to feel sorry for him, "I'm the prezzzident, dontha buhlieve me....???"...



When the sock puppet Bush doesn't have the Puppetmaster Cheney's hand up his ass and speaking for him, the puppet deflates......

[Guitar Shark]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz
Sgt Schultz is always going to be honest with you.

John Kerry totally kicked Bush's butt last night. No question about it. Up until last night I felt pretty sure that Bush would win the election. After the debate I now think Kerry has a good chance of winning.

Some random points to consider.

1. All night Bush has a pissed off, annoyed look on his face. To me and I think other voters, this said "I really don't want to be here and endure questions" - i know what others are saying - that Leher didn't ask Kerry about his Senate record or antiwar activites but come on - this is a debate about being President and it is fair to question the sitting President about his foreign policy and the war in Iraq. He owes us answers, as any sitting President does, and to just repeat tiny sound bytes of crap isn't going to cut it. He has to do better than this - way better.

2. All night Bush kept saying the SAME THING - "We're doing good work", "It's a tough job" - you know what I say - bullshit - we, the American people are OWED more of an answer than that. If there is more of an answer than give it to us. If i was on Bush's staff I'd be kicking him in the pants today. Totally piss-poor answers.

3. Kerry sounded much more intelligent and lucid than Bush. Bush often went over his time allotment and then when Bush would storongly aslk for 30 more seconds - he'd just hemm and haw and spout the same crap - if you are going to ask for 30 more seconds then SAY SOMETHING. Good God.

4. For anyone who was listening, I think that Kerry DID explain his position on Iraq very clearly. If you don't understand, you aren;t listening. And Bush's response - the same. Yikes.

The feeling of diappointment may pass, and I'm sure Kerry will go out and say something dumb to make me feel better about last night but as it stands now, the bUsh campaign had better be worrying.

Quality post right there.

[Big Train]

Cock,

I'm not mad and I give Kerry his due. He is a better robot, no doubt. Speaking of the same 5 or 6 talking points, they were BOTH guilty of that. Only difference, as detailed in my other thread,only Dubya's positions have remained consistent. Who wouldn't be frustrated talking to a robot who only spits out what he thinks will work in the moment?

[DLR'sCock]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz
Sgt Schultz is always going to be honest with you.

John Kerry totally kicked Bush's butt last night. No question about it. Up until last night I felt pretty sure that Bush would win the election. After the debate I now think Kerry has a good chance of winning.

Some random points to consider.

1. All night Bush has a pissed off, annoyed look on his face. To me and I think other voters, this said "I really don't want to be here and endure questions" - i know what others are saying - that Leher didn't ask Kerry about his Senate record or antiwar activites but come on - this is a debate about being President and it is fair to question the sitting President about his foreign policy and the war in Iraq. He owes us answers, as any sitting President does, and to just repeat tiny sound bytes of crap isn't going to cut it. He has to do better than this - way better.

2. All night Bush kept saying the SAME THING - "We're doing good work", "It's a tough job" - you know what I say - bullshit - we, the American people are OWED more of an answer than that. If there is more of an answer than give it to us. If i was on Bush's staff I'd be kicking him in the pants today. Totally piss-poor answers.

3. Kerry sounded much more intelligent and lucid than Bush. Bush often went over his time allotment and then when Bush would storongly aslk for 30 more seconds - he'd just hemm and haw and spout the same crap - if you are going to ask for 30 more seconds then SAY SOMETHING. Good God.

4. For anyone who was listening, I think that Kerry DID explain his position on Iraq very clearly. If you don't understand, you aren;t listening. And Bush's response - the same. Yikes.

The feeling of diappointment may pass, and I'm sure Kerry will go out and say something dumb to make me feel better about last night but as it stands now, the bUsh campaign had better be worrying.

An honest man....good post.

[BigBadBrian]

I thought the whole "debate" was incredibly boring. :gulp:

[Warham]

The first debate means dick in the overall picture. Most undecideds, all 10 of them, watch all three debates before they really make up their mind.

Gore won the first debate in 2000, Bush then proceeded to clean his clock in the other two.

I have a good feeling we'll see a reinvigorated Bush in the second debate.

[MAX]

I watched it again this morning and I must admit that Bush missed a lot of opportunities. However, this is just the first of three. If anyone remembers, back in 2000 Gore won the first debate as well.

Anyway, I will say that Kerry is a good debater but overall he's just too polished. All style and no substance. I still think Bush did a good job.

[Ally_Kat]

Originally Said by John Kerry
The president hasn't put one nickel, not one nickel into the effort to fix some of our tunnels and bridges and most exposed subway systems. That's why they had to close down the subway in New York when the Republican Convention was there



Not for nothing, but firstly the subways weren't closed down during the RNC. Secondly, a few lines skipped stops, not because the President hadn't spent money on transit, but because the NYPD and Secret Service deemed it too dangerous to have them open. This has nothing to do with the President and Kerry knows that.

[HELLVIS]

Originally posted by Pink Spider
Why, oh why, did I watch that "debate" last night?

I really want that hour and half of my life back.

But, Kerry won. Not hard to do considering who he was up against.

Thank you.
I knew you were out there.
Nice signature.

[HELLVIS]

Now that I've had a couple days to fully digest that plate-full of overcooked oatmeal we were all fed the other night, I have moved from unimpressed to pissed.

I didn't watch the recap/spin shows that followed the debate. I never do. But, I have watched these boards and others, listened to talk radio, and had numerous conversations about that pathetic debate.
After all that, I can see what a bunch of lemmings we really are. 9 out of ten dems say Kerry won. 9 out of ten reps say Bush won. I think they sucked. Kerry may have sucked a very small amount less, but be real. They sucked.

Is that really the best we can do? Is it?

That shit looked like high school debate. Soft-balls, over repeated talking points and catch phrases, eye rolling, empty promises, missed opportunities, dead air.............FUCK!!!!!!!!!

The whole world is watching. And those two made us look real fucking good.

Face it. They are both part of the same team. They are both carrying the NWO torch. They just change the labels on the same fucking package. Wake the fuck up!

[FORD]

Originally posted by HELLVIS

The whole world is watching. And those two made us look real fucking good.

Face it. They are both part of the same team. They are both carrying the NWO torch. They just change the labels on the same fucking package. Wake the fuck up!

So then the answer is simple...

Job 1 is to preserve what little we have left of checks and balances, and right now that's the Supreme Court. Another 4 years of the BCE and that will be gone too. So Bush and his neocon traitors must go first.

Job2 is to destroy the structures in the parties which permit this bullshit. That's the DLC in the Democratic Party and the BCE-neocon wing of the Republican party Those must be destroyed by whatever means necessary.

Job 3 is the destruction of the corporate media. It should be against the law for anyone who benefits directly from war to own a media outlet, period. It should be against the law for anyone to own more than one media outlet in a single metropolitan area. period. No excuses. No Murdoch. No Fear Channel.

Job 4 is the building of alternative parties. Democracy works best when everybody is represented fairly, and if the Democrats and Republicans don't do it for you, then find a party that does and build it up. Imagine 6 active parties representing a reasonable cross section of American opinion, rather than 2 parties representing the top rungs of the Fortune 500.

Who's with me?

[ODShowtime]

I'm down Ford. The smokers party.


I just want to know why all you repubs are so shocked that Bush sounded like a moron. HELLO he has been spoon feeding you people bullshit like that for 4 years!!!!!

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by FORD
and if the Democrats and Republicans don't do it for you, then find a party that does and build it up.


Why don't you take your own advice, Kerry sheep ??

[Warham]

FORD says that Kerry isn't his guy, but yet he's not going to help build up a third party where he might find a candidate he loves.

He's just towing the Liberal Line.

[Seshmeister]

Comon...

You live in a two party state, that's a weak argument to throw at FORD, he's not the most difficult target...:)

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by FORD
So then the answer is simple...

Job 1 is to preserve what little we have left of checks and balances, and right now that's the Supreme Court. Another 4 years of the BCE and that will be gone too. So Bush and his neocon traitors must go first.

Job2 is to destroy the structures in the parties which permit this bullshit. That's the DLC in the Democratic Party and the BCE-neocon wing of the Republican party Those must be destroyed by whatever means necessary.

Job 3 is the destruction of the corporate media. It should be against the law for anyone who benefits directly from war to own a media outlet, period. It should be against the law for anyone to own more than one media outlet in a single metropolitan area. period. No excuses. No Murdoch. No Fear Channel.

Job 4 is the building of alternative parties. Democracy works best when everybody is represented fairly, and if the Democrats and Republicans don't do it for you, then find a party that does and build it up. Imagine 6 active parties representing a reasonable cross section of American opinion, rather than 2 parties representing the top rungs of the Fortune 500.

Who's with me?

Baby steps...

Your system is so fucked up it's frightening. I know a lot of you are fiercely proud and patriotic of the US but honestly your electoral process is fucked up. No other western democratic country comes close to the mess the US is in. Maybe it's because you were one of the first true democracy's you have ended up with the worst system.

What you need is a bill with the following clauses.

1) A spending cap on presidential elections of say $75 million per candidate. Things have spiraled out of control leading to far too many favors being owed by the incumbant to sponsors rather than the voters.

2) Automatic voter registration. Everyone is put on the electoral roll. Whether you vote or not is your own choice.

3) No paid for TV adverts. Each candidate get's an alloted amount of time depending on their vote, say 5 hours of broadcasts. The networks have to show them for nothing as part of their license to braodcast

4) 1 month for primary's and 1 month for the election itself. Over a year of campaigning is pointless and harks back to the days before mass communication.

5) Gerrymandering ourlawed. All states follow Idaho(and most other democracy's) and have an independant boundary commision. The scariest thing about the extesive gerrymandering is that most people don't even know it is happening.

6) Scrap the electoral college. It makes no sense in this day in age, just a straight vote.

7) Get rid of postal votes. In the UK last year they tried to have an all postal ballot and it immediately became embroiled in corruption and dodgyness. Bad idea. If you don't show up for the vote tough luck.


Unfortunately it's not goinbg to happen.

Cheers!

:gulp:

[FORD]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Baby steps...

Your system is so fucked up it's frightening. I know a lot of you are fiercely proud and patriotic of the US but honestly your electoral process is fucked up. No other western democratic country comes close to the mess the US is in. Maybe it's because you were one of the first true democracy's you have ended up with the worst system.

What you need is a bill with the following clauses.

1) A spending cap on presidential elections of say $75 million per candidate. Things have spiraled out of control leading to far too many favors being owed by the incumbant to sponsors rather than the voters.

2) Automatic voter registration. Everyone is put on the electoral roll. Whether you vote or not is your own choice.

3) No paid for TV adverts. Each candidate get's an alloted amount of time depending on their vote, say 5 hours of broadcasts. The networks have to show them for nothing as part of their license to braodcast

4) 1 month for primary's and 1 month for the election itself. Over a year of campaigning is pointless and harks back to the days before mass communication.

5) Gerrymandering ourlawed. All states follow Idaho(and most other democracy's) and have an independant boundary commision. The scariest thing about the extesive gerrymandering is that most people don't even know it is happening.

6) Scrap the electoral college. It makes no sense in this day in age, just a straight vote.

7) Get rid of postal votes. In the UK last year they tried to have an all postal ballot and it immediately became embroiled in corruption and dodgyness. Bad idea. If you don't show up for the vote tough luck.


Unfortunately it's not goinbg to happen.

Cheers!

:gulp:

I agree with all of that Sesh. Actually, you just expanded on what I meant with Job #2 of my plan above. Because what you have just described is HOW to break the corporatist duopoly.

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by Seshmeister

2) Automatic voter registration. Everyone is put on the electoral roll. Whether you vote or not is your own choice.


That is impossible to do. We need signatures, not to mention party affiliation mostly for primaries, and addresses so they can be assigned an ED/AD


Originally posted by Seshmeister

7) Get rid of postal votes. In the UK last year they tried to have an all postal ballot and it immediately became embroiled in corruption and dodgyness. Bad idea. If you don't show up for the vote tough luck.



So what? Members of the military are not allowed to vote in an election that very much affects them because they are stationed overseas or away from their election district?

Not to mention the pollworkers who cannot get to their voting location because they are on the other side of town helping others to vote or kids out of state in college.

And no, voting at the current location wouldn't work for the last two because there always different local offices with different canidates for the differing EDs.

Everyone is entitled to a vote.

[Warham]

FORD would agree with no postal votes...most of those guys overseas are going to vote for Bush.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
That is impossible to do. We need signatures, not to mention party affiliation mostly for primaries, and addresses so they can be assigned an ED/AD



Most other countries manage it. You just have a voters roll. It's not rocket science.

[DLR'sCock]

Originally posted by Warham
The first debate means dick in the overall picture. Most undecideds, all 10 of them, watch all three debates before they really make up their mind.

Gore won the first debate in 2000, Bush then proceeded to clean his clock in the other two.

I have a good feeling we'll see a reinvigorated Bush in the second debate.

Well first off, the viewership for the second debate goes down about 10 million viewers on average, so the first is very important. The second debate is on a friday night and well there will be less people watching. Also it should be noted that this first debate was supposed to be Bush's strongest card, foreign policy....the next two deabtes will focus on domestic issues such as jobs and healthcare where Kerry overall has had quite an edge.....(that's if these polls mean anything to people)...


I stand by my prediction that Lush/Phoney will lose in 2004...

[DLR'sCock]

With our election system, I do agree with much of what Sesh said, but I woulsdad that we should have run-off voting as well, to give third, 4th, and 5th etc parties more of a chance...

[Warham]

I stand by my earlier assessment that there are probably 10 people in the country that haven't made up their minds yet.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by Warham
I stand by my earlier assessment that there are probably 10 people in the country that haven't made up their minds yet.

And because of the gerrymandering 9 of them have irrelevant votes.