I give the nod to Bush this time around in this debate

[BigBadBrian]

Bush was more in his element here.

[BigBadBrian]

Maybe Kerry forgot to get a manicure today. :D

[ODShowtime]

Bush was definitely more relaxed and in charge. I don't think he could have done worse than the last one...


He did get pissed when Kerry dissed his posse.

[ELVIS]

George Bush won hands down!

John Kerry was tongue tied and answered questions with his lame talking points...

Bush!

Four more years!

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by ODShowtime


He did get pissed when Kerry dissed his posse.

:confused:

[McCarrens]

Bush beat down Kerry like Godzilla beating down Tokyo!

Four more years! Four more years!Four more years!Four more years!Four more years!Four more years!Four more years!Four more years!Four more years!Four more years!Four more years!Four more years!Four more years!Four more years!Four more years!Four more years!Four more years!Four more years!Four more years!Four more years!Four more years!Four more years!Four more years!Four more years!

[Lqskdiver]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
Bush was definitely more relaxed and in charge. I don't think he could have done worse than the last one...


He did get pissed when Kerry dissed his pusse.

When did Kerry badmouth Theresa?:confused:

[Lqskdiver]

You know, this was the President I voted for. It was like a Morales vs. Barrera fight. They both threw their punches, but this time KKKerry got rattled. Did you hear him crying about the "name calling". "

Boo hoo, stop calling me names! Tell him to stop, Charlie!"

I bust out laughing.

One example of flip-flop...

When he first went after Bush for not allowing the sanctions to work in Iraq. Supposedly, they were working according the Duelher report. Then when asked about North Korea, first thing out of a KKKerry's mouth is, and I quote: "...sanctions don't always work"

God, I was hoping Bush would've laid into him right there!!

Hopefully, someone caught it and it will be used while on the stump. Otherwise, I might have to call Rush and ask to point it out to the Bush campaign. :D

[Matt White]

From AOL:
Who won the debate?
John Kerry 52%
George Bush 48%
Which ticket is faring better in the debates overall?
Kerry-Edwards 54%
Bush-Cheney 46%
Total Votes: 234,944
Note on Poll Results
"If President Bush loses tonight, forget it. The election is over." quote Bill o'Reilly
Now it get's interesting.

DAVE OR THE GRAVE BABY!!!!!!!

[ELVIS]

AOL ???

:rolleyes:

[Matt White]

Yup, AOL NEWS. They've held polls after the first 2 debates, and their numbers have been consistent with national polls. It's way too early to tell what the outcome will be at this point. Just thought I throw that in the arena.


DAVE OR THE GRAVE MOTHERFUCKERS!!!!!

[monkeythe]

Are the people that would use an AOL poll old enough to vote?

[Matt White]

Yup, AOL NEWS. They've had polls after the first 2 debates, and their numbers have been consistent with the national polls. It's still way to early to tell the outcome, but I thought I'd just throw that into the arena.


DAVE OR THE GRAVE BABY!!!!

[Ally_Kat]

Like I've stated and recieved a :rolleyes: for --

This is only AOL users. Not only just AOL users, but AOL users that were online at the time that poll was posted. That and people who didn't even watch the debates could be voting. That and people who aren't even legal to vote in the election could be voting.

Might not want to hear it, but that's true. But go ahead anf give me the :rolleyes: if you must, but not everybody watching the debates has AOL. Not everybody online after watching the debates voted in the little poll.

[lucky wilbury]

did you guys know john kerry has a plan? i wonder if his plan includes a plan for a plan that will implement his plan before he changes his mind about the plan and starts a new plan

[Steve Savicki]

"Two presidential debates and two clear wins. John Kerry is going to be the next president of the United States, and more people know it now than just two short hours ago.

Tonight, George Bush had another chance to make his case to the American people. Again he failed.

Again, he showed that he is out of touch with reality on Iraq.

Again, he offered no plan for jobs and no plan for cutting the cost of health care.

Again, he pretended that our problems don't exist.

Again, he refused to level with the American people.



George Bush just doesn't get it, so he can't fix it.

John Kerry held George Bush accountable for the failures of the last four years. He demonstrated the strength and character we need in a president. He made it clear he could lead as commander in chief.

John Kerry offered real solutions to real problems. He told America the truth, and offered a plan for a fresh start on the economy, Iraq, and the war on terror. Simply put, he was presidential. Ironically, the president was not.

Right now, I'm here on the front lines in St. Louis. Down the hall is what they call the "spin room." It is where Republican operatives are trying to put their best face on what was another clear victory for John Kerry. I've done this a few times before, and I can tell you firsthand that my job is a lot easier when our candidate has a big night like John Kerry did tonight. - Joe Lockhart,
Senior Advisor

[Big Train]

Originally posted by monkeythe
Are the people that would use an AOL poll old enough to vote?

I don't know, but I do know they are stupid enough to use AOL....

[Rikk]

Bush lost tonight. I thought it was even more embarressing than the last debate.

C'mon people, almost none of Bush's answers were direct answers to the questions he was asked. He used very little logic. He contradicted himself from past comments. Everything was about "freedom", "terrorists" and "you can run but you can't hide". I actually felt sorry for Bush for looking so bad.

Kerry kicked his ass. Kerry will be the next President. Bush really fucked up.

[Warham]

Ridiculous Rikk.

Bush answered every question directly, unlike the trial lawyer Edwards in the last debate, who always answered the previous question when asked a new question.

Bush was direct, thoughtful, and strong in his answers.

He definately likes the town hall format better.

Bush - winner.

I still don't know what Kerry's plan is for Iraq. He said he was going to bring in our allies? They are already there.

He's talking about bringing in France, Russian and Germany. They are NOT coming to help, no matter how Kerry wants to spin it.

[Matt White]

Final poll result from those whacky kids at AOL NEWS:
Who won the debate?
John Kerry 52%
George Bush 48%
Which ticket is faring better in the debates overall?
Kerry-Edwards 54%
Bush-Cheney 46%
Total Votes: 472,445
Note on Poll Results

DAVE OR THE GRAVE BABY!!!!

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Steve Savicki
"Two presidential debates and two clear wins... and I can tell you firsthand that my job is a lot easier when our candidate has a big night like John Kerry did tonight. - Joe Lockhart,
Senior Advisor

Geez, that's funny. Joe Lockhart was overheard saying that the first debate was a draw. Anything to try and do some damage control, I guess. :gulp:

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Rikk
Bush lost tonight. I thought it was even more embarressing than the last debate.

C'mon people, almost none of Bush's answers were direct answers to the questions he was asked. He used very little logic. He contradicted himself from past comments. Everything was about "freedom", "terrorists" and "you can run but you can't hide". I actually felt sorry for Bush for looking so bad.

Kerry kicked his ass. Kerry will be the next President. Bush really fucked up.

I'd almost have respect for this post if it made sense. It doesn't. :gulp:

[FORD]

Bush wasn't the babbling incoherent idiot he was last week.

Instead, he was the screaming angry idiot. 9-11 9-11 terraists hate our freedoms 9-11 and oh yeah, did I mention 9-11?

He was yelling at the audience, talking down to the American citizens he's allegedly serving. Not cool, Chimpy.....

Junior is as in denial and out of touch as his daddy was, and that proved to be Poppy's downfall. And Junior has damaged this country in ways that his father never even thought of.

[Sgt Schultz]

Originally posted by lucky wilbury
did you guys know john kerry has a plan? i wonder if his plan includes a plan for a plan that will implement his plan before he changes his mind about the plan and starts a new plan

Hilarious.

Bush won this one. Unlike at the first debate, he had Kerry on the defensive quite often and (gasp) he actually had Kerry at a loss for words at times. Bush had every right to be pissed off at the 100% bullshit Kerry kept spouting at the 1st and 2nd debates. He repeated the crap about Tora Bora and not enough troops etc etc blah blah blah and he kept up the attack on our allies - which is when Bush really launched. Good for him. How can this asshole think that he's going to be a coalition and allies builder when he continually calls their help pratically worth nothing and he keeps dissing our biggest ally of all - Iraq?

Here's Kerry going on about the 1st Gulf War - and that SOB voted AGAINST IT. Folks if he voted against the 1st Gulf War, when Saddam invaded another country, the UN DID give "permission" to invade, and the whole world condemned Saddam - then he's a joke.

Kerry got bitch slapped. And people are now paying attention to what he's actually saying.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz
How can this asshole think that he's going to be a coalition and allies builder when he continually calls their help pratically worth nothing and he keeps dissing our biggest ally of all - Iraq?



Colonies are not "allies". Allies are countries who willingly decide to side with "the US" (meaning the BCE in this case)

[Sgt Schultz]

Originally posted by FORD
Colonies are not "allies". Allies are countries who willingly decide to side with "the US" (meaning the BCE in this case)

Bullshit hyperbole once again from you. Using your analogy Germany, Japan, South Korea, and Italy were all colonies too.

[Dr. Love]

Originally posted by Warham
Bush answered every question directly, unlike the trial lawyer Edwards in the last debate, who always answered the previous question when asked a new question.


As I recall, both sides were doing that in the VP debate.


I haven't watched this yet; Recorded it with my DVR because I was going to be busy. Will watch today sometime.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz
Bullshit hyperbole once again from you. Using your analogy Germany, Japan, South Korea, and Italy were all colonies too.

Well, WWII was 60 years ago and the Korean war was 50 years ago and there are still US troops in all those places, right?

Seriously though, it's a different situation. Those countries weren't deliberately invaded with the purpose of imperialism as Iraq was.

[McCarrens]

Ford, you spin so much I get dizzy.

[Wayne L.]

George W. Bush came across as more human while John Kerry was more robotic which is why Bush will win by about 4 or 5 points in the election against Kerry even though the Democrats are too damn confident at the moment.

[ELVIS]

Amen Wayne!


:D

[FORD]

The Scary Little Man
By William Rivers Pitt
t r u t h o u t | Perspective

Friday 08 October 2004

"He had a feeling that the answer was quite different and that he ought to know it, but he could not think of it. He began to get frightened, and that is bad for thinking."

- J.R.R. Tolkien

George W. Bush, still smarting from his embarrassing performance in the Florida debate, decided on Friday night in St. Louis that volume was a good substitute for strength, that yelling would be mistaken for gravitas. The result was an ugly, disturbing, genuinely frightening show.

In my report on the first debate, I described Bush as, "Shrill. Defensive. Muddled. Angry, very angry. Repetitive. Uninformed. Outmatched. Unprepared. Hesitant." As bad as that display was, it honestly paled in comparison to the frenzied hectoring Bush sprayed at 140 Missouri citizens who had the ill fortune of watching the man come unglued before their eyes.

John Kerry, by comparison, was every inch the controlled prosecutor pressing his case to the jury. It was, perhaps, that calm delineation of Bush's myriad errors which caused the Republican candidate to blow his stack. Exactly 30 minutes into the debate, Bush became so agitated by Kerry's description of the "back-door draft," which is literally bleeding the life out of our National Guard and Reserve forces, that he lunged out of his chair and shrieked over moderator Charles Gibson, who was trying to maintain some semblance of decorum.

"You tell Tony Blair we're going alone," Bush roared. "Tell Tony Blair we're going alone!" The disturbed murmur from the crowd was audible. Bush, simply, frightened them.

More unsettling than Bush's demonstrable agitation was his almost uncanny disconnect from reality.

The voluminous report released by Charles Duelfer and the Iraq Survey Group, compiled by 1,625 U.N. and U.S. weapons inspectors after two years of searching some 1,700 sites in Iraq at a cost of more than $1 billion, stated flatly that no weapons of mass destruction exist in that nation, that no weapons of mass destruction have existed in that nation for years, and that any capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction within that nation has been crumbling for the same amount of years.

"My opponent said that America must pass a global test before we used force to protect ourselves," said Bush during the Iraq phase of the debate. "That's the kind of mindset that says sanctions were working. That's the kind of mindset that said, 'Let's keep it at the United Nations and hope things go well.' Saddam Hussein was a threat because he could have given weapons of mass destruction to terrorist enemies. Sanctions were not working."

What? First of all, the Duelfer Report proves beyond any question that sanctions had worked incredibly well. The stuff wasn't there, because Scott Ritter and the UNSCOM inspectors destroyed it all during the 1990s, along with any and all equipment and facilities to make it. The stuff wasn't there because the sanctions put into place against Hussein prevented him from getting any material to develop weapons. The stuff wasn't there because Hussein stopped making it years ago, because the sanctions were breaking his back. The sanctions worked.

When Bush made the statement about Hussein giving weapons of mass destruction to "terrorist enemies," the needle edged over from 'Dumb' to 'Deranged.' How many different ways must one say "The stuff wasn't there" before George picks up the clue phone? How does someone give away something he doesn't have?

Bush continued in this appalling vein when he said, "He keeps talking about, 'Let the inspectors do their job.' It's naive and dangerous to say that. That's what the Duelfer report showed." Welcome to Bush World, where everything is upside down and two plus two equals a bag of hammers. It is naive and dangerous to point out that the inspectors got the job done in the 1990s, that Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction whatsoever? No, George. It is simply the truth.

The mental disconnect reared its shouting head repeatedly throughout the evening. Bush somehow lost track of where he was at one point and called his opponent, "Senator Kennedy." He told one questioner that he would control the deficit by stopping Congress from spending, only a few minutes after defending the fact that he had never, not once, vetoed a spending bill from Congress.

He made an accountant crack about "Battling green eyeshades," a statement that immediately became a first-ballot nominee for the Gibberish Hall of Fame. When asked what kind of Supreme Court Justice he would nominate if given an opportunity, he wandered off along a free-association rant about Dred Scott. Clearly, this President will make sure to nominate people to the bench who are opposed to chattel slavery.

Perhaps the most telling moment came when questioner Linda Grabel asked Bush, "Please give three instances in which you came to realize you had made a wrong decision, and what you did to correct it."

As with his April prime time press conference, in which he was asked a very similar question, Bush absolutely refused to admit to any errors in judgment, beyond a cryptic quip about mistakes in personnel appointments which he would not elaborate upon. He opened himself up to the judgment of history, a sad straddle given the simple fact that no President can avoid such a judgment. That was all he was willing to offer. Ms. Grabel did not hear about three mistakes. She did not even hear about one.

Bush was every inch the angry man on Friday night, which is dangerous enough. But to witness anger combined with belligerent ignorance, with a willful denial of basic facts, to witness a man utterly incapable of admitting to any mistakes while his clear errors in judgment are costing his country in blood, to see that combination roiling within the man who is in charge of the most awesome military arsenal in the history of the planet, is more than dangerous.

It is flatly terrifying.

William Rivers Pitt is a New York Times and international bestseller of two books - 'War on Iraq: What Team Bush Doesn't Want You to Know' and 'The Greatest Sedition is Silence.'link (http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/101004Z.shtml)

[DLR'sCock]

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Art/MSNBC_TV/Evergreen/QOD_Debate_Pres.standard.jpg


Who won the debate? * 1,417,747 responses

Sen. Kerry
63%


Pres. Bush
37%

[DLR'sCock]

Pundits: Bush Mad, Kerry Composed



Fierce from the outset, Sen. John Kerry and President Bush pulled few punches in their second debate Friday night in St. Louis. Experts interviewed immediately following the head-to-head contest spoke to the style, the nuance of character and the unspoken gestures that often sway voters.

Though Mr. Bush was more composed than in last week's first presidential debate, all agreed his tone was sometimes antagonistic and he again appeared uncomfortable being challenged. Kerry, on the other hand, was viewed as measured and articulate. However, none of the experts touted a clear winner.

“Bush was aggressive now and then," said James Thurber, director of the Center for Congressional and Presidential Studies at American University. "Bush made some mistakes in speaking. Kerry didn’t make any gaffes in terms of speaking and style. The questions are theoretically to swing voters and I didn’t see anything there that is going to swing voters.”

While experts saw a night of substance and not-so-subtle hostility, none believed undecided voters will be swayed by this debate.

But what is clear after two Bush-Kerry debates is that the candidates don’t care for each other. They may shake hands, but resentment runs deep. Kerry infers Mr. Bush is simplistic to the point of dishonesty; Mr. Bush infers Kerry is complicated to the point of ineffectiveness.

“Kerry was very aggressive in this debate. In some of those two-shots it looked like Kerry was the prosecutor and Bush was the defendant,” said Alan Schroeder, a presidential debate historian at Northeastern University. “Bush was better than last time but he seemed rather shrill to me and not terribly articulate.”

Mr. Bush was funnier; Kerry was more substantive. While the president didn’t scowl as in the first presidential debate, he did sit lock-jawed, at one time jumping up from his chair, aching to rebut Kerry.

“Bush’s jaw was set. He was chomping his mouth,” Schroeder said.

But as on the stump, Mr. Bush’s self-deprecating humor may have balanced his agitated expressions. And this time, the close-ups were fewer while the other candidate spoke.

When Kerry said he would “get tough” with Iran if necessary, Mr. Bush was quick to rebut.

“That answer almost made me want to scowl,” the president quipped. The audience chuckled.

In the first debate, President Bush’ scowls were thought to play a large part in viewers' belief that Kerry won, based on polls by CBS News and others.

Tonight, before an audience of 140 likely voters at Washington University in St. Louis, moderator Charles Gibson of ABC directed the undecided voters from question to question. The candidates could walk around, though within a prescribed space. They were not allowed to come within reach of the audience.

“The great opportunity that this format gives is movement. A lot of speakers, like to move when talking, preachers, and Bush likes this,” said film historian David Thomson, who emphasizes thematic components to debates. “Bush gave off a signal right away that this is a format he was more comfortable. But I think Kerry handled it equally well.”

Thomson thought the debate was “much more even” than the first one. Like Thurber, Thompson said, “I suspect that this is not a debate in which there will be a substantial change one way or another.”

Wednesday in Arizona, the final presidential debate will emphasize domestic issues. But it remains unclear whether any further debating will sway more voters. By the close of the 90-minute face-off Friday, those interviewed agreed that the candidates said much that played to their political bases, but little that would influence the undecided.

“I think by the end of this debate there was a feeling that we’ve heard these guys say the same things too many times,” Thomson said. “We now know. It’s up to us. If we can’t make up our minds on what we see, then the worse for us.

[DLR'sCock]

Poll: Bush, Kerry tie in 2nd debate
Candidates trade punches over taxes, jobs, health care, Iraq
Saturday, October 9, 2004 Posted: 10:01 AM EDT (1401 GMT)




ST. LOUIS, Missouri (CNN) -- The day after the second presidential debate, an initial poll indicates a statistical tie in Friday night's face-off between President Bush and Democratic nominee Sen. John Kerry.

A CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll taken right after the town hall meeting-style debate found respondents giving a slight, statistically insignificant edge to Kerry over Bush: 47 percent of them went for Kerry and 45 percent for Bush.

The survey had a margin of error of plus-or-minus 4 percentage points, making the results a virtual draw.

It did suggest that Bush had a significantly better performance than in the first debate, which respondents gave to Kerry by a margin of 53 percent to 37 percent.

The poll is a reflection of immediate impressions of respondents who are registered voters who watched the debate. (Full story)

On Saturday, Bush is scheduled to travel to Iowa and Minnesota for campaign events, following an appearance in Missouri, where the debate took place.

Kerry also is set to stump Saturday in Missouri, a state that could possibly be crucial to the election's outcome, where polls show the candidates are neck-and-neck.

From Missouri, Kerry is expected at events in two other battleground states -- Ohio and Florida.

Friday night, during the town meeting held at Washington University in St. Louis, the president was asked about a report released this week that said Saddam Hussein's regime had no weapons of mass destruction -- a key reason Bush gave for the U.S.-led Iraq war.

"I wasn't happy when we found out there wasn't weapons," Bush said. "But Saddam Hussein was a unique threat. And the world is better off without him in power. And my opponent's plans lead me to conclude that Saddam Hussein would still be in power, and the world would be more dangerous [if Kerry had been president]."

Kerry fired back, saying the president's policies have left Americans with a huge bill for the war in Iraq.

"If we'd used smart diplomacy, we could have saved $200 billion and an invasion of Iraq, and right now Osama bin Laden might be in jail or dead. That's the war on terror."

After Kerry accused him of going alone into Iraq, Bush interrupted the moderator, ABC's Charles Gibson, to demand that Kerry ask the British or Italian prime ministers if their participation was nonexistent.

Bush repeatedly told Kerry that when it came to his Senate record, "You can run, but you can't hide."

"I don't seen how you can lead this country in a time of war, in a time of uncertainty, if you change your mind because of politics," Bush said.

Kerry used the situation in Iraq to answer a voter's question about him appearing "wishy-washy."

"The president didn't find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, so he's really turned his campaign into a weapon of mass deception," Kerry said before he sought to explain how his positions on the Patriot Act, education and job creation had not changed.

Kerry also charged that Bush has shortchanged homeland security in favor of tax cuts for the rich, and called the Iraq war a "catastrophic mistake."

"The world is more dangerous today because the president didn't make the right judgments," Kerry said. "So what does he do? He's trying to attack me. He wants you to believe that I can't be president."

Bush denied speculation that the draft would be revived and said that instead, U.S. troops would be repositioned around the world.

But Kerry said refusing to let National Guard and Reserve troops leave the service was a "back-door draft."

Bush was much more forceful in his replies than he appeared during the first debate, where his performance was said to have been bumpy and tentative. He began several of his answers by taking a punch at Kerry. (Special Report: The debates)

In a reference to the sour faces he was said to have made during the previous debate, Bush responded to one of Kerry's statements by saying, ""That answer made me almost want to scowl."

Under the town meeting format the two candidates answered selected questions that were submitted from an audience of uncommitted voters -- voters who lean toward one or the other candidates but could change their minds.

After clashing over U.S. policies in Iraq, Bush and Kerry were questioned about health care, the environment and tax policies.

Bush denied he was blocking cheaper medicines from Canada from flowing into the United States and said he was just trying to ensure medications were safe.

Kerry accused the president of protecting only the pockets of the drug makers.

"We're not talking about Third World drugs. We're talking about drugs made right here in the United States of America that have American brand names on them and American bottles," Kerry said.

Kerry vowed he would not raise taxes but would roll back the cuts for wealthier Americans "to the level we were at with Bill Clinton, when people made a lot of money."

Bush shot back that the senator's plan would not just squeeze the rich.

Jobs were also an issue in the debate after a government report released Friday said that U.S. employers added 96,000 to their payrolls in September, while the unemployment rate stayed unchanged at 5.4 percent.

Bush said the answer was "less regulations if we want jobs here; legal reform if we want jobs here; and we've got to keep taxes low." Kerry answered that he would give tax incentives for companies to stay in the United States using American workers.

Kerry dismissed the president's labeling of him as a tax-and-spend liberal.

"The president is just trying to scare everybody here with throwing labels around. I mean, "compassionate conservative," what does that mean? Cutting 500,000 kids from after-school programs, cutting 365,000 kids from health care, running up the biggest deficits in American history. Mr. President, you're batting 0 for 2," Kerry said.

Bush gave a new answer to a familiar question when he was asked what mistakes he has made in office. Previously, he said he couldn't think of any right off the top of head. But this time he was prepared.

"I made some mistakes in appointing people, but I'm not going to name them. I don't want to hurt their feelings on national TV."

But, he said several times, the decision to invade Iraq was not a mistake.

Going into the debate, a CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll showed the two candidates in a dead heat, with each polling at 49 percent among likely voters just 25 days before the election. (Special Report: America Votes 2004, Poll Tracker)

Bush and Kerry will meet for their third and final debate Wednesday in Tempe, Arizona. The subject of the face-off is to be domestic issues, such as the economy.

[DLR'sCock]

cnn online poll...

Who won the second presidential debate?

President Bush 29% 185076 votes

John Kerry 69% 445265 votes

Evenly matched 3% 18627 votes
Total: 648968 votes
:)

[DLR'sCock]

Three debates and three wins for Kerry-Edwards....


Maybe you guys can help George pack his bags?


I loved it when George rudely interrupted Mr Gibson and talked over him when he was tryign to move the debate along....

but then again he's the king right???

[diamondD]

I really don't pick my president based on his debating skills, I pick it on what he is going to do, or not do.

[Big Train]

I guess everybody missed the Lie/reponse to lie line of the night:

Kerry was going off on how W made something like 87 bucks in a tax credit thing for a lumber company he owns.

Bush looks at him with a WTF expression. He goes " I do? That's news to me. Anybody need some wood??".......CLASSIC...

All these doped polls are more signs of desperation. Playing wag the dog isn't gonna change anything. Kerry is getting killed. Bush scored knockouts on his Senate Record alone. For example:

K: I'm for lowering taxes for the middle class.
GW: You voted to raise them 200 times.

K: I'm for giving the troops what they need.
GW: He voted against the 87 billion to help them

The biggest problem for Kerry IS his Senate record. He can't hide from it and nobody can spin it as partisan politics. It's out there and it's ugly. 20 years ugly.

[Warham]

Bush was mad? He talked down to his audience?

What debate were these guys watching?

I call Bush's firm style conviction. I'd rather have a fuckin' human being as president than Mr. Roboto.

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by DLR'sCock
cnn online poll...

Who won the second presidential debate?

President Bush 29% 185076 votes

John Kerry 69% 445265 votes

:)

This is simply because paranoid democrats are sitting at home voting on internet polls, while republicans are out spending their hard earned money, enjoying the weekend and rejoycing over FOUR MORE YEARS...:D

[FORD]

I didn't understand the timber comapny reference myself. I think Kerry was going for a hypotetical situation and Junior, dumbass that he is, took it literally and cut him off, and then Chuckie Gibson, like his boss Michael Eisner, a Republican hack, wouldn't allow Kerry to finish his point.

[ELVIS]

Cut him off ???

You're lying!

I just watched it again, and what you said is just not true...

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by FORD
I didn't understand the timber comapny reference myself. I think Kerry was going for a hypotetical situation and Junior, dumbass that he is, took it literally and cut him off, and then Chuckie Gibson, like his boss Michael Eisner, a Republican hack, wouldn't allow Kerry to finish his point.

Ford, please. He said that Bush owned a lumber company.

[bueno bob]

My old lady had me watch it last night, I guess she had read the transcripts earlier...

Frankly, I don't think EITHER of these dudes are gonna win the election by a landslide. Just by what I saw, I think we're gonna have another "who's the man" like we did with Al & George 4 years back.

My guess is, it's gonna be close.

But, I don't give two shits about politics, I only wanna rock and roll, so that's all I gotta say about that! :)

[FORD]

Kerry: The pResident got $84 from a timber company that owns, and he's counted as a small business. Dick Cheney's counted as a small business. That's how they do things. That's just not right.

Bush: I own a timber company?

That's news to me.

Bush's Timber-Growing Company

Bush got a laugh when he scoffed at Kerry's contention that he had received $84 from "a timber company." Said Bush, "I own a timber company? That's news to me."

In fact, according to his 2003 financial disclosure form, Bush does own part interest in "LSTF, LLC", a limited-liability company organized "for the purpose of the production of trees for commercial sales."

So Bush was wrong to suggest that he doesn't have ownership of a timber company. And Kerry was correct in saying that Bush's definition of "small business" is so broad that Bush himself would have qualified as a "small business" in 2001 by virtue of the $84 in business income.
Kerry got his information from an article we posted Sept. 23 stating that Bush on his 2001 federal income-tax returns "reported $84 of business income from his part ownership of a timber-growing enterprise."

We should clarify: the $84 in Schedule C income was from Bush's Lone Star Trust, which is actually described on the 2001 income-tax returns as an "oil and gas production" business. The Lone Star Trust now owns 50% of the tree-growing company, but didn't get into that business until two years after the $84 in question. So we should have described the $84 as coming from an "oil and gas" business in 2001, and will amend that in our earlier article.

link (http://factcheck.org/article.aspx@docID=275.html)

[John Ashcroft]

Oh my God!!! "Part interest"???

I guess 90% of Americans can't be trusted with the Presidency! God forbid you actually invest in the stock market!

I guess only socialists qualify for federal service, right Ford? Oh, but the number one socialist running for President right now has made millions in this "corrupt" system of ours!

What to do, what to do...

[FORD]

I'll bet Junior owns more of that company than Teresa does of Heinz Ketchup.

[FORD]

BTW, didn't Junior claim at one point that he no longer had any financial interest in the oil business?

[ELVIS]

Too little, too late...

[Big Train]

It was my understanding he sold off that intrest in 01'....I'd like to see the author's source documents for the claims...Truthin or whatever nonsense this came from.

Either way, kerry was wrong, looked like a total idiot. It was a classic moment.

[FORD]

Face it guys... Junior's down 0-2 in debates. I predict October Surprise on Tuesday and for Junior to chickenshit his way out of debate loss #3.

[Big Train]

Unless of course, he can get a more sophisticated wi-fi system up his back which will project Rove's voice , sounding like Jr. ....Please Ford.

Care to wager about the October suprise? If nothing happens, you have to post NOTHING but conservative articles for a week....minimum of 10 threads. Think it over...

[FORD]

If there's no October surprise then all the conservative articles after Bush loses on November 2 should be pure comedy ;)


And Junior.... he'll still be saying "I don't know... (http://mfile.akamai.com/8082/wmv/democratic1.download.akamai.com/8082/video/idontknow/idontknow.asx) "

[Big Train]

won't back up what you say then I take it??

[FORD]

How many conservative articles could I find in a week? I don't think Pat Buchanan publishes that frequently, and these neocon shitbags who are all over the media today, they aren't conservatives.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by FORD
I'll bet Junior owns more of that company than Teresa does of Heinz Ketchup.

Your idiocy is confirmed. :gulp:

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by FORD
Face it guys... Junior's down 0-2 in debates.

If it makes you feel better to feel that way......;)

[DLR'sCock]

Originally posted by ELVIS
This is simply because paranoid democrats are sitting at home voting on internet polls, while republicans are out spending their hard earned money, enjoying the weekend and rejoycing over FOUR MORE YEARS...:D


Mother Fucker, I worked all weekend and I went out!!!!!!!!:D

I also saw the Mighty King's X this weekend, and I met Nuno Bettancourt and Ty Tabor, and I got mighty drunk too!!!!!


Here's to working and partying!!!!!!



It's more like 4 more minutes...


Georgie will need you to help him pack his bags....

[Dr. Love]

I watched the debate last night (I had recorded it for when I'd have time to seriously pay attention).


It seemed to me that at the beginning, the President looked very angry. He blinked a LOT (which I think he does when he gets pissed) and paced around talking down to the audience about how foolish and naive it would be to listen to what Kerry had to say. He also would jump out of his chair when Kerry was done, sometimes talking over the moderator -- or talking him down -- so he could say something and make a point. It didn't look that good. About halfway into the debate, Bush regained his calm and presented himself and his arguments much better.

Kerry was fairly articulate, composed and in control of himself during the debate. He had a lot more style in his responses and addressed the audience in a much more presidential way. Kerry has a bad habit of nodding when his opponent is making a point about him. He also started jumping out of his chair and asking (at least he asked and didn't demand, like the President) to make his case, near the end.

I also had to wonder what they were writing down during each other's alotted time to speak. Kerry seemed to know everyone's name who asked a question, so I assume he was writing that sort of thing down so he could look like he was really connecting with the audience.

In terms of style and looking presidential, I think easily won (given the President's early stomping and angry near-shouting).

However, I think this debate has made me much more likely to vote for Bush. Bush had the right message, he had the right ideas and he was (mostly ... not entirely) being truthful (I almost spit out my water when Bush called himself a Steward of the Land).

I just don't believe Kerry won't raise my taxes, and that's one of the most important issues to me. I want my damn money. Of course, I don't like amazingly huge deficits, but I don't see how Bush or Kerry can deliver on their promises and cut those in half (which they were asked repeatedly about but never seemed to answer), so I'm still uncommitted. We'll see what the next debate has.

[Dr. Love]

Also, I happen to wish at this point that Howard Dean would have been the Democrat's nominee. I think it would be entirely hilarious to watch Bush and Dean up on stage getting progressively more pissed at each other and yelling and yeeeeaarrrrr!!!ing

[Katydid]

Originally posted by Dr. Love
Also, I happen to wish at this point that Howard Dean would have been the Democrat's nominee. I think it would be entirely hilarious to watch Bush and Dean up on stage getting progressively more pissed at each other and yelling and yeeeeaarrrrr!!!ing

I want to have your baby Dr. Love !!!

[Katydid]

I like President Bush. I was a democrat then I changed parties a few years back.

President Bush might not be a polished lawyer, debator or speaker...like Kerry...

But he is a good man and prays every day. He is against abortion and gay marriages...and stem cell rush.

He creates jobs and fights against terrorists. I'd rather fight them on their soil than ours...

Any military person will tell you that. You'd do well to support our troops and stop acting like Jane Fonda.

You bleeding heart liberal draftdodgers.

[Katydid]

Originally posted by Katydid
I want to have your baby Dr. Love !!!


Elvis, you and Dr Love stop editing my posts right now...

[Katydid]

They use embryos and aborted babies for stem cell research. Kerry is also for abortions for mothers up into the late trimesters of pregnancy. He just is a slick talker and skirts the issues.

I tell you what, I bet Bush could knock knots on his head faster than he could rub them if he got mad.

I have Walker and Spencer both in my family tree...

So Kerry you horizonal eyebrow pouty bitch cover your balls.

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by Katydid
Elvis, you and Dr Love stop editing my posts right now...


Act like a human being in this forum and everything will be fine between us...

Your last trwo posts were just fine...

That other crap will not be tolerated...

BTW, I didn't delete it, I repositioned it...

[fanofdave]

i thought the best comment of the night was when
Bush mentioned how poorly the van halen tour was
doing without David Lee Roth at lead vocals. then
Kerry tries to outdo Bush by saying he supports a
backstreet boys reunion tour......what a schmuck.

[Katydid]

Undercut to the chin and Kerry would break like a china teacup.

Interest rates are down so people can buy houses...Kerry said he would raise them when he got into office.

Money spent on the war is going to our soldiers and their families...not just the Iraq military....as democrats go around saying...

The world is better off with dictator Hussien...I guess Kerry would try to talk him out of power????

I got sick of hearing about the UN mess for so long as did any Americans with any patriotic spirit. UN inspectors paid their kids thru college with money paid for that farce...

The Iraq people are much better off as is Afganistan. As in the old west they are beginning to get civilized. Only a few outsiders Taliban and Alchida are causing the trouble.

Hussien spending all the people's food money from oil on his 12 or how many???palaces much better than the White House...

His son loading billions in his car, money flying around... now his supporters have conterfiet money...

Every time you take up for the terrorists you just make them a little stronger.

[Katydid]

Originally posted by fanofdave
i thought the best comment of the night was when
Bush mentioned how poorly the van halen tour was
doing without David Lee Roth at lead vocals. then
Kerry tries to outdo Bush by saying he supports a
backstreet boys reunion tour......what a schmuck.

:D Hey fan of dave...you have always stuck by me when the going got rough in the wall till now....

;) when they broke up my and your Sunday Bible verses...with porn.

[fanofdave]

peace be with you, katydid.
now stop trying to bring so
much attention to yourself.

[Katydid]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
Ford, please. He said that Bush owned a lumber company.


Hell, Kerry owns Heinz ketcup and who knows what else is in her billion dollar empire...I'm sure she branches out ....

Just more well hidden....(Kerry being a lawyer)

[Katydid]

Kerry will be like Saddam Hussein soon. Hiding all the taxpayers money into accounts. Skirting and talking his way around explanations. Paying people off ....

[Katydid]

Rich get richer, the poor get poorer. Rich people get stem cell...babies are aborted to make it possible.

Mother Mary said the mother's wombs are becoming the concentration camps of the world.

[Katydid]

Originally posted by fanofdave
peace be with you, katydid.
now stop trying to bring so
much attention to yourself.

Ok, I'm settling down and getting over my mad spell...

Sorry for the scowls....:D