Bodies of babies found in Saddam's 'killing field'

[lucky wilbury]

http://www.thisislondon.com/news/articles/14004914?source=Evening%20Standard

Bodies of babies found in Saddam's 'killing field'
By Joe Murphy, Evening Standard Political Editor
13 October 2004

A mass grave containing the bodies of children, babies and their mothers has been unearthed in Iraq.

Shocked investigators reported finding "thighbones the size of matchsticks" at what they believe is the site of one of Saddam Hussein's atrocities. Among the findings-were the skeletons of unborn babies and toddlers clutching toys.

A baby had been shot in the back of its head and was found still being clutched by its mother, who had been shot in the face. The discovery was reported as Tony Blair came under mounting pressure to apologise to Parliament for the misleading intelligence claiming Saddam had weapons of mass destruction.

It will strengthen the Prime Minister's case that despite the intelligencefailures the war to topple the Iraqi dictator was justified by his record as a mass killer of his own people. Mr Blair is facing MPs for the first time since the Iraq Survey Group report last week admitted there were no illegal chemical and biological weapons in Iraq.

Liberal Democrat leader Charles

Kennedy demanded he make a full Commons statement on the findings but Mr Blair was hoping to escape by merely answering questions at his regular weekly appearance.

The mass grave was being excavated near Hatra, a village in northern Iraq with a large Kurdish population. US-led investigators have located nine trenches so far containing hundreds of bodies, believed to be Kurds killed during the repression of the Eighties. The bodies had been bulldozed into the ground.

Evidence from the graves will be used at the Iraqi Special Tribunal where Saddam will face trial for war crimes. "It is my personal opinion that this is a killing field," said Greg Kehoe, a US official. "Someone used this field on significant occasions over time to take people up there and execute them."

One trench contains only women and children while another contains only men. "The youngest foetus we have was 18 to 20 foetal weeks," said a US investigating anthropologist. "Tiny bones, femurs - thighbones the size of a matchstick."

Some 300,000 people are thought to have been killed during Saddam's regime. Iraq's human rights ministry has reportedly identified 40 possible mass graves across the country.

Meanwhile, Saddam underwent an operation to repair a hernia about 10 days ago and has made a full recovery, Iraqi sources said today.

He has been in US custody since 13 December and appeared in court in July for a preliminary hearing.

[JCOOK]

Does this even surprise anyone?

[Angel]

Of course not, it's something we already knew, and pretty much goes without saying.

[Big Train]

I'm waiting to hear how this was "planted" evidence by BCE operatives somehow...

[Angel]

I'm more inclined to think that Ford will be thinking along the same lines as me:

"um, no kidding... tell us something new now, would you?"

[Big Train]

Yea, cause dead babies and all are kinda boring...let's focus on exciting stuff like the non-news of Cheney's tax returns where nothing illegal has been found. Mass atrocities and clear human rights violations are so blah...

[ODShowtime]

This is non-news. It's absolutely horrifying, but it's non-news. A man who is known to have had people thrown into vats of acid obviously didn't care how old his victims were.

[ELVIS]

So it's just "non-news"...

George Bush should have left Saddam in power...:rolleyes:

[Big Train]

Because it's known, it's non-news? Why is something that can be demonstrated and proven as fact less "newsworthy" than circumstancial evidence and rumor?

I thought news was reporting facts, at least in theory...

[ODShowtime]

Guys, everything I say isn't pro-Kerry or anti-bush. Saddam, 'the one who confronts', has been making a mockery of humanity longer than I have inhabited this planet. I am merely saying that anyone who exercises logic already knows that the SOB killed everyone who got in his way. I've seen pictures of mothers clutching babies and both were gassed... in '88 or so. God rest their poor souls.

But if you try to spin these 'newly discovered' facts so that it gives bush yet another new reason why it was OK that he invaded Iraq, then you are engaging in revisionist history. bush himself was quite aware that Saddam would kill anyone in his way. He should have stuck with that instead of citing faulty intelligence.

Train and Elvis, are either one of you surprised that they found baby bones in a mass grave? Answer truthfully...

Is anyone surprised?

[Guitar Shark]

Nobody questions that Saddam was a tyrant. However, that was not the reason given by the administration for why we needed to go to war with Iraq. It was only used as an additional justification after the fact. This story has no relevance to the election whatsoever.

[ELVIS]

Yes, I'm suprised...

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Yes, I'm suprised...

buddy, that's the difference between me and you

I'm not surprised. That motherfucker was an animal. An animal that has been sponsored by some of the very same people you support.

Anything goes when you are an animal and you are looking out for your own neck. All humans act like this, not just mean Arabs.

[Big Train]

OD,

Where is the spin in this? Nobody in this thread has tried to spin in the way you imply. However, since you picked that path, why isn't a good thing that we stopped this? People who spin it are the ones who say "This is going on elsewhere and we didn't stop it". Yay. Here, today, in this piece of dirt, it stops. If that doesn't count for something, I don't know what to tell ya...

Am I suprised,no. He was a useless piece of carbon causing lots of problems on this planet.

OD, what are you looking for ? That there were a multitude of reasons to go in there doesn't seem good enough to you, you seem to want to only have one reason to go in there. Why is stopping this not valid?

[ODShowtime]

I guess my posts here are more of an idictment of the human condition than gw&friends


I'd like to know the motivation behind lucky posting it really. I think he likes to watch us all bat the ball around.

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by ODShowtime

I'm not surprised. That motherfucker was an animal. An animal that has been sponsored by some of the very same people you support.



And democrats are out of such a loop, for lack of a better word ??

Necessity makes for strange bedfellows...

What happened 20-30 years ago has little to do with today...

[Guitar Shark]

Originally posted by ELVIS

What happened 20-30 years ago has little to do with today...

Careful what you say there, as this mass grave supposedly dates back to Saddam's repression against the Kurds in the 80s...

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Guitar Shark
Careful what you say there, as this mass grave supposedly dates back to Saddam's repression against the Kurds in the 80s...

nice

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Necessity makes for strange bedfellows...

Necessity... do we need to fucking be strung out on Middle East oil? Is that the ONLY ANSWER???

[Big Troubles]

Originally posted by lucky wilbury


Meanwhile, Saddam underwent an operation to repair a hernia about 10 days ago and has made a full recovery, Iraqi sources said today.

He has been in US custody since 13 December and appeared in court in July for a preliminary hearing.

I wonder who paid for this operation?

[ODShowtime]

me!


hmmmmm....... hernia operation let's guess $20,000/294,509,608 people in the US right now (http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/popclock) =
shnap that's 6.79 times e to the 5th power dollars down the shitter for Saddam.

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
Necessity... do we need to fucking be strung out on Middle East oil? Is that the ONLY ANSWER???

Yes!

At the present time, OIL is the life blood of western civilization, and the American dream...

If you believe otherwise, you're sorely mistaken...

How much gas did you pump into your vehicle this week ??

[Big Troubles]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Yes!

At the present time, OIL is the life blood of western civilization, and the American dream...

If you believe otherwise, you're sorely mistaken...

How much gas did you pump into your vehicle this week ??

you sing it. You're not alone. Money makes AND breaks the world. Oil is/was the only serious interest that ANY nation in this world looked at when they looked at the Middle East. They offer nothing else. Except of course our pitty.

[Big Troubles]

Stupid question maybe, but since Canada imports our oil, and I do believe the US does as well, and the cost of oil is going up continuously, then why do either nation just use its own resources?

Canada has Alberta. And recently realised had ALOT of it.
United Staes has Texas?

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Yes!

At the present time, OIL is the life blood of western civilization, and the American dream...

If you believe otherwise, you're sorely mistaken...

How much gas did you pump into your vehicle this week ??

Do you understand how scientific innovation works? How it really works without political bullshit?

Do you know how long the combustion engine has been the predominant mode of personal transortation in our country?

My old man himself was born before man ever set foot on the moon. And he tells me that the only way you can move a couple tons with a self contained engine is with petrolium products. BULLSHIT.

It was less than 100 years ago that the US Navy bought wireless communications gear off of that Italian guy.

Now we can talk to people across the globe with a handheld device.

BUT WE NEED TO DIG UP THE SQUISHED REMAINS OF JUNGLES AND ANIMALS AND BURN IT TO MAKE HEAT TO MAKE ENGINES GO?

Bullshit. The sun radiates enough heat to make all the plants in the world grow. The tides, geothermal energy, gravity...

BULLSHIT.

[Big Troubles]

holy fuck, you just became the second smartest man I know! :D

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Big Troubles
holy fuck, you just became the second smartest man I know! :D

(I hope you're talking to me an not E)

That's because I just finished playing power hour by myself :)

You appear to be Canadian. You understand my logical statements. Cheers to you my friend from the North.

[Big Troubles]

yes I was talking to you. :D your witty and I do believe our cosmic stars are aligned. In a NON homo-erotic way. I like me womens. But :cheers:

[Cathedral]

Those mass graves are a direct result of Daddy Bush's Gulf War, believe that.
Those people were killed for uprising against the government, their families probably were executed first, then the men after having been made to witness their families executions.

Lets not glaze over the reason we went to war this time. Sure, the reasons didn't pan out, but that wasn't President Bush's fault.
It was faulty intelligence, not only by our standards, but by the standards of many Nations.
Bush was duped the same as we all were on this issue, but after getting over that hurdle, we have to look at all the evidence of Saddam's intentions.
In my opinion, Saddam was a Weapon of Mass Destruction himself, but i find no pleasure, or even a reason to ignore the suffering of any human on this planet because this planet is bigger than the U.S. itself.

If for no other reason, we removed Saddam as a humanitarian jesture that could also prove to provide security to our Nation as well as others by eliminating his ability and opportunity to put weapons in the hands of those who wish to "Bring Us To Our Knee's".

I'm not surprised of what was found in those graves, i expected that from a brutal dictator such as Hussein.
What does surprise me is how little some Americans feel for the suffering and torture people outside our borders have to endure.

The people in Iraq have an opportunity they could only have dreamed of until now, and i thank God that we have a President who finally addressed the issue of human suffering by the hands of a brutal regime.

Saddam could have come clean and proven he didn't have weapons, but he didn't, he thumbed his nose at the world again and we called him on it. he was bluffing, and he bluffed himself right out of power.

Diplomacy wasn't given a chance?
BULLSHIT...I saw Bush do damn near everything he was asked to do to gain more support. But anyone who thinks that he would have gotten it no matter what he did are just plain wrong.

12 years of Diplomacy failed, people, plain and simply, it failed.

But i ask you, why all of this interest from other Nations to out Bush this election?
I'll tell you why...
Because they don't want an America that is strong, they want an America that they can continue to bowl over as they have since Clinton took office.
They became used to an America that appeases everyone, an America that would alter it's foreign policy if we got hit hard enough.
Clinton set a standard that the Terrorists just loved in Somalia when he pulled out and ran with his tail between his legs.

Folks, That is not the America our soldiers throughout history have given blood and life for.
Sure it would be nice if the tree huggers vision that we got where we are without having to fight wars to provide and/or maintain it, but that just isn't the case.

In closing i'll add that if not a single solitary body is ever dumped in another mass grave in Iraq....The actions of America ARE justified, albeit a decade late.
For those who care nothing about anyone outside our borders, or the hell they have to endure, nothing will ever justify it in your mind.
But you also show that you live in a dream world where the world is perfect and conflict never happened.

Sorry, But what we are doing in Iraq is good work and must be completed by any means necessary so we can move on to the next target in the war on terror.

I'm not ignorant enough to think we will never be attacked again, But a man like Kerry in our White House will only bring it on sooner because he just doesn't get it. He's what i call a European Union President, where he won't do anything if our allies do not agree, even after an attack.

It's the people of this world that are important to me, not the presence or lack of WMD in Iraq, and the Iraqi's are better off on the road they are currently traveling with America and it's Coalition of believers in the War On Terror.

******************************************
DISCLAIMER:
This is MY opinion no matter if you agree with it or not. YOU cannot change MY opinion while sharing your own, but I will not hold your difference of opinion against you.
So, if you want a fighting chance for us to have a future at all, support President Bush on Nov. 2nd.

If not, find a neighbor who is heavily armed, you're gonna need them.

Thanks!

[Big Troubles]

LOL

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Big Troubles
yes I was talking to you. :D your witty and I do believe our cosmic stars are aligned. In a NON homo-erotic way. I like me womens. But :cheers:

and we both like women too. what a coincidence!




I guess this doesn't really fit the tone of this thread. Fuckin' a man. little kids. There's gotta be reincarnation.

Well, Cathedral, your post was not without merit. I just think that the people on the law enforcement job are gonna get the job done with or without gw and that gw&friends' interests don't help anything.

[Sgt Schultz]

This does have relavemce for this election because if it had been up to John Kerry and the Flegmocrats - Saddam would still be torturing and murdering people. Plus he'd also still be bribing UN officials and diplomats of Euopean countries.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz
This does have relavemce for this election because if it had been up to John Kerry and the Flegmocrats - Saddam would still be torturing and murdering people. Plus he'd also still be bribing UN officials and diplomats of Euopean countries.

There's a couple way to go with this one Shultz. The easiest is to say that if Saddam was still torturing and murdering people, then the US wouldn't have to.

Over and over the US leaders have turned a blind eye to genocide and "evil" when it didn't fit their strategic interests.

If our justification for war was to stop an evil dictator, than we still have a lot of work to do around the world...

[Sgt Schultz]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
There's a couple way to go with this one Shultz. The easiest is to say that if Saddam was still torturing and murdering people, then the US wouldn't have to.

Over and over the US leaders have turned a blind eye to genocide and "evil" when it didn't fit their strategic interests.

If our justification for war was to stop an evil dictator, than we still have a lot of work to do around the world...

Dude, that was ONE reason, among many. You can't just cherry pick ONE reason and then say "Well, they why not this country..?". Do we have to go over this again? Don't even attempt to equate a little humiliation and discomfort that some poor little terrorists had to suffer in jail with the systematic torture, mutilation and murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent people. The sense of proportion you guys have is so out of whack its unbelievable.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz
Don't even attempt to equate a little humiliation and discomfort that some poor little terrorists had to suffer in jail with the systematic torture, mutilation and murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent people. The sense of proportion you guys have is so out of whack its unbelievable.

From what I've read (neither of us were there) we would apply these "interrogation techniques" to anyone we picked up off the streets! Anyone!!!!

Our commanders were so desperate for human intel that they tried to create a network of shamed informants. Who put us into a position where that was necessary? GW.

It's fucking disgusting and pathetic and to gloss over it and it's full implications shows that you need to adjust your sense of proportion. MILLIONS of Arabs have a real good reason to hate us now. Many more than before this war. We fucked ourselves good and you should be able to see that.