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Big Train
10-18-2004, 08:31 PM
http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/bowlingforcolumbine/scenes/canada.html

After over an hour spent on the horrors of the United States, Moore switches to the peaceful utopian poppy field and candy cane tolerant and docile society of Canada. He begins by arguing that Canada and the United States are very similar — except that Canada has a generous welfare state, and no culture of fear.


It is quite apparent to anyone that Canada is a fairly decent, pleasant and safe place to live*. However, Moore makes this argument under the comparison of saying that the US is not, and often distorts both sides to make each point. Indeed the largest critics of Moore's Canadian Utopia are average Canadian citizens who have to put up with the Canadian government, something he, as an American millionaire doesn't have to do. I get their e-mails every week, and a lot of Canadian citizens are responsible for pointing me towards the facts I learned on this page.
Most people don't know that Bowling for Columbine was produced by a Canadian company out of Halifax, Nova Scotia called Salter Street Films. This company is awash in Canadian Government funding, so it may or may not be interesting information to you that this anti-American film was produced with Canadian government money. It is no mistake that the film goes out of its way to praise Canada and blame America.
_
Guns in Canada

A key Canadian comparison argument of Moore's is that Canada is a country dripping with guns guns guns, and still don't have anywhere near our rate of gun murder. While it's true that Canada does have a lot of guns compared to England or Japan, Canada's per-capita gun ownership rate is about a third of the American level. An impression few would gather from Moore's constant depiction of Canada being such a 'nation of hunters' and his interviews with gun owners where he does not point out that they are not as abundant as the impression he's conveying.

Comparing U.S. gun-death totals with Canada's, Moore offers a U.S. total that includes death by legal intervention (i.e., a violent felon being shot by a police officer) which is totally dishonest to the argument he's making. But what is more important to this distortion is that he omits this same category from the Canadian total to further stack thedeck in his favor. -Not very honest.
_

Race in Canada


Moore says there are lots of black people in Canada and to prove it - he shows us!!

Yes, Moore actually shows 3 ethnic minority women walking down the street with the caption 'Toronto Canada' as if to say "SEE! I told you they're here!" Not something that catches one's attention on the first view, the shot displays the juvenile thought process of Michael Moore in a very unintentionally amusing shot.


In fact - this theme is continued in the ensuing scene about Canada. Moore tells us that Canada's black population is the same as the US, but it's not. So how then did he run into so many that we saw on camera there? Well, while it is true that Canada has very few black people, in the province of Ontario (which borders Michigan, where Moore visited for that scene) there are actually high amounts of blacks. Ontario even had a black Lt. Governor at one time. Almost all of Canada's 3% black population lives in the province of Ontario.

The rest of Canada isn't so diverse. In places like British Columbia for example, there are virtually no blacks. In fact, pretty much anywhere outside of the province of Ontario, Canada has barely any significant black population. But this isn't the impression we were given, because Moore only visited ONE part of the country during this part of the movie and judged the entire nation on it.


Think for a second just how ridiculous that is... Michael Moore based his entire assessment of Canada's race by visiting one city of one province... Canada is the second-biggest country in the world, and has a very diverse range of cities. The idea that Moore could accurately racially profile the entire nation of Canada, and its attitudes and culture, by visiting one province and one city makes about as much sense as it would for me to visit one city in New Mexico and draw all my conclusiions about United States society based solely on what I saw there. But then again - he DOES show us that picture of those 3 women in Toronto, so I guess he must be right after all...

Race & Crime



Moore says we're being tricked by a racist media into fearing minorities when there's nothing to be afraid of and also brags about Canada's tiny crime rate. However, blacks and Hispanics, who are involved in well over 50 percent of American homicides (both as victims and as perpetrators) make up about 2.5 percent of the Canadian population. In the United States, each group makes up about one-eighth of the U.S. population.
_



Unlocked doors






We see Moore, in Toronto, expressing his amazement that people in this city don't lock their doors. He even goes to a few doors, tries them, and, sure enough, they are not locked. But if Moore wanted to find places where you can leave the door unlocked, he didn't need to leave the U.S. I do that now. David Hardy in his own dissection of BFC says he does as well and did so when he lived in the Washington DC metropolitan area, at a time when it was the homicide capital of the U.S. Hardy says:



"I lived in a suburb where crime was close to unknown, and locking the doors when you were home was just an obstacle to going outside. And, no, it wasn't a fancy gated community populated by millionaires. A Hispanic family lived across the street, a fellow government worker next to me, a Navy vet diagonally across from me."


But the point is that we see here that Toronto is a safe haven. Only problem is that it isn't.


An article in the London Free Press (11/2/02) refers to "Bloody Sunday" in Toronto in which there were, recently, "four frightening fatal shootings.... four shocking murders" in one night. Did I just say shootings?! Yep, these murders were committed with guns.


An article in Canada's National Post (11/28/02) says:

Toronto's recent wave of street murders -- more than 40 since the beginning of 2001 -- debunks the claim that Ottawa's gun registry is making Canadians safer from crime.... Nearly all of the Toronto murders have been committed with handguns. Yet the guns have been subject to registration since 1934. In fact, registration has done nothing to stem the use of handguns in murder: In the past 15 years, the proportion of all firearm murders committed with handguns has nearly doubled in Canada from just over one-third to nearly two-thirds.


Moreover, by all measures, it appears that Canada's handgun registry is a dismal failure in solving crimes. As in the States, cops find guns used in crime when they find the criminals.


Canada's glorious healthcare system



Moore likes it. Should you? Do they? Moore says so. In an interview with Tim Russert on CNBC (10/19/02), Moore says that, unlike in America,

"there's a Canadian ethic that says that if one of us gets sick, we have a collective responsibility to help that person, make sure they have a doctor... they have a society that's not based on a mean-spiritedness or a punishment factor, especially when you become poor."

Larry Pratt on Gunowners.org:
It's this alleged American attitude, he adds, which creates "a climate that allows for an enormous amount of violence."


To, supposedly, show the greatness of Canada's health care system, BFC shows Moore talking to a man, somewhere in Canada, coming out of an emergency room. His face is banged up, stitches in his scalp. Moore asks him: How much were you charged? The man says he had to pay nothing.





Sounds pretty good. Looks pretty good. What are we missing here? Pratt continues with some testimonials:




A little more in-depth look at Canada's health care system by people who know what they are talking about, gives us a slightly different picture than does Moore's wretched movie. A National Public Radio report (12/4/2002) tells us that health care in Canada is "in somewhat of a crisis." Says Brian Lee Crowley, president of the Atlantic Institute For Market Studies: "We have created in Canada a health care system which is a public sector monopoly. Monopolies don't care whether you get good service, and they don't care whether they get good value because you don't have any choice as to where you go."



A column by Andrew Coyne in the Halifax Daily News (12/1/02) quotes Roy Romanow as admitting that "Canada spends $100 billion a year on health care, but no one really knows if that money is used effectively." Romanow, the former premier of Saskatchewan, headed a group that recently issued a Royal Commission report on Canada's health care system.



The Calgary Herald (11/29/02) quotes Gerry Nicholls, vice-president of the National Citizens Coalition, as saying: "As long as health care is a government monopoly, the problems of long waiting lists, outdated equipment and a shortage of doctors will continue. Canada doesn't need more of the same. We need fresh answers that inject competition and choice into our health care system."


Wrong on poverty

Moore dismisses typical liberal concerns about poverty creating crime, noting that:

"Liberals contend [gun violence is a result of] all the poverty we have here. But the unemployment rate in Canada is twice what we have here."





But by every measure of international comparison however, Canada's poverty rate is significantly lower than that of the U.S., thanks to the generous social insurance programs that he repeatedly praises in the film.

Crime in Canada

In Bowling Michael Moore would have you believe that Canada is a crime free utopia. Larry Pratt from Gunowners.org looks at a shot where Moore asks a policeman in Windsor, Ontario, if he's ever heard of anyone shot in Windsor? Answer: "No." Any murders-by-gun? Answer: "Fifteen to 20 years ago." Says Moore: Therefore, there are "no Canadians shooting other Canadians" in the Windsor area which has about 400,000 people.



But, as Pratt details on his website, once again, this is wrong. The Canadian Press Newswire (3/17/2000), datelined Windsor, Ontario, reports two convictions for murder and one for attempted murder. The weapon used in these murders and attempted murder on December 4, 1997, was "a silver revolver."



But perhaps that's a little nit-picky. Mr. Pratt's research just proves that policeman didn't remember that incident. With all reasonability, Moore's generalization is essentially correct. However, the generalized representation is either very dishonest or very uninformed.

The conversation and comment is about guns, but the argument of the scene is that Canadians aren't killing each other - not that they aren't shooting each other. After all, the dead don't care what killed them. Moore illustrates this point in the unlocked doors sequence and makes it clear when he says the reasons Americans kill each other is because they are pumped with fear from the media and Canadians aren't (what he really means is 'the news' not 'the media' because of course he admits that Canadians watch our movies, listen to our music and play our same video games).



But reality in Canada is a little different than Moore's fictitious portrayal. Indeed There have been other horrible crimes of violence in Windsor besides a 1997 shooting, but Moore doesn't count or mention them, because they did not involve guns - which, as I said, is a very dishonest manipulation since his thesis here is really on violence in general; guns just being an example. In another Canadian Press Newswire story (3/2/2000), also datelined Windsor, Ontario, we're told of a woman who killed her abusive husband by plunging a 7.5 centimeter paring knife into his chest.

Yet another Canadian Press Newswire story (2/2/01), datelined Windsor, Ontario, we're told of a man convicted of second degree murder for torturing and killing a co-worker who he beat, hog-tied and nearly decapitated with a serrated knife - yikes.


The truth is that the nation of Canada indeed has a very high crime rate, and in some places, has some of the worst drug problems in North America. They have real slums, with real poverty and real violence with real dead people in every bit of abundance as the States below them.

Unfortunately for the world, the Canada in Bowling For Columbine simply does not exist.

Angel
10-19-2004, 06:43 PM
There is some truth in here, and some of your facts are WAY off!

Gun deaths are low, but stabbings are on the rise. What's this bullshit about their being no blacks outside of Toronto? I won't mention that to the huge Caribbean and African people right here in Edmonton.

Our health care is DEFINITELY in trouble, but I'm still alive thanks to not having to pay for my 3 thoracic surgeries, or for my bi-annual ECG's. Govt needs to open more hospital beds, and provide better incentives to doctors.

Drug problems? If our own RCMP would concentrate more on stopping the cocaine that comes over the US/Can border, instead of concentrating on stopping weed from entering the US, our drug problems would be a lot better, although Vancouver is a disgusting city! - I hate it!!!

No, Canada's not perfect, but my family has enjoyed living here since before it was even called Canada, I think I'll stay! :D

Big Train
10-19-2004, 07:05 PM
Believe me, nobody is asking you to leave!!

I just wanted to point out that Canada is not perfect, so that when you are ranting from on high, realize you ain't that high...

scorpioboy33
10-19-2004, 08:24 PM
why are blacks blamed so often for crime like they have a defect or something?

Big Train
10-19-2004, 08:35 PM
I don't think your characterization is correct scorp. Minorities have a higher overall percentage of crime in the US. It isn't a black/white thing, it is a class warfare thing. Poor people get involved in crime, white and black.

scorpioboy33
10-19-2004, 08:36 PM
Moore says we're being tricked by a racist media into fearing minorities when there's nothing to be afraid of and also brags about Canada's tiny crime rate. However, blacks and Hispanics, who are involved in well over 50 percent of American homicides (both as victims and as perpetrators) make up about 2.5 percent of the Canadian population. In the United States, each group makes up about one-eighth of the U.S. population.



i was just talking about this quote never mind than :)

Big Train
10-19-2004, 08:50 PM
Nothing racist about it. My statement stands.

Moore (like most dems) makes class warfare arguments racial ones (thereby creating themselves a "hero of the people" role). It is classic stuff moore has just turned into film.

It is fair to say that the media focuses on crime too much, but only cause we find it fascinating.

scorpioboy33
10-19-2004, 09:12 PM
well I hope that evenually minorities will not account for so many of the poor

Kristy
10-19-2004, 09:31 PM
Okay first off, Moore is a cunt, end of argument. The FAT fuck has rarely told the truth about - anything. I went to college with a girl who went to Columbine during the shootings and Moore wanted to interview her under the guise that some of of those students were shot solely for their religious beliefs. Within 4 minutes of the intereview with her (for which Moore was "documenting" for his 'Bowling for Columbine' bullshit) he suddenly changed the topic to gun control to which he said, "If America had strictor gun control laws, would your friend still be alive?"

Moore has no objectible conscience whatsoever. He tells you what to think.


As for Canada - I lived there for about 8 months in Manitoba and never seen so much in the way of racism. Moore, being wrong as he usually is, the "racism" I witnessed there wasn't against blacks but the native Indians. "Prairie ******s" they called them. "They are the fucking scum of Canada." I was floored for this type of mindset was generally accepted where I was and nobody ever really questioned it.

Moore has very little insight or knowledge of American history much less what is going on in Canada.

Angel
10-20-2004, 12:25 PM
You're right on the mark when it comes to the way we treat our native Indians, Kristy. It's fucking disgusting, and Manitoba is one of the worst! We were recently chastised by Amnesty International for our attitudes towards native females, and crimes against them.

Moore does, however, know more about Canada than your average American citizen, which doesn't necessarily say very much! :D

hard rock
10-20-2004, 01:20 PM
im from canada and it aint perfect its just maybe a little more cleaner and safer than some other us cities but it aint perfect. oh and by the way canada is no longer the second largest country in the world. its now the biggest after the soviet union broke into little countries etc

Big Train
10-20-2004, 01:35 PM
Whats to know Angel?

Do tell...

Kristy
10-20-2004, 01:44 PM
Oh, don't get me wrong, I personally love Canada (even though it's so friggin' big) despite all the anti-Americanism I went through while there. Most of the racism (if you can call it that) came from people who were really young say, 14-21-ish; it's really scary to see that no one ever questioned it.

On the other hand, I'm not sure what's Moore's deal with Canada is. Like you say, the place is far from perfect and Canada has it's hands in just as much foreign policy and/or government corruption as America. Just because the don't have guns doesn't mean there isn't violence or murders going on there as you have already established.

I don't know what I'm saying here except that Moore should do his homework before opening his mouth. For on a global scale most murders per capita are NOT caused by guns - someone should tell Moore to take a look at the slaughter that went on in Rwanda sometime. But hey, that's in Africa and no one gives a fuck about his fat ass over there.

Angel
10-20-2004, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by hard rock
im from canada and it aint perfect its just maybe a little more cleaner and safer than some other us cities but it aint perfect. oh and by the way canada is no longer the second largest country in the world. its now the biggest after the soviet union broke into little countries etc

Yes, Canada is still the second largest country in the world. Russia is the biggest.

Angel
10-20-2004, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
Whats to know Angel?

Do tell...

Let's see, we all live in igloos and do nothing all day except for collect welfare cheques, visit doctors for free, play hockey and drink beer. ;)

Angel
10-20-2004, 02:46 PM
Our Canada is not two founding nations or three, but is rather a “work in progress” of the Aboriginal people, followed by the people from throughout the world who have chosen to make Canada their home. In our Canada, the cultural costume of a person is not worn as a foreign national symbol, but as a projection of individuality and ancestral respect. A person’s cultural dress is not meant as a sign that the person’s sense of pride in Canada is diminished, but rather accentuates and adds to a proud tradition of the Canadian multicultural mix. Our Canada has no national cultural costume, for the cultural mosaic of Canada is far too complex to describe, let alone tailor.

Our Canada’s cultural identity as a nation is not English or French. They are the two official languages we speak; an important aspect of our uniqueness in the world of nations. Our Canada's cultural identity is not determined by language. Our Canada does not have English provinces and French provinces, but has both languages spoken in all provinces. Our Canada’s culture is not one specific heritage, but is rather a wonderful collective heritage mix that we now proudly call Canadian. Our Canada is a great nation of many wonderful cultures and traditions, melded to form the tempered national “alloy” that is distinctly Canadian today.

Historically, Rupert's Land was to be the glue, the mastic of our nationhood. With its great interconnecting land expanses and native peoples, Rupert's Land would bind our country, giving to Canada the
collective strength to stand alone as a great nation of the world. Canadians new and old do not want to return to the small, fractious, vulnerable states from which so many ancestors fled. With the exception of Aboriginal peoples, all Canadians have immigrant family beginnings that are well remembered in Canada, where a peaceful life is valued. Canadians value the strong links of friendship that bind this nation from sea to sea, just as our forefathers envisioned at Confederation. Our Canada is a nation of people wishing to remain united as one.

Our Canada is a strong, determined nation of pride, envied and respected throughout the world. Our Canada is the number one nation on Earth. It has the necessary skills and resources to sit at the table of the world, to be a true global trader in the 21st century and beyond. The strength of Canada is its diversity, which the world sees every day in the diversity of Canada's two official languages and dozens more languages of commerce and resource.

We Canadians today must continue to welcome new immigrants to our fold, to strengthen our government and social soul, to ensure that our Canada continues in its worldwide, number one role. :bottle:

BigBadBrian
10-20-2004, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by Angel
Let's see, we all live in igloos and do nothing all day except for collect welfare cheques, visit doctors for free, play hockey and drink beer. ;)

...and rely on America for defense. ;)

Kristy
10-20-2004, 03:20 PM
Did you know (or even care) that only 3% of Canada's GNP is spent on defense?

Warham
10-20-2004, 03:24 PM
If Canada's number one in the world, how come the country doesn't have a seat at the corrupt U.N.'s Security Council with the U.S., England, Russia, China and France?

Angel
10-20-2004, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
...and rely on America for defense. ;)

Yeah, what he said... ;) :p

Angel
10-20-2004, 06:27 PM
Originally posted by Kristy
Did you know (or even care) that only 3% of Canada's GNP is spent on defense?

Yes I do know, and care very much. What our govt has done to what was once one hell of a great military, and peace keeping team, is ATROCIOUS!

diamond den™
10-20-2004, 07:33 PM
I prefer Van Hagar

BigBadBrian
10-20-2004, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by Angel
Yes I do know, and care very much. What our govt has done to what was once one hell of a great military, and peace keeping team, is ATROCIOUS!

Truly a damn shame. Seriously. :(

diamond den™
10-20-2004, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Truly a damn shame. Seriously. :(

Right Now, I'm the biggest jackass on the forums.

Angel
10-21-2004, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Truly a damn shame. Seriously. :(

Holy Shit! Did hell just freeze over? Angel and BBB agreeing on something? ;)

Angel
10-21-2004, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by diamond den™
Right Now, I'm the biggest jackass on the forums.

Right Now, you're the biggest jackass on the earth.

Full Bug
10-21-2004, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by Angel
Let's see, we all live in igloos and do nothing all day except for collect welfare cheques, visit doctors for free, play hockey and drink beer. ;)
You nailed my lifestyle to a T.....;) :D Excuse me, I must now go to the beer store after I put on my touque.....:p

Angel
10-21-2004, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by Full Bug
You nailed my lifestyle to a T.....;) :D Excuse me, I must now go to the beer store after I put on my touque.....:p

LMMFAOBT! Bug, I don't know if our American friends will know what a touque is! ;)

ODShowtime
10-21-2004, 04:17 PM
ahhh don't care

BITEYOASS
10-21-2004, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by Angel
LMMFAOBT! Bug, I don't know if our American friends will know what a touque is! ;)

5 GOLDEN TOUQUES!

4 LBS. OF BACK BACON

3 FRENCH TOASTS

2 TURTLENECKS

AND A BEER........IN A TREE! :D

Angel
10-22-2004, 02:54 PM
BUWAHAHAHAHA!!! :D (But, do you know what a touque is?) ;)

BITEYOASS
10-22-2004, 03:52 PM
A hat worn in winter, eh! I lived 73 miles west of Windsor, ON, so I now quite a bit about Canada, plus there is about as many minor league hockey teams in Michigan as the number of NHL teams in Canada. As for the way the canadian government is run, I'm not gonna base an opinion since I'm not a citizen. But I'll trade you 4 NHL hockey teams (Phoenix, Florida, Tampa Bay and L.A.) for the Toronto Blue Jays! :D Who the hell decided to put a hockey team in a place with no ice? That's blasphemy! GO RED WINGS!

Angel
10-22-2004, 06:53 PM
BLUE JAYS? You would take the only team we have left up here? ;)

If you want to voice your opinion on our govt, go ahead. You may not be a citizen, but you know what a touque is... therefore you DO know something about Canada! We don't mind people voicing opinions, if they know what the fuck they are talking about! ;)

BITEYOASS
10-22-2004, 11:53 PM
Originally posted by Angel
BLUE JAYS? You would take the only team we have left up here? ;)

If you want to voice your opinion on our govt, go ahead. You may not be a citizen, but you know what a touque is... therefore you DO know something about Canada! We don't mind people voicing opinions, if they know what the fuck they are talking about! ;)

All right, the Canadian military basically needs new equipment (i.e. 40 year helicopters that need to be replaced) and enough troop strength that amounts to one infantry regiment per province and one artillery regiment per 3 infantry regiments. Which would amount to 4 regular divisions and 1 reserve. Because I find it odd that the entire troop strength and fiscal budget of the USMC(The US military branch with the least amount of money) outnumbers that of the CAF. Just to let you know of my distant canadian roots, the brother-in-law of my late great grandmother served in the Canadian army during WWI, she told me when I asked her about the unit pin that was framed on the wall of her apartment.
Only thing we have in common with the CAF is that we've got some 30-40 year old helicopters also, but I blame that on the USAF since they get too much damn money. Those missle silos we got are a waste of money and are for air force officers who fail flight school, cruise missles carried by heavy bombers and SSBNs work better.

Now for the health care budget problems in Canada, just turn in some of the terrorists living there and your government will receive reward money, that solves the problem.


Originally posted by Angel
BLUE JAYS? You would take the only team we have left up here? ;)

Aw c'mon! It's a 4 for 1 offer! Place em in Winnepeg, Quebec City, Hamilton and Halifax if you prefer. Speaking of hockey, if your ever in Michigan, don't ever say Go Avalanche! to a crowd of Red Wings fans. It's like saying Go Leafs! in Montreal.

Kristy
10-23-2004, 01:54 AM
Er...GO AVALANCHE!

Red Wings have and always will suck.

Angel
10-25-2004, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by BITEYOASS
All right, the Canadian military basically needs new equipment (i.e. 40 year helicopters that need to be replaced) and enough troop strength that amounts to one infantry regiment per province and one artillery regiment per 3 infantry regiments. Which would amount to 4 regular divisions and 1 reserve. Because I find it odd that the entire troop strength and fiscal budget of the USMC(The US military branch with the least amount of money) outnumbers that of the CAF. Just to let you know of my distant canadian roots, the brother-in-law of my late great grandmother served in the Canadian army during WWI, she told me when I asked her about the unit pin that was framed on the wall of her apartment.
Only thing we have in common with the CAF is that we've got some 30-40 year old helicopters also, but I blame that on the USAF since they get too much damn money. Those missle silos we got are a waste of money and are for air force officers who fail flight school, cruise missles carried by heavy bombers and SSBNs work better.

Now for the health care budget problems in Canada, just turn in some of the terrorists living there and your government will receive reward money, that solves the problem.



Aw c'mon! It's a 4 for 1 offer! Place em in Winnepeg, Quebec City, Hamilton and Halifax if you prefer. Speaking of hockey, if your ever in Michigan, don't ever say Go Avalanche! to a crowd of Red Wings fans. It's like saying Go Leafs! in Montreal.

I tip my hat to you, sir! :D However, the health care problems would also be taken care of by LEGALIZING marijuana, taxing it, and using the money for health care... ;)

WACF
10-25-2004, 03:29 PM
I agree, well done!

Our forces have been raped for decades....sad but true.
We live in a dream world where we think we need a "peacekeeping" army.
You can not keep or maintain peace unless you have the muscle to back it up.
You would not send a 120lb man to break up a fight between two men weighing 220lbs....the Canadian people can not grasp that.
The government plays on that misconception in order to syphon money from the military.
Sad.....

Health care needs a beuarocratic overhaul...way too top heavy in administration.
Liberal governments have a habit of filling offices with friends....

As for legalizing marijuana and taxing it....I can not believe it has not already happened....

WACF
10-25-2004, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by Kristy
Er...GO AVALANCHE!

Red Wings have and always will suck.

...sigh....it should still be Go NORDIQUES....

JimmytheWurm
10-25-2004, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by Angel
I tip my hat to you, sir! :D However, the health care problems would also be taken care of by LEGALIZING marijuana, taxing it, and using the money for health care... ;)

ALL DRUGS SHOULD BE LEGAL EVERYWHERE. Let the people who can't handle it OD on heroine, survival of the fittest. Population Control. Maybe some of these dumbasses who can't even take part in an intelligent discussion will disappear.

There is one issue I thought that this thread would lead to, and that is the discussion of the difference between the way Canadians and Americans police their respective citizens. Isn't it true that Canadian Mounted Police will show a drunk man home while I get arrested for walking home drunk from the bar instead of getting into a car with my drunk driving friend? Even after telling the cop that my friend was probably drunk driving past us as we spoke, he said "you did the right thing, but I still have to take you in and fine you."

This country is fucked up in the sense that our law enforcement is all about attacking us and making money as if they are really a business of their own instead of being there to help people. With all the horrible things I have seen and been put through by crappy law enforcement I wonder if the average cop cares less for the average American Citizen than your typical lawyer or politician?

What we need is a group of people who care enough to organize of Americans out to protect Americans, then you will truly have a task force making a positive impact on this country instead of one that is out to catch speeders and drug dealers to meet their quota.

Angel
10-25-2004, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by JimmytheWurm
ALL DRUGS SHOULD BE LEGAL EVERYWHERE. Let the people who can't handle it OD on heroine, survival of the fittest. Population Control. Maybe some of these dumbasses who can't even take part in an intelligent discussion will disappear.

There is one issue I thought that this thread would lead to, and that is the discussion of the difference between the way Canadians and Americans police their respective citizens. Isn't it true that Canadian Mounted Police will show a drunk man home while I get arrested for walking home drunk from the bar instead of getting into a car with my drunk driving friend? Even after telling the cop that my friend was probably drunk driving past us as we spoke, he said "you did the right thing, but I still have to take you in and fine you."

This country is fucked up in the sense that our law enforcement is all about attacking us and making money as if they are really a business of their own instead of being there to help people. With all the horrible things I have seen and been put through by crappy law enforcement I wonder if the average cop cares less for the average American Citizen than your typical lawyer or politician?

What we need is a group of people who care enough to organize of Americans out to protect Americans, then you will truly have a task force making a positive impact on this country instead of one that is out to catch speeders and drug dealers to meet their quota.

If you're not being rowdy, or a mouthy asshole to the cops, they'll pretty much leave you be, unless you're a native, and then they'll treat you like shit, and possibly drive you out of town and leave you by the side of the highway in below freezing temparatures, and you die. (Our racism, unfortunately :()

I have watched "to serve & protect" (Canuck "cops") and "Cops" back to back, and did find our cops to be much more polite, and not as brutal as many in the US.

As for all drugs being legalized, I agree with you 100%, and I have known many physicians, and coroner's who feel the same way! :D

JimmytheWurm
10-26-2004, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by Angel
If you're not being rowdy, or a mouthy asshole to the cops, they'll pretty much leave you be, unless you're a native, and then they'll treat you like shit, and possibly drive you out of town and leave you by the side of the highway in below freezing temparatures, and you die. (Our racism, unfortunately :()

I have watched "to serve & protect" (Canuck "cops") and "Cops" back to back, and did find our cops to be much more polite, and not as brutal as many in the US.

As for all drugs being legalized, I agree with you 100%, and I have known many physicians, and coroner's who feel the same way! :D

Mouthing off is a given no matter where you are, if you can't keep your mouth shut when you should than you are going to jail. But law enforcement shouldn't be a game. It should be about keeping people safe. Where I went to college, law enforcement really is a game. Cops will actually "pick on" college kids by themselves because when they are in groups they tend to know their rights, but it easy for them to trample the personal freedoms of a single person. Especially when you consider lawyer fees. One person isn't going to fight a $100 fine with a $1,000 lawyer and in that respect the cops have found a way to win as long as they don't offend a group of people who are going to chip in for a lawyer because they can split the fee.

As for the drugs...I'd like to quote NOFX....

"Drug...Free...America...for me. We want all our drugs and we want them for free."

"The liquor store sells finer scotch, but whose got a good powder?"

ODShowtime
10-26-2004, 04:11 PM
I have to weigh in on this...

I went to Toronto last summer to see one of the greatest concerts ever. I couldn't bring anything with me because I didn't want to be an international drug smuggler. So guess what? The Chief of Police in Toronto makes a statement that anyone caught with pot will be asked to throw it away and no one will be arrested. The one concert I wasn't holding in the last 7 years and pot's legal. :rolleyes:

We waste so much money and resources fighting drugs. We destory so many families and people's lives because of drugs. "We" as in American law enforcement.

If you get caught with drugs as a minor, you are no longer eligible for federal education loans. Even though it is a proven fact that lack of education begets poverty which begets drug use.

Let's just drop it or I'll get spittin' mad.:mad:

And Jimmy! You're nothing but a drug-addled drug addict!!!;)

JimmytheWurm
10-26-2004, 04:32 PM
"And Jimmy! You're nothing but a drug-addled drug addict!!!"

If they don't legalize methamphetamines soon I am gonna start jonesing. Aaaaaaaaaah...lol.

Bob Marley and Bradley Nowell said, I believe...
"I smoke two joints in the morning,
I smoke two joints at night,
I smoke two joints in the afternoon, it makes me feel alright.
I smoke two joints in times of peace and two in time of war.
I smoke two joints before I smoke two joints...and then I smoke two more."

ODShowtime
10-26-2004, 05:16 PM
jimmy that's not polite

Angel
10-26-2004, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by ODShowtime
I have to weigh in on this...

I went to Toronto last summer to see one of the greatest concerts ever. I couldn't bring anything with me because I didn't want to be an international drug smuggler. So guess what? The Chief of Police in Toronto makes a statement that anyone caught with pot will be asked to throw it away and no one will be arrested. The one concert I wasn't holding in the last 7 years and pot's legal. :rolleyes:

Actually, it's NOT legal, hasn't even been decriminalized yet, but they only go after grow-ops. You can pretty much smoke where you want, and no one will bother you!

ODShowtime
10-26-2004, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by Angel
Actually, it's NOT legal, hasn't even been decriminalized yet, but they only go after grow-ops.

It was that day. The Police Chief of Toronto explicitly said so. It's etched into my memory because it was one of the most ironic things ever. And I was stone sober.

I understand what you are saying though.