Letter Supports Anti-Kerry Bid Over Abortion

[ELVIS]

October 19, 2004

By PAM BELLUCK (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/19/politics/campaign/19catholic.html?ei=5006&en=b622b6e310a31251&ex=1098849600&adxnnl=1&partner=ALTAVISTA1&adxnnlx=1098191168-rikNpRJ/mVca520364Dutw&pagewanted=print&position=)

OSTON, Oct. 18 - A canon lawyer seeking to have Senator John Kerry excommunicated by the Roman Catholic Church because of his support for abortion rights said on Monday that he had ammunition in the form of a letter issued at the request of a senior Vatican official.

The lawyer, Marc Balestrieri of Los Angeles, who heads a conservative Catholic nonprofit organization called De Fide, also said that, based on the letter, he would now seek to have four other Catholic politicians excommunicated: Senators Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts, Tom Harkin of Iowa, Susan Collins of Maine, and Mario M. Cuomo, the former governor of New York.

"Senator Kerry, and all pro-choice Catholic politicians, who publicly call themselves Catholic yet who blatantly violate canon law by continuing to profess heresy and receive Holy Communion, must publicly reject their abortion advocacy for the sake of their own souls, and the others they have scandalized," Mr. Balestrieri said in a statement. "They have been excommunicated."

Only Ms. Collins is not a Democrat.

The letter to Mr. Balestrieri, written by another American canon lawyer at the request of a Vatican official, says that "if a Catholic publicly and obstinately supports the civil right to abortion, knowing that the church teaches officially against that legislation, he or she commits that heresy" and is "automatically excommunicated."

The letter, first reported on Friday by Eternal Word Television Network, a Catholic station in Alabama, was written last month after Mr. Balestrieri met with an official at the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

In June, Mr. Balestrieri filed a complaint accusing Mr. Kerry of heresy and seeking to have him excommunicated. The complaint was filed with the Archdiocese of Boston, where Mr. Kerry lives. The archdiocese, which declined to comment Monday, can decide whether Mr. Kerry should be excommunicated because he supports abortion rights.

Mr. Balestrieri said that when he was in Rome, he did not disclose to the Vatican that he had filed the petition against Mr. Kerry. He said he merely asked whether someone who publicly supports abortion rights was guilty of heresy.

Experts in canon law say Vatican officials frequently receive questions about matters of church doctrine. They can choose to answer those questions officially, giving their answers the weight of church law, or they can choose to answer them unofficially, delegating the matter to a canon lawyer not affiliated with the Vatican.

In Mr. Balestrieri's case, the undersecretary of the office, the Very Rev. Augustine di Noia, asked a friend, the Rev. Basil Cole, an associate professor at the Dominican House of Studies in Washington, to write an "unofficial" response to Mr. Balestrieri's question, Father Cole said in an interview.

A spokesman for Mr. Kerry, Michael Meehan, would say only: "Kerry's a Catholic who attends Mass regularly and receives communion. That explains his standing in the church."

A spokesman for Mr. Kennedy declined to comment. Mr. Harkin, Ms. Collins and Mr. Cuomo could not be reached.



:elvis:

[FORD]

As long as they also excommunicate every Republican Catholic who supports the BCE invasion of Iraq, that's fair.

The Pope condemned the invasion, and has even implied that Junior is the Antichrist, so let's be consistent with our positions, Vatican.

[ELVIS]

Show me where the Pope implied such a thing...

[knuckleboner]

why exactly is being a catholic POLITICIAN who is pro-choice an excommunicatable offense?

how about just regular catholics? should they also be subject to excommunication if they're pro-choice?

i wasn't aware that canon was supposed to have loopholes...

[FORD]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Show me where the Pope implied such a thing... Pope fears Bush is antichrist, journalist contends - Church - journalist Wayne Madsden - Brief Article
New Catholic Times, May 18, 2003
new

Save a personal copy of this article and quickly find it again with Furl.net. Get started now. (It's free.)

WASHINGTON DC -- According to freelance journalist Wayne Madsden, "George W Bush's blood lust, his repeated commitment to Christian beliefs and his constant references to 'evil doers,' in the eyes of many devout Catholic leaders, bear all the hallmarks of the one warned about in the Book of Revelations--the anti-Christ."

Madsen, a Washington-based writer and columnist, who often writes for Counterpunch, says that people close to the pope claim that amid these concerns, the pontiff wishes he was younger and in better health to confront the possibility that Bush may represent the person prophesized in Revelations. John Paul II has always believed the world was on the precipice of the final confrontation between Good and Evil as foretold in the New Testament.

Before he became pope, Karol Cardinal Wojtyla said, "We are now standing in the face of the greatest historical confrontation humanity has gone through. I do not think that wide circles of the American society or wide circles of the Christian community realize this fully. We are now facing the final confrontation between the church and the anti-Church, of the Gospel versus the anti-Gospel."

The pope worked tirelessly to convince leaders of nations on the UN Security Council to oppose Bush's war resolution on Iraq. Vatican sources claim they had not seen the pope more animated and determined since he fell ill to Parkinson's Disease. In the end, the pope did convince the leaders of Mexico, Chile, Cameroon and Guinea to oppose the U.S. resolution.

Madsen contends that "Bush is a dangerous right-wing ideologue who couples his political fanaticism with a neo-Christian blood cult."

COPYRIGHT 2003 Catholic New Times, Inc.
COPYRIGHT 2003 Gale Group

[Satan]

DOCTRINE-BALESTRIERI Oct-19-2004 (730 words) xxxi

Vatican denies it responded to lawyer seeking Kerry's excommunication

By Cindy Wooden
Catholic News Service

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- An official at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith said a California canon lawyer seeking a formal decree of heresy against Sen. John F. Kerry of Massachusetts, Democratic presidential nominee, has misrepresented his contact with the Vatican office.

"The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has had no contact with Mr. (Marc) Balestrieri," said Dominican Father Augustine DiNoia, undersecretary of the congregation.

"His claim that the private letter he received from (Dominican) Father Basil Cole is a Vatican response is completely without merit," Father DiNoia told Catholic News Service Oct. 19, declining to discuss the matter further.

Balestrieri is the head of De Fide, described on its Web site as an organization created "to deal with the burgeoning scandal of Catholic politicians supporting the 'right to choose' murder."

In an Oct. 15 interview on the Eternal Word Television Network and in an Oct. 18 statement posted on his Web site, Balestrieri said he had "received a written response prompted by the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith affirming that Catholic politicians who persist in supporting the right to abortion are 'automatically excommunicated.'"

He said Father Cole "was delegated" by Father DiNoia "to formally respond" to questions Balestrieri had sent the congregation.

Father DiNoia denied that Father Cole, a theologian who resides in Washington, was delegated in any way to address the questions on behalf of the congregation.

Father Cole's letter to Balestrieri, also posted on De Fide's Web site, begins by saying he had been asked by Father DiNoia "to respond unofficially" to Balestrieri's questions.

The priest concluded that "if a Catholic publicly and obstinately supports the civil right to abortion, knowing that the church teaches officially against that legislation, he or she commits that heresy envisioned by Canon 751 of the Code" of Canon Law.

Vatican officials contacted by CNS Oct. 19 said they did not agree with Father Cole's conclusion that Kerry has incurred excommunication.

"You can incur excommunication 'latae sententiae' (automatically) only if you procure or perform an abortion," one said.

In Washington, Father Cole told CNS the Holy See "gets these requests ... tons of them," and that Father DiNoia asked him to respond to Balestrieri in a private capacity.

"I have no relationship to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith ... and the letter that I wrote to Balestrieri was purely private," he told CNS Oct. 19. "I wrote it as a private theologian, not with any authority. It has no authority whatsoever.

"Its worth is disputable," he added.

One Vatican official contacted by CNS said no church official had seriously approached the point of declaring Kerry a heretic.

"No, Kerry is not a heretic," he said.

"There are three distinct questions involved" in the current U.S. discussion about support for legalized abortion and the worthiness of Catholic politicians and voters to receive Communion, he said.

The three questions, he said, are: "Is Kerry a heretic? Is Kerry an 'obstinate sinner' because of his support for legalized abortion? Can a Catholic vote for Kerry?"

Even if one answered "yes" to the second question, he said, it would not mean the senator is a heretic, nor would it oblige Catholic voters in all situations to vote against him.

The questions Balestrieri wrote in Latin and sent to the congregation asked whether the church's condemnation of abortion is a matter of Catholic faith and dogma for which opposition would constitute heresy.

When he wrote to the congregation, Balestrieri did not identify himself as the head of De Fide, he did not mention Kerry or politicians in general and he said he did not inform the congregation that he was trying to formally sue Kerry for heresy in the Archdiocese of Boston.

The doctrinal congregation, like other Vatican offices, receives dozens of letters and questions each day. Those from bishops are handled formally.

The tone of letters from lay people dictates how they are handled, a Vatican official said Oct. 19. Most letter writers are encouraged to discuss their concerns with their parish priest.

When a letter appears to be from a serious student, the writer may be referred to a book or published article, or he or she may be referred to a theologian or canon lawyer who could be able to provide direction.

- - -

Contributing to this story was Barb Fraze in Washington.

END

Copyright (c) 2004 Catholic News Service/USCCB. All rights reserved.
This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed.
CNS · 3211 Fourth St NE · Washington DC 20017 · 202.541.3250

[McCarrens]

Someone summon a holy man to banish out this pretender. Ford be Satan!

:mad:

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by FORD
As long as they also excommunicate every Republican Catholic who supports the BCE invasion of Iraq, that's fair.

The Pope condemned the invasion, and has even implied that Junior is the Antichrist, so let's be consistent with our positions, Vatican.

He speaks out in opposition of the Iraq war, but does nothing about the pedaphiles who serve under him? (pardon the pun)

Man, you have issues with the carriages you latch your horse to.

Look out dude, there be a canyon up ahead and your horse has gone mad and is heading straight for it.

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by knuckleboner

how about just regular catholics? should they also be subject to excommunication if they're pro-choice?


if they are pro-choice and help advocate it -- like making speeches at rallies, talking to groups, all that sort of thing. It's seen more as a sin if you make the decision to have one or if someone comes to you and you suggest that abortion may be a solution.

[McCarrens]

Do not disrespect the village because of your irresponsible behavior. Just as one should be honorable in their own actions, so should that one try to bestow honor upon those that would seek audience and guidance with them.

Those that act without honor should be thrown from the village.

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by Satan
DOCTRINE-BALESTRIERI Oct-19-2004 (730 words) xxxi

Vatican denies it responded to lawyer seeking Kerry's excommunication

By Cindy Wooden
Catholic News Service

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- An official at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith said a California canon lawyer seeking a formal decree of heresy against Sen. John F. Kerry of Massachusetts, Democratic presidential nominee, has misrepresented his contact with the Vatican office.

"The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has had no contact with Mr. (Marc) Balestrieri," said Dominican Father Augustine DiNoia, undersecretary of the congregation.

"His claim that the private letter he received from (Dominican) Father Basil Cole is a Vatican response is completely without merit," Father DiNoia told Catholic News Service Oct. 19, declining to discuss the matter further.

Balestrieri is the head of De Fide, described on its Web site as an organization created "to deal with the burgeoning scandal of Catholic politicians supporting the 'right to choose' murder."

In an Oct. 15 interview on the Eternal Word Television Network and in an Oct. 18 statement posted on his Web site, Balestrieri said he had "received a written response prompted by the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith affirming that Catholic politicians who persist in supporting the right to abortion are 'automatically excommunicated.'"

He said Father Cole "was delegated" by Father DiNoia "to formally respond" to questions Balestrieri had sent the congregation.

Father DiNoia denied that Father Cole, a theologian who resides in Washington, was delegated in any way to address the questions on behalf of the congregation.

Father Cole's letter to Balestrieri, also posted on De Fide's Web site, begins by saying he had been asked by Father DiNoia "to respond unofficially" to Balestrieri's questions.

The priest concluded that "if a Catholic publicly and obstinately supports the civil right to abortion, knowing that the church teaches officially against that legislation, he or she commits that heresy envisioned by Canon 751 of the Code" of Canon Law.

Vatican officials contacted by CNS Oct. 19 said they did not agree with Father Cole's conclusion that Kerry has incurred excommunication.

"You can incur excommunication 'latae sententiae' (automatically) only if you procure or perform an abortion," one said.

In Washington, Father Cole told CNS the Holy See "gets these requests ... tons of them," and that Father DiNoia asked him to respond to Balestrieri in a private capacity.

"I have no relationship to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith ... and the letter that I wrote to Balestrieri was purely private," he told CNS Oct. 19. "I wrote it as a private theologian, not with any authority. It has no authority whatsoever.

"Its worth is disputable," he added.

One Vatican official contacted by CNS said no church official had seriously approached the point of declaring Kerry a heretic.

"No, Kerry is not a heretic," he said.

"There are three distinct questions involved" in the current U.S. discussion about support for legalized abortion and the worthiness of Catholic politicians and voters to receive Communion, he said.

The three questions, he said, are: "Is Kerry a heretic? Is Kerry an 'obstinate sinner' because of his support for legalized abortion? Can a Catholic vote for Kerry?"

Even if one answered "yes" to the second question, he said, it would not mean the senator is a heretic, nor would it oblige Catholic voters in all situations to vote against him.

The questions Balestrieri wrote in Latin and sent to the congregation asked whether the church's condemnation of abortion is a matter of Catholic faith and dogma for which opposition would constitute heresy.

When he wrote to the congregation, Balestrieri did not identify himself as the head of De Fide, he did not mention Kerry or politicians in general and he said he did not inform the congregation that he was trying to formally sue Kerry for heresy in the Archdiocese of Boston.

The doctrinal congregation, like other Vatican offices, receives dozens of letters and questions each day. Those from bishops are handled formally.

The tone of letters from lay people dictates how they are handled, a Vatican official said Oct. 19. Most letter writers are encouraged to discuss their concerns with their parish priest.

When a letter appears to be from a serious student, the writer may be referred to a book or published article, or he or she may be referred to a theologian or canon lawyer who could be able to provide direction.

- - -

Contributing to this story was Barb Fraze in Washington.

END

Copyright (c) 2004 Catholic News Service/USCCB. All rights reserved.
This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed.
CNS · 3211 Fourth St NE · Washington DC 20017 · 202.541.3250


Experts in canon law say Vatican officials frequently receive questions about matters of church doctrine. They can choose to answer those questions officially, giving their answers the weight of church law, or they can choose to answer them unofficially, delegating the matter to a canon lawyer not affiliated with the Vatican.



It's an unofficial letter, which means everyone is going to try and distance themselves from it, especially the Vatican, and everyone will downplay it. Church politics.

[Warham]

If the pope thinks Bush is the Anti Christ, he hasn't read his bible very well.

I have a strong suspicion the Anti Christ will be somebody from Europe or the Middle East.

[Mezro]

Originally posted by Warham
I have a strong suspicion the Anti Christ will be somebody from Europe or the Middle East.

I have a strong suspicion the Anti Christ is somebody from The Vatican.

Mezro...look, the Pope is here to lead us all...

[Warham]

Mez, it's certainly a possibility.

Alot of folks believe that the next pope will be the last one.