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FORD
10-25-2004, 11:55 AM
For Immediate Release
October 25, 2004

BUSH’S FAILURE TO SECURE IRAQI EXPLOSIVES HAS MADE THE WORLD LESS SAFE

Today, the New York Times revealed that the Bush Administration failed to secure nearly 380 tons of high-grade explosives in Iraq shortly after the United States took control over the country, despite being informed of their exact location. The failure to secure the explosives has led to three major concerns:

1) The weapons could end up or have already ended up in the hands of a terrorist group;

2) The explosives might be used against our troops on the ground; and

3) The explosives could be used to carry out a deadly attack against America or our allies.


NEW REVELATION: Failure To Secure Iraqi Explosives May Mean that Powerful Explosives are in Hands of Terrorists

Bush Administration Remained Silent About the Disappearance of Explosives. “The White House said President Bush's national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, was informed within the past month that the explosives were missing. It is unclear whether President Bush was informed. American officials have never publicly announced the disappearance, but beginning last week they answered questions about it posed by The New York Times and the CBS News program ‘60 Minutes.’” (NYT, 10/25/04)

Explosives May Help Terrorists Create Chaos. “In May, an internal I.A.E.A. memorandum warned that terrorists might be helping ‘themselves to the greatest explosives bonanza in history.’” (NYT, 10/25/04)

Explosives Could Be Used For Nuclear Weapon. “The explosives could also be used to trigger a nuclear weapon, which was why international nuclear inspectors had kept a watch on the material.” (NYT, 10/25/04)


NEW REVELATION: Bush Administration Was Warned About Possible Looting of Explosives But Failed To Act

Bush Administration Ignored Warnings of Leaving Explosives Unsupervised. “A European diplomat reported that Jacques Baute, head of the I.A.E.A.'s Iraq nuclear inspection team, warned officials at the United States mission in Vienna about the danger of the nuclear sites and materials once under I.A.E.A. supervision, including Al Qaqaa. But apparently, little was done. A senior Bush administration official said that during the initial race to Baghdad, American forces ‘went through the bunkers, but saw no materials bearing the I.A.E.A. seal.’ It is unclear whether they ever returned.” (NYT, 10/25/04)

Kerry called on Bush to secure Iraq from looting
“Yesterday, Kerry took issue with the Bush administration's post-war policies in Iraq. ‘I think they wasted a month,’ Kerry said. ‘They lost a serious amount of time because they didn't have a plan. They have allowed looting to take place that has done more damage to the infrastructure than any bomb.’” (Providence Journal-Bulletin, 5/23/03)

Bush / Administration Played Down Looting at the Time:

Bush Was Unconcerned About Looting. When asked in April 2003 about concerns of looting, Bush said: “The statue comes down on Wednesday, and the headlines start to read, ‘Oh, there's disorder.’ Well, no kidding… But just like the military campaign was second-guessed, I'm sure the plan is being -- but we will be successful.” (Bush, 4/13/03)

Rumsfeld on Looting: “Stuff Happens”. “‘Freedom's untidy, and free people are free to make mistakes and commit crimes and do bad things,’ Rumsfeld said. … Looting, he added, was not uncommon for countries that experience significant social upheaval. ‘Stuff happens,’ Rumsfeld said.” (CNN, 4/12/03)

White House Said Looting Was Part of Liberation Process. In April 2003, asked about looting in Iraq, White House Spokesman Ari Fleischer said: “Clearly, anything that involves looting is not desirable. It is worth noting that what you are seeing is a reaction to oppression. … It's also a situation the world has seen before when oppressed people find freedom. For a short period of time, these actions have occurred in history. You saw it in Sierra Leone, you saw it in the Soviet Union with the collapse of the Soviet Union. And nobody likes to see it, but I think it has to be understood in the context of people who have been oppressed, who are reacting to the oppression…” (WH Press Briefing, 4/11/04)

White House Said Stories About Looting Were Overblown. Asked about the widespread looting in Iraq, Fleischer said: “This is almost starting to remind me of the stories that said our forces were bogged down, as people watched 24, 36 hours’ worth of people reacting to the oppression from which they suffered. …but there's no question, in the President's judgment, that what's happening is people are finding liberation, are finding freedom.” (WH Press Briefing, 4/11/04)


NEW REVELATION: Explosives May Be Used Against Our Troops

Immediate Concern Is Weapons Could Be Used Against Troops. “American weapons experts say their immediate concern is that the explosives could be used in major bombing attacks against American or Iraqi forces: the explosives, mainly HMX and RDX, could be used to produce bombs strong enough to shatter airplanes or tear apart buildings.” (NYT, 10/25/04)

Same Type of Explosives Have Been Used By Terrorists Before. “The bomb that brought down Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, in 1988 used less than a pound of the material of the type stolen from Al Qaqaa, and somewhat larger amounts were apparently used in the bombing of a housing complex in November 2003 in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, and the blasts in a Moscow apartment complex in September 1999 that killed nearly 300 people.” (NYT, 10/25/04)

Bush Said He Would Do Everything To Keep U.S. Soldiers Safe.

Bush: “Look, we just need strong support for our troops. And I have a solemn duty to say to you as squarely as I can, we will do the very best we possibly can to make your loved one safe. That's what we owe the family members, and that's what we owe the troops.” (Bush, 5/4/04)

Paid for by Kerry-Edwards 2004, Inc.

ODShowtime
10-25-2004, 12:21 PM
Does anyone (lucky) know if any of the big marque attacks in Iraq so far used such high explosives? I figured bad guys would either us high explosive or take ordinance out of old shells and bombs.

The Red Cross, Jordanian Embassy, and UN bombings were all pretty big, as well as the one that killed that imam outside the Ali shrine. Seems car bombs usually would be the delivery vechile for such high explosives.

I mean, I hope this shit is already being used. I couldn't imagine even bigger attacks taking place with even more deadly force. I thought they already had the amps turned to 11.

Big Train
10-25-2004, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by ODShowtime


I mean, I hope this shit is already being used. I couldn't imagine even bigger attacks taking place with even more deadly force. I thought they already had the amps turned to 11. [/B]

Real classy OD. I hope they put up bigger attacks and kill more soliders? WTF?

So, trying to follow the logic, if it makes Bush look bad then it's cool for the suffering on both sides to continue, hopefully in greater numbers?

Nickdfresh
10-25-2004, 12:47 PM
I am afraid that these explosives could increase the effectiveness of roadside bombs or "improvised explosive devices" which are often little more than a crude (but clever) timer attached to a bundle of old shells. These IED's can often be detected and dealt with by U.S. electronic countermeasures. This type of explosive could be much more versatile and easy to conceal.

Jesus Christ
10-25-2004, 12:48 PM
Hath not the Son of Bush made himself look bad by allowing the theft of these materials in the first place?

For it is a foolish man who leaveth his house unguarded with his enemy outside.

Big Train
10-25-2004, 12:48 PM
BY the way, this is Kerry-Edwards stuff...yawn.

Do mistakes happen in situations on this grand of a scale? Absolutely, wouldn't be a war without it. However, how this makes the "WORLD" less safe, is a mile and a half stretch to say the least.

McCarrens
10-25-2004, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
If it makes Bush look bad then it's cool for the suffering on both sides to continue, hopefully in greater numbers?

Unfortunately, many libs do think this way. I heard many of liberal friends wishing Saddam had never been caught or that we would lose the war in Iraq just so Bush wouldn't have a chance in hell of getting elected again.

:confused:

ODShowtime
10-25-2004, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
Real classy OD. I hope they put up bigger attacks and kill more soliders? WTF?

So, trying to follow the logic, if it makes Bush look bad then it's cool for the suffering on both sides to continue, hopefully in greater numbers?

Train, can you please do me a favor from now on and take more than 5 seconds to read my posts before you respond with such a moronic reply?

My point was that these explosives have allegedly been missing for awhile. I was wondering out loud if there was proof that they had been used already. Because it seems to me that these guys have all the explosives they need.

I have never once posted anything to make you believe I don't have the best interests of our troops and the US in general at heart.

ODShowtime
10-25-2004, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by McCarrens
Unfortunately, many libs do think this way. I heard many of liberal friends wishing Saddam had never been caught or that we would lose the war in Iraq just so Bush wouldn't have a chance in hell of getting elected again.

:confused:

Now you're just flat-out lying. We know you don't have any liberal friends.

Everyone wanted Saddam to be captured and for the Iraq war to go well. But it hasn't. That's why gw needs to start packing his bags.

Big Train
10-25-2004, 02:56 PM
OD,

It doesn't take more than 5 seconds to realize what you said sounds retarded, no matter how you meant it.

Whether or not they were missing is beside the point. You should hope that "this shit being used" isn't being used.

McCarrens
10-25-2004, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by ODShowtime
Now you're just flat-out lying. We know you don't have any liberal friends.

Everyone wanted Saddam to be captured and for the Iraq war to go well. But it hasn't. That's why gw needs to start packing his bags.

Do you actually think I would lie to people I'm never going to meet in real life?

And in one of those strange cosmic quirks, most of my friends are liberal. Some even call themselves socialists. It speaks volumnes about you that you are so wrapped up in what you believe that you cannot stand to have anyone around you that disagrees with you.

Sgt Schultz
10-25-2004, 03:07 PM
The IAEA thinks it's been missing since 1998.

The NY TImes article, which is where this report came from, said they disappeared after the U.S. invasion of Iraq last year.

knuckleboner
10-25-2004, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
OD,

It doesn't take more than 5 seconds to realize what you said sounds retarded, no matter how you meant it.

Whether or not they were missing is beside the point. You should hope that "this shit being used" isn't being used.

dude, i think he is. it seemed to me that he was saying that, since we've ALREADY HAD bombings in iraq (that wishing them away won't help), he'd rather that those bombings were using up the insurgants' stores of explosives, instead of them sitting on ANOTHER 380 tons of explosives. which, theoretically, could be used to begin nuclear fission.

ODShowtime
10-25-2004, 03:23 PM
Ahhhhh serenity now!:eek:

ODShowtime
10-25-2004, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by knuckleboner
dude, i think he is. it seemed to me that he was saying that, since we've ALREADY HAD bombings in iraq (that wishing them away won't help), he'd rather that those bombings were using up the insurgants' stores of explosives, instead of them sitting on ANOTHER 380 tons of explosives. which, theoretically, could be used to begin nuclear fission.


5 stars for you my friend.

Big Train
10-25-2004, 03:48 PM
OK, if I misunderstood, I apologize. However, if it was so clear, why did someone else have to compose a whole paragraph just to make it clear (and yes it is possible I'm just stuck on dumb today)...

FORD
10-25-2004, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
and yes it is possible I'm just stuck on dumb today...

It is Monday, right?

Hell, I was useless before the caffeine hit.

ODShowtime
10-25-2004, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
OK, if I misunderstood, I apologize. However, if it was so clear, why did someone else have to compose a whole paragraph just to make it clear (and yes it is possible I'm just stuck on dumb today)...

I'll meet you halfway and agree my post wasn't there clearest ever composed.

Sgt Schultz
10-25-2004, 04:42 PM
From the original NY Times article.............
++++++++++++++++

The Qaqaa stockpile went unmonitored from late 1998, when United Nations inspectors left Iraq, to late 2002, when they came back. Upon their return, the inspectors discovered that about 35 tons of HMX were missing. In the initial race to Baghdad, American forces went through the bunkers, but saw no materials bearing the I.A.E.A. seal.

I.A.E.A. experts say they assume that just before the invasion the Iraqis followed their standard practice of moving crucial explosives out of buildings, so they would not be tempting targets. If so, the experts say, the Iraqi must have broken seals from the arms agency on bunker doors and moved most of the HMX to nearby fields, where it would have been lightly camouflaged - and ripe for looting.

The Qaqaa complex where the explosives were stored was listed as a "medium priority" site on the Central Intelligence Agency's list of more than 500 sites that needed to be searched and secured during the invasion.

The Iraqi government "stored weapons in mosques, schools, hospitals and countless other locations," and that the allied forces "have discovered and destroyed perhaps thousands of tons of ordnance of all types."

ODShowtime
10-25-2004, 04:56 PM
So this shit was stolen before we even got there?

Sgt Schultz
10-25-2004, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by ODShowtime
So this shit was stolen before we even got there?

Yes that's what it looks like but this is being trotted out now to make it seem like it just happened or that it was Bush's fault.

ODShowtime
10-25-2004, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by Sgt Schultz
Yes that's what it looks like but this is being trotted out now to make it seem like it just happened or that it was Bush's fault.

That's what I was trying to get at above. I don't approve of that. gw&friends have pulled this bullshit countless times, but that doesn't make it ok.

FORD
10-25-2004, 05:13 PM
OK, so 35 tons were missing before, now over 400 tons are missing "after" the war.

Bit of a difference, I'd say.

Sgt Schultz
10-25-2004, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by FORD
OK, so 35 tons were missing before, now over 400 tons are missing "after" the war.

Bit of a difference, I'd say.

Did you read the whole post? Apparently not.

lucky wilbury
10-25-2004, 06:43 PM
1. its good to see the kool aid fords been drinking from du is now working. marching like a good little democrat drone posting stuff from the kerry campaign.

2. this stuff was most likly scattered long ago. buried everywhere. and explosives are explosives. some of the attacks that have happen in iraq have used tons of explosive all of different origins. if it went anywhere it went to iran. they've been stealing stuff from iraq

ELVIS
10-25-2004, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by FORD


Hell, I was useless before the caffeine hit.

You should consume caffeine more than once a month...;)

FORD
10-25-2004, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
You should consume caffeine more than once a month...;)

Is that sound medical advice, Nurse Presley? Most doctors would advise you to cut down.

ELVIS
10-25-2004, 07:16 PM
A small amount of caffeine is good and can aid in the performance of tasks that require sustained attention...

ODShowtime
10-25-2004, 07:18 PM
pot too

FORD
10-25-2004, 07:19 PM
For the record, I only drink it in the morning. And I rarely drink Coke anymore, so my caffeine consumption is way down from what it used to be.

Going through a case of Coke a week used to be considered "normal".

ELVIS
10-25-2004, 07:41 PM
I never drink coffee, but I love my diet vanilla Coke...:D

Lqskdiver
10-25-2004, 09:25 PM
OD, you fucking stoner!! Layoff the chronic!! Them mood swings are unbecoming!

Good post, Sgt. Yeah, this is old fucking news and of course, the times in conjuction with the Kerry campaign and AP are trying to pull a Bush DWI story that was the October surprise in 2000.