How Jews should vote?

[BigBadBrian]

How Jews should vote?
Dennis Prager


October 26, 2004


As a leader in the American Jewish community for some 30 years, I have never asked fellow Jews to vote for a presidential candidate. I have always believed that Jews have had Jewish reasons to vote for candidates from both parties.

Not this election.

There are overwhelmingly powerful Jewish reasons to vote for President Bush and equally powerful Jewish reasons not to vote for John Kerry.

To understand this, I need to explain the word "Jewish." It means two things: that which concerns Judaism and its values, and that which concerns Jews as a distinct ethnic people. Whichever definition one chooses, the case for the re-election of President Bush and the rejection of John Kerry -- and of the left, which along with radical Islam is the Jews' great enemy in our time -- is overwhelming.

Regarding the second definition, the one issue that overwhelms all others is the security of Israel.

For identifying Jews, there is an acute awareness that a generation after the extermination of one out of every three Jews in the world, the Jewish state, though as small as New Jersey, is indispensable to the security of the Jewish people. Just about every Jew recognizes that if Israel had existed in 1933 or even 1938, there would not have been a Holocaust.

In light of this preoccupation with Israel's security, identifying Jews, both liberal and conservative, have always been united on behalf of Israel's battle for survival. And it has been a battle since the day modern Israel was created in 1948. The Arab world (and since 1979, Iran, too) wants Israel destroyed. No country in the world is delegitimized except for Israel. The world's left and much of the Islamic world routinely deny Israel's, and only Israel's, right to exist as a Jewish state. The United Nations itself did this when its General Assembly passed its infamous "Zionism is racism" resolution, which meant that Israel has no more right to exist than did apartheid South Africa -- to which the left, the Palestinians, and other Muslims and Arabs routinely compare it.

Only the United States has protected Israel since 1967, when the Jewish state fought one of its many wars for survival against Egypt, Jordan and Syria. Therefore, which ideology and what type of man governs America is a matter of life and death for Israel. And most Jews know this.

Until now, it has not much mattered who was president. Democrat Jimmy Carter and Republican George Bush (the father) were not among Israel's greatest friends. But right now, Israel's greatest presidential friend, George W. Bush, is running for re-election against a man who, though he does not harbor Jimmy Carter's hostility to Israel, has views of the world that can only endanger Israel.

In a nutshell, John Kerry's primary foreign policy goal is to get America into the good graces of the European Union (specifically France and Germany) and the United Nations. He regards America going it alone in the world as an American calamity.

On the other hand, George W. Bush believes that becoming popular in the EU and in the United Nations would morally compromise America's values and ultimately endanger America.

Only an American president who does not place great importance on American popularity and who has a realistic view of the immorality inherent in international institutions such as the world court and the United Nations will stand behind Israel. Nearly all the world's governments are prepared to abandon Israel because of their dependence on Arab oil or their fears of their Muslim population and the threat of Islamic terror.

George W. Bush marches to the beat of the drummer who asks, "What is right?" and not to the beat of the many drummers who ask, "What is popular?"

Yes, there are issues beyond Israel's security that animate the vote of Jewish Americans. That is why Jews who are leftists first will, understandably, vote for the leftist candidate. The majority of Jews, liberal or conservative, understand why Israel needs America. And for them, the choice should be utterly obvious.

That is why former congressman and New York City Mayor Ed Koch, a liberal Democrat, has announced that for the first time in his life he will vote for a Republican president. That is why Al Gore's mentor, Martin Peretz, editor in chief of The New Republic, which in its 80-year history has never endorsed a Republican for president, just wrote an opinion piece warning those who care about Israel about John Kerry. And that is why every American Arab and Muslim group that is anti-Israel is supporting John Kerry.

I have just returned from a week of speaking to Jews in the battleground states of Florida, Pennsylvania and Ohio. I believe that more Jews than expected will vote for President Bush. I certainly hope so -- for the above reasons and because there is no trait as ugly as ingratitude.

[FORD]

John Kerry's grandfather was a Jew.

George Bush Jr's grandfather financed the murder of 6 million Jews.

Any questions?

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by FORD
John Kerry's grandfather was a Jew.

George Bush Jr's grandfather financed the murder of 6 million Jews.

Any questions?


None. Jews should vote for BUSH!!!!! :gulp:

[fanofdave]

just one question, your honor.....

george bush's grandfather isn't president.
so what's your point?

i guess this story makes about as much sense
as John Kerry attending a mostly black church
service with Jesse Jackson so now all the black
voters are required to vote for Kerry.

dennis prager is giving his opinion; just like
every editorial column from every newspaper
that is pro-Bush or pro-Kerry. you don't have
to be a hypnotized sheep and obey their opinion.

let's see, what did i once mention about opinions?

oh yeah.....

opinions are like assholes.
everyone has one.
most of them smell like shit.
most people don't want to see or hear them.
use them privately.

[FORD]

Join us next week when Brian tells African Americans to vote for David DuKKKe... :rolleyes:

[fanofdave]

I think you're a bit too obsessed with this
political tit for tat, mate. go fetch yourself
a beer and catch a good football game on
tv when you get a chance. life does go on
regardless of who is sitting in the oval office
chair. i've had my fun. its been good sparring
with you, Ford. Truth is, its good to see Kerry
giving Bush a photo finish run for the job.
Its good to see Americans waking up and
getting involved with what's going on around
them. You like Kerry; I like Bush. There's
really no harm in that. Best wishes to you
regardless of who ends up in that seat.
See you around the site. A***** Airlines

[ODShowtime]

Of course many Jews love Bush. He started a war that destroyed one of Israel's avowed enemies.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by FORD
Join us next week when Brian tells African Americans to vote for David DuKKKe... :rolleyes:

Nope. Blacks should vote for BUSH! see related thread (http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12301)

[Jesus Christ]

As the King of the Jews, I would like to say that I disagree with the premise of this article.

For it is the arrogance of those currently leading Israel which will lead them unto the events described by the prophet Ezekiel and only after that horror and destruction will they follow My Father's Plan and only then will they recognize their Messiah, Me.

[secrets]

Don't get your hopes up Jesus.

[Guitar Shark]

Originally posted by FORD
John Kerry's grandfather was a Jew.

George Bush Jr's grandfather financed the murder of 6 million Jews.

Any quetions?

Yes, I have a question. Where is your proof that Junior's grandfather "financed the murder of 6 million Jews"?

[Guitar Shark]

still waiting....... :)

[FORD]

Originally posted by Guitar Shark
Yes, I have a question. Where is your proof that Junior's grandfather "financed the murder of 6 million Jews"?

Bush - Nazi Link Confirmed
By by John Buchanan
from The New Hampshire Gazette Vol. 248, No. 1, October 10, 2003

By John Buchanan

Exclusive to The New Hampshire Gazette

WASHINGTON - After 60 years of inattention and even denial by the U.S. media, newly-uncovered government documents in The National Archives and Library of Congress reveal that Prescott Bush, the grandfather of President George W. Bush, served as a business partner of and U.S. banking operative for the financial architect of the Nazi war machine from 1926 until 1942, when Congress took aggressive action against Bush and his "enemy national" partners.

The documents also show that Bush and his colleagues, according to reports from the U.S. Department of the Treasury and FBI, tried to conceal their financial alliance with German industrialist Fritz Thyssen, a steel and coal baron who, beginning in the mid-1920s, personally funded Adolf Hitler's rise to power by the subversion of democratic principle and German law.

Furthermore, the declassified records demonstrate that Bush and his associates, who included E. Roland Harriman, younger brother of American icon W. Averell Harriman, and George Herbert Walker, President Bush's maternal great-grandfather, continued their dealings with the German industrial baron for nearly eight months after the U.S. entered the war.

No Story?

For six decades these historical facts have gone unreported by the mainstream U.S. media. The essential facts have appeared on the Internet and in relatively obscure books, but were dismissed by the media and Bush family as undocumented diatribes. This story has also escaped the attention of "official" Bush biographers, Presidential historians and publishers of U.S. history books covering World War II and its aftermath.

The White House did not respond to phone calls seeking comment.

The Summer of '42

The unraveling of the web of Bush-Harriman-Thyssen U.S. enterprises, all of which operated out of the same suite of offices at 39 Broadway under the supervision of Prescott Bush, began with a story that ran in the New York Herald-Tribune on July 30, 1942. By then, the U.S. had been at war with Germany for nearly eight months.

"Hitler's Angel Has $3 Million in U.S. Bank," declared the headline. The lead paragraph characterized Fritz Thyssen as "Adolf Hitler's original patron a decade ago." In fact, the steel and coal magnate had aggressively supported and funded Hitler since October 1923, according to Thyssen's autobiography, I Paid Hitler. In that book, Thyssen also acknowledges his direct personal relationships with Adolf Hitler, Joseph Goebbels and Rudolf Hess.

The Herald-Tribune also cited unnamed sources who suggested Thyssen's U.S. "nest egg" in fact belonged to "Nazi bigwigs" including Goebbels, Hermann Goering, Heinrich Himmler, or even Hitler himself.

Business is Business

The "bank," founded in 1924 by W. Averell Harriman on behalf of Thyssen and his Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart N.V. of Holland, was Union Banking Corporation (UBC) of New York City. According to government documents, it was in reality a clearing house for a number of Thyssen-controlled enterprises and assets, including as many as a dozen individual businesses. UBC also bought and shipped overseas gold, steel, coal, and U.S. Treasury and war bonds. The company's activities were administered for Thyssen by a Netherlands-born, naturalized U.S. citizen named Cornelis Lievense, who served as president of UBC. Roland Harriman was chairman and Prescott Bush a managing director.

The Herald-Tribune article did not identify Bush or Harriman as executives of UBC, or Brown Brothers Harriman, in which they were partners, as UBC's private banker. A confidential FBI memo from that period suggested, without naming the Bush and Harriman families, that politically prominent individuals were about to come under official U.S. government scrutiny as Hitler's plunder of Europe continued unabated.

After the "Hitler's Angel" article was published Bush and Harriman made no attempts to divest themselves of the controversial Thyssen financial alliance, nor did they challenge the newspaper report that UBC was, in fact, a de facto Nazi front organization in the U.S.

Instead, the government documents show, Bush and his partners increased their subterfuge to try to conceal the true nature and ownership of their various businesses, particularly after the U.S. entered the war. The documents also disclose that Cornelis Lievense, Thyssen's personal appointee to oversee U.S. matters for his Rotterdam-based Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart N.V., via UBC for nearly two decades, repeatedly denied to U.S. government investigators any knowledge of the ownership of the Netherlands bank or the role of Thyssen in it.

UBC's original group of business associates included George Herbert Walker, who had a relationship with the Harriman family that began in 1919. In 1922, Walker and W. Averell Harriman traveled to Berlin to set up the German branch of their banking and investment operations, which were largely based on critical war resources such as steel and coal.

The Walker-Harriman-created German industrial alliance also included partnership with another German titan who supported Hitler's rise, Friedrich Flick, who partnered with Thyssen in the German Steel Trust that forged the Nazi war machine. For his role in using slave labor and his own steel, coal and arms resources to build Hitler's war effort, Flick was convicted at the Nuremberg trials and sentenced to seven years in prison.

The Family Business

In 1926, after Prescott Bush had married Walker's daughter, Dorothy, Walker brought Bush in as a vice president of the private banking and investment firm of W.A. Harriman & Co., also located in New York. Bush became a partner in the firm that later became Brown Brothers Harriman and the largest private investment bank in the world. Eventually, Bush became a director of and stockholder in UBC.

However, the government documents note that Bush, Harriman, Lievense and the other UBC stockholders were in fact "nominees," or phantom shareholders, for Thyssen and his Holland bank, meaning that they acted at the direct behest of their German client.

Seized

On October 20, 1942, under authority of the Trading with the Enemy Act, the U.S. Congress seized UBC and liquidated its assets after the war. The seizure is confirmed by Vesting Order No. 248 in the U.S. Office of the Alien Property Custodian and signed by U.S. Alien Property Custodian Leo T. Crowley.

In August, under the same authority, Congress had seized the first of the Bush-Harriman-managed Thyssen entities, Hamburg-American Line, under Vesting Order No. 126, also signed by Crowley. Eight days after the seizure of UBC, Congress invoked the Trading with the Enemy Act again to take control of two more Bush-Harriman-Thyssen businesses - Holland-American Trading Corp. (Vesting Order No. 261) and Seamless Steel Equipment Corp (Vesting Order No. 259). In November, Congress seized the Nazi interests in Silesian-American Corporation, which allegedly profited from slave labor at Auschwitz via a partnership with I.G. Farben, Hitler's third major industrial patron and partner in the infrastructure of the Third Reich.

The documents from the Archives also show that the Bushes and Harrimans shipped valuable U.S. assets, including gold, coal, steel and U.S. Treasury and war bonds, to their foreign clients overseas as Hitler geared up for his 1939 invasion of Poland, the event that sparked World War II.

That's One Way to Put It

Following the Congressional seizures of UBC and the other four Bush-Harriman-Thyssen enterprises, The New York Times reported on December 16, 1944, in a brief story on page 25, that UBC had "received authority to change its principal place of business to 120 Broadway." The Times story did not report that UBC had been seized by the U.S. government or that the new address was the U.S. Office of the Alien Property Custodian. The story also neglected to mention that the other UBC-related businesses had also been seized by Congress.

Still No Story?

Since then, the information has not appeared in any U.S. news coverage of any Bush political campaign, nor has it been included in any of the major Bush family biographies. It was, however, covered extensively in George H.W. Bush: The Unauthorized Biography, by Webster Tarpley and Anton Chaitkin. Chaitkin's father served as an attorney in the 1940s for some of the victims of the Bush-Harriman-Thyssen businesses.

The book gave a detailed, accurate accounting of the Bush family's long Nazi affiliation, but no mainstream U.S. media entity reported on or even investigated the allegations, despite careful documentation by the authors. Major booksellers declined to distribute the book, which was dismissed by Bush supporters as biased and untrue. Its authors struggled even to be reviewed in reputable newspapers. That the book was published by a Lyndon LaRouche's organization undoubtedly made it easier to dismiss, but does not change the facts.

The essence of the story been posted for years on various Internet sites, including BuzzFlash.com and TakeBackTheMedia.com, but no online media seem to have independently confirmed it.

Likewise, the mainstream media have apparently made no attempt since World War II to either verify or disprove the allegations of Nazi collaboration against the Bush family. Instead, they have attempted to dismiss or discredit such Internet sites or "unauthorized" books without any journalistic inquiry or research into their veracity.

Loyal Defenders

The National Review ran an essay on September 1 by their White House correspondent Byron York, entitled "Annals of Bush-Hating." It begins mockingly: "Are you aware of the murderous history of George W. Bush - indeed, of the entire Bush family? Are you aware of the president's Nazi sympathies? His crimes against humanity? And do you know, by the way, that George W. Bush is a certifiable moron?" York goes on to discredit the "Bush is a moron" IQ hoax, but fails to disprove the Nazi connection.

The more liberal Boston Globe ran a column September 29 by Reason magazine's Cathy Young in which she referred to "Bush-o-phobes on the Internet" who "repeat preposterous claims about the Bush family's alleged Nazi connections."

Poles Tackle the Topic

Newsweek Polska, the magazine's Polish edition, published a short piece on the "Bush Nazi past" in its March 5, 2003 edition. The item reported that "the Bush family reaped rewards from the forced-labor prisoners in the Auschwitz concentration camp," according to a copyrighted English-language translation from Scoop Media (www.scoop.co.nz). The story also reported the seizure of the various Bush-Harriman-Thyssen businesses.

Still Not Interested

Major U.S. media outlets, including ABC News, NBC News, The New York Times, Washington Post, Washington Times, Los Angeles Times and Miami Herald, have repeatedly declined to investigate the story when information regarding discovery of the documents was presented to them beginning Friday, August 29. Newsweek U.S. correspondent Michael Isikoff, famous for his reporting of big scoops during the Clinton-Lewinsky sexual affair of the 1990s, declined twice to accept an exclusive story based on the documents from the archives.

Aftermath

After the seizures of the various businesses they oversaw with Cornelis Lievense and his German partners, the U.S. government quietly settled with Bush, Harriman and others after the war. Bush and Harriman each received $1.5 million in cash as compensation for their seized business assets.

In 1952, Prescott Bush was elected to the U.S. Senate, with no press accounts about his well-concealed Nazi past. There is no record of any U.S. press coverage of the Bush-Nazi connection during any political campaigns conducted by George Herbert Walker Bush, Jeb Bush, or George W. Bush, with the exception of a brief mention in an unrelated story in the Sarasota Herald Tribune in November 2000 and a brief but inaccurate account in The Boston Globe in 2001.
John Buchanan is a journalist and investigative reporter with 33 years of experience in New York, Los Angeles, Washington and Miami. His work has appeared in more than 50 newspapers, magazines and books. He can be reached by e-mail at: jtwg@bellsouth.net

[FORD]

“Bush - Nazi Dealings Continued Until 1951” - Federal Documents
By John Buchanan and Stacey Michael
from The New Hampshire Gazette Vol. 248, No. 3, November 7, 2003

After the seizures in late 1942 of five U.S. enterprises he managed on behalf of Nazi industrialist Fritz Thyssen, Prescott Bush, the grandfather of President George W. Bush, failed to divest himself of more than a dozen "enemy national" relationships that continued until as late as 1951, newly-discovered U.S. government documents reveal.

Furthermore, the records show that Bush and his colleagues routinely attempted to conceal their activities from government investigators.

Bush's partners in the secret web of Thyssen-controlled ventures included former New York Governor W. Averell Harriman and his younger brother, E. Roland Harriman. Their quarter-century of Nazi financial transactions, from 1924-1951, were conducted by the New York private banking firm, Brown Brothers Harriman.

The White House did not return phone calls seeking comment.

Although the additional seizures under the Trading with the Enemy Act did not take place until after the war, documents from The National Archives and Library of Congress confirm that Bush and his partners continued their Nazi dealings unabated. These activities included a financial relationship with the German city of Hanover and several industrial concerns. They went undetected by investigators until after World War Two.

At the same time Bush and the Harrimans were profiting from their Nazi partnerships, W. Averell Harriman was serving as President Franklin Delano Roosevelt's personal emissary to the United Kingdom during the toughest years of the war. On October 28, 1942, the same day two key Bush-Harriman-run businesses were being seized by the U.S. government, Harriman was meeting in London with Field Marshall Smuts to discuss the war effort.

Denial and Deceit

While Harriman was concealing his Nazi relationships from his government colleagues, Cornelius Livense, the top executive of the interlocking German concerns held under the corporate umbrella of Union Banking Corporation (UBC), repeatedly tried to mislead investigators, and was sometimes supported in his subterfuge by Brown Brothers Harriman.

All of the assets of UBC and its related businesses belonged to Thyssen-controlled enterprises, including his Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart in Rotterdam, the documents state.

Nevertheless, Livense, president of UBC, claimed to have no knowledge of such a relationship. "Strangely enough, (Livense) claims he does not know the actual ownership of the company," states a government report.

H.D Pennington, manager of Brown Brothers Harriman and a director of UBC "for many years," also lied to investigators about the secret and well-concealed relationship with Thyssen's Dutch bank, according to the documents.

Investigators later reported that the company was "wholly owned" by Thyssen's Dutch bank.

Despite such ongoing subterfuge, U.S. investigators were able to show that "a careful examination of UBC's general ledger, cash books and journals from 1919 until the present date clearly establish that the principal and practically only source of funds has been Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart."

In yet another attempt to mislead investigators, Livense said that $240,000 in banknotes in a safe deposit box at Underwriters Trust Co. in New York had been given to him by another UBC-Thyssen associate, H.J. Kouwenhoven, managing director of Thyssen's Dutch bank and a director of the August Thyssen Bank in Berlin. August Thyssen was Fritz's father.

The government report shows that Livense first neglected to report the $240,000, then claimed that it had been given to him as a gift by Kouwenhoven. However, by the time Livense filed a financial disclosure with U.S. officials, he changed his story again and reported the sum as a debt rather than a cash holding.

In yet another attempt to deceive the governments of both the U.S. and Canada, Livense and his partners misreported the facts about the sale of a Canadian Nazi front enterprise, La Cooperative Catholique des Consommateurs de Combustible, which imported German coal into Canada via the web of Thyssen-controlled U.S. businesses.

"The Canadian authorities, however, were not taken in by this maneuver," a U.S. government report states. The coal company was later seized by Canadian authorities.

After the war, a total of 18 additional Brown Brothers Harriman and UBC-related client assets were seized under The Trading with the Enemy Act, including several that showed the continuation of a relationship with the Thyssen family after the initial 1942 seizures.

The records also show that Bush and the Harrimans conducted business after the war with related concerns doing business in or moving assets into Switzerland, Panama, Argentina and Brazil - all critical outposts for the flight of Nazi capital after Germany's surrender in 1945. Fritz Thyssen died in Argentina in 1951.

One of the final seizures, in October 1950, concerned the U.S. assets of a Nazi baroness named Theresia Maria Ida Beneditka Huberta Stanislava Martina von Schwarzenberg, who also used two shorter aliases. Brown Brothers Harriman, where Prescott Bush and the Harrimans were partners, attempted to convince government investigators that the baroness had been a victim of Nazi persecution and therefore should be allowed to maintain her assets.

"It appears, rather, that the subject was a member of the Nazi party," government investigators concluded.

At the same time the last Brown Brothers Harriman client assets were seized, Prescott Bush announced his Senate campaign that led to his election in 1952.

Investigation Investigated?

In 1943, six months after the seizure of UBC and its related companies, a government investigator noted in a Treasury Department memo dated April 8, 1943 that the FBI had inquired about the status of any investigation into Bush and the Harrimans.

"I gave 'a memorandum' which did not say anything about the American officers of subject," the investigator wrote. "(Another investigator) wanted to know whether any specific action had been taken by us with respect to them."

No further action beyond the initial seizures was ever taken, and the newly-confirmed records went unseen by the American people for six decades.

What Does It All Mean?

So why are the documents relevant today?

"The story of Prescott Bush and Brown Brothers Harriman is an introduction to the real history of our country," says L.A. art book publisher and historian Edward Boswell. "It exposes the money-making motives behind our foreign policies, dating back a full century. The ability of Prescott Bush and the Harrimans to bury their checkered pasts also reveals a collusion between Wall Street and the media that exists to this day."

Sheldon Drobny, a Chicago entrepreneur and philanthropist who will soon launch a liberal talk radio network, says the importance of the new documents is that they prove a long pattern of Bush family war profiteering that continues today via George H.W. Bush's intimate relationship with the Saudi royal family and the bin Ladens, conducted via the super-secret Carlyle Group, whose senior advisers include former U.S. Secretary of State James A. Baker III.

In the post-9/11 world, Drobny finds the Bush-Saudi connection deeply troubling. "Trading with the enemy is trading with the enemy," he says. "That's the relevance of the documents and what they show."

Lawrence Lader, an abortion rights activist and the author of more than 40 books, says "the relevance lies with the fact that the sitting President of the United States would lead the nation to war based on lies and against the wishes of the rest of the world." Lader and others draw comparisons between President Bush's invasion of Iraq and Hitler's occupation of Poland in 1939 - the event that sparked World War Two.

However, others see an even larger significance.

"The discovery of the Bush-Nazi documents raises new questions about the role of Prescott Bush and his influential business partners in the secret emigration of Nazi war criminals, which allowed them to escape justice in Germany," says Bob Fertik, co-founder of Democrats.com and an amateur 'Nazi hunter.' "It also raises questions about the importance of Nazi recruits to the CIA in its early years, in what was called Operation Paperclip, and Prescott Bush's role in that dark operation."

Fertik and others, including former Justice Department Nazi war crimes prosecutor John Loftus, a Constitutional attorney in Miami, and a former Veterans Administration official, believe Prescott Bush and the Harrimans should have been tried for treason.

What Next?

Now, say Fertik and Loftus, there should be a Congressional investigation into the Bush family's Nazi past and its concealment from the American people for 60 years.

"The American people have a right to know, in detail, about this hidden chapter of our history," says Loftus, author of The Secret War Against the Jews. "That's the only way we can understand it and deal with it."

For his part, Fertik is pessimistic that even a Congressional investigation can thwart the war profiteering of the present Bush White House. "It's impossible to stop it," he says, "when the worst war profiteers are George W. Bush and Dick Cheney, who operate in secrecy behind the vast powers of the White House."

---

John Buchanan is a journalist and magazine writer based in Miami Beach. He can be reached by e-mail at jtwg@bellsouth.net.

Stacey Michael is a New Orleans-based journalist and the author of Religious Conceit. His most recent book is Weapons of Mass Dysfunction: The Art of "Faith-Based" Politics, due in early 2004. He can be reached by email at staceymichael@religiousconceit.com.

[frenchie]

to be jew and to live in israel are too different things.many friends of mine are jewish an' live in usa and some wants bush and others wants kerry.

[Warham]

I guess Henry Ford helped finance the murder of 6 million Jews as well.

FORD, have you ever owned a Ford vehicle?

This would mean anybody who's owned a Ford is indirectly related to the Holocaust.

[frenchie]

don' t laugh with the holocaust,please!

[FORD]

Neither Henry Ford (no relation) nor his grandson are pretending to be the President of the United States. Nor are they making a show of how compassionate and "Christian" they are while doing the exact opposite of that in reality. Nor are the Fords re-enacting the Third Reich with a new cast of characters like the BCE is.

[frenchie]

please ford, is it possible you make dissapear the nazi pic ,please! thank you

[Warham]

FORD isn't sympathetic to your feelings, frenchie.

[Guitar Shark]

Nice "proof," FORD. Two articles from the New Hampshire Gazette, a weekly publication. And, for that matter, a publication that does not even try to disguise its political leanings. Check it out -- the lead article on the main page of the current issue is entitled:

"The Bush-Cheney-Rove Propaganda Machine Shows Signs of Wear: President Bush's previously perfect record of exceeding exceedingly low expectations was dashed on September 30."

http://www.nhgazette.com/cgi-bin/NHGstore.cgi

Nice job! Let me know when you get some real evidence to support this claim. :)

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by frenchie
please ford, is it possible you make dissapear the nazi pic ,please! thank you

FORD is hellbent on keeping the holocaust alive, regardless of what he says...

[FORD]

Originally posted by Guitar Shark
Nice "proof," FORD. Two articles from the New Hampshire Gazette, a weekly publication. And, for that matter, a publication that does not even try to disguise its political leanings. Check it out -- the lead article on the main page of the current issue is entitled:

"The Bush-Cheney-Rove Propaganda Machine Shows Signs of Wear: President Bush's previously perfect record of exceeding exceedingly low expectations was dashed on September 30."

http://www.nhgazette.com/cgi-bin/NHGstore.cgi

Nice job! Let me know when you get some real evidence to support this claim. :)

Being a lawyer, you would probably know better than I how to obtain a copy of the case file where Grandpappy Prescott and his partners in fascism were indicted under the Trading With the Enemy Act in 1942. If the actual document is online, I haven't found it yet.

[Guitar Shark]

I'm sure you'll search forever, Dave. Good luck. :killer:

[FORD]

Originally posted by ELVIS
FORD is hellbent on keeping the holocaust alive, regardless of what he says...

I'm keeping the Holocaust alive???

Uhhh, I don't think so, considering the only Jew I ever wanted dead was Ariel Sharon.

[ELVIS]

Then shut up about it and reply to the specific article...

[4moreyears]

Uhhh, I don't think so, considering the only Jew I ever wanted dead was Ariel Sharon.

He wants you dead too.

[FORD]

True to form as always, aren't you, Psychotic Prick?

[DLR_EngineRoom]

Y'know....I just don't get it. Isn't this supposed to be a Roth fansite? Didn't Dave clearly state in his book 'Crazy From The Heat' how he feels about ignorant racists, anti-semites and bigots, aside from the obvious fact that he himself is Jewish? I understand that this is a political forum...but is that grounds for racism toward anyone? Bigbadbrian, ODShowtime and Ford should read Dave's book, over and over and over again until maybe you'll realize that you can't possibly be DLR fans if you're anti-semitic, period. Whatever happened to a few people chatting over issues and thoughts without getting into childish bigotry? Pathetic.

[Brett]

Nice avatar FORD. WTF? :confused:

I guess some people just don't care how offensive it is to throw the swastika around. It was the symbol of the murder of 12,000,000 people, NOT just Jews. It's disgusting. Especially bizarre to see it used on a web site supporting David Lee Roth.

[Warham]

It's probably the most tasteless thing FORD has done on this forum, and that's saying alot.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by DLR_EngineRoom
Bigbadbrian, ODShowtime and Ford should read Dave's book, over and over and over again until maybe you'll realize that you can't possibly be DLR fans if you're anti-semitic, period. Whatever happened to a few people chatting over issues and thoughts without getting into childish bigotry? Pathetic.

If you're calling me anti-semitic based on my post in this thread, you have a pretty huge definition of anti-semitism.

That said, I would like to read DLR's book sometime. Can I borrow your copy?

[FORD]

OK, I'll remove the avatar, because my intention was NOT to offend Jews or anybody else.

I am not a racist nor an anti Semite. Brett certainly knows that, and I'm not sure WHAT Engine Room is talking about.

Since I obviously have everyone's attention though, I'd like the remind you that the Jewish people have a motto in reference to the Holocaust that NEVER AGAIN would they allow something like that to happen.

And it's a damn good motto. One we all should remember. Especially those who willfully remain blind to an agenda that's using Hitler's playbook and proceeding at about the same pace. Just because you don't see camps and ovens yet don't mean they (or something worse) aren't planned. Remember, even Hitler didn't reach that level of evil overnight.

Like the familiar story of the frog in the pan of water, it was a gradual thing, and the frog didn't know he was being burned until it was too late to do anything about it.

Think about that. Especially next Tuesday.......

[ODShowtime]

While I understood what it meant immediately (as I'm sure anyone familiar with you would) I think the swastika is just a no-no these days.

Do you have anything in a bush/chimp motif? I think we could all enjoy that.

[DLR_EngineRoom]

Not sure if it's the sound of denial or clarification I hear, but it sounds better...

[jhale667]

Let's outlaw the fucking confederate flag while we're at it too. Just as much a symbol of hatred as the swastika.

[FORD]

I think my new one says it all, actually ;)

[jhale667]

Originally posted by FORD
I think my new one says it all, actually ;)

Yeah, but it would've been better if the dog was takin' a big dump on it....:rolleyes:

[DLR_EngineRoom]

Originally posted by FORD
John Kerry's grandfather was a Jew.

George Bush Jr's grandfather financed the murder of 6 million Jews.

Any questions?


Originally posted by ODShowtime
None. Jews should vote for BUSH!!!!!


Originally posted by ODShowtime
If you're calling me anti-semitic based on my post in this thread, you have a pretty huge definition of anti-semitism.

That said, I would like to read DLR's book sometime. Can I borrow your copy?

If you're a fan like you say you are, you should've already have it.

You know where you can get one.

Advising Jews to vote for someone who allegedly financed murder of their own and I have a huge definition of anti-semitism? Who are you, flappo the nazi bastard? Pathetic.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by DLR_EngineRoom
Advising Jews to vote for someone who allegedly financed murder of their own and I have a huge definition of anti-semitism? Who are you, flappo the nazi bastard? Pathetic.

I'm not sure if you're incompetent or simply confused. I didn't write:

"Originally posted by ODShowtime
None. Jews should vote for BUSH!!!!! "

BBB did, because he is delusional. I don't know how you got my name up there.:confused:

[FORD]

Originally posted by DLR_EngineRoom


Advising Jews to vote for someone who allegedly financed murder of their own and I have a huge definition of anti-semitism? Who are you, flappo the nazi bastard? Pathetic.

Actually, it's the grandson of someone who financed murder of their own and
I'm advising Jews NOT to vote for that person. It's Brian and his neocon pal Dennis Prager who were saying Jews should vote for the idiots.

Hope that clears up the confusion.

[ELVIS]

Was Prescott Bush aware at the time where some of his money was going ??

[DLR_EngineRoom]

Thanx for clarifying. I still don't like the undertone of this entire thread.

[FORD]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Was Prescott Bush aware at the time where some of his money was going ??

Grandpa Prescott was the managing director of Union Bank which means he personally invested not only his own money, but also that of his father in law Bert Walker and his employers, the Harrimans..

Even if you could argue his ignorance before WWII, the second New Hampshire Gazzette article makes it clear that even after the war, up until 1951, Grandpa Bush continued his financial association with Nazis.

[JCOOK]

" C'MON DAVE GIVE US A BREAK!"

[wraytw]

You're so full of shit, FORD.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by FORD
Actually, it's the grandson of someone who financed murder of their own and
I'm advising Jews NOT to vote for that person. It's Brian and his neocon pal Dennis Prager who were saying Jews should vote for the idiots.

Hope that clears up the confusion.


FORD, once again, is spouting sheer lunacy for the other side. I need not make an argument. I rest my case. :gulp:

[JCOOK]

I think he's off his methodone again.

[FORD]

Originally posted by wraytw
You're so full of shit, FORD.

When you have done your research and can prove me wrong, you will be entitled to say so.

[wraytw]

You can't prove a negative, FORD.

[Pink Spider]

Politicians always try to get the Jewish vote, the Christian vote, the black vote and the gay vote. But, never the atheist vote. Maybe it's because we're not stupid enough to vote for someone pandering to us? Still, I would like to see someone try for once, for amusement purposes.

[FORD]

Originally posted by wraytw
You can't prove a negative, FORD.

Neither could Saddam Hussein, but that didn't stop the BCE from invading.

[wraytw]

And it doesn't stop you from spouting bullshit.

Maybe your priorities are more similar to the BCE's than you think. ;)

[FORD]

Prescott Bush's treason against the United States of America is well documented.

Therefore, I'm spouting facts, not "bullshit"

[Rikk]

Originally posted by FORD
Being a lawyer, you would probably know better than I how to obtain a copy of the case file where Grandpappy Prescott and his partners in fascism were indicted under the Trading With the Enemy Act in 1942. If the actual document is online, I haven't found it yet.

The CBC (Canada's government-funded news network) aired an entire two-hour documentary on the history of the Bushes and the current Presidency last Sunday. It discussed for a few minutes the history of Prescott and his early work as Hitler's American-based banker while his son fought in the war. This is no conspiracy theory. This is 100% true.

[JCOOK]

Originally posted by FORD
Prescott Bush's treason against the United States of America is well documented.

Therefore, I'm spouting facts, not "bullshit"

My grandfather died at aushwitz.....He fell off the guard tower when he was drunk...BA DU CHING!;)

[JCOOK]

I know you laughed Ford

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Rikk
The CBC (Canada's government-funded news network) aired an entire two-hour documentary on the history of the Bushes and the current Presidency last Sunday. It discussed for a few minutes the history of Prescott and his early work as Hitler's American-based banker while his son fought in the war. This is no conspiracy theory. This is 100% true.


$=POWER

[DLR_EngineRoom]

Originally posted by JCOOK
My grandfather died at aushwitz.....He fell off the guard tower when he was drunk...BA DU CHING!;)

pretty original, nazi bastard.

can't possibly be a Roth fan, can't possibly be a fan of anything except for death metal, kkk and an eventual suicide.

[Snow Ho]

Originally posted by Pink Spider
Politicians always try to get the Jewish vote, the Christian vote, the black vote and the gay vote. But, never the atheist vote. Maybe it's because we're not stupid enough to vote for someone pandering to us? Still, I would like to see someone try for once, for amusement purposes.

and as if everyone in these groups think alike anyway.

[Switch84]

Originally posted by Jesus Christ
As the King of the Jews, I would like to say that I disagree with the premise of this article.

For it is the arrogance of those currently leading Israel which will lead them unto the events described by the prophet Ezekiel and only after that horror and destruction will they follow My Father's Plan and only then will they recognize their Messiah, Me.


:D LMAO! 5 points for this post, Jesus!

I find it quite disturbing that special interest groups (or targets) would try to divide this country up by even more degrees. What's the next thread gonna be about: 'How should the Buddhists vote?' What about 'How should the Muslims vote?' Maybe even 'How should the Hair Club for Men vote?'

Enough already!

[Kristy]

So basically what Prager is saying with Bush you know he's going to send some Muslims to Allah whereas Kerry won't?

[Switch84]

Originally posted by jhale667
Let's outlaw the fucking confederate flag while we're at it too. Just as much a symbol of hatred as the swastika.


:rolleyes: You beat me to the punch on that one, jhale! Davy Baby wasn't just talking about anti-Semitism; he was talking about bigotry in general (if you meatheads could read between the lines.) The degradation, enslavement, and murder of a group of people just because of their skin color is a travesty equal to (or maybe even worse) the Holocaust! Yet, it's alright for folks here and elsewhere to make disparaging comments about black people and even laugh about it! How could anybody be proud of waving Nazi and confederate flags yet call themselves enlightened?

Fuck all racist, bigoted, ignorant motherfuckers!

[Switch84]

Originally posted by Pink Spider
Politicians always try to get the Jewish vote, the Christian vote, the black vote and the gay vote. But, never the atheist vote. Maybe it's because we're not stupid enough to vote for someone pandering to us? Still, I would like to see someone try for once, for amusement purposes.

:heyfu: :rolleyes: To borrow a line from Elvis, THIS IS A RETARDED STATEMENT. Sweeping generalizations about anything never benefitted anyone. I'm more than positive that all athiests don't share this asinine opinion.