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BigBadBrian
10-28-2004, 07:33 AM
Russia tied to Iraq's missing arms


By Bill Gertz
THE WASHINGTON TIMES


Russian special forces troops moved many of Saddam Hussein's weapons and related goods out of Iraq and into Syria in the weeks before the March 2003 U.S. military operation, The Washington Times has learned.

John A. Shaw, the deputy undersecretary of defense for international technology security, said in an interview that he believes the Russian troops, working with Iraqi intelligence, "almost certainly" removed the high-explosive material that went missing from the Al-Qaqaa facility, south of Baghdad.







"The Russians brought in, just before the war got started, a whole series of military units," Mr. Shaw said. "Their main job was to shred all evidence of any of the contractual arrangements they had with the Iraqis. The others were transportation units."

Mr. Shaw, who was in charge of cataloging the tons of conventional arms provided to Iraq by foreign suppliers, said he recently obtained reliable information on the arms-dispersal program from two European intelligence services that have detailed knowledge of the Russian-Iraqi weapons collaboration.

Most of Saddam's most powerful arms were systematically separated from other arms like mortars, bombs and rockets, and sent to Syria and Lebanon, and possibly to Iran, he said.

The Russian involvement in helping disperse Saddam's weapons, including some 380 tons of RDX and HMX, is still being investigated, Mr. Shaw said.

The RDX and HMX, which are used to manufacture high-explosive and nuclear weapons, are probably of Russian origin, he said.
Pentagon spokesman Larry DiRita could not be reached for comment.

The disappearance of the material was reported in a letter Oct. 10 from the Iraqi government to the International Atomic Energy Agency.
Disclosure of the missing explosives Monday in a New York Times story was used by the Democratic presidential campaign of Sen. John Kerry, who accused the Bush administration of failing to secure the material.

Al-Qaqaa, a known Iraqi weapons site, was monitored closely, Mr. Shaw said.
"That was such a pivotal location, Number 1, that the mere fact of [special explosives] disappearing was impossible," Mr. Shaw said. "And Number 2, if the stuff disappeared, it had to have gone before we got there."

The Pentagon disclosed yesterday that the Al-Qaqaa facility was defended by Fedayeen Saddam, Special Republican Guard and other Iraqi military units during the conflict. U.S. forces defeated the defenders around April 3 and found the gates to the facility open, the Pentagon said in a statement yesterday.

A military unit in charge of searching for weapons, the Army's 75th Exploitation Task Force, then inspected Al-Qaqaa on May 8, May 11 and May 27, 2003, and found no high explosives that had been monitored in the past by the IAEA.

The Pentagon said there was no evidence of large-scale movement of explosives from the facility after April 6.
"The movement of 377 tons of heavy ordnance would have required dozens of heavy trucks and equipment moving along the same roadways as U.S. combat divisions occupied continually for weeks prior to and subsequent to the 3rd Infantry Division's arrival at the facility," the statement said.

The statement also said that the material may have been removed from the site by Saddam's regime.
According to the Pentagon, U.N. arms inspectors sealed the explosives at Al-Qaqaa in January 2003 and revisited the site in March and noted that the seals were not broken.
It is not known whether the inspectors saw the explosives in March. The U.N. team left the country before the U.S.-led invasion began March 20, 2003.

A second defense official said documents on the Russian support to Iraq reveal that Saddam's government paid the Kremlin for the special forces to provide security for Iraq's Russian arms and to conduct counterintelligence activities designed to prevent U.S. and Western intelligence services from learning about the arms pipeline through Syria.

The Russian arms-removal program was initiated after Yevgeny Primakov, the former Russian intelligence chief, could not persuade Saddam to give in to U.S. and Western demands, this official said.
A small portion of Iraq's 650,000 tons to 1 million tons of conventional arms that were found after the war were looted after the U.S.-led invasion, Mr. Shaw said. Russia was Iraq's largest foreign supplier of weaponry, he said.


However, the most important and useful arms and explosives appear to have been separated and moved out as part of carefully designed program. "The organized effort was done in advance of the conflict," Mr. Shaw said.
The Russian forces were tasked with moving special arms out of the country.
Mr. Shaw said foreign intelligence officials believe the Russians worked with Saddam's Mukhabarat intelligence service to separate out special weapons, including high explosives and other arms and related technology, from standard conventional arms spread out in some 200 arms depots.

The Russian weapons were then sent out of the country to Syria, and possibly Lebanon in Russian trucks, Mr. Shaw said.
Mr. Shaw said he believes that the withdrawal of Russian-made weapons and explosives from Iraq was part of plan by Saddam to set up a "redoubt" in Syria that could be used as a base for launching pro-Saddam insurgency operations in Iraq.
The Russian units were dispatched beginning in January 2003 and by March had destroyed hundreds of pages of documents on Russian arms supplies to Iraq while dispersing arms to Syria, the second official said.

Besides their own weapons, the Russians were supplying Saddam with arms made in Ukraine, Belarus, Bulgaria and other Eastern European nations, he said.
"Whatever was not buried was put on lorries and sent to the Syrian border," the defense official said.
Documents reviewed by the official included itineraries of military units involved in the truck shipments to Syria. The materials outlined in the documents included missile components, MiG jet parts, tank parts and chemicals used to make chemical weapons, the official said.
The director of the Iraqi government front company known as the Al Bashair Trading Co. fled to Syria, where he is in charge of monitoring arms holdings and funding Iraqi insurgent activities, the official said.

Also, an Arabic-language report obtained by U.S. intelligence disclosed the extent of Russian armaments. The 26-page report was written by Abdul Tawab Mullah al Huwaysh, Saddam's minister of military industrialization, who was captured by U.S. forces May 2, 2003.
The Russian "spetsnaz" or special-operations forces were under the GRU military intelligence service and organized large commercial truck convoys for the weapons removal, the official said.

Regarding the explosives, the new Iraqi government reported that 194.7 metric tons of HMX, or high-melting-point explosive, and 141.2 metric tons of RDX, or rapid-detonation explosive, and 5.8 metric tons of PETN, or pentaerythritol tetranitrate, were missing.
The material is used in nuclear weapons and also in making military "plastic" high explosive.

Defense officials said the Russians can provide information on what happened to the Iraqi weapons and explosives that were transported out of the country. Officials believe the Russians also can explain what happened to Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs.

BigBadBrian
10-28-2004, 08:45 AM
It's quite clear the UN prefers Bush not be re-elected.

They want the Oil-for-Food investigation to die.

FORD
10-28-2004, 08:49 AM
So let me guess....

The Commies (Junior's soulmate Pooty Poot) stole it from Iraq.

Then the Chechens stole it from the Russians. And they all got into their magic Terra Bus and drove to Mexico, right?

Fucking Moonie fairy tales :rolleyes:

BigBadBrian
10-28-2004, 08:52 AM
Originally posted by FORD
So let me guess....

The Commies (Junior's soulmate Pooty Poot) stole it from Iraq.

Then the Chechens stole it from the Russians. And they all got into their magic Terra Bus and drove to Mexico, right?

Fucking Moonie fairy tales :rolleyes:


Typical FORD m.o.....assault the source, not the facts. :gulp:

Cathedral
10-28-2004, 08:53 AM
The fact that other Nations choose Kerry should make you wonder.
They prefer a United States that can be bowled over as opposed to a United States that stands strong.

This is the atmosphere that Clinton created over his two terms.

If i were to vote for a Democrat, John Kerry is not him. that is my final decision on this Prsidential Election.

FORD
10-28-2004, 08:54 AM
Moonies are proven liars. So are the BCE - and they are very desperate liars right now.

Jerry Falwell
10-28-2004, 09:38 AM
Ford, sorry man... but you have absolutely no grip on "reality".
:(

FORD
10-28-2004, 09:45 AM
Trust me, this whole weapons thing will be settled today, and the results ain't gonna agree with the Moonie fairy tale.

Jerry Falwell
10-28-2004, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by FORD
Trust me, this whole weapons thing will be settled today, and the results ain't gonna agree with the Moonie fairy tale.

LOL, I trust anything that you type on this forum about as much as I trust Kerry to be a leader.

PS- that would be... not at all!

;)

ODShowtime
10-28-2004, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
The Russian weapons were then sent out of the country to Syria, and possibly Lebanon in Russian trucks, Mr. Shaw said.
Documents reviewed by the official included itineraries of military units involved in the truck shipments to Syria. The materials outlined in the documents included missile components, MiG jet parts, tank parts and chemicals used to make chemical weapons, the official said.


1. How the hell could our intelsats miss that?????


2. Well, WTF do we do now? Invade Syria?

FORD
10-28-2004, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by ODShowtime
1. How the hell could our intelsats miss that?????


2. Well, WTF do we do now? Invade Syria?

No, we cringe in fear and stay home not voting, because big bad Pooty Poot stole Georgie's firecrackers :rolleyes:

redblkwht
10-28-2004, 10:42 AM
Its hard to believe that Russia slips thru the back door &
steals these weapons while were there? c'mon..
like we DIDN'T know? someones lying over there..

Cathedral
10-28-2004, 12:01 PM
Damn, there are only two ways this could have happened.

1) The explosives were moved prior to our troops arrival.

Or

2) They were removed after, and satellite pictures will tell the story.

Point is, Your Golden Boy Kerry placed his head in a noose by grabbing a News Headline to hammer Bush without facts.

That is the kind of knee-jerk reaction a Presidential Candidate should not engage in.
If that gives you comfort in the man then i am more worried about your mental health than who you vote for.

I hope it hangs him, and as the story unfolds it appears he yet again hitched his horse to the wrong wagon prematurely.

Whats even scarier is that no matter how fucked up his thought process is, or what misinformation he uses to attack Bush, you'll still vote for him.

FORD
10-28-2004, 12:14 PM
Right Now (pun not intentional) I'd vote for Sammy Hagar over Junior, because he might be awful, but he couldn't possibly be as bad or worse than the BCE.

I would draw the line if he wanted to make "Mas Tequila" the national anthem, however.

McCarrens
10-28-2004, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by FORD
Right Now (pun not intentional) I'd vote for Sammy Hagar over Junior, because he might be awful, but he couldn't possibly be as bad or worse than the BCE.

I would draw the line if he wanted to make "Mas Tequila" the national anthem, however.

Does it ever bother you that you are the ONLY PERSON IN THE WORLDwho talks about the BCE?

John Ashcroft
10-28-2004, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by ODShowtime
2. Well, WTF do we do now? Invade Syria?

You've got my vote!

FORD
10-28-2004, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by McCarrens
Does it ever bother you that you are the ONLY PERSON IN THE WORLDwho talks about the BCE?

Does it bother you that Republican after Republican after Republican has realized the danger that this country is in, due to the suicidally insane policies of these criminal fucking bastards, who will remain criminal fucking bastards regardless of what name you choose to call them.

McCarrens
10-28-2004, 12:54 PM
There he goes!

Ford's like a top -- wind him up with conservtaive logic and watch him go!

Watch him spin 'round and'round!

He twirls and twirls!

He expends all this energy and all he does is end up in the same place.

FORD
10-28-2004, 01:02 PM
The conservative logic is coming from all the conservatives who can see reality for what it is.

What's coming from the Moonie Times and people like yourself isn't logic at all. It's panic.

Pure hysterical panic. Combined with (just like your so called leader) the inability to admit you made a collossal mistake in backing this idiot in the first place.

Warham
10-28-2004, 02:34 PM
Viva la Bush!!

Nickdfresh
10-28-2004, 11:03 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Russia tied to Iraq's missing arms


By Bill Gertz
THE WASHINGTON TIMES


Russian special forces troops moved many of Saddam Hussein's weapons and related goods out of Iraq and into Syria in the weeks before the March 2003 U.S. military operation, The Washington Times has learned.


If Rev. Moon says it, it must be true!

Nickdfresh
10-28-2004, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by John Ashcroft
You've got my vote!

Sign up dude! The Army's a little short of people right now. And the Syrain Army won't fold like the Iraqis did, they also won't mind telling us they do have chemical weapons.

diamondD
10-28-2004, 11:26 PM
Can I get one known example of hysterical panic going on?

Something that's happening in the real world that the rest of us can see for ourselves too.

Lqskdiver
10-28-2004, 11:29 PM
I'm hysterical! Now this explains exactly what happened to those explosives and why russia did not want us to liberate iraq. We were crashing their stockpile!!

FORD
10-28-2004, 11:45 PM
Originally posted by Lqskdiver
I'm hysterical! Now this explains exactly what happened to those explosives and why russia did not want us to liberate iraq. We were crashing their stockpile!!

So you're accusing Junior's "soulmate" Pooty-poot?

Surely Junior could have seen such evil in his heart when he "looked deep into Vladdie's eyes"

Lqskdiver
10-28-2004, 11:58 PM
Oh, I'm sure he did. It's what we call here in Texas "keeping the fire stocked so the rattlers don't get too close too the campsite."

I'm sure the White House knew of Frances, Russias, and eventually, Germany's treacherous alliances with Iraq. Only they can't go out and start making loud accusations. It's bad "politics". No, you just send in the dogs into the thick brush and have them flush out the critters.

And this is exactly what is happening.

Nickdfresh
10-29-2004, 12:00 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Russia tied to Iraq's missing arms


By Bill Gertz
THE WASHINGTON TIMES


Russian special forces troops moved many of Saddam Hussein's weapons and related goods out of Iraq and into Syria in the weeks before the March 2003 U.S. military operation, The Washington Times has learned.



Amazing. Chechen rebels are running rough shot all over Russia. But The Spetnaz commandos have nothing better to do but move Iraqi explosives to Syria. Makes perfect fucking sense.

ODShowtime
10-29-2004, 09:15 AM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Amazing. Chechen rebels are running rough shot all over Russia. But The Spetnaz commandos have nothing better to do but move Iraqi explosives to Syria. Makes perfect fucking sense.

That's because there's money to be made in Iraq.

4moreyears
10-29-2004, 09:40 AM
What law has George Bush broke? I would love to heear this one. If he was a criminal why don't you do a citizen arrest?

JH

ODShowtime
10-29-2004, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by 4moreyears
What law has George Bush broke? I would love to heear this one. If he was a criminal why don't you do a citizen arrest?

JH

The Geneva Conventions first off. Here's the first article I could find, there are better ones, but you should get the idea. And don't give me that "bush wasn't named bullshit."

US's Iraq POW scandal

By Tom Clifford
International Editor

10/27/04 "Gulf News" -- Dubai: The scandal of Iraqi "ghost detainees", prisoners not officially recorded by the United States, has links to top levels at the White House, Gulf News has reliably learnt.

An official from the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) says that senior cabinet members, including National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, were aware of the scandal and refused the humanitarian organisation access to the prisoners.

Until now the White House has insisted that acts like prisoner abuse, keeping prisoners in isolation and denying they are being detained were committed by a "few bad apples".

President George W. Bush has said that maltreatment was the "wrongdoing of a few".

However, the official told Gulf News that the issue of "ghost detainees" was raised by ICRC at a meeting in January in Washington.

ICRC President Jakob Kellenburger met with Rice, US Secretary of State Colin Powell and Deputy Defence Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, to discuss widespread maltreatment of Iraqi prisoners. This was before the abuse of prisoners became public on April 28 this year.

Also raised at the Washington meeting was the issue of ghost detainees. "Officially there was only one admitted to by the US," Red Cross media spokes-person Antonella Notari said in Geneva yesterday.

Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld had acknowledged in November that he ordered a senior Iraqi detainee be held without it being recorded at Iraq’s Camp Cropper detention centre.

"But we knew there were others," Notari said. "We have a policy of asking for access to all prisoners wherever they are held, whether it is in the so-called war on terror or the Iraq war. We ask to see all prisoners and their area of detention. We asked to get access to these ghost detainees. Rice, Powell and Wolfowitz denied us access."

Copyright: Gulf News - http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/Region2.asp?ArticleID=137113

ELVIS
10-29-2004, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by FORD
Trust me


No thanks...

Angel
10-29-2004, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
No thanks...

Better FORD than Dubya!

Nickdfresh
10-29-2004, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by FORD
Does it bother you that Republican after Republican after Republican has realized the danger that this country is in, due to the suicidally insane policies of these criminal fucking bastards, who will remain criminal fucking bastards regardless of what name you choose to call them.

I prefer Bush Incompetence Empire (BIC). Nice ring to it don't you think?