U.S. Marines on the Verge of Assaulting Falluja

[Nickdfresh]

This could get ugly:


U.S. forces launch new assaults in Falluja
At least eight Marines killed in fighting west of Baghdad
Saturday, October 30, 2004 Posted: 9:33 PM EDT (0133 GMT)



Marines participate in a briefing before starting a mission outside Falluja on Saturday.



FALLUJA, Iraq (CNN) -- U.S. forces launched renewed attacks against Falluja on Saturday, striking targets from the air and clashing with militants on the southeastern edge of the city.

The battle began the same day that eight Marines were reported killed during intense fighting in nearby areas.

Jets and helicopters have pounded Falluja for weeks to lay the groundwork for a possible invasion.

The offensive is intended to crack down on insurgents in Falluja and the surrounding Anbar province, part of the so-called "Sunni Triangle" west of Baghdad, a focal point of anticoalition violence.

The 1st Marine Expeditionary Force reported at least eight Marines were killed and nine others wounded in a single incident in Anbar province, though not in Falluja itself. Officials said the casualty figures were preliminary.

The incursion against insurgents controlling Falluja followed an overnight aerial bombardment against targets in eastern and northern sections of the city that killed five Iraqis, according to hospital sources.

Falluja has been in insurgent hands since April, when Marines were ordered to withdraw from the city's perimeter. Responsibility for the city was given to a squad of former Iraqi soldiers from the city and the police force.

The city remains home to a terror network run by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian terrorist who has sworn allegiance to Osama bin Laden. Al-Zarqawi is believed to have masterminded the beheading of American Nicholas Berg, as well as attacks on United Nations and Red Cross targets in Iraq.

In Friday's offensive, U.S. forces dropped 500-pound bombs on two weapons caches in northern Falluja, officials said. Strikes were also launched on the eastern part of the city, in the Sinai and Askari districts, according to CNN personnel in the area, though a Marines spokesman had no information on those strikes.

Artillery and airstrikes were also employed in other parts of the city, officials with the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force reported. Insurgents launched mortars at a Marine unit near southeastern Falluja. The Marines responded with what a Marines spokesman at Camp Falluja described as the longest barrage of artillery fire on insurgent positions in weeks.

At about 4 p.m. (9 a.m. ET), Marines also dropped air ordnance on an insurgent position in southern Falluja to support a group of Marines engaged on the ground, the spokesman said.

No Marines were wounded in those incidents in Falluja, the spokesman said.

Other developments

A car bomb killed at least seven people and wounded 19 in an attack on the Baghdad offices of the Arabic-language television station Al-Arabiya on Saturday, The Associated Press reported. A militant group calling itself the "1920 Brigades" claimed responsibility for the attack, denouncing Al-Arabiya as "Americanized spies speaking in Arabic tongue," the AP said.


Witnesses said Iraqi forces fired randomly and threw hand grenades, hitting three minibuses and three vans, after a U.S. convoy came under attack near Haswa, a town about 25 miles (40 kilometers) south of the Iraqi capital, the AP reported. A hospital official said at least 14 people were killed and 10 others wounded, according to the AP.


Japanese Foreign Minister Nobutaka Machimura confirmed that the headless body found Saturday in Baghdad is that of Japanese hostage Shosei Koda. Koda was kidnapped Tuesday, and his captors threatened the next day to behead him unless Japan pulled its troops out of Iraq. (Full story)


A British soldier from the Black Watch battle group redeployed from the southern city of Basra to an area outside Baghdad died of injuries Friday in a noncombat vehicle accident, a British army spokesman said. About 850 soldiers from the Black Watch regiment have redeployed to an area 15 miles outside of Baghdad to free up U.S. troops there for operations against militants.

[jcook11]

I'l put my money on the Americans

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by jcook11
I'l put my money on the Americans

As do I! But street fighting is the least fun kinda' fighting, it tends to be the most bloody and favors the defender.

[Nickdfresh]

Attack outside Fallujah is deadliest in 6 months

By EDWARD HARRIS
Associated Press
10/31/2004

NEAR FALLUJAH, Iraq - A car bomb killed eight U.S. Marines on Saturday outside Fallujah, the deadliest attack against the U.S. military in nearly six months.
Marines pounded guerrilla positions on the outskirts of Fallujah, where American forces are gearing up for a major assault on the insurgent stronghold.

The Marines later reported a ninth combat death Saturday but did not elaborate.

As of Saturday, at least 1,120 members of the U.S. military have died since the beginning of the Iraq war in March 2003.

In Baghdad, another car bomb exploded outside an Arabic television network's offices, killing seven people and injuring 19 in the biggest attack against a news organization since the occupation began last year.

It was a day in which at least 30 people died in politically motivated violence across Iraq.

Meanwhile, a Japanese official confirmed today that a decapitated body wrapped in an American flag and found Saturday in an insurgent-controlled section of Baghdad was that of a Japanese man kidnapped last week by Islamic militants.

Foreign Minister Nobutaka Machimura said in Tokyo that the government confirmed that the body was that of Shosei Koda, 24, a tourist.

An al-Qaida-linked group led by Jordanian terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi had shown Koda on a video posted on a militant Web site Tuesday.

The group had vowed to behead Koda within 48 hours unless Japan withdrew its 500 troops from Iraq. Japan had rejected that demand.

Later Saturday, a Polish woman being held by militants pleaded for her life and asked Poland to remove its 2,400 troops from Iraq in a video aired by Al-Jazeera television.

"The one thing that will save my life is any response to the Iraqis' demands: by first getting the Polish troops out of Iraq and second, giving any help to release the female Iraqi prisoners from the various American prisons in Iraq," said Teresa Borcz Khalifa, 54, who has dual Polish-Iraqi citizenship.

She was sitting in front of a banner with the militant group's name, Abu Bakr al-Siddiq Fundamentalist Brigades.

South of Baghdad, witnesses said a U.S. convoy came under attack, prompting Iraqi forces to open fire randomly and throw hand grenades, hitting three minibuses and three vans. At least 14 people were killed, hospital officials said.

The Marines died when a car bomb went off next to a truck southwest of Baghdad, said Maj. Clark Watson of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force.

Nine other Marines were wounded in the attack in western Anbar province, which includes Fallujah and other insurgent strongholds.

It was the biggest number of American military deaths in a single day in Iraq since May 2, when nine U.S. troops were killed in separate mortar attacks and roadside bombings in Baghdad, Ramadi and Kirkuk.

American forces are preparing for a major assault on Fallujah in an effort to restore control to a swath of Sunni Muslim towns north and west of the capital ahead of crucial national elections to be held by Jan. 31.

Saturday, insurgents fired mortars at Marine positions outside Fallujah. U.S. troops responded with "the strongest artillery barrage in recent weeks," said Marine spokesman 1st Lt. Lyle Gilbert.

Later, a Marine Harrier jet bombed a guerrilla mortar position inside Fallujah, then strafed it with machine-gun fire, Gilbert said. He had no reports of insurgent casualties.

Clashes also were reported between U.S. troops and insurgents Saturday in Ramadi, west of Fallujah. Two policemen were killed and four Iraqis injured in the cross-fire, said Dr. Saleh al-Duleimi of the Ramadi General Hospital.

In Baghdad, the car bomb exploded outside the office of the Al-Arabiya television network, a satellite broadcaster based in Dubai, United Arab Emirates. Seven people were killed and 19 injured, police said.

Three bodies, including one of a woman, were mangled beyond recognition, said Al-Arabiya correspondent Najwa Qassem. It could not be determined whether any of those bodies were of Al-Arabiya employees.

However, Qassem confirmed that one guard and one administration worker were among the dead.

The blast collapsed the first floor of the building, where staffers were meeting, said Saad al-Husseini, a correspondent of MBC, a sister channel of Al-Arabiya based in the same building.

Employees "were trapped between fire and the shattering shards of glass," he said. That "led to the high number of casualties. We were all there."

Al-Arabiya's managing editor, Abdulrahman al-Rashed, said seven people remained missing.

A militant group calling itself the "1920 Brigades" claimed responsibility for the attack, issuing a statement on a Web site blasting Al-Arabiya as "Americanized spies speaking in Arabic tongue." The station is owned by Saudi investors.

"We have threatened them to no avail that they are the mouthpiece of the American occupation in Iraq," the statement said, warning of more attacks against this "treacherous network." It was impossible to verify the claim's authenticity.

Al-Rashed, an outspoken critic of Islamic militants and terror attacks, said the station will continue to operate in Iraq. "This is our job, and we won't succumb to pressure," he said from Dubai.

The Iraqi police shooting south of Baghdad came after an American convoy was attacked early Saturday with roadside bombs, witnesses said. After the Americans pulled out, Iraqi police and National Guards arrived and began firing wildly, witnesses said.

Three minibuses and three vans were hit on the street near Haswa, 25 miles south of Baghdad, witnesses said.

Abdul Razzaq al-Janabi, director of Iskandariyah General Hospital, said 14 people were killed and 10 others injured. More wounded were taken to other hospitals. Reporters saw bloody bodies riddled with bullet holes inside the buses.

[Nickdfresh]

It seems now that the election is over U.S, Marines and Soldiers are set to begin pushing into Falluja. The possible spectre of a bloody urban fight is unsettling:


Attackers kill 3 British soldiers in Iraq
U.S. destroys insurgent positions in Falluja
Thursday, November 4, 2004 Posted: 5:05 PM EST (2205 GMT)


BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Unknown attackers have killed three British soldiers serving with the Black Watch Regiment in Iraq, the British government announced Thursday.

The victims were among some 850 Black Watch soldiers redeployed from Basra to an area south of Baghdad.

A translator, believed to be Iraqi, also died in the attack. Eight other people were injured, the British Defense Ministry said.

Britain recently agreed to a U.S. request to redeploy some of its soldiers to replace American forces being used against insurgents elsewhere in the country.

Families of some of the soldiers in the Black Watch Regiment had expressed worries that the redeployment would put British troops in greater danger.

The move to the U.S.-controlled sector south of Baghdad carries the risk of additional casualties and is politically sensitive for British Prime Minister Tony Blair.

British Armed Forces Minister Adam Ingram announced the deaths at the House of Commons on Thursday. The deaths bring the number of British troops killed in the Iraq war to 73, according to the British Defense Ministry.

"What I can say is that U.S. forces helped to provide urgent medical support at the scene of the incident, something for which I know our forces are grateful," Ingram said.

On Friday, a redeployed Black Watch soldier died of injuries suffered in a noncombat vehicle accident, a British Army spokesman in Basra said. (Full story)

Falluja airstrikes
In Falluja, two U.S. airstrikes destroyed several barricaded insurgent fighting positions early Thursday, the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force said.

Airstrikes in Falluja have persisted amid talk of a likely all-out U.S. and Iraqi offensive against the Abu Musab al-Zarqawi terror network and other militants in the city.

The assault is expected soon so the region can be pacified in time for scheduled January elections for a transitional national assembly. Plans are being made at a desert camp near the city, where Marines are training heavily in urban warfare.

While the assault is expected to occur before the elections, U.S. commanders say there is no specific timeline. They speak in terms of when, not if.

Marines say intelligence indicates 80 percent of the city's population has fled and 50,000 civilians remain.

It is believed that the city holds 2,000 to 5,000 insurgents, who are believed to communicate via cell phones, carrier pigeons, and a flagging system.

Commanders told CNN correspondent Karl Penhaul that military planners realize that urban warfare can be bloody, and the Marines are preparing for casualties in a tough environment likely to include booby-trapped buildings, roadside bombs, suicide car bombs, and rooftop snipers.

However, Marines are hoping they can make inroads if they work efficiently and speedily -- using infantry, tanks, and attack helicopters fast enough to surprise insurgents, the commanders said. They also want to make sure they are equipped to evacuate casualties.

Iraqi guardsmen reported killed
Arabic-language television news channel Al-Jazeera reported Wednesday that kidnappers have beheaded three Iraqi national guardsmen.

Al-Jazeera aired video of the three men. The report could not be independently confirmed.

The abductors are from a group calling itself the Brigades of the Iraqi Honorables, a previously unknown group, who accused the men of spying for U.S. troops and helping to arrest insurgents.

Earlier Wednesday, the Iraqi Defense Ministry confirmed the abduction and beheading of an Iraqi army officer after a video was aired on a militant group's Web site.

A ministry official said that Maj. Hussein Shanoun was seized 10 days ago in Mosul in northern Iraq, and his decapitated body was found three days ago.

The Army of Ansar al-Sunnah -- which has claimed responsibility for kidnappings and attacks -- posted a video on its Web site of a senior Army officer's beheading, identifying the victim as Maj. Shanoun.

Also on Wednesday, insurgents gunned down a top Iraqi oil official in a drive-by shooting in Western Baghdad, police said, while a roadside bomb hit a U.S. combat patrol near the city's Salmarn Pak neighborhood. The blast killed a 1st Infantry Division Soldier and injured another.

The soldier's death brings the number of U.S. troop fatalities in the Iraq war to 1,124, including 863 killed in hostile action, according to U.S. military reports.

Other developments

The humanitarian group Doctors Without Borders announced Thursday it is stopping its activities in Iraq because of "escalating violence" which endangers staff and other aid workers. The group has been present in Iraq for nearly two years, since December 2002. During the Iraq war, the group said, the "warring parties have repeatedly shown their disrespect for independent humanitarian assistance."


A report in Thursday's Los Angeles Times quotes soldiers who said Iraqi looters raided the Al-Qaqaa weapons dump shortly after the April 2003 fall of Baghdad while outnumbered U.S. guards simply watched, according to The Associated Press. (Full story)


Interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi on a visit to Rome, Italy, called on countries that had been acting as "spectators" of the war in Iraq to become involved in rebuilding the country. He met with Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi and Pope John Paul II. Allawi will attend a European Union summit in Belgium on Friday. (Full story) Berlusconi reaffirmed Thursday that Italy would keep its troops in Iraq for as long as the Iraqi government wanted. (Full story)


A suspected insurgent attack in a town north of Baghdad Thursday killed three Iraqis and wounded seven others, according to the 1st Infantry Division. A vehicle-borne improvised explosive device detonated in front of the city council building in al-Dujayl, which about 35 miles north of Baghdad.


A report by the group Human Rights Watch said on Thursday that "crucial evidence" that might be used to prosecute Saddam Hussein and others "has likely been lost or seriously tainted" because U.S.-led forces "failed to safeguard documents" and the remains of bodies in mass graves.


Hungary's Prime Minister Ferenc Gyurcsany said Wednesday the country would pull out its non-combat force of 300 transport troops by March 31. The interim Iraqi government had asked them to stay approximately another year. (Full story)

CNN's Karl Penhaul, Ayman Mohyeldin, Auday Sadik, Cal Perry and Robin Oakley contributed to this report.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Copyright 2004 CNN. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. Associated Press contributed to this report.

[Nickdfresh]

U.S. steps up Falluja strikes
Iraqi leader issues warning as offensive looms
Friday, November 5, 2004 Posted: 11:05 AM EST (1605 GMT)


A U.S. Marine checks ammunition Friday near Falluja. An assault on the Iraqi city is expected soon.
Image:



BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Gearing up for a full-scale offensive, U.S. warplanes overnight attacked targets in the insurgent stronghold of Falluja, west of Baghdad.

Against this backdrop, interim Iraqi Prime Minister Ayad Allawi said Friday that the "window is closing" for a peaceful settlement in the "Sunni Triangle" city.

"We intend to liberate the people and bring the rule of law" to the city, Allawi said in Brussels, Belgium, as he visits the European Union and NATO to discuss aid for his fledgling government.

Allawi's remarks came amid plans for an expected attempt by American and Iraqi troops to oust insurgents from Falluja.

In separate strikes, U.S. Air Force and Marine aircraft destroyed suspected insurgent buildings, barriers used as fortifications, an offensive position that stored explosives, fighting positions and a weapons cache.

A Marine spokesman said a significant amount of munitions was recovered, then destroyed.

A hospital official in Falluja said that two women were critically injured in a U.S. operation.

In Al Anbar province, where Falluja and Ramadi are located, two U.S Marines were killed and four others wounded, a U.S. military spokesman said.

In the northern Iraqi city of Balad, a roadside bomb hit a U.S. military convoy Thursday night, killing one 1st Infantry Division soldier and wounding another, the U.S. military said.

The number of U.S. military fatalities in the war totals 1,127.

Karl Penhaul, a CNN correspondent embedded with Marines near Falluja, said C-130s could be heard attacking targets, probably with 105 mm cannons.

The major assault on Falluja is expected soon, so the region can be pacified before the January elections for a transitional national assembly.

The strikes are aimed at the Abu Musab al-Zarqawi terror network and other militants, who have a strong presence in the city 30 miles (48 kilometers) west of the Iraqi capital.

The assault is being planned at a camp outside the city, where Marines are rehearsing urban warfare. They are studying fighting techniques used in Vietnam in the 1960s, in the Israeli-occupied territories, Chechnya and Somalia.

Commanders said they expect to encounter booby-trapped buildings, roadside bombs, suicide car bombs and rooftop snipers.

Military officials said there are scores of mosques used as insurgent sniping positions, command and control posts, and combat clinics.

Marines will work to surprise the insurgents by moving in quickly with infantry, tanks and attack helicopters.

Marines estimate most residents of the city -- which once had a population of 250,000 -- have fled, and about 50,000 civilians are left.

It is believed that the city holds 2,000 to 5,000 insurgents, who communicate with cell phones, carrier pigeons and flags.

Booby traps found
In Ramadi, U.S. forces said they defused explosives rigged to detonate inside a youth center used by dozens of children. Tons of explosives were found hidden in a mosque.

In the Baquba region, north of Baghdad, insurgent attacks over the last 24 hours claimed the lives of three Iraqis.

Two of the civilians killed were children who died when a mortar landed on their house near a police station. Three women were wounded.

Other developments

The United Nations on Friday warned that an Iraqi decision to allow Iraqis outside the country to vote in national elections could make it more difficult to hold credible elections by a January deadline. A spokesman for Iraq's electoral commission said Friday that the body expects the elections to take place in the last week of January.


The humanitarian group Doctors Without Borders said it will stop working in Iraq because of escalating violence. The group has been there since December 2002. The group said the "warring parties have repeatedly shown their disrespect for independent humanitarian assistance."


A report in Thursday's Los Angeles Times quotes soldiers who said Iraqi looters raided the Al-Qaqaa weapons dump shortly after the April 2003 fall of Baghdad while outnumbered U.S. guards simply watched. (Full story)


While in Rome, Italy, Allawi, the Iraqi interim prime minister, called on countries that he said had been acting as "spectators" to help rebuild his country. He met with Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi and Pope John Paul II. (Full story) Berlusconi reaffirmed Thursday that Italy would keep its troops in Iraq for as long as the Iraqi government wanted. (Full story)

CNN's Jane Arraf, Kevin Flower, Ayman Mohyeldin, Robin Oakley, Karl Penhaul, Kianne Sadeq and Mohammed Tawfeeq contributed to this report.
http://http:// http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/05/iraq.main/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/05/iraq.main/index.html (http://)

[ELVIS]

"Least fun kind of fighting" ??

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by ELVIS
"Least fun kind of fighting" ??
Sarcasm...But the U.S. Army found out in Germany in WWII that soldiers tend to take high causualties in house to house fighting and that a high tech. army's fire power and armor advantages are negated by guerillas firing anti-tank rockets and using rubble for cover. Sort of like "the last 20 minutes of 'Saving Private Ryan'" as one US General put it.

The US Marines had to withdrawl from Falluja (or Fallujah) not because the were driven back, but because so many civilians were killed in the fighting.

[John Ashcroft]

There's a point here somewhere I suppose.

Why don't you get to it Nick?

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by John Ashcroft
There's a point here somewhere I suppose.

Why don't you get to it Nick?

Not necessarily. This is a developing story on the "Frontline" that should be followed closely by anyone of any political persuation.

I don't agree with either the reasoning for the war in Iraq, nor the way it was so cavalierly and thoughtlessly conducted. That being said, I find this shit fascinating and I hope the USMC, USA, and ING secures the town while killing Robespierre al-Zarqawi, hopefully he dies an agonizing death like his victims, the fucking pig coward. But I doubt it, he'll no doubt run and let his minions do the fighting to the death.

[ODShowtime]

Less than a week after his "mandate" and gw's ready for the bloodiest battle of the war.

Their gonna have that place boobytrapped worse than Jenin. Expect whole buildings collapsing on our Marines.

We should have done the job when we first saw the problem instead of waiting out the election. Many more our our troops will die now because of gw's decision... or indecision.

[John Ashcroft]

And here it comes.

How'd I know the point was going to be "President Bush is murdering our servicemen!"

(Not necessarily from you Nick).

Newsflash OD, we have a volunteer fighting force that overwhelmingly approves of the war in Iraq. They are not ignorant pawns being unneccesarily slaughtered by a dictator. In fact, if you ever called a Marine a pawn, you'd be picking your teeth up off the ground in a very short period of time.

In fact, that's a great idea. Why don't you drive up to the nearest Marine base, and let them all know how you're there to look out for all of the stupid, little people... Like them. I dare ya.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by John Ashcroft
And here it comes.

How'd I know the point was going to be "President Bush is murdering our servicemen!"

(Not necessarily from you Nick).

Newsflash OD, we have a volunteer fighting force that overwhelmingly approves of the war in Iraq. They are not ignorant pawns being unneccesarily slaughtered by a dictator. In fact, if you ever called a Marine a pawn, you'd be picking your teeth up off the ground in a very short period of time.

In fact, that's a great idea. Why don't you drive up to the nearest Marine base, and let them all know how you're there to look out for all of the stupid, little people... Like them. I dare ya.

The point, (which in your characteristic arrogance you completely missed) is that gw's decisions will lead to more bloodshed. That's a fact, ass-a-hole. And no shit a Marine would hand my ass to me. That's why we should use them effectively you stupid, stupid man.

This isn't something that's needs drumbeating and craziness about, but it is the news of the day and deserves rational discussion. Get ready for four years of it as myself and others point gwII's consistent folleys.

[Nickdfresh]

I think what the Marines are going to do now that they effectively emptied most of the city's population is a kind of ring-siege strategy where they sort of push in slowly and sqeeze the city in a 360 degree concentric circle, destroying everything in their path. The Marines and Army tankers will probably blow every building before they come to it. But it still could be a bloodbath.

[ODShowtime]

That's a good point. There might not be many buildings left standing by the time the men on the ground get there.

hopefully most of the civilians have left. I guess they actually deserve it if they're still there.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
That's a good point. There might be many buildings left standing by the time the men on the ground get there.

hopefully most of the civilians have left. I guess they actually deserve it if they're still there.

CNN just brought up a good point though. I guess the Marines fear that the insurgents will hide behind whoever is left and use them as "human shields." Also, the terrorists will fight from Mosques (against the fundimental tents of Islam). But the Iraqis can go ionto the Mosques.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
CNN just brought up a good point though. I guess the Marines fear that the insurgents will hide behind whoever is left and use them as "human shields." Also, the terrorists will fight from Mosques (against the fundimental tents of Islam). But the Iraqis can go ionto the Mosques.

It is one of the worst attributes of this war that the two factions are so asymetrical that the bad guys have no choice but to hide behind civilians and mosques. Which makes us look like we indescriminately kill innocents when in fact our war doctrine has sought to minimalize such outcomes, and we spend billions developing weapons to help achieve this. We need to bomb Al-Jazeera again.

I wish we could just ship a couple of pickup trucks full of rednecks out there with shotguns. That would be a little more even I think.

[Nickdfresh]

DaveIsKing sounds angry enough! LOL

[ODShowtime]

trust me, he's PISSED :)

[Nickdfresh]

Am I the only one who's noticed that CNN has been obssessed with this story all day? It sounds like something may happen tomorrow. Isn't Friday the Islamic holy day?

[ODShowtime]

It's going down dude. The election's over.

[John Ashcroft]

And rightfully so.

The U.S. military will take care of business. Trust me.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by John Ashcroft
And rightfully so.

The U.S. military will take care of business. Trust me.


Really? 10,000 US Marines (who could kick my ass remember) can level a city filled with 3000 insurgents?

God damn dude, I was wrong. You are smart!

[wraytw]

Is there a reason that all of your replies are per ad hominem, OD?

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by wraytw
Is there a reason that all of your replies are per ad hominem, OD?

There you go. You hit the books and came at me with a word (or phrase or whatever) that I've never seen. Good work.

[wraytw]

You don't know what ad hominem means?

[ODShowtime]

From the context you used I would presume it means making a statement in the form of a question.

I'm pretty good with vocab so you can pat yourself on the back today.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by wraytw
Is there a reason that all of your replies are per ad hominem, OD?

Maybe 'cause he is retorting based on an earlier exchange on this thread in which his sophist adversary (Ashcroft) was pursuing an ad hominem course of debate with him.

Speaking of Ashcroft, what will become of your avatar when Patriot Act boy retires and fades into obscurity. I think you'll need a new one. May I suggest Janet Reno.:D

[wraytw]

lol

Nevermind. I'll try not to be too sagacious for you. Oh, sorry. Probably too big of a word for you. :o

[wraytw]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Maybe 'cause he is retorting based on an earlier exchange on this thread in which his sophist adversary (Ashcroft) was pursuing an ad hominem course of debate with him.

That's not the vibe I got, but it's a possibility. I'm not him. :)

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Speaking of Ashcroft, what will become of your avatar when Patriot Act boy retires and fades into obscurity. I think you'll need a new one. May I suggest Janet Reno.:D

Man I was just bustin' his balls about that... but you take the cake. THAT is funny!:D

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
Man I was just bustin' his balls about that... but you take the cake. THAT is funny!:D

I could see it! The Janet Reno Dance Party on JA's avatar. He's gotta' do it. That would be hysterical!:D

[Nickdfresh]

7:53 AM PST, November 6, 2004 E-mail story Print



Insurgents Attack Police Station in Samarra
American warplanes pound Fallouja as residents say attacks are strongest in months.





From Associated Press


NEAR FALLOUJA, Iraq — Insurgents set off at least two car bombs and attacked a police station today in the central Iraqi town of Samarra, killing at least 21 people and wounding 22 in what could be an effort to take pressure off Fallouja, where U.S. forces are gearing up for an assault.

Elsewhere, 20 American soldiers were wounded in the Sunni Triangle city of Ramadi, the U.S. command said without elaborating. Residents of that insurgent stronghold, located 70 miles west of Baghdad, reported clashes and explosions throughout the day.







The attacks in Samarra, 60 miles northeast of Fallouja, occurred in a city that U.S. and Iraqi forces reclaimed from insurgents in September and had sought to use as a model for pacifying restive Sunni Muslim areas of the country.

Early today, however, armed militants stormed a police station, killing 12 policemen and injuring one. In other attacks, a suicide car bomber detonated explosives inside a stolen police car near the mayor's office, a second car bomb exploded near a U.S. base and a mortar fell on a crowded market.

The dead included an Iraqi National Guard commander, Abdel Razeq Shaker al-Garmali, hospital officials said. The town's mayor was reportedly injured in the car bombing.

Residents said U.S. forces, using loudspeakers to make the announcement, imposed an indefinite curfew on Samarra. American warplanes and helicopters were heard roaming overhead.

In western Baghdad, a suicide car bomber detonated an explosion that killed an Iraqi civilian and wounded three coalition troops and an Iraqi, the U.S. military said. The bomber was killed and another occupant in the car was wounded. Witnesses said the blast hit about 300 yards from a security checkpoint on the road to the international airport.

The new violence could be aimed at relieving U.S. pressure on Fallouja as American commanders shift their forces for an anticipated showdown there.

More than 10,000 American soldiers and Marines are massed for an expected offensive against Fallouja, and Iraq's interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi warned the "window is closing" to avert an attack.

As the Americans prepare for an offensive, U.S. planes dropped five 500-pound bombs at several targets in Fallouja early today, including a factory as well as suspected weapons caches. The drone of U.S. aircraft heading toward Fallouja could be heard over Baghdad. The U.S. military said the main highway into Fallouja has now been completely sealed off.

U.S. intelligence estimates there are about 3,000 insurgents dug in behind defenses and booby traps in Fallouja, a city of about 300,000 located 40 miles west of Baghdad.

Military planners believe there are about 1,200 hardcore insurgents in Fallouja -- at least half of them Iraqis. They are bolstered by insurgent cells with up to 2,000 fighters in the surrounding towns and countryside.

In Brussels, Belgium, Allawi warned that the "window really is closing for a peaceful settlement" in Fallouja. Allawi must give the final go-ahead for the offensive, part of a campaign to curb the insurgency ahead of national elections planned for January.

Sunni clerics have threatened to boycott the election if Fallouja is attacked, and U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan has warned U.S., British and Iraqi authorities that a military campaign and "increased insurgent violence" could put elections at risk.

Iraqi authorities closed a border crossing point with Syria, and U.S. troops set up checkpoints along major routes into the city. Marines fired on a civilian vehicle that did not stop, killing an Iraqi woman and wounding her husband, according to the U.S. military and witnesses. The car didn't notice the checkpoint, witnesses said.

The insurgents struck back, killing one U.S. soldier and wounding five in a rocket attack. Clashes were reported at other checkpoints around the city and in the east and north of the city late in the day. An AC-130 gunship fired at several targets as U.S. forces skirmished with insurgents, the U.S. army said.

Elsewhere, U.S. Cobra attack helicopters fired Friday on insurgents operating an illegal checkpoint south of Baghdad, killing or wounding an "unknown number" of people, the military said.

Allawi, a secular Shiite Muslim with strong ties to the CIA and State Department, has demanded that Fallouja hand over foreign extremists, including Jordanian terror mastermind Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and his followers, and allow government troops to enter the city.

Allawi faces strong opposition to a Fallouja offensive from the Sunni minority. The Sunni clerical Association of Muslim Scholars has threatened to boycott the January election and mount a nationwide civil disobedience campaign.

A public outcry over civilian casualties prompted the Bush administration to call off a siege in April, after which Fallouja fell under control of radical clerics.

In hopes of assuaging public outrage, Iraqi authorities have earmarked $75 million to repair the damage in Fallouja, Marine Maj. Jim West said. The strategy is similar to one used when U.S. troops restored government authority in the Shiite holy city Najaf in August after weeks of fighting with militiamen.


Copyright 2004 Los Angeles Times
By visiting this site, you are agreeing to our Privacy Policy
Terms of Service.

[Nickdfresh]

November 6, 2004 E-mail story Print

http://www.LAtimes.com/

*link requires registration

THE CONFLICT IN IRAQ
Under the Gun in Fallouja
Some of the remaining residents willingly help rebels. Others fear them and want them out.



By Alissa J. Rubin, Times Staff Writer


FALLOUJA, Iraq — This rebel city's broad boulevards are empty now, the mosques thinly attended even for Friday prayers. Save for those too poor, too old or too sick to leave, Fallouja has been left to the insurgents and the Marines who vow to crush them.

Driven from their homes by daily American bombing, most families are camping in the surrounding countryside or, if they have the means, renting houses in Baghdad, 35 miles to the east. No one knows how many civilians are left in Fallouja. In fact, no one knows exactly what it means to be a civilian in a city where almost anyone would open his door to an insurgent, either out of sympathy or fear of reprisal.







Interviews over the last four months with residents of the Sunni Muslim stronghold offer a portrait of a community that has become a symbol of violence and rebellion but, like many symbols, is far more complicated.

Although a significant segment of the population participates in the insurgency — militant Sunni Islamists, foreign fighters and Saddam Hussein loyalists — many Falloujans have chafed under the militants' rule, and some are fed up — enough to leave for good. In between are the largest group: those who sympathize with the fighters but also fear them.

"Roughly a quarter to a third of the people in Fallouja support what the [Iraqi] government is trying to do, but they're afraid to say anything," said a senior Western diplomat who declined to be identified. "Then there's about 30-40% who don't know what they think and are just waiting, and the remaining 20-30% will go down fighting.

"The fight," he added, "is for the people in the middle."

Some Fallouja natives say they hope only that the Marines' threatened assault to end the rebels' reign will come — and end — quickly so reconstruction can begin. Others want the insurgents to fight hard, to prove that they can stand up to the U.S. military and the interim government that has backed American firepower.

Falloujans who support the insurgents were much more willing to talk about their views than the fence-sitters and those who dislike the insurgents' presence, most of whom are afraid to speak out.

"The foreign fighters are fighting for the same thing we are fighting for — the end of the occupation," said Amar Mohammed, a doctor of internal medicine at Fallouja Hospital who is now without work because the hospital closed all but its emergency room and surgery facilities. "Why should we give them up to the Americans?"

Mohammed and his brother Jassim fled Fallouja when the American bombing went on for 12 hours on the first day of the holy month of Ramadan. They paused only long enough to grab a change of clothes.

Now their 30 family members drift through an unfurnished house on Baghdad's western edge. The bombing kept the schools closed, so the children have missed their classes. Instead, they race up and down the Baghdad house's empty rooms and listen to the grown-ups denounce the Americans.

The Mohammeds view themselves as supporters of the insurgency but not active fighters. By talking to a reporter, they believed they were contributing to the "resistance" by explaining Falloujans' views.

During the summer, another Fallouja resident, gastroenterologist Abu Hamid, expressed similar sympathy for the militants and anger at the Americans, even though the Marines had given him a contract to renovate a clinic in the area.

Speaking at the Fallouja liaison center, a Marine outpost on the city's edge where he was waiting to be approved for his next payment, he condemned the Americans in almost every other sentence. "What would you feel if somebody killed your brother or your son?" he asked.

"This story of Zarqawi being here is only a pretext," he said, referring to Abu Musab Zarqawi, the Jordanian militant reportedly holed up in Fallouja who is blamed for some of the beheadings and the most lethal insurgent bombings.

"Why are they using this excuse? What's the goal in bombing civilian people?" he asked. "They are just after undermining the morale of the people."

But other Falloujan businessmen at the Marine liaison center appeared to be torn by conflicting emotions, a desire to make a living and help their community and fear of the insurgents.

Abu Saif, a thin man with a melancholy air who was rebuilding a school near the city, looked around nervously as he spoke in August. He said he feared the masked men who stalked the streets. They hate the Americans so violently, he said, that they believe that anyone who talks to them is an informer who deserves to be killed.

"Frankly, we cannot allow you to take pictures of us or give you our full names because we are afraid of the mujahedin," he said.

But he eagerly opened a folder filled with photographs of his school project, which he had brought to show to the Marines. Holding up picture after picture, he described the school's disrepair, explained that he had decided to rebuild almost from the ground up, then showed photos of stacks of bricks and the beginnings of each classroom.

If only the insurgents understood that he was trying to help Iraqis, maybe they would approve, he said, anxiety in his voice. "The problem is that, when I come in here [the Marine outpost], I don't hold a sign that says, 'I am building a school.' I come in here like everybody else, including those who really are agents."

Some Falloujans have been willing to express their disapproval of the insurgents. Middle-aged women who grew up under Hussein's secular rule — when they could receive an education, walk the streets freely, dress in Western clothes and enjoy sports — seemed particularly concerned about the authority of Islamic fundamentalist fighters.

Interviewed in her sparsely furnished Fallouja home in early September, one woman offered a searing account of how women's lives had changed since the fighters rose to power.

Before the discussion, her husband, a government worker in the Iraqi Finance Ministry, admonished the reporter not to ask his wife about politics and to avoid publishing the family name. But for women in Fallouja, the line between politics and life is thin indeed. The Islamic militants who now run the city have focused much of their energy on censuring women's behavior in the name of eliminating "vice."

Bushraa, 41, a mother of nine who eschewed wearing the head covering known as the hijab at home, even with a guest present, said the atmosphere started becoming restrictive in June, when armed Islamists, many of them teenagers, began to roam the streets.

The men masked the lower halves of their faces, Bushraa said, making it difficult to know whether they were strangers or neighbors. Only their accents gave some of them away as Arabs from outside Iraq.

She began to hear stories about militants striking women for small perceived infractions. Her teenage daughters encountered the insurgents on their way to school and refused to leave the house without a black head-to-toe abaya.

"I only have one [abaya], and I wanted to take my daughter to the market. She said, 'Mother, we have to buy another one.' I usually go out like this with just a scarf," Bushraa said, gesturing to her colorful housedress. "I didn't even wear hijab before, but now I'm afraid."

Bushraa said she no longer feels free to go alone to a friend's house, for fear that the mujahedin will humiliate her in public. They scold women wearing makeup; they have even targeted beauty salons, she said.

"I have a close friend who owned a salon. She has a very good reputation. And she got a threat saying they would destroy it. One of her salons they destroyed three times. Each time she rebuilt it. The last time, they threatened to kill her in it."

Like some Fallouja women, including her friend whose shop was bombed, Bushraa is a quiet rebel. Her friend set up the salon equipment in her kitchen, and Bushraa and her friends swathed themselves in abayas, walked swiftly through the rubble-filled streets and slipped through her back door to have their hair done.

"My friend's husband has a heart problem," she said. "She's responsible for the family [income]. The mujahedin don't understand that."

But that was in September. Since then, as the foreign fighters have continued to flow into the city — and the Americans settled into a daily routine of bombing — Bushraa's family has packed up and moved to Syria.


If you want other stories on this topic, search the Archives at latimes.com/archives.

Article licensing and reprint options









Copyright 2004 Los Angeles Times
By visiting this site, you are agreeing to our Privacy Policy
Terms of Service.

[Nickdfresh]

Iraqi briefed on Falluja plans missing
Marines concerned captain could pass along information
From Karl Penhaul, embedded with the Marines
Saturday, November 6, 2004 Posted: 4:42 PM EST (2142 GMT)


U.S. Marines participate in a briefing Saturday at their base outside Falluja in Anbar province.
Image:

NEAR FALLUJA, Iraq (CNN) -- A company commander of the Iraqi security forces who received a full briefing on the expected Falluja assault is missing from a military base where U.S. and Iraqi troops are preparing for the possible operation.

The captain, a Kurd with no known ties to the Sunni city of Falluja, is thought to have taken notes from the battle briefing late Thursday. U.S. Marines and his fellow Iraqi officers found no sign of him Friday morning, except for his uniform and a weapon on his cot.

Marines are concerned that the information he knows could be passed along to insurgents. U.S. military sources believe insurgents have friends in the military and government.

The captain commands a company of about 160 men. He is among 10,000 U.S. and Iraqi forces expected to take part in the operation.

Marines say the captain's disappearance won't alter the tactics or timing of the Falluja operation.

Coalition officials hope the missing captain, who was not named, has merely headed home.

Most Kurds in Iraq live in the northeast corner of the country, several hundred miles from Falluja.

Falluja has been in insurgent hands since late April, when Marines were ordered to withdraw from the city's perimeter.

Responsibility for the city was given to a squad of former Iraqi soldiers and police who were from the city, but the insurgency has continued.

The Abu Musab al-Zarqawi terror network is based in Falluja, according to the U.S. and Iraqi governments.

The group has taken responsibility for car bombings, kidnappings and beheadings throughout Iraq. In mid-October, a statement from the terror group posted on an Islamist Web site declared allegiance to Osama bin Laden.

[Nickdfresh]

So much for our "allies."

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
So much for our "allies."

You're probably celebrating about that one, aren't you Lib?

[Nickdfresh]

No, just providing insightful honesty and truth, which this adminstration lacks.

[wraytw]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
No, just providing insightful honesty and truth, which this adminstration lacks.

You're selling yourself short if you think honesty is a trait that any administration has held. :)

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by wraytw
You're selling yourself short if you think honesty is a trait that any administration has held. :)

Agreed.

-But-

Some are more dishonest than others, especially when they have caused catastrophic blunders like going into Iraq:confused:

They simply have more to cover up and distort.

[Nickdfresh]

CNN reports fighting on the outskirts of Falluja and continued bombardment from the air and artillery on the ground.

Fox News reports Marines and their armor have moved to "staging areas" and that Iraqi commandos are siezing religious sites on the outskirts of the city.

[BigBadBrian]

bump

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
bump

WTF BigBad?

[BigBadBrian]

bump

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
bump

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Bump!

Gonna' start acting like JC Cook now baby boy!

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Gonna' start acting like JC Cook now baby boy!

I bumped it for a reason, dickweed. I'm writing a paper on Fourth Generation Warfare and needed some recent articles. These gave me some recent links. Something about you and FORD posting homo references, I swear...... :rolleyes:

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
I bumped it for a reason, dickweed. I'm writing a paper on Fourth Generation Warfare and needed some recent articles. These gave me some recent links. Something about you and FORD posting homo references, I swear...... :rolleyes:

All I wanted to know! Guess I'm good for something huh?!