View Full Version : Should we push Ford into the Clock Tower? What the hell!
John Ashcroft
11-05-2004, 03:05 PM
COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) - An error with an electronic voting system gave President Bush 3,893 extra votes in suburban Columbus, elections officials said.
Franklin County's unofficial results had Bush receiving 4,258 votes to Democrat John Kerry's 260 votes in a precinct in Gahanna. Records show only 638 voters cast ballots in that precinct.
Bush actually received 365 votes in the precinct, Matthew Damschroder, director of the Franklin County Board of Elections, told The Columbus Dispatch.
State and county election officials did not immediately respond to requests by The Associated Press for more details about the voting system and its vendor, and whether the error, if repeated elsewhere in Ohio, could have affected the outcome.
Bush won the state by more than 136,000 votes, according to unofficial results, and Kerry conceded the election on Wednesday after acknowledging that 155,000 provisional ballots yet to be counted in Ohio would not change the result.
The Secretary of State's Office said Friday it could not revise Bush's total until the county reported the error.
The Ohio glitch is among a handful of computer troubles that have emerged since Tuesday's elections.
In one North Carolina county, more than 4,500 votes were lost because officials mistakenly believed a computer that stored ballots electronically could hold more data than it did. And in San Francisco, a malfunction with custom voting software could delay efforts to declare the winners of four races for county supervisor.
In the Ohio precinct in question, the votes are recorded onto a cartridge. On one of the three machines at that precinct, a malfunction occurred in the recording process, Damschroder said. He could not explain how the malfunction occurred.
Damschroder said people who had seen poll results on the election board's Web site called to point out the discrepancy. The error would have been discovered when the official count for the election is performed later this month, he said.
The reader also recorded zero votes in a county commissioner race on the machine.
Workers checked the cartridge against memory banks in the voting machine and each showed that 115 people voted for Bush on that machine. With the other machines, the total for Bush in the precinct added up to 365 votes.
Meanwhile, in San Francisco, a glitch occurred with software designed for the city's new "ranked-choice voting," in which voters list their top three choices for municipal offices. If no candidate gets a majority of first-place votes outright, voters' second and third-place preferences are then distributed among candidates who weren't eliminated in the first round.
When the San Francisco Department of Elections tried a test run on Wednesday of the program that does the redistribution, some of the votes didn't get counted and skewed the results, director John Arntz said.
"All the information is there," Arntz said. "It's just not arriving the way it was supposed to."
A technician from the Omaha, Neb. company that designed the software, Election Systems & Software Inc., was working to diagnose and fix the problem.
Link: here (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041105/D865R1DO0.html)
Switch84
11-05-2004, 03:08 PM
:eek: :p Uh oh, HIDE YER CHILDREN! HIDE YER WIVES! LOAD YER GUNS!
FORD'S GONNA CUT LOOSE!
lmmfaobt
Here's a hypothetical for you Busheep....
I know the reich wing media has tried to scapegoat George Soros, so we'll use him in this example.....
Let's say George Soros owned a company that made electronic voting machines that were based on Microsoft Access, and contained no capaibilities of producing a physical record of the actual votes cast on the machine.
Now let's say that Soros personally guaranteed that he would "deliver the electoral votes" of his home state, which uses these machines, to John Kerry.
Soros' home state was the last one to report in, and despite exit polls which read to the contrary, Kerry emerges the winner. Without a shred of physical evidence to prove it.
What is your reaction, right wingers??
Catfish
11-05-2004, 03:25 PM
MY reaction?
Eat a bag of shit, bitch!
FOUR MORE YEARS!!!! FOUR MORE YEARS!!!!
John Ashcroft
11-05-2004, 03:33 PM
Here's a hypothetical for you...
Let's say the NAALCP pays street people with crack to register Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck, etc. etc... And another liberal organization takes mentally incompetent people to get absentee ballots to vote for Kerry. And even more liberals register more voters than a particular county has citizens, all provisional and absentee. Yeah, a few of them get caught, but a whole bunch succeed in voting illegally, giving the "New JFK" undeserved votes.
Oh wait a minute... This isn't a hypothetical, it actually happened all over the place in this election. Never mind.
ODShowtime
11-05-2004, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by Catfish
Eat a bag of shit, bitch!
I'll be taking that one thank you :)
Warham
11-05-2004, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by John Ashcroft
Here's a hypothetical for you...
Let's say the NAALCP pays street people with crack to register Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck, etc. etc... And another liberal organization takes mentally incompetent people to get absentee ballots to vote for Kerry. And even more liberals register more voters than a particular county has citizens, all provisional and absentee. Yeah, a few of them get caught, but a whole bunch succeed in voting illegally, giving the "New JFK" undeserved votes.
Oh wait a minute... This isn't a hypothetical, it actually happened all over the place in this election. Never mind.
I think FORD can close this thread now.
Thank you Ashcroft!
:D
I'd really like one of you hypocrites to answer the question.
BrownSound1
11-05-2004, 05:29 PM
Ah, but the thing is....they found the error with the electronic device, and know what the correct total is. ;)
Switch84
11-05-2004, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by John Ashcroft
Here's a hypothetical for you...
Let's say the NAACP pays street people with crack to register Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck, etc. etc... And another liberal organization takes mentally incompetent people to get absentee ballots to vote for Kerry. And even more liberals register more voters than a particular county has citizens, all provisional and absentee. Yeah, a few of them get caught, but a whole bunch succeed in voting illegally, giving the "New JFK" undeserved votes.
Oh wait a minute... This isn't a hypothetical, it actually happened all over the place in this election. Never mind.
:mad: Let's not forget another Liberal brouhaha that blew up in their faces here in Georgia, Ashcroft! ILLEGAL ALIENS being 'registered' to vote via absentee ballot. That scam was exposed and challenged.
Ain't THAT a bitch?
BigBadBrian
11-05-2004, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by FORD
Here's a hypothetical for you Busheep....
I know the reich wing media has tried to scapegoat George Soros, so we'll use him in this example.....
Let's say George Soros owned a company that made electronic voting machines that were based on Microsoft Access, and contained no capaibilities of producing a physical record of the actual votes cast on the machine.
Now let's say that Soros personally guaranteed that he would "deliver the electoral votes" of his home state, which uses these machines, to John Kerry.
Soros' home state was the last one to report in, and despite exit polls which read to the contrary, Kerry emerges the winner. Without a shred of physical evidence to prove it.
What is your reaction, right wingers??
My reaction is MS Access doesn't have the DB capabilites you just described. Better go get Larry Ellison at Oracle. It's much more suited. :gulp:
Originally posted by Brownsound1
Ah, but the thing is....they found the error with the electronic device, and know what the correct total is. ;)
And how do you know that's true? Where is the evidence of this?
The fact is that without a tangible record of each vote recorded on the machine, it is impossible to ensure the integrity of elections.
And in a Presidential election,that is especially unacceptable.
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
My reaction is MS Access doesn't have the DB capabilites you just described. Better go get Larry Ellison at Oracle. It's much more suited. :gulp:
The Diebold machines use a system called GEMS which is based on MS Access (http://www.wildboar.net/politics/voting/articles/scoop/S00065.htm).
Not that I'd trust Larry Ellison either, as he was trying to sell the Mark of the Beast microchip ID system to the BCE immediately after 9-11-01.
Nickdfresh
11-05-2004, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by FORD
Here's a hypothetical for you Busheep....
I know the reich wing media has tried to scapegoat George Soros, so we'll use him in this example.....
Let's say George Soros owned a company that made electronic voting machines that were based on Microsoft Access, and contained no capaibilities of producing a physical record of the actual votes cast on the machine.
Now let's say that Soros personally guaranteed that he would "deliver the electoral votes" of his home state, which uses these machines, to John Kerry.
Soros' home state was the last one to report in, and despite exit polls which read to the contrary, Kerry emerges the winner. Without a shred of physical evidence to prove it.
What is your reaction, right wingers??
It is interesting how the tighty righties can never seem to balance their partisanship by placing themselves in the reverse perspective and imagining how they would react if the tables were turned. Good post Ford. I wonder how they would react to the Democratic equivalent of the Ken Starr investigating Pres. Bush's nefarious connections to the Bin Ladens?:confused:
ODShowtime
11-05-2004, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I wonder how they would react to the Democratic equivalent of the Ken Starr investigating Pres. Bush's nefarious connections to the Bin Ladens?:confused:
Simple, he'd wind up in a river somewhere.:(
Big Train
11-05-2004, 06:55 PM
I say go ahead, be my guest, PLEASE DO IT. Investigate it all because unofficially you have been doing it for awhile (newspapers etc..) and have found JACK SHIT. Let's make it all official if it will put it to rest.
ODShowtime
11-05-2004, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
Investigate it all because unofficially you have been doing it for awhile (newspapers etc..) and have found JACK SHIT.
You do realize that gw&friends have been touted as the most secret administration of all time right? You realize they have done more to keep their business secret than any admin ever right? Why would that be?
Viking
11-05-2004, 07:29 PM
LMFAO@Switch84........ :killer:
ELVIS
11-05-2004, 07:33 PM
Viking, could you please shed some light on FORD's Diebold machine conspiracy...
And still nobody's answered the question (aside from Brian's innacurate reply about software)
ELVIS
11-05-2004, 07:39 PM
Originally posted by FORD
What is your reaction, right wingers??
I would say Kerry won fair and square, because I trust people and institutions in general, and especially our voting process as a whole...
There, you happy ??
No...
:elvis:
Warham
11-05-2004, 08:33 PM
FORD,
Please stop before you look foolish. Ooops. Too late.
If Kerry had won on those machines, there would be no conspiracy from you. You would have said they were perfectly accurate then.
Nickdfresh
11-05-2004, 11:06 PM
E-vote goes smoothly, but experts skeptical
No paper trail means software glitches, tampering may go unnoticed
Thursday, November 4, 2004 Posted: 10:43 AM EST (1543 GMT)
MIAMI, Florida (AP) -- After only scattered problems in electronic voting's biggest day ever in the United States, with roughly 40 million people casting digital ballots, voting equipment company executives crowed.
To them, the relatively smooth election was a vindication of paperless touch-screen systems.
For more than a year, computer scientists and voting rights advocates had vigorously assailed the nation's 175,000 touch-screen machines as insecure and unreliable, prone to software bugs, hackers and hardware failures.
Some naysayers had even predicted worst-case scenarios in which the ATM-like computers deleted or altered votes, machines overheated and crashed under record turnout.
That's not to say that electronic voting was trouble-free.
On Tuesday, poll workers in New Orleans had numerous problems operating the equipment. On Election Day during early voting, several dozen voters in six states reported difficulty selecting candidates, apparently due to miscalibration.
Tuesday's vote was not marred, however, by the problems that plagued primaries earlier this year -- power outages, missing memory cartridges, machines that displayed the wrong ballots and suspicious delays in reporting results.
"It was a very positive day for the American voting system generally and for electronic voting machines particularly," said Harris Miller, president of the industry trade group Information Technology Association of America, which represents voting equipment companies. "The machines performed beautifully ... Instead of theories about catastrophes, the simple reality is that the machines produce accurate results and the voters love them."
Computer scientists reserved judgment.
Many acknowledged that the hardware performed well. But software errors may have changed results, they said. The vast majority of touch screens in the United States do not produce paper records. And that means, critics say, that the machines could alter or delete ballots without anyone noticing.
"What has most concerned scientists are problems that are not observable, so the fact that no major problems were observed says nothing about the system," said David Jefferson, a computer scientist at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in California. "The fact that we had a relatively smooth election yesterday does not change at all the vulnerability these systems have to fraud or bugs."
Avi Rubin, one of the nation's leading critics of e-voting, said he was relieved and encouraged that the machines didn't fail en masse on Election Day.
But Rubin, who worked in Maryland as a poll judge Tuesday, still supports major changes in election technology -- including requirements that the machines produce paper records, and that independent researchers be permitted to examine their software for problems.
"I've been saying all along that my biggest fear is that someone would program a machine to give a wrong answer," said Rubin, a Johns Hopkins computer scientist. "If that were to happen, the machine would still work fine -- we just wouldn't know it."
Statisticians at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and California Institute of Technology are asking county election officials throughout the nation for raw election data and hope to perform "forensic tests" that could take at least a month. The fledgling U.S. Election Assistance Commission is also compiling data and plans to issue a report later this month.
Research will include comparisons of the number of voters and the number of ballots cast in random precincts, an attempt to determine whether votes were mysteriously lost.
According to an MIT/CalTech study, 8.2 percent of touch-screen votes in senatorial elections between 1998 and 2000 were lost -- more than any other system except lever machines, which lost 9.5 percent of votes.
Other critics said comfortable, sometimes predictable margins of victory in states with electronic voting -- Bush in Georgia and Florida, Kerry in California and Maryland -- will minimize scrutiny of touch-screen results.
A razor-thin outcome could have prompted a recount, but it would have likely been challenged in court because votes cast on touch screens -- everywhere but in Nevada -- cannot be manually recounted owing to the lack of a paper trail.
Ohio, where votes were still being counted Wednesday, does not rely heavily on electronic systems.
"We've resolved in our heads to provide scrutiny only when the election is close, and that's a bad way of approaching it," said Lida Rodriguez-Taseff, chairwoman of the Miami-Dade Election Reform Coalition. "We need to apply scrutiny every time so we know we have a healthy process." More than half of Florida voters cast electronic ballots.
David Bear, spokesman for Diebold Inc., which has about 45,000 machines installed nationwide, said more counties will switch to touch screens -- particularly for early voting.
Because they can toggle between ballots in dozens of precincts, election officials can consolidate polling places for early voting, reducing lines on Election Day.
The machines also toggle between languages and can be equipped with headphones for blind voters.
Bear dismissed the notion that comfortable margins obscured problems.
"There was no dodging of a bullet," Bear said. "The fact of the matter is, electronic voting is a better way of voting because touch screens are more accurate and they meet people's special needs."
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Copyright 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
DrMaddVibe
11-28-2004, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by Catfish
MY reaction?
Eat a bag of shit, bitch!
FOUR MORE YEARS!!!! FOUR MORE YEARS!!!!
Sticky that and add a star!:splooge:
Nickdfresh
11-28-2004, 08:26 PM
Stop kicking up the thread Assvibe!!
Dr. Love
11-28-2004, 08:56 PM
MS Access? No wonder they were last to report in.
Seshmeister
11-28-2004, 09:26 PM
I'm fucking stunned they used MS Access.
Unbelievable.
I've been developing commercial database applications for 15 years using Microsoft products and I guarantee you can drive a fucking truck through what laughably is described as secuity in Access. In fact I have on a number of occasions where people had forgotten passwords. You don't need to be any sort of technical whiz either, a few google searches would show you how.
Secondly, how much fucking money did they charge for this 'Grade school project" software? I heard millions.
MS Access is for Scout leaders to keep little databases of who turned up for camp or for people to do little reports of how many CDs they have.
Holy shit
I'm appalled, no wonder FORD has his pants in a twist.
And no wonder Viking has gone quiet...:)
Cheers!
:gulp:
Nickdfresh
11-28-2004, 10:12 PM
Now your making me paranoid! Stop with the old election threads already!
Cathedral
11-28-2004, 10:24 PM
There needs to be a paper trail to keep both sides in order, period.
I used a punch card, and i dusted off all the little chaddies that didn't want to let go.
You see, it isn't just one side attempting voter fraud, so the same argument Ford makes for his sheep can be waged by the Republican side as well.
DrMaddVibe
11-28-2004, 10:45 PM
Stop being a woim Nick!
ELVIS
11-28-2004, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
I'm appalled, no wonder FORD has his pants in a twist.
And no wonder Viking has gone quiet...:)
There's obvisouly some validity to this, but it applies to both sides...
I agree that there should be some sort of paper trail...
ELVIS
11-28-2004, 11:36 PM
Obvisouly ??
Yes, OBVISOULY !!!
:D
Switch84
11-28-2004, 11:53 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
Obvisouly ??
Yes, OBVISOULY !!!
:D
:bottle: :lol: Somebody play "Sinners Swing" for the KING.....
I'm a fan of Absolut, meself.
ELVIS
11-28-2004, 11:56 PM
Hahahaha...:D
Dr. Love
11-29-2004, 12:01 AM
It's kinda surprising that something like an election software can be written off MS Access and sell so well. This was a multimillion dollar deal, right?
Couldn't they afford to use some REAL DB technology??
Switch84
11-29-2004, 12:18 AM
Originally posted by Dr. Love
It's kinda surprising that something like an election software can be written off MS Access and sell so well. This was a multimillion dollar deal, right?
Couldn't they afford to use some REAL DB technology??
:D Wouldn't it be funny if a 12 year old kid designed this shit?
BUWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA!!!
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