DaveIsKing WAS WRONG!!! Bush Sucks!

[DaveIsKing]

:mad2:

I voted for him. And he pulls this fucking shit AGAIN...why didn't he do it BEFORE the election???

Because he knew the majority of Americans and LEGAL immigrants oppose it.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20041110-123424-5467r.htm

Fuck you, you goddamn asshole. I can only hope he angers the Republicans enought to shove this bullshit back down his throat.

[Dr. Love]

That will cost him a lot of 'political capital' that I'd rather see spent on Tax Reform and Social Security Reform.

[FORD]

Pretty goddamn pathetic when it's harder for an American to get into Canada for a week than it is for a Mexican to get into America permanently.

Another stellar example of BCE "leadership" :rolleyes:

[aesop]

I agree I'm not really happy with this. I think he's taking 'Compassionate Conservative' too far. There are already rumblings in the House and Senate. I hope this is a one-shot deal.

The only thing that would be realy funny is if all of the Mexicans moved to California and voted Republican.

[FORD]

Originally posted by aesop
I agree I'm not really happy with this. I think he's taking 'Compassionate Conservative' too far. There are already rumblings in the House and Senate. I hope this is a one-shot deal.

The only thing that would be realy funny is if all of the Mexicans moved to California and voted Republican.

I'm sure that's the entire plan. And if a few "terra-ists" walk across the border with them, hey...even more "political capital" for pResident Diebold. :rolleyes:

[Denny]

Originally posted by FORD
I'm sure that's the entire plan. And if a few "terra-ists" walk across the border with them, hey...even more "political capital" for pResident Diebold. :rolleyes:

Could you run the Country any better, Fuck tard????

[aesop]

Yea, the border's a problem. But at least us conservatives on this board can admit when we don't like our own partie's policies. I've yet to see that from the left.

[Cathedral]

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch whose flame
Is imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep ancient lands your storied pomp!" cries she with silent lips.

"Give me your tired your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Emma Lazarus (1849-1887)



I am against closing off the borders, and i personally think it is a good thing to give illegals a way in which they can provide for their families a better income than they can have in Mexico.
It is a step in the right direction if we can document all who enter this country from foreign lands.
Family Values do not stop at our border, and they are eager to work those jobs which most Americans refuse to work.

If you really think about it, this does go a long way in securing our borders from those who cross it. If they want a job, then they must register in the work force program, and if it works they way i assume it will, it will be a crime for an employer to employ an alien without the proper documents to prove they are in fact eligible to work in the United States.

Bush did interviews during the campaign on this subject, so i don't see where he "downplayed it"...This comes as no surprise to me, and i see it as a step in the right direction.

You cannot fault anyone for seeking a better quality of life.
This would be a huge leap in decreasing the number of illegals crossing the border who we would otherwise not know are here.

Think about it, If so many people are here illegally, don't you think that if they had a way to be tracked it would also help by decreasing the number of questionable people roaming our cities?

I think it would make it easier to spot those who try to fly into our country under the radar, with intent to attack us.

It wouldn't solve the whole problem of course, but it does fall in line of what this country has stood for for over 200 years.
And knowing who is here from other lands is much better than not knowing.
Coming to America should not be a crime, and for those who wish to remain Mexican citizens, they should have a way to come and go without being deamed a criminal.

The Statue of Liberty has been a long standing invitation to immigrants to seek a better life, and you can't invite people to your home for dinner and then make them eat outside while you sit at the dining room table.

Look, working with those who seek to work here is far better than placing soldiers on the borders that will surely lead to people getting killed when their only desire is a better life for their families and themselves.

[DaveIsKing]

Sure, let's reward illegal behavior and kill the "sanctity of citizenship". Isn't a priviledge to be an American anymore? Natural-born or Naturalized?

What the hell is the benefit when illegals can come in and get all the benefits without paying their "dues"? Fuck'em!

That's why people hate illegals. It isn't because they are from Mexico or Cuba. It is because the government REWARDS them for BREAKING THE LAW while CITIZENS and LEGAL IMMIGRANTS suffer the consequences.

Sorry, Catheral. This is the real world, not utopia.

[Cathedral]

No, this is America, Land of the Free and Home of The Brave.

Don't insult me by telling me i'm not living in the real world. I am one of the few people i know that hasn't changed my view of what America stands for because of 9-11.

You want to have a knee-jerk reaction to it and close off the borders, sytematically flipping off the world...I don't agree with that message, and that is my point.

They pay taxes on their incomes here, so what dues exactly are you referring to?
I guess if you live in say, Ohio...You can't work in Kentucky?

I don't understand this "Slam the door" mentallity, unless it is based on fear.
I have no fear of anything on this earth. If i am killed then it is what it is, and it will be God's will.

Yeah, I live in Utopia? Give me a break, YOU live in fear and would like to change the goal of America by shutting down the borders...sorry, but you just said to the terrorists that they win.

[DaveIsKing]

Ok, Let us just begin to legalize illegal behavior across the board. Fuck citizenship!!



DUES?? TAXES???

Most illegal aliens do not receive a typical paycheck with tax deductions -- they are paid in cash and do not pay taxes. Even when they do pay taxes (only possible if they use fraudulent social security numbers or government assigned ID tax numbers), their meager income is not enough to pay for medical expenses and all the expenses for all the children they give birth to. You don't have to look at statistics -- just visit the maternal ward at the L.A. county hospital. There, illegal immigrant women are having thousands of children per year free of charge and can't afford them once they give birth, and that doesn't stop them from having even more children -- most learn how to work the system so that they receive cash assistance and food stamps.

A basic principle in economics is this: The more people that assimilate into the system the better -- if it creates a larger tax base. But it hasn't. For example, the feds had to bail out the L.A. County hospital system several years ago and the county hospitals are now again headed for another crisis. The evidence shows that the net results are that illegal immigrants cost the taxpayer significantly more than they pay in taxes.

[Cathedral]

I can't and won't argue that point, for it is a valid one.

Look man, I'm not saying that the system doesn't need an overhaul. All i am saying is that Bush has a plan to eliminate a large number of illegals that don't want to become citizens of the U.S.

Times have surely changed though, that is a fact, so we must adapt to keep our country secure.
The problem though isn't with those crossing the borders to find better paying jobs. The problem is as you pointed out, Employers bucking the system by hiring illegals who are paid under the table.

Let's put the blame where it belongs, and if they couldn't find those "under the table" jobs in the first place, it wouldn't be an issue.

I worked for a company that employed Mexicans that had no green cards or S.S. numbers, but they still paid the same tax i did by having a work ID#.

These are the people i believe Bush is trying to help by giving them an incentive to follow the laws of immigration.

I see your point, but i think your conclusion is pre-mature, that's all.

[DaveIsKing]

"The problem is as you pointed out, Employers bucking the system by hiring illegals who are paid under the table."

This is true.

But, Bush is trying to be another Woodrow Wilson-- Saviour of the World. It didn't work then and it won't work now.

I am sick of international presidents, how about another American president. I hate to say it, but at least Bill "Playboy" Clinton concentrated on AMERICA instead of everywhere else all the damn time. And he knew to send that boy back to Cuba where his Daddy was.

[DaveIsKing]

Originally posted by Cathedral
I can't and won't argue that point, for it is a valid one.

Look man, I'm not saying that the system doesn't need an overhaul. All i am saying is that Bush has a plan to eliminate a large number of illegals that don't want to become citizens of the U.S.

Times have surely changed though, that is a fact, so we must adapt to keep our country secure.
The problem though isn't with those crossing the borders to find better paying jobs. The problem is as you pointed out, Employers bucking the system by hiring illegals who are paid under the table.

Let's put the blame where it belongs, and if they couldn't find those "under the table" jobs in the first place, it wouldn't be an issue.

I worked for a company that employed Mexicans that had no green cards or S.S. numbers, but they still paid the same tax i did by having a work ID#.

These are the people i believe Bush is trying to help by giving them an incentive to follow the laws of immigration.

I see your point, but i think your conclusion is pre-mature, that's all.


WHAT ABOUT "ANCHOR BABIES"?

[FORD]

Originally posted by Denny
Could you run the Country any better, Fuck tard????

Hell yes I could.

[Denny]

Originally posted by FORD
Hell yes I could.

Sure about that?????

;)

[FORD]

Considering 42 other guys have done better than him, it wouldn't be that difficult.

[DaveIsKing]

Woodrow W. Bush: SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD...

Ridiculous!

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Denny
Could you run the Country any better, Fuck tard????

97 posts and not ONE vote?

Hard to imagine with stellar posts such as this.

dont fear education. Try some.

And the answer to your rhetorical question is YES.

now go have someone look up the word rhetorical for you

[Denny]

Originally posted by FORD
Considering 42 other guys have done better than him, it wouldn't be that difficult.

Ok then, Smart Ass what would YOU do?????

[Denny]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
97 posts and not ONE vote?

Hard to imagine with stellar posts such as this.

dont fear education. Try some.

And the answer to your rhetorical question is YES.

now go have someone look up the word rhetorical for you

Go fuck yourself :)

[ODShowtime]

Surprise, gw bullshitted people!

"An amnesty by any other name is still an amnesty, regardless of what the White House wants to call it," said Rep. Tom Tancredo, Colorado Republican and chairman of the Congressional Immigration Reform Caucus.
"Their amnesty plan was dead on arrival when they sent it to the Congress in January, and if they send the same pig with lipstick back to Congress next January, it will suffer the same fate," he said.

[DaveIsKing]

As much as I hate to admit it---You're Right, ODShowtime.

Goddamnit, you're right.

[conmee]

Gentlemen,

Actually, this is a coup for the BCE. You see, being in his final term, Mssr. Bush can roll out a few agenda items, that on the surface, seem to be incongruous in the context of Republican beliefs and initiatives.

With regard to amnesty or a program that moves down that path, the BCE has just won the hearts of a majority of Latino/Hispanic voters (a much more active and larger segment of the voting population than the blacks or Asians). With both George from Texas and Jeb in Florida (border states with significant Latino voting implications--and with Arnold in California--can you imagine if another 5 million lettuce/grape pickers in Cali were legal and had voted Republican?!?!) , this is exactly the kind of message that will give the Republicans a stronghold in a minority voting segment. Doesn't matter that it will go nowhere. The fact that many illegals, and their LEGALLY resident family members will look to the BCE as proponents and protectors of Latino folks is a stroke of genius!!!! lmao And just to show the Latino community that the BCE really CARES.... the BCE puts a Latino in CHARGE of the national security agenda....

Welcome aboard, Senor Alberto Gonzales. Como esta usted? Muy bien, muchas gracias!

lmao

Lastly, 99% of the illegal Latinos in America WANT to be legal residents, but the process isn't exactly a sure thing, as many will be forced back to their country of origin and go through a somewhat arduous and uncertain process in achieving legal status. So the idea of amnesty is, of course, near and dear to so many illegals' hearts. lol... And when they are OFFICIAL in this country, the tax revenue from their jobs will pay for the services they use and the tax breaks the BCE gives to the rich.

More breaks for the rich on the (wet)backs of the Latino community!!! A stroke of genius!!!! lmao ;)

Seig Oil!!!!

:monkey:

Icon.

[DaveIsKing]

You know, conmee, unfortunately that makes a lot of sense.

[ODShowtime]

Hell's yeah, just like when gw makes anti-abortion or anti-gay marriage laws that will never pass congress. But they are talking points for the really stupid sheep.

DAVEISKING, gw has a lot of political capital left to spend, so strap in tight...

[aesop]

That stupid, moronic mindset just cracks me up. Another total crock of liberal BS. 20% of the US population pays OVER 80% of the fed tax already. You guys have bought the BS line that rich people don't pay enough taxes. That's BS. Anyone with a job pays taxes. The tax code is already Progressive. That the hell else do you want? How do you give tax breaks to people who don't pay taxes in the first place??

'Rich' people also probably pay 50% more in sales taxes, and 100% more in luxury taxes. They also give you a job (assuming your not on the Government's nipple). Finally, they SAVE money in banks, etc., so the bank has money for you to get a loan to buy your house. So drop this groundless 'class warefare' bullshit. It's lame, and anyone who has ever taken an Econ 101 class can dis-prove it.

[DaveIsKing]

I am very disheartened with this Illegal Amnesty shit. I do not embrace liberal philosophy, I am more of a Randian libertarian. But, this bullshit pisses me off.

And he just named a Latino as ATTORNEY GENERAL...yay...W...you fucking cocksucker. And guess who are the majority of ILLEGALS... hmmmm....why don't he just name a PALESTINIAN or an AFGHAN to head up HOMELAND SECURITY.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Cathedral
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch whose flame
Is imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep ancient lands your storied pomp!" cries she with silent lips.

"Give me your tired your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Emma Lazarus (1849-1887)



I am against closing off the borders, and i personally think it is a good thing to give illegals a way in which they can provide for their families a better income than they can have in Mexico.
It is a step in the right direction if we can document all who enter this country from foreign lands.
Family Values do not stop at our border, and they are eager to work those jobs which most Americans refuse to work.

If you really think about it, this does go a long way in securing our borders from those who cross it. If they want a job, then they must register in the work force program, and if it works they way i assume it will, it will be a crime for an employer to employ an alien without the proper documents to prove they are in fact eligible to work in the United States.

Bush did interviews during the campaign on this subject, so i don't see where he "downplayed it"...This comes as no surprise to me, and i see it as a step in the right direction.

You cannot fault anyone for seeking a better quality of life.
This would be a huge leap in decreasing the number of illegals crossing the border who we would otherwise not know are here.

Think about it, If so many people are here illegally, don't you think that if they had a way to be tracked it would also help by decreasing the number of questionable people roaming our cities?

I think it would make it easier to spot those who try to fly into our country under the radar, with intent to attack us.

It wouldn't solve the whole problem of course, but it does fall in line of what this country has stood for for over 200 years.
And knowing who is here from other lands is much better than not knowing.
Coming to America should not be a crime, and for those who wish to remain Mexican citizens, they should have a way to come and go without being deamed a criminal.

The Statue of Liberty has been a long standing invitation to immigrants to seek a better life, and you can't invite people to your home for dinner and then make them eat outside while you sit at the dining room table.

Look, working with those who seek to work here is far better than placing soldiers on the borders that will surely lead to people getting killed when their only desire is a better life for their families and themselves.

I agree. I just wish there was a way to minimize the security risk like the possibility of al-Qaida members walking in using the Mexican workers as cover.

[DaveIsKing]

Too bad these wonderful dreams aren't applicable to reality.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by DaveIsKing
I am very disheartened with this Illegal Amnesty shit. I do not embrace liberal philosophy, I am more of a Randian libertarian. But, this bullshit pisses me off.

And he just named a Latino as ATTORNEY GENERAL...yay...W...you fucking cocksucker. And guess who are the majority of ILLEGALS... hmmmm....why don't he just name a PALESTINIAN or an AFGHAN to head up HOMELAND SECURITY.

Maybe W. knows that these workers benefit the U.S. economy by providing cheap labor (which for them is a living wage back in Mexico) for jobs that Americans don't want to do.

It also boosts Mexico's economy making our border more secure in the long run.

[Switch84]

Originally posted by aesop
Yea, the border's a problem. But at least us conservatives on this board can admit when we don't like our own partie's policies. I've yet to see that from the left.

:D I wonder if Dubya's 'open arms' approach to the illegal taco eaters is just because he has one in his family? Dumb idea, Dubya!

And it WON'T pass. Dubya wil get bitch-slapped on this one.

I'll volunteer for that, y'all!

[DaveIsKing]

Typical Myth, Nick...:rolleyes:

Prior to 1965 when the disastrous Immigration Bill was passed, there was very little immigration. In fact, between 1925 and 1965, there was even a period of net emigration out of the United States. During this time, our grass was getting cut, our meat was being packed, our children were being watched and our houses were being cleaned. The idea that somehow we suddenly can't run a country without an unlimited supply of foreigners is absurd.

Those in favor of foreign labor are corporations who are addicted to cheap labor. They are the ones who are benefiting. But their benefit comes at the American tax payer's expense when you consider that the American tax payer is virtually subsidizing the labor costs of the greedy corporations by supplying the illegal foreign workers and their families with welfare, free education, free medical, WICs, housing assistance, etc. -- something the corporations won't do.

Americans won't allow themselves to be exploited like illegals do, but they WILL do the work that illegals do for fair compensation and benefits. If Americans did the work that illegals do at higher pay, would that benefit the consumer? You bet it would in the long run. But many Americans who do not care about America's future are consumers who favor the idea of exploiting illegal workers because it keeps commodity and service prices down in the short term.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by DaveIsKing
Typical Myth, Nick...:rolleyes:

Prior to 1965 when the disastrous Immigration Bill was passed, there was very little immigration. In fact, between 1925 and 1965, there was even a period of net emigration out of the United States. During this time, our grass was getting cut, our meat was being packed, our children were being watched and our houses were being cleaned. The idea that somehow we suddenly can't run a country without an unlimited supply of foreigners is absurd.

Those in favor of foreign labor are corporations who are addicted to cheap labor. They are the ones who are benefiting. But their benefit comes at the American tax payer's expense when you consider that the American tax payer is virtually subsidizing the labor costs of the greedy corporations by supplying the illegal foreign workers and their families with welfare, free education, free medical, WICs, housing assistance, etc. -- something the corporations won't do.

Americans won't allow themselves to be exploited like illegals do, but they WILL do the work that illegals do for fair compensation and benefits. If Americans did the work that illegals do at higher pay, would that benefit the consumer? You bet it would in the long run. But many Americans who do not care about America's future are consumers who favor the idea of exploiting illegal workers because it keeps commodity and service prices down in the short term.

Ohhhh...Now I see, so it is really not the "little illegal taco eaters" you have a problem with, maybe it's the American corporations that take advantage of loopholes in laws to maximize profits and that actually foster illegal behaviors. Maybe now we're getting to the real issue.

[DaveIsKing]

I didn't say anything about "illegal taco eaters". Big Business monopolies hire these illegals, no doubt. But, Bush and the Big Gov ain't helping matters any.

And it is unfair to legal immigrants who go by the laws to have illegals rewarded for their behavior. Those businesses ought to be given a tax incentive to hire legal folk or a HEAVY FINE for hiring illegals.

[Switch84]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Ohhhh...Now I see, so it is really not the "little illegal taco eaters" you have a problem with, maybe it's the American corporations that take advantage of loopholes in laws to maximize profits and that actually foster illegal behaviors. Maybe now we're getting to the real issue.

:D In my honest opinion, that indeed is the problem! Big business pimping the illegal criminal (let's call a spade a spade, ok? They're criminals, plain and simple. Not 'immigrants'.)

This will not pass. An uprising of ugly proportions will erupt. This is a slap in the face to honest folk that are going through the immigration process legally.

[conmee]

Aesop,

In case you might have been directing some of your vitriol my way, let me remind you that I simply referenced tax breaks to folks like me and my BCE brethren, and mentioned nothing about whether or not the 'rich' pay their fair share or that the middle class pay too much.

As for Econ 101, economists are notorious for being able to prove or disprove just about anything and everything, making so many ASSUMPTIONS about market conditions and variables, "ceteris paribus" (all things equal) after all, that you can pretty much make an argument for fascism or communism using an economist's logic... lmao :) Anyone who's gone to B-school or even a business undergrad can tell you this much (true, my finance leanings are shining through... lmao).

At any rate, the tax code is progressive at first blush, when you consider the various brackets, so to speak. But it is far from progressive from a SYSTEMIC standpoint, with all sorts of exceptions, deductions, the so-called "loopholes" that are so reviled by the liberals. I use quite a few of them all the time. Granted, you have to make enough money (or be married with children/own a small business) to qualify for alot of this stuff in the first place, but that in effect reduces the "progressive" influence of the tax code at higher rates of income.

And you do mix use, sales, and income taxes in your argument that the 'rich' pay their fair share. In general, the argument is around income taxes. And if there are inequalities in income taxes, higher taxes on luxury or big ticket items doesn't make it fair, necessarily.

Lastly, you are correct about folks in poverty or folks who pay very little, if any taxes, but they aren't the ones complaining or carrying the bulk of the taxes. The so-called middle class does that. From a purely numbers perspective, true the 'rich' pay the bulk. But one thing to consider is they also have the bulk of the money (the top 5% of wealthy represent more than 95% of the country's wealth...), so they should pay more in absolute terms. Of course, there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.... and this entire discussion revolves around how we slice/dice the numbers, right? lol

Since you seem to enjoy economics, let's consider the "marginal utility of the dollar" or a dollar's worth, in the context of which tax bracket you find yourself in. As you know, there is the concept of DECREASING marginal utility of the dollar in economics. Essentially, it states that for every ADDITIONAL dollar you have, it is MARGINALLY of LESS value or worth to you than the previous. As an example: ONE additional dollar means a hell of a lot to a person making $10k per year. That one dollar on top of his $10k can mean the differnce between, oh, dog food and McDonalds. ONE additional dollar on top of $50 billion doesn't mean as much to a billionaire like Bill gates, where he probably earns a few thousand dollars per second on his various holdings. So who can more readily part with that one dollar if that dollar is assigned to paying some sort of tax? If we all had time, we can extrapolate this out to many other examples, and realize that when it comes to tax breaks, quite a few folks would argue that a tax break for a family of four making $50k per year would GO MUCH FURTHER in terms of benefitting the family than a break would go for someone like Bill Gates. If we use this concept as part of the basis for how we tax the wealth v. the middle class v. the poor, you can see how from a compassion standpoint, it makes more sense for the 'rich' to pay more in both absolute and percentage terms than folks who make much less. It's not so much that the rich are penalized, but that they can take the tax hit and still live their lives much easier than those folks who are just trying to get along in life.

Anyhoo, all this is academic, so to speak. I prefer a flat tax for income tax purposes, with absolutely no loopholes or deductions for anyone. Pay your 17% on EVERYTHING you earn, and move on. It would add clarity to the income tax discussion and eliminate the class warfare card/claims. The problem with a flat tax is that the government would then know exactly how much revenue they can expect year-in-year-out, and that would put a big dent in the pork-barrel tendencies of politicians who can mask alot of their agendas behind a convoluted tax code that requires armies of accountants, lawyers, and legislators to keep running smoothly.... lol

SIEG OIL!!!
SIEG TAXBREAKS!!!

Icon.

[Denny]

OIL AND TAX BREAKS ARE THE BEST!!!

[blueturk]

This move totally confuses me.I thought he was just courting the Hispanic vote when he tried to pull this shit before the election.Maybe some of his "base" need cheap maids.

[conmee]

Denny,

Keep attachments to no larger than 800x600 for the benefit of the majority of soldiers that still use Commodore 64's and TI-99/4a Home Computers (or the occasional Apple IIe and IBM PC XT) with lower resolution... lmao... :)

SIEG OIL!!!
SIEG ICON!!!
BCE UBER ALLES!!!

Icon.

[Denny]

Originally posted by conmee
Denny,

Keep attachments to no larger than 800x600 for the benefit of the majority of soldiers that still use Commodore 64's and TI-99/4a Home Computers (or the occasional Apple IIe and IBM PC XT) with lower resolution... lmao... :)

SIEG OIL!!!
SIEG ICON!!!
BCE UBER ALLES!!!

Icon.

Sorry about that, man. I am really fucking pissed off with FORD's bullshit of Editing/Deleting and Moving and CLosing threads.....

Please do something about his BULLSHIT.

[knuckleboner]

so wait a minute...you're surprised and upset that bush followed through on one of his proposals? um...dude, when he asked for your vote, he didn't say, "i promise to change my policies to exactly fit your personal beliefs."

disagree with the policy; but give the man credit for at least sticking to his guns.

[Nickdfresh]

I love trickle down economics...and cheap labor!

[conmee]

Originally posted by Denny
Sorry about that, man. I am really fucking pissed off with FORD's bullshit of Editing/Deleting and Moving and CLosing threads.....

Please do something about his BULLSHIT.

Denny, will do. Just for the record, I've only edited your pics in this and the Liberal Elite (or whatever it's called) threads, simple because of the viewability issue, not content. If you want to post a scaled down pic of your mothership, that's cool, as it does look cool, and my 1600x1200 screen has no problem with it. But as you know, most RothArmy soldiers are from low-income families and they can't afford the latest in computer technology... lmao ;)

I've discussed this with FORD, and I'll keep an eye on the situation, but in general, FORD means well and does a good job. I've asked him to be move communicative and clear if it affects a thread or post (be it edit/delete, etc) and to explain his decision. If the webbies agree with his assessment, we'll back him 100%. If we think there is a grey area or that someone was even slightly unfairly edited/deleted, we'll correct the situation.

Not to start the whole argument/discussion up again about free speech and all that, but my thinking about this forum is that BOTH free speech AND a place for both liberal/conservatives/independents to argue, call each other names, have cogent discussions is TIE for FIRST on the list here. And we'll do our best to balance the needs of free speech with the needs of everyone to have their voices heard, and to enjoy themselves in this forum.

I'll get off the soapbox now. lol

SIEG OIL!!!
SIEG ICON!!!
BCE UBER ALLES!!!

Icon.

:monkey:

[Warham]

Why does this surprise anyone? He's been saying he's wanted to do this for years.

[DaveIsKing]

He's an asshole. And illegal immigration is a plague.

[Warham]

Yeah, and it ain't gonna stop anytime soon. Even if we put up a 20 foot high, 10 foot thick concrete and steel wall all along the border, they will find other ways, even if it means swimming here from Cuba in shark infested waters. There's no way to stop them. Bush is just trying to find a way to meet them halfway.

[DaveIsKing]

I'd meet them halfway...with a letter addressed to their "President" and a militarized border. There ain't no excuse. If Canada can jack us around for hours, we can stop this illegal influx.

Warham, I am surprised at you. You speak as a Defeatist. "Well, they are gonna do it anyway, just give up and reward them for breaking the law."

No, BUSH wants to get TOUGH on terrorists, yeah, well you ain't gonna stop terrorism either. But, you can put a hole in the bucket. Well, the same way with ILLEGAL FUCKING IMMIGRATION.

Here's an idea...take troops out of the fucking Middle East and put them on the border. At least they would be at home and no one would be blowing them up.

I don't go with the Spineless attitude that we just roll out the fucking red carpet. Hell no!

[Warham]

I'm only defeatist today, Dave. It's a slight depression that will pass by tomorrow.

:)

[DaveIsKing]

Originally posted by Warham
I'm only defeatist today, Dave. It's a slight depression that will pass by tomorrow.

:)


LOL....I knew it! :D

[FORD]

Originally posted by DaveIsKing
He's an asshole. And illegal immigration is a plague.

Technically, that's incorrect.

George Bush SR was an asshole. Junior is the Idiot Son of an Asshole (http://www.ericblumrich.com/idiot.html)

[DLR'sCock]

Kool, so maybe the whole country will just come on in!!!!!


And if Bush is lucky, he'll get some ole terrrrroreeesstts too!!!!

[Vivian Campbell]

We have to ask ourselves this question: Do we really want some greedy rich guys, who don't want to pay a normal salary, to destroy the wage structure of our country? First its picking veggies and working as a bus boy. Next they’re stealing waiter/waitress jobs.

I hear constantly from Bush supporters, “Oh well, these Americans need to realize we live in an "info" economy now. They should get a better job.” Well, we all have to start SOMEWHERE don't we? It's funny, the libertarian right, in a bid to "evolve" the economy are giving low wage jobs to Mexicans and EXPORTING white collar jobs to other countries. What's going on here? They're getting richer while we are denied the jobs necessary to climb the ladder that will eventually make other people rich. A word for those who support outsourcing and importing Mexicans: One day, they’ll steal your job too.

[DaveIsKing]

I am a Libertarian, but I'd say more of a Paleo-Lib or Libertarian Nationalist (and no, not in the Pat Buchanan mold). I am for Libertarianism across the board, but the two issues I back away from that philosophy is with COERCIVE MONOPOLIES and ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.

I am a Teddy Roosevelt - Ayn Rand Libertarian. I believe in America, and the free market, but Big Business swallows a true free market and Big Government restricts our freedom.

Kind of in a fucking bind here, eh?

[Switch84]

Originally posted by Vivian Campbell
We have to ask ourselves this question: Do we really want some greedy rich guys, who don't want to pay a normal salary, to destroy the wage structure of our country? First its picking veggies and working as a bus boy. Next they’re stealing waiter/waitress jobs.

I hear constantly from Bush supporters, “Oh well, these Americans need to realize we live in an "info" economy now. They should get a better job.” Well, we all have to start SOMEWHERE don't we? It's funny, the libertarian right, in a bid to "evolve" the economy are giving low wage jobs to Mexicans and EXPORTING white collar jobs to other countries. What's going on here? They're getting richer while we are denied the jobs necessary to climb the ladder that will eventually make other people rich. A word for those who support outsourcing and importing Mexicans: One day, they’ll steal your job too.

:( The infestation has already begun! Here in the Metro Atlanta area, there's hordes and hordes of border jumpers standing on street corners waiting for landscapers and construction workers to pick them up for work that an American would be paid a decent wage to do. Even service jobs are snatched up: fast food, janitorial, etc. The excuse I hear is "Americans wouldn't want to do that type of work, anyway." Bullshit! Mickey D's was one of my first teenaged jobs. Are our kids gonna have that experience? I go into a McDonalds now and its mostly immigrants (illegal) and they can barely speak English. When I call any company or a city/state government agency, it's 'Press 1 for English; press 2 for Spanish'.

Where do we start? We start by putting our foot down on the illegal border crossing and deporting these mofos!

[Cathedral]

Again, it's supply and demand.
If an employer can hire illegals without consequence, then they will keep coming, and they will keep being hired at lower wages than Americans.

A Mexican has to get himself two degrees if he wants to steal my job.

I look at it like this, If a foreigner will get on a program that allowes them to work here and pay taxes like all American Citizens, whats wrong with that?
The damn reason they try to dodge immigration is because if they apply and get turned down, they are automatically deported and have to start over again getting back over here.

The problem isn't just the immigrants. it's the companies that hire cheap labor that enable this mess to grow into the situation it has.

Shut down those who hire them, and that will be a huge step in the right direction.

[Switch84]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cathedral
[B]
A Mexican has to get himself two degrees if he wants to steal my job.

:) Good for you! And the American who doesn't have a wall full of decorations from various colleges or trade schools? Fuck them?

Everybody can't be, or want to be, desk jockeys.

Penalize the businesses that utilize illegals? That's a start. Maybe that'll cut down the demand for cheap labor, maybe it won't. Co-signing it or turning a blind eye on it won't help, either.


In the meantime, can I call the police without going through a Spanish intro? Thank you.

[DaveIsKing]

I agree with you Switch84. Wholeheartedly.

This BILINGUAL SHIT has got to end. Do they not come HERE?

Whether people like it or not, America's real "official" language is English. Nothing wrong with that. So I think we should make it official and train all non-English speakers in proper English.

I am sick of bending over backwards for others, goddamnit. Especially those who don't give a flying fuck. You come here, you respect our goddamn laws and learn our fucking language, assholes. Or go back to the shithole you came from.

Fuckin' aye? Motherfuckers?

[Vivian Campbell]

Originally posted by Cathedral


A Mexican has to get himself two degrees if he wants to steal my job.


Oh don't worry, I'm sure there's someone in India qualified enough to fill your shoes when they out source your's and every other white collar job to the Sub-Continent. Thats unless you are a college prof or something of that nature.

The funny thing is, the GOP is digging their own graves on this amnesty issue. Just because the Hispanics voted for Bush this year doesn’t mean they will stop voting for people who are willing to INCREASE welfare programs. I thought the purpose of conservatism was to prevent the further growth or government and possibly even shrink it. That’s not going to happen when you have a Hispanic MAJORITY in this country who don’t share the values ensconced in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. Sure, the Dems lost big this year, but all they have to do is bide their time. Soon enough we’ll have a European socialism looming over lady liberty.

Remember, Mexico and South America are Hell-holes for a reason. Hispanics have a history of installing corrupt governments and abusing and eventually destroying the natural resources of the land.

[fanofdave]

I see there's lots of fine "whine" being served in
this establishment tonight....

[Switch84]

Originally posted by Vivian Campbell
Oh don't worry, I'm sure there's someone in India qualified enough to fill your shoes when they out source your's and every other white collar job to the Sub-Continent. Thats unless you are a college prof or something of that nature.

The funny thing is, the GOP is digging their own graves on this amnesty issue. Just because the Hispanics voted for Bush this year doesn’t mean they will stop voting for people who are willing to INCREASE welfare programs. I thought the purpose of conservatism was to prevent the further growth or government and possibly even shrink it. That’s not going to happen when you have a Hispanic MAJORITY in this country who don’t share the values ensconced in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. Sure, the Dems lost big this year, but all they have to do is bide their time. Soon enough we’ll have a European socialism looming over lady liberty.

Remember, Mexico and South America are Hell-holes for a reason. Hispanics have a history of installing corrupt governments and abusing and eventually destroying the natural resources of the land.


Damn, Grrl! You hit the nail on the head with this killer post! 5 points for ya!

Why is it that the illegal Hispanics/Latinos want to sneak in here, having babies at three times the rate of whites and blacks? Because they've fucked up and used up the resources in their own lands. It's almost like that scene from the first "Matrix" movie when Mr. Smith compared humans to a virus: using up all the resources of one area, then spreading out to suck up the resources of a new area, etc, etc.

Do we really want our nation to turn into a Banana Republic? Or another Third World shithole?

This amnesty amendment will not pass. It'll be the death of America as we know it. Dubya's going to get laughed at on this one. As he should.

[ELVIS]

I don't think Vivian is a grrl...

[Switch84]

Originally posted by ELVIS
I don't think Vivian is a grrl...

:o :o :o Ooops, I did it AGAIN!

[Vivian Campbell]

Thanks for the stars Switch.


Originally posted by ELVIS
I don't think Vivian is a grrl...

Dont worry, the surgery will solve that....

[wraytw]

Why does this surprise anyone? This isn't "news," as it's been in the works for a while now... and publicly. That doesn't change the fact that it's a horrible policy, though. :)

[DaveIsKing]

It was brought up once. The Congress damned it to hell. Bushwhacked didn't bring it up again...UNTIL NOW.

Conveniently, AFTER THE ELECTION.

He is a backstabber to his constituency. He is a self-serving asshole who cares more about Iraqis and their goddamn pissy little nation than his own.

Gonzales? Attorney General? Fuck off Bush. I am sorry I ever voted for this fuckwit.

I apologize to my countrymen...for what it is worth NOW.

[FORD]

I accept your apology. But don't expect the Busheep to do the same.

[DaveIsKing]

Damn, I wasted a vote. I could've voted for Dave.

[McCarrens]

Ilike to taste the whine of crying liberals.

Their sorrow is sweet...

[JCOOK]

Originally posted by DaveIsKing
:mad2:

I voted for him. And he pulls this fucking shit AGAIN...why didn't he do it BEFORE the election???

Because he knew the majority of Americans and LEGAL immigrants oppose it.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20041110-123424-5467r.htm

Fuck you, you goddamn asshole. I can only hope he angers the Republicans enought to shove this bullshit back down his throat.

I am with you Dave Is King this is the one area where both sides DON'T GET IT. This shit has got to stop California cannot take anymore
Ca. spends $5 BILLION ayear on services for ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS people are leaving in droves...My parents are moving to Ohio this Sunday.CLOSE DOWN THE FUCKING BORDERS THEY WILLNEVER VOTE REPUBLICAN!

[DaveIsKing]

Originally posted by JCOOK
I am with you Dave Is King this is the one area where both sides DON'T GET IT. This shit has got to stop California cannot take anymore
Ca. spends $5 BILLION ayear on services for ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS people are leaving in droves...My parents are moving to Ohio this Sunday.CLOSE DOWN THE FUCKING BORDERS THEY WILLNEVER VOTE REPUBLICAN!

Well, apparently some live under the delusion that the world is full of shiny, happy people and that no terrorists could possibly come from Mexico! Well, think again! And besides it ain't just terrorists, but the illegal immigration problem itself burdens our schools, local housing, welfare, unemployment, labor, and can even affect distribution of House seats in Congress. It is an epidemic that causes unwarranted problems for citizens and legal immigrants alike and I can't believe anyone could see it as a benefit unless they are so blinded by utopian dreams or bullshit lies that they can see anything but smily faces.

Bush is catering to the Latinos and it is obvious. I can't stand SPECIAL INTERESTS and LOBBYISTS. So, Bush's catering to one group which happens to be the majority of the illegal alien problem and turns around and nominates Speedy Gonzales as the Attorney General.

It is amazing how admiration can turn to vile disdain in just a matter of days.

[FORD]

Originally posted by McCarrens
Ilike to taste the whine of crying liberals.

Their sorrow is sweet...

Is your new definition of "liberal" anyone who's not a Busheep?

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by fanofdave
I see there's lots of fine "whine" being served in
this establishment tonight....

So I guess from now on whenever anyone expresses a sentiment that you don't agree with it is whining huh? Fuck you.

On to the subject at hand: I thinkl that we will never stop the flow of illegals until we get to the source of the problem: the economic issues in Mexico. So yes, it will be our responsibility to help correct those issues. We would profit enormously from a happy, stable neighbor.

I don't see any steps in this direction on gw's agenda, except helping the flow of manufacturing from us to them.

[aesop]

Quote: ...except helping the flow of manufacturing from us to them.

Yep you can thank William Jefferson for that brain cramp. NAFTA is his legacy.

[DaveIsKing]

Well, I pride myself in one thing. I can admit it if I am wrong. Because, I am the type of person that sees Facts are Facts and I judge by reason. If you prove me wrong, I have no other alternative but to accept the truth or look like an idiot. And I would hope that the majority of my fellow right-wingers would agree with me on this.

I'll take humble honesty over prideful idiocy anyday.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by DaveIsKing
Well, I pride myself in one thing. I can admit it if I am wrong. Because, I am the type of person that sees Facts are Facts and I judge by reason. If you prove me wrong, I have no other alternative but to accept the truth or look like an idiot. And I would hope that the majority of my fellow right-wingers would agree with me on this.

I'll take humble honesty over prideful idiocy anyday.


I will state that DaveisKing is a reasonable man. He will listen to what people have to say.

[Switch84]

Originally posted by aesop
Quote: ...except helping the flow of manufacturing from us to them.

Yep you can thank William Jefferson for that brain cramp. NAFTA is his legacy.

:D That's RIGHT, aesop! NAFTA was the brain child of Slick Willie. Dubya's misguided in thinking he'll be easing the flood of illegals if they're given a worker permit. He's misguided in thinking those border jumpers would stay in their shithole country if they could work here without threat of getting kicked out. If they can work here, they'll want to LIVE HERE, too! I'm not buying that 'Mexicans just wanna commute' bullshit!

I don't regret voting for Dubya, DaveIsKing; I regret that he's buying into that Latino pimping of our nation. Those motherfuckers don't have this country's best interests at heart, and Dubya needs to realize that.

This WILL NOT PASS! Congress is already grumbling about it as a 'pig dressed up in lipstick is still a pig.'

[Steve Savicki]

Originally posted by DaveIsKing
:mad2:

I voted for him. And he pulls this fucking shit AGAIN...why didn't he do it BEFORE the election???

Because he knew the majority of Americans and LEGAL immigrants oppose it.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20041110-123424-5467r.htm

Fuck you, you goddamn asshole. I can only hope he angers the Republicans enought to shove this bullshit back down his throat.

You can go to

http://impeachbush.org/

[DLR'sCock]

Originally posted by Vivian Campbell
We have to ask ourselves this question: Do we really want some greedy rich guys, who don't want to pay a normal salary, to destroy the wage structure of our country? First its picking veggies and working as a bus boy. Next they’re stealing waiter/waitress jobs.

I hear constantly from Bush supporters, “Oh well, these Americans need to realize we live in an "info" economy now. They should get a better job.” Well, we all have to start SOMEWHERE don't we? It's funny, the libertarian right, in a bid to "evolve" the economy are giving low wage jobs to Mexicans and EXPORTING white collar jobs to other countries. What's going on here? They're getting richer while we are denied the jobs necessary to climb the ladder that will eventually make other people rich. A word for those who support outsourcing and importing Mexicans: One day, they’ll steal your job too.



Oh my, you need to stop using logic...


besides only the greedy rich are the ones that truly count....

[FORD]

Originally posted by aesop
Quote: ...except helping the flow of manufacturing from us to them.

Yep you can thank William Jefferson for that brain cramp. NAFTA is his legacy.

Not exactly..... NAFTA was conceived, promoted, and signed by George Bush Sr in 1992. The only thing Clinton did was push it through Congress, which was done as a common courtesy that Presidents usually do for their predecessors.

Personally, I hate NAFTA and would have preferred Clinton axe the project, but it was already a signed document, so it would have been nearly impossible for him to do so without accusations of partisanship.

[DLR'sCock]

NAFTA and GATT, not good for your average US citizen who would want a decent paying job...

[DaveIsKing]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
I will state that DaveisKing is a reasonable man. He will listen to what people have to say.

Thank you, OD.

I do place my vote with REASON and DISCUSSION, even though it does get heated at times.

[Switch84]

Originally posted by DaveIsKing
Thank you, OD.

I do place my vote with REASON and DISCUSSION, even though it does get heated at times.


:D ;) You think you're feeling the heat, try being in MY shoes at the moment! I'm getting radical libbie shit from both sites (Army and DDLR!)

I'm ON FIRE, Baby!

BUWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!

[DaveIsKing]

Originally posted by Switch84
:D ;) You think you're feeling the heat, try being in MY shoes at the moment! I'm getting radical libbie shit from both sites (Army and DDLR!)

I'm ON FIRE, Baby!

BUWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!


I love the warfare. Keep it smoking, Switch! :D

[Switch84]

Originally posted by DaveIsKing
I love the warfare. Keep it smoking, Switch! :D


;) :D LOL! Stupid sumbitches! The fact that they don't know when they're being played is what makes me laugh the hardest!

You throw those simple motherfuckers a bone and they jump on it like a Porterhouse steak.


Hungry bitches!

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Vivian Campbell
Thanks for the stars Switch.



Dont worry, the surgery will solve that....


:eek: :eek: :eek:

[Vivian Campbell]

I just want to add that rampant immigration and free trade are 2008 suicide for the GOP.

This might be the last time the GOP carries Ohio. With continuing job losses in manufacturing, and the DNC’s supposed shift to protectionism, Ohio will surely become a blue State in 2008. In 2008, the GOP will actually have to fight to keep North Carolina with the erosion of the textile industry there. I’m sure North Carolinians will think twice about voting GOP once their $15 dollar an hr job is replaced with a minimum wage salary with few, if any, benefits. What about Texas? The influx of socialist third worlders will sooner or later make that electorally powerful State blue as well. I would hate to be a GOP party running against a DNC with New York, California, AND Texas in their column. The GOP, for the viability of their party and the future of our country, MUST adopt Pat Buchanan’s stance on trade and immigration. Look at what the Neo-Conservative movement is willing to risk in order to appease a few greedy individuals:

1. Millions of White Collar and Blue Collar people continually in danger of having their jobs stolen by foreigners within and without of this country.

2. High unemployment

3. Wages falling while the price of living soars.

4. Many Red States turning blue thanks to a native population destitute from the free trade debacle, and thanks to an influx of third world socialists.

5. The Europeanization of America. That’s right, get ready for National Healthcare, High taxes, over regulation, an impotent military, and the U.N. as our overlords.

Sounds great! More Free Trade!

[Dr. Love]

We in Texas need the mexicans to work at our restaurants so that our food is worth a damn.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Vivian Campbell
Look at what the Neo-Conservative movement is willing to risk in order to appease a few greedy individuals:

1. Millions of White Collar and Blue Collar people continually in danger of having their jobs stolen by foreigners within and without of this country.

2. High unemployment

3. Wages falling while the price of living soars.

4. Many Red States turning blue thanks to a native population destitute from the free trade debacle, and thanks to an influx of third world socialists.

5. The Europeanization of America. That’s right, get ready for National Healthcare, High taxes, over regulation, an impotent military, and the U.N. as our overlords.

I think some of those issues are ends of themselves.

[Big Troubles]

For once in the Front Line Id like to read that you guys are talking about a different kind of "BUSH". :D At least the other kind of bush that I like, serves a fucking purpose!

[ODShowtime]

that's the dichotomy of my life. On one hand, I truly revile bush. On the other hand, I sure do love me some bush...

[Big Troubles]

LOL Its tough decisions, like this, in these tough times that's makes me proud to be ruled by a Queen! ;) Now thats pussy control!

[ODShowtime]

yikes

[Big Troubles]

Oooooooh.....Canada! :D I like em mature but Damn, she must be 90 now.

[ODShowtime]

I'd probably bang the bush girls. A nice hot bush sandwich would be nice :hitch:

[Big Troubles]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
I'd probably bang the bush girls. A nice hot bush sandwich would be nice :hitch:

LOL!

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
I'd probably bang the bush girls. A nice hot bush sandwich would be nice :hitch:

I do find little Barbera to be fetching:

[ODShowtime]

yeah... I'd hit it