The Dark Tower Series

[bueno bob]

During my couple days off from here due to the flu, I had a chance to pick up part 7 and read all the way through it...after 20 years of reading this series, it finally comes to it's conclusion.

OH MY GOD!!!!

NEVER in a million years did I see it ending like THAT!!

No spoilers contained for anybody who isn't reading it or hasn't gotten through part 7 yet.

If you haven't read the Dark Tower series, you REALLY, REALLY need to. Absolutely BRILLIANT, ranks right alongside of Dune and Lord of the Rings for massive epics...even better for characterization, if you ask me!

Who's with me??

[SoCalChelle]

I've been a Stephen King fan since the beginning and have read everything he's ever written. I can't believe Roland's journey is finally over. Well, sorta ;)

[lms2]

I also am a Stephen King Fan... Hell of a writer, and you are right the dark tower series is a good read, but you know, that series did not stick with me the way his other books have.

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by SoCalChelle
I've been a Stephen King fan since the beginning and have read everything he's ever written. I can't believe Roland's journey is finally over. Well, sorta ;)

Honestly, I don't think the "change" Roland had at the end (?) of his quest is going to make any real difference; mayhap it might, but ka is a funny bitch, ain't she?

I take the fact that he's dreamt about blowing his horn at the base of the tower as evidence that, well, maybe he already HAS...for whatever good it's done him.

Mayhap I'm just a sick bastard and like the idea of his suffering to continue, who can say...lmao...

Still, maybe someday there'll be a door and behind that door will be a clearing with a blonde girl who once sat at a window - THAT would be cool. I loved Susan and thought Wizard and Glass was one of the best installments of the series, if not THE best.

[SoCalChelle]

The ending of DT7 blew me away. Ka really IS a wheel, eh? ;)

What did you think of that 9/11 reference he threw in there? Do you think he's saying Black Thirteen drew the planes to the towers?

Also, the house by the lake is called Cara Laughs. There was a house in Bag of Bones called Sara Laughs. Whaddya think.....same house on different levels of the tower?

I love how he brought it all together....it seems almost as though everything he's ever written was a part of Roland's journey. Almost like he planned it that way all along.

[POJO_Risin]

Just about everything WAS about the journey...I've read every one of his books up to the past 4...I'm in the middle of Black House right now...with Straub...and am loving it...and obviously...Talisman and Black House are directly related...and about 15 or so other books...including the stand...and a couple of other of the big ones...

I love going back and finding the shit...

but yeah...in an interview way back...he said most of his books start off as installments of the series...he knew the ending...and feared that the end of the Dark Tower would be the end of his creativity...that his journed would be over...

He also calls it his "Lord of the Rings..." for what it's worth...

I still have 5, 6 and 7 to go...and will start up with 1 after I finish Black House...

I'll let you know as I go through...I may reread Talisman as well...just to fill that story up...

[WACF]

I got half way through and then forgot about them....

I will have to pick up the remaining ones.
When I was reading them as they came out I could not put them down.

[WACF]

Look at that...I am a Crazy Ass Mofo....

[diamondsgirl]

Originally posted by WACF
I got half way through and then forgot about them....

I will have to pick up the remaining ones.
When I was reading them as they came out I could not put them down.

don't forget your wrist supports for reading these...damn those are some BIG ASS books. Seriously heavy.

I need some wrist exercises to strengthen my wrists for that shit..

oh Maaaax!? ;)

[McCarrens]

Those are some of the greatest book sever written. I think there is a hole in my life now, what with Roland and his ka-tet's literary journey over.

I cried after reading the last page of the last book.

That's how long I've been with them, and now that it is over, I feel like I've passed on through one phase of my life into another.

I know that sounds a little (or a lot) weird but I've been reading the Dark Tower books for years and years and somehow I don't think Harry Potter can fill the gap that lives on my night stand now I don't have a story about the Gunslinger and the Man in Black there.

[SoCalChelle]

That's exactly how I feel, McCarrens.

[bueno bob]

I noticed the Sara Laughs/Cara Laughs references as well...King recently did an interview and said there were something like 28 other references that NOBODY has discovered yet...worth the re-read :)

Well, if the black 13 didn't call the planes to it, then al-Queda did the U.S. a favor on 9/11 if that was the case...lmao...

[SoCalChelle]

28 references to other books?

[bueno bob]

Yup, somewhere in the vicinity of 28 references to other books; he said there's also a LOT in the way of plays on "19" that hasn't been discovered either.

My biggest complaints? Nobody will ever know what happened with Rhea (the Coos witch), that belt from his Mother that somehow saved Roland's life, and I'm willing to bet that there's a LOT about Jericho Hill that wasn't told (why they were there, what the fuck happened, et al).

On top of that, we never met Aileen, don't know anything about the girl he left in Kings Town, his interactions with Thomas and the other guy from Eyes of the Dragon...nor whatever happened with the whole "fall of Gilead" bit other than, well, it fell!

Devil's in the details, and I think there's still another DT novel yet that could cover ALL that shit! But I ain't holding my breath.

Good news though, 'cuz there's talk of making the ENTIRE SERIES into an HBO miniseries (animated - who in the CHRIST could actually carry those roles effectively?!?).

I REALLY hope that happens!

[WACF]

That would be cool!!!!

Went to a used bookstore last night....could not find a single Dark Towers book....

I have got to pick up those last few!

[SoCalChelle]

Originally posted by bueno bob
Good news though, 'cuz there's talk of making the ENTIRE SERIES into an HBO miniseries (animated - who in the CHRIST could actually carry those roles effectively?!?).


Wow, animated?! Cool. I've actually given some thought to how I'd cast a Dark Tower movie. I think Vigo Mortenson could do a decent job as Roland. Susannah would have to be Halle Berry. Brad Pitt could be Eddie. I don't know about Jake though, that'd be a tough one.

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by SoCalChelle
I don't know about Jake though, that'd be a tough one.

I thought either Jake Lloyd (Anakin Skywalker in EP:1) or the kid from The Sixth Sense, maybe...

[SoCalChelle]

Yeah, I thought of the Sixth Sense kid too, but he doesn't seem very tough. The Star Wars kid might work though.

[fe_lung]

Only one person could be Roland (for me anyway) and that's Lance Henrickson. I've always seen Alfre Woodard as Susannah and Christopher from Sopranos as Eddie.


I can't believe it's finally done either, with the exception of the third Talisman book thats forthcoming....

[SoCalChelle]

Actually, the perfect Roland is Clint Eastwood. But he's too old now.

[bueno bob]

Agreed, since "Roland" was kinda based on Clint Eastwood anyway, to a great deal...I hadn't heard anything about a 3rd Talisman novel though...that should be interesting :)

[fe_lung]

According to Brain at Stephen King News http://www.BreakingKingNews.com (who's second only to Steve himself when it comes to reliability) both King and Straub have confirmed plans for a third Talisman, it's just a question of scheduling.


I kinda thought Clint would be better as Stephen Deschain, Rolands father.....

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by fe_lung
I kinda thought Clint would be better as Stephen Deschain, Rolands father.....

Why not? If they were to film it today, makeup could remove a few years from Clint and he'd still be a good fit.

But as to Roland...God...if Bruce Campbell was taller and not such a silly sight, he might actually have been a good fit, but...I can't see Bruce in anything without having a burst of giggles...Billy Zane, maybe?

[FilthyLilMouth]

I have read book 1,2,3. Now I'm reading The Eyes of The Dragon.

[Alias]

I heard they were supposed to be making a movie out of Eyes of the Dragon

[TLR]

Ok, hold a sec here. I've read EVERY book King EVER wrote (needless to say, he's my favorite author by a mile and a half), but I never touched this series. I guess I have missed the boat.

Something about this series just didn't click with me...

[SoCalChelle]

If you're a King fan, the Dark Tower series is required reading. Trust me, you'll love it. :)

[TLR]

Ok, Chelle. I'm holding YOU responsible for my reaction...

:-)

[SoCalChelle]

:)

[POJO_Risin]

I'm restarting with book 4...Wizard and Glass...

I'll run through the play by play...

I love it...in the Captain Trips alter universe right now...

good ole' RF...

you just have to figure out which RF...

[POJO_Risin]

As for Casting...

Clint is just to old at this point...

He's my boy and all...but dude's looking every bit of his almost 75 years right now...

What about Dylan McDermott????

He may be the perfect age...saw him in a Western...can remember what...but...he could do the part...

as Eddie...hmmm...someone who used to be strung out...but is on his feet again...hmmmm...perhaps Rob Lowe????...a pretty boy...but could pull it off...or what about Charlie Sheen?

Jake...I can't think of anyone off the top of my list...I could see the kid that played Anakin...

but there's someone on the edge...

as for Susannah...I like the Alfre Woodward...but there was another chick...shit if I can remember her name...was in Soul Food though...

I like the thought of the dude from the Sopranos as Eddie actually...

and for Eddie

[SoCalChelle]

Originally posted by POJO_Risin
as Eddie...hmmm...someone who used to be strung out...but is on his feet again...hmmmm...perhaps Rob Lowe????...a pretty boy...but could pull it off...or what about Charlie Sheen?



I was thinking along the same lines....how about Robert Downey Jr. ?

[fe_lung]

Originally posted by bueno bob
I noticed the Sara Laughs/Cara Laughs references as well...King recently did an interview and said there were something like 28 other references that NOBODY has discovered yet...worth the re-read :)

Well, if the black 13 didn't call the planes to it, then al-Queda did the U.S. a favor on 9/11 if that was the case...lmao...

I noticed a Carrie reference in there (plug it up!), and the jesters at castle discordia repeat the opening quote of On Writing.... There were some others in book seven but I can't recall them right now.

[fe_lung]

I just finished 7 last night. Heartbreaking to be done, actually. I kind of liked the end, though. Anything else would have been a bit of a let down. Still, leave it to Steve to make a grown man cry!!!

[bueno bob]

Well, the thing is, there's just a LOT of shit that never got answered!

1 - Rolands belt his mother made him saved his life; how?

2 - What happened with Rhea when they ran into her again?

3 - What ever became of Thomas Whitman, Desmond Whatshisfuck, and all the other gunslingers? Some of them cast off, some committed suicide, and at least one betrayed them somehow...there's at least a whole book in those stories...there were 13 that left with Roland, according to "Drawing of the Three", but I don't know if that number is in conflict with what "Wizard and Glass" says at the end of it or not...I think it might be, but I'll know more after I re-read that far...

4 - What exactly happened at Jericho Hill?

5 - What "mistake" led to Alain's death?

6 - What girl did Roland leave in King's Town? Aileen?

7 - Speaking of which, what was Aileen's story?

8 - Roland remembered running into Thomas and Dennis from "Eyes of the Dragon" while they were after Flagg. There's a story there...

9 - What did he do for the first 20 odd years of his quest? I'm guessing it just wasn't "wander around the Mohaine Desert"...

10 - How exactly did Gilead fall?

11 - What happened when they confronted John Farson?

12 - Who poisoned Cort?

13 - Who stabbed Roland's father?

14 - What's REALLY behind the door at the top of the Tower?

15 - Every time Roland redoes his quest, is it the same journey or do the details change?

16 - According to "The Gunslinger" rewrite, Walter insinuates that he's AWARE of how Roland continually redoes his quest; if the details DON'T waver, then why does Walter continually go to his death at the hands of Mordred?

17 - The whole Flagg/Marten/Walter "doctrine of the trinity" is still kinda gaping...I'm not sure the idea that they're all one and the same really holds water, but I'll know more after I get through the re-read (I'm halfway through "The Drawing of the Three" now, and already it's kinda loopy)...

18 - What happened that got Sheemie off of the original Ka-Tet and out to Blue Heaven?

That's at least 18 questions that I can think of off the top of my head that have no answers to them.

Mr. King? You'd better get your fuckin' pen working, sirrah! You ain't done yet!! SAY SORRY!!!

[SoCalChelle]

15 - Every time Roland redoes his quest, is it the same journey or do the details change?

The details change....note that he has the horn at the end of DT7. I don't know what possible difference that could make though.

Do you have the concordance? I'm thinking it might answer some of your questions. I'll have to dig it out when I get home...

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by SoCalChelle
15 - Every time Roland redoes his quest, is it the same journey or do the details change?

The details change....note that he has the horn at the end of DT7. I don't know what possible difference that could make though.

I was thinking about that...I just wondered if that's the FIRST detail change he's ever had or if something changes EVERY time...agreed, I can't see that having the Horn of Eld at his side would make any difference at all...I think it's more of a case that The Tower just has him running in circles because, well, he's damned and shut out of the Tower forever...

Do you have the concordance? I'm thinking it might answer some of your questions. I'll have to dig it out when I get home...

I don't! Been dying to read it, though!

]

[SoCalChelle]

Oh you should definitely get it....it's got maps and everything. The ultimate King-geek reference book. LOL ;)

I'm hoping they come out with a 2nd volume to cover the last 3 books.

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by SoCalChelle
Oh you should definitely get it....it's got maps and everything. The ultimate King-geek reference book. LOL ;)

I'm hoping they come out with a 2nd volume to cover the last 3 books.

It'd surprise me if they didn't.

A thought occured to me the other day after I finished up Drawing of the Three...

What if Roland actually died out there in the Mohaine Desert ages and ages and ages back? Maybe he died not knowing it, went to Hell and his eternal punishment is to continually seek the Tower, always find it alone (watching Eddie, Jake, Susannah and/or Oy die in different ways along the way continually), only to have to go back and relive it in a different way as his eternal damnation? Details vary from trip to trip (sometimes Eddie dies in Lud, Susannah dies in Blue Heaven, Oy gets killed by Andy "Many Other Functions", the horn comes and goes, etc etc...), but he always gets to the door at the top alone and always has to start over for the first time again.

Maybe Roland being damned is a very litteral thing.

A thought, anyway.

[fe_lung]

4 - What exactly happened at Jericho Hill?

It was the last stand for the gunslingers where all but Roland were wiped out.

5 - What "mistake" led to Alain's death?

He came to Jericho Hill at night causing Roland and Cuthbert to mistake him for an enemy and shoot him.


6 - What girl did Roland leave in King's Town? Aileen?

7 - Speaking of which, what was Aileen's story?

Didn't Aileen become Susan in the re-worked Gunslinger?


9 - What did he do for the first 20 odd years of his quest? I'm guessing it just wasn't "wander around the Mohaine Desert"...


Cast about, mostly. The Little Sisters of Euloria is one "pre-tower" adventure.

10 - How exactly did Gilead fall?

One would assume that after the Gunslingers were wiped out, it was pretty much open season.



11 - What happened when they confronted John Farson?


Can't recall, wasn't Farson actually Walter?


18 - What happened that got Sheemie off of the original Ka-Tet and out to Blue Heaven?


He was never really a true part of their Ka-Tet. He did follow Roland back to Gilead but it seems that Roland lost sight of him after the kingdom collapsed.

[fe_lung]

Originally posted by SoCalChelle
Oh you should definitely get it....it's got maps and everything. The ultimate King-geek reference book. LOL ;)

I'm hoping they come out with a 2nd volume to cover the last 3 books.

It should be out by now. I thought it was published concurrent to DT VII

[fe_lung]

Maybe Roland being damned is a very literal thing.

A thought, anyway. [/B][/QUOTE]


Oooh, and a very good one. Go to the head of the class!

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by fe_lung
4 - What exactly happened at Jericho Hill?

It was the last stand for the gunslingers where all but Roland were wiped out.

5 - What "mistake" led to Alain's death?

He came to Jericho Hill at night causing Roland and Cuthbert to mistake him for an enemy and shoot him.


6 - What girl did Roland leave in King's Town? Aileen?

7 - Speaking of which, what was Aileen's story?

Didn't Aileen become Susan in the re-worked Gunslinger?


9 - What did he do for the first 20 odd years of his quest? I'm guessing it just wasn't "wander around the Mohaine Desert"...


Cast about, mostly. The Little Sisters of Euloria is one "pre-tower" adventure.

10 - How exactly did Gilead fall?

One would assume that after the Gunslingers were wiped out, it was pretty much open season.



11 - What happened when they confronted John Farson?


Can't recall, wasn't Farson actually Walter?


18 - What happened that got Sheemie off of the original Ka-Tet and out to Blue Heaven?


He was never really a true part of their Ka-Tet. He did follow Roland back to Gilead but it seems that Roland lost sight of him after the kingdom collapsed.

Good answers, all, and one's that I'd basically surmised, but in asking my actual point was to bring up that there are REAL 400+ pageturners in all of these things...I like the details :)

[bueno bob]

OK, my casting call for The Dark Tower...all 234 hours of the movie...

Roland: It's a toss...but I think Val Kilmer could pull of Roland's dark
nature really well...?
Eddie: Jason Lee
Jake: Jake Lloyd
Susannah: Halle Berry
Oy: CGI
Walter/Flagg: Sam Neill
The Crimson King: Max Von Sydow (voice); CGI (graphics)
Cort: Brian Blessed
Stephen Deschain: Kyle MacLachlan
Gabrielle Deschain: Carrie Ann Moss
Susan Delgado: Sarah Polley
Pat Delgado: Tim Robbins
Aunt Cordelia: Kathleen Quinlan
Rhea: Rhea Perlman
Cuthbert: Brendon Fraser
Alain: Rob Lowe
Patrick Danville: Tobey McGuire
Father Callahan: James Cromwell
Marten Broadcloak: Jason Isaacs
Sylvia Pittson: Kathy Bates
Jonas Eldred: Hugh Jackman
Hart Thorin: Donald Sutherland
Sheb: John Leguizamo
Sheemie: Freddie Prinze Jr.
Alice: Virginia Madsen
Hax: Robbie Coltraine
Jamie DeCurry: Chris Evans
Henry Dean: Val Kilmer
Enrico Balazar: Al Pacino
Jack Andolini: Adrian Brody
Jack Mort: Tom Sizemore
John Farson: Tom Berringer
Calvin Tower: Jon Voight
Aaron Deepnau: Morgan Freeman
Aunt Talitha: Linda Hunt
David Quick: Brad Dourif
Blaine (voice): Rowan Atkinson
Vannay the Wise: Sean Connery
Gasher: Michael Ironside
Reynolds: James Woods
Roy DePape: Randy Quaid

Just thoughts...if you don't know who I'm talking about for a certain rule, google it!

[distortion9]

I'm not reading anything in this thread for fear of spoilers..

BIG Stephen King fan.....BIG. Not such a big fan of the tv movies he does on ABC. I just don't know why he would re-do "The Shining" on broadcast tv....wtf?!?!?!

Anyway, "The Dark Tower" series is easily my favorite of his work. I read them as they came out though and always hated the wait between books. I plan to re-read the whole series from the start before reading the final book. A MASSIVE undertaking, but too much time has passed.

Anyone ever read "The Eyes of a Dragon" by King?

If I remember correctly, I think this book spawned "The Dark Tower" series.

[bueno bob]

The Dark Tower series began back in 1970, King started writing it when he was in college but it didn't see any sort of publication until around 1981, I think. "Eyes of the Dragon" came some years after...great story on it's own, none the less...

I noticed that, above, I put Val Kilmer down as a possible Roland AND a possible Henry Dean - oops, my bad :)

Val Kilmer's reportedly so much of an ass, so long as they dyed his hair dark and had him grow some facial hair back in, he might actually work out rather well for it...

[distortion9]

Originally posted by bueno bob
The Dark Tower series began back in 1970, King started writing it when he was in college but it didn't see any sort of publication until around 1981, I think. "Eyes of the Dragon" came some years after...great story on it's own, none the less...

I noticed that, above, I put Val Kilmer down as a possible Roland AND a possible Henry Dean - oops, my bad :)

Val Kilmer's reportedly so much of an ass, so long as they dyed his hair dark and had him grow some facial hair back in, he might actually work out rather well for it...

I remember Roland, Flagg, Cort and Cuthbert were all in "Eyes"...no?

[Wa Wa Zat]

Hmmmm.........I have a lot of King/Bachman stuff but haven't really been interested in this series. The first two books were given to me by an aunt a while back(late 80's, I believe) and I just never got to reading them. I do love his short stories, though, and that got me into reading guys like E.A. Poe, Clark Ashton Smith and H.P. Lovecraft. Maybe after I'm done reading some more C.A. Smith that I just bought, I will take this up.

Has anyone read Robert E. Howards stuff? I know that he wrote the Conan series, as well as other stories, and was a contemporary of Smith and Lovecraft but is his writing up to their level? I was going to read his stuff next but might hold off for the Darktower series.

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by distortion9
I remember Roland, Flagg, Cort and Cuthbert were all in "Eyes"...no?

There was a "Roland" in "Eyes of the Dragon", but he was the king and something of a doddering fool to boot...yes, Flagg himself was in it...and I think you have Cort and Cuthbert confused with others, but Stephen King did mention in "The Drawing of the Three" that Roland (the gunslinger) had met Dennis and Thomas (from "Eyes") and even saw Flagg towards the end of Gilead...in fact, Roland recalls a man who was bothering Flagg and Flagg turned him into a yapping dog.

I just rebought Eyes and should re-read it.

[bueno bob]

Halfway through "Eyes of the Dragon" - other similarities:

1 - It's mentioned that Flagg has been to the land of Garlan (which Roland makes various passing mentions of - Roland thought it was a fictional or mythic land);

2 - There's mention of the Baronies (Eastern, Western, Northern, Southern);

3 - There's mention of Rhiannon, "Witch of the Coos".

More as I find 'em.

[POJO_Risin]

Alright...wrapped up Wizards and Glass today...moving onto Wolves of Calla...hoping to get through the series during Christmas Break...

[HippieLettuce]

I finished "Wizard & Glass" a few years ago but it took so long for number 5 to be released I kinda forgot about it.

However, I am reading "Everything's Eventual" right now and there is a short story about Roland and some vampire nurses. It's actually piqued my interest to go back and re-read the first four.

The short story is called "The Little Sisters of Eluria". It's pretty good. If your done with the series, it's a nice little extra.

[POJO_Risin]

Yeah...same thing happened with me...I was going to red the whole series over...but...found a ragged copy of Wizard and Glass...and figured I could get caught up with that...which I did...

what sucks is that I haven't read the other King books in ages...so I'll have to really stretch back to get the connections...

but there are a couple of companions I may pick up...that connect all the books for you...

one that King backed...which is mentioned in this thread somewhere...

I would suggest reading 4 again...get you caught up...then go for the last three...which is what I'm doing...

[bueno bob]

The short story itself of "Everything's Eventual" ties into DT7 as well, make sure you read that

[POJO_Risin]

Yo bro...I've read them all...

the only King books I haven't read are the final three DT books...which I'm going to consume in the next week...

and his new book about the Sox winning the series...