View Full Version : Does Howard Dean get it ??

01-31-2004, 12:57 PM
January 16, 2004

How Much Does Dean Get?

By Joel C. Rosenberg (


It's easy, indeed tempting, for Republicans to write off Howard Dean as "another McGovernite Democrat who can't win." Maybe he can't. But stranger things have happened. Think back a decade. How many Republicans really believed on the eve of the 1992 Iowa caucuses that Bill and Hillary Clinton would control the White House and the U.S. national-security apparatus for the next eight years?

That said, it's time for the media to turn up the heat and require Dean to tell the American people specifically how he would fight and win the war on terror. For example: How would President Howard Dean protect Americans from a wave of radical Islamic suicide bombers headed for our shores?

Repeated U.S. success at preventing more 9/11-style kamikaze jetliner attacks means terrorists are looking for new ways of inflicting physical and psychological damage within the American homeland. With suicide bombers striking Israel, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Turkey, and Russia in recent months, how much longer will it be before the jihadists attempt to infiltrate the United States and, heaven forbid, blow up our schools, restaurants, malls, and movie theaters?

The notion of an American president and his top advisers trying feverishly to hunt them down and intercept a wave of suicide bombers before they inflict their evil here is the premise of my recent novel, a political thriller called The Last Days. But make no mistake: the premise is hardly fiction.

The next president is going to have to fully understand the evil that is lurking just over the horizon, and have an aggressive and comprehensive approach to destroying the jihadists overseas before they have the ability to get anywhere close to our shores.

The question is whether the current frontrunner for the Democratic presidential nomination understands the threat. Recently uncovered comments by Dean are not encouraging.

In a 1998 television interview, Dean conceded the radical Islamic Palestinian group known as Hamas is "a terrorist organization." But he added that he believed that the rise of Hamas to power in the West Bank and Gaza after Yasser Arafat leaves the scene could be a "good" thing.

Here's how MSNBC.com reported the story: "In another January 1998 episode, he [Dean] also speculated that there 'will probably be good and bad' if Hamas takes control over the Palestinian leadership. Yasser Arafat, he said, 'is going to leave the scene....When that happens, I think Hamas will probably take over. There will probably be good and bad out of that. The bad, of course, is that Hamas is a terrorist organization. However, if they have to run a quasi-state they may actually have to be more responsible and start negotiations. So who knows what will happen.'"

That last phrase is troubling, to say the least. "Who knows what will happen"?

Any American political leader familiar with the Hamas covenant knows that it clearly describes the group's goals and objectives. Hamas vows to wage jihad a "holy war" against Christian and Jewish infidels, the "Capitalist West," the "Communist East," and anyone else who gets in its way. Hamas pointedly rejects all peace conferences as a waste of time. The group's founding charter offers no hint its leaders or members may suddenly become "responsible" and start to negotiate for peace at all, much less in good faith. Moreover, since the signing of its covenant in 1988, Hamas's reign of terror waged with scores of suicide bombings demonstrate how serious the group is to mass murder.

Just this morning, Hamas and a group aligned with Yasser Arafat's Fatah party claimed responsibility for another suicide bombing on the Gaza border and vowed there are more suicide bombings to come. Three Americans died in a suicide bombing in Gaza last fall. And Americans are being targeted by suicide bombers in Iraq all the time.

In January of 2003, Hamas spokesman Abd Al-Aziz Al-Rantisi posted a message on the Hamas website urging Iraq both to establish an army of suicide bombers, and to welcome suicide bombers from other countries to come into Iraq to attack Americans.

Iraq must train convoys of martyrs in belief, and this will be possible only by [studying] the Koran," declared Al-Rantisi. "[O]pen your gates to the Jihad warriors, the sons of this Islamic nation, so that you will be able to carry out your mission by defending the land of the Muslims....Give the Jihad warriors a chance to stop this oppressive aggression. The Jihad warriors must advance from everywhere to defend the land of Iraq. Another Dean interview also raises disturbing questions as to whether the Democratic frontrunner understands the threat suicide bombers pose to the American people.

According to MSNBC.com, Dean gave a February 1999 interview in which he said: "The next great tragedy is going to be Arafat's passing, believe it or not. I'm not a fan of terrorism or Arafat. But the truth is that what's happening here is [former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin] Netanyahu has thrown away the chance of a lifetime to negotiate with people he could negotiate with."

First, full disclosure: In the year 2000, I served as a adviser to former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Second, some background: my novel The Last Days begins with the assassination of Yasser Arafat by radical Islamic jihadists who proceed to spark a mafia-like Palestinian civil war over who will succeed Arafat, "the last Don of Gaza."

Now a question: Does Howard Dean still believe that the passing of Yasser Arafat from the international political scene would be a "great tragedy"? It's not exactly a mainstream position.

Arafat is widely acknowledged to be the godfather of terrorism in the Middle East. He encouraged the use of suicide bombings against Americans and Israelis in Lebanon in the 1980s. He then imported that strategy into Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza in the '90s.

Arafat's decades-long support of Saddam Hussein is a matter of public record. Saddam was so grateful he used to send checks of $25,000 to Palestinian families who sent their sons and daughters to be suicide bombers is the slaughter of Israelis.


01-31-2004, 01:09 PM
First, full disclosure: In the year 2000, I served as a adviser to former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

So this guy's a Likud/PNAC'er and we're expected to take him seriously??.

HAMAS was created by Israel, just as Al Qaeda was created by the BCE.


01-31-2004, 01:12 PM

John Ashcroft
01-31-2004, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by FORD
HAMAS was created by Israel, just as Al Qaeda was created by the BCE.

Yet you agree with Dean that Hamas is a good thing Ford?

Interesting twist...

01-31-2004, 01:34 PM
Seems as so huh ..

01-31-2004, 03:05 PM
Dr. Demento is just going after the Kucinich 'tinfoil hat' vote, since he lost the haughty 'brie-and-chablis' limousine liberal vote to Kerry.

01-31-2004, 08:01 PM


01-31-2004, 08:21 PM
Fuck Dean in the ass. Edwards may be climbing to the top of the pile after Kerry's special interest connections get the full blown media exposure it is sure to get.

Seems he has taken more money from special interests in the last 10 years than any other Senator. not good when you have run your campaign against those very same people, eh?

Dean did say one thing today that i totally back him on.
"We don't need that kind of President whether its a Democrat or Republican"
Sad part is that since Reagan's first term both sides have claimed to be against special interests, yet to this day it is still an issue...

The whole political spectrum is cluster fucked is the ONLY deduction that can be made on that issue.

01-31-2004, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by Cathedral

The whole political spectrum is cluster fucked is the ONLY deduction that can be made on that issue.

Yet you reject the one viable candidate that is speaking out against exactly that.

Or are you voting for your Ohio neighbor Dennis Kucinich??

Seriously, Dean wants to change the corporatist stranglehold on the parties. Doing that in the Democratic party would be easy enough. throw the DLC infiltrators out. Doing it in the GOP, much tougher. People like John McCain are the minority among Republicans anymore.

01-31-2004, 10:14 PM
That fucker has zero chance of getting my vote and he blew his chances of re-election in this state.

I believe it was the idea of pulling the soldiers out of Iraq on day 1 of his Admin. that changed the Ohioans view of him.

He isn't as popular as he was before he started opening his mouth.

Honestly, I'd vote for Edwards if he had a chance of getting nominated. he is the only one that says the things i want to hear. of course he says alot of shit that makes me cringe as well, lol.

John Ashcroft
01-31-2004, 10:26 PM
I'm all for special interest groups.

I think that I've laid my position on this issue out quite clearly.

Special interest groups should not be a dirty word, as they make none of their own money. They market no product. They only exist because of donations by groups of Americans that share a common philosophy, and want to lobby government.

It's democracy in it's purest form!

The fact is, it's also the reason that our system is a republic rather than a straight democracy.

Politicians should listen to "special interest" groups, because they are the collective voice of a good number of Americans. However, politicians should NEVER EVER EVER subvert the Constitution of the United States of America when catering to such groups. You see, this is where the problem lies, isn't it?

01-31-2004, 10:33 PM

In your dreams.

So if Microsoft decide to avoid anti trust laws it's because common Americans all put a dollar away to pay for interest groups.

When the oil industry funds a politician it's actually everyone at the gas pump saying that they want the directors to earn another few million each by giving them influence on environmental law?

Naive beyond belief...



John Ashcroft
01-31-2004, 10:37 PM
How is it us "Naive" dolts run your daily affairs?

01-31-2004, 10:49 PM

How did you join that gang.

Because you are human?

Because you are white?

Because you are American?

Because you are part of the US administration?

You fall for the 'we' thing everytime while your 'team' fucks you just as much a they fuck everyone else. The sad thing is that you aren't part of 'us' at all.



01-31-2004, 10:53 PM


01-31-2004, 11:01 PM
I think I just owned Johnny...:)

01-31-2004, 11:58 PM
LMMFAO, Sesh you kill me.................

John Ashcroft
02-01-2004, 04:51 PM
Heh heh heh... How'd I miss that last night???

I count myself as "us" cause I pay a healthy percentage of my paycheck funding entities like NATO (oh, and I also served directly). So yep, "us" it truly is.