PDA

View Full Version : IWF Denounces Racist Depictions of Dr. Condoleezza Rice in Popular Editorial Cartoons



John Ashcroft
11-19-2004, 09:04 AM
WASHINGTON, DC -- The Independent Women’s Forum today denounced as blatantly racist several editorial cartoons featuring Dr. Condoleezza Rice, National Security Advisor and President Bush’s nominee for Secretary of State. These cartoons clearly draw upon centuries of deep-rooted, wicked and indefensible portrayals of black women.

"The depiction of Dr. Condoleezza Rice by Jeff Danziger, Pat Oliphant and Garry Trudeau as an ebonics speaking, big-lipped, black mammy who just loves her 'massa' is a disturbing trend in editorial cartoons," said Michelle D. Bernard, senior vice president of the Independent Women's Forum. "These cartoons take the racism of the liberals who profess respect and adoration for black Americans to a new level. It is revolting."

Danziger, Oliphant and Trudeau, whose editorial cartoons are very popular in the United States, are also renowned all over the world.

"The most powerful woman in the United States is young, gifted and black. Given our nation's history of race-based slavery, the ensuing civil rights movement and our continual battle against race- and sex- based discrimination, every citizen in our nation should take pride in Dr. Rice's accomplishments," said Bernard. "She is a representation of America's past and future all at once. One must ask where is the outrage of the nation's civil rights leadership, feminist organizations, and the so-called liberals who only seem to embrace black America in election years?"

"Condoleezza Rice was the first woman ever appointed as National Security Advisor. After Secretary of State Colin Powell, Dr. Rice will be the second African American to hold both posts," said Bernard. "These cartoons are decidedly unfunny."

Link: here (http://www.iwf.org/articles/article_detail.asp?ArticleID=699)

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/uc/20041116/lpo041116.gif

http://images.ucomics.com/comics/db/2004/db040407.gif

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_111704/content/eib_extra.Par.0001.ImageFile.jpg

SensibleShoes
11-19-2004, 09:07 AM
You know I'm a dyed in the wool Liberal, at least according to SOME...cough gag FISH.....Switch ahem.

But for christ sakes, here's a woman who's so friggin smart she can hold a variety of cabinet positions and they want to trash her? Fuck, I don't know many white women who could fit that bill. It's all to her credit, and even if she's working for the biggest dork president ever,

GOOD FOR HER.

Figs
11-19-2004, 09:10 AM
It's ok 'cause she's a RepubliKKKan...

There will be no retractions/apologies...

ODShowtime
11-19-2004, 09:22 AM
This is all very PC and very liberalish.

You want to head the State Department? You want to operate on the world stage? You want the spotlight? It's all your's, but you have to deal with the consequences.

FORD
11-19-2004, 09:29 AM
The depiction of Dr. Condoleezza Rice by Jeff Danziger, Pat Oliphant and Garry Trudeau as an ebonics speaking, big-lipped, black mammy who just loves her 'massa'

This characterization is entirely false in 2 of the cartoons shown .

The Oliphant cartoon portrays her as a pet bird. Where some Republicans might find that objectionable, it hardly meets the "racist desscription"

And the Doonesbury cartoon doesn't even contain the remotest element of any of the charges made, apart from Junior referring to her as "Brown Sugar" which is based on nothing more than rumors that Rice herself started by mistakingly calling Junior her husband in a previous interview.

John Ashcroft
11-19-2004, 09:29 AM
The consequences of being belittled and demeaned by racist liberals?

From what I gather, she's doing just fine. But are you saying that enduring racism (from liberals in this case) is just "part of the job"

Typical, blame the victim not the racist assholes.

Nickdfresh
11-19-2004, 09:33 AM
Originally posted by John Ashcroft
The consequences of being belittled and demeaned by racist liberals?

From what I gather, she's doing just fine. But are you saying that enduring racism (from liberals in this case) is just "part of the job"

Typical, blame the victim not the racist assholes.

Keep fighting the battle for political correctness JA!:rolleyes:

SensibleShoes
11-19-2004, 09:34 AM
I guess I am talking about the "getting there" part. There's no question the woman can DO the jobs, she may not do them as we LIKE. And I'm sure she's not batting an eye at this shit, certainly not publicly.

YOu guys don't know me, I work in Television News - albeit in a small market - and I've been seeing a marked swing to the right in the perpetual journalistic slant - away from the PC liberal hogwash. Not a bad thing - but this is a little over the line, and I'm no Republican by any stretch of the imagination. And it's a paradox because it is ultra conservative tripe while trashing the republican administration. POinting up once again that traditional political lines are completely fucked up right now.

Just observation - and I'm off to work now to work on EXTREME MAKEOVERS!!!!! Qualifying the worth of my political opinions I guess.

Nickdfresh
11-19-2004, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by SensibleShoes
I guess I am talking about the "getting there" part. There's no question the woman can DO the jobs, she may not do them as we LIKE. And I'm sure she's not batting an eye at this shit, certainly not publicly.

YOu guys don't know me, I work in Television News - albeit in a small market - and I've been seeing a marked swing to the right in the perpetual journalistic slant - away from the PC liberal hogwash. Not a bad thing - but this is a little over the line, and I'm no Republican by any stretch of the imagination. And it's a paradox because it is ultra conservative tripe while trashing the republican administration. POinting up once again that traditional political lines are completely fucked up right now.

Just observation - and I'm off to work now to work on EXTREME MAKEOVERS!!!!! Qualifying the worth of my political opinions I guess.

Why it's almost as racist as...Willie Horton! Bullshit, this is such a non issue. Is Doonsbury's depiction of Dubya, as an invisible man with a Roman helmet on, racist? Caracatures are part of political lampooning. If you want to believe that any exaggerated or comical depiction of Condi is racist, than go ahead. But "protecting" people in power from scorn based on there skin color is just another form of racial stereotyping.

ODShowtime
11-19-2004, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by John Ashcroft
The consequences of being belittled and demeaned by racist liberals?

From what I gather, she's doing just fine. But are you saying that enduring racism (from liberals in this case) is just "part of the job"

Typical, blame the victim not the racist assholes.

I don't think the depictions you posted were racist at all.

Further, I am confused that such a staunch conservative as yourself would resort to this PC bullshit. You've probably bashed people for hiding behind PCness numerous times during your admittedly long tenure here.

Also, I don't see how anyone can characterize the National Security Advisor who presided over the worst attack on American soil in almost 200 years as "doing fine."

Seshmeister
11-19-2004, 11:49 AM
She's a fucking liar, so screw her.

FORD
11-19-2004, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
She's a fucking liar, so screw her.

Junior has. That's why they kiss in public and she refers to him as "my husband".

Which probably confused Pickles.... unless Junior secretly converted to Mormonism.

Figs
11-19-2004, 12:15 PM
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&e=8&u=/ap/radio_host_remark


Radio Host Calls Rice 'Aunt Jemima'

Fri Nov 19,12:33 AM ET U.S. National - AP


By JAMES A. CARLSON, Associated Press Writer

MILWAUKEE - A radio talk show host drew criticism Thursday after calling Condoleezza Rice (news - web sites) an "Aunt Jemima" and saying she isn't competent to be secretary of state.



John Sylvester, the program director and morning personality on WTDY-AM in Madison, said in a phone interview Thursday that he used the term on Wednesday's show to describe Rice and other blacks as having only a subservient role in the Bush administration.


Rice has served as President Bush (news - web sites)'s national security adviser and was named this week to replace the departing Colin Powell (news - web sites) as secretary of state.


Sylvester, who is white, also referred to Powell as an "Uncle Tom" — a contemptuous term for a black whose behavior toward whites is regarded as fawning or servile.


He said Thursday night that he was referring to remarks by singer and civil rights activist Harry Belafonte that the price of admittance for blacks to the Bush White House was subservience.


As for Rice, "they're using her for an illusion of inclusion," he said, adding that he feels her history as national security adviser showed a lack of competence.


Madison Mayor Dave Cieslewicz called the remarks "racially insensitive," while Sen. Russ Feingold (news, bio, voting record), D-Wis., said in a statement he joined "all Wisconsinites in rejecting" the statements.


Linda Hoskins of the NAACP's Madison branch said she could not comment on Sylvester's remarks until she had heard them in their entirety.


The station's corporate office received about 100 calls about his comments, Sylvester said.


He added that he has a long history of commitment to civil rights and has supported Madison's black community.


He said he was planning a giveaway on Friday's show of Aunt Jemima pancake mix and syrup. "I will apologize to Aunt Jemima," he said.


The incident came after a radio host in Milwaukee had his talk show taken off the air all of last week after he used word "wetback" to refer to undocumented Mexican immigrants, sparking protests from Hispanics.


___


Associated Press writer JR Ross in Madison contributed to this story.

Jesus Christ
11-19-2004, 12:26 PM
Dad and I have decided that, in retrospect, We handled the whole Tower of Babel thing wrong.

Allowing you mortals to create this myth of "different" races hath turned into a huge disaster

And this I tell you as a Jew who was born in the West Bank with a name shared by thousands of Mexicans......

Getteth Over It! There are NO "races"!

Thus saith the Lord :cool:

FORD
11-19-2004, 12:33 PM
Amen, JC!

And continuing in the gospel theme, from Garth Brooks 4:1.......

This ain't comin' from no prophet
Just an ordinary man
When I close my eyes I see
The way this world shall be
When we all walk hand in hand

When the last child cries for a crust of bread
When the last man dies for just words that he said
When there's shelter over the poorest head
We shall be free

When the last thing we notice is the color of skin
And the first thing we look for is the beauty within
When the skies and the oceans are clean again
Then we shall be free

We shall be free
We shall be free
Stand straight, walk proud
'Cause we shall be free

When we're free to love anyone we choose
When this world's big enough for all different views
When we all can worship from our own kind of pew
Then we shall be free
We shall be free

We shall be free
Have a little faith
Hold out
'Cause we shall be free

And when money talks for the very last time
And nobody walks a step behind
When there's only one race and that's mankind
Then we shall be free

We shall be free
We shall be free
Stand straight, walk proud, have a little faith, hold out
We shall be free

We shall be free
We shall be free
Stand straight, have a little faith

We shall be free

Switch84
11-19-2004, 02:45 PM
:rolleyes: I'm not surprised by this trashing of Ms. Rice. What better way to attempt the demeaning of a person than to stoop as low as the ethnicity level? Is Ms. Rice smarter than anyone on this board? You bet! Is she attacked out of obvious envy? Yes. She represents the opposite role of what black women are 'supposed' to be. We're all supposed to be ignorant, drug-addicted, moralless, sex-addicted, multiple fathered children having, subserviant dolts. Ms. Rice, myself and many other black women shatters that ugly (and hurtful) stereotype EVERYDAY!

So 'hate on', small-minded assholes. We're here to stay, whether you like it or not.

Seshmeister
11-19-2004, 06:45 PM
I'm sure Rice is smarter than me but a corrupt sneaky lying asshole is a corrupt sneaky lying asshole.

Playing the race card either way is weak.

lucky wilbury
11-19-2004, 06:52 PM
wille horton wasen't racist. all that ad did was point out that under dukockis/kerry convivted felons,murders,rapists,drug dealers were allowed to leave jail to go where ever they wanted un supervised. thats not racsist that a stupid policy being pointed out.

Nickdfresh
11-19-2004, 06:52 PM
Rice is very smart and hypereducated, no doubt. But I've also heard that she is a shitty, aloof manager that lacks "people skills." Should be perfect for Secretary of State.:rolleyes:

ELVIS
11-19-2004, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by Switch84
:rolleyes: I'm not surprised by this trashing of Ms. Rice. What better way to attempt the demeaning of a person than to stoop as low as the ethnicity level? Is Ms. Rice smarter than anyone on this board? You bet! Is she attacked out of obvious envy? Yes. She represents the opposite role of what black women are 'supposed' to be. We're all supposed to be ignorant, drug-addicted, moralless, sex-addicted, multiple fathered children having, subserviant dolts. Ms. Rice, myself and many other black women shatters that ugly (and hurtful) stereotype EVERYDAY!

So 'hate on', small-minded assholes. We're here to stay, whether you like it or not.


Awesome post!


:elvis:

Nickdfresh
11-19-2004, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by lucky wilbury
wille horton wasen't racist. all that ad did was point out that under dukockis/kerry convivted felons,murders,rapists,drug dealers were allowed to leave jail to go where ever they wanted un supervised. thats not racsist that a stupid policy being pointed out.

No showing the image of a black man on TV and blaming Dukakis for the murder/rape isn't racist at all. Actually most people would disagree. It was very racist and appealed to the ole' heartland red state territories. The Republicans know that fear and hatred spawned from ignorance and lack of understanding is a good thing.

By the way, many Republican goveners had the same policies.

Ally_Kat
11-19-2004, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by ODShowtime
I don't think the depictions you posted were racist at all.


Wait. Not even --

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_111704/content/eib_extra.Par.0001.ImageFile.jpg

?

Awh come on. If the shoe were on the other foot, there would be all hell to pay.

Seshmeister
11-19-2004, 07:31 PM
Proof that Rice is smart is that she was the only one they could trust to talk publicly under oath to the 9-11 Commision without getting completely caught out.

Switch84
11-19-2004, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
I'm sure Rice is smarter than me but a corrupt sneaky lying asshole is a corrupt sneaky lying asshole.

Playing the race card either way is weak.


:rolleyes: SHE isn't playing anything, Sesh. Step outside of your homogenous world for a second and see that people still have bigoted views of non-white people. Our new Attorney General is going to catch heat (if he isn't already) for being Hispanic; his 'suitability' and his intelligence will also be questioned.

It isn't wrong to call out biases and bigotry; it's the right thing to do. Anybody's ethnicity should never be fodder for personal or political attacks. That just shows the ignorance of the person using such deplorable methods.

John Ashcroft
11-19-2004, 08:39 PM
Amen.

Nickdfresh
11-19-2004, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by Switch84
:rolleyes: SHE isn't playing anything, Sesh. Step outside of your homogenous world for a second and see that people still have bigoted views of non-white people. Our new Attorney General is going to catch heat (if he isn't already) for being Hispanic; his 'suitability' and his intelligence will also be questioned.

It isn't wrong to call out biases and bigotry; it's the right thing to do. Anybody's ethnicity should never be fodder for personal or political attacks. That just shows the ignorance of the person using such deplorable methods.

Well, I guess 'cause she's African-American, she is now officially off-limits for criticism!

Of course those aluminum tubes were falsely used as evidence of Iraq's phantom nuclear program. But it's racist to point that out.

Let me get all misty eyed over that horrifyingly racist portrayl of a woman who has helped the Bush Administration get over 1400 troops killed in Iraq through a combination of deception and negligence.

John Ashcroft
11-19-2004, 08:59 PM
Well other than being just plain wrong on all of your "points", you also must be just a little bit stupid or something.

I don't believe I've ever heard Dr. Rice say "I knows all about aluminum tubes"... Key (demeaningly racist) word "knows".

Maybe the "artist" just watched "The Color Purple" before making that piece of shit cartoon. But I don't believe black people typically talk like that. In fact, I know they don't.

Nickdfresh
11-19-2004, 09:09 PM
What point was I wrong on?

Switch84
11-19-2004, 09:14 PM
Originally posted by John Ashcroft
Well other than being just plain wrong on all of your "points", you also must be just a little bit stupid or something.

I don't believe I've ever heard Dr. Rice say "I knows all about aluminum tubes"... Key (demeaningly racist) word "knows".

Maybe the "artist" just watched "The Color Purple" before making that piece of shit cartoon. But I don't believe black people typically talk like that. In fact, I know they don't.


:) This is exactly what I'm talking about, JA! Dr. Rice isn't above criticism. I never said she was. It's those shitty depictions that concern and anger me! "I KNOWS all about aluminum tubes...." is a direct jab at the stereotype that black people aren't smart enough to even speak properly, much less hold a position of distinction. For Sesh, Darling Nikki and others to not see that faux pax makes me question their mindset.

How much plainer could this fact be stated? To think nothing's wrong with perpetuating this stereotype shows that this is how these naysayers feel about black people, too.

FORD
11-19-2004, 09:23 PM
Originally posted by lucky wilbury
wille horton wasen't racist. all that ad did was point out that under dukockis/kerry convivted felons,murders,rapists,drug dealers were allowed to leave jail to go where ever they wanted un supervised. thats not racsist that a stupid policy being pointed out.

Full Metal Jackoff - lyrics by Jello Biafra

Around our nation's capital
There's a freeway 8 lanes wide
White concrete ringed around the city
For those who want inside
Get on get off
Ignore everything to the sides
In your midst I drive
While homeboys in the back of the van make drugs

Wanna hide something like a crack lab
Just put it in plain sight
Only stop to refuel and unload
More poison to tear more lives apart
Gang wars like never before
Better lock your doors, buy some guns
And pray for martial law

On the Washington D.C. Beltway
Around and around I go
In the black van with no windows
And a chimney puffing smoke
Bloody headlines in the news each day
Drug "crisis" everywhere
So much comes in so easy
It's as though someone wants it there

It would be a little obvious
To fence off all the slums
Hand out machine guns
to the poor in the projects
And watch 'em kill each other off
A more subtle genocide is when
The only hope for the young
Is to join the Army and slowly die
Wall Street or Crack Dealer Avenue
The last roads left to the American Dream

Wall Street or Crack Dealer Avenue
Wall Street or Crack Dealer Avenue
Only one road leads to this neighborhood
Little kids wanna sell drugs when they grow up

The folks might get just a little upset
If they knew where that dope comes from
From Colombia to the Contras
To our Air Force bases, where we trade it for guns
The moral equivilent of a serial killer
And his CIA friends
Call the shots from the White House
But now that we own the media too
Those stories just aren't run

On the Washington D.C. Beltway, 'round and 'round I go
In a black van with no windows, and a chimney puffing smoke
Same gang that ran smack in Viet Nam
Ain't got no reason to fear
Just get a Vice President so dumb
The crook at the top never gets impeached

That sure was easy wasn't it?
That sure was easy wasn't it?
More crack-more panic-more cops-more jails

You see emergency-total war
You see emergency-total war
You see a black face-you see a crackhead
You see a black face-you see a crackhead
You see a black face-you see Willie Horton with a knife
You see Willie Horton with a knife

You see one Willie Horton you've seen them all
They're everywhere, I know
You asked for it, you've got it
Drug suspects have no rights at all
Property seized and sold before trial
Labor camps-on American soil?!?
Neo-Nazi bootboys
That the cops never seem to arrest
Prowl neighborhoods with baseball bats
Why now? Why do they get so much press...?

Mein Kampf-the mini series
Ollie North-"patriotic" hero
The leader for tomorrow is yours today
Finally gotcha psyched for a police state

On the Washington D.C. Beltway
Around and around I go
In a black van with no windows
And a chimney puffing smoke
My van's a mobile oven now
That burns the bodies you never see
Just like in Chile or Guatemala
People just seem to disappear

Just like Rome
We fell asleep when we got spoiled
Ignore human rights in the rest of the world
Ya might just lose your own

As the noose of narco-militarism
Tightens 'round your necks

We worry about burning flags
And pee in jars at work
To keep our jobs

But if someone came for you one night
And dragged you away
do you really think your neighbors
Would even care....

Ollie for president, he'll get things done!!!
Ollie for president, he'll get things done!!!
Ollie for president, he'll get things done!!!

Seshmeister
11-19-2004, 09:24 PM
Originally posted by Switch84
Our new Attorney General is going to catch heat (if he isn't already) for being Hispanic; his 'suitability' and his intelligence will also be questioned.


He's going to catch heat from me for being in favor of torture.

I couldn't give a shit what color he is.

Nickdfresh
11-19-2004, 09:27 PM
Okay, Condi gets a free pass with the race card. I can google a million cartoons that show unfair/ludicrous/stereotypical characterizations of many politicians, black or white.

By the way, did Asscroft post a Rush Limbaugh said Donovan McNabb is getting preferencial treatment by the media because he's black articles? No I didn't think so.

Nickdfresh
11-19-2004, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
He's going to catch heat from me for being in favor of torture.

I couldn't give a shit what color he is.

Actually he's in trouble with some Republican lawmakers because he favors Affirmative Action.

Are there any anti-racist, politically correct Republicans here that are so outraged by the treatment of minorities in this country that they support Affirmative Action? I didn't think so.

FORD
11-19-2004, 09:31 PM
Actually, Mush managed to get away with that racist statement, because 2 days later it was totally buried by the revelation that he was an Oxycontin junkie.

ELVIS
11-19-2004, 09:40 PM
I don't think his statement was racist...

Seshmeister
11-19-2004, 09:45 PM
As White House counsel, Gonzales is known to have done the following:

He drafted the original military commission order signed by President Bush on November 14, 2001, which would have allowed suspects apprehended in the global campaign against terrorism to be secretly charged, tried, and even executed without the most basic due process protections. This week a federal court halted military commissions because they violate the Geneva Conventions and fair-trial standards.

He provided the legal basis for President Bush’s decision on February 7, 2002, claiming that, as the president, he has the constitutional authority to deny protections of the Geneva Conventions to persons picked up during the war in Afghanistan. In his January 25, 2002 memorandum, Gonzales argued that the Geneva Conventions protections—including its “strict limitations on questioning enemy prisoners”—were rendered “obsolete” and “quaint” by the war on terror. Gonzales ignored the warnings of senior military officers that his position on the Geneva Conventions would undermine respect for law in the U.S. military.

He solicited the August 2002 torture memo from the Justice Department, which contended that the President has “commander-in-chief authority” to order torture and proposed potential legal defense for U.S. officials accused of torture. Gonzales has never publicly revealed his views about the memo.

First you have a god botherer who got defeated in an election by a dead guy, who refuses to dance or drink because it is against god.

You then replace him with a guy who works out ways to circumnavigate laws so that people can be tortured...

No wonder people are talking about moving to Canada, I'm getting worried about even visiting the US any more.

You gonna change your username to the torture guy JA?

Cheers!

:gulp:

John Ashcroft
11-19-2004, 09:48 PM
Ah, Sesh brings out the liberal talking points from the U.S.

At least you've been keeping up with the politics in the only country that matters anymore.

Oh, and BTW, are you sure you want to throw around "torture" allegations against the U.S.? Your "kingdom" certainly helped write the book on such practices. I don't believe we're ever gonna match your history in regards to torture practices.

Nickdfresh
11-19-2004, 09:51 PM
Originally posted by John Ashcroft
Ah, Sesh brings out the liberal talking points from the U.S.

At least you've been keeping up with the politics in the only country that matters anymore.


Gee John, a lot of people seem to think we matter less and less. Notice how the value of a dollar is dropping like a rock lately?

ELVIS
11-19-2004, 09:51 PM
Hmmm...

John Ashcroft
11-19-2004, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Gee John, a lot of people seem to think we matter less and less. Notice how the value of a dollar is dropping like a rock lately?

Please explain how you've drawn that conclusion.

Be sure to include just why the "weak" dollar is bad for the American economy.

Switch84
11-19-2004, 09:57 PM
:rolleyes: I've already spoken about Affirmative Action. I've already posted why playing on stereotypes (which in themselves are based on ignorance and bigotry) should never be used for anyone, yet you still didn't understand.

You're almost as good at smoke and mirrors as David Copperfield! What else do you have up your ass that you can pull out to deflect from the subject of this thread?

One more time for the Gipper!

THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR USING ETHNICITY FOR CRITICISM OF ANYONE!!!

Nickdfresh
11-19-2004, 09:58 PM
The Europeans think we are a joke due to Bush's massive deficit spending.

As the value of the dollar falls, so does our purchasing power.

FORD
11-19-2004, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by Switch84

One more time for the Gipper!

THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR USING ETHNICITY FOR CRITICISM OF ANYONE!!!

Uh, didn't the "Gipper" have a guy in his cabinet who referred to his staff as " a black, a woman, two jews, and a cripple"??

Switch84
11-19-2004, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
The Europeans think we are a joke due to Bush's massive deficit spending.

As the value of the dollar falls, so does our purchasing power.

:eek: :p The Europeans? That's what's wrong with you, Darling Nikki! Even with the shittiest checkbook on the planet (which we do NOT have, btw) we're not the Titanic! No country's 'in the black' consistently. We hit highs, we drop some deep lows, but not so deep that we can't recover from it. I'm not ready to do a Chicken Little and cry about the sky's falling.

We've hit a rough patch, but we will get over it.

Nickdfresh
11-19-2004, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by Switch84
:rolleyes: I've already spoken about Affirmative Action. I've already posted why playing on stereotypes (which in themselves are based on ignorance and bigotry) should never be used for anyone, yet you still didn't understand.

You're almost as good at smoke and mirrors as David Copperfield! What else do you have up your ass that you can pull out to deflect from the subject of this thread?

One more time for the Gipper!

THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR USING ETHNICITY FOR CRITICISM OF ANYONE!!!

I wasn't necessarily asking you about Affirmative action. That was a rhetorical question for all of the conservatives in the house upset by this unfair portrayal of Condi (which I credit you for addressing because no one else has as of yet).

And, I not saying that I like all of these cartoons, what I object to is the assertion that there is a wide ranging left wing plot to destroy Condi because she is black which absurd, that is the real issue here.

And quite frankly Switch, I have to call you a hypocrite, because you seem to have no problem stereotyping people based on nationality (like the Canadian, Angel) or making remarks about liberals as a group which of course is just another form of bigotry.

Didn't you make the remark that John Edwards wife was an "attention whore" because she announced she had breast cancer after the election was over? Quite frankly Switch, it's always about you isn't it. If something insensitive offends you, it must be completely evil, but you have no problem attacking and projecting stereotypes on to others.

Switch84
11-19-2004, 10:41 PM
:p Yep, I've finally touched on something you'd understand! Like I've posted many times before, I don't start shit; I FINISH IT. Angel took it upon herself to jump onto the anti-American bashing party, and I responded appropriately. Nobody's going to get a free pass at denigrading my country. And I was correct in stating that foreigners have no voice in our policies, elections, or elected officials. I have no right to tell other nations who to elect as their Presidents or Prime Ministers (and I shouldn't.)

As for the Elizabeth Edwards cancer announcement, many have questioned the timing, yet you choose to focus on me. I've never been a shrinking violet, and I never will be. Conspiracy theorists thrive on stories like hers, searching for a political angle. And it is a game that all parties play.


Good try with the magic, 'David'. You're almost (not quite) as good as Ford.


BUWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!! :D

Seshmeister
11-19-2004, 10:44 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
The Europeans think we are a joke due to Bush

Let me shorten that for you...:)

A scary joke though...

Seshmeister
11-19-2004, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by Switch84
Nobody's going to get a free pass at denigrading my country. And I was correct in stating that foreigners have no voice in our policies, elections, or elected officials. I have no right to tell other nations who to elect as their Presidents or Prime Ministers (and I shouldn't.)


That would be a fair argument if the US still had an isolationist foreign policy.

If you elect a government that wanders about the world fucking things up for the rest of us then we're gonna say so.

Cheers!

:gulp:

Switch84
11-19-2004, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
Let me shorten that for you...:)

A scary joke though...


:p Oh, please, Sesh! You honestly think Dubya's scary? You don't buy that 'Hitler' crap, do you?

Is my "Bootyshots" thread going to be intact when DDLR gets back up and running? This is more important to me than this political yahooing back and forth.


ROFLMMFAOBT!

Nickdfresh
11-19-2004, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by Switch84
:p Yep, I've finally touched on something you'd understand! Like I've posted many times before, I don't start shit; I FINISH IT. Angel took it upon herself to jump onto the anti-American bashing party, and I responded appropriately. Nobody's going to get a free pass at denigrading my country. And I was correct in stating that foreigners have no voice in our policies, elections, or elected officials. I have no right to tell other nations who to elect as their Presidents or Prime Ministers (and I shouldn't.)

Except for Iraq, Venezuela, Vietnam, Italy, Chile, and a dozen or so other governments, elections, and countries in which we have attempted to alter the outcome of the election or install a puppet gov't via military coup. You are quite clearly wrong on that one.


As for the Elizabeth Edwards cancer announcement, many have questioned the timing, yet you choose to focus on me. I've never been a shrinking violet, and I never will be. Conspiracy theorists thrive on stories like hers, searching for a political angle. And it is a game that all parties play.

You seemed rather callous and giddy about her cancer which I found offensive, regardless of the timing. In her situation you and most other people would have done the same thing. By the way, why did Condi wait to announce she was having surgery until after her promotion? Is she an "attention whore" too?

Good try with the magic, 'David'. You're almost (not quite) as good as Ford.
And you're right! "Me Wise Magic."

Ford's the master. I don't have to be as good as him to make sense.


BUWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!! Indeed!


:D

Seshmeister
11-19-2004, 10:53 PM
Yeah your bootyshots thread is fine.

Of course Dubya's scary. Anyone that goes about starting wars and kidnapping people holding them without trial with a big fucking army to back them up is scary.

Somewhere along the line I'm afraid your government no longer became seen as the 'good guys'.

Cheers!

:gulp:

Seshmeister
11-19-2004, 10:56 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh


Props to you for knowing about what happened in Chile.

I honestly wonder sometimes if many people know what has been done in their name over the years...

That goes for the UK and France too of course.

Nickdfresh
11-19-2004, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
That would be a fair argument if the US still had an isolationist foreign policy.

If you elect a government that wanders about the world fucking things up for the rest of us then we're gonna say so.

Cheers!

:gulp:

To be fair, the Engish have done a lot of "fucking things up" in their time!

Warham
11-19-2004, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by FORD
Full Metal Jackoff - lyrics by Jello Biafra

Around our nation's capital
There's a freeway 8 lanes wide
White concrete ringed around the city
For those who want inside
Get on get off
Ignore everything to the sides
In your midst I drive
While homeboys in the back of the van make drugs

Wanna hide something like a crack lab
Just put it in plain sight
Only stop to refuel and unload
More poison to tear more lives apart
Gang wars like never before
Better lock your doors, buy some guns
And pray for martial law

On the Washington D.C. Beltway
Around and around I go
In the black van with no windows
And a chimney puffing smoke
Bloody headlines in the news each day
Drug "crisis" everywhere
So much comes in so easy
It's as though someone wants it there

It would be a little obvious
To fence off all the slums
Hand out machine guns
to the poor in the projects
And watch 'em kill each other off
A more subtle genocide is when
The only hope for the young
Is to join the Army and slowly die
Wall Street or Crack Dealer Avenue
The last roads left to the American Dream

Wall Street or Crack Dealer Avenue
Wall Street or Crack Dealer Avenue
Only one road leads to this neighborhood
Little kids wanna sell drugs when they grow up

The folks might get just a little upset
If they knew where that dope comes from
From Colombia to the Contras
To our Air Force bases, where we trade it for guns
The moral equivilent of a serial killer
And his CIA friends
Call the shots from the White House
But now that we own the media too
Those stories just aren't run

On the Washington D.C. Beltway, 'round and 'round I go
In a black van with no windows, and a chimney puffing smoke
Same gang that ran smack in Viet Nam
Ain't got no reason to fear
Just get a Vice President so dumb
The crook at the top never gets impeached

That sure was easy wasn't it?
That sure was easy wasn't it?
More crack-more panic-more cops-more jails

You see emergency-total war
You see emergency-total war
You see a black face-you see a crackhead
You see a black face-you see a crackhead
You see a black face-you see Willie Horton with a knife
You see Willie Horton with a knife

You see one Willie Horton you've seen them all
They're everywhere, I know
You asked for it, you've got it
Drug suspects have no rights at all
Property seized and sold before trial
Labor camps-on American soil?!?
Neo-Nazi bootboys
That the cops never seem to arrest
Prowl neighborhoods with baseball bats
Why now? Why do they get so much press...?

Mein Kampf-the mini series
Ollie North-"patriotic" hero
The leader for tomorrow is yours today
Finally gotcha psyched for a police state

On the Washington D.C. Beltway
Around and around I go
In a black van with no windows
And a chimney puffing smoke
My van's a mobile oven now
That burns the bodies you never see
Just like in Chile or Guatemala
People just seem to disappear

Just like Rome
We fell asleep when we got spoiled
Ignore human rights in the rest of the world
Ya might just lose your own

As the noose of narco-militarism
Tightens 'round your necks

We worry about burning flags
And pee in jars at work
To keep our jobs

But if someone came for you one night
And dragged you away
do you really think your neighbors
Would even care....

Ollie for president, he'll get things done!!!
Ollie for president, he'll get things done!!!
Ollie for president, he'll get things done!!!

If you listen to what rock stars say, your party's in trouble.

Why just ask Springsteen, Mellencamp and Matthews!

Nickdfresh
11-19-2004, 11:02 PM
I don't. I read books. Are you "Proud to be an American."

Seshmeister
11-19-2004, 11:03 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
To be fair, the Engish have done a lot of "fucking things up" in their time!

Tell me about it...

They fucked us over for 100s of years...

Switch84
11-19-2004, 11:06 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
Props to you for knowing about what happened in Chile.

I honestly wonder sometimes if many people know what has been done in their name over the years...

That goes for the UK and France too of course.


:p That goes for ANY nation. Noone's blameless. The only difference is the attention is focused on the US's activities. This country's less than 230 years old. Countries in your region of the world have committed atrocities longer than our government's been in existence.

I don't agree with everything that's going on, but comparing President Bush to Hitler is way off base.

Seshmeister
11-19-2004, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by Switch84
I don't agree with everything that's going on, but comparing President Bush to Hitler is way off base.

I never did.

Hitler was a great speaker and a vegetarian...:)

Nickdfresh
11-19-2004, 11:08 PM
Besides, these are the lyrics I have listening to lately:

GREEN DAY

-Holiday-

Hear the sound of the falling rain,
Coming down like an Armageddon flame,
The shame,
The ones who died without a name,
Hear the dogs howling out of key,
To a hymn called "Faith and Misery",
And bleed,
the company lost the war today

I beg to dream and differ,
From the hollow lies,
This is the dawning of the rest of our lives
On Holiday

Hear the drum pounding out of time,
Another protester has crossed the line,
To find the money's on the other side,
Can I get another Amen?(AMEN)
There's a flag wrapped around the score of men,
A gag,
A plastic bag on a monument

I beg to dream and differ,
From the hollow lies,
This is the dawning of the rest of our lives
On Holiday

The representative from California has the floor

Zieg Heil to the president gas, man,
Bombs away is your punishment,
Pulverize the Eiffel towers,
Who criticize your government,
Bang, Bang goes the broken glass, man,
Kill all the fags that don't agree,
Trials by fire setting fire,
Is not a way that's meant for me,
Just cause,
Just cause because we're outlaws, yeah!

I beg to dream and differ,
From the hollow lies,
This is the dawning of the rest of our lives,I beg to dream and differ,
From the hollow lies,
This is the dawning of the rest of our lives

This is our lives on holiday


:cool:

Seshmeister
11-19-2004, 11:09 PM
You know you're in trouble when the leader of the West is described as "Not as bad as Hitler" huh...:)

Nickdfresh
11-19-2004, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by Switch84
:... but comparing President Bush to Hitler is way off base.

I agree! The Hitler anology is way over fucking used. Even by me.

FORD
11-19-2004, 11:11 PM
Originally posted by Warham
If you listen to what rock stars say, your party's in trouble.

Why just ask Springsteen, Mellencamp and Matthews!

I'm reasonably sure that Jello Biafra's opinion of the Democratic "leadership" is even lower than mine at the moment.

Switch84
11-19-2004, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
I never did.

Hitler was a great speaker and a vegetarian...:)


;) A Vegan! Now THAT'S scary..............


ROFLMMFAOBT!

Nickdfresh
11-19-2004, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
Tell me about it...

They fucked us over for 100s of years...

I forgot you were Scottish.

Switch84
11-19-2004, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I forgot you were Scottish.

:p He is! England fucked over the Irish and the Scots!


"Braveheart"! That movie touched on that very subject.

Nickdfresh
11-19-2004, 11:21 PM
Don't get me started on the Irish. I might start posting long biographies of anorexic IRA members- LOL!

Switch84
11-19-2004, 11:24 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Don't get me started on the Irish. I might start posting long biographies of anorexic IRA members- LOL!


;) :p You'll draw the wrath of Denny Boy for ragging on Bobby Sands!


ROFL!

Nickdfresh
11-19-2004, 11:27 PM
Fuck Bobby Sands, the bomber cunt. And fuck Denny that splamda.

Switch84
11-19-2004, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Fuck Bobby Sands, the bomber cunt. And fuck Denny that splamda.


;) Uh, oh......I hear panda rumblings.......

Seshmeister
11-19-2004, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by Switch84
:p He is! England fucked over the Irish and the Scots!


"Braveheart"! That movie touched on that very subject.

Don't get me wrong we have as many assholes here as anywhere else.

Hell a couple of first generation Scots founded the KKK. Half the fucking bigoted orangemen in Nothern Ireland came from Scotland.

We're just more cynical about politicians than the average American which must look sometimes like I am constantly ragging on your country.

Cheers!

:gulp:

Switch84
11-19-2004, 11:39 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
Don't get me wrong we have as many assholes here as anywhere else.

Hell a couple of first generation Scots founded the KKK. Half the fucking bigoted orangemen in Nothern Ireland came from Scotland.

We're just more cynical about politicians than the average American which must look sometimes like I am constantly ragging on your country.

Cheers!

:gulp:


:D LOL, no shit! It's all good. We Americans sometimes have a "King of the World" pomposity. That's why it seems our leaders are so damn arrogant. Oops.....sometimes they are.


My bad! LMAO!

Nickdfresh
11-20-2004, 12:16 AM
Originally posted by Switch84
:D LOL, no shit! It's all good. We Americans sometimes have a "King of the World" pomposity. That's why it seems our leaders are so damn arrogant. Oops.....sometimes they are.


My bad! LMAO!

I wish your pompous compatriots like Ashcroft would come to that realization.

Seshmeister
11-20-2004, 12:35 AM
The man can't dance.

Switch84
11-20-2004, 01:18 AM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I wish your pompous compatriots like Ashcroft would come to that realization.


:p :D Hey, that includes you too, Darling Nikki!


Now be a good boy and post a bootyshot of yourself.......


BUWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!!

FORD
11-20-2004, 01:28 AM
Originally posted by Seshmeister

Hell a couple of first generation Scots founded the KKK.

Never heard that before, but by use of the word "Klan" it actually does make sense.

So why don't they wear skirts instead of sheets?

lucky wilbury
11-20-2004, 02:48 AM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
No showing the image of a black man on TV and blaming Dukakis for the murder/rape isn't racist at all. Actually most people would disagree. It was very racist and appealed to the ole' heartland red state territories. The Republicans know that fear and hatred spawned from ignorance and lack of understanding is a good thing.

By the way, many Republican goveners had the same policies.

what the hell are you talking about!?! willie horton was used in the ad because he was released on one of these little free trips and while he was out he raped and murdered again. theres NOTHING racist about that. it telling people what actually happend.facts. and it happend with other prisnors as well. it was used to point out Dukakis lack of judgment. for him to let a murder and a rapist out on the streets for a few days then theguy guy does it again is inexcusable. he even vetoed a bill that would have stopped horton from ever being released. it was all about Dukakis judgement or lack there of.here are two articles on the facts of ths case. i'll bold the important parts take note on who brought it up first


http://www.forerunner.com/forerunner/X0158_Dukakis__Willie_Hort.html

Dukakis & Willie Horton
The Willie Horton case
10/88

In Massachusetts, first-degree murderers used to get out of prison for the weekend ...

Governor Michael Dukakis believed that it was "rehabilitative" for prisoners to be allowed to roam the streets unsupervised in what was known as the Prison Furlough Program.

That practice was finally outlawed by state legislators on April 28, 1988, after an enormous grassroots petition drive brought the issue before the people.

Here are the cold hard facts about Governor Dukakis' "experiment in justice," which has received little coverage on campaign news broadcasts:

* On June 6, 1986, convicted murderer Willie Horton was released from the Northeastern Correctional Center in Concord. Under state law, he had become eligible for an unguarded, 48-hour furlough. He never came back.

* Horton showed up in Oxon Hill, Maryland, on April 3, 1987. Clifford Barnes, 28, heard footsteps in his house and thought his fiancée had returned early from a wedding party. Suddenly Willie Horton stepped out of the shadows with a gun. For the next seven hours, Horton punched, pistol-whipped, and kicked Barnes - and also cut him 22 times across his midsection.

* When Barnes' fiancée Angela returned that evening, Horton gagged her and savagely raped her twice. Horton then stole Barnes' car, and was later chased by police until captured.

* On October 20, 1987, Horton was sentenced in Maryland to two consecutive life terms plus 85 years. The sentencing judge refused to return Horton to Massachusetts, saying, "I'm not prepared to take the chance that Mr. Horton might again be furloughed or otherwise released. This man should never draw a breath of free air again."

* Variations of this story were repeated on several occasions in Massachusetts. Confessed rapist John Zukoski, who had brutally beaten and murdered a 44 year-old woman in 1970, became eligible for furloughs and was eventually paroled in 1986. A few months later he was arrested and indicted yet again for beating and raping a woman.

* The Massachusetts inmate furlough program actually began under Governor Francis Sargent in 1972. But in 1976 Governor Dukakis vetoed a bill to ban furloughs for first-degree murderers. It would, he said, "Cut the heart out of inmate rehabilitation."

* The program, in essence, released killers on an "honor system" to see if they would stay out of trouble. On the average, convicts who had been sentenced to "life without parole" spent fewer than 19 years in prison. By March 1987, Dukakis had commuted the sentences of 28 first-degree murderers.

* Of over 80 Massachusetts convicts listed as escaped and still at large, only four had actually "escaped." The rest simply walked away from furloughs, prerelease centers and other minimum-security programs. These convicts included murderers, rapists, armed robbers and drug dealers.

* First-degree murderer Armand Therrien was transferred from a medium security prison to a minimum-security one, which made him eligible for a work-release program. He walked off and vanished in December 1987.

* When citizens began to protest, Dukakis and his aides defended the program relentlessly. One commissioner stated that furloughs were a "management tool" to help the prisons. Unless a convict had hope of parole, he argued, "we would have a very dangerous population in an already dangerous system." But, critics wondered, if armed guards can't control dangerous killers inside locked cells, how are unarmed citizens supposed to deal with them?

* It was through the efforts of a grassroots organization, Citizens Against Unsafe Society, that the issue was finally brought before the people. With mounting pressure from his own aides to sign a bill ending the program - for fear that it would hurt his presidential campaign - Dukakis signed the legislation in April of this year.

America ... do we want a president in office who would try the same "experiment in justice" on a national level?

The majority of this material was taken from the article "Getting Away with Murder," by Robert James Bidinotto, which appeared in Reader's Digest, July 1988.


--------------------

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Horton

William R. Horton Jr. (born August 12, 1951 in Chesterfield, South Carolina) is a convicted felon who was the subject of a controversial political advertisement during the 1988 U.S. Presidential race.

On October 26, 1974, in Lawrence, Massachusetts, Horton and two accomplices robbed Joseph Fournier, a 17 year old gas station attendant, stabbed him 19 times, and left him in a trash can. Fournier died from blood loss. Horton was convicted of murder, sentenced to life imprisonment, and incarcerated at the Concord Correctional Facility in Massachusetts. On June 6, 1986, he was released as part of a weekend furlough program but did not return.

On April 3, 1987 in Oxon Hill, Maryland, Horton assaulted local resident Clifford Barnes and raped his fiancée. He then stole Barnes' car, but was later captured by police after a chase. That autumn in Maryland, Horton was sentenced to two consecutive life terms plus 85 years. Horton admitted to stealing the car but has maintained that he did not commit the assaults on the Barnes couple.

Democratic Presidential candidate Michael Dukakis was the governor of Massachusetts at the time, and while he did not start the furlough program, he had supported it as a method of rehabilitation. The State inmate furlough program was actually signed into law by Governor Francis W. Sargent in 1972. However, in 1976, Governor Dukakis vetoed a bill that would have made inmates convicted of first-degree murder ineligible for furloughs. The program remained in effect through the intervening term of governor Edward J. King and was abolished during Dukakis's final term of office on April 28, 1988.

Senator Al Gore raised the issue of the furlough program during the 1988 Democratic presidential primary. At a debate in New York, Gore alluded to Horton's case without naming him. In June of 1988, after Dukakis had clinched the Democratic Party nomination, Republican candidate George H.W. Bush seized on the Horton case, bringing it up repeatedly in campaign speeches. Bush's campaign manager, Lee Atwater, bragged that "by the time this election is over, Willie Horton will be a household name" and media consultant Roger Ailes (now president of Fox News Channel) was reported to remark "the only question is whether we depict Willie Horton with a knife in his hand or without it."

Beginning on September 21, 1988, the Americans for Bush arm of the National Security Political Action Committee, began running an attack ad entitled "Weekend Passes," using the Horton case to attack Dukakis. The ad was produced by media consultant Larry McCarthy, who had previously worked for Ailes. After clearing the ad with television stations, McCarthy went back and added a menancing mug shot of Horton, who is African-American. He called the image "every suburban mother's greatest fear." The ad was run as an independent expenditure, separate from the Bush campaign, which claimed, as is legally required, not to have had any role in its production.

On October 5, a day after the "Weekend Passes" ad was taken off the airwaves, the Bush campaign ran its own ad, "Revolving Door," which also attacked Dukakis over the weekend furlough program. While the advertisement did not mention Horton or feature his photograph, it did depict a variety of intimidating-looking men walking in and out of prison through a revolving door. The commercial was filmed at an actual state prison in Draper, Utah, but the persons depicted - thirty in all, including three African-Americans and two Hispanics - were all paid actors.

Horton and his role in the campaign became something of a cause celebre among liberals in the United States, including in the media; Newsday columnist Jimmy Breslin published an interview with Horton on the day of Bush's inauguration.

In 1990, the Ohio Democratic Party and a group called "Black Elected Democrats of Ohio" filed a complaint with the Federal Elections Commission alleging that NSPAC had coordinated or cooperated with the Bush campaign in airing the ad, which would make it an illegal in-kind campaign contribution. Investigation by the FEC, including deposition of officials from both organizations, revealed indirect connections between McCarthy and the Bush campaign (such as his having previously worked for Ailes), but found no direct evidence of wrongdoing, and the investigation reached an impasse and was eventually closed with no finding of any violation of campaign finance laws.

On April 18, 1996, Horton was transferred to the Maryland House of Correction Annex, a maximum security prison in Jessup, Maryland, where he remains today.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ELVIS
11-20-2004, 04:49 AM
Killer post, Lucky...

The furlough program proved to be a bad experiment in justice...

You do the crime, you do the time...

Period!

If caught, that is...


:elvis:

Seshmeister
11-20-2004, 06:01 AM
And not in the government...

ELVIS
11-20-2004, 06:05 AM
Be more specific...

Seshmeister
11-20-2004, 06:18 AM
And not in the current US administration...:)

ELVIS
11-20-2004, 06:30 AM
Hmmm...

Nickdfresh
11-20-2004, 07:13 AM
Originally posted by lucky wilbury
what the hell are you talking about!?! willie horton was used in the ad because he was released on one of these little free trips and while he was out he raped and murdered again. theres NOTHING racist about that. it telling people what actually happend.facts. and it happend with other prisnors as well. it was used to point out Dukakis lack of judgment. for him to let a murder and a rapist out on the streets for a few days then theguy guy does it again is inexcusable. he even vetoed a bill that would have stopped horton from ever being released. it was all about Dukakis judgement or lack there of.here are two articles on the facts of ths case. i'll bold the important parts take note on who brought it up first


I'm well aware of what Horton did. That's not the point! Why did they make a point of showing his face? Red state, suburban white's fear of black people--that's why! If you think anything else, you're lying or insane.

ELVIS
11-20-2004, 07:14 AM
What is your point ??

Nickdfresh
11-20-2004, 07:26 AM
Originally posted by ELVIS
What is your point ??

I think it had something to do with the topic of politics and race that started with the Condi caricature thing.

Switch84
11-20-2004, 07:37 AM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I think it had something to do with the topic of politics and race that started with the Condi caricature thing.


;) Ok, forget Dr. Rice for a moment! I'm still waiting for you to post a bootyshot of yourself, Darling Nikki.


LMAOBT!

Nickdfresh
11-20-2004, 07:43 AM
Originally posted by Switch84
;) Ok, forget Dr. Rice for a moment! I'm still waiting for you to post a bootyshot of yourself, Darling Nikki.


LMAOBT!

I need to get a digital camera. They never have the (cheap) one I want on sale! Did you see Ford's picture?

Switch84
11-20-2004, 07:51 AM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I need to get a digital camera. They never have the (cheap) one I want on sale! Did you see Ford's picture?

:p That's always the case with these electronic stores! Nope, I haven't seen it.

Nickdfresh
11-20-2004, 08:05 AM
You will. It's now someone's avatar. The bastard! But it is funny.

Lou
11-20-2004, 12:43 PM
Liberals are very, VERY upset because it just doesn't jive with their image of being the only party that really "reaches out" to blacks. I don't see it happening any time soon but if the Democrats start losing the black vote they are THROUGH. I mean done, over, toast, finito.

Lou
11-20-2004, 12:52 PM
And BTW, just to break the news to you, there are A LOT of bigoted Democrats on the East Coast.

There is a marked difference between East Coast Democratic politicians and West Coast Democratic politicians. I can't articulate it but if someone wants to help me out, there is a difference. Put it this way, the East Coast ones aren't as lovey-dovey as the West Coast ones are. They're still for crap like tax hikes and boondoggling government jobs but the white Dems on the East Coast are not going to be out there promoting special interest/minority causes.

I read an article in the Inquirer about how the black population here was not really that warm to Kerry per se as to simply getting a Democrat in the White House. They quoted people saying, "Well he doesn't really do much for me, I just can't stand Bush."

Dr. Love
11-20-2004, 01:08 PM
There's a lot of bigoted people everywhere. I highly doubt it is limited to a region or a party.

For either party to deny it is blind.

Lou
11-20-2004, 01:24 PM
Yeah and that's my point, that yes believe it or not Democrats are the racist ones here even though the perception is that Democrats are the "loving party." They are PISSED OFF that a black woman in a high position dares to be a Republican after all the Democratic party has "done" for blacks :rolleyes:

lucky wilbury
11-20-2004, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I'm well aware of what Horton did. That's not the point! Why did they make a point of showing his face? Red state, suburban white's fear of black people--that's why! If you think anything else, you're lying or insane.

the reason he was shown was to say look at this guy. a convicted murderer, rapists was let out on the street by a presidential canidate not only that but we went out and did it again. it's more effective to have a picture of the criminal on screen rather then have some blue screen with a voice over saying his name. would you have prefered crime scene photos to be used with the voice over:

"willie horton was a conivicted murderer and rapist, yet he was released form jail under a Dukakis administration. like many other criminals he never came back. as if losing one murderer isn't enough they've lost dozens yet Dukakis continues to defend this program. now look what this program has brought you, the taxpayers of massachusttes (insert pics from the crime scene) is this the kind of law enforcement you want in your country?

lucky wilbury
11-20-2004, 01:31 PM
double post

BigBadBrian
11-20-2004, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by ODShowtime
I don't think the depictions you posted were racist at all.



Ridiculous. If she were a Democrat you would be screaming bloody murder. Twit. :gulp:

Switch84
11-21-2004, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by Lou
Yeah and that's my point, that yes believe it or not Democrats are the racist ones here even though the perception is that Democrats are the "loving party." They are PISSED OFF that a black woman in a high position dares to be a Republican after all the Democratic party has "done" for blacks :rolleyes:

:( That's been my impression of the Democratic party of late, too. What's ironic is it was a Republican president and mindset that fought against slavery and the Dixie-crats were very pro-segregation. I'd have to re-read up on when the parties perceptions started switching.

Lou, the jumping the Democratic ship has already begun with some black people (my 'switch' began in junior high school. I broke off from the expected 'family party'.) Al Sharpton touched on it during his brief run for the White House, saying "Making photo-op appearances in black churches ain't enough! Our votes will NOT be taken for granted!"

The Hispanic population has surpassed the other non-white groups, so now they're being wooed for votes. This illegal alien amnesty proposal is indicative of how both parties will try to get support from 'special interest' groups.

It's dumb to use ethnicity to scrounge for votes, anyway! Appeal to folks on a level that affects ALL OF US; the economy, national security, jobs, health care, education, etc!

John Ashcroft
11-22-2004, 08:05 AM
Well, it's been about a week.

Anyone hear from the NAACP or the Congressional Black Caucus? Shouldn't the condemnations have already been issued?

Seshmeister
11-22-2004, 08:26 AM
I must be missing something here.

I don't see how the first two are racist.

Maybe it's just me missing US cultural references or something.

Nickdfresh
11-22-2004, 08:44 AM
Originally posted by John Ashcroft
Well, it's been about a week.

Anyone hear from the NAACP or the Congressional Black Caucus? Shouldn't the condemnations have already been issued?

You're John, let's both rectify the horrible situation of racism in America by supporting Affirmative Action! I had no idea you were genuinely supportive of the Civil Rights cause!

John Ashcroft
11-22-2004, 12:14 PM
You could've stopped with "I had no idea...".

Hell, you could even substitute "had" for "have".

Oh, and BTW, affirmative action breeds racism. You don't have to agree on solutions to agree there's a problem. Face it, the liberal solution to any given issue never actually works.

Nickdfresh
11-22-2004, 12:26 PM
You mean like deficit spending and military incompetence, oh waite, your wrong, George Bush is a "neoconservative." A code word for disasterous clueless hack.

Switch84
11-22-2004, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by John Ashcroft
You could've stopped with "I had no idea...".

Hell, you could even substitute "had" for "have".

Oh, and BTW, affirmative action breeds racism. You don't have to agree on solutions to agree there's a problem. Face it, the liberal solution to any given issue never actually works.


:D Pay Darling Nikki no mind, John. He has a hard-on for Affirmative Action. The very fact that he repetitively brings that up and challenges anything (or anyone) looking to eradicate the injustices of our country's shameful slave-owning past shows the point you made about 'breeding racism'.

Nickdfresh
11-22-2004, 12:31 PM
Or politcal cartoons. Has Condi recovered yet?

Seshmeister
11-22-2004, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by John Ashcroft


Oh, and BTW, affirmative action breeds racism.

Yeah I'm afraid that's true in a lot of cases.

There are better ways to reduce inequality like fixing the school where they get the poor grades rather than lowering their college entry requirements because they went there.

If that makes sense...:)

Switch84
11-22-2004, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Or politcal cartoons. Has Condi recovered yet?


:D You're sooo easy to play, Darling Nikki! Keep hating on Dr. Rice. She's STILL our Secretary of State nominee whether you like it or not.

Now snap to it on posting your bootyshots, DAMN IT!!!!! That's an ORDER!

Switch84
11-22-2004, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
Yeah I'm afraid that's true in a lot of cases.

There are better ways to reduce inequality like fixing the school where they get the poor grades rather than lowering their college entry requirements because they went there.

If that makes sense...:)


:D Makes sense to me! I've been saying that for years!

Nickdfresh
11-22-2004, 12:56 PM
No "conservatives" like Ashcroft believe in a one nation two state system where fundamental inequalities start with inner-city schools receiving drastically lower funding than suburban white schools. Then those inner city kids can be kept poor and uneducated forever! Yeah!

Of course the thin veneer of their bullshit hypocritical views and double standards falls off when we talk about defense spending. Try making the same arguments for the military that "conservatives" make for schools.

ex. "Underperforming fighter squadrons suffering from maintenance failures as a result of a spare parts shortage shouldn't get more money, they should be closed down or the pilots should be fired."

"It's the soldiers fault that they are running out of ammunition in combat (which is actually sort of true in Iraq), they should learn to fire at the enemy less in combat."

It's a bunch of horseshit! We can raise money for the military because apparently money matters when it comes to the quality of weapon systems. And all I hear is bitching and moaning about how defense spending during the Clinton Administration was too low. But apparently money plays no part in the quality of education.

Switch84
11-22-2004, 01:04 PM
:confused: This may be over-simplifying the issue, but why can't school vouchers be implicated across the board? If public schools are failing, why make the kids suffer from it? The parents should be able to pick and choose which schools best deserve their taxpayers dollars.

Nickdfresh
11-22-2004, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by Switch84
:confused: This may be over-simplifying the issue, but why can't school vouchers be implicated across the board? If public schools are failing, why make the kids suffer from it? The parents should be able to pick and choose which schools best deserve their taxpayers dollars.

I'm not saying that's a bad idea, but recent research has shown that corporate "charter" schools have the exact same problems as public schools. The money to performance ratio is exactly the same. While I am not disputing that a lot of factors such as bad parenting and social problems arising from crimes and drugs are real problems, the main problem is and has always been insufficient funding based on the local tax base issue.

I'll be the first to decry Affirmative Action when the same amount of money is spent to educate each and every child in this country through 12th grade! Republican "family values" my ass!

For more information, read Jonathan Kozol's landmark book and research on the subject! "Savage Inequalities" http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060974990/qid=1101147428/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/104-0988670-4485566

Switch84
11-22-2004, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I'm not saying that's a bad idea, but recent research has shown that corporate "charter" schools have the exact same problems as public schools. The money to performance ratio is exactly the same. While I am not disputing that a lot of factors such as bad parenting and social problems arising from crimes and drugs are real problems, the main problem is and has always been insufficient funding based on the local tax base issue.

I'll be the first to decry Affirmative Action when the same amount of money is spent to educate each and every child in this country through 12th grade! Republican "family values" my ass!

For more information, read Jonathan Kozol's landmark book and research on the subject! "Savage Inequalities" http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060974990/qid=1101147428/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/104-0988670-4485566




:) Cool! I'll check that out.

John Ashcroft
11-22-2004, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
No "conservatives" like Ashcroft believe in a one nation two state system where fundamental inequalities start with inner-city schools receiving drastically lower funding than suburban white schools. Then those inner city kids can be kept poor and uneducated forever! Yeah!

Of course the thin veneer of their bullshit hypocritical views and double standards falls off when we talk about defense spending. Try making the same arguments for the military that "conservatives" make for schools.

ex. "Underperforming fighter squadrons suffering from maintenance failures as a result of a spare parts shortage shouldn't get more money, they should be closed down or the pilots should be fired."

"It's the soldiers fault that they are running out of ammunition in combat (which is actually sort of true in Iraq), they should learn to fire at the enemy less in combat."

It's a bunch of horseshit! We can raise money for the military because apparently money matters when it comes to the quality of weapon systems. And all I hear is bitching and moaning about how defense spending during the Clinton Administration was too low. But apparently money plays no part in the quality of education.

And I stand by my assessment. You have no fucking clue.

You have no fucking clue as to just what I believe, or apparently what any other Conservative believes. Like Switch said, who's the party pushing vouchers? Certainly not liberals. In fact, it's your party that benefits most by keeping a certain voting block illiterate. Your party has blocked every attempt to change the miserably failing status quo in your pet social programs. It's Republicans like John Engler that come up with solutions to the mess your politicians have created. In fact, when's the last time you heard a "solution" from politicians from your side of the aisle that didn't include massive bureaucratic control over the lives of private individuals? Go on, list just one.

You see, the problem with you libs is you're much more interested in "process" rather than actual "results". You feel so much better about yourselves when you institute a "process" to deal with social inequities. If the results don't materialize, it's always because there's simply "not enough money" thrown at it. Problem is, your handout philosophy is destructive, counter productive, and counter to human nature. Your party is perfectly contempt in enslaving generations of people to your "process", just so long as they vote for the "right" people every couple of years. Don't believe me? Look at the behavior your party displays towards successfull African Americans who've had the outright gall to make it on thier own. Can't have the Black folk off the plantation, right? In fact, I seem to remember a certain memo from the Judiciary Committee illustrating the party's true feelings towards minority advancement.

Have you heard of it?

Nickdfresh
11-22-2004, 03:44 PM
What results? Test scores? Is that how you measure results? No Ash, you have no fucking clue! Some of us have experience of what goes on behind the scenes and little of it has to do with the knee jerk bullshit you just spouted off. Results! Ha! I've seen teachers and administrators outright lie about their results! The American educational system is fucked up, and only more so due to with More Children Left Behind! Basically, it's about the money stupid! And whatever you say different, and believe me I've read quite a bit on this, is complete and utter bullshit designed to by either by intention or accident to maintain the status quo class strata. It comes down to one thing Ash, how much you spend on each child's education. But give em' more tests that can be altered or dumbed down like W. likes. It's no wonder our economy is in decline while the deficit is soaring!

Try reading Kozol, and then give me your assessment! By the way, you could try the library, that way you won't have to pay for it and bitch about buying "liberal propaganda."

Switch84
11-22-2004, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by Switch84
:confused: This may be over-simplifying the issue, but why can't school vouchers be IMPLEMENTED across the board? If public schools are failing, why make the kids suffer from it? The parents should be able to pick and choose which schools best deserve their taxpayers dollars.


:o That's better! LOL!

John Ashcroft
11-22-2004, 07:59 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Basically, it's about the money stupid! And whatever you say different, and believe me I've read quite a bit on this, is complete and utter bullshit designed to by either by intention or accident to maintain the status quo class strata. It comes down to one thing Ash, how much you spend on each child's education.

OK, you asked for it...

U.S. tops in education spending, but not scores

WASHINGTON -- The United States spends more public and private money on education than other major countries, but its performance doesn't measure up in areas ranging from high-school graduation rates to test scores in math, reading and science, a new report shows.

"There are countries which don't get the bang for the bucks, and the U.S. is one of them," said Barry McGaw, education director for the Paris-based Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which produced the annual review of industrialized nations.

The United States spent $10,240 per student from elementary school through college in 2000, according to the report. The average was $6,361 among more than 25 nations.

How much is enough you fucking moron???? It's not "the money" stupid. It's your fucking liberal system controlled by the teacher's union that's the problem! It's the fact that teachers can't pass a simple fucking competency test, but instead of firing the teachers, the union has the test thrown out!!!!! Are you really this fucking stupid?

The range stretched from less than $3,000 per student in Turkey, Mexico, the Slovak Republic and Poland to more than $8,000 per student in Denmark, Norway, Austria and Switzerland.

Gee, we outspend some of the best educational systems in Europe... Imagine that. And yet we still rank low. What gives Nick?

The report cited Australia, Finland, Ireland, Korea and the United Kingdom as examples of OECD nations that have moderate spending on primary and lower secondary education but high levels of performance by 15-year-olds in key subject areas.

As for the United States, it finished in the middle of the pack in its 15-year-olds' performance on math, reading and science in 2000, and its high-school graduation rate was below the international average in 2001 -- figures highlighted by Education Secretary Rod Paige.

The country fared better in reading literacy among fourth-graders, where it finished among the top scorers in 2001. But the declining performance as students grow older served as a warning to the nation, Paige said.

But at least the sex-ed courses are up and running, right?

"These results highlight an extremely important truth about our educational system: I think we have become complacent, self-satisfied and often lacking the will to do better," Paige said.

Appropriate spending has emerged as a key political issue this year as the nation's schools deal with federal reforms. The No Child Left Behind law demands better performance from students and teachers, particularly in low-income districts, but critics say Republican leaders in Congress have spent too little on the effort.

The report, released Tuesday, sets international benchmarks and identifies areas for improvement.

Based on educational level, the report says the United States spends the most on higher education for every student and is a leading spender on primary and secondary education.

I simply must repeat this...

Based on educational level, the report says the United States spends the most on higher education for every student and is a leading spender on primary and secondary education.

Paige said the nation must fill the gap between it and other countries, and bridge another between students succeeding in American public schools and those falling behind. Within that promising fourth-grade reading showing in the United States, Paige said, is a revealing number: the higher the percentage of poor students, the lower the average score.

"There's no such thing as a 'typical' fourth-grader," Paige said. "We want to go to each fourth-grader. We need to see who needs the help."

The new federal law requires states to chart adequate yearly progress -- not just for a school's overall population, but for groups such as minorities and students who speak little English. Sanctions grow by the year for schools receiving low-income aid that don't improve enough. Consequences range from letting students transfer to a better school within their districts to handing control of a poor-performing school to the state.

"No other country is imposing such a rigorous requirement on its schools," McGaw said.

But from school boards to Congress, growing numbers of leaders say the federal government isn't committing enough money to the task. States must, for example, expand their standardized testing and put a highly qualified teacher in every core class by 2005-06.

Federal education spending has grown by $11 billion since President Bush took office, Paige said, but that includes spending beyond the first 12 grades. Even increased money for elementary and secondary education doesn't cover the law's sweeping expenses, said David Shreve of the National Conference of State Legislatures.

"You can't just mandate that things happen and then not follow up with the resources to make it happen," said Shreve, senior director for the conference's education committee.

Comparisons of spending among countries is difficult, he added, because the systems vary widely.

Note: the link is here (http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/0903/16reportcard.html?urac=n&urvf=10638335083190.0426094609284442) , but you have to register to read (it's free).

Ally_Kat
11-22-2004, 09:13 PM
Disclaimer -- I'm telling the NY pov. I realize other states have different certificate procedures, yada, yada, yada.



Originally posted by John Ashcroft

It's the fact that teachers can't pass a simple fucking competency test, but instead of firing the teachers, the union has the test thrown out!!!!!



Let's start even before that. Let's start when someone decides to become a teacher.

Here in NYC, as I'm sure in the majority of places across the US, there is a very visible teacher shortage. So bad that there's a program in place for people who just graduated college and career-changers. If you are willing to teach at whatever high-need school they place you at, anyone can become a teacher, granted they get the masters and pass the license tests.

The deal is so sweet that the state will not only pay for you to get the masters, but while you do it, you will be given a teaching job and paid. Sounds really nice isn't it?

There's close to a 90% dropout rate.

Why?

For people in the city, the colleges they send you to -- well, let's say that there are public high schools that are more efficient.

People either get frustrated because they are not learning how to handle the problems they are facing in these high-need areas they are assigned to, or they get frustrated because they are not passing some of those licensing tests dealing with shit they should be learning in those evening classes they are taking.

So then they drop out, and I've heard that those who do need to pay back the money spent on them.

And the shortage continues. Yay.

But yeah, everyone I know who's done and/or attempted that teaching fellowship program have some interesting horror stories.

John Ashcroft
11-22-2004, 09:23 PM
Gee Ally, so you're telling me that throwing money at the problem isn't working??? Say it isn't so!

rustoffa
11-22-2004, 10:39 PM
And then you have the snowballing popularity of home-schooling.

I have no problem with the premise, but it lends itself well to the polarized and paranoid views of fanatics and left-leaning wackos equally.

There's obviously no substitute for basic juvenile socialization.

From what I've seen of the local guidelines and accreditation requirements...It's a clusterfuck.

Ally_Kat
11-22-2004, 11:05 PM
Originally posted by John Ashcroft
Gee Ally, so you're telling me that throwing money at the problem isn't working??? Say it isn't so!

eh...more like if you are going to offer that for someone who wants to teach, at least be able to send them to a place that'll teach them. Which I don't understand. They are all CUNY schools that the city sends you to, and thus the same tuition. Why put all these people at the one that's crappy?

BigBadBrian
11-22-2004, 11:11 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Or politcal cartoons. Has Condi recovered yet?

I'm sure the racist tirades from the Left aren't over yet. :gulp:

freak
11-22-2004, 11:15 PM
She's a non-Democrat black woman holding a powerful office. They will do whatever it takes to paint her as an "Uncle Tom" sell-out simply for that reason.

Her being there makes it terribly difficult to play the "Racist Republican oppressor of women" card.

The race baiting vitreol hasn't even started yet....Just wait until she runs for president...and wins. :)

Ally_Kat
11-22-2004, 11:21 PM
Wis. Radio Host Apologizes for Rice Remark

2 hours, 5 minutes ago

By JR ROSS, Associated Press Writer

MADISON, Wis. - A radio host apologized Monday for calling secretary of state nominee Condoleezza Rice "Aunt Jemima," but refused to back down from his criticism that she is a "black trophy" of the Bush administration.


John "Sly" Sylvester, the program director and morning personality on WTDY-AM, wrote a letter of apology to local newspapers.


"I'm concerned that I have offended many African-Americans by using a crass term to describe an incompetent, dishonest political appointee of the Bush administration. I apologize," wrote Sylvester, who is white.


Sylvester wrote he would not, however, apologize for criticizing Rice, saying "she has allowed herself to be used as a black trophy by an administration."


Sylvester used the term on last Wednesday's show to describe Rice and other blacks as having only a subservient role in the Bush administration. He also referred to Secretary of State Colin Powell as an "Uncle Tom" — a contemptuous term for a black whose behavior toward whites is regarded as fawning or servile.


He fanned the flames two days later by issuing an apology to the fictional Aunt Jemima. Sylvester has been sharply criticized by civic and civil rights leaders; NAACP president Kweisi Mfume said the attacks on Rice "are just as bad as those who hide under sheets and burn crosses."


The flap comes less than three weeks after conservative Milwaukee radio show host Mark Belling's refered to undocumented Mexican immigrants as "wetbacks." Belling was taken off the air for a week.


Mid-West Family Broadcasting's general manager, Tom Walker, said there are no plans to discipline Sylvester, and that the radio host issued the apology on his own. "I don't agree with his comments and I don't like them," Walker said.

BigBadBrian
11-22-2004, 11:28 PM
Originally posted by Ally_Kat
NAACP president Kweisi Mfume said the attacks on Rice "are just as bad as those who hide under sheets and burn crosses."




Jesse?

Switch84
11-23-2004, 12:27 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Jesse?


:confused: Jackson? In a sense, he burned a cross (his religious convictions) while wearing a sheet (in his mistress' bed); cheating on his wife and sireing a child outside of his marriage.

John Ashcroft
11-23-2004, 08:08 AM
Don't forget the paying of tax-free hush money to his playmate...