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What Became of Conservatives?
by Paul Craig Roberts
I remember when friends would excitedly telephone to report that Rush Limbaugh or G. Gordon Liddy had just read one of my syndicated columns over the air. That was before I became a critic of the US invasion of Iraq, the Bush administration, and the neoconservative ideologues who have seized control of the US government.
America has blundered into a needless and dangerous war, and fully half of the country’s population is enthusiastic. Many Christians think that war in the Middle East signals "end times" and that they are about to be wafted up to heaven. Many patriots think that, finally, America is standing up for itself and demonstrating its righteous might. Conservatives are taking out their Vietnam frustrations on Iraqis. Karl Rove is wrapping Bush in the protective cloak of war leader. The military-industrial complex is drooling over the profits of war. And neoconservatives are laying the groundwork for Israeli territorial expansion.
The evening before Thanksgiving Rush Limbaugh was on C-Span TV explaining that these glorious developments would have been impossible if talk radio and the conservative movement had not combined to break the power of the liberal media.
In the Thanksgiving issue of National Review, editor Richard Lowry and former editor John O’Sullivan celebrate Bush’s reelection triumph over "a hostile press corps." "Try as they might," crowed O’Sullivan, "they couldn’t put Kerry over the top."
There was a time when I could rant about the "liberal media" with the best of them. But in recent years I have puzzled over the precise location of the "liberal media."
Not so long ago I would have identified the liberal media as the New York Times and Washington Post, CNN and the three TV networks, and National Public Radio. But both the Times and the Post fell for the Bush administration’s lies about WMD and supported the US invasion of Iraq. On balance CNN, the networks, and NPR have not made an issue of the Bush administration’s changing explanations for the invasion.
Apparently, Rush Limbaugh and National Review think there is a liberal media because the prison torture scandal could not be suppressed and a cameraman filmed the execution of a wounded Iraqi prisoner by a US Marine.
Do the Village Voice and The Nation comprise the "liberal media"? The Village Voice is known for Nat Henthof and his columns on civil liberties. Every good conservative believes that civil liberties are liberal because they interfere with the police and let criminals go free. The Nation favors spending on the poor and disfavors gun rights, but I don’t see the "liberal hate" in The Nation’s feeble pages that Rush Limbaugh was denouncing on C-Span.
In the ranks of the new conservatives, however, I see and experience much hate. It comes to me in violently worded, ignorant and irrational emails from self-professed conservatives who literally worship George Bush. Even Christians have fallen into idolatry. There appears to be a large number of Americans who are prepared to kill anyone for George Bush.
The Iraqi War is serving as a great catharsis for multiple conservative frustrations: job loss, drugs, crime, homosexuals, pornography, female promiscuity, abortion, restrictions on prayer in public places, Darwinism and attacks on religion. Liberals are the cause. Liberals are against America. Anyone against the war is against America and is a liberal. "You are with us or against us."
This is the mindset of delusion, and delusion permits of no facts or analysis. Blind emotion rules. Americans are right and everyone else is wrong. End of the debate.
That, gentle reader, is the full extent of talk radio, Fox News, the Wall Street Journal Editorial page, National Review, the Weekly Standard, and, indeed, of the entire concentrated corporate media where noncontroversy in the interest of advertising revenue rules.
Once upon a time there was a liberal media. It developed out of the Great Depression and the New Deal. Liberals believed that the private sector is the source of greed that must be restrained by government acting in the public interest. The liberals’ mistake was to identify morality with government. Liberals had great suspicion of private power and insufficient suspicion of the power and inclination of government to do good.
Liberals became Benthamites (after Jeremy Bentham). They believed that as the people controlled government through democracy, there was no reason to fear government power, which should be increased in order to accomplish more good.
The conservative movement that I grew up in did not share the liberals’ abiding faith in government. "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."
Today it is liberals, not conservatives, who endeavor to defend civil liberties from the state. Conservatives have been won around to the old liberal view that as long as government power is in their hands, there is no reason to fear it or to limit it. Thus, the Patriot Act, which permits government to suspend a person’s civil liberty by calling him a terrorist with or without proof.
Thus, preemptive war, which permits the President to invade other countries based on unverified assertions.
There is nothing conservative about these positions. To label them conservative is to make the same error as labeling the 1930s German Brownshirts conservative.
American liberals called the Brownshirts "conservative," because the Brownshirts were obviously not liberal. They were ignorant, violent, delusional, and they worshipped a man of no known distinction. Brownshirts’ delusions were protected by an emotional force field. Adulation of power and force prevented Brownshirts from recognizing implications for their country of their reckless doctrines.
Like Brownshirts, the new conservatives take personally any criticism of their leader and his policies. To be a critic is to be an enemy. I went overnight from being an object of conservative adulation to one of derision when I wrote that the US invasion of Iraq was a "strategic blunder."
It is amazing that only a short time ago the Bush administration and its supporters believed that all the US had to do was to appear in Iraq and we would be greeted with flowers. Has there ever been a greater example of delusion? Isn’t this on a par with the Children’s Crusade against the Saracens in the Middle Ages?
Delusion is still the defining characteristic of the Bush administration. We have smashed Fallujah, a city of 300,000, only to discover that the 10,000 US Marines are bogged down in the ruins of the city. If the Marines leave, the "defeated" insurgents will return. Meanwhile the insurgents have moved on to destabilize Mosul, a city five times as large. Thus, the call for more US troops.
There are no more troops. Our former allies are not going to send troops. The only way the Bush administration can continue with its Iraq policy is to reinstate the draft.
When the draft is reinstated, conservatives will loudly proclaim their pride that their sons, fathers, husbands and brothers are going to die for "our freedom." Not a single one of them will be able to explain why destroying Iraqi cities and occupying the ruins are necessary for "our freedom." But this inability will not lessen the enthusiasm for the project. To protect their delusions from "reality-based" critics, they will demand that the critics be arrested for treason and silenced. Many encouraged by talk radio already speak this way.
Because of the triumph of delusional "new conservatives" and the demise of the liberal media, this war is different from the Vietnam war. As more Americans are killed and maimed in the pointless carnage, more Americans have a powerful emotional stake that the war not be lost and not be in vain. Trapped in violence and unable to admit mistake, a reckless administration will escalate.
The rapidly collapsing US dollar is hard evidence that the world sees the US as bankrupt. Flight from the dollar as the reserve currency will adversely impact American living standards, which are already falling as a result of job outsourcing and offshore production. The US cannot afford a costly and interminable war.
Falling living standards and inability to impose our will on the Middle East will result in great frustrations that will diminish our country.
November 26, 2004
Dr. Roberts [send him mail] is John M. Olin Fellow at the Institute for Political Economy and Research Fellow at the Independent Institute. He is a former associate editor of the Wall Street Journal, former contributing editor for National Review, and a former assistant secretary of the U.S. Treasury. He is the co-author of The Tyranny of Good Intentions.
Copyright © 2004 Creators Syndicate
link (http://www.lewrockwell.com/roberts/roberts81.html)
Big Train
11-29-2004, 06:22 PM
Credibility Alert #1:
I remember when friends would excitedly telephone to report that Rush Limbaugh or G. Gordon Liddy had just read one of my syndicated columns over the air. That was before I became a critic of the US invasion of Iraq, the Bush administration, and the neoconservative ideologues who have seized control of the US government.
WHAAAAAAAAAAAA>..
Credibility alert #2:
The Nation favors spending on the poor and disfavors gun rights, but I don’t see the "liberal hate" in The Nation’s feeble pages that Rush Limbaugh was denouncing on C-Span.
This guy is YOUR Zell Miller. Tit for tat, right?
He raises questions without framing them in the right context, which is why nobody is paying attention to him...whaaaaaa.
Pink Spider
11-29-2004, 06:29 PM
I don't think he challenged anyone to a duel.
Lewrockwell.com isn't exactly Democrat headquarters either.
Nickdfresh
11-29-2004, 06:36 PM
Like Brownshirts, the new conservatives take personally any criticism of their leader and his policies. To be a critic is to be an enemy. I went overnight from being an object of conservative adulation to one of derision when I wrote that the US invasion of Iraq was a "strategic blunder."
By the way, Ernst Rohm, the leader of the Brown Shirts was a notorious homosexual. But I bet if you asked him, he would have told you how much he hates fags and thinks they should add a. amendment to the Constitution.
Big Train
11-29-2004, 07:09 PM
No duels...yet.
I just think the level of hysteria and stupid comparisons in the country is just off the charts nowadays. I don't care WHO is doing the talking.
Pink Spider
11-29-2004, 07:19 PM
I'm surprised that there isn't more hysteria from conservatives. The Patriot Act, wanting to amend the constitution, out of control spending (blame congress also), and declaring war on something that's unwinable isn't just spilled milk. It's very serious business.
Big Train
11-29-2004, 07:27 PM
Well as a conservative,
*The Patriot Act doesn't bother me, as I have yet to see where any abuses have happened or a REAL reason to be upset about it in general. If it works, let them do their job.
*The budget is an across the board issue both side of the aisle need to tackle. Wars require money period.
*Unwinnable? I don't know about that, but it isn't gonna be an instant gratification war like the last few we have been involved in, so let's be a little more realistic.
I agree, it is all serious business, but hysteria is as useless as complaining when it comes to solving problems.
Pink Spider
11-29-2004, 07:42 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
Well as a conservative,
[b]*The Patriot Act doesn't bother me, as I have yet to see where any abuses have happened or a REAL reason to be upset about it in general. If it works, let them do their job.
Just because something works doesn't mean it's acceptable. Sidestepping the 4th amendment is not acceptable. It could catch a million "criminals" and it still would not be acceptable.
*The budget is an across the board issue both side of the aisle need to tackle. Wars require money period.
Empire requires money. Defending your country costs as much as firearm.
*Unwinnable? I don't know about that, but it isn't gonna be an instant gratification war like the last few we have been involved in, so let's be a little more realistic.
A war against an ideology can never be won. Period. It would have been more sensible to declare a "war on Al-Quada", but then there goes the excuse for Iraq.
I agree, it is all serious business, but hysteria is as useless as complaining when it comes to solving problems.
Calling it "hysteria" is a cop out against reasonable arguments. "Complaining" or educating is everyone's right.
Big Train
11-29-2004, 08:08 PM
Well then we are down to just your interpretation of sidestepping the 4th amendment. The majority of the people in the country seem to have no problem with it and it if works, it works.
Empire is another example of hysteria that again has little basis in fact. Calling it that is not a cop out. In fact, if someone could give me a logical argument to start with, I'd be more than happy to engage in conversation.
A war against ideology HAS to be won. Otherwise, we all (you first..ha ha) ought to shoot ourselves in the head. We tried to stay out of this region for forever because of this and they would not stop (OBL particularly) until we were drawn in. This is what they want. There is no isolationist option anymore, don't kid yourself.
Pink Spider
11-29-2004, 08:25 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
Well then we are down to just your interpretation of sidestepping the 4th amendment. The majority of the people in the country seem to have no problem with it and it if works, it works.
They also think that Saddam planned 9/11 and believe in angels.
I will take the "interpretation" of a few people educated on a subject over the majority any day.
Empire is another example of hysteria that again has little basis in fact. Calling it that is not a cop out. In fact, if someone could give me a logical argument to start with, I'd be more than happy to engage in conversation.
A third world dicatorship being a threat to the US is not logical. Taking the oil under Iraq is logical.
A war against ideology HAS to be won. Otherwise, we all (you first..ha ha) ought to shoot ourselves in the head. We tried to stay out of this region for forever because of this and they would not stop (OBL particularly) until we were drawn in. This is what they want. There is no isolationist option anymore, don't kid yourself.
It can't be won. You can't get rid of an idea without killing everyone on the planet.
We tried to stay out? Pass the ganja. :D
Big Train
11-29-2004, 08:36 PM
Educated? Can you please turn the elitism down, say 30-50%?? Because we all see the same info and some of us (well, most of us) disagree with you, means we are uneducated. Hold onto the ganja..your gonna need it.
A third world region being a threat, this particular country leading the way. The "No blood for oil" argument is fuckin weak, tired and vague at best. But your educated and "knew that" already.
It can't be won? Where are you planning on hiding then? I think Phil has a space in his bunker...
Nickdfresh
11-29-2004, 08:50 PM
When polls show the majority of Americans believe that Saddam was behind 9/11, the American people have been inundated with propaganda. They are miseducated by Orwellian double speak!
But taking a brief survey of pop culture, I would have to say something is wrong in this country. It seems most people choose to spend their time watching crap like Survivor and are more worried about who they should vote for on American Idol than reading any sort of news publication, I would say that yes by and large the people are uneducated.
Nickdfresh
11-29-2004, 08:52 PM
Are both Ford AND Jesus Christ in the Forum at the same time?
Big Train
11-29-2004, 08:57 PM
Again ...your interpretation.
HAGARSUKS
11-29-2004, 09:10 PM
Haaaahhhhhhhhhhhh!
Alright, we got another one man!
Eisenhower's son, now in his 80's, also is a conservative
who knows and sees the truth enough to switch sides.
Good job on well-written piece.
B-sides, Spammy wants to back up the Hannity-luvin'
Ted Spewwgent.
Seshmeister
11-29-2004, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
A war against ideology HAS to be won.
The idea that you can win a war against an ideology by bombing and locking up 1000s of people without a trial is absolutely ludicrous.
Big Train
11-29-2004, 09:21 PM
How it's won is up for debate, what isn't is the fact that it must be won.
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Are both Ford AND Jesus Christ in the Forum at the same time?
Well, if Jesus and His Dad can be in different places but be the same God, then why can't JC and I be in the same place?
Shit, now I'm even confused. It's been one of those Mondays :confused:
Nickdfresh
11-29-2004, 09:27 PM
After that Seattle game I understand.
Nickdfresh
11-29-2004, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
How it's won is up for debate, what isn't is the fact that it must be won.
Didn't Dubya even say it couldn't be won?
madraoul
11-29-2004, 09:57 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
A war against ideology HAS to be won. Otherwise, we all (you first..ha ha) ought to shoot ourselves in the head. We tried to stay out of this region for forever because of this and they would not stop (OBL particularly) until we were drawn in. This is what they want. There is no isolationist option anymore, don't kid yourself.
OBL was trained by us, so I guess we can do something right. If we are truly at war, then the isolationist route is the only option. Shouldn't we be hoarding gas, tin, or any metal out there until the war is won? Shouldn't our borders be secure? Why are we dealing with China? The last I heard, they were still communist. Isn't that bad? I know I spent eight years of my life in active duty military fighting that form of government. I thought we won. I guess I was wrong.
Warham
11-29-2004, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Didn't Dubya even say it couldn't be won?
Not the way a conventional war can be won, no.
madraoul
11-29-2004, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Not the way a conventional war can be won, no.
So, what's the plan?
Warham
11-29-2004, 10:09 PM
Bush thinks it's planting democracy in the Middle East.
madraoul
11-29-2004, 10:17 PM
Cool. Plant democracy in a place that has had it last....when...let's say never. I really appreciate that part of the world being the cradle of civilization and all, but we have to realize there are some parts of the world that aren't going to be westernized. Iraq is one. Personally, I'm not willing to destroy our lives to save them. Call me weird, but I still believe in America.
Warham
11-29-2004, 10:39 PM
Bush doesn't share your pessimistic attitude I guess.
Pink Spider
11-29-2004, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Bush thinks it's planting democracy in the Middle East.
I guess after digging it up, he has to do something with it.
madraoul
11-29-2004, 10:56 PM
Yeah, he's got that upper crust New England air about him. So maybe he can pull it off. I only hope now. The casualties in Iraq are mounting. 2nd best month of the war so far. What the hell, there's still a day left. Go for it! Let's break that record.
Nickdfresh
11-30-2004, 01:32 AM
Originally posted by Warham
Not the way a conventional war can be won, no.
Sounds like a flip flop!
Big Train
12-01-2004, 03:23 AM
First off, there is no isolationist option, either economically or militarily. They came at us before we fought back (Clinton) and they came at us when we did (Bush). They are here now and they are over there and they want you dead. Hoarding metal doesn't help shit.
Sesh, do you highlanders have any fucking better idea?
We have to engage them in their house, not ours, as much as possible. Planting the seeds of democracy is no easy task and not something you can easily quantify (as you libs seem to want to guage this war on). It is however the only way for true stability in the Middle East. Turkey is a good example of a moderate Islamic country run like a democracy. It CAN happen.
Not all of them are gonna get it and a lot will die. But it will pay off in the end.
DrMaddVibe
12-01-2004, 07:26 AM
Originally posted by Big Train
Well as a conservative,
*The Patriot Act doesn't bother me, as I have yet to see where any abuses have happened or a REAL reason to be upset about it in general. If it works, let them do their job.
*The budget is an across the board issue both side of the aisle need to tackle. Wars require money period.
*Unwinnable? I don't know about that, but it isn't gonna be an instant gratification war like the last few we have been involved in, so let's be a little more realistic.
I agree, it is all serious business, but hysteria is as useless as complaining when it comes to solving problems.
5 star vote for that one!:rockit2:
Seshmeister
12-01-2004, 08:41 AM
Originally posted by Big Train
*The Patriot Act doesn't bother me, as I have yet to see where any abuses have happened or a REAL reason to be upset about it in general. If it works, let them do their job.
In Germany they first came for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me —
and by that time no one was left to speak up.
Pastor Martin Niemöller
Nickdfresh
12-01-2004, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by Warham
Bush thinks it's planting democracy in the Middle East.
Brilliant!
"There's a godamned little American in every one of these gooks..."
-Stanley Kubrick's "Full Metal Jacket"
ODShowtime
12-01-2004, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by Big Train
We tried to stay out of this region for forever because of this and they would not stop (OBL particularly) until we were drawn in.
This is a completely false statement. We've been fucking around over there to keep those people down and keep those taps running for a century. This is well documented. If you truly believe this, it would explain why we disagree on so much.
This is what they want. There is no isolationist option anymore, don't kid yourself.
You may be right about this, but they don't really want us in the region at all (obviously). Al Qaeda likes how we're swatting at the beehive so we can arouse the angry swarm so it can protect itself, but it should be obvious they'd rather be on a higher branch where no one can reach them.
We don't have a fucking right to fuck over people for 100s of years to exploit their natural resources. I'm sorry, we don't and I am ashamed of what's been done in our name. If the oil power in this country could be weakened, the whole world would be better off.
ODShowtime
12-01-2004, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Brilliant!
"There's a godamned little American in every one of these gooks..."
-Stanley Kubrick's "Full Metal Jacket"
That qoute KICKS ASS!!!!
Big Train
12-01-2004, 01:21 PM
OD,
I do believe it and yes it is why we disagree. The "fucking people over for oil" bit is sort of a dumb statement, in that you would have to indict Europe (that's you sesh..btw thanks for the quaint poem-that you equate it with the patriot act shows how far from these shores you actually are) and Asia as well. The truth is those people's leaders fucked them over for hundreds of years. Didn't you see the palaces (plural) of decadence Saddam lived in when the rest of the country was in squalor? That wasn't the US doing that. Iraq and Afghanistan both SHOULD be modern countries doing well off their natural resources, but like many parts of the world have been poorly run by backwards leaders. The anger being directed at the US I feel is largely misdirected as it is easier to blame someone else than to look within.
Nickdfresh
12-01-2004, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
OD,
I do believe it and yes it is why we disagree. The "fucking people over for oil" bit is sort of a dumb statement, in that you would have to indict Europe (that's you sesh..btw thanks for the quaint poem-that you equate it with the patriot act shows how far from these shores you actually are) and Asia as well. The truth is those people's leaders fucked them over for hundreds of years. Didn't you see the palaces (plural) of decadence Saddam lived in when the rest of the country was in squalor? That wasn't the US doing that. Iraq and Afghanistan both SHOULD be modern countries doing well off their natural resources, but like many parts of the world have been poorly run by backwards leaders. The anger being directed at the US I feel is largely misdirected as it is easier to blame someone else than to look within.
Though it is not addressed to me, your point is well taken. Saddam deserves whatever he gets.
But my points, as I believe ODS's, are that we don't give a shit about the misery of other peoples unless we have some intrinsic motivation.
And as far as natural resources, ask Sesh how much he pays for a liter of gas in the UK, then convert it monetarily and to gallons, and you'll discover that Europe puts it's money where it's mouth is, to some extent anyways.
Big Train
12-01-2004, 01:51 PM
Not necessarily. How much of that money they pay is tax, which has nothing to do with what they bought it for, it's all government profit. And when leaders of those nations and of world orginzations are taking money (i.e. Intrinsic motivation) to look the other way, then the money is coming out of both sides of their mouth.
The point about not doing anything is all fine and well.However, the oil-for-food program was set up basically to help them, so I guess maybe your just a lil' bit wrong, sometimes we do it for shits and giggles. That the program was undermined for such a long time is what pisses me off. What we are trying to do there is give them a reason not to be fanatical and to live better lives, as our motivation is for them to stop attacking us.
Nickdfresh
12-01-2004, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
Not necessarily. How much of that money they pay is tax, which has nothing to do with what they bought it for, it's all government profit. And when leaders of those nations and of world orginzations are taking money (i.e. Intrinsic motivation) to look the other way, then the money is coming out of both sides of their mouth.
The point about not doing anything is all fine and well.However, the oil-for-food program was set up basically to help them, so I guess maybe your just a lil' bit wrong, sometimes we do it for shits and giggles. That the program was undermined for such a long time is what pisses me off. What we are trying to do there is give them a reason not to be fanatical and to live better lives, as our motivation is for them to stop attacking us.
Yes it is "government profit" that is designed to cut down on the conspicious consumption of natural resources.
Big Train
12-01-2004, 02:30 PM
Right, which proves your theory in one part and contradicts in another. The government profits, because nobody cares about others suffering unless they have an intrisic motivation. Correct.
"Putting their money where there mouth is" couldn't be more wrong. I know I'm being redundant, but it is worth it to prove a point. Europe didn't care about those people either,you could argue they were worse than we were, yet they aren't the focus of world's disgust, anger or hate. Being #1 has it's drawbacks.
DLR'sCock
12-01-2004, 03:27 PM
They?? Who are the nefarious "they"?????
Ahhh the racism, hate, "single-mindedness" and ignorance is so apparent....no wonder so many idiots voted for Bush, and people in this country have no conscience whatsoever about the tens of thousands of deaths of innocent....you might as well be holding a gun to a child's head and pulling the trigger yourself....
"Yourself" and "you" meaning the nefarious "you" and "yourself"....
Big Train
12-01-2004, 04:45 PM
Fucking whatever.....your so "above" it cock.....spare me.
I spelled out what I had to say very clearly. They being Europe and Asia. Nothing "nefarious" about it (although I give you points for use of the word).
HAGARSUKS
12-01-2004, 08:42 PM
WHO AND WHERE ARE THE TERRORISTS?
ARE THEY REALLY IN IRAQ?
Seshmeister
12-02-2004, 06:37 AM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
And as far as natural resources, ask Sesh how much he pays for a liter of gas in the UK, then convert it monetarily and to gallons, and you'll discover that Europe puts it's money where it's mouth is, to some extent anyways.
Last time I worked it out a few months ago it was about $6 a gallon.
BigBadBrian
12-02-2004, 08:06 AM
Originally posted by Big Train
Fucking whatever.....your so "above" it cock.....spare me.
I spelled out what I had to say very clearly. They being Europe and Asia. Nothing "nefarious" about it (although I give you points for use of the word).
Cock used the word "nefarious" twice in that post. He obviously learned a new word today. Sesame Street is improving. My personal "Cheers" to the people at the Television Workshop! :gulp:
Seshmeister
12-02-2004, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by HAGARSUKS
WHO AND WHERE ARE THE TERRORISTS?
ARE THEY REALLY IN IRAQ?
Nope we just call the Iraqis that because it makes us feel better.
I think there are some in Saudi Arabia.
Nickdfresh
12-02-2004, 08:21 AM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
Last time I worked it out a few months ago it was about $6 a gallon.
That's what I though. When I watch a show on PBS or the BBC America, the first thing I and most Americans are struck by is the noticeable difference in the size of the cars.
Seshmeister
12-02-2004, 08:50 AM
And our bigger penises obviously.:)
Nickdfresh
12-02-2004, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
And our bigger penises obviously.:)
Ha ha ha ha! People over hear bitch because gas is currently above $2 a gallon where I live anyways. I got into a mild argument with someone at work last spring because they had the gaul to cry and moan about gas prices when they drove an SUV.
HAGARSUKS
12-02-2004, 09:44 PM
Americans must really go a broad. Hey, take one with you, too! Last time I was in Ireland, Gas was in the high 2s and that was over 10 years ago. What Americans don't get is Europeans do a LOT LESS driving than we do and a LOT MORE walking. Top that with there's not much of anywhere to go anyway. AVERAGE Europeans have made great gains over the last 30 years while average Americans have made NONE. Work on FACTS people, FACTS. The guy spending $6 a gallon in England is still probably spending a lot less per year on gas than the same guy spending $2 over here. Last Year, Sandy Weil of Citicorps salary came out to $240,601.21 an hour, yet we can't get our Government to raise a wage beyond $5 an hour. WAKE THE FUCK UP!
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Sounds like a flip flop!
Speaking of flip-flops... the absolute saddest part about Kerry/Edwards losing the election was that John Edwards was going to win the war on terror. He knew how to win it. So shit, if John Fuckin' Edwards said it could be won, then dammit we're gonna win the muphukka!!! ;) But anymore. 'Cause they lost. And know we'll never know. So we're fucked.
Originally posted by HAGARSUKS
WHO AND WHERE ARE THE TERRORISTS?
ARE THEY REALLY IN IRAQ?
They're fuckin' EVERYWHERE, dude!!! Scattered and peppered throughout not only the Middle East, but Europe, Africa, Canada, Russia, and Jacksonville.
But not Iraq.
HAGARSUKS
12-05-2004, 10:12 AM
Yes, we are rockers first and arm chair politicians whatever. We've got some pro-Bush guys and gals on board here and I can dig that. And frankly, I'm not a Toby Keith fan. We've got dub for another 4 years. I congratulate the people who voted for him. Now....will you hold his feet to the fire like I'm sure all the people who didn't vote for him will? I was very disinfranchised with Clinton for supporting NAFTA and GATT. The lefties raised Cain but their elected officials did not. The 2000 election, I thought The dems deserved to lose. But, definately, and I say most definately, after this election, I believe it is the righties who are drinking the Kool Aid.
DLR'sCock
12-05-2004, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Cock used the word "nefarious" twice in that post. He obviously learned a new word today. Sesame Street is improving. My personal "Cheers" to the people at the Television Workshop! :gulp:
Yeah, your wife used it when she was blowing me when she was describing your true love for little boys...
:rolleyes:
btw your obsession with me is a tad bit concerning.....you really need a hobby....
DLR'sCock
12-05-2004, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by HAGARSUKS
Yes, we are rockers first and arm chair politicians whatever. We've got some pro-Bush guys and gals on board here and I can dig that. And frankly, I'm not a Toby Keith fan. We've got dub for another 4 years. I congratulate the people who voted for him. Now....will you hold his feet to the fire like I'm sure all the people who didn't vote for him will? I was very disinfranchised with Clinton for supporting NAFTA and GATT. The lefties raised Cain but their elected officials did not. The 2000 election, I thought The dems deserved to lose. But, definately, and I say most definately, after this election, I believe it is the righties who are drinking the Kool Aid.
Exactly, Clinton pissed me off with his support of Nafta and GATT, and nevermind the media reform in 1996 that has now ruined most all music on the radio....that god my CD player....and bvring on XM and sirius.....
Phil theStalker
12-05-2004, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by FORD
What Became of Conservatives?
by Paul Craig Roberts
I remember when friends would excitedly telephone to report that Rush Limbaugh or G. Gordon Liddy had just read one of my syndicated columns over the air. That was before I became a critic of the US invasion of Iraq, the Bush administration, and the neoconservative ideologues who have seized control of the US government.
link (http://www.lewrockwell.com/roberts/roberts81.html)
FORD, you and I know what's going on. Did any of the GW glee club read the whole thing?
The country is split. I'm not saying it. Kerry said it. Everybody knows it. We don't have to be told.
I pity the "foreign assests."
Where are they? Oh, some of them are in Bosnia right now. Russian soldiers who speak English with perfect Nebraska accents are bragging about how what they are doing now, confiscating weapons, check points, etc., is practice for what "we will be doing in America." They brag from their drunken night club tables in Bosnia.
Do you know how young you have to start teaching a child a language to get them to speak like that with a perfect Nebraska accent or any other language? They have to start before at the age of 12.
That means this plan (foreign troops or "assets" in America, i.e., the one world government) has been in effect for years in advance of these soldiers who are now occupying Yugoslavia and will be in America very soon. Sooner than you think.
It's later than you think.
GW glee club, your President and party will find a perfect pretext to have them come here. It would have happened if and/or when Kerry's elected, too. The office of the President of the United States can no longer defend the U.S. from a takeover for a one world government.
We all have to have "arms." Defending America will be up to the U.S. citizen who is armed when the "foreign assets" arrive.
Yep, they have Chinese and N. Koreans who speak English with perfect Nebraska accents, too. All to be used in America when the time comes in their plan.
This is going to be a real show for the UK. I don't know what's going to happen to you when America goes into civil war.
That's a good question.
What will happen to the UK "allies" when the U.S. falls to the need of "foreign assets" and into a civil war?
Will Germany and France combine to rule against the little island who needs and "follows" America?
Yep.
You're all so sad. Globally. I don't want a one world government. Who will enforce the laws? Police. A global police force - state!
Ally_Kat, post the law against the overthrow of the one world government. When a one world government is established they will have a law against the overthrow of the one world government state.
Please, little knowlegeable girl, post that law. I know you'll obey it. Your kind always do.
P
PS FORD, are you going to "obey" that "overthrow the one world government state law" when they make it? Y'know ya can't break the law, FORD.
/
Nickdfresh
12-05-2004, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by Phil theStalker
FORD, you and I know what's going on. Did any of the GW glee club read the whole thing?
The country is split. I'm not saying it. Kerry said it. Everybody knows it. We don't have to be told.
I pity the "foreign assests."
Where are they? Oh, some of them are in Bosnia right now. Russian soldiers who speak English with perfect Nebraska accents are bragging about how what they are doing now, confiscating weapons, check points, etc., is practice for what "we will be doing in America." They brag from their drunken night club tables in Bosnia.
Do you know how young you have to start teaching a child a language to get them to speak like that with a perfect Nebraska accent or any other language? They have to start before at the age of 12.
That means this plan (foreign troops or "assets" in America, i.e., the one world government) has been in effect for years in advance of these soldiers who are now occupying Yugoslavia and will be in America very soon. Sooner than you think.
It's later than you think.
GW glee club, your President and party will find a perfect pretext to have them come here. It would have happened if and/or when Kerry's elected, too. The office of the President of the United States can no longer defend the U.S. from a takeover for a one world government.
We all have to have "arms." Defending America will be up to the U.S. citizen who is armed when the "foreign assets" arrive.
Yep, they have Chinese and N. Koreans who speak English with perfect Nebraska accents, too. All to be used in America when the time comes in their plan.
This is going to be a real show for the UK. I don't know what's going to happen to you when America goes into civil war.
That's a good question.
What will happen to the UK "allies" when the U.S. falls to the need of "foreign assets" and into a civil war?
Will Germany and France combine to rule against the little island who needs and "follows" America?
Yep.
You're all so sad. Globally. I don't want a one world government. Who will enforce the laws? Police. A global police force - state!
Ally_Kat, post the law against the overthrow of the one world government. When a one world government is established they will have a law against the overthrow of the one world government state.
Please, little knowlegeable girl, post that law. I know you'll obey it. Your kind always do.
P
PS FORD, are you going to "obey" that "overthrow the one world government state law" when they make it? Y'know ya can't break the law, FORD.
/
Phil, I found the perfect web site for you (and many of the conservatives on this site as well)!
Phil theStalker
12-05-2004, 01:20 PM
Wouldn't you love to live in a check point, gunless police state like in Bosnia, Yugoslavia?
Do you people know that the largest uranium ore mines in Europe are located in the mountains of Yugoslavia?
Yes.
And where are the troops?
Right on top of the uranium.
Where are U.S. troops besides Bosnia?
Right on top of the oil.
I am a Star Beacon.
I know about the European mines through those mountains for centuries before investment went to America. People forgot about the metals mines. But not everybody has forgotten. The one world governmnet hasn't forgotten.
Especially since uranium is so important to global domination today for whoever controls the resources of the world, oil, uranium, fresh drinking water, etc..
Wealth and power from the ground.
They know about it if you don't.
This is more than culture shock.
They've succeeded in brainwashing you into thinking it's a fight over the site of a Serbian church locaction.
Do you see how easy it was for you to be brainwashed about what's happening in Yugoslavia?
It wasn't that easy for them to do it to you.
Look at all of the money and PROPAGANDA that was created daily and spoon feed to the people of the world from the organized corporate media machine, an arm of the one world governemt.
You think it's about a church. It's about uranium. And, the one world government troops are on top of it.
I hope I have unbrainwashed you from the "big lie" that the vicious fighting to the death was about the concern of the loaction of an ancient Serbian church.
How bad it gets all depends on how fast they ramp up their manifestaion on this earth, the jackboot on the face of humanity forever, their one world governemt.
It will be their government, not your's. But they will have really won if they can make you think it's your one world government, and they can make you plead and beg for it, just like their Kissinger said in his little speech you all know. "Americans will welcome UN troops."
So they say.
It's much, much later than you think.
P
Nickdfresh
12-05-2004, 01:25 PM
Did you enjoy the UN Black helicopter site Phil?
FYI Bosnia is no longer part of Yugoslavia. And Bosnia is hardly a "gunless" country.
Phil theStalker
12-05-2004, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Did you enjoy the UN Black helicopter site Phil?
FYI Bosnia is no longer part of Yugoslavia. And Bosnia is hardly a "gunless" country.
Exactly. I'll help you, you're lost...again! haha
Fallujah is loaded with guns, too.
Iraq is loaded with guns.
The world is loaded with guns. (loaded, no pun intended)
But, and here is the reason, the "useful idiots" they've always wanted to have guns have the guns, Osama, his friends, etc..
When I say "gunless" I mean GUNLESS CITIZEN.
Is that what you want to become?
Do you want to become a gunless citizen while the ones who move weapons to their "friends" like Osama, Iraq, and Israel, and so on have them?
If not then you'll have to practice to fight, because they're coming over to the U.S. with "guns" to take away the U.S. "CITIZENS" guns.
But America will still be "hardly" gunless.
The one world government will be in control of all the arms, not the U.S. citizen.
It will tried to be implemented after the next "incident."
Y'know, Kissinger said so. "Americans will welcome UN troops to help save them from an outside threat."
"Welcome"? I hardly think so. All that's PROPAGNDA.
It's months away before their, "foreign assets," get here in America.
You can sign a 40 month car loan today and before you pay it off the one world government will have "foreign assets" dying in America.
Well, you don't think they're going to be "living" here, do you?!
true dat
P
Phil theStalker
12-05-2004, 01:44 PM
Ally_Kat, John Ashcroft, and your "friends,
What's the life expectancy of a "foreign asset" on U.S. soil?
Yes, Ally_Kat, civil was IS coming.
And I'm not advocating it.
P
Phil theStalker
12-05-2004, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by Phil theStalker
Yes, Ally_Kat, civil was IS coming.
And I'm not advocating it.
That's a crime.
P
Phil theStalker
12-05-2004, 05:26 PM
Y'know, this 20 minute editing thing is stupid.
I want to correct it to, "civil war IS coming," but I can't.
fak
Who's the fakkin mod I've got t2o fuck t2o have this edit option sextended?
=PtS=
:spank:
Nickdfresh
12-05-2004, 06:47 PM
[i]Phil the Stalker[i]
It will be their government, not your's. But they will have really won if they can make you think it's your one world government, and they can make you plead and beg for it, just like their Kissinger said in his little speech you all know. "Americans will welcome UN troops."
Okay Phil, let's assume for a minute you are not completely deranged:
1. What uniforms will these UN troops wear?
2. What are their countries of origin?
3.What type of equipment will they have?
4. Why will the US Gov't want them here?
Phil theStalker
12-05-2004, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Okay Phil, let's assume for a minute you are not completely deranged:
1. What uniforms will these UN troops wear?
2. What are their countries of origin?
3.What type of equipment will they have?
4. Why will the US Gov't want them here? [/B]
1) They will wear the uniforms of their nation.
2) European and China
3) Urban warfare
4) For security in the U.S. while the American military is over extented over seas.
P
Nickdfresh
12-05-2004, 08:02 PM
Why not just draft as larger US Army? Why bring in UNers?
Phil theStalker
12-05-2004, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Why not just draft as larger US Army? Why bring in UNers?
This is only the start. This is the first group taken out of the country. There will be a draft. Draftees will be sent over seas in another group. That should do it for of age men for military service left in the country. Some draftees will stay in the U.S. with deferments and be expected to work with the "foreign assets" troops.
Fire in the hole.
Seshmeister
12-06-2004, 12:40 AM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Okay Phil, let's assume for a minute you are not completely deranged:
[/B]
:D
Phil theStalker
12-06-2004, 12:59 AM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
:D
HAY~@! He said, assume.
And you know wot da fak they say when you ass-u-me.
Now clear my name. I want total vindication.
I have homeowner's insurance and a good attorney.
P
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