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Bill Lumbergh
12-02-2004, 02:46 AM
The SF Chronicle is reporting that Yankees star Jason Giambi(who missed most of last season with a mysterious ailment) admitted using Human growth hormone, and "the clear" a designer steroid from 2001 to 2003. The steroids were provided by Bay Area trainer Greg Anderson. Can't say I'm shocked, since he came to spring training last year weighing about 50 lbs. Please no Barry Bonds mentions, I've still got my head buried in the sand on that subject(i'm a Giants fan).

Warham
12-02-2004, 06:37 AM
I'm not going to say Bonds used them, but doesn't he know Greg Anderson as well?

Warham
12-02-2004, 06:37 AM
Jason Giambi admitted to a federal grand jury he took steroids and human growth hormone in 2003, according to transcripts of testimony obtained by the San Francisco Chronicle and published in the newspaper's Thursday editions.


The New York Yankees slugger's admission in December 2003 contradicts denials he has made since then that he never took performance-enhancing drugs.


But in the testimony obtained by the Chronicle, the former American League MVP told the grand jury investigating the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative steroids case he used steroids obtained from Greg Anderson, the personal trainer for San Francisco Giants star Barry Bonds.



Jason Giambi was the AL MVP in 2000 with the Athletics.


Giambi did not implicate Bonds in his testimony; he pointed out that Anderson was secretive about who he was working for and what he was doing to help other professional athletes.


In the transcripts obtained by the Chronicle, Assistant U.S. Attorney Jeffrey Nedrow asked Giambi, "Did [Anderson] ever say, 'Don't be talking about getting stuff from me?' "


"That's what I mean by saying that he made it so, you know, private, that you know, 'Hey, don't say anything, don't talk about anything,' " Giambi told the grand jury. "You know, I assumed because he's Barry's trainer -- you know, Barry -- but he never said one time, 'This is what Barry's taking, this is what Barry's doing.' He never gave up another name that he was dealing with or doing anything with."


Bonds, a seven-time National League MVP, has denied using steroids and other performance-enhancing drugs.


Giambi's younger brother Jeremy, a former Oakland outfielder, also told the grand jury he injected banned drugs received from Anderson, the Chronicle reported.


Both Giambis said they had used steroids even earlier in their baseball careers. They were granted immunity from prosecution if they told the truth to the grand jury, but faced perjury charges if they did not.


Jason Giambi described to the grand jury how -- using syringes -- he injected human growth hormone into his stomach and testosterone into his buttocks.


Giambi called the products he obtained from Anderson "undetectable" steroids known as "the clear" and "the cream."


"The clear" is a liquid drug administered under the tongue a few drops at a time. "The cream" was described as a testosterone-based balm rubbed onto the body, the Chronicle reported.


Giambi said he obtained all the drugs -- and syringes -- except human growth hormone from Anderson. Giambi said he got the human growth hormone at a Gold's Gym in Las Vegas.


Giambi testified Anderson sent him several different drugs, including testosterone, "the cream" and "the clear." Giambi added Anderson gave him advice on the use of human growth hormone.


"Did Mr. Anderson provide you with actual injectable testosterone?" Assistant U.S. Attorney Nedrow asked Giambi.


"Yes," replied Giambi.


Then, in reference to an alleged steroid calendar from January 2003, Nedrow asked, "OK. And this injectable T, or testosterone, is basically a steroid, correct?"


"Yes," Giambi replied


"And did he talk to you about the fact it was a steroid at the time?" Nedrow asked.


"Yeah, I mean, I -- I don't know if we got into a conversation about it, but we both knew about it, yes," Giambi told the grand jury.


Giambi said Anderson described "the cream" and "the clear" as "an alternative to steroids, but it doesn't show on a steroid test.


"And he started talking about that it would raise your testosterone levels, you know, which would basically make it a steroid ... or maybe he said it's an alternative of taking an injectable steroid. That might be a better way to put it."


Bonds brought Anderson on a barnstorming players' tour of Japan after the big-league season in 2002. Giambi said it was on that November trip he met the trainer.


In his testimony, Giambi said he asked Anderson about the things Bonds was doing to stay at an elite level.


"So I started to ask him: 'Hey, what are the things you're doing with Barry? He's an incredible player. I want to still be able to work out at that age and keep playing,' " Giambi testified. "And that's how the conversation first started."


According to the transcripts obtained by the Chronicle, Giambi testified he called Anderson after their return from overseas and then flew to the San Francisco area in either late November or early December to meet at a gym down the street from BALCO in Burlingame, Calif.


Giambi said the two went to a hospital for Giambi to provide blood and urine samples, which were then taken to BALCO.


According to the transcripts obtained by the Chronicle, Giambi said he and Anderson then began discussing various performance-enhancing drugs Anderson could supply. Also, when Anderson received the results of Giambi's blood and urine tests, Anderson told him he had tested positive for Deca-Durobolin -- a steroid Giambi said he had obtained from the Las Vegas gym -- and that he should discontinue its use because it could stay in his system a long time.


Giambi said Anderson assured him the drugs he provided in baseball's offseason would be out of his system before Giambi was called for a steroid test.


Giambi, a four-time All-Star who played his first seven seasons in Oakland, has been unable to duplicate his 2000 MVP success in three seasons with the Yankees. Giambi signed a seven-year, $120 million contract with the Yankees after the 2001 season.


He played with a knee injury in 2003 and missed more than half the 2004 season with an intestinal parasite and a benign tumor that reportedly was on his pituitary gland. The unusual ailments led many to question whether they were steroid related, but Giambi continued to deny ever taking steroids.


The Chronicle also reported Giambi testified he helped his younger brother obtain drugs from Anderson.


Jeremy Giambi told the grand jury Anderson described "the clear" and "the cream" as undetectable "alternatives to steroids."


"For all I knew, it could have been baby lotion," Jeremy Giambi told the grand jury.

Nickdfresh
12-02-2004, 08:45 AM
Jason Giambi on steroids? Noooo....! Who next, Barry Bonds?! What fine role models. And those modern day records mean sooo much.

Va Beach VH Fan
12-02-2004, 09:02 AM
Just a matter of time....

I can't wait until the day when Bonds admits it.....

DLR7884
12-02-2004, 10:00 AM
Bonds won't admit it, and he shouldn't have to.

Blame baseball for their non existant drug policy.

I hate it when people get on Bonds' ass about this shit.

DLR&884
What about that fucking cromag Mark McGwire?

redblkwht
12-02-2004, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by DLR7884
Bonds won't admit it, and he shouldn't have to.

Blame baseball for their non existant drug policy.

I hate it when people get on Bonds' ass about this shit.

DLR&884
What about that fucking cromag Mark McGwire?

Im with ya there bro, but whos a worse Liar, Bonds or Pete Rose?
I think this papers gotta burst Barry to come out & fess up, finally.
Im also wondering why Giambi really missed most of last year
i think were missing the real reason.

DLR7884
12-02-2004, 10:44 AM
Giambi obviously did some physical damage to himself because of the steroids and testosterone.

I just hope he doesn't end up like Lyle Alzado.

How messed up is it that the Yankees cannot void his contract because of this? Yes, it's their fault that they overpaid for him, but the collective bargaining agreement protects the players too much when it comes to drugs.

There is no testing and even if you admit or come up positive, you still get paid.

Baseball is stupid for allowing this.

Don't be surprised if there is another strike or lockout for baseball when the current contract is up. I don't know when that is, but you can bet your ass that the drug policy will be the main issue in those discussions.

DLR7884
Mark my words.

Bob_R
12-02-2004, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by Va Beach VH Fan
Just a matter of time....

I can't wait until the day when Bonds admits it.....

And then he'll be another Pete Rose. And someone, probably Bonds, will claim it's racial.

DLR7884
12-02-2004, 10:54 AM
He won't admit it, he doesn't have to.

Again, why does Bonds take all the shit for this?

I don't remember a witch hunt like this when McGwire was knocking the snot out of the ball!

DLR7884
Fair is fair....by the way I'm a huge Bonds fan if you couldn't tell! :)

Bill Lumbergh
12-02-2004, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by Warham
I'm not going to say Bonds used them, but doesn't he know Greg Anderson as well?


They were childhood friends.

Bill Lumbergh
12-02-2004, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by DLR7884
He won't admit it, he doesn't have to.

Again, why does Bonds take all the shit for this?

I don't remember a witch hunt like this when McGwire was knocking the snot out of the ball!

DLR7884
Fair is fair....by the way I'm a huge Bonds fan if you couldn't tell! :)

Right one bro! Five stars from one Bonds fan to another......

Bill Lumbergh
12-02-2004, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Jason Giambi on steroids? Noooo....! Who next, Barry Bonds?! What fine role models. And those modern day records mean sooo much.

You're now out as a pen Admin...........

Warham
12-02-2004, 01:29 PM
Bonds takes shit because Hank Aaron and Babe Ruth never took steroids. That's why Barry Bonds takes shit.

Va Beach VH Fan
12-02-2004, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by DLR7884
He won't admit it, he doesn't have to.

Again, why does Bonds take all the shit for this?

I don't remember a witch hunt like this when McGwire was knocking the snot out of the ball!

DLR7884
Fair is fair....by the way I'm a huge Bonds fan if you couldn't tell! :)

He'll have to admit it eventually, there will be too much evidence against him, via Anderson and Conte.... They won't protect him to save their own asses ??

Why does Bonds take all this shit ?? Because I was there as a Pirates fan in 1986 when that cocksucker was 165 pounds soaking wet and batting leadoff.... Please, no weightlifting stories, I've heard them all by now....

Mark McGwire was taking Andro, a completely LEGAL supplement at the time.... It wasn't until AFTER then that andro was banned....

He did absolutely nothing wrong nor illegal.....He also had the integrity to admit he was taking andro after he broke the record.... Something Bonds, if he had his way, would take to his grave....

Mezro
12-02-2004, 02:31 PM
Who cares who takes what!

Most professional athletes, bodybuilders, celebrities and plenty of models all take enhancement products. So fucking what?

In a world where kids can get cigarettes, booze destroys lives, people sell their asses for a rock and half the population is hooked on caffeine we really need to prioritize our witch hunts.

Mezro...get back on the juice Jason because what is left of your career depends on it...

DLR7884
12-02-2004, 02:33 PM
Bonds takes shit because Hank Aaron and Babe Ruth never took steroids. That's why Barry Bonds takes shit.

How the hell do you know they didn't take steroids, or some kind of upper?

What a fucking ignorant statement.

DLR7884
Jesus Christ.

Va Beach VH Fan
12-02-2004, 04:23 PM
Forgot to mention also that Conte is on 20/20 tomorrow night...

ABC is hyping it up, saying he'll name names....

lucky wilbury
12-02-2004, 04:28 PM
vitor conte wrote pres bush and said he'll name names, give times that people took things, what they were and everything under the sun if bush pardons him

Warham
12-02-2004, 04:30 PM
The only juice the Babe was on was vodka, pal. There was no fucking steroids back then, except for maybe cattle.

Hank Aaron was about as clean as they come from my perspective.

Ignorant eh? Get your nose out of Bonds' ass and step back and take a look. You have three choices of who took steroids:

1. Babe Ruth. The guy had a beer gut most of his career from drinking. No CHANCE of steroids.

2. Hank Aaron. Ever see a picture of this guy in his prime? He looks like a 180 from day 1 to day 2000.

3. Barry Bonds. He was 165 soaken wet in 1986, as someone mentioned. Now he looks like a football linebacker.

Pictures in case you can't read:

http://www.iboston.org/assets/photos/ruth.gif
http://stadiumcrew.www8.50megs.com/siReplay/HankAaron3a.jpg
http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/features/2003/dec/steroids/bonds_140.jpg

Warham
12-02-2004, 04:37 PM
1986:http://www.chuckthomas.com/_bba8x1.jpg

2004:http://sportserver.nandomedia.com/ips_rich_content/73-winky.jpg

DLR7884
12-02-2004, 04:37 PM
Hank Aaron was about as clean as they come from my perspective.

Well, your perspective is all that matters to you I guess. I heard this same argument on the Dan Patrick show today.

It is ignorant to assume that just because Hank Aaron is considered "clean" that he wasn't taking something.

Like I said maybe it wasn't steroids, but it could have been some other performance enhancing substance.

I'm not saying he did, I'm sure he didn't. But it is ignorant to blatantly say he didn't, when you have no fucking clue.

Your little pictures don't prove a thing, by the way.

Just because someone is bigger doesn't mean that they are on the juice. Creatine and other powders and potions have become huge within the last 10 years or so. Christ, since the 1970's weightlifting has become a major way that players stay in shape in the offseason.

Ruth and Aaron didn't lift wieghts....and if they did, they sure as hell didn't do it as much as Bonds or any other player from this era.

DLR7884
Just pointing out again, that you can't make blanket statements about shit you know little/nothing about. ;)

Bill Lumbergh
12-02-2004, 04:43 PM
You cant win dude. Even if it was proven that Barry was always clean , they would respond with "Well he's a jerk who's bad for baseball". The anti Barry faction will never let go of the hate.

Warham
12-02-2004, 04:43 PM
I'm sure Derek Jeter lifts weights...

http://www.thejerseyspot.com/pics/derek-jeter-action.jpg

I'm sure Curt Schilling lifts weights...

http://www.allposters.com/IMAGES/PHOTOFILE/AACQ013.jpg

I'm sure Vladimir Guerrero lifts weights...

http://images.encarta.msn.com/xrefmedia/sharemed/targets/images/pho/0005b/0005bfd0.jpg

All great talents and none of these guys look like Bonds.

DLR7884
12-02-2004, 04:45 PM
Curt Schilling is a fat ass.

Vlad Guerroro is bigger than he used to be and he doesn't look like Bonds because he is from a 3rd world country.

DLR7884
He's lucky to have gotten as big as he is.! :)

DLR7884
12-02-2004, 04:46 PM
Warham--

You are a Sammy Sosa and/or Mark McGwire fan I bet.

DLR7884
I just know you are.

Warham
12-02-2004, 04:46 PM
Hey, but according to you, Schilling could be on uppers like Babe was!

DLR7884
12-02-2004, 04:49 PM
Well, dumbass.....you would think he was doped up in some manner this past October when he pitched despite having torn ligaments in his foot.

DLR7884
Think before you post next time....

Bill Lumbergh
12-02-2004, 04:50 PM
Ok 'Ham you win! Barry Bonds has absolutely NO talent! EVERYONE on roids hit 70 plus homers.........In fact he was on roids in when he was slimmer, they just werent taking effect yet............Mark McGwire never touched the juice..........Sammy Sosa NEVER used a corked bat except for that one time and it was an accident!!!! :rolleyes:

DLR7884
12-02-2004, 04:52 PM
LOL.

DLR7884
GIAMBI DID REALLY WELL ON STEROIDS TOO!!

Warham
12-02-2004, 04:54 PM
LMAO!

Hey I'm a Cubs fan, but I admit Sammy looks to be finally succumbing to the juice's effects. Look at the guy's batting average? .250 last year? He was batting .320 a couple years ago.
I'll admit when I believe the guys on my team are doing 'roids.
Sosa probably didn't use a corked bat much before that game. I think he was desperate to get a damn hit, and had to resort to that. If he took too much more juice, he might have looked like Arnold.

Bonds was a great player in Pittsburgh before he took the needle. I remember. He beat the Cubs quite a few times with a timely hit. He could have been a 400+ homer guy without the 'roids. Now he'll have 700+ and be remembered for the 'roids.

DLR7884
12-02-2004, 04:56 PM
As you know I'm a Bonds fan.

I think there is a chance he's on them, but then again, he may not be.

If he is, that's his business.

If he wants to die young and have balls the size of marbles, that's his problem.

DLR7884
I don't care.

Bill Lumbergh
12-02-2004, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by Warham
LMAO!

Hey I'm a Cubs fan, but I admit Sammy looks to be finally succumbing to the juice's effects. Look at the guy's batting average? .250 last year? He was batting .320 a couple years ago.
I'll admit when I believe the guys on my team are doing 'roids.
Sosa probably didn't use a corked bat much before that game. I think he was desperate to get a damn hit, and had to resort to that. If he took too much more juice, he might have looked like Arnold.

Bonds was a great player in Pittsburgh before he took the needle. I remember. He beat the Cubs quite a few times with a timely hit. He could have been a 400+ homer guy without the 'roids. Now he'll have 700+ and be remembered for the 'roids.

So you're saying he's been on the juice since 93'?

Warham
12-02-2004, 05:10 PM
Who? Sosa or Bonds?

I'd say both! :D

DLR7884
12-02-2004, 05:11 PM
Sosa can be on all the juice he wants.

DLR7884
He'll still swing at balls 3 feet out of the zone.

Warham
12-02-2004, 05:13 PM
That's the problem. A few years ago he didn't. He knew he could walk all the time if the guy didn't pitch it down the middle. He had like 120 walks a few years ago to go with those 60 homers and .320 batting average. Now, because he's breaking down, he tries harder to hit the 60 homers, which causes him to swing outside the zone, which causes his average to drop to .250.

DLR7884
12-02-2004, 05:17 PM
Yes, he's more of an asshole to Bonds, by the way.

DLR7884
Especially to his teammates.

Warham
12-02-2004, 05:28 PM
I'm actually glad they are trying to ship him out.

I'd rather the Cubs use that money to pay for some younger talent.

DLR7884
12-02-2004, 05:40 PM
Who's gonna take him with that big ass contract?

DLR7884
Maybe the Yankees with trade Giambi for Sosa.

Warham
12-02-2004, 05:43 PM
I was hoping the Mets would be stupid enough to.

DLR7884
12-02-2004, 05:52 PM
The may very well be that dumb.

DLR7884
Who would you want from their lineup?

Warham
12-02-2004, 05:54 PM
Somebody we can ditch soon. They don't have much. I definately don't want that pussy Piazza.

Nickdfresh
12-02-2004, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by Warham
The only juice the Babe was on was vodka, pal. There was no fucking steroids back then, except for maybe cattle.

Hank Aaron was about as clean as they come from my perspective.

Ignorant eh? Get your nose out of Bonds' ass and step back and take a look. You have three choices of who took steroids:

1. Babe Ruth. The guy had a beer gut most of his career from drinking. No CHANCE of steroids.

2. Hank Aaron. Ever see a picture of this guy in his prime? He looks like a 180 from day 1 to day 2000.

3. Barry Bonds. He was 165 soaken wet in 1986, as someone mentioned. Now he looks like a football linebacker.

Pictures in case you can't read:



I heard one of the Bambino's secrets was that he would eat 18 EGG OMELETS! It's a wonder his heart didn't explode, but all that protein probably boosted his testosterone levels, not to mention cholesterol levels!

Va Beach VH Fan
12-02-2004, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by Bill Lumbergh
You cant win dude. Even if it was proven that Barry was always clean , they would respond with "Well he's a jerk who's bad for baseball". The anti Barry faction will never let go of the hate.

Half right Bill, at least in my perspective....

If it's proven he never was on the roids, I'll be the first one to apologize right here, I might even start a new thread dammit !!!! ;)

But completely eliminating the roids from the equation for a second, Bonds has been, is, and always will be a complete asshole to his teammates, the media, and the fans....

So in that respect, yes, Bonds may very well have gotten the "benefit of the doubt" vote among baseball fans if he wasn't a dick all the time...

Bill Lumbergh
12-02-2004, 09:14 PM
I agree. I'm a Giants fan though, and he has carried this team since 93'(yes even when he was skinny, and ONLY hitting 46 and only walking 120 times a year).

redblkwht
12-03-2004, 01:40 AM
Cubs fan here too..The early Sosa pic's are like barrys skinny
& lankey too. My opinion of the corked bat is he used it more
than anyone thinks, unfortunatly he got caught. I'd guarantee his
agent told him what to say.

redblkwht
12-03-2004, 01:41 AM
Originally posted by Warham
Somebody we can ditch soon. They don't have much. I definately don't want that pussy Piazza.
Ya mean homo bro..lmao ;) hes a real life butt-plug, pillow biter.

redblkwht
12-03-2004, 01:44 AM
Originally posted by Warham
I'm actually glad they are trying to ship him out.

I'd rather the Cubs use that money to pay for some younger talent. Any way to rid Sosa, id do it if i was a shareholder id
agree with any option to boot his ass outta here..hes a distraction
now, team cancer killed the team this year not the announcers.
Sosa was the biggest culprit.

ALinChainz
12-03-2004, 01:50 PM
Yanks might be terminating Giambi's contract.

Should be interesting.

Can't wait to see what Marion Jones said in her testimony.

Va Beach VH Fan
12-03-2004, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by ALinChainz
Can't wait to see what Marion Jones said in her testimony.

Considering that Conte is saying he was in the room next to her when she injected the shit, I'd lay odds she'll lie about it....