The Troops "Talk Back"

[Nickdfresh]

Rumsfeld faces tough questions from troops
Defense chief speaks to soldiers heading to Iraq
Wednesday, December 8, 2004 Posted: 8:24 AM EST (1324 GMT)


CAMP BUEHRING, Kuwait (AP) -- After delivering a pep talk designed to energize troops preparing to head for Iraq, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld got a little "talking to" himself from disgruntled soldiers.

In his prepared remarks, Rumsfeld urged the troops -- mostly National Guard and Reserve soldiers -- to discount critics of the war in Iraq and to help "win the test of wills" with the insurgents.

Some of soldiers, however, had criticisms of their own -- not of the war itself but of how it is being fought.

Army Spc. Thomas Wilson, for example, of the 278th Regimental Combat Team that is comprised mainly of citizen soldiers of the Tennessee Army National Guard, asked Rumsfeld in a question-and-answer session why vehicle armor is still in short supply, nearly three years after the war in Iraq.

"Why do we soldiers have to dig through local landfills for pieces of scrap metal and compromised ballistic glass to uparmor our vehicles?" Wilson asked. A big cheer arose from the approximately 2,300 soldiers in the cavernous hangar who assembled to see and hear the secretary of defense.

Rumsfeld hesitated and asked Wilson to repeat his question.

"We do not have proper armored vehicles to carry with us north," Wilson said after asking again.

Rumsfeld replied that, "You go to war with the Army you have," not the one you might want, and that any rate the Army was pushing manufacturers of vehicle armor to produce it as fast as humanly possible.

And, the defense chief added, armor is not always a savior in the kind of combat U.S. troops face in Iraq, where the insurgents' weapon of choice is the roadside bomb, or improvised explosive device.

"You can have all the armor in the world on a tank and it can (still) be blown up," Rumsfeld said.

Asked later about Wilson's complaint, the deputy commanding general of U.S. forces in Kuwait, Maj. Gen. Gary Speer, said in an interview that as far as he knows, every vehicle that is deploying to Iraq from Camp Buehring in Kuwait has at least "Level 3" armor. That means it at least has locally fabricated armor for its side panels, but not necessarily bulletproof windows or protection against explosions that penetrate the floorboard.

Speer said he was not aware that soldiers were searching landfills for scrap mental and used bulletproof glass.

During the question-and-answer session, another soldier complained that active-duty Army units sometimes get priority over the National Guard and Reserve units for the best equipment in Iraq.

"There's no way I can prove it, but I am told the Army is breaking its neck to see that there is not" discrimination against the National Guard and Reserve in terms of providing equipment, Rumsfeld said.

Yet another soldier asked, without putting it to Rumsfeld as a direct criticism, how much longer the Army will continue using its "stop loss" power to prevent soldiers from leaving the service who are otherwise eligible to retire or quit.

Rumsfeld said that this condition was simply a fact of life for soldiers at time of war.

"It's basically a sound principle, it's nothing new, it's been well understood" by soldiers, he said. "My guess is it will continue to be used as little as possible, but that it will continue to be used."

In his opening remarks, Rumsfeld stressed that soldiers who are heading to Iraq should not believe those who say the insurgents cannot be defeated or who otherwise doubt the will of the military to win.

"They say we can't prevail. I see that violence and say we must win," Rumsfeld said.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Copyright 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.


U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld speaks to troops in Kuwait on Wednesday.

[Phil theStalker]

YIKES.

Where do you get this stuff?

I'm began to cry.


P

[Nickdfresh]

CNN I think, but I heard it on National Public Radio first thing this morning. Pretty ball'sy to tell Rummy what you really think.

[Phil theStalker]

ATTENTION SOCCER MOMS

She didn't think it would happen to her and her child either.

[Warham]

Rumsfeld probably leaned over to one of the generals and said,
'make sure you send that guy to Fallujah.'

[DEMON CUNT]

Finally!

Hopefully, the wheels are coming off this phony war.

[ODShowtime]

I guess they were upset because they don't want to die for his oil profits. I'd get a little testy too.

[Warham]

Not quite there, Cunt.

The wheels are secured by five well-placed lug nuts and won't be coming off anytime soon.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Warham
The wheels are secured by five well-placed lug nuts and won't be coming off anytime soon.


gw, cheney, condi, rummy, and... who's the 5th lugnut? wolfowitz?

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by Warham
Not quite there, Cunt.

The wheels are secured by five well-placed lug nuts and won't be coming off anytime soon.
Not until they're blown off and foreign troops are in America.

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
gw, cheney, condi, rummy, and... who's the 5th lugnut? wolfowitz?
Our own troops almost killed Wolfowitz in Iraq. They mortared his hotel. "Only U.S. troops had the intelligence to do that shelling." Col. Donn de Gran-Pre, retired, U.S. Army

Listen, he'll say it to you.
(CLICK HERE TO LISTEN) (http://www.infowars.com/transcripts/degranpres.htm)


P

[Nickdfresh]

If I were in the Army, I'd be mighty pissed at Dummy Rummy and his pansy brigade of cavalier, arrogant Pentagon "Whiz Kids" too!

This just in, we can take Iraq with as few as 50,000 troops! Gee, I really like "transformation."

At this rate we'll be "transformed" right back to 1972!

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Phil theStalker
Not until they're blown off and foreign troops are in America.

Oi vay Phil! Forget the UN piloted "Black Helicopters" will ya.'

[Ally_Kat]

http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=324077

um -- don't look like Iraq to me. Looks more like Kosovo or Srebrenica

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Phil theStalker
Our own troops almost killed Wolfowitz in Iraq. They mortared his hotel. "Only U.S. troops had the intelligence to do that shelling." Col. Donn de Gran-Pre, retired, U.S. Army

I've read this from more reputable sources. Wolfy was DEFINITELY fired upon while in Iraq. And he was LUCKY he escaped. The fact that only US troops could have done it is more disputable, but I believed that too (I can't recall the source). Although I thought the attack was with rockets as opposed to mortars. It was the side of the hotel.

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
If I were in the Army, I'd be mighty pissed at Dummy Rummy and his pansy brigade of cavalier, arrogant Pentagon "Whiz Kids" too!

This just in, we can take Iraq with as few as 50,000 troops! Gee, I really like "transformation."

At this rate we'll be "transformed" right back to 1972!
You picked a good year for an example. You left out the exercise of the First Amendment in the '60's. You're right.

There will be no more demonstrations like that year after year. Fifty percent of the country then told the world "establishment" to back off.

Now they are going to move to #2 amendment to "take back" the government (i.e., not overthrow the Constitution).

It's clearly legal, and it's clearly where this country is going unless there are more, and more successful, Wolfowitz incidents that try to stop a civil war.

Like rust, the one world government never sleep, like you sleep and are asleep.


P

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
I've read this from more reputable sources. Wolfy was DEFINITELY fired upon while in Iraq. And he was LUCKY he escaped. The fact that only US troops could have done it is more disputable, but I believed that too (I can't recall the source). Although I thought the attack was with rockets as opposed to mortars. It was the side of the hotel.
Rockets, mortars, that's why I gave the source, U.S. Army Col. Donn de Gran-Pre.

Heads up.:)


P

[Nickdfresh]

Killing an incompetent or ruthlessly careerist officer in Vietnam was called "fragging," that is, rolling a fragmentation Grenade under his bunk while sleeping, and sending him on a one way trip to the ceiling.

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=324077

um -- don't look like Iraq to me. Looks more like Kosovo or Srebrenica
You're confused. It may be my fault. I ask that people use their background to fill in the blanks and get find the truth themselves instead of being spoon fed it.

It's supposed to REPRESENT America.

It's supposed to REPRESENT American soccer moms who voted Bush/Cheney ticket.

It's supposed to REPRESENT...you find the truth yourself.

The actual picture is from the town area of Nikolaev. It's title read: After bombing by fascist aviation near Nikolaev town, 1941.

It's supposed to REPRESENT you have as much control over your life as this young mother had.

It's supposed to REPRESENT fascist (i.e., corporate government) bombing of Fallujah, anywhere in Iraq, etc..

You try harder and it will REPRESENT more enlightenments to you as you grow, learn, and mature. I think you will mature, young woman. You put in an effort. You try. It will pay off for you big time someday. Maybe today a little for you.

It's suppose to REPRESENT a picture says a thousand words.

Why don't you join us?


P

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Killing an incompetent or ruthlessly careerist officer in Vietnam was called "fragging," that is, rolling a fragmentation Grenade under his bunk while sleeping, and sending him on a one way trip to the ceiling.
It's also well known that the Marines lost a lot of lieutenants in the Pacific in WW II. That should catch the ear of a lot of lieutenants over the next four years of Bush.


P

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Oi vay Phil! Forget the UN piloted "Black Helicopters" will ya.'
Have you heard of radiation? Chemicals are cheaper and almost no expense or technology to store for years. Black helicopters alone can't take total control of the world's resources and people.

Why nuke a U.S. city when it's easier to nuke the whole over extended miliarty over seas never to come home again...WW III can happen that fast and that way.

If a nuke that can't make it onto U.S. soil easily makes it and destroys and vaporizes an entire U.S. division of thousands of troops in the Middle East then you've got world war three.

It's more obvious each day that each day is a gift to stop this from happening. If people don't wake up now it's just over.


P

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Phil theStalker
Our own troops almost killed Wolfowitz in Iraq. They mortared his hotel. "Only U.S. troops had the intelligence to do that shelling." Col. Donn de Gran-Pre, retired, U.S. Army

Listen, he'll say it to you.
(CLICK HERE TO LISTEN) (http://www.infowars.com/transcripts/degranpres.htm)


P

Phil. Alex Jones is causing your brain to melt! Stop listening.

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Phil. Alex Jones is causing your brain to melt! Stop listening.
Nick. I'm not listening to Alex Jones! I'm listening to U.S. Col. Donn de Gran-Pre.


P

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Phil theStalker
Nick. I'm not listening to Alex Jones! I'm listening to U.S. Col. Donn de Gran-Pre.


P

I have to admit he is interesting, but he's also selling something (three books in addition to DVD's) and quite frankly I take what he says with a grain of salt.

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I have to admit he is interesting, but he's also selling something (three books in addition to DVD's) and quite frankly I take what he says with a grain of salt.
I'm not a blind following fool either. But there is a "truth" in anything this obvious. Shave off the Colonel's opinion and see what "truth" is left. There's a lot of truth in that interview. You know it too, don't you.

You should get those book and/or DVD's and do the same thing. Seek the truth. Buy the things used and don't line his pockets. Ok.

Take action or it's over.


P

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Phil theStalker
I'm not a blind following fool either. But there is a "truth" in anything this obvious. Shave off the Colonel's opinion and see what "truth" is left. There's a lot of truth in that interview. You know it too, don't you.


P

Some truth about Wolfoshitz. But his "missile fired from a Global Hawk (unmanned recon aircraft) hit the Pentagon" statement is rubbish.

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I have to admit he is interesting, but he's also selling something (three books in addition to DVD's) and quite frankly I take what he says with a grain of salt.
You can accuse the news you get from CNN, FOX, CBS, NBC, TIME magazine, etc., of the same thing and they're all lining a lot more pockets selling you their views.


P

[Big Train]

THis fucking thread makes my head hurt. At least two people are having a discussion... :)

I think the guy has some valid points, but so does Rummy. You got to use what you got to get what you want. Are the guys in Fallujah bellyaching cause they have to stand behind a brick wall with a machine gun vs. an american tank? That they only have 5 RPG's to fight the Americans with?

I understand and sympathize with the guy's concern certainly, but a job still has to be done.

As for your unjust war comments, I'll just let those comments stand....my positions have been argued endlessly it seems.

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by Big Train
THis fucking thread makes my head hurt. At least two people are having a discussion... :)

I think the guy has some valid points, but so does Rummy. You got to use what you got to get what you want. Are the guys in Fallujah bellyaching cause they have to stand behind a brick wall with a machine gun vs. an american tank? That they only have 5 RPG's to fight the Americans with?

I understand and sympathize with the guy's concern certainly, but a job still has to be done.

As for your unjust war comments, I'll just let those comments stand....my positions have been argued endlessly it seems.
Big Train, this is why you are not on my Ignore. You have things to add. We are all connected.

Grate points.


P

[Big Train]

Phil , I LIKE being on your ignore. :)

The things like this I feel are valid, but it is a military issue. People forget this is a fucking WAR. Everything isn't "perfect and ready to go" all the time, but you make due. It doesn't bother me that the guy said something-in any orginazation, if you got something to say, say it. But say it well and be active, don't just bitch about it, which is what I respect here.

Bottom line, still have to go do a job. That isn't me "Being a hard ass from the safety of America" that is just the truth. I feel for the guy and feel we need to do everything to help him, but it still has to be done.

Call me crazy, but I actually think we are making progress towards our goals.

[Warham]

Phil's ignore feature doesn't work properly. Never has.

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by Big Train
Phil , I LIKE being on your ignore. :)

The things like this I feel are valid, but it is a military issue. People forget this is a fucking WAR. Everything isn't "perfect and ready to go" all the time, but you make due. It doesn't bother me that the guy said something-in any orginazation, if you got something to say, say it. But say it well and be active, don't just bitch about it, which is what I respect here.

Bottom line, still have to go do a job. That isn't me "Being a hard ass from the safety of America" that is just the truth. I feel for the guy and feel we need to do everything to help him, but it still has to be done.

Call me crazy, but I actually think we are making progress towards our goals.
You liked it too much on Ignore.

I agree with you. Your words can make one see that the U.S. effort in Iraq is a war between the patriotic duty of doing a good job as an American when called upon. People are getting food and schools are open. But there's a lot more to be done.

No matter how much the world needs the U.S. to come to their rescue from dictators the U.S. there to control the oil fields, not to avenge 9/11 and to prevent anymore 9/11's and larger in Cheney's "great day of horror."

From the average U.S. grunt to the average U.S. taxpayer who's being effected by the higher designs of people than they would ever speak of at their dinner tables or in their churchs, Temples, and Mosques yet it effect everyone of them when they get their marching orders from dear old Uncle Sammy.

It's terrible when brother fights brother in their own house (civil war).

Why aren't they doing that in Iraq?

Why is the U.S. doing it?

Wow.


P

[Big Train]

So Phil, I take it your not an isolationist. Good.

They aren't brother vs. brother there because one brother has and RPG and machine gun and the other has a sack of rice and a family to bring it home too. Uneven odds. The Kurds have always maintained that they would break off again if it didn't work out the way they wanted.

This war is part of the longer term solution of the Middle East. Until this part of the world is stabilized, we will never know peace. Which is why they never speak on it, because the truth most people can't handle. This is a generational war, not the couple of easy freebies we have already had.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Big Train
Until this part of the world is stabilized, we will never know peace. Which is why they never speak on it, because the truth most people can't handle. This is a generational war, not the couple of easy freebies we have already had.

Exactly. We needed to stablize Iraq before we roll Syria and Iran. That's the plan. The admin just is too pussy to really talk about it. So they lied about Iraq's capabilities. They'll probably be more open about it now that they have 4 more years...

[Big Train]

They didn't lie I feel. They went in on something they felt they could "get" Iraq on, because they needed a base of operations. You'll notice they moved out of Saudi Arabia after Iraq. The info turned out to be bad, so it has made it more difficult. The point is to be in the center of it all and work out. It is a tough assignment, but it is better to fight in their house than ours.

[Nickdfresh]

I have to get that book "Imperial Hubris" by that ex-CIA guy. Very critical of America's invasion in Iraq and on the wars potential long term impact on terrorism.

[ODShowtime]

well, either we are gonna invade the entire middle East to remake it, in which case it makes sense to invade Afghanistan and then Iraq, or we are going in to steal oil, in which case it make sense to invade Afghanistan and then Iraq.

a mixture of the two is the real reason for war

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
CNN I think, but I heard it on National Public Radio first thing this morning. Pretty ball'sy to tell Rummy what you really think.


:rolleyes: This was a staged event. :gulp:

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
:rolleyes: This was a staged event. :gulp:

Shut up.

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
:rolleyes: This was a staged event. :gulp:

RETARDED. If this was staged those soldiers would have never asked questions like that. Clearly Rummy was caught of guard.

[b1c2]

Originally posted by Big Train
They didn't lie I feel. They went in on something they felt they could "get" Iraq on, because they needed a base of operations. You'll notice they moved out of Saudi Arabia after Iraq. The info turned out to be bad, so it has made it more difficult. The point is to be in the center of it all and work out. It is a tough assignment, but it is better to fight in their house than ours.

EXACTLY! Which, as a "soccer mom" (ok, a karate mom, but same difference) that picture really did more to convince me of the need for this war than anything else. I don't want that shit happening to me and my kid but if we don't handle things over there, it could.

Big Train- I like you. You're smart and non-inflammatory. You get 5 stars!

[Big Train]

I thank you very much and welcome you to the forum.

[b1c2]

Thanks! Actually I've around for a while, just don't post much. Used to be over at Slawterhouse too. You're a refreshing breath of sensibility!

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by DEMON CUNT
RETARDED. If this was staged those soldiers would have never asked questions like that. Clearly Rummy was caught of guard.

You used to ride the short bus. This was a PR staged-event. Go seek help. Go look for bananas on the ground of your habitat. :tits: :bananna:

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by b1c2
Thanks! Actually I've around for a while, just don't post much.

Indeed. Didn't you used to post at DDLR also? :gulp:

[b1c2]

Indeed I did! Bottoms up!

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
You used to ride the short bus. This was a PR staged-event. Go seek help. Go look for bananas on the ground of your habitat. :tits: :bananna:

How did you arrive at this brilliant theory? Rumsfeld looked flustered.

[Nickdfresh]

This was the lead story on ABC News tonight.

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Rumsfeld looked flustered.

Agreed. See what paying attention gets you? The facts.

Did you notice how the troops reacted to the "armor from landfill" question? They cheered in approval.

[Nickdfresh]

That's because the U.S. troops know the have giant bullseyes on them when they drive out in their "convoys." Not a pleasant thought when the IED's or improvised explosive devices are hooked up to several artillery shells. ABC also ran a "package" on the troops "jerry-wrigging" their Hummers with add-on steel plates.

[DEMON CUNT]

Makes you wonder what Halliburton has spent the 870 hundred bazzilion dollars on...

60 Minutes ran a story about the improvised armour several weeks ago. They were having to to use sand bags, wood, etc. Support our troops indeed.

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
You used to ride the short bus. This was a PR staged-event. Go seek help. Go look for bananas on the ground of your habitat. :tits: :bananna:

hey Bri, don't you love it that they get to scream staged event and plant everyday whenever something doesn't go good for people they support and it's all good, but if one of us says the same thing, we're insane.

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by Phil theStalker
You liked it too much on Ignore.

I agree with you. Your words can make one see that the U.S. effort in Iraq is a war between the patriotic duty of doing a good job as an American when called upon. People are getting food and schools are open. But there's a lot more to be done.

No matter how much the world needs the U.S. to come to their rescue from dictators the U.S. there to control the oil fields, not to avenge 9/11 and to prevent anymore 9/11's and larger in Cheney's "great day of horror."

From the average U.S. grunt to the average U.S. taxpayer who's being effected by the higher designs of people than they would ever speak of at their dinner tables or in their churchs, Temples, and Mosques yet it effect everyone of them when they get their marching orders from dear old Uncle Sammy.

It's terrible when brother fights brother in their own house (civil war).

Why aren't they doing that in Iraq?

Why is the U.S. doing it?

Wow.


P
Man, I've gotta stop popping them pills or I'm gonna end up just like Elvis.

Who is the idiot who wrote this?

What the fuck am I saying?

What time was it?

Get mmme mmmy ppopping pills.

..i'mm starTITing t2o sstudderr..

..and i starTIT t2o stalk wen i sstudderrr..

..who will bee mmmy nex victim?

..Ally_Kat, flappo, BBB, BT, Warham????????/

....stopp mmme bef4o tit's t2oo late..


ssss tit's t2oo late ssss


<marquee direction=left>:spank:</marquee>

[Phil theStalker]

..i'mm stalking everybody..<marquee direction=right>

[madraoul]

We're never going to control that part of the world. If you need a reference to back up that point, please see the big book called World History. And no you red state occupants, world history does not equal the bible.

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by madraoul
We're never going to control that part of the world. If you need a reference to back up that point, please see the big book called World History. And no you red state occupants, world history does not equal the bible.
Aw man, you don't post enough. Where have you been?


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[Big Train]

Dear Blue Stater..

Who ever said the word "control"? I used the word "stabilize" which is the best thing we can do. We can't do their work for them, but we can introduce the possibility of a more advanced, open society to them.

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by madraoul
We're never going to control that part of the world. If you need a reference to back up that point, please see the big book called World History. And no you red state occupants, world history does not equal the bible.

Amen!

We stockholders just care about the OIL.

[blueturk]

Rummy is getting very fluent at Bushspeak! Speaking of Wilson,the soldier who grilled him about armor,Rummy said,"I don't know what the facts are but somebody's certainly going to sit down with him and find out what he knows that they may not know,and make sure he knows what they know that he may not know,and that's a good thing.I think it's a very constructive exchange." Classic!

[ODShowtime]

I don't know all the things that Rumsfeld doesn't know about.

[Phil theStalker]

I don't know what you don't know that Rumsfeld doesn't know, but if he asks you what you don't know and you ask me what I don't know what you don't know and I tell you what I don't know then you'll know that I don't know what you don't know what Rumsfeld doesn't know and then we'll know that and that's a good thing, baby.

Distrbaing.


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[Nickdfresh]

Uncle Rummy says:

"Screw you grunt! You go to war with the Army you have, not the one you want! He he, I've been telling that to my Generals for years now!"

[Nitro Express]

I would have asked Rumsfeld "Where are the weapons of mass destruction we invaded Iraq over?" I would also make the point that President Bush, Dick Chenney, and Secretary Rumsfeld might want to crack open a copy of "The Art of War". These three idiots are good at breaking all the rules in that book.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Nitro Express
I would also make the point that President Bush, Dick Chenney, and Secretary Rumsfeld might want to crack open a copy of "The Art of War". These three idiots are good at breaking all the rules in that book.

Very good point. I thought that was required reading!

[Nickdfresh]

Army seeks more armored Humvees
Florida company says it can retrofit 100 more vehicles per month
Friday, December 10, 2004 Posted: 9:24 PM EST (0224 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Florida company that retrofits U.S. Army Humvees with additional armor will increase production from 450 units a month to 550 by early 2005, the company said Friday night.

The question of whether wheeled vehicles in Iraq are properly armored surfaced Wednesday when a soldier asked Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld about it during a town hall meeting at a staging area in Kuwait.

Armor Holdings Inc. said in a news release it can produce another 100 Humvees per month by next March and is currently 330 vehicles ahead of schedule.

The Army said that until news reports this week it was unaware Armor Holdings, based in Jacksonville, could retrofit more vehicles and so it approached the company. The Army said it thought the company had commitments to other customers, including the Marine Corps.

Francis Harvey, the new secretary of the army, talked with the company's CEO to discuss a deal Friday, a senior Pentagon official said.

Harvey set up a task force to look at other military vehicle contracts to see if more can be made or production increased.

CNN also learned that the U.S. Army Arsenal in Rock Island, Illinois, has been ordered to resume an around the clock schedule to make cab armor kits for 5-ton trucks and fuel tankers.

During the meeting with troops Wednesday at Camp Buehring, Kuwait, a soldier about to deploy to Iraq asked Rumsfeld why more vehicles were not reinforced for battle conditions. (Full story)

"Why do we soldiers have to dig through local landfills for pieces of scrap metal and compromised ballistic glass to uparmor our vehicles?" asked Spc. Thomas Wilson of the 278th Regimental Combat Team, a Tennessee National Guard outfit.

"It's essentially a matter of physics, not a matter of money," Rumsfeld responded. "It's a matter of production and the capability of doing it.

"As you know, you have to go to war with the Army you have, not the Army you want."

The question was planted by a newspaper reporter from the Chattanooga Times Free Press in Tennessee who is embedded with Wilson's unit. (Full story)

Some Democrats charged that Congress has repeatedly gone to the Pentagon about the need to beef up Humvees and had received assurances that the problem had been addressed.

A member of the House Armed Services Committee, Rep. Gene Taylor of Mississippi, called the situation "ridiculous."

"I don't want to go to a single funeral and have to look a mom or dad or spouse in the eye, and knowing that this Congress has gone to Secretary Rumsfeld, for over a year now, saying, 'Fix the problem. Send us the bill.' "

Democratic Sen. Frank Lautenberg of New Jersey sent a letter to President Bush on Friday urging for Rumsfeld's resignation.

"As a former soldier, I can't believe that a secretary of defense would be so dismissive of requests for protective gear by our people in uniform," Lautenberg wrote.

Republican John Warner of Virginia, chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said his panel would hold more hearings on armoring vehicles and that Congress has provided more than $1 billion to correct the problem.

"Since the first day that the Defense Department identified a shortage of vehicle armor, Congress not only has provided the full armor funding requested by the [Defense] Department, it has gone beyond that, by providing $1.3 billion more for additional armor and armored vehicles in 2003-2004," Warner said in a news release.

Lt. Gen. R. Steven Whitcomb, commander of the 3rd Army who is responsible for ground operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, briefed reporters Thursday on the military's efforts to get more Humvees and transport trucks retrofitted with armor.

Whitcomb said 22,000 of 30,000 vehicles in Iraq, Afghanistan and other Central Command bases have additional armor.

Of those vehicles, 6,000 are factory retrofitted Humvees -- 2,100 short of the military's goal. About another 10,000 Humvees have been outfitted with add-on kits.

About 120 armored Humvees have been destroyed in combat, Whitcomb said.

He said transport trucks were usually retrofitted with "locally fabricated" armor. According to a House Armed Services Committee report, however, only 1,100 of 9,100 haulers in the war zones have added protection, the Associated Press reported.

Matt Salmon, president of ArmorWorks of Tempe, Arizona, told CNN his company, which designs and manufactures high-tech vehicle armor, could double its production from 300 to 600 kits per month.

The Army, however, said that it already has a backlog of kits.

CNN's Jamie McIntyre contributed to this report.


Copyright 2004 CNN. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. Associated Press contributed to this report.


Humvees can be used as scout vehicles, troop carriers, TOW missile carriers or ambulances.
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[Nickdfresh]

Military faces complaints, morale problems
Friday, December 10, 2004 Posted: 7:32 PM EST (0032 GMT)


WASHINGTON (AP) -- Troops always gripe. But confronting the defense secretary, filing a lawsuit over extended tours and refusing to go on a mission because it's too dangerous elevate complaining to a new level.

It also could mean a deeper problem for the Pentagon: a lessening of faith in the Iraq mission and in a volunteer army that soldiers can't leave.

The hubbub over an exchange between Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and soldiers in Kuwait has given fresh ammunition to critics of the Bush administration's Iraq policy.

It also highlighted growing morale and motivation problems in the 21-month-old war that even some administration supporters say must be addressed to get off a slippery slope that could eventually lead to breakdowns reminiscent of the Vietnam War.

For thousands of years, soldiers have grumbled about everything from their commanders to their equipment to shelter and food. But challenging a defense secretary to his face is rare. So is suing the military to keep from being sent back to a combat zone.

"We are seeing some unprecedented things. The real fear is that these could be tips of a larger iceberg," said P.J. Crowley, a retired colonel who served as a Pentagon spokesman in both Republican and Democratic administrations and was a White House national security aide in the Clinton administration.

"The real issue is not any one of these things individually. It's what the broader impact will be on our re-enlistment rates and our retention," Crowley said.

Several Iraq-bound soldiers confronted Rumsfeld on Wednesday at a base in Kuwait about a lack of armor for their Humvees and other vehicles, about second-hand equipment and about a policy keeping many in Iraq far beyond enlistment contracts. Their pointed questions were cheered by others in the group. (Full story)

The episode -- the questions and Rumsfeld's testy responses were captured by television cameras and widely reported -- did not raise new issues. Complaints about inadequate protection against insurgents' roadside bombs and forced duty extensions have been sounded for months. But not so vividly.

President Bush and Rumsfeld offered assurances that the issues of armor and equipment were being dealt with, and that the plainspoken expression of concerns by soldiers was welcome.

"I'd want to ask the defense secretary the same question," Bush said, if the president were a soldier in overseas combat. "They deserve the best," he added.

Legal battles and disobedience
The display of brazenness in Kuwait came just two days after eight U.S. soldiers in Kuwait and Iraq filed a lawsuit challenging the military's "stop loss" policy, which allows the extension of active-duty deployments during times of war or national emergencies.

In October, up to 19 Army reservists from a unit based in South Carolina refused orders to drive unarmored trucks on a fuel supply mission along attack-prone roads near Baghdad, contending it was too dangerous. The Pentagon is still investigating the incident.

"Tensions obviously are rising," said Anthony Cordesman, a military analyst at the Center for Strategic and International Studies and a former adviser to Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona.

"The fact is that you do need now to consider how to change the force structure: the role of the reserves, the role of the actives. Troops are being deployed in continuing combat under what are often high risk conditions for far longer periods than anyone had previously considered or planned for."

When the war began in March 2003, the troops were predominantly active duty military. Today, National Guard and Army Reserve units make up about 40 percent of the force.

The growing restiveness of U.S. troops in the Middle East echoes a drop in optimism at home that a stable, democratic government can be established in Iraq. A new poll for The Associated Press by Ipsos-Public Affairs shows that 47 percent of Americans now think it's likely Iraq can establish such a government, down from 55 percent in April.

White House spokesman Scott McClellan on Friday said that Bush "is committed to making sure our troops have the best equipment and all the resources they need to do their jobs. And that's exactly what he expects to happen."


Copyright 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.




A U.S. military convoy enters Iraq from Kuwait at Safwan border crossing Friday.

[frets5150]

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