PDA

View Full Version : Christmas censors



BigBadBrian
12-13-2004, 09:06 PM
Christmas censors
John Leo


December 13, 2004


The annual assault on Christmas comes in many forms. First, there is the barrage of litigation by the American Civil Liberties Union, which is reliably offended by almost any representation of Christianity in the public square. Small towns, facing the prospect of expensive litigation over religious displays on public property, often cave in simply out of fear. Part of the intimidation is that if the towns lose, they must pay the legal fees of the ACLU. But now religious-liberties legal groups provide attorneys to stand up to the ACLU. The Arizona-based Alliance Defense Fund won in federal court last month in a suit filed by the ACLU against the city of Cranston, R.I. Cranston allows religious and secular displays of all kinds on the front lawn of City Hall.The ACLU argued that this was a church-state violation, but U.S. District Judge William Smith ruled that nothing in the evidence “reveals or even remotely supports an inference that a religious purpose was behind the creation of the limited public forum.”

Another standard anti-Christmas maneuver is to argue that all references to Christmas in public schools are suspect, while references to Hanukkah or Kwanzaa, for whatever reason, are not. The policy of the 1,200 New York City public schools is that no purely religious symbols are allowed, only ones that have a “secular dimension,” such as Christmas trees, menorahs, and the star and crescent. But the star and crescent is hardly secular. It is the symbol of Islam. And the menorah, though now losing some of its religious significance, is the symbol of an intervention by God to save the Jewish people. The Thomas More Law Center filed suit on behalf of a Roman Catholic mother of two public-school students, saying, in effect, that if the city’s public schools are allowing brief and educational use of religious symbols for Muslims and Jews, then the Christian crèche should be permitted, too. Last February, U.S. District Judge Charles Sifton ruled for the school system. The case is under appeal. The crèche, for now, remains banned.
Like New York’s schools, Bay Harbor Islands in Florida refuses to allow a Nativity scene on public property but has menorahs and the Star of David on lampposts and permitted a local synagogue to erect a 14-foot-high menorah on public land.

A fairly new tactic in the Christmas wars can be called the sensitive person’s veto. In 2000, the city of Eugene, Ore., banned Christmas trees on public property, then allowed firefighters to put up a tree on Christmas Eve and Christmas, with the provision that if one person objected, the tree had to come down. The next year, Kensington, Md., banned Santa Claus from a tree-lighting ceremony because of two complaints. So the city’s most sensitive person was, in effect, allowed to make policy.

The sensitivity argument—that any reference to Christmas at all might make someone feel bad—is responsible for the spread of the anti-Christmas campaign from religious symbols to the purely secular and harmless trappings of the season, including red poinsettias, red-and-green cookies, holiday lights, and Rudolph the reindeer. Santa Claus, originally based on a Christian saint but no more religious than Kermit the Frog, is considered much too divisive and hurtful to non-Christian students in many schools. The principal of Braden Middle School in Florida said, “You won’t see any Christmas trees around here. We keep it generic.” Some principals and teachers around the country even ban the word Christmas. In Rochester, Minn., two girls were reprimanded for saying “Merry Christmas” in a school skit.And though Christmas trees are considered secular when they are useful in warding off Nativity scenes, the word Christmas is often removed by panicky officials, thus producing multicultural trees, holiday trees, community trees, care trees, and giving trees. The White House still has a Christmas tree, but Congress has a Capitol Holiday Tree. Accommodating all traditions is a worthy goal. But a broad movement to erase the word Christmas is an extraordinary development in a culture that is more than 80 percent Christian. How much more of this is the public willing to tolerate? William Donohue, head of the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights, points out that an elementary school in New Hampshire declared that December is a gift-giving month but couldn’t explain why or how it got to be a giving time of year, since it refused to use the word Christmas.

The South Orange/Maplewood, N.J., school district banned religious Christmas songs, even in instrumental versions. In Florida, an elementary school concert included songs about Hanukkah and Kwanzaa but offered not a single note of Christmas music. A recent winter parade in Denver looked very much like a Christmas event, except for one small thing: Every reference to Christmas was banned. Unless believers and religious-liberties groups begin to push back, the anti-Christmas trend will prevail in the public square.

DEMON CUNT
12-14-2004, 01:41 AM
Gasp!

Could it be that man is evolving beyond the need to believe in some magical all controlling god?

http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/biology/humanevolution/images/jtimages/a.africanus.jpg

Seshmeister
12-14-2004, 09:09 AM
Christmas is a secular festival and was originally made the 25th of December because the nativity story is based on that of Mithras, a sun god from about 300BC.

BigBadBrian
12-14-2004, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
Christmas is a secular festival and was originally made the 25th of December because the nativity story is based on that of Mithras, a sun god from about 300BC.

Christmas does indeed have some secularism and paganism wrapped up in it (pun intended), but as long as the real meaning for Christians is celebrated, there is no real harm done. Catholics have buttloads of pagan rituals. :gulp:

BTW, can you please give us a lesson on Santa Claus? ;)

ODShowtime
12-14-2004, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
A fairly new tactic in the Christmas wars can be called the sensitive person’s veto... Kensington, Md., banned Santa Claus from a tree-lighting ceremony because of two complaints. So the city’s most sensitive person was, in effect, allowed to make policy.

This makes me wants to put my boot on someone's neck and twist.

Whether it's real liberals pushing in this direction to destroy our heritage (Christmas is every American's heritage), or the fuckin' bible-humpers funding and creating whole organizations to make bitchfests for every naugty word and bit shown on TV, this country is quickly devolving into the a place where everything must be approved by the most senstive person. By the most prudish person. By children. We can't watch or listen to anything that could offend a child.

I'm stuck in the middle of a moron parade!!!

And these cocksuckers are gaining momentum. They see it's working. The squeeky wheel gets the grease alright!

Ally_Kat
12-14-2004, 11:35 AM
We were decorating for our "Holiday" Party at school. We were allowed to put up Happy Chanukkah and Happy Kwanza signs, but not Merry Christmas ones because we might offend someone. In place of it, we were allowed to put up a Happy Holidays sign.

Man, if we're not suppose to celebrate Christmas anymore, why doesn't everyone stop taking off 2 weeks for it? I don't see anyone taking two weeks off for Chanukkah or Kwanza, nor do I see anyone complaining how that is offensive.

I mean, honestly, let's look at Christmas. Outside of those in the faith who believe and all that, is Christmas really about Christ? It's turned into monster holiday for department stores. You don't need to give gifts to celebrate Christmas. You don't need a tree up to celebrate Christmas. Don't get me wrong, I love Christmas decorating, but I don't see it as anything religious to have a tree in the house or not -- even though the Catholic Church has come up with these little symbolic meanings for everything. I highly doubt God's going to love me less if I don't have a tree or if I don't buy my nephew some outlandish gift that I can't afford.

Christmas is two holidays in one. It's the Christian observance of Jesus' birth and it's the secular gift-giving holiday. I know of so many non-Christians who celebrate Christmas with fervor each year.

So what's the big deal with hating Christmas? It's like Easter with how it started out this Christian holiday that had its religious undertones removed and started to get celebrated by everyone no matter what faith they were. Then everyone gets mad and tries to hide the huge holiday they helped create when those of the faith mention anything about the original religious undertones.

Seshmeister
12-14-2004, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
BTW, can you please give us a lesson on Santa Claus? ;)

Nah I'm a Pepsi drinker...:)

Ally_Kat
12-14-2004, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
Nah I'm a Pepsi drinker...:)

Actually, the Protestant Reformation helped bring out the idea of Santa Claus as we have it now because they didn't look too kindly at celebrating feast days of saints.

Coke started its ad campaign in the 30s but The Night before Christmas was written in 1823, and it describes more a visit from Santa Claus than it does a visit from St Nicholas, which was its original title. ( A Visit from St. Nicholas)

WACF
12-14-2004, 02:07 PM
Not sure if it is a stat holiday in the U.S. but here Good Friday is a stat.
I have never heard an athiest or non-christian complain about taking the day off.

Is Kwanza not a made up holiday?
I may be wrong on that...not sure.

You gotta shake your head at this crap.
I remember when my kids were in the public school system you could not sing any religous related carols at the Christmas concert.
No mangers or angels allowed either...it's Christmas for Christ's sake....there is nothing wrong with putting everyone's religous symbols out for Christmas...you don't like then don't look!!!

BigBadBrian
12-14-2004, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by Ally_Kat
We were decorating for our "Holiday" Party at school. We were allowed to put up Happy Chanukkah and Happy Kwanza signs,

I'd be raising HOLY HELL at this double standard crap. I have nothing against Chanukkah and realize Kwanzaa is not a religious holiday itself and have nothing against it either, but the anti-Christian bias is appalling in this case.

If you want to raise a stink Ally, you could always contact the Thomas More Law Center or the American Center for Law and Justice (Pat Robertson's Group ;) sic 'em Pat, sic 'em) . They live for fighting stuff like this. Won't cost you a cent either. :gulp:

BigBadBrian
12-14-2004, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
Nah I'm a Pepsi drinker...:)

I KNEW you weren't quite right. This proves it. Pepsi over Coke? Say it ain't so.... :D

Warham
12-14-2004, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by DEMON CUNT
Gasp!

Could it be that man is evolving beyond the need to believe in some magical all controlling god?

http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/biology/humanevolution/images/jtimages/a.africanus.jpg

Quit putting up pictures of your x-rays.

Viking
12-14-2004, 07:13 PM
We have a deal with our town cops - if we catch someone fucking with the creche in front of city hall and they're not around, we get to shoot them. In self-defense, of course, Or, at least that's what the 'official' report will show. :elvis:

DEMON CUNT
12-14-2004, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
I'd be raising HOLY HELL at this double standard crap. I have nothing against Chanukkah and realize Kwanzaa is not a religious holiday itself and have nothing against it either, but the anti-Christian bias is appalling in this case.

You Christians just love to get your panties all up-in-a-bunch, don't you? You love being outraged.

When you so-called Christians decide to actually emulate Christ, let us know.

Until then, keep your crazy superstitions outta my face!

BigBadBrian
12-14-2004, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by DEMON CUNT
You Christians just love to get your panties all up-in-a-bunch, don't you? You love being outraged.

When you so-called Christians decide to actually emulate Christ, let us know.

Until then, keep your crazy superstitions outta my face!

Is that all you got? :rolleyes:

Ally_Kat
12-14-2004, 11:51 PM
Originally posted by DEMON CUNT
You Christians just love to get your panties all up-in-a-bunch, don't you? You love being outraged.

When you so-called Christians decide to actually emulate Christ, let us know.

Until then, keep your crazy superstitions outta my face!

How do you know how I live my life? Do you somehow have some special capability to watch me after I sign off?

DEMON CUNT
12-15-2004, 01:46 AM
Originally posted by Ally_Kat
How do you know how I live my life? Do you somehow have some special capability to watch me after I sign off?

If this does not apply to you, then my apologies.

If you really strive to be more like Christ, you have my respect.

I do reserve the right to talk shit and expect the same from you. :)

***

I have enjoyed reading your poinions here. An articulate Christian is hard to find. Surely you understand.

Warham
12-15-2004, 06:49 AM
An articulate cunt can never be found though.

BigBadBrian
12-15-2004, 07:13 AM
Originally posted by Warham
An articulate cunt can never be found though.

Indeed. :gulp:

Ally_Kat
12-15-2004, 08:29 AM
Originally posted by DEMON CUNT
If this does not apply to you, then my apologies.

If you really strive to be more like Christ, you have my respect.

I do reserve the right to talk shit and expect the same from you. :)

***

I have enjoyed reading your poinions here. An articulate Christian is hard to find. Surely you understand.

I'm just pointing out that outside a few words strung together on a messageboard, you don't know any of us -- just like we don't know you. Some of us may call you names on a board due to those words you have put together, but outside here...who's to say you don't help out in soup kitchens or that one of us volunteers at a children's hospital, or that another helps deliver meals to the elderly?

Real Christians don't brag about the good works they do. They don't do them looking to use it to prove their faith to non-believers, or to other believers for that matter.

But seeing how you don't like our superstitions, I'm willing to bet that you don't exchange any candy on St. Valentine's Day or drink a pint with your buds on St. Patrick's day, eh? Like Christmas and Easter, they can and are celebrated as holidays stripped of their original religious meaning/purpose. People of many different walks of life and religions all celebrate these holidays. I fail to see how they are "our" superstitions anymore.

Little_Skittles
12-16-2004, 01:40 AM
Quote "Small towns, facing the prospect of expensive litigation over religious displays on public property, often cave in simply out of fear."
hahaha hey small towns where I come from are the best at christmas time we got christmas decorations and even had chirstmas spirit week. WE make fun of what ya'lls big town cities go to court over. We still sing we wish you a merry CHRISTmas NOT we wish you happy holidays or other shit like that. Anybody offended by how americans celebrate christmas can go fuck off in another country because ya'll motherfuckers bring YOUR SHIT into OUR COUNTRY! AND US GOOD PPL (lOL YEAH RIGHT) DON'T SAY A DAMN THING ABOUT IT SO SHUSH YOUR MOUTHS TOO AND LET US HAVE THE ONE DAY OUT OF THE YEAR THAT IS RIGHTFULLY OURS AND IN CHRISTS NAME WE PRAY AMEN.

DEMON CUNT
12-16-2004, 01:48 AM
Originally posted by Ally_Kat

Real Christians don't brag about the good works they do. They don't do them looking to use it to prove their faith to non-believers, or to other believers for that matter.


Is it possible to emulate Christ in other more subtle ways?

Ally_Kat
12-16-2004, 02:31 AM
Originally posted by DEMON CUNT
Is it possible to emulate Christ in other more subtle ways?

Why? So you don't have to see any evidence of Christians whatsoever?

Ya know, we hear all about this tolerance and how we have to accept this group and this group, but Christians are fair game. Kind of a double standard.

Like I said before, the faith can't be blamed for today's secular holiday that is Christmas. There's the religious holiday and there's the shopping mall holiday. Can't blame Christians entirely as thousands of people, regardless of faith, celebrate this holiday.

Ally_Kat
12-16-2004, 02:34 AM
Hey DC, I never hear you bitching about Chanukkah or Kwanza. Are these holidays okay to celebrate because they are not Christian?

Ally_Kat
12-16-2004, 02:36 AM
Originally posted by Little_Skittles
Quote "Small towns, facing the prospect of expensive litigation over religious displays on public property, often cave in simply out of fear."
hahaha hey small towns where I come from are the best at christmas time we got christmas decorations and even had chirstmas spirit week. WE make fun of what ya'lls big town cities go to court over. We still sing we wish you a merry CHRISTmas NOT we wish you happy holidays or other shit like that. Anybody offended by how americans celebrate christmas can go fuck off in another country because ya'll motherfuckers bring YOUR SHIT into OUR COUNTRY! AND US GOOD PPL (lOL YEAH RIGHT) DON'T SAY A DAMN THING ABOUT IT SO SHUSH YOUR MOUTHS TOO AND LET US HAVE THE ONE DAY OUT OF THE YEAR THAT IS RIGHTFULLY OURS AND IN CHRISTS NAME WE PRAY AMEN.

Are you Katydid's daughter or something?

Little_Skittles
12-16-2004, 11:28 AM
No i'm just saying like it is allykat.

Jesus Christ
12-16-2004, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by Little_Skittles
We still sing we wish you a merry CHRISTmas NOT we wish you happy holidays or other shit like that. Anybody offended by how americans celebrate christmas can go fuck off in another country because ya'll motherfuckers bring YOUR SHIT into OUR COUNTRY! AND US GOOD PPL (lOL YEAH RIGHT) DON'T SAY A DAMN THING ABOUT IT SO SHUSH YOUR MOUTHS TOO AND LET US HAVE THE ONE DAY OUT OF THE YEAR THAT IS RIGHTFULLY OURS AND IN CHRISTS NAME WE PRAY AMEN.

If ye are going to pray in My name, please watch thy language! :mad:

Mezro
12-16-2004, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by Ally_Kat
I don't see anyone taking two weeks off for Chanukkah or Kwanza, nor do I see anyone complaining how that is offensive.

I see people taking off the entire year to celebrate Kwanza;)

Mezro...and plenty of people are complaining...

Ally_Kat
12-16-2004, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by Mezro
I see people taking off the entire year to celebrate Kwanza;)

Mezro...and plenty of people are complaining...

Where? Cuz I'm not hearing a peep over here nor am I seeing/ hearing of anyone taking off a year for Kwanza over here.

Little_Skittles
12-16-2004, 04:40 PM
ok jc I'll watch the language.

Viking
12-16-2004, 09:21 PM
Hey, Skittles, sweetie, ignore JC-uh, FORD-uh, Satan-uh, The Seven Faces Of Eve. You haven't been here long enough to realize that Sgt. Slingblade appointed a thorazine-deficient global Utopian with delusions of moral superiority as a moderator here. Probably as comic relief. Or as an object lesson as to who not to date. :p :rolleyes:

Nickdfresh
12-16-2004, 09:31 PM
Originally posted by Viking
Hey, Skittles, sweetie, ignore JC-uh, FORD-uh, Satan-uh, The Seven Faces Of Eve. You haven't been here long enough to realize that Sgt. Slingblade appointed a thorazine-deficient global Utopian with delusions of moral superiority as a moderator here. Probably as comic relief. Or as an object lesson as to who not to date. :p :rolleyes:

Jesus Viking! She's only 16, stop hitting on her you perve or I'll sick Ken Starr on your ass!;)

Little_Skittles
12-16-2004, 10:53 PM
lol viking and nick