Where's Your Fuckin' Faith?

[DaveIsKing]

Ok, all who know me know I am no Liberal, (I am Libertarian :D) but I can't go along with my "Right Wing" friends who call out for God's will or God's voice or pray for this or that. I am sorry Bush's doing "God's Will" is horseshit to me guys. If there is no God, there is no God's will. I can't PROVE there is no God, but um...the burden of proof ain't on the denier, it's on the claimer.

Anyhow, a Christian friend of mine and I were debating religion and when I stumped his argument he resorted to the old "WELL....you just gotta have faith, brother." Sorry, but I don't just gotta...and don't give me this well "you have faith in this and that...." NO NO NO. There is a huge difference in a RATIONAL BELIEF that I am driving to Chattanooga...(road signs, maps, been there before, etc.) than a troll fairy in the garden.

Faith as described by the Christian BIBLE is frankly belief without evidence.
:confused:


Why do so many people put stock in such a premise? Below is a list of various things certain peoples put their 'faith' in. Test yourself and your sensibility.
--- Millions of Hindus pray over statues of Shiva's penis. Do you think there's an invisible Shiva who wants his penis prayed over?
--- Mormons say that Jesus came to America after his resurrection. Do you agree?
--- Florida's Santeria worshipers sacrifice dogs, goats, chickens, etc., and toss their bodies into waterways. Do you think Santeria gods want animals killedl?
--- Muslim suicide bombers who blow themselves up in Israel are taught that "martyrs" go instantly to a paradise full of lovely female houri nymphs. Do you think the bombers now are in heaven with houris?
--- Unification Church members think Jesus visited Master Moon and told him to convert all people as "Moonies." Do you believe this sacred tenet of the Unification Church?
--- Jehovah's Witnesses say that, any day now, Satan will come out of the earth with an army of demons, and Jesus will come out of the sky with an army of angels, and the Battle of Armageddon will kill everyone on earth except Jehovah's Witnesses. Do you believe this solemn teaching of their church?
--- Aztecs skinned maidens and cut out human hearts for a feathered serpent god. What's your stand on invisible feathered serpents?
--- Catholics are taught that the communion wafer and wine magically become the actual body and blood of Jesus during chants and bell-ringing. Do you believe in the "real presence"?
--- Faith-healer Ernest Angley says he has the power, described in the Bible, to "discern spirits," which enables him to see demons inside sick people, and see angels hovering at his revivals. Do you believe this religious assertion?
--- The Bible says people who work on the sabbath must be killed: "Whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death" (Exodus 31:15). Should we execute Sunday workers?
--- At a golden temple in West Virginia, saffron-robed worshipers think they'll become one with Lord Krishna if they chant "Hare Krishna" enough. Do you agree?
--- Members of the Heaven's Gate commune said they could "shed their containers" (their bodies) and be transported to a UFO behind the Hale-Bopp Comet. Do you think they're now on that UFO?
--- During the witch hunts, inquisitor priests tortured thousands of women into confessing that they blighted crops, had sex with Satan, etc. -- then burned them for it. Do you think the church was right to enforce the Bible's command, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" (Exodus 22:18)?
--- Members of Spiritualist churches say they talk with the dead during their worship services. Do you think they actually communicate with spirits of deceased people?
--- Millions of American Pentecostals spout "the unknown tongue," a spontaneous outpouring of sounds. They say it's the Holy Ghost, the third god of the Trinity, speaking through them. Do you believe this sacred tenet of many Americans?
--- Scientologists say each human has a soul which is a "Thetan" that came from another planet. Do you believe their doctrine?
--- Ancient Greeks thought a multitude of gods lived on Mt. Olympus -- and some of today's New Agers think invisible Lemurians live inside Mt. Shasta. What's your position on mountain gods?
--- In the mountains of West Virginia, some people obey Christ's farewell command that true believers "shall take up serpents" (Mark 16:18). They pick up rattlers at church services. Do you think God really wants people to pick up poisonous snakes?
--- India's Thugs thought the many-armed goddess Kali wanted them to strangle human sacrifices. Do you think there's an invisible goddess who wants people strangled?
--- Tibet's Buddhists say that when an old Lama dies, his spirit enters a baby boy who's just being born somewhere. So they remain leaderless for a dozen years or more, then they find a boy who seems to have knowledge of the old Lama's private life, and they annoint the boy as the new Lama (actually the old Lama in a new body). Do you think that dying Lamas fly into new babies, or not?
--- In China in the 1850s, a Christian convert said God appeared to him, told him he was Jesus' younger brother, and commanded him to "destroy demons." He raised an army of believers who waged the Taiping Rebellion that killed 20 million people. Do you think he was Christ's brother?
Or....do you doubt it?
Finally one last test:
--- Over 1 billion around the world believe that God punished humankind with "imperfectness" because a man ate from a fruit tree and this caused God to be angry enough to send Himself to earth as a human to be killed, so that His own blood would pacify Himself in to forgiving humanity for one man's disobedience. This also saved humanity from dealing with a terrible monster underground ready to torment us forever and ever in a lake of fire if we slip up and don't believe this story. But, if we do happen to believe it (as 1 billion do), we inherit the love of God and mansions, streets of gold and an eternal paradise beyond the sky to live forever and ever while we watch our loved ones (the other 2.8 billion) who've slipped up roast, choke, writhe in pain and burn in fire for infinity.

THAT'S just ONE of the reasons...FRANK!

[Coyote]

My home is where my heart is, and my faith is where my guitar is.

And I know I'm goin' to hell, 'cause there's a pool table with my name on the reservation list.

[lms2]

So tell me DaveisKing... what happens when we die?

[Viking]

We're met at the Pearly Gates by George Burns....:angel:

[lms2]

Only in the movies!

I wonder how many Roth Army posters would go to a hypothetical heaven?

[DaveIsKing]

All the EVIDENCE points to:

1) Vital organs shutting down.
2) Brain may go into odd hallucinatory stages before dying.
3) Afterwards, our body deteriorates.
4) We become worm fodder.

Our legacy (what we leave behind) and our posterity will be our immortality.

Thank you, thank you... DaveIsKing.

[Nickdfresh]

I AM A BELIEVER! And I think that anyone proclaiming GOD'S WILL is an incompetent, demented ASSHOLE! PRAISE GEORGE!

[Matt White]

So much for science.....

DOVER, Pa. - When talk at the high school here turns to evolution, biology teachers have to make time for Charles Darwin as well as his detractors.

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With a vote last month, the school board in rural south-central Pennsylvania community is believed to have become the first in the nation to mandate the teaching of “intelligent design,” which holds that the universe is so complex that it must have been created by an unspecified higher power.

Critics call the change in the ninth-grade biology curriculum a veiled attempt to require public schoolchildren to learn creationism, a biblical-based view that credits the origin of species to God. Schools typically teach evolution, the theory that Earth is billions of years old and that life forms developed over millions of years.

The state American Civil Liberties Union chapter is reviewing the Dover Area School District case. Its Georgia counterpart, meanwhile, is fighting a suburban Atlanta district’s decision to include a warning sticker in biology textbooks that says evolution is “a theory, not a fact.”

“What Dover has done goes much further than what’s happened in Georgia,” said Witold Walczak, legal director of the Pennsylvania ACLU. “As far as we can tell, Dover is the first school district that has actually mandated intelligent design.”

From farmland to suburbs
The district enrolls about 2,800 students. It encompasses the small, rural community of Dover borough, about 20 miles south of Harrisburg, and a patchwork of farmland and newer suburban developments in several surrounding townships.

The revision was spearheaded by school board member William Buckingham, who heads the board’s curriculum committee.

“I think it’s a downright fraud to perpetrate on the students of this district, to portray one theory over and over,” said Buckingham. “What we wanted was a balanced presentation.”

Buckingham wanted the board to adopt an intelligent-design textbook, “Of Pandas and People: The Central Question of Biological Origins,” as a supplement to the traditional biology book, but no vote was ever taken. A few weeks before the new science curriculum was approved, 50 copies were anonymously donated to the high school.

Although Buckingham describes himself as a born-again Christian and believes in creationism, “This is not an attempt to impose my views on anyone else,” he said.

Dissenters resign
Two of the dissenting board members, Carol Brown and her husband, Jeff, were so upset that they resigned after the 6-3 vote on Oct. 18.

“We have a vocal group within the community who feel very strongly in an evangelical Christian way that there is no separation of church and state,” Carol Brown said. “Our responsibility to is to represent the viewpoints of all members of the community.”

Statewide science-curriculum standards approved by Pennsylvania’s state Education Board merely ask students to “analyze data ... that are relevant to the theory of evolution.”

When the standards were revised three years ago, the board considered language that would have required students to consider evidence that did not support evolution, but the board dropped the idea after critics alleged it would have led to the widespread teaching of creationism in public schools.

Creationism repackaged?
Critics of intelligent design contend it is creationism repackaged in more secular-sounding language.

“Creationism in a cheap tuxedo,” said Nicholas Matzke, project information specialist for the National Center for Science Education in Oakland, Calif., which advocates for the teaching of evolution.

Even the Seattle-based Discovery Institute, which supports scientists studying intelligent-design theory, opposes mandating it in schools because it is a relatively new concept, said John West, associate director of the institute’s Center for Science and Culture.

“We’re completely against anyone who says you should downgrade or limit the teaching of evolution,” West said.

Uncertainty in school
Dover biology teacher Jennifer Miller said the curriculum changes have left her uncertain about how to approach her evolution lesson.

“If you put the words ’intelligent design’ into my curriculum, then I have to teach it,” said Miller, a 12-year veteran. “I’m not sure what that means as to how in-depth we have to go. ... I’m looking for more direction from the school board.”

[DaveIsKing]

What's next ?

The Science of PSYCHICS, GHOST HUNTERS, EXORCISTS, and ALIEN ABDUCTION. (Hey, Sammy could teach that class!)

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by DaveIsKing
--- Catholics are taught that the communion wafer and wine magically become the actual body and blood of Jesus during chants and bell-ringing. Do you believe in the "real presence"?


"chants and bell-ringing" do not cause the Transubstantiation. My suggestion to the site you copied that from is that they understand the religions and their traditions more before mocking them.

Where is my faith? In my heart. I believe what I believe and I don't impose it on anyone. Why is it that I must always hear how I am wrong in my beliefs if I never try to "correct" anyone else on theirs?

Where those tests of faith suppose to confuse me and thus make me reconsider my belief in a higher power? All it did was point out the different beliefs in the world, which is hardly surprising because of the amount of people in this world and the hundreds of millions of ways we see things.

[DaveIsKing]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
"chants and bell-ringing" do not cause the Transubstantiation. My suggestion to the site you copied that from is that they understand the religions and their traditions more before mocking them.

Where is my faith? In my heart. I believe what I believe and I don't impose it on anyone. Why is it that I must always hear how I am wrong in my beliefs if I never try to "correct" anyone else on theirs?

Where those tests of faith suppose to confuse me and thus make me reconsider my belief in a higher power? All it did was point out the different beliefs in the world, which is hardly surprising because of the amount of people in this world and the hundreds of millions of ways we see things.

First of all, nowhere was it stated that "chants and bell-ringing" CAUSE ANYTHING.

Secondly, the "site I copied that from" is not a site nor is it "directly copied". I got several of the terms from a book I've been reading and added a few of my own. Just for good measure. :)

Now, I don't care what you believe frankly, but my post is not FORCING anything down your throat. You read it and accept it or you read it and dismiss it. It's up to you.

But, just as Christians try to "convert" others, I find it my goal to help people who may be struggling from mind control techniques of "just believe" Christians and other fundamentalist mystics.
You see, religious people want there to be a second layer to reality... one in which magic or divine things occur... where the known laws of nature and reality momentarily stop working the way we think they should work and work they way we WANT them to work. But, unfortunately, such an event does not occur "naturally" except perhaps on the Hollywood screen.
:cool:

I am here to present EQUAL TIME. :p

[turboblues]

DaveIsKing, you deserve a thousand votes but I can only give you 5!

[DaveIsKing]

Originally posted by turboblues
DaveIsKing, you deserve a thousand votes but I can only give you 5!

:D - Thank you, my brother. :killer:

[BlimpyCHIMP™]

I BELIEVE IF THERE IS A GOD HES DEFINATLEY ONE TERRIBLEY DISFUCHTIONAL FATHER AND HE OWES ME ALOTTA BACK CHILD SUPPORT

I FEEL I OUGHTA SUE GOD N SHIT BUT I CAN'T AFFORD THE TRIAL LENGTH, ACCORDING TO HI S WORD I LIVE THREESCORE N TEN YEARS AND HE LIVES FOR EVER

THAT MEANS HE CAN CONTINUOUSLY APPEAL MY WIN LONG AFTER I CROAK AND NEVER SEE A DIME OF IT

THANKS FATHER GOD
THANK YOU SO MUCH, ILL JUST GO TARROW WITH THE SPARROWS FOR MY LUNCH NOW

[WACF]

As a Catholic I find it funny when a non Catholic tells me what I believe.

[BlimpyCHIMP™]

WHY IS IT GOD CAN IMPREGNATE A 15 YR OLD AND HAVE ANOTHER MAN RAISE HIS -GODS- CHILD PAYING TO FEED IT AND HOUSE IT FOR 30 YEARS AND NOT ONLY THAT OUTRUN THE LAW -EGYPT- FOR IT TO KEEP IT ALIVE FOR 11 OF THOSE YEARS - AND GOD DIDN'T PAY ONE SOLID PENNY

OH I GET IT THE GOLD FRANKINCENSE AND MYHRR TRIP

GOD TOLD THE 3 WISE MEN HEYYY

GO PAY MY CHILD SUPPORT PAYMENT FOR THE NEXT DOZEN YEARS OR SO

OR ELSE BECAUSE IM GOD AND YOURE JUST WISE RULERS FROM BUMFUCK EGYPT AND BEYOND

YOU DO THAT IN THE US AND THEYLL LOCK YOUR SHIT UP FAST TAKE AWAY YOUR BANK YOUR CREDIT CARDS AND DRIVER LICENSE

BC!!
GODS LIKE THE GODFATHER ONLY HE IS A GOD AND A FUCKING FATHER HOW GOOD I DON'T KNOW

[Mike-adeth]

too long

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by DaveIsKing
First of all, nowhere was it stated that "chants and bell-ringing" CAUSE ANYTHING.


Your post was incorrectly telling me what my faith believed.


Originally posted by DaveIsKing
--- Catholics are taught that the communion wafer and wine magically become the actual body and blood of Jesus during chants and bell-ringing.


It was insinuating that we believe chants and bell-ringing cause the Transubstantiation.

[DaveIsKing]

Ok, so do you DENY that Catholics believe this ? If so, explain.

Secondly, again, I NEVER stated the bell-ringing CAUSED anything. I said it happens DURING all that.

[Ally_Kat]

The bell-ringing is ceremonial and i don't know what chants you are talking about. Have you ever been to a Mass?

[DaveIsKing]

Once.

And there are "chants", but it sounds like the same thing over and over...and over....

But, that is off the REAL subject.

Answer me this one question: Do Catholics believe that the bread and wine actually become the body and blood? (I know the answer)...but I just want a true Catholic to confirm it. :D

[ghostrider]

PRAISE DADDY, JR., AND THE HOLY SPOOK!!

[Seshmeister]

Another one for the Catholics.

Do you believe that Mary's mother had 9 heads?

The Catholic church approved of 9 different relic heads as being hers all over Europe.

What's with the relics thing anyway?

Keeping the foreskin of a 'saint' in a box and then getting people to come and pray beside it.

Creepy primative money making bullshit.

Cheers!

:gulp:

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by DaveIsKing
Once.

And there are "chants", but it sounds like the same thing over and over...and over....

But, that is off the REAL subject.

Answer me this one question: Do Catholics believe that the bread and wine actually become the body and blood? (I know the answer)...but I just want a true Catholic to confirm it. :D

Yes, that's the Transubstantiation. BUT, chants and bell-ringing do not cause it, and neither do Catholics believe that chants and bell-ringing cause it, like your lil jab suggested.

But, I think you think you have me in a pickle. Show me where I denied the Transubstantiation. I didn't. I only denied your suggested means of why/how it happens.

You have went only once. I have gone so many times I've lost count. There are no chants. The story about the Last Supper is told.

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Another one for the Catholics.

Do you believe that Mary's mother had 9 heads?

The Catholic church approved of 9 different relic heads as being hers all over Europe.

What's with the relics thing anyway?

Keeping the foreskin of a 'saint' in a box and then getting people to come and pray beside it.

Creepy primative money making bullshit.

Cheers!

:gulp:

full heads or pieces of heads?


The relic thing is kinda of like buying water Elvis drank on ebay. The saints are kind of like celebrities within the faith, so having a piece of them is a big thing. Sometimes when these saints die, their bodies don't decompose the normal, for lack of a better word, way. So there's a lot of bodies in churches around Europe with saint bodies displayed and these bodies look like they died only a couple of months ago -- whereas they died back in the 1400s or so.

For me, it's a freaky thing. Not my cup of tea.

[DaveIsKing]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
Yes, that's the Transubstantiation. BUT, chants and bell-ringing do not cause it, and neither do Catholics believe that chants and bell-ringing cause it, like your lil jab suggested.

Ally, sweetheart, I NEVER stated that the bell-ringing and chants CAUSED the Transubstantion. Never did. I said it happens DURING... Huge Difference.


Originally posted by Ally_Kat But, I think you think you have me in a pickle. Show me where I denied the Transubstantiation. I didn't. I only denied your suggested means of why/how it happens.

No, I never said you denied it. I asked you to answer me if Catholics believed that or not. You did. The whole point is the absurdity of such a belief, not necessarily that bells and chants caused it. It's that Catholics ACTUALLY BELIEVE bread and wine turn into literal flesh and blood.


Originally posted by Ally_Kat You have went only once. I have gone so many times I've lost count. There are no chants. The story about the Last Supper is told.

Ok, maybe so. All I know was that during the ceremony I observed that chanted or "said" the same thing over and over about 50 times.

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by DaveIsKing
Ally, sweetheart, I NEVER stated that the bell-ringing and chants CAUSED the Transubstantion. Never did. I said it happens DURING... Huge Difference.

No it's not. Your statement insinuated that without either, it wouldn't happen; that it has a hand and causes it. What you say you were trying to get across sure doesn't come out that way when read.



Originally posted by DaveIsKing
No, I never said you denied it. I asked you to answer me if Catholics believed that or not. You did. The whole point is the absurdity of such a belief, not necessarily that bells and chants caused it. It's that Catholics ACTUALLY BELIEVE bread and wine turn into literal flesh and blood.

And I think you are absurd for instigating such topics over and over and over again. When you started this habit in the beginning of this year, I pointed out how you love to start such topics. You denied that. Yet here we are -- again -- in yet another thread of your in how ridiculous having faith in something is.

Does that one belief hinder you in any way? Does it cause harm to anybody? No. But you sure worry over it.

And I don't know about other Christians, but your "Equal Time" claim happens to me on a daily basis. I get approached by more people telling me I'm a moron for having faith in something than I do by people actually trying to get me to listen about their faith. I think I'd rather be approached by someone trying to convert me because at least if you tell them 'no thank you', they'll offer you some reading material and leave you alone. I've been followed by your kind who harassed me because I was wearing a cross, coming out of Church, or said "Bless you" to someone on the train when they sneezed. I think that's a little much.



Originally posted by DaveIsKing
Ok, maybe so. All I know was that during the ceremony I observed that chanted or "said" the same thing over and over about 50 times.

It is said ONCE. Not chanted, not repeated. Thank God! It takes a bit to go thru.

Yeah, one time and now you are the know-all end-all of Catholic Mass services. I bet you didn't even ask the priest/deacon or anyone in the congregation what had went on. I suggest you do some more research at Churches and/or look up what is done at that part of the Mass before wrongfully telling Catholics what happens during their religious services.

[CROWBAR]

Well, isn't this a special thread I've wandered into! :D

If God created the Universe, then who created God?

[DaveIsKing]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
No it's not. Your statement insinuated that without either, it wouldn't happen; that it has a hand and causes it. What you say you were trying to get across sure doesn't come out that way when read.

Ok. I never stated the causation of Transubstantion was bell-ringing and chanting. Shall we get a third party to be go back and look at it and see that you are creating a straw man? C'mon.


Originally posted by Ally_Kat
And I think you are absurd for instigating such topics over and over and over again. When you started this habit in the beginning of this year, I pointed out how you love to start such topics. You denied that. Yet here we are -- again -- in yet another thread of your in how ridiculous having faith in something is..

Damn. You have a good memory. Either that or a lot of time to spare. Yes, I enjoy these topics, but it has been over half a year since I created such a thread. And you know it. I mean, shit, ANYBODY has the capability to check it out. Just go back and look at the threads.



Originally posted by Ally_Kat
Does that one belief hinder you in any way? Does it cause harm to anybody? No. But you sure worry over it. .

No, I don't worry over it. I like to debate and discuss things. Religion happens to be a hobby for me. I enjoy people who actually BELIEVE in fairy tales and spooky shit. :D


Originally posted by Ally_Kat
And I don't know about other Christians, but your "Equal Time" claim happens to me on a daily basis. I get approached by more people telling me I'm a moron for having faith in something than I do by people actually trying to get me to listen about their faith. I think I'd rather be approached by someone trying to convert me because at least if you tell them 'no thank you', they'll offer you some reading material and leave you alone. I've been followed by your kind who harassed me because I was wearing a cross, coming out of Church, or said "Bless you" to someone on the train when they sneezed. I think that's a little much..

Calm down. No one is forcing skepticism down your throat. Well, at least, I'm not. I am just exercising my right to free speech in a fun way.



Originally posted by Ally_Kat
It is said ONCE. Not chanted, not repeated. Thank God! It takes a bit to go thru..

Ok, ok...whatever. All I need is that what I heard was the same thing 500 times over...hAIL MARY FULL OF SOMETHING, BLAH BLHA BLAH


Originally posted by Ally_Kat
Yeah, one time and now you are the know-all end-all of Catholic Mass services. I bet you didn't even ask the priest/deacon or anyone in the congregation what had went on. I suggest you do some more research at Churches and/or look up what is done at that part of the Mass before wrongfully telling Catholics what happens during their religious services.

Gee, I state a little skepticism and challenge some funny beliefs and you want ad hominem me by saying that I insinuated I was a know-it-all about Catholicism.:rolleyes:

Getting a little rowdy, dear. :D

[Coyote]

Rowdy is what we is, 'King... :cool:

[Ally_Kat]

DIK, the Hail Mary is not said during Mass. You heard nothing "repeated 500 times." You just didn't know what was going on and have made your judgements based on that. And you don't want to learn what was going on -- you just want to discredit.

You're doing this to get a reaction. You always do. So I'm not going to give you one anymore.

Learn something about the faiths you mock and then maybe I'll give you some respect in such topics.

[DaveIsKing]

*smack*

Whatchyo' mouf' wumun....

How dare you dis' DaveIsKing after the sad thrashing you received at his hands.

Fold the cards, sweetie...Game Over.

But, I still love ya. ;)

[MAX]

I cannot believe that I've missed this thread? :confused:

How many of you that bitch about Christianity or the power of prayer have actually read or regularly READ the Bible? Seriously, don't be too quick to judge what you don't believe or understand. There is much more to it. It is called faith after all. I love reading the Bible and I'd bet money that many of you could have never guessed because I don't believe in telling people what they should do. However, it means a lot to me. Sorry but some of the shit in this thread kind of irked me. Anyway, rant off. :cool:

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by DaveIsKing
*smack*

Whatchyo' mouf' wumun....

How dare you dis' DaveIsKing after the sad thrashing you received at his hands.

Fold the cards, sweetie...Game Over.

But, I still love ya. ;)

The sad thrashing I received from you? The only thing you accomplished was showing those who do believe in a higher power how little you know about the faiths you mock. But think that's winning.

Like I said, and like I am going to start after this post, not reading your comments on this subject anymore because of your lack of knowledge on the subject at hand.

[Rikk]

ALLY, you've told me this many a time. Why don't you just ignore it if you don't agree with him?

As for my take, I am an agnostic...not quite an athiest. I came to this conclusion after indeed knowing a lot about the religion I practiced...Christianity. Then I read a great deal of philosophy and a lot of soul-searching. My own instincts made me an athiest at the age of thirteen, an agnostic (not concluding anything) during my undergrad years after reading much philosophy. My personal belief is that humans have no right to be sure of almost anything. That said, I don't attack my religious friends. I believe everybody reaches their own belief based on their own experience. Part of that is the reason I am an agnostic. But I also believe that people disagreeing religiously has caused some of the greatest harms this world has ever seen.

[DaveIsKing]

I've never attacked anybody because they are religious. But, I WILL bring to the table my hobby of exposing false hopes and promises via religion. Secondly, Ally, you don't even know me, because if you did you wouldn't say I knew nothing about Christianity...bwahahaha....trust me. However, I know the CATHOLICS are much different from the PROTESTANTS. I was a Protestant for 20 years, almost longer than you've been alive. So, don't go in territory YOU nothing about such as DaveIsKing's knowledge of a specific subject, because I would hate to embarrass you by showing you and the Roth Army just how WRONG you are.

You may have vasts amounts more knowledge than me about Catholic rituals, but don't slam me by saying I am ignorant of Christianity or religious beliefs, because I am not. I've been involved and have studied many belief systems. I went to a Christian School and then a Christian Academy for years because I wanted to become a Christian Apologist and be involved in a ministry to expose cults.

Now I know they are ALL cults. Any system which strips responsibility for oneself, tells one to rely on "blind faith" instead of reason and cuts away your individuality by keeping you in the masses (sheep) is A CULT.

DaveIsKing washes his hands of such and I will expose it ANY and EVERY chance I get!

However, I am also open to REASONABLE arguments which could put me in my place and if so, I may convert back to belief in the supernatural, but it would take a HELL of a lot to convince me. Perhaps, the angel Gabriel can float down and kick me in the ass or maybe I'll get stigmata...

Whatever...If GOD created me, then GOD knows what it takes to convince me.

N

[Coyote]

Man, this shit got ridiculous halfway the first page... Now look you two...

I might've religiously been of the Lutherian persuasion, but that don't make me worse as a person, now does it?

It's nice to have an opinion on something (like Catholic vs. whatever-the-fuck-it-was), but ya don't have to fuckin' start an internet "jihad" over it.

[DaveIsKing]

DaveIsKing is merely defending himself against accusations that are unfounded.
Much like religious beliefs...unfounded. :D

Of course, I do it all in jest, but people go apeshit when you critique their belief in netherworld stuff. But, of course, being a hater of censorship because words may "offend" someone else (who gives a fuck!), I will continue to present my views just as Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, and Voodoo boogyloos continue to present theirs.

No "jihad" on my part...Just Fun Fun Fun...and Entertainment.

[Coyote]

Actually, IMO, Christianity is the only religion that has tried to convert people into it. (I haven't checked my facts yet. Tomorrow, 'cause I'm steppin' out.)

Islamic religion is just a fuckin' weird twist on Christianity, again IMO...

[DaveIsKing]

I don't know, really.

I just think that any belief that uses pure emotion (without or even contradictory to reason) to project their own version of an objective reality on to people is scary and wrong. I will stand against such tyranny of the mind any time.

Just because you had a "vision" the world is coming to end next Tuesday, don't force people to move to Antartica. Governing by emotion and ignoring reason is a recipe for disaster. Religion is dangerous because it ISN'T subjective. It ISN'T a private, personal matter like many Christians try to argue. It is a viewpoint that is built for solicitation and creating objective reality through the pain (HELL) and pleasure (HEAVEN) principle.

[Coyote]

Originally posted by DaveIsKing
Just because you had a "vision" the world is coming to end next Tuesday, don't force people to move to Antartica. Governing by emotion and ignoring reason is a recipe for disaster. Religion is dangerous because it ISN'T subjective. It ISN'T a private, personal matter like many Christians try to argue. It is a viewpoint that is built for solicitation and creating objective reality through the pain (HELL) and pleasure (HEAVEN) principle.

A.K.A. an emotional crutch.