The White House WANTED TORTURE!

[Nickdfresh]

White House Fought New Curbs on Interrogations, Officials Say

By DOUGLAS JEHL and DAVID JOHNSTON

Published: January 13, 2005


WASHINGTON, Jan. 12 - At the urging of the White House, Congressional leaders scrapped a legislative measure last month that would have imposed new restrictions on the use of extreme interrogation measures by American intelligence officers, Congressional officials say.

The defeat of the proposal affects one of the most obscure arenas of the war on terrorism, involving the Central Intelligence Agency's secret detention and interrogation of top terror leaders like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks, and about three dozen other senior members of Al Qaeda and its offshoots.

An August 2002 legal opinion by the Justice Department said that interrogation methods just short of those that might cause pain comparable to "organ failure, impairment of bodily function or even death" could be allowable without being considered torture. The administration disavowed that opinion last summer after the classified legal opinion was publicly disclosed.

A new opinion made public late last month, signed by James B. Comey, the deputy attorney general, explicitly rejected torture and adopted more restrictive standards to define it.

But a cryptic footnote to the new document about the "treatment of detainees" referred to what the officials said were other still-classified opinions. The footnote meant, the officials said, that coercive techniques approved by the Justice Department under the looser interpretation of the torture statutes were still lawful even under the new, more restrictive interpretation.

Current and former government officials said specific interrogation methods were addressed in a series of still-secret documents, including an August 2002 one by the Justice Department that authorized the C.I.A.'s use of some 20 interrogation practices. The legal opinion was sent to the C.I.A. via the National Security Council at the White House.

Among the procedures approved by the document was waterboarding, in which a subject is made to believe he might be drowned.

The document was intended to guide the C.I.A. in its interrogation of Mr. Zubaydah and a handful of other high-level detainees. Instead, it led to a series of exchanges between the Justice Department and the intelligence agency as they debated exact procedures to be employed against individual detainees.

At times, their discussion included an assessment of whether specific measures, on a detainee by detainee basis, would cause such pain as to be considered torture.

In addition to Ms. Collins and Ms. Harman, the lawmakers in the conference committee negotiations were Senator Joseph I. Lieberman, Democrat of Connecticut, and Representative Peter Hoekstra, Republican of Michigan.

The Senate measure to impose new restrictions on the use of extreme interrogation measures, drafted by Senator Richard J. Durbin, Democrat of Illinois, was in an amendment introduced by Mr. Lieberman and Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona. And in little-noticed comments on the Senate floor in December, Mr. Durbin complained that the decision by conferees to delete the measure had been "troublesome."

"I think the intelligence community should be held to the same standards as the Department of Defense," Mr. Durbin said in those remarks, "and taking this language out of the bill will make that very difficult to monitor, as I hoped we would be able to do."

A Congressional Democrat said the White House stance had left the impression "that the administration wanted an escape hatch to preserve the option of using torture" against prisoners held by the C.I.A.

The only public statement from the Bush administration about the kinds of restrictions proposed by Mr. Durbin came last June, when the Defense Department expressed strong opposition to a measure in the military authorization bill. That measure, adopted by the Senate, also imposed restrictions prohibiting torture as well as cruel, inhuman and other degrading treatment but it applied only to Defense Department personnel.

In a letter to Congress, Daniel J. Dell'Orto, the Pentagon's principal deputy counsel, criticized the legislation as unnecessary, saying it would "leave the current state of the law exactly where it is." Mr. Dell'Orto also criticized as "onerous" and inappropriate other provisions in the measure that would require the Pentagon to submit annual facility-by-facility reports to Congress on the status of detainees.

Ultimately, the House did not include the measure in its version of that military bill, and the final version of the legislation included only nonbinding language expressing a sense of Congress that American personnel should not engage in torture.

NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/13/politics/13intel.html?pagewanted=2&ei=5094&en=358e4a1dfc40b382&hp&ex=1105678800&partner=homepage)


The Senate had approved the new restrictions, by a 96-to-2 vote, as part of the intelligence reform legislation. They would have explicitly extended to intelligence officers a prohibition against torture or inhumane treatment, and would have required the C.I.A. as well as the Pentagon to report to Congress about the methods they were using.

But in intense closed-door negotiations, Congressional officials said, four senior members from the House and Senate deleted the restrictions from the final bill after the White House expressed opposition.

In a letter to members of Congress, sent in October and made available by the White House on Wednesday in response to inquiries, Condoleezza Rice, the national security adviser, expressed opposition to the measure on the grounds that it "provides legal protections to foreign prisoners to which they are not now entitled under applicable law and policy."

Earlier, in objecting to a similar measure in a Senate version of the military authorization bill, the Defense Department sent a letter to Congress saying that the department "strongly urges the Senate against passing new legislation concerning detention and interrogation in the war on terrorism" because it is unnecessary.

The Senate restrictions had not been in House versions of the military or intelligence bills.

In interviews on Wednesday, both Senator Susan Collins of Maine, a Republican negotiator, and Representative Jane Harman of California, a Democratic negotiator, said the lawmakers had ultimately decided that the question of whether to extend the restrictions to intelligence officers was too complex to be included in the legislation.

"The conferees agreed that they would drop the language but with the caveat that the intelligence committees would take up the issue this year," Ms. Collins said.

Ms. Harman said, "If there are special circumstances around some intelligence interrogations, we should understand that before we legislate."

Some Democratic Congressional officials said they believed that the Bush administration was trying to maintain some legal latitude for the C.I.A. to use interrogation practices more extreme than those permitted by the military.

In its report last summer, the independent commission on the Sept. 11 attacks recommended that the United States develop policies to guarantee that captured terrorists were treated humanely.

Martin Lederman, a former Justice Department lawyer who left the department in 2002, said in an interview on Wednesday that he believed that the administration had "always wanted to leave a loophole where the C.I.A. could engage in actions just up to the line of torture."

The administration has said almost nothing about the C.I.A. operation to imprison and question terror suspects designated as high-value detainees, even as it has expressed disgust about abuses at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. Senior officials have sought in recent public statements to emphasize that the government will continue to abide by federal laws that prohibit torture.

At his confirmation hearing last week on his nomination to be attorney general, Alberto R. Gonzales said he found torture abhorrent.

The issue of the C.I.A.'s treatment of detainees first arose after agency officials sought legal guidance on how far its employees and contractors could go in interrogating terror suspects and whether the law barred the C.I.A. from using extreme methods, including feigned drowning, in the interrogation of Abu Zubaydah, the first of the Qaeda leaders captured by the United States. He was apprehended in Pakistan in early 2002.

[Viking]

If we know they're trying to blow up me and my family, I'm all for gassing up the 'ol Iraqi wood chipper if it'll get us some answers.

You turn the other cheek.

[ELVIS]

That's right!

[Jesus Christ]

Knowing a thing or two about being tortured Myself, I cannot understand how anyone who claims to believe in Me can endorse such a thing. :(

[lms2]

Play nice boys and girls... :rolleyes:

Its called war for a reason. Does someone need to post more pictures of the devastation there so we can see that all this is not being settled over a nice cup of tea?

I am for torturing the people who have the answers instead of the people who are merely tryng to live the life they were born into.

Put the shoe on the other foot... which would you rather see? Bush and assorted other cabinet members making these decisions getting mistreated, or your family, friends and neighbors, who may or may not support the decisions being made getting blown to bits in relentless ongoing attacks?

[John Ashcroft]

Torture 'em all!

Fuck them. If you're a terrorist, and you declare "Jihad" on the U.S., the Geneva Conventions do not apply to you. Nor do our Constitutional protections.

So I say once again as loudly as anyone wants to hear, FUCK THEM!

Oh, and a friggin' man-pyramid doesn't constitute torture in even the most liberal definition of the term. So quit your fucking belly-aching.

[Flash Bastard]

Torture is being forced to watch your parents and/or children executed if you don't give up information.

Torture is watching one of Saddam's agents rape your little sister because you said something bad about him at the mosque.

[Little_Skittles]

OMG what the frick and frack is america coming too? I just now learned about medieval torture which was bad enough. Like Jc said he was tortued too. America has to prove they've still some morals and values. Now we're no better than saddam himself.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by John Ashcroft
Torture 'em all!

Fuck them. If you're a terrorist, and you declare "Jihad" on the U.S., the Geneva Conventions do not apply to you. Nor do our Constitutional protections.


I agree IF we can prove that they've declared jihad. If we know who we're dealing with and they're fuckin around, fuck them.


like this sasquatch?

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/south/03/03/pakistan.arrests/story.ksmohammed.ap.jpg

sick granier on him

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Flash Bastard
Torture is being forced to watch your parents and/or children executed if you don't give up information.

Torture is watching one of Saddam's agents rape your little sister because you said something bad about him at the mosque.

Torture is watching certain people justify this war and the cost in human lives and seuffering.

Sadaam was an evil shit.

There are plenty of other evil shits out there.

Wanna kill tens of thousands of innocent children and thousands of US men and women getting rid of them too?

No, of course you dont



Unless they have oil:mad:

[vhrightnow]

If they are confirmed terrorists....torture the hell out of them, and if they die in the process......oh well......they are useless pieces of shit, and NO they do not have rights.......

[DEMON CUNT]

From their perspective we have declared a "Jihad" on them.

Does this justify the beheadings, bombings, etc?

We really need to start using our brains instead of our fists to solve problems.

This war only gets us citizens stuff like this:
http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/coffin_photos/la/la_ap_coffins01.jpg

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by Little_Skittles
OMG what the frick and frack is america coming too? I just now learned about medieval torture which was bad enough. Like Jc said he was tortued too. America has to prove they've still some morals and values. Now we're no better than saddam himself.

It's vile.

Even ignoring the lack of morality torture just makes people tell you want to hear and the next thing you're invading countries unjustifiably.

Not to mention that for every suspect you torture you create another 10 new 'terrorists'.

And for so called christians to support it is a joke.

[Little_Skittles]

Very good dc i'm glad some americans have common sense left still. Ladies and Gentleman, for all who think torturing terrorists is justified i hope to see all ya'lls in hell.

The reason first and foremost is that if ya'lls claiming to be christian that's a big joke (like sesh said). People didn't much care for king herod either but no one thought of torturing him.


Yes i do realize he was a king. However he was also our brother who condemned another brother jesus christ to pilot.


Now you may not like it but if you ask katydid i think she will agree that these people are our brothers and sisters in christ. And IF they accept jesus christ as their lord and savior before they die guess what?

Free ticket into heaven. Now guys believe what you will but put yourself in their shoes for one day. Oh and before you go spouting off lemme just say think about, what their doing and compare what you would do if you lived like them.

Jihad the way we interept it is holy war the original meaning in effort of god's service.

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
White House Fought New Curbs on Interrogations, Officials Say

By DOUGLAS JEHL and DAVID JOHNSTON

Published: January 13, 2005


WASHINGTON, Jan. 12 - At the urging of the White House, Congressional leaders scrapped a legislative measure last month that would have imposed new restrictions on the use of extreme interrogation measures by American intelligence officers, Congressional officials say...
Torture is cruel.

I haven't even read this article yet. Nick's ususally on the ball and I'd read it after this post.

This post about Gonzalass is only the tip of the iceberg. Gonzalass is a loose canon mouthpiece telling us all we are going to war right here in our homes and streets of our country America. Our U.S. government offices to the high office of the President have been overtaken by criminals of our country -- for many years.

Let me quote Gonzalass ideas: "The President of the United States can order torture..."

Phil's quote: "Who did George Washington torture?" And, "Why did George and Co. write and fight for these words: "NO CRUEL OR UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT." huh

Gonzalass: "It is not torture if the person doesn't die."

Phil's quote: "If we remove a finger that doesn't kill a person so we can remove a finger, or fingers, and...we can do it REAL SLOW for the PAIN...slow...pain...and it's not torture according to the "new" United States government, Bush, Gonzalass, and your the democrats who are not screaming bloody murder over this one issue of U.S. torture chambers for you and for me and for anybody. Removing one finger or two or three isn't torture according to Gonzalass, because it doensn't kill you. And if you die from an infection from the fingers removals, well hey, if they DIDN'T MEAN to kill you then you didn't die from the torture you died from an unfortunate infection.

Get yer guns.

Get your guns, but not to fight a war for your country against your government which are two different things. You people are pussies and I can tell from typing here so long you Bushy lovers don't even know what's happening to the world. All of your "we love Bush" rhetoric has gotten you a Gonzalass right in your faces and you can't see the end is HERE!

Get your guns to secure yourself for things like...survival. Period.

Water, food, guns. Guns to protect your water, food, and life and limb.

Okay, do you got it, you pussies?

The war inside of America is coming.

A real shooting war I completely predict is just around the corner.

They are setting it up.

Gonzalass: "Torture can be used so long as it does not produce death and if death does happen it's still not death by torture IF THERE WAS NO 'INTENT' TO KILL THE PERSON."

Phil's quote: "When are you all going to get your second amendment guns."

When prisoners for anything die under torture and the torturers still say they are not guilty if death occurs, because they didn't "intend" to kill the person then it's later than you think. I didn't say that. Gonzalass said that. It's his words and Bushy like those words. Do YOU like your Bush? Do YOU like your Bushy liking these words? Then I hope you have a lot of ammo, because THIS ISN'T AMERCIA.

And it's going to stop.

There is a new government for this country coming and it's not going to have torture, "cruel and unusual punishment." It's not going to have "your papers, please," asked by Nazis in this country. NO.



fuck

Alex Jones says: "Vote 'em out. No violence. Git yerself a radio show. Put up a Website."

That ain't gonna work, folks.

If it worked we wouldn't have the problems we have.

It doesn't work with these criminals and Washington and the rest knew a strong corporate group could steal away the wealth and prosperity from the people on the land their fathers fought for and THEY WROTE A SECOND AMENDMENT FOR THAT.

NOT ALL GOVERNMENT CHANGE IN AMERICA IS BY BALLOT ACCORDING TO THE FOUNDING FATHERS AND THE DOCUMENT THEY MADE FOR THEMSELVES AND LEFT TO US.

ARE WE GOING TO LET BUSH AND GONZALASS AND ASHCROFT AND PERLE AND WOLFIE, AND...ENOUGH'S ENOUGH!

Look, these people cannot be voted out.

A country needs to cleanse itself with the resort of the second amendment LAW that no other country has (no other country has a Bill of Rights with a Second Amendment) after the first amendment and PEACEFUL balloting cannot remove criminals from our U.S. offices after you realize you cannot cast a ballot and vote these people out of world power and the power over your life and your country and the futrue of the world and mankind.

With the Patroit Act (named so because it is AGAISNT patriots and the U.S. Constitution and not camel jockeys), torture, the loss of free travel without your "PAPERS," like the Nazis protecting themselve and their crimes. i.e., Kraut: "Vere aer yer papers?" "Are your papers in order." "You may go." "You stay." "We may need to torture, er, talk vit you."

This country is changing BY DESIGN into a Nazi fortress police state and I know this is leading to more wars overseas and war right here at home.

Many people will be killed.


P

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by vhrightnow
If they are confirmed terrorists....torture the hell out of them, and if they die in the process......oh well......they are useless pieces of shit, and NO they do not have rights.......
How old are you?

YOU DON'T TORTURE NOBODY.

AND YOU DON'T WRITE THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE TORTURED BUT FOR YOUR FREEDOM OF SPEECH WHICH DID NOT COME FROM TORTURE, BUT FROM MEN WHO KILLED THEIR OWN COUNTRY'S SOLDIERS TO END THE "CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT" THE REST OF THE WORLD HAD TO DEAL OUT TO PEOPLE.

WE HERE IN AMERICA ARE A DIFFERENT PEOPLE.

ANYONE WHO SAYS TORTURE SOMEBODY IS UNAMERICAN AND A FOOL.

YOU ARE A FOOL.

GONALASS IS A FOOL.

BUSH IS A FOOL.

AND WAR IS COMING, FOOLS.

KEEP WRITING WHAT YOU ARE WRITING AND THINKING AND WAR IS COMING. YOUR WORDS ARE BRINGING IT.

STOCK UP ON AMMO AND YOUR TORTURE TOOLS.

I CAN'T BELIEVE ANYONE POSTED "TORTURE THEM." AND WHO IS TO FUCKING DECIDE WHO IS "A TERRORIST?"

I'M ALREADY A TERRORIST FOR TYPING ON THIS BOARD. DO I GET TO BE "TORTURED?"

ANYTIME YOU PUT IN AN ATTORNEY GENERAL (THIS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE IN AMERICA) INTO OFFICE WHO SAYS "TORUTE IS GOOD AND THE PRESIDENT CAN ORDER TORTURE," ETC., THE END OF YOUR COUNTRY IS HERE.

IT'S HERE.

GET YOUR AMMO AND YOUR TORTURE TOOLS AND WRITE VERY CAREFULLY THE NAME "PHIL." PUT IT ON ALL OF YOUR BULLETS, BECAUSE YOU ARE AN ENEMY OF MY COUNTRY.

AND I OF COURSE AM AN ENEMY OF YOUR "TORTURE" COUNTRY.

YES I AM.


PHIL (kill me to get your torture country and globalism torture - but it's not going to be that easy to kill off me and all of my friends who admire George Washington and dispise torture men like Bush, Gonzalass, and the corporate regimes they get elected into our high offices, even the high office of the President of the United States of America).

PS Torture people. You said, torture people?! I can't believe you said that, and yet I must realize you are for real and I must go out today after reading your words and buy more ammo.

It's coming, folks. With kids typing torture shit like this on a VH message board and Spears making $100 million a year off of 8 year old girls then we've had our goodtimes and we've had our bad times as a nation, and we've had our wars here in North America as a nation, and we will again...

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Little_Skittles
Very good dc i'm glad some americans have common sense left still. Ladies and Gentleman, for all who think torturing terrorists is justified i hope to see all ya'lls in hell.

what are you going in for?

The reason first and foremost is that if ya'lls claiming to be christian that's a big joke (like sesh said). People didn't much care for king herod either but no one thought of torturing him.

Interesting how our most outwardly religious president in decades is the first to be implicated in condoning torture. Pretty hypocritical.

Now you may not like it but if you ask katydid i think she will agree that these people are our brothers and sisters in christ. And IF they accept jesus christ as their lord and savior before they die guess what?

You need to realize that no one gives a fuck what katydid thinks.

Jihad the way we interept it is holy war the original meaning in effort of god's service.

You are correct in your definition of Jihad. I'm impressed. Quit letting Katydid get in your head and you'll be alright.

[BigBadBrian]

http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/content/100738.jpg

[ODShowtime]

No, Ted Kennedy didn't smear our good name in front of the entire world, get it right.

[Nickdfresh]

Again, all I hear is the same macho reactionary bullshit rhetoric regarding torture. Without debating the morality of the use of methods that the Israelis used to call "physical pressure," lets get to the bottom of some other issues here that the Neo Cons never seem to address:

A.) This administration could get a way with murder if they had any sort of competence. We a confusing the Oil War in Iraq with the wider war on terror. Top secret special ops. teams have used "physical pressure" against al-Qaida suspects with near impunity. But it was only when we invaded Iraq that these methods were exposed. Why is that?

Is this not a signal of how dangerous the callous use of such methodologies are? We were using torture methods against only the most hardened of our enemies (maybe not such a bad thing?), then is was against ordinary Iraqis. Who else could we rationalize the use of torture against?

B.) SPC Graner is a morally contemptible prick that has been a PR victory for the Iraqi resistance. Whatever one thinks of his actions, he, and his crew of W. Virginians has caused many deaths among their comrades by galvanizing an entire segment or the Iraqi population against us. That's if you believe the cover story. I was skeptical at first, but the more I hear about the Military Judge throwing out evidence in the Graner Court Martial, the more I am beginning to wonder

Does Graner not deserve a fair trial. In everything I have heard in news coverage for this case, it seems the judge has tried to limit much of his defense. His defense centers around the fact that he was just following orders from Military Intelligence so they could "soften up" prisoners to get intel on the resistance. Also, those fun photos of simulated gay sex (pretty disgusting eh CONSERVATIVES??) were actually to be used to blackmail and shame the iraqi males into doing our bidding and were based of some simpleton Neo Con perseptions of Arab culture.

The information is available at this link in an article by Seymour Hersh of The New Yorker magazine.
TheGrayZone (http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14802)

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
A.) This administration could get a way with murder if they had any sort of competence. Top secret special ops. teams have used "physical pressure" against al-Qaida suspects with near impunity. But it was only when we invaded Iraq that these methods were exposed. Why is that?

We were using torture methods against only the most hardened of our enemies (maybe not such a bad thing?), then is was against ordinary Iraqis. Also, those fun photos of simulated gay sex (pretty disgusting eh CONSERVATIVES??) were actually to be used to blackmail and shame the iraqi males into doing our bidding and were based of some simpleton Neo Con perseptions of Arab culture.

Mossad, most likely through Feith's Office of Special Plans, gave us the idea to use sexual blackmail to create informants. This plan was recklessly passed down the chain of command and incompetently executed, resulting in using it WAY TOO MUCH against THE WRONG PEOPLE.

The PR nightmare from this will last as long as the people in this forum do. Thanks rummy!

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by Viking
If we know they're trying to blow up me and my family, I'm all for gassing up the 'ol Iraqi wood chipper if it'll get us some answers.

You turn the other cheek.
ViKunt,

You are a dangerous person, because you are violent and ignorant.

Let me educate you.

Iraqis had NOTHING to do with Oklahoma, 9/11, or blowing you up.

If I hear you've been killed it won't surprise me.

The future is going to get a lot more rough.


P

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Phil theStalker

The future is going to get a lot more rough.


P

Let 'em come. My chainsaw is gassed and ready. :gulp:

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/content/100738.jpg

More douche-ness from the resident douche. Complete with Kennedy conspiract theory!

If it were your kids getting buttfucked, tortured and shit on you'd be singing a different tune.

[vhrightnow]

Originally posted by Phil theStalker
How old are you?

YOU DON'T TORTURE NOBODY.

AND YOU DON'T WRITE THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE TORTURED BUT FOR YOUR FREEDOM OF SPEECH WHICH DID NOT COME FROM TORTURE, BUT FROM MEN WHO KILLED THEIR OWN COUNTRY'S SOLDIERS TO END THE "CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT" THE REST OF THE WORLD HAD TO DEAL OUT TO PEOPLE.

WE HERE IN AMERICA ARE A DIFFERENT PEOPLE.

ANYONE WHO SAYS TORTURE SOMEBODY IS UNAMERICAN AND A FOOL.

YOU ARE A FOOL.

GONALASS IS A FOOL.

BUSH IS A FOOL.

AND WAR IS COMING, FOOLS.

KEEP WRITING WHAT YOU ARE WRITING AND THINKING AND WAR IS COMING. YOUR WORDS ARE BRINGING IT.

STOCK UP ON AMMO AND YOUR TORTURE TOOLS.

I CAN'T BELIEVE ANYONE POSTED "TORTURE THEM." AND WHO IS TO FUCKING DECIDE WHO IS "A TERRORIST?"

I'M ALREADY A TERRORIST FOR TYPING ON THIS BOARD. DO I GET TO BE "TORTURED?"

ANYTIME YOU PUT IN AN ATTORNEY GENERAL (THIS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE IN AMERICA) INTO OFFICE WHO SAYS "TORUTE IS GOOD AND THE PRESIDENT CAN ORDER TORTURE," ETC., THE END OF YOUR COUNTRY IS HERE.

IT'S HERE.

GET YOUR AMMO AND YOUR TORTURE TOOLS AND WRITE VERY CAREFULLY THE NAME "PHIL." PUT IT ON ALL OF YOUR BULLETS, BECAUSE YOU ARE AN ENEMY OF MY COUNTRY.

AND I OF COURSE AM AN ENEMY OF YOUR "TORTURE" COUNTRY.

YES I AM.


PHIL (kill me to get your torture country and globalism torture - but it's not going to be that easy to kill off me and all of my friends who admire George Washington and dispise torture men like Bush, Gonzalass, and the corporate regimes they get elected into our high offices, even the high office of the President of the United States of America).

PS Torture people. You said, torture people?! I can't believe you said that, and yet I must realize you are for real and I must go out today after reading your words and buy more ammo.

It's coming, folks. With kids typing torture shit like this on a VH message board and Spears making $100 million a year off of 8 year old girls then we've had our goodtimes and we've had our bad times as a nation, and we've had our wars here in North America as a nation, and we will again...

Ok first of all I am not a kid.....how to declare a terrorist??? when we pick them up swinging from the fuckin monkey bars in the desert with an ak over their shoulder....these scum do not play by the rules you know.....Ya I know this is America, but these scum do not have the rights that we have......Geneva convention does not apply to terrorists......so it would be better to just ask them if they know anything.....I am sure that would be successful......suppose some of them have voluble information about a future attack??? I would rather get the information out of them at ANY cost... oh and don’t worry about me pal...I got nothing against you or anyone else who is "scared" of people like me.......I do however have problems when shit fucks decide they want to kill Americans those are the people I have problems with....

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by vhrightnow
Ok first of all I am not a kid.....how to declare a terrorist??? when we pick them up swinging from the fuckin monkey bars in the desert with an ak over their shoulder....these scum do not play by the rules you know.....Ya I know this is America, but these scum do not have the rights that we have......Geneva convention does not apply to terrorists......so it would be better to just ask them if they know anything.....I am sure that would be successful......suppose some of them have voluble information about a future attack??? I would rather get the information out of them at ANY cost... oh and don’t worry about me pal...I got nothing against you or anyone else who is "scared" of people like me.......I do however have problems when shit fucks decide they want to kill Americans those are the people I have problems with....

The problem is, if you read the article I linked to, that regardless of what you think of torture and ritualistic sexual humiliation, we didn't limit this to 'terrorists'. Many of those Iraqis were in Abu Ghraib on non-insurgent related offenses.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
It's vile.

Even ignoring the lack of morality torture just makes people tell you want to hear and the next thing you're invading countries unjustifiably.

Not to mention that for every suspect you torture you create another 10 new 'terrorists'.

And for so called christians to support it is a joke.

Fucking-A-RIGHT!

[FORD]

Amnesty for Lyndie England??? The bitch deserves a life sentence for just being an ugly stupid whore. For what she did at Abu Ghraib she deserves the death penalty.

[Nickdfresh]

Prisoners from Iraq's Abu Ghraib escape
Hunt on for 28 missing detainees
Friday, January 14, 2005 Posted: 2:15 PM EST (1915 GMT)


BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Iraqi police searched Friday for 28 prisoners from Abu Ghraib who escaped from their custody while being transported to another facility in Baghdad, police and U.S. military spokesmen said.

Two police officers may have been involved in Thursday night's escape, Iraqi officials said.

The detainees were aboard a bus from the prison to another Iraqi correctional facility, said Lt. Col. Barry Johnson.

Iraqi police said several detainees had their hands bound with rope.

The inmates loosened the rope and managed to overpower the police and guards. One took an AK-47 assault rifle from a police officer and shot the officer, critically wounding him, police said. Four guards and the bus driver were severely beaten, police said.

Handcuffs and rope were found scattered in the street afterward.

The 38 detainees on the bus initially escaped, but Iraqi police said they captured 10 of them shortly afterward.

A source with the Iraqi Interior Ministry said authorities were investigating the trip because it was odd for prisoners to be moved at night with little security.

Officials said they are questioning the detainees who were recaptured.

Iraqi authorities have set up checkpoints in the western Baghdad neighborhood where the escape occurred, the Interior Ministry source said.

Of the 28 escapees, two are believed to be Egyptians. The detainees are accused of committing crimes against Iraqis, ranging from murder to theft.

Other developments

Six people were killed Friday when a minibus carrying Iraqi civilians collided head-on with a U.S. military tank near Muqdadiyah, northeast of Baquba, a military spokesman said. Eight people were injured in the crash, which is under investigation, said Maj. Neal O'Brien of the 1st Infantry Division. (Full story)


A military court in Baghdad on Friday convicted a U.S. soldier of murder and conspiracy to murder, said a spokesman for the Army's 1st Cavalry Division. Staff Sgt. Cardenas Alban shot a wounded Iraqi to death last year in the Sadr City section of Baghdad. (Full story)


Three Kurdish troops were killed Thursday while fighting alongside Iraqi national guard forces against insurgents in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul, a Kurdish Democratic Party official said. The party is one of two main factions of Iraq's Kurdish minority.


Two U.S. Marines were killed in action Thursday "while conducting security and stability operations" in Iraq's western Anbar province, the military said. No details were released. A soldier with the Army's 1st Infantry Division also died in a noncombat incident. The death is under investigation. With the deaths, 1,364 U.S. troops have died in the Iraq war. Of those, 1,076 were killed in combat.


Gunmen opened fire Thursday on a minibus in central Baghdad -- killing all six Iraqis on board -- before abducting a Turkish construction worker, who was waiting for the bus outside a hotel, police said.


Military officials said a soldier with the U.S.-led multinational forces was killed Thursday when a roadside bomb exploded near a patrol in Mosul. Two soldiers were wounded in the blast, officials said.


A car bomb exploded outside a Shiite Muslim mosque in Khan Bani Saad, killing four Iraqi policemen and three civilians, a U.S. military spokesman said. The blast in the town south of Baquba also wounded 30 other people, the spokesman said.


Gunmen killed an election worker Thursday in Baghdad, authorities said, the latest in a series of attacks as the January 30 elections approach. Officials identified the man as Mohammed Jassem Oubadi, a member of the Baghdad City Council and director of the voting station in the Khadmiye neighborhood.

CNN's Arwa Damon and Mohammed Tawfeeq contributed to this report.

CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/01/14/iraq.main/index.html)
U.S. troops survey the scene Friday after a roadside bomb overturned their armored vehicle in Baghdad.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by FORD
Amnesty for Lyndie England??? The bitch deserves a life sentence for just being an ugly stupid whore. For what she did at Abu Ghraib she deserves the death penalty.

I think you're being extreme, huh? :rolleyes:

She took a few Islamofascists on a walk. What's the big deal? Maybe we can get her to lead your lard butt to exercise. :D

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by vhrightnow
Ok first of all I am not a kid.....
Look -- it's called self-defense. If someone wants to kick the shit out of you to jack you (kill and rob you) at a phone booth in Cleveland you have the right to defend yourself like that anywhere in the world.

And that's just what the Iraqis are doing right now to the U.S. who have been jacking THEM, killing them and robbing them of oil, since a pre-emptive, illegal invasion based on a bad guess.

I am glad people of your intellect have learned to type and try to be involved.


P

[Spc. Graner]

I am now prepared for a career in the lucrative war crimes industry. Go Army!

If anyone knows of any Iraqi Sodomization Specialist positions at your company let me know!

Liberals hate America and don't like it much either!

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Spc. Graner
I am now prepared for a career in the lucrative war crimes industry. Go Army!

If anyone knows of any Iraqi Sodomization Specialist positions at your company let me know!

Liberals hate America and don't like it much either!

Aren't you going to be the American SODOMEE in prison now?

[Spc. Graner]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Aren't you going to be the American SODOMEE in prison now?

You have never heard a man scream until you have held a lighter to his balls. - US Army Spc. Charles Graner, Jan.16, 2005

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by Spc. Graner
You have never heard a man scream until you have held a lighter to his balls. - US Army Spc. Charles Graner, Jan.16, 2005
You'd better hope they don't torture you then or any of your buddies. They'll want some paybacks, I'm sure. And when a U.S. city gets nuked we'll be sure to thank YOU for it, Chuck.


:spank:

REMEMBER WHAT GONZALASS SAYS:
"It's not torture if it's not to death, and even if death occurs
it's not tortured to death if there was no 'intent' to torture to death..."
And he said, "The President is above the Constitution and CAN order torture."
yeh, just like George Washington did, yeh,
STORM TROOPERS TO IRAN
AND SYRIA NEXT
AND, AND, AND... THEN THE WORLD

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Phil theStalker
yeh, just like George Washington did, yeh,
STORM TROOPERS TO IRAN
AND SYRIA NEXT
AND, AND, AND... THEN THE WORLD

Don't worry Phil, we seem to be running short of Storm Troopers.

[Spc. Graner]

Originally posted by Phil theStalker
You'd better hope they don't torture you then or any of your buddies.

Phil,

Now is the time where a man asks himself... What is more important my ethics or my survival?

You can save all the canned food you want in your Y2K kit that you ordered from Art Bell. In the end, the powerful shall win.

You might as well accept Jesus while you still can! And privities Social Security NOW!

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Spc. Graner
Phil,

Now is the time where a man asks himself... What is more important my ethics or my survival?

Fatbody, that would be a fine question, if you knew who to trust.