Should Canada Accept American Deserters?

[Full Bug]

It's not his war

U.S. deserters put their faith in Canada

By Jason Botchford, Toronto Sun

Hundreds of American soldiers are preparing to come to Canada if this country again opens its doors to war resisters.

Toronto lawyer Jeffry House, who is representing Jeremy Hinzman's landmark refugee case, said 200 have contacted him alone, mostly since George W. Bush was re-elected in November, looking for a way out.

Darrell Anderson knows why.

Seven months in combat

After serving in combat in Baghdad for seven months, the 22-year-old Kentucky-bred soldier turned his back on his home, his family -- including his 4-year-old daughter -- and his country to come to Toronto two weeks ago so he didn't have to go back to Iraq and train his gun on one more innocent child.

He is the most recent soldier to desert the American army and come to Canada

At home in Lexington, KY, over Christmas, Anderson read about Hinzman, a paratrooper turned Iraq-war-deserter, who is waiting for a Canadian tribunal to decide next month whether he is a refugee for refusing to fight.

"I saw his story and I saw hope for me," Anderson said. "I was not going back to Iraq to kill innocent people. I couldn't see myself making another decision. I didn't want to live a life where I was hiding in my own country."

House, himself a Vietnam draft dodger, said there are many others like Anderson waiting for the results of Hinzman's landmark case. Never before has there been a Canadian case dealing with American deserters.

"There are a lot people contacting me, wanting to know what would happen if they came to Canada," House said. "They are looking for ways out."

An estimated 5,500 men and women have deserted since the invasion of Iraq, reflecting Washington's growing problems with troop morale.

Anderson is the most recent soldier to come here. He is one of six known American military deserters who fled to Canada rather than go to war or face jail terms. All of them insist they were acting responsibly by refusing to fight what they all call an unjust war.

Anderson made his decision after going home at Christmas following seven months of combat in Iraq, where he won a bravery medal.

"It is just so intense in Iraq," Anderson said. "Many people will face the same question I had. I asked myself, 'Can I die over there? Can I go back and fight this unjust war?' "

The answer two weeks ago, just before Anderson slipped into a car and drove to Canada, was an emphatic ''no.'' But Anderson concedes that his decision was really made for him just about a year ago when he was still in Iraq.

In Baghdad, a car had approached too close to his platoon. He could hear other American soldiers screaming at him to open fire. When the motorist hit the brakes, sparks flew. The intensity piqued. People screamed: "What are you doing? Why aren't you firing?"

Anderson didn't move.

"I felt no threat, I felt the car posed no threat. I wasn't in any danger," Anderson said. "And then the windows rolled down and it was an innocent family. Two parents and some kids in the back. If I would have fired I would have killed innocent kids."

Anderson said he then turned to those fellow soldiers who were screaming at him.

"After that they said, 'Next time you open fire, you do what you're told,' " Anderson said. "They were ordering me to shoot, ordering me to kill innocent people."

Lee Zaslofsky, of Resisters, a Toronto-based group dedicated to helping deserters, is lobbying the government to make it easier for deserters like Anderson to come to Canada.

"We want the government to make it clear that they are going to be welcoming people and allowing them to stay," said Zaslofsky, one of an estimated 60,000 Americans who came here after to dodge the Vietnam War draft. "It's what Canadians want. It's what Canada has done in the past.

"The government should bite the bullet and step up to the plate and do what is right. These are human beings. Do we want to offer them up as sacrifices to the altar of good relations with George Bush?"

During the Vietnam War, Canada had one of the most open immigration policies in the world. People who showed up at the border were given "landed-immigrant" status on the spot. In 1969, Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau instructed immigration officials not to discriminate against applicants because they hadn't fulfilled their military obligations in other countries.

But immigration in Canada now is much more restricted and the country is divided over whether the new era of deserters should be allowed to stay.

Canada's Immigration and Refugee Board has already ruled that Hinzman's claim that the war was illegal was not relevant to his case. The board is expected to determine in March whether Hinzman proved that he would face social persecution if sent home.

The United States Army treats deserters as common criminals, posting them on "wanted" lists with the FBI, state police forces and department of homeland security border patrols.

Unlike the Vietnam era, Canada has not encouraged deserters to seek asylum here and detractors are quick to note that this generation of American troops voluntarily signed up.

Still, there are a large number of people in Toronto willing and ready to help any soldiers who come here.

A group of deserters and old Vietnam War draft dodgers meet every week in Toronto. Sometimes they watch football games, other times they play cards, but all the time they talk about Iraq and the decisions they've made.

Cliff Cornell, 24, came to Toronto Jan. 8. The Arkansas resident was stationed in Georgia. His platoon was to be deployed to Iraq just after this past Christmas. He did not want to go.

He joined the army for a chance at an education but when he saw and heard what was happening in Iraq he made his decision.

He said being able to meet Anderson has helped him immeasurably.

"He wanted to know if it was really as bad as he's heard," Anderson said. "It is. Others ask me that. They want to know if they made the right decision. I tell them how you take your crappy Humvees out in the morning and ride them around Baghdad, hoping not to get blown up."

Anderson joined the army when he was in high school. He had just had a daughter, Tatum, and looked to the army as a way to better himself, a way to get an education and care for his family.

By the time he was deployed to Iraq a year ago he had been in training for one year.

"I was ready to die and defend my country thinking it would make a better life for my (now ex-) wife and daughter," Anderson said.

But that changed. During one of the most dramatic sequences Anderson was driving in a howitzer tank. His friend had just dropped down from his lookout position out of the hatch, bleeding and dying in Anderson's lap.

"I had to immediately take the lookout position and my gun was aimed at this kid who was running by," Anderson said. "It looked like he was carrying something. I pulled the trigger but nothing happened. The safety was still on. That's when I saw it was just an innocent kid. I thought, 'What is my country doing to me? What is my country making me do?' "

Anderson later won a medal for bravery during a firefight. He was leaning out the hatch of his howitzer when a bomb landed near by. Shrapnel ripped through his right side.

When Anderson came home for Christmas he said he was lonely. No one could understand what he had seen and survived.

He said it was impossible to talk to strangers, difficult to talk to even his family.

He said deciding to come to Canada was the most difficult decision he's ever had to make.

"I understand the consequences are the most severe," Anderson said. "I may never be able to go to the United States again. I may never be able to go home. But there was no other decision I could make."

The night before he left for Canada, Anderson saw his daughter.

"I told her I love her, I told her that her daddy will always love her."

[Full Bug]

I voted ship them back, if this were a question of soldiers who were drafted I might see it differently....

[FORD]

If any deserters are to be prosecuted, let's start with the one in the White House.

[academic punk]

Canada should accept them with open arms.

Thinking about it from the longview, how's this any different from the family that hid Anne Frank from the Nazis? They're deserting because they don't want to risk being killed for a war they don't believe in.

Maybe they did volunteer, fine. but, come on, these are KIDS who signed up for paintball on the weekends! And if you know anything about the armed forces recruiting techniques, you wonder how much of this is a true "voluntary situation in the first place.

(small, not so-well-known tidbit: one of the provisions of the No Child Left Behind initiative is that schools would supply the armed forces with every students contact info. They call, they come by the house, they essentially seem to harrass these people, largely because they have quotas to meet. And if you go to some of the country's smaller, more impoverished towns, you're FAR more apt to see military recruiting stands rather than college or career opportunities present.)

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by FORD
If any deserters are to be prosecuted, let's start with the one in the White House.

You're about six years too late with this post, FORD. :gulp:

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by academic punk
Maybe they did volunteer, fine. but, come on, these are KIDS who signed up for paintball on the weekends!

Bullshit!

[Nickdfresh]

They didn't voluteer for the National Guard or the Reserves to be sent to some God forsaken patch of sand as full-time occupation troops!

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Bullshit!

Exactly. Fucking paintball? Give me a FUCKING break. :gulp:

[FORD]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
They didn't voluteer for the National Guard or the Reserves to be sent to some God forsaken patch of sand as full-time occupation troops!

Nor were they trained to do so. Which essentially makes them sitting ducks.

[academic punk]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Bullshit!

To some extent, it's true. And to the extent of the Reservists at my college (back in 88 through 92, so it was a different political climate, but it WAS in the era of the first Gulf War, so the atmosphere waas there), it's ABSOLUTELY true.

These were guys and girls who were only so aware of their choice as to think that this was a means to help pay for college, SO THEY CAN GET A DIPLOMA, EARN A CAREER, AND GET ON WIHT THE REST OF THEIR LIVES.

And I was essentially paraphrasing one of them, who used to kid, "Up, paintball weekend, better practice my war face."

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by FORD
Nor were they trained to do so. Which essentially makes them sitting ducks.

How do you know what they were trained for ??

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by ELVIS
How do you know what they were trained for ??

I was in the U.S. Army Reserve and the difference between the USAR after serving in the regular Army was stark as night as day. I just pity those poor bastards if they have the same overall low quality of officers and senior NCOs leading them. I found Reserve officers to have an imperious and petty lot with an arrogant demeanor. I found this difficult to swallow because most of the active Army officers I met went out of their way to "lead by example" as the cliche' goes whereas, for example, I had an USAR Off. "order" me to clean up their desks for them.

Also, the USAR and Nat'l Guard are issued second rate, semi-obsolete hand-me-down equipment. Granted these guys go through specific training before they are shipped out to Iraq, but still the psychological impact of being treated virtually as a regular troop must be very difficult when many must take pay cuts and risk losing their civilian careers.

The bottom line is these guys are being ground down gradually. I think we may start to see the same post-Vietnam era problems in a few years, and that is if we don't have to resort to a draft if we get into a fight with Iran.

[academic punk]

Well, Elvis is right: they ARE trained.

Among other things, they're BRAINWASHED to think like KILLERS, to get that killer instinct.

anyone ever shiver at night a) for their souls, and b) for the ramificaitons this is going to have for our country in the coming years?

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I was in the U.S. Army Reserve and the difference between the USAR after serving in the regular Army was stark as night as day. I just pity those poor bastards if they have the same overall low quality of officers and senior NCOs leading them. I found Reserve officers to have an imperious and petty lot with an arrogant demeanor. I found this difficult to swallow because most of the active Army officers I met went out of their way to "lead by example" as the cliche' goes whereas, for example, I had an USAR Off. "order" me to clean up their desks for them.

Also, the USAR and Nat'l Guard are issued second rate, semi-obsolete hand-me-down equipment. Granted these guys go through specific training before they are shipped out to Iraq, but still the psychological impact of being treated virtually as a regular troop must be very difficult when many must take pay cuts and risk losing their civilian careers.

The bottom line is these guys are being ground down gradually. I think we may start to see the same post-Vietnam era problems in a few years, and that is if we don't have to resort to a draft if we get into a fight with Iran.


I hear you...

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by academic punk
Well, Elvis is right: they ARE trained.

Among other things, they're BRAINWASHED to think like KILLERS, to get that killer instinct.

anyone ever shiver at night a) for their souls, and b) for the ramificaitons this is going to have for our country in the coming years?

Hmmm...

[Full Bug]

Originally posted by academic punk
Canada should accept them with open arms.
Thinking about it from the longview, how's this any different from the family that hid Anne Frank from the Nazis? They're deserting because they don't want to risk being killed for a war they don't believe in.

Coming this to Anne Frank and the Nazis is insane, talk about jumping from one extreme to another....Why should we have to accept them, we already accept every idiot who flushes his passport down the toilet of a airplane....We arent talking Draft Dodgers here....

[academic punk]

Originally posted by Full Bug
Coming this to Anne Frank and the Nazis is insane, talk about jumping from one extreme to another....Why should we have to accept them, we already accept every idiot who flushes his passport down the toilet of a airplane....We arent talking Draft Dodgers here....


Allow me to clarify: I am not at all comparing our government to Nazi Germany. I am simply saying that these are people who have NO interest in risking thier lives and limbs for this particular cause.

There have been plenty of people who have volunteered for the army in the past 4 years because they believe in this cause. If someone doesn't, however, then they shouldn't be there...period.

And if they are put in a situation where they're told "you have to" well, I can't blame them for saying "I no longer believe in this country".

(I find it a pretty bizarre argument when what I'm essentially being told is "They volunteered, they made a choice, and now they no longer have a choice."

these aren't mindless drones or robots, they're KIDS.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by academic punk
Allow me to clarify: I am not at all comparing our government to Nazi Germany. I am simply saying that these are people who have NO interest in risking thier lives and limbs for this particular cause.

There have been plenty of people who have volunteered for the army in the past 4 years because they believe in this cause. If someone doesn't, however, then they shouldn't be there...period.

And if they are put in a situation where they're told "you have to" well, I can't blame them for saying "I no longer believe in this country".

(I find it a pretty bizarre argument when what I'm essentially being told is "They volunteered, they made a choice, and now they no longer have a choice."

these aren't mindless drones or robots, they're KIDS.

Kids? That is utterly ridiculous. They are adults, pure and simple. They entered into a contract and must abide by it. This isn't High School where Mommy and Daddy can pull some strings and get little junior out of trouble in the Principal's office. Grow up and realize that signing your name to a contract has CONSEQUENCES.

[academic punk]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Kids? That is utterly ridiculous. They are adults, pure and simple. They entered into a contract and must abide by it. This isn't High School where Mommy and Daddy can pull some strings and get little junior out of trouble in the Principal's office. Grow up and realize that signing your name to a contract has CONSEQUENCES.


Waitwaitwait...consequences are things as small as your girlfriend breaking up with you b/c you cheated on her, to as big as receiving a jail sentence for murdering someone.

This is "Hey, you. Wear this gun, and get out there."

If someone joined the army b/c the recruiter (unethically, to meet his quota) told him, "Hey, you're interested in working with computers, not so much the rifle? No problem. We can absolutely take care of that." and then sudden;y is being told the EXACT opposite, well, I'd walk away too.

If you were hired at a corporate office as a computer engineer and suddenly you were being told, "Hey, every third Tuesday, you've gotta clean the toilets", I would assume you quite rationally would quit immediately and find new employment elsewhere.

(and this isn't about cleaning toilets. This is being told to kill and possibly be killed. It's very easy for you in your armchair to take your position)

[academic punk]

And I don't see how you can call someone a full-blast "adult" when they aren't even old enough to legally drink.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by academic punk
Waitwaitwait...consequences are things as small as your girlfriend breaking up with you b/c you cheated on her, to as big as receiving a jail sentence for murdering someone.

This is "Hey, you. Wear this gun, and get out there."

If someone joined the army b/c the recruiter (unethically, to meet his quota) told him, "Hey, you're interested in working with computers, not so much the rifle? No problem. We can absolutely take care of that." and then sudden;y is being told the EXACT opposite, well, I'd walk away too.



academic punk, you absolutely have no idea how the military works. Once you are in, you are in. You just cannot walk away. No way Jose. It doesn't work like that. If they do that, they are facing severe disciplinary measures up to and including a court martial and jail time. If you are recruited for one job speciality, they CAN change your job without your permission and you DO NOT necessarily have the right to quit until your enlistment runs out.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Kids? That is utterly ridiculous. They are adults, pure and simple. They entered into a contract and must abide by it. This isn't High School where Mommy and Daddy can pull some strings and get little junior out of trouble in the Principal's office. Grow up and realize that signing your name to a contract has CONSEQUENCES.

What about the Military's patently deceptive policies, and their violation of people's contracts by illegally recalling them?

[academic punk]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
academic punk, you absolutely have no idea how the military works. Once you are in, you are in. You just cannot walk away. No way Jose. It doesn't work like that. If they do that, they are facing severe disciplinary measures up to and including a court martial and jail time. If you are recruited for one job speciality, they CAN change your job without your permission and you DO NOT necessarily have the right to quit until your enlistment runs out.


I DO know how the military works. And, yes, I do agree with jail time for people who decide that they do not wish to take part in what they are being told to do. (and that goes back to my point earlier: some recruiters don't necessarily REVEAL that what you think you're getting into doesn't mean it'll remain like that.)

And, look, there's the trade-off: you want out, that measn you're either going to serve jail time, or leave your family and country.

simple. in my world, my first priority is me and mine. vcall it selfish, but i don't want ot die for someone else's noble cause, I'll die for my own, thanks much.

(this is also all framed with the fact that I happened to be lucky to be born to parents in a tax bracket where the military wasn't my only option for a career or for financing college.)(and, though i'm happy about that, i definitely see how it's not at all fair to other less fortunate people)

[Full Bug]

"in my world, my first priority is me and mine. vcall it selfish, but i don't want ot die for someone else's noble cause, I'll die for my own, thanks much."
Good thing the troops didnt feel the way you do during WWII AP, the guys storming the beaches would have run the other way, your an insult to every veteran that had the luck to come home from the wars....You think those guys wanted to be there?

[academic punk]

WWII bears NO comparison to this warm, so get your head out of your ass.

As you say, true, some troops don't feel the same as me at all. Then again, some troops do. Some of their parents do. Some of their widows do. Some of their children WILL.

My comments should not be construed as a slam towards the troops. It's my personal feeling towards the grounds for our occupation.


BTW, it's good to know you're such a deep patriot and believe so much in the laws of this country that you have a walking marijuana leaf on your avatar.

[Cathedral]

Some people can do it, others can't, that has to be respected.

As for the border jumping, if you were to apply today to get citizenship in Canada there is a two year wait for those applications to be processed.
That means that by the time all the jumpers figure out how fucking stupid and childish they were being with such a dumb-ass knee jerk reaction, their shame will follow them wherever they go.

But since it's all voluntary service in the first place, you go where your commander and chief sends you while keeping your mouth shut, yes sir, no sir, comes to mind.

Peace be to you all!

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Full Bug
"in my world, my first priority is me and mine. vcall it selfish, but i don't want ot die for someone else's noble cause, I'll die for my own, thanks much."
Good thing the troops didnt feel the way you do during WWII AP, the guys storming the beaches would have run the other way, your an insult to every veteran that had the luck to come home from the wars....You think those guys wanted to be there?

In WWII, the Hitler declared War on the U.S. in one of the most monumentally stupid moves ever, about a week after Pearl Harbor. I can't speak from the Canadian perspective, but it does seem that the U.K. was facing annihilation after the fall of France, a different historical context completely!

[Full Bug]

Originally posted by academic punk

BTW, it's good to know you're such a deep patriot and believe so much in the laws of this country that you have a walking marijuana leaf on your avatar.
What the hell does that have to do with anything? That makes me unpatriotic? Your a idiot.....:rolleyes:

[academic punk]

Originally posted by Full Bug
What the hell does that have to do with anything? That makes me unpatriotic? Your a idiot.....:rolleyes:

You're saying, "fight for god and country", right?

Okay, to fight for your country is to uphold and believe in its' laws. That is what a country IS: a land with a constitution and adefined series of laws.

You obviously have an opposing view to the existing one in this country in regards to marijuana usage and proselytization. So, in the broadest of sweeping generalisations, how's that different from a twenty year old BOY running across the border because he doesn't belive in the rules that he's supposed to play by?

Whatever. I don't usually wish ill on someone, but I kinda really do hope you get busted. And that I get to be the prosecting attorney.

[Full Bug]

Originally posted by academic punk

I don't usually wish ill on someone, but I kinda really do hope you get busted. And that I get to be the prosecting attorney.
Thats the funniest shit I have read all day, thanx for the laugh....

[Angel]

Originally posted by academic punk
You obviously have an opposing view to the existing one in this country in regards to marijuana usage and proselytization. So, in the broadest of sweeping generalisations, how's that different from a twenty year old BOY running across the border because he doesn't belive in the rules that he's supposed to play by?

Whatever. I don't usually wish ill on someone, but I kinda really do hope you get busted. And that I get to be the prosecting attorney.

I'm sure he doesn't give a shit about your marijuana laws, our CANADIAN views are much different than yours. Unless he's operating a HUGE grow op, he won't get busted or prosecuted. As for 20 year old BOYS? Sorry, 20 years old is a man up here, and yes old enough to drink as well.

In case you haven't figured it out yet, Bug is Canadian. We smoke pot... big FUCKING deal! ;)

[Full Bug]

Originally posted by Angel
I'm sure he doesn't give a shit about your marijuana laws, our CANADIAN views are much different than yours. Unless he's operating a HUGE grow op, he won't get busted or prosecuted. As for 20 year old BOYS? Sorry, 20 years old is a man up here, and yes old enough to drink as well.

In case you haven't figured it out yet, Bug is Canadian. We smoke pot... big FUCKING deal! ;)
Ha! I knew you would show up in this thread sooner or later....:D
He's just pissed because we grow better weed then him....:p
That line he said about how he hopes I get busted was great, added that to my sig....:cool: \
Maybe he is the dick that busted Dave for his bunk weed....

[Angel]

Originally posted by Full Bug
Ha! I knew you would show up in this thread sooner or later....:D
He's just pissed because we grow better weed then him....:p
That line he said about how he hopes I get busted was great, added that to my sig....:cool:

Laughed my fucking head off, that's for sure! I fucked up on my vote though, I accidentally hit we should keep them. This is where you see my conservative side kick in. Don't even let them cross the fucking border - and shoot them if they try. Like you, Bug, I may feel different if it was a draft, but they made their choice. ;)

[Full Bug]

Originally posted by Angel
This is where you see my conservative side kick in. Don't even let them cross the fucking border - and shoot them if they try. Like you, Bug, I may feel different if it was a draft, but they made their choice. ;)
You surprise me, I thought you would lean the other way since we havent agreed on much when it comes to politics, your a gal after my own heart...;) :cool:

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by academic punk
Among other things, they're BRAINWASHED to think like KILLERS, to get that killer instinct.

anyone ever shiver at night a) for their souls, and b) for the ramificaitons this is going to have for our country in the coming years?

Yes to A and B. "Allah" understands that the power and responsibility of democracies lies in its people.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Grow up and realize that signing your name to a contract has CONSEQUENCES.

It's good that people abide by the contracts they sign. Our government right now shows them that you don't have to do that if you don't want to.

Catch 22

[Angel]

Originally posted by Full Bug
You surprise me, I thought you would lean the other way since we havent agreed on much when it comes to politics, your a gal after my own heart...;) :cool:

I'm extremely liberal when it comes to rights and freedoms, and extremely conservative when it comes to immigration and crime. Now, you should never be surprised anymore! :cool:

[Full Bug]

Originally posted by Angel
. Now, you should never be surprised anymore! :cool:
Women continue to surprise me, and always will I guess.....:D
I havent had any good Western bud in awhile, care to send me some? Its Febuary, need something to fight off the winter blahs...:D

[Angel]

Originally posted by Full Bug
Women continue to surprise me, and always will I guess.....:D
I havent had any good Western bud in awhile, care to send me some? Its Febuary, need something to fight off the winter blahs...:D

Get off your ass and get out here. Jobs by the dozen right now! ;)

[Full Bug]

Originally posted by Angel
Get off your ass and get out here. Jobs by the dozen right now! ;)
Screw that, its too damm cold out there...Although winter here hasnt been much better....I think I should move to Calgary, they seem to have a heat wave over there....Would rather live there anyway...

[Angel]

WHAT??? It's freaking +10 right now! Damn, you're sounding like a Toronto pussy now... Remember, its a dry cold ;) :cool:

[WACF]

LOL....

[Full Bug]

Originally posted by Angel
WHAT??? It's freaking +10 right now! Damn, you're sounding like a Toronto pussy now...
Dont make me hit ya with my touque women.....;)

[Full Bug]

Originally posted by WACF
LOL....
What are you laughing at? You wouldnt know back bacon if it climbed in your bed with ya.....;) :D

[academic punk]

Originally posted by Full Bug
Ha! I knew you would show up in this thread sooner or later....:D
He's just pissed because we grow better weed then him....:p
That line he said about how he hopes I get busted was great, added that to my sig....:cool: \
Maybe he is the dick that busted Dave for his bunk weed....

Pretty good comeback, if I do say so myself.

[academic punk]

But just so we're clear: my point was you - if you were a United States Citizen - say these laws are good, but this one isn't, so fuck the people who don't agree with the laws I like (military laws, and, of the pople who I know who've been through it, though some don't regret the experience, NONE of them have said they would do it again if they had the chance, so I am sympatheitc to those - simply from economic circumstance wind up in this very bad commitment to do anything I'm told to for the next god knows how long), but then, hey, I'm too laid back for the military, but I'm just right to get stoned, so I'm gonna sit right back and say "ef the man"and do as I like. Sweet.

Enjoy your grass. I envy you.

But then again, don't forget who's covering your pansy canadian asses at night.

[WACF]

Originally posted by Full Bug
What are you laughing at? You wouldnt know back bacon if it climbed in your bed with ya.....;) :D

I thought it was funny...still do.
I was thinking about when the Military had to use it's budget to bail you guys out.

Never had back bacon in bed but I will admit to once having something kinda porky while under the influence..

Plus 6 here on the prairies and loving it!!!!
Usually you guys have warmer temps than we do.
We just had to endure a couple weeks of -30 with windchills into the -40/50s.