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ODShowtime
02-03-2005, 11:54 AM
American Police State

Abandoning Liberty; Gaining Insecurity

By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS

02/01/05 -- Should Americans have to give up the Bill of Rights in order to be "safe" from terrorists? Actually, it doesn't matter what Americans think. The trade has already been made--and without any input from the people. The "democracy" that America is exporting is in fact a Homeland Security State with more surveillance powers than Saddam Hussein.

Americans no longer have any privacy from government. You may not be able to find out about your daughter's abortion or your son's college grades, but neither you nor your children have any secret whatsoever from your government. Banks, airlines, libraries, credit card companies, medical doctors and health care organizations, employers, Internet providers, any and everyone must turn over your private information at government demand.

Government demand no longer means a court approved warrant. A myriad of intelligence, security, military, and police agencies can on their own volition mine your personal data and feed it into data banks. Your democratic government does not have to tell you. Your bank, library, etc., are forbidden to tell you.

The government can monitor you as you use your computer, noting the web sites that you visit and reading the emails that you send and receive. Americans have privacy rights only against intrusions by private individuals and private organizations.

In 2000 Larry Stratton and I published a book documenting the erosion of all of the legal principles that protect the innocent: no crime without intent, the attorney-client privilege, due process, and the prohibitions against retroactive law and self-incrimination. The law was lost before the September 11 terrorist attack on the US.

The Patriot Act and executive branch decrees have put paid to habeas corpus. The government can pick up anyone it wishes and hold them as long as it wishes without evidence or trial. The government can torture those so detained if it wishes or murder them and say it was a suicide. Saddam Hussein may have indulged in these practices in a more thorough-going way than the US Homeland Security State has to date, but there are no essential differences in the police state powers.

While granting an element of truth, readers may see rhetorical overstatement in these words. This is because they believe, mistakenly, that the Supreme Court reined in the government in its rulings last June 28 on permitted treatment of "enemy combatants." However, as Harvey Silverglate has pointed out, this is not the case.

Silverglate's analysis shows that the Supreme Court's rulings "preserve the look and feel of liberty while sacrificing its substance." The rulings left the government with enough flexibility to prevail. One ruling created for the government a flexible due process standard invoking, in the Court's words, "the exigencies of the circumstances" and creating "a presumption in favor of the Government's evidence." Silverglate notes that this ruling overthrows a defendant's presumption of innocence that formerly could be overcome only by evidence proving guilt beyond reasonable doubt.

Another of the Supreme Court's rulings supported the government's position that a US citizen can be declared an enemy combatant and held without charge. Justice O'Connor found support for the demise of habeas corpus in the Authorization for the Use of Military Force passed by Congress after the September 11 attacks.

Defenders of the new American police state emphasize that the government's new powers only apply to terrorists. This is disingenuous. The government decides who is a terrorist and does not need to present evidence to back its decision. The person on whom the arbitrary decision falls can be held indefinitely. This is a return to the pre-Magna Carta practice of executive arrest.

Are Americans in such danger of terrorist attacks that they needed to give up legal protections won over eight centuries of struggle against the arbitrary power of governments? Surely not.

Terrorists have achieved their aims. Bringing down the World Trade Center towers gave them a great propaganda victory. Any other American target would be anti-climatic. The US invasion of Iraq gave them an opportunity for revolution in the Middle East--the real focus of their energy.

What Osama bin Laden and others of his persuasion desire is a unified Islamic Middle East shorn of US bases and puppet rulers. The US invasion of Iraq has brought Shias to power and created a Shia crescent from Iran to Lebanon. The ground is shaking under the perches of US puppets in Egypt, Jordan and Pakistan. The US demonstration of "shock and awe" in Iraq sealed Muslim hearts and minds against America and opened them to bin Laden.

The Bush administration handed these enormous opportunities to bin Laden on a silver platter. These opportunities, not terrorism in America, will absorb the energies of those seeking to build a new Islamic world in the Middle East.

Americans fearful of terrorism should keep in mind that their country is a very large place. If further terrorist attacks occur, very few Americans are likely to witness them except on TV. The police, however, are everywhere, and like all bureaucracies will have to show results for their new powers. If no real terrorists show up, our protectors will invent them, or they will interpret their powers expansively and apply them to ordinary felonies.

For example, Child Protective Services was set up on the pretense that child abuse was rampant. It was not, so the vast bureaucracy has had to invent its clients. Playground and sports bruises, injuries from falls and accidents all become evidence of child abuse, justifying CPS seizure of children from parents.

RICO, the Racketeer Influenced Corrupt Organizations Act, was only supposed to apply to the Mafia, but quickly jumped outside these bounds. Asset forfeiture was only supposed to be used against drug barons, but has mainly been used to seize the property of Americans unconnected to the drug trade.

Americans might never again experience a domestic act of terrorism except from their own police state.

Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration. He was Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal editorial page and Contributing Editor of National Review. He is coauthor of The Tyranny of Good Intentions.He can be reached at: pcroberts@postmark.net

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7951.htm

YAWN
02-04-2005, 12:21 AM
Interesting read. The return of McCarthyism - scary concept and one that has, unfortunately, been brewing for quite some time, even before Roberts was an Administration staffer. Still... the closing arguments border on asinine, particularly involving CPS. Child Protective Services, while far from perfect, was set up to protect children from child abuse, regardless of the proliferation of the issue. And complaining that RICO is used beyond the mafia is akin to blasting the basic speed law because it doesn't only apply to street racers. And the statement "Americans fearful of terrorism should keep in mind that their country is a very large place" is absolutely inane. I realize that his point is that it most likely wouldn't affect Joe Jack directly and personally, as the "police state" very likely would, but the insinuation that the far-reaching effects of further terrorist attacks - regardless of locality - wouldn't hit nearly every citizen on some level is ludicrous, and while the scenario relies on the assumption of an attack actually occurring, so too does his counterpoint rely on the supposition that absence of one will force law enforcement agencies into drastic accross-the-board action without repercussions or exposure from an increasingly liberal media.

FORD
02-04-2005, 12:33 AM
Except there is no LIBERAL media left to expose it. Which is exactly why the police state HAS been a success thus far. Fascism is corporatism and the corporatists own the media.

YAWN
02-04-2005, 12:39 AM
...which is why you need a freaking blog, dammit!!! LOL

In this society, does corporate media ownership truly continue to dictate content? What prevents the supposed "liberal" media outlets such as CNN, CBS News, Michael Moore, etc. from continuing to press forward on exposure? Pundits preaching the dangers of such a society are given ample face time on the networks... is it the wrong people? Are they simply carefully chosen to give the impression of fairness with inevitable failure, a la John Kerry being figureheaded in '04?

ELVIS
02-04-2005, 12:51 AM
Howard dean is here to save the day, YAWN...

Just ask FORD...

FORD
02-04-2005, 02:27 AM
CNN ceased to be anything remotely resembling "liberal" or even "centrist" when they were taken over by AOL.

As for CBS, they just announced today that they are replacing Dan Rather with Bob Schieffer, whose brother is a BCE ambassador! Liberal?? I don't think so.

Michael Moore is a film maker, and a writer. He puts out a movie every 2-3 years and a book every year or so, plus what he publishes on his own web site. He's certainly a strong voice for us good guys, but not exactly a media mogul.

Maybe he should be? If Ted Turner does buy back CNN (as it has been rumored) he'll have to hire all the neocon pawns that currently work there - especially Perle's buddy (and former employee) Leslie "Wolf" Blitzer and the Bush fixated Candy COWley.

Give Michael Moore a prime time show. Hell, I'd even encorage them to bring back the original Crossfire. Pat Buchanan would be alright with me to represent the conservative viewpoint - since he's one of the few actual conservatives left these days.

But this is all beside the point. The BCE is laying the ground for a full on fascist police state, and controlling the media was the first move. They accomplished that even before Junior stole Florida, and it made the rest all that much easier.

JCOOK
02-04-2005, 02:35 AM
God its' good to see FORD in rare form again

ELVIS
02-04-2005, 03:07 AM
Originally posted by FORD
CNN ceased to be anything remotely resembling "liberal" or even "centrist" when they were taken over by AOL.

As for CBS, they just announced today that they are replacing Dan Rather with Bob Schieffer, whose brother is a BCE ambassador! Liberal?? I don't think so.

Michael Moore is a film maker, and a writer. He puts out a movie every 2-3 years and a book every year or so, plus what he publishes on his own web site. He's certainly a strong voice for us good guys, but not exactly a media mogul.

Maybe he should be? If Ted Turner does buy back CNN (as it has been rumored) he'll have to hire all the neocon pawns that currently work there - especially Perle's buddy (and former employee) Leslie "Wolf" Blitzer and the Bush fixated Candy COWley.

Give Michael Moore a prime time show. Hell, I'd even encorage them to bring back the original Crossfire. Pat Buchanan would be alright with me to represent the conservative viewpoint - since he's one of the few actual conservatives left these days.

But this is all beside the point. The BCE is laying the ground for a full on fascist police state, and controlling the media was the first move. They accomplished that even before Junior stole Florida, and it made the rest all that much easier.

Pure evil...

ODShowtime
02-04-2005, 08:43 AM
Originally posted by YAWN
What prevents the supposed "liberal" media outlets such as CNN, CBS News, Michael Moore, etc. from continuing to press forward on exposure? Pundits preaching the dangers of such a society are given ample face time on the networks... is it the wrong people?

I'm pleased to see one of my articles has generated some actual thought!:)


I think the problem is that people with a voice and something to say are easily discredited, mostly by the radio talking heads and FOX news, whose hosts will blatantly ridicule left-leaning voices. The main transgressions of this administration are printed in black and white in newspapers every day and no one does anything about it.

I listed about 6 bullets of how the presidential election in Ohio was a farce, and whats the best that anyone could do to refute them? "It's not illegal to be the secretary of state and the gw re-election chairman at the same time."

Ok... well, it's not illegal for me to rent a semi truck with a 1000 watt PA system and drive around town blaring I Can't Drive 55 and Where Eagles Fly all day, but that doesn't make it right.

BigBadBrian
02-04-2005, 08:56 AM
Originally posted by FORD


Michael Moore is a film maker, and a writer. He puts out a movie every 2-3 years and a book every year or so, plus what he publishes on his own web site. He's certainly a strong voice for us good guys

He's a turd in a dirty punchbowl. :D

LoungeMachine
02-04-2005, 09:01 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
He's a turd in a dirty punchbowl. :D

And he has obviously hit a nerve :D


Wouldn't the world just be a better place if everyone shut their mouth, and got in lock step line behind the pResident and his fine administration/agenda

How unamerican of MM to dare shine a spotlight on lies and hypocrisy:rolleyes:


:D

BigBadBrian
02-04-2005, 09:07 AM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
And he has obviously hit a nerve :D


Wouldn't the world just be a better place if everyone shut their mouth, and got in lock step line behind the pResident and his fine administration/agenda

How unamerican of MM to dare shine a spotlight on lies and hypocrisy:rolleyes:


:D

I've been saying all along that the Dems would be well advised to distance themselves from people such as MM. Polls and surveys after the election indicate he did more to HURT the Democratic cause than help it. :gulp:

LoungeMachine
02-04-2005, 09:13 AM
I don't give 2 shits about the "democratic cause" Michael Moore is a patriot, and I respect him AND his views.

Polls and surveys???

If you want to quote polls and surveys lets talk about the MAJORITY of Americans who were "polled and surveyed" who now believe Iraq was a mistake, the country is headed in the wrong direction, and SS should NOT be in the hands of Wall St.

YAWN
02-04-2005, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by ODShowtime
Ok... well, it's not illegal for me to rent a semi truck with a 1000 watt PA system and drive around town blaring I Can't Drive 55 and Where Eagles Fly all day, but that doesn't make it right.

LMFAO! Dude, dass just wrong.

FORD
02-04-2005, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
I've been saying all along that the Dems would be well advised to distance themselves from people such as MM. Polls and surveys after the election indicate he did more to HURT the Democratic cause than help it. :gulp:

Bullshit. The only ones saying that are those neocon trolls in the DLC. They hate Moore because they are corporatists and he was exposing corporate fraud even before he exposed political fraud.

JCOOK
02-04-2005, 10:36 AM
MM is a big fat self hating troll.

LoungeMachine
02-04-2005, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by JCOOK
MM is a big fat self hating troll.

You being the expert.........:rolleyes:

Nickdfresh
02-04-2005, 08:02 PM
Originally posted by ODShowtime
American Police State

Abandoning Liberty; Gaining Insecurity

By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS

02/01/05 -- Should Americans have to give up the Bill of Rights in order to be "safe" from terrorists? Actually, it doesn't matter what Americans think. The trade has already been made--and without any input from the people. The "democracy" that America is exporting is in fact a Homeland Security State with more surveillance powers than Saddam Hussein.
...



Amerika is fast becoming a "securocracy" (a term coined by Irish journalist Tim Pat Coogan regarding Northern Ireland). The rampant disregard for the law, both in word and spirit, is disturbing to say the least.

Especially when you consider this Admin. will stop at nothing to destroy their enemies to a far greater extent that I have ever seen (like outing your CIA agent wife in retaliation).

In many a Central and South American country during the countless 'dirty wars" that took place, the key aim of the leftist or even rightist terrorists was to force the state to adopt more autocratic means by bombing and killing everything under the sun. The key objective was to spark a mass uprising against a blatantly fascist regime. Of course the regimes did become lawless, fascist states, but they were rarely overthrown.

So in essence, the terrorists did achieve some of their stated objectives. Al-Qaida has been winning in this regard. When Bush utters liberty, he makes me ill.

Big Train
02-04-2005, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by ODShowtime


I think the problem is that people with a voice and something to say are easily discredited, mostly by the radio talking heads and FOX news, whose hosts will blatantly ridicule left-leaning voices.


If these voices had anything of substance to say, they would not be so easily discredited.