A Frightening Message from Inside Islam

[ELVIS]

February 9, 2005 (http://www.mensnewsdaily.com/archive/s/stock/2005/stock020905.htm)



by Barbara J. Stock



A few weeks ago I received an e-mail message from a man who called himself “Tim.” He explained that this was not his real name. “Tim” was using this name so that he could remain anonymous. He needs to stay in the realm of the unknown. Tim is a marked man because he has done the unthinkable--the unforgivable. Tim has left Islam and in doing so, he has become a “kaafir”--an infidel--and an apostate. The Quran says: “Those who believe, then disbelieve, then believe and disbelieve again will never be forgiven by Allah.”

According to the laws of Islam if a Muslim dares leave the faith, he becomes the worst of the worst, an infidel, and a traitor. These poor souls might be killed if discovered and so, they often must move to faraway cities, change their names and pray that they never run into anyone who knew them in their previous life. Allah has stated in the Quran that, “Whoever changes his religion [leaves Islam], execute him.” Being forbidden to leave Islam is one of Islam’s dirty little secrets.

With Tim’s permission, I posted on my website his sobering message. When I received it, I thought it was quite pessimistic. Since that time, I have had lengthy conversations with several Muslims that have given credence to Tim’s words. So much credence, that I feel compelled to give his statement a wider audience.

Here is a sample of Tim’s warning to all “infidels.”

“I was born and raised as Muslim. My whole family is still Muslim. I know every genetic code of Muslim. I know Islamic brain. I live and breathe with them. I am an insider. I left Islam when I understood that Islam is a sick and evil religion. Following is the Islamic message to the West. To the infidels of the West: Constitution for the new Islamic Republic of EU and USA is under construction. We will fight the infidel to death.

Meanwhile:

American laws will protect us.

Democrats and Leftist will support us.

UNO will legitimize us. (United Nations Organization)

CAIR will incubate us. (Council on American-Islamic Relations)

ACLU will empower us. (American Civil Liberties Union)

Western Universities will educate us.

Mosques will shelter us.

OPEC will finance us.

Hollywood will love us.

Koffi Annan will pass politically correct sympathetic statement for Jihadists.”

As ominous as Tim’s warning to non-Muslims is, is it possible that all the dangers he cites would be crushed if moderate Muslims would admit that there is a threat? If these people are truly “moderate” they will be considered weak and will be killed as well. Moderate Muslims seem oblivious to the danger and seem to feel that the mere fact that they are Muslim will protect them. That certainly isn’t helping the Iraqi Muslims.

Perhaps I am being somewhat paranoid, but I have begun to wonder if these “non-violent, moderate” Muslims simply don’t see the danger or are they just remaining silent, biding their time--waiting and multiplying, just as Tim has said. The question is how many are just “waiting?” Tim seems to feel that number is very large. He is in a position to know far better than I.

Tim continues: “ You infidels at this site cannot defeat us. We are 1.2 billion. We will double again. Do you have enough bullets to kill us? On the camera: We will always say, ‘Islam is the religion of Peace.’ We will say, ‘Jihad is actually inner Jihad.’ Moderate Muslim will say there is no link between Islam and Terrorism and the West will believe it because the West is so gullible. Moderate Muslim all over the world will incubate Jihadists by their talk by defending Islam. Using Western Legal system we will assert our Sharia Laws, slowly but surely. We will increase in number. We will double again.”

The conversations I have had over the past few weeks bear out Tim’s warning that moderate Muslims swear there is no link between Islam and terrorists. In fact, the first words of those who write to me say are usually, “Terrorists are not true Muslims” or “Terrorists are not practicing true Islam.” When I point out the words in the Quran damning all “unbelievers” to hell and the very plain and clearly stated orders to “kill all unbelievers,” I am told that I am taking the words “out of context.”

Readers of the Quran may wonder how one can take out of context statements such as: “Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars” or “Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them.” “Christians will be burned in the Fire” seems rather straightforward to me. Yet, the denials come every day. Then, when I question those that contact me, the outrage follows. It has all become quite predictable.

Non-Muslims must understand the definition of “unbeliever.” In Islamic terms, it does not mean someone who does not believe in God. Unbeliever means anyone who does not believe and strictly follow the laws of Islam and Allah.

I am told that it is I that is full of hate and that I hate Muslims. Americans hate Muslims and that is why we hunt them down and kill them all over the world. “ War is ordained by Allah” and “When you fight with disbelievers, do not retreat. Those who do will go to hell,” it is argued, are not words of hate driving Muslims to kill. No, those words are “misunderstood” and twisted by those of us just don’t understand the peace and love that is true Islam.

“Christians hate Muslims!” I am constantly told. Don’t I realize that Jews are the root of all things evil in the world? Israel has waged war on poor Muslims and Arab states for over 50 years. America is just the “slave” of Israel and we do their bidding. The world’s only super-power is a puppet of the tiny Jewish state. Many Muslims tell me this and they absolutely believe it.

There is a constant flow of hate from the Muslim web sites and blogs where the Islamic terrorists in Iraq are still referred to as “freedom fighters” and “martyrs” and Saudi officials are claiming that Osama bin Laden was sent by the evil Jews, thus absolving Saudi Arabia and Islam of any guilt for bin Laden’s actions.

I have read the words of many ex-Muslims and though not all are as frightening as Tim’s words, they all say the same thing: Islam is not a religion of peace but a source of hate and total domination. Most ex-Muslims that I have read just fear for their lives if discovered. Shouldn’t we unbelievers heed their warnings? They have been in the mosques. They have heard the words of hate and war. Are they not in the position to know the heart of Islam better than we?

There is only one flaw in Islam’s plan--the Quran. The plan for world domination is clearly laid out for the followers of Mohammed, including the punishment that awaits those who fail in their mission. “Those who disobey Allah and his messenger will be burnt with fire and suffer a painful doom.” For many who now wage war against us, it is not because they hate us, but because they fear the punishment promised for eternity if they disobey the words of Allah. “Those who deny Allah's revelations must endure the flaming fire.” If you had heard these words every day of your life, what would you believe?




:elvis:

[Sarge's Little Helper]

ELVIS rules!

[Little_Skittles]

Wow a powerful story hmm might just give it to my history teacher and get a day out of class ! :rolleyes: :D

[Nickdfresh]

They sound as superstitious and as irrational as Christian fundamentalists.

[Little_Skittles]

Thanks elvis !

[Nickdfresh]

Interesting how you post this on Islam. What about the frightening messages coming out of your faith?

[Little_Skittles]

don't all religions have freightening messages? Doesn't fear keep us in order ?

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Interesting how you post this on Islam. What about the frightening messages coming out of your faith?

I'm growing tired of frightening you with the truth...

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by Little_Skittles
don't all religions have freightening messages? Doesn't fear keep us in order ?

No darlin'...

A true christian seeks righteousness because of what Jesus Christ personally did for each and every man on earth...


Friut of the spirit:

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law

Galatians 5:22

[Little_Skittles]

but doesn't the bible also say fear god? Or are we talking about a different kind of fear where a child fears getting in trouble because they feel they will make their parents disappointed in them?

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by ELVIS
I'm growing tired of frightening you with the truth...

hypocrite:rolleyes:

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by Little_Skittles
but doesn't the bible also say fear god? Or are we talking about a different kind of fear where a child fears getting in trouble because they feel they will make their parents disappointed in them?

Yes

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Friut of the spirit:

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law

Galatians 5:22

Please list an example of how your Hero GWB has followed this....:rolleyes:

[ELVIS]

I never said he was my hero...

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Interesting how you post this on Islam. What about the frightening messages coming out of your faith?

You're preaching to the Deaf, Dumb, and Blind Nick.

ELVIS only hates other religions.

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
hypocrite:rolleyes:

Pure foolishness...

God bless you...:)

[Little_Skittles]

I don't think that's true but i'll let him speak for himself.

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
You're preaching to the Deaf, Dumb, and Blind Nick.

ELVIS only hates other religions.

I don't hate anyone or their "religion"...

I believe that Christianity is the real truth...

True Christianity is NOT a religion...

It is a true relationship with God through his Son Jesus Christ...

It is about true freedom and real love...


I'm very familiar with other faiths, and islam in particular...

Say what you want, you're only proving the Bible's words with every idiotic post...

Keep on underestimating me and all Christians...

:elvis:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Pure foolishness...

God bless you...:)

God Bless me?

In another thread you told me I'm going to Hell


make up yer mind, I need to know what to pack;)

[Little_Skittles]

I don't think people wear anything coz i've been told we're perfect in heaven and as for hell well i don't know much about it i've been told it's earth.

[ELVIS]

No, I said I believed you were on the highway to hell...

I do believe that...

It doesn't have to be that way, though...

It's your choice...

[Little_Skittles]

or you could sit on the fence but i don't highly recommend that it gets you nowhere and you begin to become bitter at the world and confused.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by ELVIS
No, I said I believed you were on the highway to hell...

I do believe that...

It doesn't have to be that way, though...

It's your choice...

Awwww

ELVIS wants to save me:D

Just to be clear......

If I live a good life, don't harm anyone, give to the poor, raise my kids right, and respect my fellow man, BUT DON'T accept Jesus Christ as my personal Saviour.......in your mind I'm going to hell, right?

[Little_Skittles]

Do you follow god's law?

[ELVIS]

That's basically right...

Jesus is the Son of God, the truth, the light and the WAY!

I believe in the Gospel of Mark It reads something like anyone who denies Christ is antichrist...

The road to hell is paved with good intentions...

[Little_Skittles]

and remember it also says no one can can get to the father without going through the son. You should care that he's trying to save you. Most people wouldn't. Are you that ignorant? do you really not care where you are going to spend eternity?


Yes i do question my beliefs are they true? But know one thing, and that is one day we will stop time and step into eterenity. Where will you be?

[ELVIS]

Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist--he denies the Father and the Son

1 John 2:22

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by ELVIS
That's basically right...



"Basically" ??

It's either right, or wrong:rolleyes:

which is it?

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by ELVIS
February 9, 2005 (http://www.mensnewsdaily.com/archive/s/stock/2005/stock020905.htm)



by Phil the Stalker

ELVIS, you and everybody who watches Fear Factor, that's nothing!

Joe Rogan and I really did it up.

We're both lucky t2o git outta theer wit our heads... literally.

Joe is still sensitive aboot tit. :cool:


=PtS=
:spank:

JOE ROGAN HAS REALLY LIVED<marquee direction=left>

[Little_Skittles]

your sucha smart ass get educated and you might not have to ask questions you know the answer too.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by ELVIS
That's basically right...

Jesus is the Son of God, the truth, the light and the WAY!

I believe in the Gospel of Mark It reads something like anyone who denies Christ is antichrist...

The road to hell is paved with good intentions...

So if Ted Bundy accepted Jesus 5 minutes before the needle slid in.......:rolleyes:

[ELVIS]

That's right...

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by ELVIS
That's right...

ridiculous:rolleyes:


So we can be a mass murderer, but as long as we say the secret password 'Save me Jesus", we got to heaven.


unbelievable

gullible is more like it

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by ELVIS
I'm growing tired of frightening you with the truth...

I'm not frightened by the truth, just of self-serving, power-mongering demagogs. Spare me the Sunday-School/CCD lectures boy. I find much more of God in the writings of Emerson and Thoreau than I ever have in the old testament or the countless phoney-preachers, "stealing money from the sick and the old...well the God I believe in ain't short a' cash mister!" --Bono, RATTLE & HUM.

The people that troll the road to Hell with their good intentions and fertilizer bombs are the ones I fear!

[Little_Skittles]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
ridiculous:rolleyes:


So we can be a mass murderer, but as long as we say the secret password 'Save me Jesus", we got to heaven.


unbelievable

gullible is more like it


you can't just say it you have to mean it with every fiber of your being. other wise your lying to yourself and to god.

[ELVIS]

Sin is SIN!

The wages of sin is death...

All men have sinned and fall short of the glory of God...

God sent his Son that ALL man should have life...

It's that simple...

[Little_Skittles]

Thy father who art in heaven hallowed be thy name thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Lounge i suggest you start reading the bible and become educated. Don't waste your life. Today is ash wensday during lent i suggest you go to church and really think about the direction of your life or lack thereof.

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by Little_Skittles
you can't just say it you have to mean it with every fiber of your being. other wise your lying to yourself and to god.

Thank you, sweetheart!

[Little_Skittles]

your welcome but i'm just trying to speak the truth, spread the good word and help save these people.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Little_Skittles
Thy father who art in heaven hallowed be thy name thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Lounge i suggest you start reading the bible and become educated. Don't waste your life. Today is ash wensday during lent i suggest you go to church and really think about the direction of your life or lack thereof.

katydid? is that you?:rolleyes:

so young, so self righteous

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by ELVIS


God sent his Son that ALL man should have life...



Not even you could explain that one:rolleyes:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I'm not frightened by the truth, just of self-serving, power-mongering demagogs. Spare me the Sunday-School/CCD lectures boy. I find much more of God in the writings of Emerson and Thoreau than I ever have in the old testament or the countless phoney-preachers, "stealing money from the sick and the old...well the God I believe in ain't short a' cash mister!" --Bono, RATTLE & HUM.

The people that troll the road to Hell with their good intentions and fertilizer bombs are the ones I fear!

A-FUCKING-MEN BROTHER NICK:D

God loves you, brother:D

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
katydid? is that you?:rolleyes:

so young, so self righteous

No, more like righteous in the name of the Lord...

You are self righteous...

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Not even you could explain that one:rolleyes:

Yes I can, but It's time for me to head to church...;)

[Little_Skittles]

oh going to get the ashes or just wensday night mass?

[ELVIS]

Regular wednesday service, although it will probably be about the beginning of Lent...

[Little_Skittles]

yup most likely. Wonder what time my evening mass is?

[ELVIS]

Listen...


I try my best to post what I believe are universal truths in the Christian community...

There are other Christians on these boards, and I would like to ask them if anything I have ever posted regarding scripture and Christian beliefs does not line up with the Word of God...

BTW, FORD is very well Bible versed...;)

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by ELVIS
February 9, 2005 (http://www.mensnewsdaily.com/archive/s/stock/2005/stock020905.htm)



by Barbara J. Stock



A few weeks ago I received an e-mail message from a man who called himself “Tim.” He explained that this was not his real name. “Tim” was using this name so that he could remain anonymous. He needs to stay in the realm of the unknown. Tim is a marked man because he has done the unthinkable--the unforgivable. Tim has left Islam and in doing so, he has become a “kaafir”--an infidel--and an apostate. The Quran says: “Those who believe...
I think I used da werd "kaafi" wit Joe.

Dat wuzn't nice.

Dat wuz da wrong place at da wong time, but wuz any crime commiTITed?

All we know is dat a tragedy occurred.


=PtS=
:spank:

JOE REMEMBERS THE FUN

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
A-FUCKING-MEN BROTHER NICK:D

God loves you, brother:D

We know the truth my friend!

"God is in the voices in the street." --James Joyce "Ulysses"

Who needs a church?

[Angel]

Originally posted by Little_Skittles
don't all religions have freightening messages?

I don't believe Buddhism does. :D

[Little_Skittles]

sure but they are more peaceful like.

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by Phil theStalker
I think I used da werd "kaafi" wit Joe.

Dat wuzn't nice.

Dat wuz da wrong place at da wong time, but wuz any crime commiTITed?

All we know is dat a tragedy occurred.


=PtS=
:spank:

JOE REMEMBERS THE FUN
A frightening message from Joe Rogan.

Who is Phil?

And why does Joe want Phil killed?

What's it cost these days t2o kill someo1ne?

i dunno


:spank:

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by Phil theStalker
What's it cost these days t2o kill someo1ne?
:spank:
Would Joe Kill Phil with Joe's own hands?

Would dat be called choking out Phil?

uh uh uh cement overshoes uh uh uh

How many peeps are at da bottom aff Jamiaca Pond swimming wit da little fishies? huh


:spank:

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Phil theStalker
A frightening message from Joe Rogan.

Who is Phil?

And why does Joe want Phil killed?

What's it cost these days t2o kill someo1ne?

i dunno


:spank:

Phil, do your Joe Rogan references have something to do with the Riddler's supposed friendship with him? It's really hard to follow your constant reference to Joe.

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Phil, do your Joe Rogan references have something to do with the Riddler's supposed friendship with him? It's really hard to follow your constant reference to Joe.
Yes.

[Phil theStalker]

I'm going t2o reference Joe Rogan cuntil he becomes a nice mman if tit takes mme da rest aff mmy fakking life.

I mmiss The Riddler.

true dat


:spank:

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Phil theStalker
I'm going t2o reference Joe Rogan cuntil he becomes a nice mman if tit takes mme da rest aff mmy fakking life.

I mmiss The Riddler.

true dat


:spank:

Not to hijack this thread, but doesn't the Riddler post there anymore?

[Pink Spider]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
They sound as superstitious and as irrational as Christian fundamentalists.

Christian fundamentalists complaining about the beliefs of Islamic fundamentalists just miss the irony of it all.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Pink Spider
Christian fundamentalists complaining about the beliefs of Islamic fundamentalists just miss the irony of it all.

It's funny how no one on the extreme right or left can see the forest through the trees!

"Good Christian boy who hated abortion!"
http://www.cnn.com/US/9705/27/mcveigh/mcveigh.mug.lg.jpg
http://members.shaw.ca/summerrain/_images/webphotos/events/oklahoma_bombing.jpg

"Good Islamicist that hates American imperialism and the 'little Eichmans' and wants to protect muslims from the infidels by killing them as well."
http://terrorism.freeservers.com/images/osama.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38052000/jpg/_38052324_bombing150.jpg

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Pink Spider
Christian fundamentalists complaining about the beliefs of Islamic fundamentalists just miss the irony of it all.

See = ELVIS



:D

[Katydid]

Islam Religion goes to the Mosque several times a day...So their religion is serious to them. They go on long pilgramages and beat their backs with lather straps filled with sharp blades.

Anyone who takes them for weak are sadly mistaken...

And from very small children they have been taught to fight the Infidel.

They have been taught to "kill"...

I saw that on a tv documentary...Arafat was praising the schools for teaching it...Small toddlers with weapons and falling and crawling...

SO anyone who don't take this seriously is an idiot, just as Saddam said we were.

They are infilterating all over. They come in and take over the churches, in England they have taken over churches and turning them into mosques. If you notice a lot of the banks and hotels are owned by foreigners. They are buying up the farms and businesses.

Did you know that the Iraqis in the USA were allowed to vote in the elections over there? I read that in a Catholic newspaper.

[Little_Skittles]

yes of course katy but, they ain't so bad. i've many friends who are muslim, and you are right they are anything BUT weak. So old fashioned too.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Katydid
Islam Religion goes to the Mosque several times a day...So their religion is serious to them. They go on long pilgramages and beat their backs with lather straps filled with sharp blades.

Anyone who takes them for weak are sadly mistaken...

And from very small children they have been taught to fight the Infidel.

They have been taught to "kill"...

I saw that on a tv documentary...Arafat was praising the schools for teaching it...Small toddlers with weapons and falling and crawling...

SO anyone who don't take this seriously is an idiot, just as Saddam said we were.

They are infilterating all over. They come in and take over the churches, in England they have taken over churches and turning them into mosques. If you notice a lot of the banks and hotels are owned by foreigners. They are buying up the farms and businesses.

Did you know that the Iraqis in the USA were allowed to vote in the elections over there? I read that in a Catholic newspaper.

Your soul mate speakith Elvis. Maybe you can both be "Dancin' in the Dark."

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Your soul mate speakith Elvis. Maybe you can both be "Dancin' in the Dark."

Why don't you shut up...

Comparing me to Krazy Kate is idiotic...:rolleyes:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Why don't you shut up...

Comparing me to Krazy Kate is idiotic...:rolleyes:

You're right.

Katy is a much better Christian than you, smarter, and less annoying, pretentious, and pious:D

[FORD]

Nice T-shirt that McVeigh has on there. It's partially covered up, but it appears to read "Semper Tyrannis" which is Latin for "thus always to tyrants".

Funny choice for McVeigh, considering his crimes. The phrase was said to be used by Brutus when he assassinated Julius Caesar and also by John Wilkes Booth when he murdered Lincoln.

Oddly enough it's also the state motto of Virginia, where ironically enough, much of the tyrannical BCE power structure (from the CIA to Pat Robertson) is based.

[dawiseone]

Man ...people like you who post shit like that about Islam, makes me wanna puke. First of all . You don't have the slightest idea of what your talking about. Making up some fictious person named Tim to spread your hate is realy pathetic. I am a muslim. Have been for over 25 years now. And I used to be a christian. Don't make baseless quotes about the Quran. Without chapter and verse it makes you look realy stupid. And I can honestly tell you The bible has more hate and disgust in one book than the entire Quran. Read Deut:25:11or ! Corin.11:15 and 14:34 Zech .5:7 Deut.25:5But most importantly Ezek.9:5 and NUM .31:1 You talk about killing the unbelivers look what your god says to do to everyone who disobeyed his laws. All muslims agree that laws and rules given to us by the supreme being are not easily accepted .Most of them seem crule and senseless. But theese rules and laws are for the very exsistance of our human race. They are not ment to delight you.There is no compulsion in religion. But every christin belongs to a diferant denomination. And when asked about certain laws he says .Oh....I don't belive that! Or I don't practice that . I hate to be the barer of bad news . Its all or nothing. There are so many many many things in the bible that the average person has no idea of. God commands women to boil their children for food. To eat dung and drink piss. These commands are in the bible. But you quonder over the unbelivers of the Quran. I can give you quote after quote of horrific things in the bible. That the Quran would not even dare to say. Read the Quran in full not just verses someone tells you too. And maybe one day you will see the true meaning of peace.! Inshallah!

[stratmaster90]

Boil their Children? Eat Dung And drink piss???
Where in the Bible does it say that shit??

[dawiseone]

Ezek.4:12.................2 Kings18:27 Lam.2:20 god command to david in 2 Sam 12:10 Jer. 8:9 Isiah.3 :16

[FORD]

Originally posted by stratmaster90
Boil their Children? Eat Dung And drink piss???
Where in the Bible does it say that shit??


2 Kings 18:27

But Rabshakeh said unto them, Hath my master sent me to thy master, and to thee, to speak these words? hath he not sent me to the men which sit on the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?

I couldn't find anything about boiling children, but this is close enough.....


Deuteronomy 28

53 And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters, which the LORD thy God hath given thee, in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee:

54 So that the man that is tender among you, and very delicate, his eye shall be evil toward his brother, and toward the wife of his bosom, and toward the remnant of his children which he shall leave:

55 So that he will not give to any of them of the flesh of his children whom he shall eat: because he hath nothing left him in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee in all thy gates.

56 The tender and delicate woman among you, which would not adventure to set the sole of her foot upon the ground for delicateness and tenderness, her eye shall be evil toward the husband of her bosom, and toward her son, and toward her daughter,

57 And toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear: for she shall eat them for want of all things secretly in the siege and straitness, wherewith thine enemy shall distress thee in thy gates.

Pretty weird shit Moses was smoking back then.......

[FORD]

Muslim my ass.... this guy is a troll.

No way a random muslim is going to necropost a 2 year old thread

[Nitro Express]

The problem with Islam is they aren't unified. The Sunnis hate the Shites more than they hate the Jews and Christians. The Shites want to take over since Saddam Hussain is out of the picture and Iran is now the big military power.

Plus, Muslims have always been the majority in the middle east but they still can't beat a few million Jews in Israel.

If the west dies it's not because of the Muslims, it's because we did it to ourselves.

[Nitro Express]

It's not about Islam to me. It's about some fuck trying to kill me and my family. I don't care what their religion is or what their motivation is. Dangerouse assholes deserve to die.

Now how do we stop the problem? Look for patterns of behavior and see if there is a pattern. Gee, the people causing the shit are muslim and go to a mosque. Do we investigate more? Duh!

[Baby's On Fire]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Interesting how you post this on Islam. What about the frightening messages coming out of your faith?

LMFAO.

Elvis OWNED as usual.

And the best part he's owned by his own post. :D

[Baby's On Fire]

Originally posted by ELVIS
No darlin'...

A true christian seeks righteousness because of what Jesus Christ personally did for each and every man on earth...


Friut of the spirit:

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law

Galatians 5:22


Jesus? Surely you jest. What about the Tooth Fairy. At least the tooth fairly actually DID something, giving us quarters under our pillow.

What the fuck did Jesus ever do besides bank whores and scam his Apostles?

I mean besides fool idiots like you thousands of years after his death?

Jesus was the ultimate evangelist; 2000 years later his bullshit is still going strong.

And his bullshit is the Holy Bible, which advocates the murder and oppression of non-Christians. Wonderful motherfucking religion, isn't it Elvis.

Righteousness! Gimme a fucking break.

[Baby's On Fire]

Originally posted by ELVIS
I don't hate anyone or their "religion"...

I believe that Christianity is the real truth...

True Christianity is NOT a religion...

It is a true relationship with God through his Son Jesus Christ...

It is about true freedom and real love...


I'm very familiar with other faiths, and islam in particular...

Say what you want, you're only proving the Bible's words with every idiotic post...

Keep on underestimating me and all Christians...

:elvis:


You are one sick, delusional motherfucker.

You're no better than those fucking zealot towel-heads. No difference at all.

[Baby's On Fire]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Awwww

ELVIS wants to save me:D

Just to be clear......

If I live a good life, don't harm anyone, give to the poor, raise my kids right, and respect my fellow man, BUT DON'T accept Jesus Christ as my personal Saviour.......in your mind I'm going to hell, right?

Exactly why I fucking despise Christianity and all religion (except Buddhism).

Not only is religion the true root of all evil, it is the ultimate in hypocrisy.

Fucking disgusting. And not a SINGLE SHRED that any god even exists.

NONE!

[Baby's On Fire]

Originally posted by dawiseone
Man ...people like you who post shit like that about Islam, makes me wanna puke. First of all . You don't have the slightest idea of what your talking about. Making up some fictious person named Tim to spread your hate is realy pathetic. I am a muslim. Have been for over 25 years now. And I used to be a christian. Don't make baseless quotes about the Quran. Without chapter and verse it makes you look realy stupid. And I can honestly tell you The bible has more hate and disgust in one book than the entire Quran. Read Deut:25:11or ! Corin.11:15 and 14:34 Zech .5:7 Deut.25:5But most importantly Ezek.9:5 and NUM .31:1 You talk about killing the unbelivers look what your god says to do to everyone who disobeyed his laws. All muslims agree that laws and rules given to us by the supreme being are not easily accepted .Most of them seem crule and senseless. But theese rules and laws are for the very exsistance of our human race. They are not ment to delight you.There is no compulsion in religion. But every christin belongs to a diferant denomination. And when asked about certain laws he says .Oh....I don't belive that! Or I don't practice that . I hate to be the barer of bad news . Its all or nothing. There are so many many many things in the bible that the average person has no idea of. God commands women to boil their children for food. To eat dung and drink piss. These commands are in the bible. But you quonder over the unbelivers of the Quran. I can give you quote after quote of horrific things in the bible. That the Quran would not even dare to say. Read the Quran in full not just verses someone tells you too. And maybe one day you will see the true meaning of peace.! Inshallah!


Does the Muslim religion not endorse the murder of non-Muslims, albeit in disguised verse?

[Jesus Christ]

Originally posted by Baby's On Fire
And not a SINGLE SHRED that any god even exists.

NONE!

What a ridiculous statement to make, My son. As ye can clearly see, I am right here among you.

Though I agree with thee about the hypocrites who tarnish My name :(

[Baby's On Fire]

Dear Jesus,

Who was your favourite whore you were banging? How much money did you scam from your idiot Apostles?

Are you surprised Judas sold you out? You must have really ripped that ****** off, didn't you.

He was pissed....but you deserved it, I'm sure.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by dawiseone
Man ...people like you who post shit like that about Islam, makes me wanna puke. First of all . You don't have the slightest idea of what your talking about. Making up some fictious person named Tim to spread your hate is realy pathetic. I am a muslim. Have been for over 25 years now. And I used to be a christian. Don't make baseless quotes about the Quran. Without chapter and verse it makes you look realy stupid. And I can honestly tell you The bible has more hate and disgust in one book than the entire Quran. Read Deut:25:11or ! Corin.11:15 and 14:34 Zech .5:7 Deut.25:5But most importantly Ezek.9:5 and NUM .31:1 You talk about killing the unbelivers look what your god says to do to everyone who disobeyed his laws. All muslims agree that laws and rules given to us by the supreme being are not easily accepted .Most of them seem crule and senseless. But theese rules and laws are for the very exsistance of our human race. They are not ment to delight you.There is no compulsion in religion. But every christin belongs to a diferant denomination. And when asked about certain laws he says .Oh....I don't belive that! Or I don't practice that . I hate to be the barer of bad news . Its all or nothing. There are so many many many things in the bible that the average person has no idea of. God commands women to boil their children for food. To eat dung and drink piss. These commands are in the bible. But you quonder over the unbelivers of the Quran. I can give you quote after quote of horrific things in the bible. That the Quran would not even dare to say. Read the Quran in full not just verses someone tells you too. And maybe one day you will see the true meaning of peace.! Inshallah!

I agree about the bible hate. It's a fucking horrendous piece of fiction.

That said surely you can find a better moral framework for your life than the bullshit spouted by an illiterate 6th century pedophile suffering from OCD who flew up to heaven on a flying fucking horse.

Get a grip for fuck sake.

You superstitious people are all crazy.

Cheers!

:gulp:

[Baby's On Fire]

LMAO!

What about the talking snakes?

[Little Lamont]

I never heard of no Baptists hijacking airplanes and flying them into buildings. At least not any from my mama's church. hehehe

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Little Lamont
I never heard of no Baptists hijacking airplanes and flying them into buildings. At least not any from my mama's church. hehehe

No. But they've attempted to hijack the US Air Force, the federal gov't, the Supreme Court, the educational system, etc...

And again, the US has killed, or been somewhat accountable for, the deaths of far more Muslims than they have us...

[Angel]

How many KKK members are baptists???

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by Little Lamont
I never heard of no Baptists hijacking airplanes and flying them into buildings. At least not any from my mama's church. hehehe

That's because going to church doesn't affect baptists behaviour in any way.

[Little Lamont]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
No. But they've attempted to hijack the US Air Force, the federal gov't, the Supreme Court, the educational system, etc...

And again, the US has killed, or been somewhat accountable for, the deaths of far more Muslims than they have us...

Who was it? I'll tell my mama to have them kicked out of her church.

See we're just a small country black church. We have a picnic or two, but whoever did what you said must have went behind the deacon's back.

[Little Lamont]

Originally posted by Angel
How many KKK members are baptists???

Well considering everybody in my mama's church is black... I doubt if there's any. hehehe

[Little Lamont]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
That's because going to church doesn't affect baptists behaviour in any way.

I don't know... It kinda makes me hungry if the preaching goes long.

[Baby's On Fire]

Holier-Than-Thou, self-righteous and hypocritical religious lunatics like Elvis are far more dangerous than any Muslim.

[lonnieg5]

The problem I see here is that everyone is so extreme in their views.

Muslims and Christians can be so radical it's frightening. But so can those who oppose them (Hi Nickdfresh).

Then you get someone like Lamont who makes a joke out of the whole thing while turning a blind eye to the real seriousness of the subject.

The only real solution is acceptance. And if we can't do that, at least stop shouting and ignore each other.

Peace

[Baby's On Fire]

That's apologist thinking.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by lonnieg5
The problem I see here is that everyone is so extreme in their views.

Muslims and Christians can be so radical it's frightening. But so can those who oppose them (Hi Nickdfresh).

...

Peace

Hi lonnieg5.:)

http://www.ieatpaint.com/topgun/gayiceman.jpg
"You're dangerous."

[Little Lamont]

Originally posted by lonnieg5

Then you get someone like Lamont who makes a joke out of the whole thing while turning a blind eye to the real seriousness of the subject.


Wait til I tell my mama. Boy, you don't talk about her church. hehehe

[Angel]

Originally posted by Katydid
They go on long pilgramages and beat their backs with lather straps filled with sharp blades.
Fuck you're a stupid cunt! That "beating their backs" is called self flagellation. And it's most common among Christians:

Christian:
"In the Christian religion, flagellation found many rationalizations. It was used as an official punishment for priests and monks, a self-inflicted penance, and a dramatization of the sufferings of Christ. There was an epidemic of flagellant sects in Europe during the tenth and fourteenth centuries, associated with penance and love of Christ, and the Catholic authorities took extreme measures to suppress what they considered a morbid enthusiasm for the act. In Latin American countries, flagellation still occurs at religious processions of penitentes."

Islam
"While Self Harm is forbidden in Islam a few Shi'a Muslims perform self-flagellation to mourn the death of Hussain during Muharram. Self-flagellation is forbidden by most Shi'a marjas. Most usually beat their chests with their hands. The practice is common across Shiites in the Middle East and Asia." http://www.answers.com/topic/flagellation



Did you know that the Iraqis in the USA were allowed to vote in the elections over there? [/B]

So what? American citizens who live in other countries are allowed to vote in American elections. Same for Canadians, Brits, as far as I know, same for any democratic nation.

Keep spewing your shit and hate you stupid fucking cunt!!!!!

[Angel]

Originally posted by Little Lamont
Well considering everybody in my mama's church is black... I doubt if there's any. hehehe

Got me on that one! ;) Okay, how many white baptists are KKK???

(How ya doin' Lamont, it's been a long time - that's if you're the Lamont I THINK you are.)

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by Little Lamont
Well considering everybody in my mama's church is black... I doubt if there's any. hehehe

I think that says enough in itself.

The Christian superstition is pretty dumb to start with but then the fact that churches are split by skin color shows the total stupidity of it all.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by lonnieg5
The problem I see here is that everyone is so extreme in their views.

Muslims and Christians can be so radical it's frightening. But so can those who oppose them (Hi Nickdfresh).

Then you get someone like Lamont who makes a joke out of the whole thing while turning a blind eye to the real seriousness of the subject.

The only real solution is acceptance. And if we can't do that, at least stop shouting and ignore each other.

Peace

As far as Nick and many people go the 'extremism' is reactionary and becoming more and more common with good reason.

If there is someone walking along the sidewalk muttering nonsence to themselves talking to an imaginary friend you shake your head and ignore it. If the same person starts attacking people you want some action taken.

The same goes for the religious. In the past rational people just thought ok they're superstitious it's a fairly harmless crutch let them get on with it. When it starts impacting on teaching people bullshit as science, deciding who runs the country or making people blow you up then it gets to the point where you have to start pointing out what a misguided lot of shit they are basing these decisions on.

Cheers!

:gulp:

[Jesus Christ]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
the fact that churches are split by skin color shows the total stupidity of it all.

Verily...... This is not My teaching. :(

[Angel]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
I think that says enough in itself.

The Christian superstition is pretty dumb to start with but then the fact that churches are split by skin color shows the total stupidity of it all.

I'm not sure that's the case in all country's though Sesh... We get a pretty good mix up here... wait a minute! 60% of us are atheists, never mind. :D

[Angel]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
As far as Nick and many people go the 'extremism' is reactionary and becoming more and more common with good reason.

If there is someone walking along the sidewalk muttering nonsence to themselves talking to an imaginary friend you shake your head and ignore it. If the same person starts attacking people you want some action taken.

The same goes for the religious. In the past rational people just thought ok they're superstitious it's a fairly harmless crutch let them get on with it. When it starts impacting on teaching people bullshit as science, deciding who runs the country or making people blow you up then it gets to the point where you have to start pointing out what a misguided lot of shit they are basing these decisions on.

Cheers!

:gulp:

Atheists of the world, UNITE! :gulp:

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Angel
Fuck you're a stupid cunt! That "beating their backs" is called self flagellation. And it's most common among Christians:

Christian:
"In the Christian religion, flagellation found many rationalizations. It was used as an official punishment for priests and monks, a self-inflicted penance, and a dramatization of the sufferings of Christ. There was an epidemic of flagellant sects in Europe during the tenth and fourteenth centuries, associated with penance and love of Christ, and the Catholic authorities took extreme measures to suppress what they considered a morbid enthusiasm for the act. In Latin American countries, flagellation still occurs at religious processions of penitentes."

Islam
"While Self Harm is forbidden in Islam a few Shi'a Muslims perform self-flagellation to mourn the death of Hussain during Muharram. Self-flagellation is forbidden by most Shi'a marjas. Most usually beat their chests with their hands. The practice is common across Shiites in the Middle East and Asia." http://www.answers.com/topic/flagellation




So what? American citizens who live in other countries are allowed to vote in American elections. Same for Canadians, Brits, as far as I know, same for any democratic nation.

Keep spewing your shit and hate you stupid fucking cunt!!!!!

What?! I failed to edit a Katydid post?:(

[FORD]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
What?! I failed to edit a Katydid post?:(

Nah, this is an old thread.

I probably forgot to edit it :(

[Baby's On Fire]

I've always been an Atheist. But the more I think on it, the more I am convinced religious people are insane.

I mean, they believe in talking snakes, for fuck sakes! They believe some white dude with a beard that NO ONE has ever seen (except the asshole priest trying to collect their money on a holy plate on Sundays)
waves his dick and things happen....mountains form, life appears on earth, and talking snakes harvest apples.

It's nothing short of total insanity! It goes to show how unbelievably stupid humans are....yeah we're the "intelligent species" :D

Find me a monkey who believes in talking snakes. I mean besides Elvis.

[FORD]

I've seen God. He looks exactly like Morgan Freeman (obviously NOT a white dude with a beard)

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[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by Angel
I'm not sure that's the case in all country's though Sesh...


No of course not but still...

[Angel]

I agree with you 100% Sesh...

[Little Lamont]

Originally posted by Angel
Got me on that one! ;) Okay, how many white baptists are KKK???

(How ya doin' Lamont, it's been a long time - that's if you're the Lamont I THINK you are.)

Hey baby, I'm doing alright. But I don't think I'm the right Lamont.

I'd tend to think the KKK would be made up of those tongue-talking pentecostals more than Baptists.

[BITEYOASS]

Originally posted by Baby's On Fire
I've always been an Atheist. But the more I think on it, the more I am convinced religious people are insane.

I mean, they believe in talking snakes, for fuck sakes! They believe some white dude with a beard that NO ONE has ever seen (except the asshole priest trying to collect their money on a holy plate on Sundays)
waves his dick and things happen....mountains form, life appears on earth, and talking snakes harvest apples.

It's nothing short of total insanity! It goes to show how unbelievably stupid humans are....yeah we're the "intelligent species" :D

Find me a monkey who believes in talking snakes. I mean besides Elvis.

Well the main problem is that religion has been perverted by mankind, who uses it in order to make the masses submit to their rule claiming a god told them to. There has got to be a god or some type of spiritual force, because everytime someone fucks with me and I remain humble and do nothing, then the next day or week that bastard either gets in a car wreck, contracts a skin disease or maimed. Some weird vibe going on with that. Yet I always second guess a so-called spiritual leader if they are in it for power and not for the collective good of ones concience. IMO God doesn't care about which team loses or which nation is powerful, it all has to do with life, death, weather or comforting the widowed and those who lost loved ones.

[lonnieg5]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Hi lonnieg5.:)

http://www.ieatpaint.com/topgun/gayiceman.jpg
"You're dangerous."

Oh dude, I gotta admit that is priceless.

[BITEYOASS]

P.S. there is no such thing as a peaceful religion and any group claiming to be the only way of god is a lie. I don't what way anyone follows to god, just as long as they don't start mixing religions. There is no in between.

[BITEYOASS]

Once a religion start getting hostile about advances in science, national superiority or even astrology, then their sytem of thinking is corrupted.

[Angel]

Originally posted by Little Lamont
Hey baby, I'm doing alright. But I don't think I'm the right Lamont.

I'd tend to think the KKK would be made up of those tongue-talking pentecostals more than Baptists.

Well, you would know better than me... we don't have too many KKK up here in Canada. ;)

I've always wanted to go to a black baptist church though, if I come down there, will you show me around? ;)

[scamper]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
If there is someone walking along the sidewalk muttering nonsence to themselves talking to an imaginary friend you shake your head and ignore it. If the same person starts attacking people you want some action taken.


Yeah remember last week when that christian walked into a mall a blew up everybody. The funny thing about this thread is that you people are the intolerant ones, let people believe what the want to. I don't care if they're muslum or what, don't hold one above the other, and don't think you're better because you think something else. Open you're eyes we're all different if you think you have all the answers you're wrong.

[Nickdfresh]

No, the "Christians" use stand-off bombs...

http://www.nndb.com/people/936/000031843/timothy-mcveigh-1-sized.jpg

[Redballjets88]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
So if Ted Bundy accepted Jesus 5 minutes before the needle slid in.......:rolleyes:

actually he probably wouldn't be "saved" unless he truly repented and cleaned his heart from all the evil that was in it, and with someone like bundy it is doubtful.

[Redballjets88]

Atheism is totally fucking pointless. Why would one be aetheist? If anything is right you are fucked, might as well stop complaining about religion and find something to have faith in.

That and atheists are the biggest douches on earth and are more self richeous than anyone else. you can tell from this thread because all they do is blast everything and claim how everyone else is insane and how they are the smartest because of their lack of religion. I can't wait to see all of you guys plead your case in heaven while I walk through the pearly gates. I'll laugh as God takes no pity on you. Because you have had every chance possible to do the right thing here.

[Seshmeister]

It's an interesting interpretation of the 'teachings' of the bible. Heaven is a country club where you stand laughing at the people being sent to hell.

Anyhoo to address what I think your argument is....

http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/pascal.html

The Rejection of Pascal's Wager
In the seventeenth century the French mathematician and theologian, Blaise Pascal (1623- 1663) put forward a wager in his Pensees (Thoughts):

If there is a God, He is infinitely incomprehensible, since, having, neither parts nor limits, He has no affinity to us. We are then incapable of knowing either what He is or if He is ... you must wager. It is not optional. You are embarked. Which will you choose then? Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager then without hesitation that he is.[1]

Pascal's wager sounds deceptively simple. Many a religious person finds such a call attractive: one only needs to believe without considering the evidence and one would immediately be in a better position than that of the non-believer. After all, they say, if I believe and then it turns out to be true I get to enjoy heavenly bliss; but if my belief turns out to be false, and there is no God, then when I die, I lose nothing. An atheist, the religious person may continue, if he turns out to be wrong will suffer an eternity of torment. If the atheist turns out to be right then it is only equal to the believer's "worst case." Obviously then, the believer will say, you must wager on the side of belief.

But Pascal's argument is seriously flawed. The religious environment that Pascal lived in was simple. Belief and disbelief only boiled down to two choices: Roman Catholicism and atheism. With a finite choice, his argument would be sound. But on Pascal's own premise that God is infinitely incomprehensible, then in theory, there would be an infinite number of possible theologies about God, all of which are equally probable.

First, let us look at the more obvious possibilities we know of today - possibilities that were either unknown to, or ignored by, Pascal. In the Calvinistic theological doctrine of predestination, it makes no difference what one chooses to believe since, in the final analysis, who actually gets rewarded is an arbitrary choice of God. Furthermore we know of many more gods of many different religions, all of which have different schemes of rewards and punishments. Given that there are more than 2,500 gods known to man [2], and given Pascal's own assumptions that one cannot comprehend God (or gods), then it follows that, even the best case scenario (i.e. that God exists and that one of the known Gods and theologies happen to be the correct one) the chances of making a successful choice is less than one in 2,500.

Second, Pascal's negative theology does not exclude the possibility that the true God and true theology is not one that is currently known to the world. For instance it is possible to think of a God who rewards, say, only those who purposely step on sidewalk cracks. This sounds absurd, but given the premise that we cannot understand God, this possible theology cannot be dismissed. In such a case, the choice of what God to believe would be irrelevant as one would be rewarded on a premise totally distinct from what one actually believes. Furthermore as many atheist philosophers have pointed out, it is also possible to conceive of a deity who rewards intellectual honesty, a God who rewards atheists with eternal bliss simply because they dared to follow where the evidence leads - that given the available evidence, no God exists! Finally we should also note that given Pascal's premise, it is possible to conceive of a God who is evil and who punishes the good and rewards the evil. [3]

Thus Pascal's call for us not to consider the evidence but to simply believe on prudential grounds fails. As the atheist philosopher, J.L. Mackie wrote:


Once the full range of such possibilities is taken into account, Pascal's argument from comparative expectations falls to the ground. The cultivation of non-rational belief is not even practically reasonable. [4]


This website then, is a call for the rejection of Pascal's wager. A call for all of us to use our reason to decide whether the central claims of Christianity are true or false. It is also a reminder that our choices have a moral dimension that cannot be ignored.

We have seen in this website that the Christian claim of a special status of the Bible is untenable. We have also seen that many important details about Jesus' life given in the gospels are either false or historically suspect. And we will examine Christian Theology as it is and show that it is a confused irrational system. The balance of evidence, far from being inconclusive, shows that the major teachings and claims of Christianity are false. These parts show that one of the main assumptions of Pascal's wager, that we cannot know the truth or falsity or religious claims and are thus forced to make a wager, is false.

As we have mentioned above, there is a moral dimension to Pascal's wager. We have seen in this website that Christianity, in all its forms - Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodox, Protestantism and the Fringe Churches - has inflicted tremendous harm on civilization. When one makes a wager to believe, then one becomes morally responsible for the propagation of suffering that Christianity have been bringing and will continue to bring upon the world.

The Roman Catholic Church continues its horrible track record of bringing misery to its followers and to non-Catholics. It's illogical stance on contraception leads to millions of unwanted pregnancies and, indirectly, to many thousands maternal and infant deaths. It also means that poor third world countries with Catholic majorities, such as the Philippines and Brazil, continue to be burdened by overpopulation, poverty, hunger and disease. It is widely recognized that the opposition of the Catholic Church to the use of condoms in the fight against HIV/AIDS is at least partially responsible for the high rate of new infections in Africa and elsewhere. Its irrational position on this has led to the pronouncement that if a husband infected with HIV/AIDS wants a normal conjugal relationship with his wife, he should do so without a condom. Life takes a back seat to theological nonsense. The moribund structure of the Church also allows for the horrendously high number of sex abuse committed by its clergy on innocent young Catholics. The recently departed pope, John Paul II bears a huge responsibility for this continuing infliction of suffering on humankind.

The Fundamentalist Protestant churches inflict their own brand of horror on the world. With scientific creationism and intelligent design creationism, they are trying to bring science, and the world, back into the dark ages where faith and ignorance reign supreme. The fundamental irrationalism of this branch of Christianity has meant that many of the flock have been fleeced by TV evangelists, some of whose have sexual escapades comparable to the infamous Pope Alexander VI. This irrationalism breeds belief in the efficacy of faith healing to the detriment, and death, of many. Needless to say, fundamentalism breeds intolerance.

The fundamentalists have joined forces with the Catholic Church in their absolutist opposition to abortion, leading the current fundamentalist leaning U.S. government to withhold funds from organizations that aid poor women in third world countries. It has been estimated that almost 5,000 women needlessly die each year due to this misnamed "culture of life" policy.

This moral responsibility for all these also partially falls on the so-called liberal Christians. While this group of Christians may do little harm directly, they provide the raw material (in "lukewarm" believers who are already positively disposed towards Christianity) from which fundamentalism builds itself. Furthermore by putting a "respectable" veneer on religious discourse, they prevent a much needed and long overdue logical, philosophical and scientific demolition of religious claims - since to even attempt to question religion per se is considered politically incorrect. As Sam Harris rightly noted in his book The End of Faith:

Religious moderates are, in a large part, responsible for the religious conflict in our world, because their beliefs provide the context in which scriptural literalism and religious violence can never be adequately opposed.[5]


It is time for liberal Christians to think through their belief system, whether applying words which lose all sense of their normal meaning just to keep some semblance of the religious life, is really worth the harm they indirectly help inflict on the world.

Furthermore amidst all this proven negative effects of Christianity, it is hard to see if there is much good that comes out of it. Some believers have tried to argue that Christians lead healthier lives than non-Christians, but the studies cited have been shown to be seriously flawed. Furthermore it is debatable whether Christianity actually makes a person moral. History seems to tell us otherwise. Many of the popes throughout history had been morally deficient human beings; so too were many of the church fathers, Protestant reformers and some modern evangelical preachers. For they preached intolerance and hate and sometimes actively encouraged the torture and murders of innocent people. Indeed recent sociological studies have shown that there is a negative correlation between religiosity and morality.

The world today, perhaps more than ever, is in need of our undivided, moral and rational, attention. The problems of the world, both natural and man-made are many: famine, floods, the greenhouse effect, the ozone hole and the irreversible extinction of countless species of plants and animals. The only chance the world has is for humankind to understand that this world is all we have, there is no other, no afterlife. Only we can solve the world's problems. The solutions for the problems of the world and for life in general are not to be found in Christianity. Christianity, in fact, is part of the problem.

On both intellectual and moral grounds the only course for a person to take is the rejection of Pascal's wager.

References
1. Popkin, Pascal: p257-258
2. Krueger, What is Atheism?: p 161
3. Gale, On the Nature and Existence of God: p345-354
Mackie, The Miracle of Theism: p200-203
Martin, Atheism: A Philosophical Justification: p228-238
4. Mackie, op. cit.: p 203
5. Harris, The End of Faith: p 45

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by scamper
Yeah remember last week when that christian walked into a mall a blew up everybody.

No but I do remember all the times he flew over the mall and dropped bombs on it. If you're in the mall what's the difference?

[FORD]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Second, Pascal's negative theology does not exclude the possibility that the true God and true theology is not one that is currently known to the world. For instance it is possible to think of a God who rewards, say, only those who purposely step on sidewalk cracks. This sounds absurd, but given the premise that we cannot understand God, this possible theology cannot be dismissed.

So is this the argument for the "Church of DEVO-lution"??

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Step on a crack.....break your mama's back....

[Baby's On Fire]

Originally posted by BITEYOASS
Well the main problem is that religion has been perverted by mankind, who uses it in order to make the masses submit to their rule claiming a god told them to. There has got to be a god or some type of spiritual force, because everytime someone fucks with me and I remain humble and do nothing, then the next day or week that bastard either gets in a car wreck, contracts a skin disease or maimed. Some weird vibe going on with that. Yet I always second guess a so-called spiritual leader if they are in it for power and not for the collective good of ones concience. IMO God doesn't care about which team loses or which nation is powerful, it all has to do with life, death, weather or comforting the widowed and those who lost loved ones.

If there really was such a loving and caring God, good people wouldn't be hurt, afflictaed by disease, or die prematurely.

If there is a God, he or she is a motherfucking asshole.

THAT'S RIGHT!!

[BITEYOASS]

Originally posted by Baby's On Fire
If there really was such a loving and caring God, good people wouldn't be hurt, afflictaed by disease, or die prematurely.

If there is a God, he or she is a motherfucking asshole.

THAT'S RIGHT!!

Never said their was a loving god. If he made us all to be just like him/her, than surely this deity must have mood swings, deppresion and anger problems when some dumbass president thinks they are communicating with them and doing the opposite of their will.

[BITEYOASS]

Let's take that Noah's ark thing for instance.

[Little Lamont]

God is real.

[Redballjets88]

Baby it's called free will for a reason. In Genesis God told Adam that the Earth belongs to man and it is mans job to do what is right, the Eve took a bite of the apple and so did Adam therefore God kicked them out of Eden and thats when the nice happy version of earth ended and the crappiness began.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Baby's On Fire
If there really was such a loving and caring God, good people wouldn't be hurt, afflictaed by disease, or die prematurely.

If there is a God, he or she is a motherfucking asshole.

THAT'S RIGHT!!

Actually people are motherfucking assholes...

God just doesn't care...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by lonnieg5
Oh dude, I gotta admit that is priceless.

Well at least you've a sense of humor.

And I'm not really dangerous to anyone, being what amounts to a pacifist Deist with agnostic inclinations...

[Little Lamont]

Love seeing so many people get stirred up over God.

[Baby's On Fire]

What God? It is so amusing to me, people believing in God.

It shows how smart humans really are.

[Redballjets88]

its amusing how you mock religion and at the same time feel you are open minded and care about people.

[jhale667]

Originally posted by Redballjets88
its amusing how you mock religion and at the same time feel you are open minded and care about people.

No, it's too easy to be an open-minded, caring person and mock religion...
Organized religion is for the most part, a joke...

[Baby's On Fire]

Originally posted by Redballjets88
its amusing how you mock religion and at the same time feel you are open minded and care about people.


I generally don't care about people. Only those who deserve it.

I have disdain for religion because it is populated by a bunch of hypocritical assholes, all around.

Not to mention that there is literally not a single shred of evidence that any god exists.

Someone please cite me a single piece of documented evidence of a god. And the face of Mary in a fucking pancake doesn't count.

[Redballjets88]

i will when you give me evidence that God doesn't exsist.

everyone on earth is hypocritical.

[jhale667]

Originally posted by Baby's On Fire

Someone please cite me a single piece of documented evidence of a god. And the face of Mary in a fucking pancake doesn't count.

http://e.photos.cx/dogass-911.jpg

:D

[BITEYOASS]

Originally posted by Baby's On Fire
I generally don't care about people. Only those who deserve it.

I have disdain for religion because it is populated by a bunch of hypocritical assholes, all around.

Not to mention that there is literally not a single shred of evidence that any god exists.

Someone please cite me a single piece of documented evidence of a god. And the face of Mary in a fucking pancake doesn't count.


Hey I ain't convincing anyone to join here. Majority of religious history I read shows absolute BS created through mankind. If you feel that good or bad should be a judgement among mankind with the intervention of a celestial spirit, that's cool. Some people care and some don't about what happens on the other of the pane between life and death. We're all gonna found out eventually after we die.

[Nickdfresh]

You know the day destroys the night
Night divides the day
Tried to run
Tried to hide
Break on through to the other side
Break on through to the other side
Break on through to the other side, yeah

We chased our pleasures here
Dug our treasures there
But can you still recall
The time we cried
Break on through to the other side
Break on through to the other side

Yeah!
C'mon, yeah

Everybody loves my baby
Everybody loves my baby
She get(s high)
She get(s high)
She get(s high)
She get(s high)

I found an island in your arms
Country in your eyes
Arms that chain
Eyes that lie
Break on through to the other side
Break on through to the other side
Break on through, oww!
Oh, yeah!

Made the scene
Week to week
Day to day
Hour to hour
The gate is straight
Deep and wide
Break on through to the other side
Break on through to the other side
Break on through
Break on through
Break on through
Break on through
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

--Jim Morrison

[BITEYOASS]

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[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by Redballjets88
i will when you give me evidence that God doesn't exsist.

everyone on earth is hypocritical.

Ass about tits logic.

You can't prove an unprovable negative.

Prove that there are not invisible fairies at the bottom of your yard.

Prove that there isn't an invisible teapot flying around Mars.

You are the one claiming the supernatural shit so you have to prove that not the other way around.

[Angel]

Have fun, Sesh! ;)

[Redballjets88]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Ass about tits logic.

You can't prove an unprovable negative.

Prove that there are not invisible fairies at the bottom of your yard.

Prove that there isn't an invisible teapot flying around Mars.

You are the one claiming the supernatural shit so you have to prove that not the other way around.

what you said goes both ways bud. You say God doesn't exsist so prove that. Many things that science says can't be totally proven. i.e. evolution.

[Angel]

Sesh vs Redballs....

Get the popcorn ready, I'm just going to sit back and enjoy...

[Redballjets88]

Thats doubtful fat bitch since he isn't online and I'm leaving.

[Angel]

Oh, he'll be back.... little boy.

You haven't experienced owning until you've been owned by the great Seshmeister...

[Baby's On Fire]

Originally posted by Redballjets88
what you said goes both ways bud. You say God doesn't exsist so prove that. Many things that science says can't be totally proven. i.e. evolution.


Evolution has essentially been proven. There is a mountain of evidence of it.

But science is dictated by EVIDENCE....and lots of it. Not conjecture or flat-out fantasy.

Little boy, you still have not answered the question: Give me a SINGLE SHRED of evidence of a God.....I don't even care what religion. Just some sort of scrap of evidence.

And don't quote me the Bilble or Jesus Fucking Christ.

We're all waiting for you.........Ready, set....go.

[Angel]

Originally posted by Baby's On Fire
Little boy

Ha ha ha!!!! It's catching on.... :D

[jhale667]

Originally posted by Angel
Sesh vs Redballs....




Sesh is going to own this kid into oblivion...:rolleyes:

[Angel]

Originally posted by jhale667
Sesh is going to own this kid into oblivion...:rolleyes:

Heartbreaking, isn't it? I've got my popcorn ready... you?

[dawiseone]

If the Quran made statements 1600 years ago about scientific things that have just recently been discoverd or confirmed by science. How do you explain it .........other than devine inspiration? The developement of the human embyro in detailed steps.....the formation of clouds and lightining and thunder... the shape of mountains under the earth and why they are shaped that way...the big bang and the big crunch theory.......the 7 layers of the earths atmosphere..... all theese things are in the quran..How do you explain this. If there is no God as you claim.....Where did heaven and the universe come from? This cannot be all from nothing? And I'm sure when you are on your death bed you'll be praying to something or someone. You can bet on that. Organized religon today is all a big joke to me but the Quran came from God and there is no doubt about it.. Read the book! It cannot be denied. If you have any bit of education you can't honestly say anything but. I bear witness that there is only one God. And Mohammed is his slave servant and final messanger.:o

[Baby's On Fire]

I'm still waiting for a sliver of a sliver of evidence, douche bag.

I have a feeling I have a really long fucking wait.

[Nickdfresh]

If the Quran made statements 1600 years ago about scientific things that have just recently been discoverd or confirmed by science. How do you explain it .........other than devine inspiration? The developement of the human embyro in detailed steps...

That's because Mohammad was dating them...

[Baby's On Fire]

What has the development of the human embryo in detailed steps have to do with the proof of God? It's called extracting the embryo (i.e. ABORTING) and then observing it.

This is SCIENCE....not bullshit religion.

Now, with that being said, we're still waiting for any evidence at all. Anyone? Anyone?

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by dawiseone
If the Quran made statements 1600 years ago about scientific things that have just recently been discoverd or confirmed by science. How do you explain it .........other than devine inspiration? The developement of the human embyro in detailed steps.....the formation of clouds and lightining and thunder... the shape of mountains under the earth and why they are shaped that way...the big bang and the big crunch theory.......the 7 layers of the earths atmosphere..... all theese things are in the quran..How do you explain this. If there is no God as you claim.....Where did heaven and the universe come from? This cannot be all from nothing? And I'm sure when you are on your death bed you'll be praying to something or someone. You can bet on that. Organized religon today is all a big joke to me but the Quran came from God and there is no doubt about it.. Read the book! It cannot be denied. If you have any bit of education you can't honestly say anything but. I bear witness that there is only one God. And Mohammed is his slave servant and final messanger.:o

There is a good argument that Islam has become more militant recently not so much because of the corrupt Saudi regime(name a cool Islamic country) but more because it is scared of that modernity will fuck it up because it it such a stupid religion once people get educated.

Mainstream Christianity has coped with science and fact by absorbing it and moving religion to the ever increasing smaller and smaller margins and is slowly dying especially outwith the US.

Islam is not so able to do this because the Quran is a bit less vague which when you are talking shit is a more difficult problem.

Something that is threatened is always more likely to be aggresive, Islam is a cornered rat.

http://www.truthandgrace.com/Images/muslimhate44.jpg

Pirimative lunatic nonsense.

Question :


Are we alone when in the bathroom? Can there be Jinn in with us? If so, what steps do we need to take to protect our modesty?.

Answer :

Praise be to Allaah.

It is known that the jinn can see people, but people cannot see the jinn. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, he [Shaytaan] and Qabeeluhu (his soldiers from the jinn or his tribe) see you from where you cannot see them”

[al-A’raaf 7:27]

Because the shayaateen (devils) are evil, they like to frequent dirty places. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Bad statements are for bad people (or bad women for bad men) and bad people for bad statements (or bad men for bad women). Good statements are for good people (or good women for good men) and good people for good statements (or good men for good women)…”

[al-Noor 24:26]


Genius!!!


Hence the shayaateen frequent the places where humans relieve themselves, and they want to do them harm.

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) has told us what we should do so that Allaah will protect us from the evil of the shayaateen when we enter the toilet. That is that before entering the place, the Muslim should say, “Bismillaah, Allaahumma inni a’oodhu bika min al-khubthi wa’l-khabaa’ith (In the name of Allaah, O Allaah, I seek refuge with You from evil and from the male and female devils).” :spin:

Al-Tirmidhi (no. 606) narrated from ‘Ali ibn Abi Taalib (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “A screen will be placed between the eyes of the jinn and the ‘awrah of the sons of Adam when one of them enters the toilet, if he says ‘Bismillaah (in the name of Allaah).” (Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi, 496).

Abu Dawood (6) and Ibn Maajah (296) narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “These toilets are visited (by jinn), so when any one of you goes to the toilet, let him say, ‘Allaahumma inni a’oodhu bika min al-khubthi wa’l-khabaa’ith (O Allaah, I seek refuge with You from evil and from the male and female devils).’” (Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Ibn Maajah, 241).

The word hushoosh, translated here as toilets, refers to places where people relieve themselves, and it includes the “water closets” that are in people’s houses.

“Visited (by jinn)” means that they are frequented by the devils, with the intent to cause harm to people.

Khubth means evil and khabaa’ith means evil souls, namely the devils, both male and female. So one is seeking refuge with Allaah from evil and from those who do evil.

From ‘Awn al-Ma’bood.

If the Muslim says this du’aa’ before entering the toilet, Allaah will grant him refuge from the devils.

Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

The benefit of saying Bismillaah is that it conceals a person. The benefit of seeking refuge with Allaah is that one is turning to Allaah from evil and from the male and female devils, for this place is filthy (khabeeth) and a filthy place is the abode of those who are evil (khubatha’). So it is the abode ofthe devils. Thus it is appropriate if one wants to enter the toilet to say “A’oodhu Billaah min al-khubthi wa’l-khabaa’ith (I seek refuge with Allaah from evil and from the male and female devils)” so that he will not be harmed by evil or by the evil souls.

Al-Sharh al-Mumti’, 1/83.

And Allaah knows best.



Islam Q&A (www.islam-qa.com)

[jhale667]

Waitaminute...they have to pray before going to the bathroom?!? Because of evil toilet gremlins? :confused:

Geez, what if you've got a big one brewing...? :lol:

[jhale667]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Islam is a cornered rat.

http://www.truthandgrace.com/Images/muslimhate44.jpg

Pirimative lunatic nonsense.



Yeah, there's a member of a 'peaceful' religion for ya...

Interesting how he's calling for beheadings, but doesn't have the BALLS to show his face...:mad:

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by Redballjets88
what you said goes both ways bud. You say God doesn't exsist so prove that. Many things that science says can't be totally proven. i.e. evolution.

You have the right to your own opinions but not to your own facts.

I notice you use the word 'totally' there with science. Evolution is provable to the point of 99.999% likely and accepetd by by the vast majority of christians including the catholic church.

You miss the simple point. How the fuck can you prove a negative that God doesn't exist? You ask me to prove that something you can't see and does nothing does not exist. That's impossible just like you can't prove that I don't have an invisible giant rabbit friend called Clarence that is indetectable.

What I can prove is that the bible is full of hundreds of inconsistences and impossible untruths.

I can point out the huge immoralities commited by the god in that flawed book.

I can prove that the Jesus story is merely an adaption of previous myths.

I can prove that all of the key aspects of the nativity story are completely false.

I can show that the crucifixion story even ignoring the supernatural elements is highly unlikely to be true.

I can prove that the books chosen out of many others to be in the bible were decided at a conference hundreds of years after the Jesus character was meant to have lived.

Your level of proof is based on the superstitions passed on to you like a virus by your parents.


Cheers!

:gulp:

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by jhale667
Waitaminute...they have to pray before going to the bathroom?!? Because of evil toilet gremlins? :confused:

Geez, what if you've got a big one brewing...? :lol:

This muslim stuff is sheer comedy gold and too funny not to share.

From their Q & A site some selected questions.
Question :


I have a colleague who had an operation to remove the opening of the anus and create an opening in his side because of a tumour.
My question is: with the new opening he cannot control what comes out or the smell. Is it permissible for him to pray in the mosque or should he pray at home?.

Answer :

Praise be to Allaah.

Firstly:

We ask Allaah to heal him and make him well, and we ask Him to bless him with patience and reward him for the trials he is going through.

With this sickness, the patient cannot control emission of stools, rather the stools come out continually through the opening that has been created in his side. So the ruling in this case is the same as the ruling on continual incontinence.

Based on this, it is permissible for a person who has this problem to combine two prayers if it is difficult for him to offer each prayer at its proper time. Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

The correct view is that joining prayers is not something that is only for lengthy journeys, rather prayers may be joined because of rain or because of sickness, as is narrated in the Sunnah concerning a woman who was suffering from istihaadah (irregular non-menstrual vaginal bleeding), and the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told her to combine two prayers, as was mentioned in two hadeeths.

Al-Fataawa al-Kubra, 1/49

The scholars of the Standing Committee said concerning the ruling on a woman who cannot control her urine because of some sickness that she is suffering from:

If the matter is as described, then she should pray according to her situation, and there is no reason why she should not combine Zuhr and ‘Asr at the time of one of them, and Maghrib and ‘Isha’, because of the general meaning of the evidence that indicates that Islam seeks to make things easy. This is subject to the condition that her wudoo’ for Zuhr and ‘Asr be done after the time for them begins, and likewise that her wudoo’ for Maghrib and ‘Isha’ be done after the time for them begins.

Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah li’l-Buhooth al-‘Ilmiyyah wa’l-Ifta, 8/85

Secondly:

The obligation to pray in congregation in the mosque is not waived in such cases, unless by going there the patient is likely to contaminate the mosque or there will be an offensive smell from the new opening, because that will bother the other worshippers.

With regard to the unpleasant smell, if there is such a smell emanating from a person, this excuses him from having to attend prayers in congregation, indeed it is not permissible for him to come to the mosque and annoy the angels and worshippers with this smell.

Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen said:

If there is an offensive smell coming from his mouth, nose or elsewhere that offends the worshippers, then he should not attend, so as to ward off that annoyance.

Al-Sharh al-Mumti’, 4/323

The one who has eaten onions and garlic is forbidden to attend congregational prayer in the mosque, because these two vegetables have unpleasant smells. We may add to that the foul smell of tobacco and cigarettes, which are haraam.

Muslim (564) narrated from Jaabir ibn ‘Abd-Allaah that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever has eaten onions, garlic or leeks, let him not come near our mosque, for the angels are offended by that which offends the sons of Adam.”

If it was this patient’s habit to pray in congregation in the mosque, then the reward for that will be recorded for him even if he prays in his house.

Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen said:

The person who is excused will have the reward of praying in congregation recorded for him in full, if it was his habit to pray in congregation, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “If a person falls sick or travels, the reward for what he used to do when he was healthy and not travelling will be recorded for him.”

Al-Sharh al-Mumti’, 4/323

With regard to contaminating the mosque with impure things, this is haraam. We have been commanded to clean and perfume the mosques.

Al-Bukhaari (221) and Muslim (284) narrated that Anas ibn Maalik said: A Bedouin came and urinated in a corner of the mosque and the people rebuked him. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told them not to do that. When he had finished urinating, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) called for a bucket of water and poured it over it.

According to a version narrated by Muslim (285): Then the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) called him and said to him: These mosques are not places for urinating or any other filthy thing, rather they are for the remembrance of Allaah, may He be glorified, prayer and reading Qur’aan.”

Al-Nawawi said in Sharh Saheeh Muslim:

It is haraam to bring najaasah (impurities) into the mosque. If a person on whose body is something impure fears that it may contaminate the mosque, it is not permissible for him to enter. If there is no such danger then it is permissible (for him to enter).



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[jhale667]

Originally posted by Seshmeister owning RedBalls
You have the right to your own opinions but not to your own facts.

I notice you use the word 'totally' there with science. Evolution is provable to the point of 99.999% likely and accepetd by by the vast majority of christians including the catholic church.

You miss the simple point. How the fuck can you prove a negative that God doesn't exist? You ask me to prove that something you can't see and does nothing does not exist. That's impossible just like you can't prove that I don't have an invisible giant rabbit friend called Clarence that is indetectable.

What I can prove is that the bible is full of hundreds of inconsistences and impossible untruths.

I can point out the huge immoralities commited by the god in that flawed book.

I can prove that the Jesus story is merely an adaption of previous myths.

I can prove that all of the key aspects of the nativity story are completely false.

I can show that the crucifixion story even ignoring the supernatural elements is highly unlikely to be true.

I can prove that the books chosen out of many others to be in the bible were decided at a conference hundreds of years after the Jesus character was meant to have lived.

Your level of proof is based on the superstitions passed on to you like a virus by your parents.


Cheers!

:gulp:

As expected...
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/owned60.gif
Redballs! :D Don't say we didn't warn you...

Oh, and thanks for clearing up the Muslim position on colostomies, Shesh..:lol:

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
That's because Mohammad was dating them...

LOL!

You know my one small criticism of people like Dawkins is that they attack Christianity but most of the time don't take on Islam.

I don't blame them because it's easy for us to do that anonymously on the interweb. For them they could be killed like the recent examples in Holland.

It's uncomfortable for liberal people as well because they inherently feel that they shouldn't criticise another culture. Even when it's a bullshit culture.

Islam is an even more stupid religion than Christianty. It's total crap.

An illiterate pedophile stealing from all the previous religions before jumping on a flying horse up to heaven. The reason Jerusalem is a holy site for Islam is that's because that's where he got on the fucking horse.

It's insane but like Christianity if you are going to sell bullshit like that you better have some serious threats to back it up. Because the Christian myth was so silly they needed hell and eternal damnation and so do the Islamists backed up more recently with direct action. Whyy they think that the all powerful Allah who can do anything needs humans to punish people yet is happy to throw cancer at an innocent child is kind of confusing.

The common argument against people like me railing against fundies is that 'the vast majority of muslims or christians are cool'. BUT without the laid back majority these cults wouldn't have the same influence at all. The moderately superstitious people prop up the nutcases. They make it far far more likely that that the fuckwits get into it. How many David Koresh suicide bombings have there been?

The one thing that I will give the superstitious fundies is that at least they have the courage of their convictions. If I believed in either myth I wouldn't be willing to risk eternal happiness over coverting the guy next doors car.

Cheers!

:gulp:

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by jhale667

Oh, and thanks for clearing up the Muslim position on colostomies, Shesh..:lol:

May Allah reward me for that...:)

[jhale667]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
May Allah reward me for that...:)

Yes, may all your bathroom vists be Jinn free...:)

[Nitro Express]

The only thing I know for sure is all of us are going to fucking die!

[Nitro Express]

Whether it's rotting away in a BCE prison or having a heart attack during sex, we's all going to meet the reaper!

[Nitro Express]

An illiterate pedophile stealing from all the previous religions before jumping on a flying horse up to heaven.

Sounds like a pretty good description of Joseph Smith except he died in a gun fight in jail.

[Nitro Express]

Cult leaders all want three things. Power, money, and ass. Usually young ass. They all seem to be fucking pedofiles but of course screwing up a young person's life is a form of power.

[dawiseone]

illiterate pedophile ....?What the fuck ? Dude you are totaly clueless to what you think you know about Islam. The pedophiles and illiterates and fags and rapest and poligamist and nuts are the descriptions of the prophets of the bible. Mohammed had the entire muslim treasury at his disposal and died pennieless and owned a camel skin blanket and a mattress when he checked out. Yet he left us the Quran the purest and most authentic proof of devine exsistance possible. All because the rules and laws seem fucked up to who ever reads it does not make wrong. All religious laws are fucked up and weird. If they wer'nt it would be easy for everyone to get to heaven. I don't like the rules ...I don't follow the rules ....but they are for the very exsistance of mankind.......follow the shit and things work. Plain and simple.you think the Quarn is bad read the fuckin bible dude. Much more bullshit there than you can even imagine . I studied comparative religion for over 12 years and let me tell you. The bible spews more hate and rederic than any Islamic document conceived. On that happy note. I belive that all organized religons are bullshit. And there are extreemist in everyone of them. The only time you even hear the word Islam in the news its followed by terrorist....or suicide bomber .......or extreemist. Why do you think that is? That is what sells. If that was 15 christian extreemist on 911 . Think about what the outcome of that little adventure would be like today. It would have been swept under the rug so fast you would'nt even know about it. So b-4 U go N slander Islam learn the facts. How could an illeterate camel farmer produce such a book filled with miracles discoverd only in the past 150 years? How did he do it you can't copy miracles and scientific facts. He was to fuckin dumb to even know what that meant.

[dawiseone]

My nuts on your chin. I just had a devine revelation. My balls on your chin. I'm gonna start a new religion. The devine nutsack! Let it be known from this day forth my ball shall this day rest upon your chin now and forever more.....AMEN!

[jhale667]

Originally posted by dawiseone
Yet he left us the Quran the purest and most authentic proof of devine exsistance possible.

Your opinion. I'm sure others on this board would argue the Bible is.
Also their opinion. :D

[FORD]

Originally posted by dawiseone
Yet he left us the Quran the purest and most authentic proof of devine exsistance possible. All because the rules and laws seem fucked up to who ever reads it does not make wrong. All religious laws are fucked up and weird. If they wer'nt it would be easy for everyone to get to heaven. I don't like the rules ...I don't follow the rules ....but they are for the very exsistance of mankind.......follow the shit and things work. Plain and simple.

OK, so you're saying that the Quran is the "purest and most authentic proof of divine existance", and you also say that you must live by the rules of the Quran in order to make "things work".

Yet YOU don't like the rules and don't follow them.

How then, can you describe yourself as Muslim when you openly admit defying what Mohammed taught you to do?

If someone describes themselves as a Jew, I would expect them to keep the 10 Commandments, the Kosher laws, etc.

If someone describes themselves as a Christian, they should live according to the teachings of Jesus. Of course there's a whole subculture of so called "Christians" in this country who probably have never read a Bible, other than the cherry-picked verses their pastor reads, in his own made up, usually right wing political context, in the Sunday sermon.

Bottom line - if you claim a religion, live it. And if your church, mosque, or temple doesn't teach what you know to be the word of your God and teachings of your prophets, then get the Hell away from the lying hypocrites and find a congregation that does.

If everyone of faith did exactly that, the fundamentalist wackos in all three branches of the Abrahamic religions would cease to exist.

[Redballjets88]

Originally posted by FORD
OK, so you're saying that the Quran is the "purest and most authentic proof of divine existance", and you also say that you must live by the rules of the Quran in order to make "things work".

Yet YOU don't like the rules and don't follow them.

How then, can you describe yourself as Muslim when you openly admit defying what Mohammed taught you to do?

If someone describes themselves as a Jew, I would expect them to keep the 10 Commandments, the Kosher laws, etc.

If someone describes themselves as a Christian, they should live according to the teachings of Jesus. Of course there's a whole subculture of so called "Christians" in this country who probably have never read a Bible, other than the cherry-picked verses their pastor reads, in his own made up, usually right wing political context, in the Sunday sermon.

Bottom line - if you claim a religion, live it. And if your church, mosque, or temple doesn't teach what you know to be the word of your God and teachings of your prophets, then get the Hell away from the lying hypocrites and find a congregation that does.

If everyone of faith did exactly that, the fundamentalist wackos in all three branches of the Abrahamic religions would cease to exist.

i agee there are far many more people that say that they are christian than there actually are.

[Angel]

Originally posted by Redballjets88
i agee there are far many more people that say that they are christian than there actually are.


Pot, meet kettle

hmmm.... no response to the great Seshmeister???? Of course not, you can't call him a fat bitch, can you?

[BITEYOASS]

What has once started as for the respect of the natural creations around us (stars, sun, soil, plants, animals) has turned into a battle for having total power of the minds of the human race, no matter who gets killed. 500 years ago we all would have been easily manipulated, but now we are all aware and have second thoughts about the motives of so called religious leaders.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
LOL!

You know my one small criticism of people like Dawkins is that they attack Christianity but most of the time don't take on Islam.

I don't blame them because it's easy for us to do that anonymously on the interweb. For them they could be killed like the recent examples in Holland.

It's uncomfortable for liberal people as well because they inherently feel that they shouldn't criticise another culture. Even when it's a bullshit culture.

Islam is an even more stupid religion than Christianty. It's total crap.

An illiterate pedophile stealing from all the previous religions before jumping on a flying horse up to heaven. The reason Jerusalem is a holy site for Islam is that's because that's where he got on the fucking horse.

It's insane but like Christianity if you are going to sell bullshit like that you better have some serious threats to back it up. Because the Christian myth was so silly they needed hell and eternal damnation and so do the Islamists backed up more recently with direct action. Whyy they think that the all powerful Allah who can do anything needs humans to punish people yet is happy to throw cancer at an innocent child is kind of confusing.

The common argument against people like me railing against fundies is that 'the vast majority of muslims or christians are cool'. BUT without the laid back majority these cults wouldn't have the same influence at all. The moderately superstitious people prop up the nutcases. They make it far far more likely that that the fuckwits get into it. How many David Koresh suicide bombings have there been?

The one thing that I will give the superstitious fundies is that at least they have the courage of their convictions. If I believed in either myth I wouldn't be willing to risk eternal happiness over coverting the guy next doors car.

Cheers!

:gulp:


Originally posted by dawiseone
illiterate pedophile ....?What the fuck ? Dude you are totaly clueless to what you think you know about Islam. The pedophiles and illiterates and fags and rapest and poligamist and nuts are the descriptions of the prophets of the bible. Mohammed had the entire muslim treasury at his disposal and died pennieless and owned a camel skin blanket and a mattress when he checked out. Yet he left us the Quran the purest and most authentic proof of devine exsistance possible. All because the rules and laws seem fucked up to who ever reads it does not make wrong....


David Koresh was too busy screwing young girls (like Mohammad :)) to have conceptualized or implemented suicide bombings. Yet, it's almost sickening as to how many people on the interweb I've seen give him some passive sympathies --as if he's some martyr against the big bad evil, secular Federal gov't, run by Clinton and Reno, or something. As for the which religion is more regressive, well, I don't know. I've a friend that is part Muslim and part Baptist, but nonobservant of any religion. Recently he told me that from what (little) he had seen that Islam seemed far more spiritual because there was far less preaching and far more praying. But he's moderate and not from some radicalized subculture. There also seems to be much stock put in helping one's fellow man and donating to the poor in Islam. In Christianity, I think you have to buy them off by adopting that as your faith first before they'll help you more often that not?

Sesh, I agree with about 90% of your post. But here is where I have a slightly different outlook: The truth is that religion doesnt make terrorism. Societal corruption, inequality, classism, and the inability to write one's own impact on his destiny is what causes terrorism and all this stupid fucking literalism shit. So one can say that the brutal Egyptian gov't, effectively an American supported military dictatorship with a nice secular business suit window dressing, is far, far more effective at radicalizing it's lower middle class male population and sending them into the ranks of jihadists suicide bomber than is any Imam on a pulpit.

The reason why one has to fear for speaking against the silliness of Islamic stupidity in Western Europe is that the immigrants there are prodded off into xenophobic ghettos, often forming little Middle Eastern autocracies effectively cut off from the rest of any given European society, and all it's age of reason enlightenment pretensions. The US's overall philosophical impetus of political and social engagement with immigrants has enabled us to (mostly) avoid the radicalization of young populations and prevented, by and large, al Qaida from establishing any number of cells here. This is because Muslims here earn slightly better than average salaries and have the equivalent in education levels as other ethnic groupings. So, upwardly mobile, middle class people don't make very good terrorist supporters. While yes, the 'vanguard of the revolution(s)' are themselves often highly educated bourgeoisie, they must have a sea of discontent in which to swim in order to affect sustained symmetrical warfare and terror. Otherwise, they're just madmen that disappear in the US Federal Penitentiary system (remember the "Blind Sheik?" Right, neither do I :)) So to blame all backwardness of theologies simply ignores that money has far more to do with it, and the Stalinists and Nazis were themselves 'enlightened' atheists to an extent. Of course, they still out-killed everybody else...

I am no theologian, but, as for the superiority of Christianity over Islam: well, Christianity has had reform movements such as the Protestant reformation and Vatican I & II that have forced a sort of delicate balance between religion and science and the modern world. In a sense, the WHOLE religion moderated itself and the conceptualization of God became softer, less rigid and paternal, and more new age and obtuse. Something that has yet to take place Islam.

I've always thought that the ancient Greeks were on to something, as compared to Christians, Muslims, and Jews and just about anyone else. Not that I believe all that shit about Mount Olympus or anything. Hell, even the Greek Philosophers had rejected mythology, and themselves were agnostics or monotheists. But one thing presented that is lacking in the three religions mentioned that the myths have is one of hubris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubris). The idea that one may actually be a flawed, self-destructive megalomaniac doesn't seem to occur to Christians for instance. Because how can one be wrong when essentially you are affecting "God's will?"

[Angel]

Christians are terrorists too. Don't forget, one of the first cases of germ warfare was the catholics providing pox ridden blankets to the North American Natives.

Now in Edmonton, the catholic schools are offering Cree immersion. Figure they have to give back after almost wiping out the culture!

[jhale667]

Originally posted by Angel
Christians are terrorists too. Don't forget, one of the first cases of germ warfare was the catholics providing pox ridden blankets to the North American Natives.

Now in Edmonton, the catholic schools are offering Cree immersion. Figure they have to give back after almost wiping out the culture!

Umm...weren't the first settlers Protestant? :confused:

[Baby's On Fire]

No matter what the religion, it's all fucked up.

One of the many sickening things about religion is they all think theirs is the best.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
David Koresh was too busy screwing young girls (like Mohammad :)) to have conceptualized or implemented suicide bombings. Yet, it's almost sickening as to how many people on the interweb I've seen give him some passive sympathies --as if he's some martyr against the big bad evil, secular Federal gov't, run by Clinton and Reno, or something. As for the which religion is more regressive, well, I don't know. I've a friend that is part Muslim and part Baptist, but nonobservant of any religion. Recently he told me that from what (little) he had seen that Islam seemed far more spiritual because there was far less preaching and far more praying. But he's moderate and not from some radicalized subculture. There also seems to be much stock put in helping one's fellow man and donating to the poor in Islam. In Christianity, I think you have to buy them off by adopting that as your faith first before they'll help you more often that not?

Sesh, I agree with about 90% of your post. But here is where I have a slightly different outlook: The truth is that religion doesnt make terrorism. Societal corruption, inequality, classism, and the inability to write one's own impact on his destiny is what causes terrorism and all this stupid fucking literalism shit. So one can say that the brutal Egyptian gov't, effectively an American supported military dictatorship with a nice secular business suit window dressing, is far, far more effective at radicalizing it's lower middle class male population and sending them into the ranks of jihadists suicide bomber than is any Imam on a pulpit.

The reason why one has to fear for speaking against the silliness of Islamic stupidity in Western Europe is that the immigrants there are prodded off into xenophobic ghettos, often forming little Middle Eastern autocracies effectively cut off from the rest of any given European society, and all it's age of reason enlightenment pretensions. The US's overall philosophical impetus of political and social engagement with immigrants has enabled us to (mostly) avoid the radicalization of young populations and prevented, by and large, al Qaida from establishing any number of cells here. This is because Muslims here earn slightly better than average salaries and have the equivalent in education levels as other ethnic groupings. So, upwardly mobile, middle class people don't make very good terrorist supporters. While yes, the 'vanguard of the revolution(s)' are themselves often highly educated bourgeoisie, they must have a sea of discontent in which to swim in order to affect sustained symmetrical warfare and terror. Otherwise, they're just madmen that disappear in the US Federal Penitentiary system (remember the "Blind Sheik?" Right, neither do I :)) So to blame all backwardness of theologies simply ignores that money has far more to do with it, and the Stalinists and Nazis were themselves 'enlightened' atheists to an extent. Of course, they still out-killed everybody else...

I am no theologian, but, as for the superiority of Christianity over Islam: well, Christianity has had reform movements such as the Protestant reformation and Vatican I & II that have forced a sort of delicate balance between religion and science and the modern world. In a sense, the WHOLE religion moderated itself and the conceptualization of God became softer, less rigid and paternal, and more new age and obtuse. Something that has yet to take place Islam.

I've always thought that the ancient Greeks were on to something, as compared to Christians, Muslims, and Jews and just about anyone else. Not that I believe all that shit about Mount Olympus or anything. Hell, even the Greek Philosophers had rejected mythology, and themselves were agnostics or monotheists. But one thing presented that is lacking in the three religions mentioned that the myths have is one of hubris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubris). The idea that one may actually be a flawed, self-destructive megalomaniac doesn't seem to occur to Christians for instance. Because how can one be wrong when essentially you are affecting "God's will?"

All good but the last failed attempted terrorist attack here was by doctors. The succesful one before was by people in pretty decent jobs. I gree that the US has been more successful in the integration of immigrants but the reasons for that are probably more complex.

Also I think you can draw a parallel between the Greek thing and the US founding fathers.

The Greeks notably Athens came up with the democracy thing which was unique at the time and you could argue pretty unique until the creation of the US but there is a hell of a lot of rose tinted glasses shit going on with how both are perceived now. Athens was a democracy for only a hundred years or so and during that time there were only a couple of years where they didn't vote to go/continue wars against their neighbors building up and then losing an empire. If the limited number of voters(around 5 or 10k) chose to make a human sacrifice that would happen.

Also like the US despite all the nice speeches and doctrine about freedom you have to remember that both societies had big populations of slaves and no votes for women.

Cheers!

:gulp:

[scamper]

Originally posted by Baby's On Fire
One of the many sickening things about religion is they all think theirs is the best.

Kind of like opinions on a web site :)

[Angel]

Originally posted by scamper
Kind of like opinions on a web site :)

BUWAHAHAHA!!!! Classic.

[dawiseone]

I don't even know where to start.....my god!!! Why do we call theese people terrorists? Lets say Iran was the strongest power in the world. And they felt like George Bush was a threat to all the region. As he actualy is. And in the middle of the night. Iran came and took over all our cities ...their tanks in the streets....people kicking down your door kicking you out of your house. Raping your sister and mother. Taking everyone between the ages of 14-60 to jail for suspected insurgency.And then put in place. A government of their choice who are going to rule with sharia law. Now honestly, think about this for a minute. If you had nothing but small arms and some hand grenades and stolen ordinances, with no air force, no organized army, no navy, just regular people, some of wich are x military. How long would it be before you resorted to the sort of things you see on the news everyday. Granted not as stupid but just as desperate. You wake up in the morning ....no job.... no money.....crime everywhere....no electricity....sewage in the streets....trash everywhere...your dad and brother are in jail for nothing. Your sister has been in a womans detention center for over a year, and you know for a fact she is being raped by Iranian soldiers over and over and even tortured. On the news you've seen the Iranian military murder over 750,000 innocent civilians old and children and women. And they say it's collateral damage. How would America view your actions for anything that you did in retalliation? Honestly! We would be lining up to kill theese fuckers. They would call us martyers and fredom fighters. Would they not? And in all fairness we would be. Canadins, French, Brits, Aussies, Mexicans and maybe even the Russians would cross are borders to help us. Sound familiar? I don't condone anything that has to do with killing innocent people but some of these people are only doing what they think is the right thing. And the only way it will stop is if we leave. Would you stop if the Iranians stayed here on every street corner? In tanks? and hummers? Islam does not say to kill the way theese people are killing. Thats the problem. Those fuckin sheiks are telling them that shit. You have to understand the Quran is only the word of god. Literly. Nothing that Mohammed said was included. Thats why when you read it, its not once upon a time kind of stories. It's exactley what the angel Gabriel told Mohammed Word for word that was recorded. Imagine what the bible would be like if we did that. We included the words of the prophets and the historians and songs and all that shit. Not to mention it is written in the most articulate and shakesperian proper Arabic possible. Most of the average people cannot understand it . It has to be studied by people for their entire lifes. And the tell the ordinary people what they think it means. They say it is so beuatifull that it can make a grown man with the hardest heart kneel and cry .....litterly.!!! And the translation looses about 90% of that. Anyways........... we have to look at both sides of the coin. I call myself a muslim I don't pray 5 times a day, But I don't drink. I don't eat pork. And I belive in the Quran. I was born here in America raised Baptist , baptised .Was a Christian until the age of 21. I'm half Saudi and Half Scottish. What a fuckin combo huh! Oh well I'm ramblin. Later.

[Baby's On Fire]

Only an idiot heeds the bible....or the Quran for that matter.

[Baby's On Fire]

Originally posted by scamper
Kind of like opinions on a web site :)


That's the trouble with religion; they all think theirs is the best. ;)

[FORD]

Half Saudi and Half Scottish? So you wear a dishtowel on your head AND a skirt? :D

[Baby's On Fire]

The carpet matches the drapes. I can only imagine where the women wear their bears.......

[Seshmeister]

I'm half Saudi and Half Scottish. What a fuckin combo huh! Oh well I'm ramblin. Later.

Half Scottish, pity I missed that. :)

If you can hear me may Allah grant you the wisdom of paragraphs...

[Baby's On Fire]

I like the part that says "we will fight them to the death".

So, let's kill all of them....that's what they want.

Then after that let's kill all the Christians, all the Jews, all the Mormons....on and on and on.

Because every religious freak is a fucking dangerous asshole.

[Seshmeister]

Well I hope dawiseone comes back to site.

My views on religion are pretty clear all over this site but you have to kind of admire someone with the balls to convert from Christian to Muslim in Texas... :)

[Dr. Love]

By now I'm sure you can admire his balls independent of the rest of him