North Korea Admits WMD's And Quits Treaty Talks

[blueturk]

Note to Dubya: THESE are WMD's!!! But of course, we need to worry about Iran first, right?


2/10/2005
North Korea admits having nuclear weapons
SEOUL, South Korea (AP) — North Korea publicly admitted Thursday for the first time that it has nuclear weapons, and said it wouldn't return to six-nation talks aimed at getting it to abandon its nuclear ambitions.
Diplomats have said that North Korea has acknowledged having nuclear arms in private talks, but this is the first time the communist government has said so directly to the public.

"We had already taken the resolute action of pulling out of the (Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty) and have manufactured nukes for self-defense to cope with the Bush administration's ever-more undisguised policy to isolate and stifle the DPRK," the North Korean Foreign Ministry said in a statement carried by the state-run Korean Central News Agency.

DPRK refers to the country's official name, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

North Korea's "nuclear weapons will remain (a) nuclear deterrent for self-defense under any circumstances," the ministry said. "The present reality proves that only powerful strength can protect justice and truth."

Since 2003, the United States, the two Koreas, China, Japan and Russia have held three rounds of talks in Beijing aimed at persuading the North to abandon nuclear weapons development in return for economic and diplomatic rewards. But no significant progress has been made.

A fourth round scheduled for September was canceled when North Korea refused to attend, citing what it called a "hostile" U.S. policy.

Thursday's statement came after President Bush started his second term last month by refraining from direct criticism of North Korea — raising hopes that the North would return to the stalled nuclear talks. But North Korea said it had little hope for improved ties during Bush's second term office.

"We have wanted the six-party talks but we are compelled to suspend our participation in the talks for an indefinite period till we have recognized that there is justification for us to attend the talks," the North said Thursday.

North Korea said it came to its decision because "the U.S. disclosed its attempt to topple the political system in the DPRK at any cost, threatening it with a nuclear stick."

Still, North Korea said it retained its "principled stand to solve the issue through dialogue and negotiations and its ultimate goal to denuclearize the Korean Peninsula remain unchanged."

[Nickdfresh]

But those Iranians better drop their WMD programs or there's gonna' be trouble, right Elvis?

[ODShowtime]

I'm starting to think the situation is hopeless.

[diamondD]

It's time for some other countries over there to step up and say the US isn't the North's only problem and start to put some pressure on them too. Everybody hates us, but then they sit there and wait on us to take care of the situation.

[FORD]

If North Korea was anywhere near oil or Israel, they would be PNAC target #1.

Kim Jung whatshisass isn't much different from the Chimp. Just an arrogant little loser trying to do his daddy's job.

[ELVIS]

North Korea is upset their Nuclear weapons didn't give them the political clout they hoped for, so they are stepping it up by announcing it publicly...

They have no intentions on nuking anyone...

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by ELVIS

They have no intentions on nuking anyone...

And you're the expert, with all of your inside intel gathering clearance:rolleyes:

[academic punk]

actually, incredibly, I agree with Elvis on this one.

and that makes me shiver.

[Big Train]

This is all sabre rattling and bluffing. I'm no too worried about either country. We are just gonna go along as planned.

Like I said before, the political stakes are too high to get involved with another country.

[ODShowtime]

Can't we just assasinate that little bastard? He put out a memo recently dictating proper socialist hairstyles. (I'm not bullshitting)

[Big Train]

Well the CIA COULD get involved...but people like Ford don't like that sort of thing. The BCE has done enough....I'm not saying I'm against it.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Big Train
Well the CIA COULD get involved...but people like Ford don't like that sort of thing. The BCE has done enough....I'm not saying I'm against it.

Actually, I think the biggest fear is "who would take his place?" He deserves death no doubt, but I not sure that the CIA is even sure he's still running North Korea.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Actually, I think the biggest fear is "who would take his place?" He deserves death no doubt, but I not sure that the CIA is even sure he's still running North Korea.

He seems stupid enough that a junta could set up under him and make all the real decisions without him even knowing. Just keep his budget running and he'll be happy.

I know this seems crazy, but I can assure you it's happened before ;)

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
He seems stupid enough that a junta could set up under him and make all the real decisions without him even knowing. Just keep his budget running and he'll be happy.

I know this seems crazy, but I can assure you it's happened before ;)

Seems Crazy?

Isnt that what happened with BUSH?????

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Seems Crazy?

Isnt that what happened with BUSH?????

That's what the wink was for :)

[blueturk]

Originally posted by ELVIS


They have no intentions on nuking anyone...

Of course not! Move along, nothing to see here! It's funny how Dubya talks tough about Iran even though he has no proof of nuclear weapons there, and then acts like North Korea is a minor inconvenience.
If only North Korea had oil......

" I see those nukes in Iran now!"

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by diamondD
It's time for some other countries over there to step up and say the US isn't the North's only problem and start to put some pressure on them too. Everybody hates us, but then they sit there and wait on us to take care of the situation.

YUP. It's time Japan, Russia, China, and South Korea started playing ball in this game.

Also, King Ding Dong isn't going to do squat. I agree with the others. He's just rattling his sabre. :gulp:

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
YUP. It's time Japan, Russia, China, and South Korea started playing ball in this game.

Also, King Ding Dong isn't going to do squat. I agree with the others. He's just rattling his sabre. :gulp:

Also, FORD needs to take his anti-BCE/ISRAEL pills today. :gulp:

[Nickdfresh]

I've heard the Chinese are getting pissed about the North Korean bandits and soldiers coming over their border and pillaging.

[Guitar Shark]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
YUP. It's time Japan, Russia, China, and South Korea started playing ball in this game.

Also, King Ding Dong isn't going to do squat. I agree with the others. He's just rattling his sabre. :gulp:

So is that the justification for all the tough talk against Iran and not N. Korea? That we think NK is just bluffing, but Iran isn't? NK has admitted having WMD, and they've gone further and said they'll use it if provoked. Iran has done no such thing; they have claimed that their nuclear proliferation is for energy purposes. I'm not saying I believe Iran, but that's the situation.

I seriously would like some of the conservatives to explain why they think it's okay to ignore North Korea and pursue sanctions and/or military action against Iran.

[Pink Spider]

Originally posted by Guitar Shark
So is that the justification for all the tough talk against Iran and not N. Korea? That we think NK is just bluffing, but Iran isn't? NK has admitted having WMD, and they've gone further and said they'll use it if provoked. Iran has done no such thing; they have claimed that their nuclear proliferation is for energy purposes. I'm not saying I believe Iran, but that's the situation.

I seriously would like some of the conservatives to explain why they think it's okay to ignore North Korea and pursue sanctions and/or military action against Iran.

Simple. Iran will have attacked us on September 11th very soon.

It's 1984 isn't it? We've always been at war with Iran.

North Korea is economically weak. It would be much harder for the neo-cons to national build off of that.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Guitar Shark

I seriously would like some of the conservatives to explain why they think it's okay to ignore North Korea and pursue sanctions and/or military action against Iran.

I have my suspicions...
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/fire/images/plan_fossilfuel_large.jpg

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Guitar Shark
So is that the justification for all the tough talk against Iran and not N. Korea? That we think NK is just bluffing, but Iran isn't? NK has admitted having WMD, and they've gone further and said they'll use it if provoked. Iran has done no such thing; they have claimed that their nuclear proliferation is for energy purposes. I'm not saying I believe Iran, but that's the situation.

I seriously would like some of the conservatives to explain why they think it's okay to ignore North Korea and pursue sanctions and/or military action against Iran.

I'm your Huckleberry. ( I liked that movie Tombstone :D )

I'll answer you GS since you and I have had reasonable dialogue lately without all the name-calling. :)

I certainly don't have all the answers and don't pretend to be a spokesman for the Bush Administration. I certainly don't agree with everything they do and don't KNOW everything they do. As iterated by myself and others in this thread and others before it, Kim Jung Il and North Korea is simply not seen as the threat to the world stage that a nuclear-armed Iran is. Why? One valid reason is:

Israel. Yeah, I know. It's the one word (or nation) that liberals shudder at. I'll see if I can find the direct translated quote, but some of the mullahs and clerics in Iran have vowed in the past that 80 -100 Million Muslim dead was acceptaple in retaliation as long as Israel was decimated from the map in a nuclear strike. Were they serious? Do we want to find out?

Nobody fears an Iran with peaceful nuclear power just to make electricity. What people fear is what those nuclear power plants can also do: enrich uranium and plutonium to make weapons.

Would they be willing to let inspectors in or would they hide their program?

[Guitar Shark]

Tombstone is a great flick. :cool:

Israel is a good answer, but doesn't get us all the way. Israel has nuclear weapons of its own, anyway, and they've proven more than capable of defending themselves over the last 50 years without our military help.

In contrast, North Korea has evidenced a sense of desperation, stemming largely from their lack of natural resources. They have to import the vast majority of the products they use. The nuclear threat is one of the few cards North Korea can play, and when you combine that with the level of desperation they have, it's a dangerous situation.

You have a good point about the inspectors, I think if Iran refuses to allow inspectors in, I'll be a lot more understanding of the current situation.

[Warham]

North Korea knows they'd be fucked if they launched a warhead. In fact, I'd just say remove North Korea from your world maps if that happened, knowing the retaliation they would receive.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Warham
North Korea knows they'd be fucked if they launched a warhead. In fact, I'd just say remove North Korea from your world maps if that happened, knowing the retaliation they would receive.

May as well remove most of North America while you're at it....

[Warham]

Who says we'd be involved. I'm sure China and NK will do just fine destroying each other without our involvement.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Warham
Who says we'd be involved. I'm sure China and NK will do just fine destroying each other without our involvement.

and India and Pakistan??


I just can't see something like that starting without the shit wafting into our yard

[Warham]

OK, so the four of them do square dancing. I still don't see why that would implicate us shooting our wad.

Unless we get hit, we aren't going to fire away.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Warham
OK, so the four of them do square dancing. I still don't see why that would implicate us shooting our wad.

Unless we get hit, we aren't going to fire away.

Isnt it the "innocent bystander" that inevitably picks up a stray....?


I just cannot fathom a nuclear strike ANYWHERE that does not entail us getting in the shit, one way or another.

But maybe I'm just having a "War Games" flash back:D

I'm no expert, but I thought I read somewhere, sometime a Pentagon official who claimed that no matter how they "game it", it always eventually came to us.

Not that I dont trust you, but all this talk makes me want to go buy canned goods:D

[Warham]

I think Mad Max whenever I think of a post-nuke scenario.

[diamondD]

With both, there is a serious threat of them selling to terrorists. I would personally like to see Israel take care of Iran and us focus our attention to NK, because they both deserve the world's immediate attention.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by diamondD
With both, there is a serious threat of them selling to terrorists. I would personally like to see Israel take care of Iran and us focus our attention to NK, because they both deserve the world's immediate attention.

Do what, drop a few bombs? That won't do it, and Israel will get a few SCUD's in return.

[diamondD]

Ok then, what do you suggest? Coddle them for years like you would like to have done with Iraq?

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by diamondD
Ok then, what do you suggest? Coddle them for years like you would like to have done with Iraq?

No, I'd rather coddle North Korea, they're much cuter and the chics are all really thin from state sponsored anorexia!

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/paramount_pictures/team_america__world_police/adversary.jpg

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
No, I'd rather coddle North Korea, they're much cuter and the chics are all really thin from state sponsored anorexia!

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/paramount_pictures/team_america__world_police/adversary.jpg

:D

[capnfrantic]

Would they be willing to let inspectors in or would they hide their program? Oh shit, we know where this goes.....

[blueturk]

Originally posted by diamondD
With both, there is a serious threat of them selling to terrorists. I would personally like to see Israel take care of Iran and us focus our attention to NK, because they both deserve the world's immediate attention.

Damn, I wonder which one Dubya will focus on?

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
I just cannot fathom a nuclear strike ANYWHERE that does not entail us getting in the shit, one way or another.

But maybe I'm just having a "War Games" flash back:D

I'm no expert, but I thought I read somewhere, sometime a Pentagon official who claimed that no matter how they "game it", it always eventually came to us.

this is my view as well:(

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
this is my view as well:(

And why the fuck are we still spending billions on SDI / Star Wars 20 years after it was proven it wont work....ever.:rolleyes:

Why arent we spending the money SECURING the old Soviet nukes so they dont fall into the hands of terrorists????

Why did we spend 300billion starting a war over WMD, which we KNEW didnt exist, when we KNEW where they were the whole time?

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
And why the fuck are we still spending billions on SDI / Star Wars 20 years after it was proven it wont work....ever.:rolleyes:

Why arent we spending the money SECURING the old Soviet nukes so they dont fall into the hands of terrorists????



Tell me this doesn't even make sense to you, does it? You're just bullshitting, right? :confused:

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Why arent we spending the money SECURING the old Soviet nukes so they dont fall into the hands of terrorists????

I'm still shocked that we never had more politicians grandstanding on how much money and effort we spent to buy up all the Soviet era nuclear weapons out there. That should have been a huge priority in the 90s. I am very afraid that that will be the harbinger of our doom. Seriously, I think that will be the reason why my way of life ends. Those same missiles the Soviets had pointed at us are still pointed at us.




Yes I am aware who the president was at that time Warham.

[kentuckyklira]

I love wearing my little North Korean flag button more and more!

Conservative American tourists love me for it!

[blueturk]

Recent developments...


U.S. refuses one-on-one North Korea talks
February 11,2005
By DEB RIECHMANN
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER

WASHINGTON -- The Bush administration said Friday that it wasn't interested in one-on-one talks with North Korea about its nuclear programs outside the six-party negotiations involving the communist nation's neighbors.

"It's not an issue between North Korea and the United States. It's a regional issue," White House press secretary Scott McClellan said. "And it's an issue that impacts all of its neighbors."

North Korea has plenty of opportunity to talk to the United States within six-party talks, McClellan said.

In an interview with a South Korean newspaper Friday, North Korea's U.N. envoy demanded bilateral talks with the United States.

"We will return to the six-nation talks when we see a reason to do so and the conditions are ripe," Han Sung Ryol told Seoul's Hankyoreh newspaper in an interview published Friday. "If the United States moves to have direct dialogue with us, we can take that as a signal that the United States is changing its hostile policy toward us."

U.S. officials believe North Korea, which is seeking bilateral talks with the United States, may have from four to two dozen nuclear devices, depending on the assumptions used about the bombs' designs.

The United States, South Korea, China, Japan and Russia have struggled to arrange a fourth round of talks aimed at persuading Pyongyang to abandon its nuclear weapons programs. The last round was held in June. A South Korean delegation is due in Washington on Monday for previously scheduled strategic talks and a Japanese group will arrive for consultations here later in the week.

McClellan noted that North Korea violated the 1994 Agreed Framework, a bilateral pact negotiated with the United States that froze Pyongyang's nuclear facilities in return for energy aid. That deal collapsed in late 2002 when U.S. officials accused the North of violating the accord by pursuing a secret nuclear program. The North denied the charge, withdrew from the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty and restarted its frozen nuclear facilities.

"North Korea violated that Agreed Framework and continued to pursue nuclear weapons," McClellan said. "We believe the six-party talks are the way to resolve this in a peaceful and diplomatic way."

"I think all countries in the region are saying to North Korea, that they need to come back to the talks so that we can talk about the proposal that we put on the table at the last round of talks," the spokesman said. "That proposal addresses the concerns of all parties and it provides the way forward for resolving this matter."

Consultations are already under way with China, a senior U.S. official said.

The United States will keep pushing for six-party talks and is urging its negotiating partners not to get rattled, said this official, speaking on condition of anonymity.