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LoungeMachine
02-12-2005, 10:18 PM
Articles
Saturday 12th February 2005 (22h28) :
Bush Says Social Security Trust Fund Doesn’t Exist
President Bush slipped something new into his Social Security pitch on Wednesday. And it was there again twice yesterday.

He says Social Security’s $1.8 trillion trust fund doesn’t really exist. Even in Washington, that’s a lot of money to go missing.

Here is Bush, from the transcript of his talk at the Commerce Department on Wednesday:

"Some in our country think that Social Security is a trust fund -- in other words, there’s a pile of money being accumulated. That’s just simply not true. The money -- payroll taxes going into the Social Security are spent. They’re spent on benefits and they’re spent on government programs. There is no trust. We’re on the ultimate pay-as-you-go system -- what goes in comes out. And so, starting in 2018, what’s going in -- what’s coming out is greater than what’s going in. It says we’ve got a problem. And we’d better start dealing with it now. The longer we wait, the harder it is to fix the problem."

Some quick background:

Social Security is indeed fundamentally a pay-as-you-go program. But ever since 1983, workers have been paying more in Social Security payroll taxes than was strictly necessary to cover benefits. The idea was to build up a reserve for when the Baby Boom retired.

By law, the proceeds -- and they have grown, with interest, to $1.76 trillion last I heard -- are invested in Treasury bonds. Just like the proceeds of other Treasury bonds, that cash is then spent by the government for its programs -- so it’s not just sitting there in a pile somewhere, just like Bush says. And, in fact, just like with other Treasury bonds, the government will have to raise the revenue down the road to pay them back eventually -- which may not be easy.

But does that mean the trust fund means nothing? That the 225 pieces of paper representing Special Issue U.S. Treasury Bonds in multibillion-dollar denominations that sit in a file cabinet in West Virginia are just so many czarist rubles?

(Read Larry Eichel’s story in the Philadelphia Inquirer last month for more on that file cabinet.)

It may be a blasphemous thought to liberals, but the libertarian wing of the Republican Party has been arguing this point for a while.

Bush first gave a glimpse of his emerging position in his State of the Union address, when he said: "Thirteen years from now, in 2018, Social Security will be paying out more than it takes in. And every year afterward will bring a new shortfall, bigger than the year before. For example, in the year 2027, the government will somehow have to come up with an extra $200 billion to keep the system afloat -- and by 2033, the annual shortfall would be more than $300 billion. By the year 2042, the entire system would be exhausted and bankrupt."

That left some people scratching their heads. If he was saying that the system was going to "somehow have to come up with" enough money to cover shortfalls starting in 2018 (i.e., that the trust fund doesn’t exist) then what is so different about 2042 (the year that, according to some estimates, the nonexistent trust fund would run out)?

Former Bush speechwriter David Frum, appearing on MSNBC’s Hardball with Chris Matthews right after the State of the Union address, hailed Bush for being bold enough to say "that the Social Security trust fund isn’t there, and the problem begins in 2018, not so very far away."

In his blog, Frum later explained: "If Fred writes an IOU for $10 to Jim, Jim has an asset. But if Fred writes an IOU to Fred for $10, he has not created an asset for himself -- he’s created a reminder notice.

"And that’s the situation of the Trust Fund."

But is Bush really saying that, or not? It’s not so clear.

Here he is, from the transcript of his talk yesterday afternoon in Pennsylvania.

First, the there-is-no-trust-fund paragraph:

"Now, one of the myths about Social Security is there’s a pile of money sitting there accumulating, because you put money in, the government saves it for you, and then when you retire you get it out. That’s not the way the system works. Every dime that goes in from payroll taxes is spent. It’s spent on retirees, and if there’s excess, it’s spent on government programs. The only thing that Social Security has is a pile of IOUs from one part of government to the next. This is a pay-as-you-go system."

But then, a paragraph that once again seem to suggest that there’s something there that goes away in 2042:

"And so, therefore, when you have more retirees living longer for greater benefits, with fewer people paying in, the system inevitably will go into the red. In 2018, 13 years down the road, it starts to go negative. And every year thereafter, the situation gets worse. In other words, more money is required to meet the promises. So that by the year 2027, the government is going to have to come up with $200 billion additional above and beyond the payroll taxes to meet promises -- and greater the next year, and greater the next year; $300 billion in 2037, until 2042, it’s broke. And that’s the dilemma we’re faced with."

It’s very confusing. And that’s not even getting into the fact that many experts dispute his figures and note that the system, even in the direst projections, will still be able to pay out benefits in 2042 that are considerably higher than current levels.

Bush says: "And the fundamental question is, are we willing to confront it?"

But the fundamental question may really be, what exactly is he saying?

Blogger Josh Marshall, who’s been rallying the left on Social Security, has no doubt what Bush is saying: "We and many others had predicted that the president’s angle here was to default on the Treasury bonds sitting in the Social Security Trust Fund. And now we can be pretty confident that he plans to do just that since today he said that the Trust Fund doesn’t even exist."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...


by : Dan Froomkin, WP
Saturday 12th February 2005

LoungeMachine
02-12-2005, 10:19 PM
Well it can't very well go bankrupt if it doesn't even exist

LoungeMachine
02-12-2005, 10:23 PM
I wish I could find the trancript of his "explanation" as to how his plan will work. He tried to answer a direct question from a woman in the audience [must have slipped past security]. His response sounded like Keith Richards on a bender

blueturk
02-12-2005, 11:32 PM
Here's a transcript where Dubya explains the "plan". This should make everything perfectly clear. Hope this helps, Lounge!

"Because the — all which is on the table begins to address the big cost drivers. For example, how benefits are calculate, for example, is on the table; whether or not benefits rise based upon wage increases or price increases. There's a series of parts of the formula that are being considered. And when you couple that, those different cost drivers, affecting those — changing those with personal accounts, the idea is to get what has been promised more likely to be — or closer delivered to what has been promised. Does that make any sense to you? It's kind of muddled. Look, there's a series of things that cause the — like, for example, benefits are calculated based upon the increase of wages, as opposed to the increase of prices. Some have suggested that we calculate — the benefits will rise based upon inflation, as opposed to wage increases. There is a reform that would help solve the red if that were put into effect. In other words, how fast benefits grow, how fast the promised benefits grow, if those — if that growth is affected, it will help on the red." —George W. Bush, explaining his plan to save Social Security, Tampa, Fla., Feb. 4, 2005

LoungeMachine
02-13-2005, 12:04 AM
Priceless turk.

thanks.

Clear as a bell now

KICKITJOE!
02-13-2005, 01:07 PM
He's still trying to clean up the mess Clinton left him. If the democrats wouldn't have rejected Bush's plan to invest social security in the stock market 4 years ago, this would be a non issue.

Nickdfresh
02-13-2005, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by KICKITJOE!
He's still trying to clean up the mess Clinton left him. If the democrats wouldn't have rejected Bush's plan to invest social security in the stock market 4 years ago, this would be a non issue.

Banner post Joe, now:

LoungeMachine
02-13-2005, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by KICKITJOE!
He's still trying to clean up the mess Clinton left him. If the democrats wouldn't have rejected Bush's plan to invest social security in the stock market 4 years ago, this would be a non issue.

What happened to your hiatus?

or your travelling to Cali with Minto?

or Columbus?

How about your ranting on the Wall today about your coke habit?

Stay out of the Frontline, loser.

As Rustoffa told you, leave your shit in the Dump.

By the way, when are you planning on paying me for your Superbowl bet?


Just because EVERY thread you start gets shut down in 5 minutes, doesn't mean you need to come in here and stink the Frontline up, dumbass

LoungeMachine
02-13-2005, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by KICKITJOE!
He's still trying to clean up the mess Clinton left him. If the democrats wouldn't have rejected Bush's plan to invest social security in the stock market 4 years ago, this would be a non issue.

You should have mentioned that when you spoke live from the stage at last year's Republican National Convention:rolleyes:

Or during your interview on PBS following:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Why do you bother?

Stick to claiming you wrote Classic VH songs and own this site.

At least that shit is funny:D

KICKITJOE!
02-13-2005, 01:27 PM
It's all true. If only you knew. You are in constant denial. I am unable to go into further detail as I may run for public office and need to play my cards right.

LoungeMachine
02-13-2005, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by KICKITJOE!
It's all true. If only you knew. You are in constant denial. I am unable to go into further detail as I may run for public office and need to play my cards right.

Like when you posted you were running for " Governer " [sic]

You can't even spell

BTW, you claim to be the CEO of NHS, which in truth is ex-State Senator M. Joesph Rocks, age 57

He's retired from public office.

It's all true?

You wrote Take your Whiskey Home?

You own this site?

Then where's the million you owe me?

Big Train
02-13-2005, 01:33 PM
Bush had said the plan was not set in stone, some were advocating price idexing vs. wage indexing.

I'm glad these "expert bloggers", what qualifies you for that I don't know, acknowledge the problem. Basically, what Bush is alluding to is that the money owed by other parts of government, assuming there ever was a surplus, is not going to be paid back, as the programs that borrowed them (Social programs, I'm looking in your direction..) don't have the capability to pay them back. We wrote some bad loans to fund things libs thought we should throw money at to solve.

KICKITJOE!
02-13-2005, 01:35 PM
my generous donations make me part owner. I won an achievment award at a very young age for writing what would turn out to be the chorus in "whiskey".

LoungeMachine
02-13-2005, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by KICKITJOE!
my generous donations make me part owner. I won an achievment award at a very young age for writing what would turn out to be the chorus in "whiskey".

really?

why no writing credit?

why no proof?

why if you're "part owner", do you need to change your name after each Banning?

why does every thread of your's get closed?

why can you NOT PROVE you ever wrote any VH songs as you claim?

:rolleyes:

The neocons in here must just LOVE to have you on their side:D

LoungeMachine
02-13-2005, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
. We wrote some bad loans to fund things libs thought we should throw money at to solve.

And the Republicunts are now the fiscal stewards????

I can't resolve your stand here BT, as much as I respect your views, with the fact we're spending BILLIONS on a war, while advocating making the tax cuts permanent.

Is there a precedent I'm unaware of for tax cuts during war time?

And if the "crisis" is as you claim, why are you even having trouble getting your own party on board?

LoungeMachine
02-13-2005, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by KICKITJOE!
It's all true. If only you knew. You are in constant denial. I am unable to go into further detail as I may run for public office and need to play my cards right.

Well I'm sure katydid, Big Bad Brie, and ELVIS will back you in your run for orafice.........

further detail?


:rolleyes:

Big Train
02-13-2005, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
And the Republicunts are now the fiscal stewards????

I can't resolve your stand here BT, as much as I respect your views, with the fact we're spending BILLIONS on a war, while advocating making the tax cuts permanent.

Is there a precedent I'm unaware of for tax cuts during war time?

And if the "crisis" is as you claim, why are you even having trouble getting your own party on board?

Tax cuts should be made permament as war should not be permanent. Social Security and whatever other "piggy banks" have been systematically raided over the years by both parties (which goes back to the core value I have which states vote for what is ON the bill, not what's added). As for my Team, which I admit to not consulting regularly, they are spending a lot on this war. However, as we have all agreed, they are locked in a position of having to do so now, as pulling out would be even more disatrous. There is no precedent for it, but there should be. Overall growth creates more money to be taxed more times, which creates more tax revenue to fund things such as war.

I don't work for the Repubs, so getting my own party on board hasn't been my top priority. It's a dicey issue and those who need to be reelected are treading much more carefully. Those who need the PR are railing against to as to appear as "independent " Thinkers. For these vary same reasons, I believe the concern over the draft and starting a war with Iran are highly overblown.

Nickdfresh
02-13-2005, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine

Is there a precedent I'm unaware of for tax cuts during war time?



NO!

Nitro Express
02-13-2005, 03:52 PM
Hey dumbass. The problems with Socialist Security existed long before Bill Clinton or George W. Bush. Social Security was fucked when most of us here were being pushed out of our mommies cunts in the 60's.

DLR'sCock
02-13-2005, 03:57 PM
Well I thought when Social Security Insurance was initially set up under ol' FDR it was meant to be a trust fund of sorts for the WORKING AMERICAN, then at some point the Gov't began spending the money as it came in...

Clinton had it under control with surpluses growing during and out of his admin, then Bush came in and raided the whole thing borrowing and spending and giving to the rich....

Nickdfresh
02-13-2005, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by Nitro Express
Hey dumbass. The problems with Socialist Security existed long before Bill Clinton or George W. Bush. Social Security was fucked when most of us here were being pushed out of our mommies cunts in the 60's.

The "problems" were that elderly retirees were living out their years in record poverty in the 60's, something we haven't really had a problem with for 40 years.

Explain to me how Social Security is "fucked?" Maybe you can do a better job than Dubya.