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SweetSecrets
02-13-2005, 08:49 PM
Panamark and I are thinking about getting an M-box. Does anybody out there have one of these? Is there something better anybody would suggest for home recording?:p

smaz
02-14-2005, 06:04 AM
Depends on what kind of home recording you wanna do ;) :D

Panamark
02-14-2005, 07:16 AM
Mainly guitars (electric, heavy and clean acoustic) and vocals.

I know a lot of people have given me advice on this, in fact I
got about 20 different solutions ! Im thinking Pro tools is the
way to go, but whats the best mixing desk or interface
box to get with it ? Mbox is looking like a good starting place.

Hardrock69
02-14-2005, 12:04 PM
Lotsa peeps use M-boxes. I personally have a Roland VS-1680, and when not using it to record to, I use it as an interface when recording to Nuendo on my PC.

Eyes of the Night
02-14-2005, 05:48 PM
Fuck MIDI!!! ... lmao but if you had to do it like me just so I can upload 30 second riffs of the TONE I have and wanted to share I'd use CUBASE ... simple yet effective even though I have the "bare bones" of what actual potential this program offers I barely flew under the radar of MIDI SHIT ...

Well that's the plan I saya, haven't actually done it yet;) ... about 225 bones for a bare bones package ... I wanted to take it back but you know how that goes:rolleyes: ... I'm just draggin' cause I don't want to pull my puter out from under it's "bed of dust" to install a fookin' special soundcard or at least one with an "A" looking logo on the back of the box it's held in ...

Hardrock69
02-15-2005, 01:56 PM
That was kinda why I got my Roland. I don't have to fuck with any PC shit. I can just turn it on, plug in an instrument, and hit record!

No Muss, no fuss. Won't crash, won't fuck up, perfect sound quality....

ELVIS
02-15-2005, 09:52 PM
Cubase is nice...

Hardrock69
02-16-2005, 03:08 AM
Yeah...ain't technology fun?
:D

Panamark
02-16-2005, 03:51 AM
Eyes ?? Do you really think I would be looking at MIDI ???????????

Fookin ell

Panamark
02-16-2005, 03:52 AM
Originally posted by ELVIS
Cubase is nice...

Yeah, also Cakewalk is meant to be good, but Im thinking
Pro Tools seems to be the standard now ??

jojo2371
02-16-2005, 07:02 PM
that roland vs-1680 is pretty sweet !!!

Hardrock69
02-16-2005, 11:09 PM
ProTools may be 'the standard' but I know a lot of producers who have switched to Steinberg Nuendo or Cubase.

Yeah, man Roland Rocks....

Panamark
02-17-2005, 03:49 AM
Originally posted by jojo2371
that roland vs-1680 is pretty sweet !!!

That does look sweet !!

But here is my question, are you better off with PC's with
Cubase/Pro Tools or dedicated devices like that roland vs-1680 ??

Surely with upgrades to software on a PC, its going to give more
flexibility in the future than a hard coded device like this ??

(I agree that it looks foookin cool !!)

Hardrock69
02-17-2005, 03:24 PM
Well, here are some pros and cons.

Pros:

1. Easy to use - basically plug in and rock.
2. Learning curve not too terribly steep.
3. Due to the fact that it is dedicated to recording ONLY, ya never have to worry about it crashing or some component fucking up as with a PC. Some of the newer versions of Hard Disc recorders can be bought with built in cd burners.
4. It is portable. I have a flight case that came with mine, so I can just pack it up and take it where ever I want to go. It can record up to 8 tracks simultaneously, so it can be used for live recording.

Con:
1. IT only has 2 XLR inputs, all the rest are 1/4".
2. VS-1680 records in a proprietary format that cannot be converted directly to wav files. You either have to run a line out to your pc and record the output to the pc, or else burn to a cd as "songs" with each track being assigned to a song and then a left or right channel. Big hassle.
The thing is, the VS-1680 has been out of production for some time, and Roland REFUSES to release it's proprietary audio code so that somebody can create a software package to make a direct conversion to wav files possible.
See, this means if you were to just back up a project on cd, and then put it in your cd-rom drive in your pc, the pc will not be able to read the disc at all. Note I said if you do a BACKUP (the unit can burn audio cds as well).

I sure as hell wish I could directly convert the proprietary file system to wav files. I even wrote a letter to the president/CEO of Roland International in Japan asking if they were going to do anything to address this issue. To my surprise, he actually wrote me back, and basically said "No" in a polite manner. Other than that, I am VERY pleased with it.

The bright side of the above problem is that if you get a VS-2480, it has the capability to export wav files to your PC. I think the VS-1880 can, but I am not certain.

4. You cannot record backwards with it. So if you wanna do something like apply backwards echo to a track, you have to fly the track over to your PC, use a wave editor like Sound Forge to apply the effect backwards, then you have to fly the track back into the Roland.

5. And you cannot use any PC-type audio plugins. You have to get FX cards from Roland in order to apply FX to your recorded tracks.

SO....that is the deal with the Roland VS series. Oh, and the A/D converters on my VS-1680 sound great. Much better than the A/D converters used in some high-end Digital Audio Workstations I have heard.

Yes, having a PC-based recording setup does have it's pros and cons as well. Periodically, Roland releases upgrades to it's OS on it's VS-series recorders, but of course you ARE basically stuck with their OS, FX plugins, etc. (unlike a PC)

For further info, check out www.vsplanet.com and click on "forums". There is a HUGE user community there that can answer any question about the Roland VS series.

Of course, Roland is not the only company that makes stand-alone units. Several other comapnies make competing stand-alone units

When I had the opportunity to buy this from a friend of mine who is a record producer here in Gnashville, I went for it. It came with 2 FX cards, the flight case, and an external CD burner. All for $1400. This was 2 years ago. You can find them for cheaper than that now I think.


Another producer friend of mine was using two VS-1680s linked together to produce demos and albums (making it a 32-track machine). He once commented to me that 15 years ago, it would have cost him $250,000 to get the kind of equipment that would equal what the VS-1680 can do.

I love it. I now have a digital recording studio in my house. And one more advantage to digital is if ya have to bounce tracks, there is no loss of quality.

Of course, different models and manufacturers have different capabilities. I can only go into details about my 1680.

Once my album project is complete, I will announce it. There is one song I am doing that was directly inspired musically by CVH, as it is a slow double-kick shuffle.


Hope this info has helped.

Rock on!

:)

Panamark
02-18-2005, 12:30 AM
Thanks HR69, that does help.

I would never buy a hard coded device that had a proprietry file
system that couldnt be converted. So that rules out the 1680
immediately. But you say the later models will do it. So they might
be worth looking at. Ive also had people here tell me the Zoom MRS-80 and the BOSS (forget the model) are great too..

Too many fookin options !!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Hardrock69
02-18-2005, 03:00 AM
Yeah. If you must have 16 channels, do your research and find one that can export directly to wav.

It would be nice if there was one you could hook the unit up to your PC by, say, a USB port and back the files up directly to your hard drive on the PC.

One other advantage to a stand-alone unit is the fact that there is zero latency. You record on it, you hear it all in real time with no delay.

With PC-based systems, you are always fighting to get your PC and/or sound card latency down to a reasonable figure. Unless of course you have a real ProTools rig including the hardware, which can = BIG $$$$$

So obviously the thing is to get a way to connect the two, so that you can transfer data between the two efficiently, so you can harness the strengths of both the standalone and the PC.

Just do your research, man, and I have no doubt you will find something that will work.

Damn I love technology!!
:D

Hardrock69
02-19-2005, 04:31 PM
For IN-DEPTH info on the Roland VS series, you can find the owner's manuals for the VS-1680, VS-1880, & the VS-2480 here:

http://www.stonesilk.com/vstudio.htm

Panamark
02-19-2005, 04:56 PM
Just out of interest, how do you burn stuff off the 1680 into a playable audio format for your home systems, if it doesnt convert to wave ?

Phil theStalker
02-19-2005, 05:23 PM
Pro Tools my ass.

Get a $9.95 cassette recorder from Radio Shack and put it on the front table in the club.

Go out and play live in a basement club like the Bealtes and the SeX PisToLS did you lazy fucks.

And just use white lights. No colored lights or lasers or dry ice effects crapola.

Now go out and have a goodtime, it's later than you think you audio fucks. There's no future for you types.

Cock Robin has spokeneth.


:spank:

STIV BATORS AND CHEETAH CHROME LIVED DOWNSTAIRS FROM ME
In Strongsville, OH, 1978
THIS IS OUR DEAD BOY FRIEND SID, BUT HE WASN'T IN THE BAND

Phil theStalker
02-19-2005, 05:24 PM
Well, maybe this is Sidney "no bloody Pro Tools" if I fakking attach it.

fak

Phil theStalker
02-19-2005, 05:27 PM
This is Stiv exactly the way I remember him.

This is a picture from the kitchen in CBGB's probably '76-'77.

Man, you fucking Pro Tools kids don't know how to have a killer goodtime.


Cock Robin has spokeneth, again.


:spank:
AIN'T IT FUN WHEN YOU KNOW THAT YOU'RE GOING TO DIE YOUNG

Phil theStalker
02-19-2005, 05:44 PM
Man, I meet the coolest people.

And do you know what?

They meet me.:D


For I am Cock Robin, I have partied with the Worthy and I have spokeneth again and again here and there unto you that there is no future, no future for you and you and you and you and you.


:spank:

NO FUTURE FOR YOU
DENVER "NEW WORLD AIRPORT" MURALS

Phil theStalker
02-19-2005, 05:46 PM
Denver rocks.


:spank:
DENVER AIRPORT MURAL

Panamark
02-20-2005, 03:00 AM
VIVA PHIL AND HIS SHIT RECORDINGS ! :)

Hardrock69
02-20-2005, 04:21 AM
You can use the VS-1680 to back up your projects, but it does so in a proprietary format that cannot be read by PCs or Macs.

You cannot hook a cable up to a PC and transfer files directly that can be read by a PC. Also, you cannot save your project on a data cd, and put it in you cd-rom drive of your PC, and read it with the PC, because it is not a DOS-based format. IF you use your burner to burn audio tracks, yes the PC will recognize it as audio and will play them. You just cannot transfer data files that the PC will read...

Kinda difficult to explain.

Am I clear as mud yet? ;)

Over at the vsplanet.com forums there have been threads created on this subject for many years....

But as I said, the VS-2480 can export the tracks as individual wave files, and I am not sure if the VS-1880 can or not. And there are other digital hard-disk recorders by other manufacturers that can export as wav files as well.

Just do your reasearch to find out more.

:)

flappo
02-20-2005, 05:50 AM
hardrock69 should be a mod here !

Phil theStalker
02-20-2005, 05:51 AM
flappo, did you know I'm Cock Robin?

Do you want my autograph?


:spank:

Phil theStalker
02-20-2005, 05:58 AM
Let's see, o1ne of mmy old lyrics.

"GOD BLESS AMERICA"

God Bless America for shooting John Lennon

And God Bless America for killing Dr. King

God Bless America for depleted nuclear waste

And God Bless America for fascist Watergate

Chorus:
God bless America
God Bless America
God Bless America
God Bless America


..yoo git de idea..

..mmaybe Virgin will still sign mme..


:spank:

Panamark
02-20-2005, 06:22 AM
Originally posted by Phil theStalker
Well, maybe this is Sidney "no bloody Pro Tools" if I fakking attach it.

fak

Didnt know you were such a Pistols freak Phil. I fookin think the
Pistols rocked !

Poor old Sid looked like he was in his final stages in that pic..
Skinny fookin heroine arms..http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=408022

Phil theStalker
02-20-2005, 06:52 AM
Originally posted by Panamark
Didnt know you were such a Pistols freak Phil. I fookin think the
Pistols rocked !

Poor old Sid looked like he was in his final stages in that pic..
Skinny fookin heroine arms..
I'm Cock Robin.

Do you want my autograph? $5


:spank:

ashstralia
02-20-2005, 07:17 AM
mark, i've been using the zoom
mrs 802 w/
cd burner for a year now,
it pumps out great quality.

i,ve done tv and radio ads that
sound as good as gold.

a usb interface is $250 ish.
and will import/ export .wav files

the only hassle, only two inputs.
so if ya wanna record drums
(i don't, i use the inbuilt drum mach.)
you need a submixer etc.

i've seen the zoom on special these days,
as there have been some upgraded models.

oh, and get a couple of rode mic's. they rock.

Phil theStalker
02-20-2005, 07:23 AM
Originally posted by ashstralia
mark, i've been using the zoom
mrs 802 w/
cd burner for a year now,
it pumps out great quality.

i,ve done tv and radio ads that
sound as good as gold.

a usb interface is $250 ish.
and will import/ export .wav files

the only hassle, only two inputs.
so if ya wanna record drums
(i don't, i use the inbuilt drum mach.)
you need a submixer etc.

i've seen the zoom on special these days,
as there have been some upgraded models.

oh, and get a couple of rode mic's. they rock.
Do you know that in mental institutions years ago they had blue lights in the wards?


:spank:

Panamark
02-20-2005, 07:30 AM
Originally posted by ashstralia
mark, i've been using the zoom
mrs 802 w/
cd burner for a year now,
it pumps out great quality.

i,ve done tv and radio ads that
sound as good as gold.

a usb interface is $250 ish.
and will import/ export .wav files

the only hassle, only two inputs.
so if ya wanna record drums
(i don't, i use the inbuilt drum mach.)
you need a submixer etc.

i've seen the zoom on special these days,
as there have been some upgraded models.

oh, and get a couple of rode mic's. they rock.


I hadnt forgotten this recomendation, Dave. Just checking all
options, it might be that we go for this one. Sounds pretty
good. The thing that appeals to me however about
PC solutions is the obvious upgrade path and flexibilty.

Hey dude you need to check out a thread in Feedback to Webmasters.
(Dissin your name)

Cheers,

-Mark

ashstralia
02-20-2005, 07:35 AM
Originally posted by Panamark
Hey dude you need to check out a thread in Feedback to Webmasters.
(Dissin your name)

Cheers,

-Mark [/B]

yeah i know, i got bored of playing with that
dickhead, no challenge.

GO RABBITS!!!!!!!

Panamark
02-20-2005, 07:50 AM
I see they had a win !

(Although no points involved, a good start none the less !)

ashstralia
02-20-2005, 08:06 AM
yes, it was impressive,
five tries to one,
i sat at the pub in my rabbits jersey,
and didn't the vb's taste good!!!!

i hope ya eels go good bud.

Panamark
02-20-2005, 08:11 AM
Well my AFL side Carlton, won their first game in the Wizard Cup
today, so that was cool. They have been in the wilderness for the
last few seasons. Ive been waiting a long time for the Eels.
(Since the 80's) Ive seen Carlton win 10 flags in my lifetime.

ashstralia
02-20-2005, 08:19 AM
cool!
hope it's blue's year in both codes, mate!

rabbits last premiership = 1971
last minor prem = 1989

i'm an optimist!!!
heheh

ashstralia
02-20-2005, 08:25 AM
Originally posted by Panamark
The thing that appeals to me however about
PC solutions is the obvious upgrade path and flexibilty.


back on topic for a change!

yeah, these are things to be weighed up.
the portability factor is another big thing for me.

i can't bring a piano into my studio,
but i can take my studio to the piano.

with your background and applications though,
a pc set-up may be just the ticket.

there's shit-loads of cool plug - ins for pro tools, too.

Panamark
02-21-2005, 02:49 AM
portability is a good consideration. Especially as we will most likely need to record the drums at a seperate location.

I guess a powerful Laptop and a Mbox would still be portable enough?

Hardrock69
02-21-2005, 10:51 AM
Yeah that would work fine. I have a friend who records many live shows in Gnashville using a laptop and Nuendo.

Yes, the complete and massive amount of various types of software and plugins available for PC-based stuff is pretty overwhelming.

If all I had was my Roland, there would be stuff I would be unable to accomplish for sure.

Certainly the plugins called Waves are an incredible asset and are very highly recommended.

Panamark
03-10-2005, 07:13 AM
Just an update to this, did you all realize you can download Pro tools for free, for use with standard soundcards, but only with Win98 and
MAC, Its at their site.. www.digidesign.com

Anyone tried this ?? Does it suck compared to say Pro tools LE with
an Mbox ??

I would get one of the latest Creative Audigy cards... (Which are
full duplex)

Hardrock69
03-11-2005, 05:22 PM
I have a hacked version of that Pro Tools download...the free version will allow you to only use 8-tracks, I believe. This hacked version I have expands that limit to 32 tracks.

I donwloaded it before Windows XP came out, so I have not bothered to see if it works with it.....if not in XP then in compatibility mode for Win98 or someting.

One of these days....

Panamark
03-12-2005, 09:12 AM
Cool !

I havent even tried it yet, in fact they clain that the free version will
not work with XP.

32 tracks hey ? hmmmm Gotta love hacks... :)

BrownSound1
03-12-2005, 03:07 PM
Win98 scares me for recording....too crash happy, and that's something you don't want. Also, I recommend saving your audio files on a secondary hard drive...as in one that isn't the same one your OS is located on.

Panamark
03-15-2005, 06:44 AM
Yeah, also the fact that Win98 is FAT32 file system too, is not great.
You couldnt put a 200gig drive in there either.

GAR
03-24-2005, 12:26 AM
Originally posted by Panamark
I would never buy a hard coded device that had a proprietry file
system that couldnt be converted.

I was looking for something under the $1000 threshold of pain, and decided I would try the Mbox, with a firewire connection.

Get a firewire input, anything else isn't fast enough.

Panamark
03-27-2005, 10:59 PM
GAR,

I think we will be buying the Mbox too. So USB 2.0 doesnt cut it ???

BrownSound1
03-28-2005, 02:49 AM
Gar does have a point with Firewire...you get a lot faster transfer rates with it over USB 2.0. Hell, a Firewire card doesn't cost shit either...I think it would be a good investment. I've got 4 firewire ports on my computer...use it mostly for my digital camcorder though.

Panamark
03-28-2005, 07:43 AM
Yeah, I agree that Firewire has always been the faster connection type, however a lot of the latest electronic devices are moving back
to USB. Many of the new Digital Video Cameras now use USB 2.0.

No biggie to get a firewire card, but would be surprised if USB 2.0
(which can handle mpeg 2) wouldnt be good enough for audio ?