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Cathedral
02-16-2005, 04:55 PM
Iran, Syria Partnership Raises Eyebrows
Wednesday, February 16, 2005
By Liza Porteus


Iran and Syria on Wednesday said they would unite against any challenges or threats to their nations' livelihoods, a move that could raise the stakes in the ongoing international dramas involving both countries.

The announcement came on the same day that a large explosion supposedly rocked the southern Iranian city of Dailam (search), but details remained sketchy about what happened.

On the alliance issue, Iranian Vice President Mohammad Reza Aref (search), after meeting with Syrian Prime Minister Naji al-Otari (search), told reporters in Tehran: "We are ready to help Syria on all grounds to confront threats."

"This meeting, which takes place at this sensitive time, is important, especially because Syria and Iran face several challenges and it is necessary to build a common front," he added.

Both Iran and Syria are in the midst of international disputes with the United States. The two have had warm relations since the Iranian Revolution in 1978, and Syria supported Iran during the latter's 1980-88 war against Iraq.

Observers said an alliance of any kind between the two nations wouldn't be good.


"They feel the ground shifting under them" as democracy begins to take root in neighboring Iraq, Robert McFarlane (search), who served as national security adviser to President Reagan, told FOX News.

"It's a very misguided effort, this idea of cooperation between Iran and Syria," McFarlane continued. "They've wreaked years and years of devastation to Lebanon and the sponsorship of terrorism."

Syria was invited into Lebanon in 1976 to quell that country's nascent civil war. The war did not end until 1990, and Syria has loosely controlled Lebanon ever since.

Iran has been the main provider of funding and weapons to Lebanese Hezbollah (search), the fundamentalist Shiite militia, terrorist group and political party that forced U.S. and French troops out of Beirut in 1983 and the Israeli army out of southern Lebanon during the 1990s.

"[Iran and Syria] have been joined for a long time in creating terrorism in the region," Air Force Lt. Gen. (Ret.) Tom McInerney told FOX News. "That shouldn't be any surprise to any of us, they've just now announced it publicly."

Sanctions for Syria?

In one sign that the situation in Syria is far from rosy, the United States on Tuesday recalled its ambassador to signal displeasure with Damascus over Monday's killing of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik al-Hariri (search).

Al-Hariri, a Sunni Muslim billionaire credited with rebuilding post-civil war Lebanon, was killed in a massive car bombing a few months after he had taken a stance against Syria's presence in his country.

The Lebanese opposition believes Syria was involved in the assassination, while the pro-Syrian Lebanese government has obliquely pointed the finger at Islamic fundamentalists or Israel. The U.N. Security Council has demanded that Lebanon find those responsible.

Edward Djerejian, director of the Baker Institute at Rice University, said Hariri's killing was just the latest of a series of "horrible" political assassinations in Lebanon.

"Instead of [being removed] through the ballot box, Lebanese leaders have been brutally killed," Djerejian told FOX News. He added that Hariri's killing "really is causing all the issues of Lebanon's independence, sovereignty to come to the floor."

U.S. officials are considering imposing new sanctions on Syria because of its refusal to withdraw its 14,000 troops from Lebanon and or kick Palestinian militant groups such as Hamas out of Damascus.

American officials also believe many Iraqi insurgents are being supplied and directed by Saddam-era officials based in Syria, and that many foreign fighters in Iraq come through Syria.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said this week that the United States would "continue to consider other options" when asked if new sanctions against Syria would be pushed by the American government.

"The Syrian problem is a serious problem," Rice added. "Our problems with the Syrian government are not new."

The international community has to back sanctions in order for them to be effective, Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison told FOX News Wednesday.

"Once again, it takes away a lot of the leverage of the world to try to help people who want to be free," said the Texas Republican, referring to how some countries seem unwilling to force sanctions upon Syria.

"We don't have anyone standing up saying, 'We should have sanctions, we should act swiftly to show Syria and the world that the people of Lebanon can stand up on their own determination,'" she added.

The U.S. and France, Syria and Lebanon's former colonial power, jointly sponsored a U.N. Security Council resolution last month reiterating "strong support for the territorial integrity, sovereignty and political independence of Lebanon ... under the sole and exclusive authority of the Government of Lebanon."

McFarlane said the United Nations should take a stronger stance in telling Syria to get out of Lebanon — or else.

"I think in the wake of this tragedy [the assassination of Hariri], it's timely for the U.N. to pass another resolution, with some teeth in it this time, to require Syrian to withdraw," he said. "It's been a continuing menace for years and years, but this marks an appropriate time for Syria to withdraw its troops."

Added McInerney: "The Lebanese people are sick of the Syrians. Let's take advantage of that."

The U.S. has a long and complicated relationship with Syria, which despite being on the State Department list of terrorism-sponsoring countries, and a perpetual foe of Israel, has always maintained full diplomatic relations with Washington.

Syria joined the U.S.-led international coalition against Iraq in the 1991 Gulf War, and Syrian intelligence contributed to U.S. efforts to track down Al Qaeda members after the Sept. 11 attacks.

Iran is also on America's and the international community's terror watch list.

President Bush has branded Iran part of an "axis of evil," along with pre-war Iraq and North Korea, calling it "the world's primary state sponsor of terror."

He also has accused Tehran of attempting to build up its atomic-energy program in order to make nuclear weapons; oil- and natural gas-rich Iran argues that its program is legitimate and only for electricity generation.

Not helping matters were unnamed U.S. officials telling The Washington Post last week that spy drones have been flying over Iran for nearly a year to seek evidence of nuclear weapons programs, drones that many Iranian witnesses took for UFOs.

Iran's intelligence chief on Wednesday threatened to shoot down the unmanned surveillance crafts.

Meanwhile, Russia on Wednesday confirmed long-standing rumors and said it planned to sell Syria advanced anti-aircraft missile systems, although it insists that shoulder-fired weapons aren't in the mix. Moscow had earlier denied it would supply missiles to its Cold War client.

The United States and Israel have urged Moscow to drop any such plans, saying new Russian arms supplies would only strengthen militants in the Middle East.

"Talks are underway with this country to sell it Strelets air defense short-range missile systems," the Russian Defense Ministry said in a statement.

"We are very concerned about any potential sale of weapons to Syria," the U.S. State Department said in a statement Wednesday. "As we become aware of such sales, we will raise that issue with the appropriate government officials. The transfer of weapons to Syria, of these weapons discussed in the press, could trigger sanctions under U.S. law for tranfer of lethal military equipment to a state sponsor of terrorism."

Amb. Robert Kimmitt, former undersecretary of state under President George H.W. Bush, said the current U.S. president's upcoming trip to Europe could be a great opportunity to tackle Iran and Syria head-on.

"They have been an 'axis of instability' in that part of the world for some time," Kimmitt told FOX News.

He added that it would be important for Bush to have face-to-face discussions with European leaders about Iran, Syria "and any other nations that are supporting terrorism elsewhere" in order to garner multilateral support.

"This face-to-face dialogue is something we've been missing for awhile. It's a great first step for this president," Kimmitt said.

Blast in Iran?

As of midday Wednesday, there was no clear answer whether there had been a large blast in southern Iran or what caused it.

Iranian state television initially reported that an unknown aircraft fired a missile in a desert area near the southern city of Dailam in Bushehr province, the location of a nuclear power plant.

The television channel later said, however, that the explosion may have been caused by a fuel tank dropping from an Iranian plane.

The Iranian Revolutionary Guards said there was no attack in Iran and denied reports of a falling fuel tank.

"A powerful explosion was heard this morning on the outskirts of Dailam in Bushehr province (search). Witnesses said that the missile was fired from an unknown plane 20 km [12 miles] from the city," Iran's Arabic-language Al-Alam television channel said.

The incident was not reported on Iran's Persian-language television channels.

An interior ministry spokesman, Jahanbakhsh Khanjani, later told The Associated Press: "An airplane flew over Deylam [sic] today. Minutes later, there was an explosion."

"But we have no reason to say it's a hostile attack," he added. "There is a big possibility that it was friendly fire by mistake. Several such mistaken friendly-fire incidents have been reported there in recent days."

Another senior official said the blast was caused during dam construction. A military official later confirmed that the construction caused the blast.

"The explosion that occurred in the Dailam region was that of dam-building operations," Ali Agha Mohammadi, a member of the Supreme National Security Council, told the Iranian Students' News Agency.

Israeli security officials said their military was not involved. Israeli warplanes in 1981 destroyed the French-built Osirak nuclear power plant outside Baghdad.

The Russian embassy in Tehran also said there was no attack on the nuclear power plant, according to Reuters. Russia built the Bushehr nuclear reactor, which has not yet gone into operation.

U.S. officials said they had no information about a blast, but were checking on the matter.

"We've seen the reports, and we're looking into it," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said.

Separately, a Defense Department spokesman stressed to Reuters that "it is U.S. policy to deal with Iran in a diplomatic manner."

The State Department also said it had no information but was looking into the blast reports.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

Mezro
02-16-2005, 05:09 PM
Syria & Iran Unite.

Mezro...all the hairy women in the world under one umbrella...

Little_Skittles
02-16-2005, 06:09 PM
lmao mezro.

kentuckyklira
02-16-2005, 07:16 PM
GOOD!

Cathedral
02-16-2005, 08:15 PM
Originally posted by kentuckyklira
GOOD!

Yeah you'll think good when this shit turns into global nuclear warfare, prickly prick.

FORD
02-16-2005, 08:28 PM
All they need now is Russia and Ethiopia to join in.....

Unless this is all PNAC bullshit, of course.

Little_Skittles
02-16-2005, 08:42 PM
yay what fun.....i'm going to die before i turn 21 and get to expierance all the "good" stuff.

kentuckyklira
02-17-2005, 06:11 AM
Originally posted by Cathedral
Yeah you'll think good when this shit turns into global nuclear warfare, prickly prick. Iran and Syria didnīt start this shit, baby Bush and the goons surrounding him did!

Itīs up to those assholes to learn to behave on a global scale. Till that happens, you canīt blame countries like Iran and Syria doing what they can to protect themselves!

Nickdfresh
02-17-2005, 08:04 AM
Originally posted by kentuckyklira
Iran and Syria didnīt start this shit, baby Bush and the goons surrounding him did!

Itīs up to those assholes to learn to behave on a global scale. Till that happens, you canīt blame countries like Iran and Syria doing what they can to protect themselves!

I agree. Bush, Rummy, and those Neo Con buffoons have to learn the limits of military power before we are embroiled in a WWII/Korea/Vietnam scale conflict.

And spare the regime change BS. We had no problem with Syria's regime when they were our ally in the first Gulf War.

Cathedral
02-17-2005, 08:46 AM
Syria was never a solid ally to the U.S. and for the record this shit did not all just come out of the woodwork during the Bush Admin.
This shit has been going on for years and years.

How many times are we supposed to ignore terrorist attacks?

You know what, I'm sick and fucking tired of going round and round with people that would rather support the enemy than their own country.

If you keep turning your backs to those fucks your going to die, period.
Syria and Iran train people to kill YOUR family as well as mine.

I just don't get how ignorant to the big picture a lot of people are.
It's sad, very very sad.

FORD
02-17-2005, 09:23 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cathedral


How many times are we supposed to ignore terrorist attacks?

Ask Junior. When 19 Saudi Arabians allegedly attacked this country, he bombed the guys (Taliban) who backtracked on a gas pipeline deal instead. Then he started building a case of lies so he could go after the guy who "tried to kill his Daddy".

So far, he's done NOTHING in response to the actual terrorist attack.

You know what, I'm sick and fucking tired of going round and round with people that would rather support the enemy than their own country.

Israel is not my country. And that's who the PNAC'ers work for. And nobody is supporting "the enemy" around here. Actually that would be difficult since the so-called enemy in this case is mostly fictional. There is NO SUCH FUCKING THING as a "world wide terraist network" named Al Qaeda.



I just don't get how ignorant to the big picture a lot of people are.
It's sad, very very sad.

Indeed......

Cathedral
02-17-2005, 09:51 AM
Look man, I understand your points, and a lot of them are indeed valid. But we as a nation have to come together to form some kind of unity for our troops entrenched in battle.

The division in america that is evident to the whole world does nothing but bolster the enemy.
I would just like to see the political attacks stop while our brothers and sisters are over there.
If we were to band together as a Nation solely for the troops then it would send a message across the globe that we aren't fucking around.

We are there, like it or not, and we can't leave until the job is finished.

Can't we focus on making the best of things until our troops can come home?
And for God's sake put up a candidate that isn't hard left so we at least have a damn choice next time.
I'm not interested in a left or right slanted government, I want a straight shooter that represents every damn one of us without the rhetoric we have been submersed in for years.

But i want that President to have a backbone and not be afraid to confront the major threats of our time.

kentuckyklira
02-17-2005, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by Cathedral
Syria was never a solid ally to the U.S. and for the record this shit did not all just come out of the woodwork during the Bush Admin.
This shit has been going on for years and years.

How many times are we supposed to ignore terrorist attacks?

You know what, I'm sick and fucking tired of going round and round with people that would rather support the enemy than their own country.

If you keep turning your backs to those fucks your going to die, period.
Syria and Iran train people to kill YOUR family as well as mine.

I just don't get how ignorant to the big picture a lot of people are.
It's sad, very very sad. Iīll give you a short version of what Nick stated quite correctly:

NO SYRIAN EVER EXECUTED A TERRORIST ATTACK ON ANY AMERICAN WHATSOEVER!

The same is true concerning Syrians attacking Europeans as well!

Cathedral
02-17-2005, 10:03 AM
Daddy Bush sent how many Iraqi's to slaughter by pulling out after promoting an uprise in '91?
THAT'S the damn reason i didn't vote for him a second time, along with his "Read My Lips" speech.

Since then i have seen Iraq as a job unfinished, and my heart has been with the Iraqi's since.

I don't give a rats ass about WMD's, I just wanted the job finished, and if you look at the war in Iraq as a single issue, then your arguments make sense.
But if you back up and see the big picture of the war on terrorism, it is a strategically smart move to begin in Iraq and in the process millions of Iraqi's are on the road to waht i and all of us should hope is a huge step in bring peace and freedom to the entire region.

I care more for the needs of the many than i do the deeds of a few.

Nickdfresh
02-17-2005, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by Cathedral
Look man, I understand your points, and a lot of them are indeed valid. But we as a nation have to come together to form some kind of unity for our troops entrenched in battle.

The division in america that is evident to the whole world does nothing but bolster the enemy.
I would just like to see the political attacks stop while our brothers and sisters are over there.
If we were to band together as a Nation solely for the troops then it would send a message across the globe that we aren't fucking around.

We are there, like it or not, and we can't leave until the job is finished.

Can't we focus on making the best of things until our troops can come home?
And for God's sake put up a candidate that isn't hard left so we at least have a damn choice next time.
I'm not interested in a left or right slanted government, I want a straight shooter that represents every damn one of us without the rhetoric we have been submersed in for years.

But i want that President to have a backbone and not be afraid to confront the major threats of our time.

Sorry but I don't want anymore troops to die unnecessarily in another "big nothing" like the guys in the closing days of Vietnam. How many guys died there due to Nixon's "Peace with Honor" or LBJ's gross miscalculations. We never seem to learn from history do we? or we learn the wrong lessons.

I agree with Ford that we ARE manipulated. I also disagree strongly with many of Ford's points and rationales. But I agree with his objectives.

Killing off the Taliban was a good thing! There IS a network of al-Qaida, did many of them once have ties to the CIA, surely. But many of the people murdered on 9/11 would be irate to know that their murders were used ans an excuse to invade Iraq while the hysteria of the American people has been grossly perverted into some form of the interventionist Nationalism of Neo Con traiters and whores.

I mean how tough is it? Did we fucking bomb China during WWII in retaliation for the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor? Maybe Dubya gets his history from this guy:
http://www.bbring.com/ahpics/bluto.jpg
:confused:

Cathedral
02-17-2005, 11:10 AM
Have i ever mentioned that i hate poltics and war?

I'm all about peace, love, and happiness.
Maybe we should just dissolve our military and forget about ever doing anything good for the people on this planet.

Let em all suffer, and with any luck we'll be suffering right along with them before long.

Nickdfresh
02-17-2005, 11:47 AM
Lets fire one up and head to a Phish concert! Peace & love....

ELVIS
02-17-2005, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by FORD


There is NO SUCH FUCKING THING as a "world wide terraist network" named Al Qaeda.





Al Qaeda does exist. It's not somr BCE scare tactic as you would lead us to believe...

More importantly, militant islamists DO exist. They are in huge numbers throughout the land of sand, and they are quietly spreading to every country, including the US. They are infiltrating our colleges and universities, because they know one way to get us is through our young people...

If you don't recognize the Islamic missionary effort that is right in front of your eyes, you are blind...

They believe they are in a Jihad with western civilization, and any other religion, particularly Christianity and Judaism. Jihad is viewed as a service in the spread and defense of Islam...

There are close to 10 million muslims in the US today, 30 years ago, Islam was basically nonexistent...

No matter how peaceful many muslims are, their core doctrine allows for no other faith to exist peacefully alongside them...



:elvis:

Seshmeister
02-17-2005, 12:30 PM
Unlike the super peaceful Christians...

ELVIS
02-17-2005, 12:33 PM
Basically, yes...


:elvis:

Seshmeister
02-17-2005, 12:41 PM
LOL!

BigBadBrian
02-17-2005, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
Unlike the super peaceful Christians...


I don't think you'll see Christians marching in en masse in entire countries calling for the destruction of entire nations...well maybe Scotland. :gulp:

Nickdfresh
02-17-2005, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
Al Qaeda does exist. It's not somr BCE scare tactic as you would lead us to believe...

More importantly, militant islamists DO exist. They are in huge numbers throughout the land of sand, and they are quietly spreading to every country, including the US. They are infiltrating our colleges and universities, because they know one way to get us is through our young people...

If you don't recognize the Islamic missionary effort that is right in front of your eyes, you are blind...

They believe they are in a Jihad with western civilization, and any other religion, particularly Christianity and Judaism. Jihad is viewed as a service in the spread and defense of Islam...

There are close to 10 million muslims in the US today, 30 years ago, Islam was basically nonexistent...

No matter how peaceful many muslims are, their core doctrine allows for no other faith to exist peacefully alongside them...



:elvis:

Oh brother?:rolleyes: We fucking went from there is no al-Qaida to al-Qaida is everywhere. Be afrais of everything. Let's gas the Muslims. :rolleyes: :( Is there any room for the middle anymore?

ELVIS
02-17-2005, 01:45 PM
Define middle...

Angel
02-17-2005, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS

No matter how peaceful many muslims are, their core doctrine allows for no other faith to exist peacefully alongside them...



:elvis:

BULLSHIT! They are brothers with other believers in the book. There are only 3 faiths that are believers in the book. They are Christianity, Judaism and Islam.

Anyone that is not a believer in the book is an infidel.

Your fundamental Christianity is very frightening, Elvis, and may I add quite hypocritical.

Nickdfresh
02-17-2005, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
Define middle...

Not in denial nor psychotic, using common sense.

ELVIS
02-17-2005, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by Angel
BULLSHIT! They are brothers with other believers in the book. There are only 3 faiths that are believers in the book. They are Christianity, Judaism and Islam.

You are incorrect...

Muslims believe in Biblical scripture, but they believe it to be corrupted. The believe the Koran to be the final revelation...

Anyone that is not a believer in the book is an infidel.

They mean the Koran...

Your fundamental Christianity is very frightening, Elvis, and may I add quite hypocritical.

You don't know what you're talking about...

ELVIS
02-17-2005, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Not in denial nor psychotic, using common sense.

Common sense tells me that Islamic militants take their "cause" very seriously...

If you choose to look the other way and blame everything on George Bush, be my guest...

Nickdfresh
02-17-2005, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
Common sense tells me that Islamic militants take their "cause" very seriously...


If you choose to look the other way and blame everything on George Bush, be my guest...

Common sense tells me you haven't a clue between who's a militant and who is just Islamic.

BTW, you are a hypocrite! Do I have to post another picture of McViegh? I've never heard you condemn him as a Christian 'Militant' or a baby killer. Should I think all Christians are fanatical hypocrites as the result of his bombing and lump you into one of them.

Cathedral
02-17-2005, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Lets fire one up and head to a Phish concert! Peace & love....

It's been a long time since i touched any reefer...But i'm game and Phish rules.

Cathedral
02-17-2005, 03:48 PM
How many Christian faiths are there in the world? 100?
Oh, make that 101 if you include the doctrine my Mother and her Husband make up on a daily basis.

We don't discuss religion anymore because she gets angry when i use the bible to counter her off the mark preaching.

I told you how she tried to use God to extort money from me.
And just yesterday i heard her tell my brother she didn't want to buy a new car because God said she is not to be in debt to anyone ever again.
I asked her if maybe it had more to do with the fact that she is in default on a few credit cards and has bill collectors calling her everyday...

The Super Prophets thing started 10 years ago when her husband decided he didn't want to work anymore and quit his job, actually he retired early giving up 1/3 of his retirement.
He claimed that God had work for him to do but to date has done nothing but sit at home and fill her head full of "God said this today, and we must obey"...she's brainwashed and they're both lost souls in my opinion.

It's either that or the world famous "Old People" trying to get into heaven schtick.

I'm a realist, and i don't buy into the idea that for something to be of God it has to be the most outlandish thing you have ever seen or heard and comes with no explanation.

They make shit up, and i trip out because my Mother was never flakey like that until she married that loser.
I try my best to stay away from there as much as possible cause i don't need her filling my kids head with that stuff.
She gets her teaching at school and church.

ELVIS
02-17-2005, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Do I have to post another picture of McViegh? I've never heard you condemn him as a Christian 'Militant' or a baby killer. Should I think all Christians are fanatical hypocrites as the result of his bombing and lump you into one of them.

McViegh was not a Christian, weather he said so or not...

He also had Islamic connections...

He was a terrorist, now he's dead...

Angel
02-17-2005, 06:46 PM
Elvis, the next time I run into the muslim gentleman who explained all that to me, I'll be sure to tell him that you say he's wrong.

And please tell that to all the other muslims who have it wrong as well.

Jerry Falwell
02-17-2005, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by Angel
Elvis, the next time I run into the muslim gentleman who explained all that to me, I'll be sure to tell him that you say he's wrong.

And please tell that to all the other muslims who have it wrong as well.

I will add that muslims are taught by their religion to kill all "Saturday" people (Jews) and then the "Sunday" people (Christians). If they can't overcome these people by force, then they are instructed to befriend them and get them when they least expect it. This being said, don't you think that your muslim "friend" might just be telling you what you want to hear in order to relieve your fears.
Believe it or not, I have a Koran that my mother brought back w/ her from when she lived in the Middle East. I have read it.

Check this out and tell me what you think.

courtesy of CBN Newswatch.com
Walid Shoebat was once a Palestinian Muslim terrorist, but his spiritual journey led him to become a Christian and a supporter of Israel. Shoebat grew up near Bethlehem, and was recruited by Yassar Arafat's faction. He once was given a bomb on Jerusalem's Temple Mount, to explode in a Bethlehem bank. Shoebat said, that for Palestinian Muslims like himself, the hatred of Jews starts from birth, and he said it has a Nazi parallel that cannot be imagined by people living in free societies. Pat Robertson recently spoke with Shoebat to discuss his incredible testimony.
ROBERTSON: What's the end game? If the Islamic people had their way, what would they want?

SHOEBAT: They want the Saturday people first and the Sunday people next. And that's what they preach in all demonstrations.

ROBERTSON: Saturday - the Saturday is the Jews, Sunday is the Christians.

SHOEBAT: That's right. And that's what . . . .

ROBERTSON: They want them all?

SHOEBAT: They want them all.

ROBERTSON: All killed?

SHOEBAT: All killed. That's why you have to understand their eschatology. It states the day of judgment shall not come to pass until the tribes of Islam defeat the tribes of Israel, in Jerusalem and the surrounding nations. And every tree will cry out, every stone will cry out, "There is a Jew hiding behind me. Come oh Muslim, come oh slave of Allah, come and kill him." So it's basically there is no more taxation of Christians and Jews. This is eschatology. When the Jews come back to that land, it is time to annihilate the Jews and declare Islam. And as a matter of fact, the Jesus that Christians believe in is the anti-Christ of the Muslim. And what the Muslims believe Jesus is, is the anti-Christ of what the Christians believe. And this is in the Islam of the Hadith.

By the way, I know that a lot of people think that Robertson is nuts... however in this interview, he is only asking questions.
link here (http://www.tampabayprimer.org/index.cfm?action=articles&drill=viewArt&art=1180)

ELVIS
02-17-2005, 07:32 PM
Thank you Jerry...

Did I say anything that does not line up with your understanding of Islam ??

ELVIS
02-17-2005, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by Angel
Elvis, the next time I run into the muslim gentleman who explained all that to me, I'll be sure to tell him that you say he's wrong.

Please do...

I know I'm right, and he knows it too...





And please tell that to all the other muslims who have it wrong as well.

Trust me, I intend to...

Jerry Falwell
02-17-2005, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
Thank you Jerry...

Did I say anything that does not line up with your understanding of Islam ??

Not that I have read so far. :D

ELVIS
02-17-2005, 07:38 PM
:elvis:

FORD
02-17-2005, 08:51 PM
The Koran doesn't seem to agree with Pat Robertson and his actor who portaryed the "converted Muslim" on the 700 Club.

In Sura 5:50-51 (46-47) Allah says, "And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was revealed before him and We bestowed on him the Gospel wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah -- a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off evil. Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed therein. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed, such are evil-livers."

In Sura 4:162 (164) Mohammed wrote that "Allah spake directly unto Moses." Moses wrote the first five books of the Bible.

In Sura 3:40(45) it is written, "O Mary! Lo! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a word form Him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, illustrious in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (unto Allah)."

Jesus says in the Koran to "Keep your duty to Allah, and obey me, for Allah is my Lord and your Lord." (Surah 3:50-51 (44)).

In Surah 19:31(30), Jesus says, "I am the slave of Allah! He hath given me the Scripture and hath appointed me a prophet."

So, if Moses and Jesus were revered by Muslims, how is it logical that they would hate Jews and Christians?

The first person I ever discussed Islam with, probably damn near 20 years ago, said that Muslims respected Jews and Christians as "people of the Book" as they themselves are. For all three traditions are rooted in Abraham through his sons Isaac and Ishmael..

The current chaos in the Middle East is kept alive because it suits the purposes of the corporations who are expoliting the regions natural resources. That's spelled O-I-L, in case you had to guess.

And just as Robertson and Falwell are agents of the right wing in this country, so are the Wahabbist Mullahs and the Likud sympathizing rabbis, each using hatred to pervert the religion they supposedly represent.

Nickdfresh
02-17-2005, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
McViegh was not a Christian, weather he said so or not...

He also had Islamic connections...

He was a terrorist, now he's dead...

Oh, that one you qualify. Osama's a good Muslim, but McViegh was NOT a Christian. Timmy would have told he was if you'd of asked him.

And those two phonies Jerry- Fucking-Falwell and Pat Robertson can both get cancer and fucking die the disloyal traitor cunts!

They said we deserved to be punished on 9/11 for being immoral. seems the fools you fawn over have much in common with Osama!

Religious fanatics are religious fanatics. They can use their moral vanities to justify anything can't they? After all, it''s God's will right?
http://www.chickenhawkcards.com/3-HEARTS.jpg

ELVIS
02-17-2005, 10:19 PM
Where did I say Osama was a good Muslim ???

Actually, and you're going to scourn me for this, I'm not sure there is such a thing...

LoungeMachine
02-17-2005, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
Actually, and you're going to scourn me for this, I'm not sure there is such a thing...

Damn right we are:mad:

What a pathetic statement.

I'd love for you to tell Jesus there are no "good muslims"

Isn't denegrating an entire religion based on their beliefs exactly what islamic extrmemists do????

you're no better, I guess

Cathedral
02-17-2005, 10:32 PM
There are good muslims and i know at least one personally out of two.
the other, well he has gone through some changes since the Iraq war began.

LoungeMachine
02-17-2005, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by Cathedral
There are good muslims and i know at least one personally out of two.
the other, well he has gone through some changes since the Iraq war began.

Because you probably judge a man by the content of his heart, and his character, NOT where, when, or to whom he prays.....

You're a good man Cath.

ELVIS
02-17-2005, 11:24 PM
I only said that to piss you off...

But...

Being a nurse, I have several muslim friends...

I also know some that have converted to Christianity...

I believe Islam to be inherently evil and a source of repression...

A "good" muslim is easily converted to the truth of Christianity and Jesus...;)

LoungeMachine
02-17-2005, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
I only said that to piss you off...

SORRY, BUT I CALL BS ON THAT. WHY BACK PEDDLE NOW?

But...

Being a nurse, I have several muslim friends...

SORRY, I DONT SEE THE CONNECTION NURSE/MUSLIM FRIENDS

I also know some that have converted to Christianity...

I believe Islam to be inherently evil and a source of repression...

AS THEY DO YOU

A "good" muslim is easily converted to the truth of Christianity and Jesus...;)

WELL THAT SURE SEEMS TO CONTRADICT YOUR OPENING STATEMENT

:rolleyes:

ELVIS
02-17-2005, 11:59 PM
Well, being a nurse in the capacity that I am, I spend time with more people than you can you can possibly imagine...

There are alot of nurses from Iran, Iraq, India, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, Syria, etc...

get a clue...

LoungeMachine
02-18-2005, 12:02 AM
Originally posted by ELVIS


There are alot of nurses from Iran, Iraq, India, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, Syria, etc...

get a clue...

And no matter how many lives THEY save, no matter how many poor THEY serve, no matter how just a life THEY live......

according to YOU they're evil and will go to hell. Simply because they dont believe exactly as you do

You get a clue, you condescending prick:rolleyes:

ELVIS
02-18-2005, 12:11 AM
The Bible warns about people like you...

Your whole post is created in your mind...

Big deal, say what you want...

I know what I am talking about, and I can back it up...

You seem to base your entire existance on your feelings...

Good luck explaining that to your creator...

By that, I mean God, meaning Jesus, meaning the Holy Spirit...


I mean, the TRUTH!

LoungeMachine
02-18-2005, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by ELVIS
The Bible warns about people like you...

Your whole post is created in your mind...



It also warns about people like YOU:D

Created in my mind?

Good thing we can pull it up and look at it in here:rolleyes:

ELVIS
02-18-2005, 12:20 AM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Good thing we can pull it up and look at it in here:rolleyes:

Hey, I'm all about learning and discussing...

I believe the Bible as truth, but...

I never take what I say or post or think as Gospel or truth...

I am willing to listen and learn from everyone and anything...

God Bless...


:elvis:

LoungeMachine
02-18-2005, 12:22 AM
Originally posted by ELVIS
Hey, I'm all about learning and discussing...

I believe the Bible as truth, but...

I never take what I say or post or think as Gospel or truth...

I am willing to listen and learn from everyone and anything...

God Bless...


:elvis:

Sure, take the high road:D

ELVIS
02-18-2005, 12:27 AM
I try...;)


:elvis:

LoungeMachine
02-18-2005, 12:29 AM
Originally posted by ELVIS
I try...;)


:elvis:

So do others........

of every faith

;)

ELVIS
02-18-2005, 12:37 AM
Yes, I know...

kentuckyklira
02-18-2005, 04:37 AM
Originally posted by ELVIS
Where did I say Osama was a good Muslim ???

Actually, and you're going to scourn me for this, I'm not sure there is such a thing... Anyone who leads his life according to 1500-5000 year old books and beliefs is an idiot in my book!

Christians, Jews and Muslims alike.

That said, I still chuckle when I think of the incident where I pissed on a guyīs Bible because he wouldnīt piss off even though I told him I wasnīt interested in his Jesus crap!:D :D

BigBadBrian
02-18-2005, 07:00 AM
Originally posted by kentuckyklira
Anyone who leads his life according to 1500-5000 year old books and beliefs is an idiot in my book!

Christians, Jews and Muslims alike.

That said, I still chuckle when I think of the incident where I pissed on a guyīs Bible because he wouldnīt piss off even though I told him I wasnīt interested in his Jesus crap!:D :D

I doubt that. You're just an Internet Tough Guy. :gulp:

kentuckyklira
02-18-2005, 07:22 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
I doubt that. You're just an Internet Tough Guy. :gulp: This is the internet, youīre free to believe and/or doubt whatever you want to!

ODShowtime
02-18-2005, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by Little_Skittles
yay what fun.....i'm going to die before i turn 21 and get to expierance all the "good" stuff.

that's why you shouldn't wait ;)

Jerry Falwell
02-18-2005, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Oh, that one you qualify. Osama's a good Muslim, but McViegh was NOT a Christian. Timmy would have told he was if you'd of asked him.

And those two phonies Jerry- Fucking-Falwell and Pat Robertson can both get cancer and fucking die the disloyal traitor cunts!

They said we deserved to be punished on 9/11 for being immoral. seems the fools you fawn over have much in common with Osama!

Religious fanatics are religious fanatics. They can use their moral vanities to justify anything can't they? After all, it''s God's will right?
http://www.chickenhawkcards.com/3-HEARTS.jpg


Funny thing is... within the next couple of decades, people that share the same views as yourself will look back and think that he was a genious.
I'm not nearly as fanatic as the real Jerry, but I can't say that I don't at least partially if not nearly 100% agree with his point of view as shown above.

Jerry Falwell
02-18-2005, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by FORD
The Koran doesn't seem to agree with Pat Robertson and his actor who portaryed the "converted Muslim" on the 700 Club.

In Sura 5:50-51 (46-47) Allah says, "And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was revealed before him and We bestowed on him the Gospel wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah -- a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off evil. Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed therein. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed, such are evil-livers."

In Sura 4:162 (164) Mohammed wrote that "Allah spake directly unto Moses." Moses wrote the first five books of the Bible.

In Sura 3:40(45) it is written, "O Mary! Lo! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a word form Him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, illustrious in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (unto Allah)."

Jesus says in the Koran to "Keep your duty to Allah, and obey me, for Allah is my Lord and your Lord." (Surah 3:50-51 (44)).

In Surah 19:31(30), Jesus says, "I am the slave of Allah! He hath given me the Scripture and hath appointed me a prophet."

So, if Moses and Jesus were revered by Muslims, how is it logical that they would hate Jews and Christians?

The first person I ever discussed Islam with, probably damn near 20 years ago, said that Muslims respected Jews and Christians as "people of the Book" as they themselves are. For all three traditions are rooted in Abraham through his sons Isaac and Ishmael..


Generally speaking, I think Islam is not a peaceful religion, it's my point of view, because there are peaceful verses in the Koran, and there are peaceful hadiths [oral Moslem traditional legends], but the verse of the sword has made null and void all the peaceful verses, according to most of the Islamic jurisprudence.
That's why you have to understand their eschatology. It states the day of judgment shall not come to pass until the tribes of Islam defeat the tribes of Israel, in Jerusalem and the surrounding nations. And every tree will cry out, every stone will cry out, "There is a Jew hiding behind me. Come oh Muslim, come oh slave of Allah, come and kill him." So it's basically there is no more taxation of Christians and Jews. This is eschatology. When the Jews come back to that land, it is time to annihilate the Jews and declare Islam. And as a matter of fact, the Jesus that Christians believe in is the anti-Christ of the Muslim. And what the Muslims believe Jesus is, is the anti-Christ of what the Christians believe. And this is in the Islam of the Hadith. So Mr. Ford, maybe the Islam that you know through your friends is not the real Islam?

Jerry Falwell
02-18-2005, 02:44 PM
Ford, how would your friend or yourself defend this passage?


Chapter 5: The Dinner Table

5.41: O Apostle! let not those grieve you who strive together in hastening to unbelief from among those who say with their mouths: We believe, and their hearts do not believe, and from among those who are Jews; they are listeners for the sake of a lie, listeners for another people who have not come to you; they alter the words from their places, saying: If you are given this, take it, and if you are not given this, be cautious; and as for him whose temptation Allah desires, you cannot control anything for him with Allah. Those are they for whom Allah does not desire that He should purify their hearts; they shall have disgrace in this world, and they shall have a grievous chastisement in the hereafter.

5.51: O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

Nickdfresh
02-18-2005, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by Jerry Falwell
Funny thing is... within the next couple of decades, people that share the same views as yourself will look back and think that he was a genious.
I'm not nearly as fanatic as the real Jerry, but I can't say that I don't at least partially if not nearly 100% agree with his point of view as shown above.

Muhuhawhawhawhawhawhawhawhaw...

Right after I say Osama and Mullah Omar are "genius'" Actually they are evil genius' whereas Falwell is just your average demagogue.

I choose to let God, assuming there is one, punish the wicked. Not terrorists or Christian fundamentalists who have the same mindset choose to speak for him/her.

It's good to know you approve of Falwell's cheerleading for al-Qaida! Funny, where's the outrage on that?

So it's okay for Falwell to say that 9/11 was okay 'cause it killed a bunch of (to paraphrase) immoral faggots...Well, actually I think most of the people killed were upstanding citizens just making a living. So why did God punish them through a terrorist? If God is this actively involved in the world, why does he/she not have abortion clinics spontaneously combust?

**BUT**

Chief Crazy Horse's comparison of the victims to Adolph Eichmann was somehow inappropriate and he should be fired??*?*?


Ahhhhh...the stench of hypocrisy!

Cathedral
02-18-2005, 05:11 PM
I find that the largest majority of Evangelical "BIG MONEY" churches are in contempt of the word of God.

Humble yourselves and find a humble church where the teaching is pure and as accurate as can possibly be.

If you follow a false prophet he will lead you straight to hell, it even says that much in the scripture.

Jerry Falwell
02-19-2005, 12:56 AM
Originally posted by Cathedral
I find that the largest majority of Evangelical "BIG MONEY" churches are in contempt of the word of God.

Humble yourselves and find a humble church where the teaching is pure and as accurate as can possibly be.

If you follow a false prophet he will lead you straight to hell, it even says that much in the scripture.


I couldn't agree w/ you more! I just picked my screen name to get a reaction from the far left. Anyway, my wife and I attend a church just like what you have defined... check it out at lifechurch.tv
:D

ELVIS
02-19-2005, 01:07 AM
The church I belong to is victorylifeonline.org...

The website is lacking, but I believe I will be our future webmaster...;)

Nickdfresh
02-19-2005, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by Jerry Falwell
I couldn't agree w/ you more! I just picked my screen name to get a reaction from the far left. Anyway, my wife and I attend a church just like what you have defined... check it out at lifechurch.tv
:D

Feel free not to address any of my moderate...er...far left points and to drink your Falwell kool-aid.;) :D

Seshmeister
02-20-2005, 11:26 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
I don't think you'll see Christians marching in en masse in entire countries calling for the destruction of entire nations...well maybe Scotland. :gulp:



The only place I see that is the USA and Iraq.

ELVIS
02-20-2005, 11:35 PM
Yeah, right...:rolleyes: