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BigBadBrian
03-04-2005, 01:50 PM
European justice rules top U.S. Court
Debra Saunders


March 4, 2005


So now the U.S. Supreme Court is writing decisions based on what Our Betters in Europe think is best. That's what the Big Bench did on Tuesday when it issued a 5-4 decision, written by Justice Anthony Kennedy, overturning the death penalty for crimes committed by minors.

Let me stipulate. The outcome -- an end to executions of those who committed crimes as minors -- isn't what bothers me here. There is an argument to be made that, as per the Eighth Amendment, it is "cruel and unusual" to execute those convicted of crimes committed when they were minors. Minors, as Kennedy put it, are "categorically less culpable than the average criminal."

But the court didn't limit its guidance to the U.S. Constitution. Kennedy wrote that the court can and should consider "the overwhelming weight of international opinion against the juvenile death penalty," including opposition among "leading members of the Western European community."

Be afraid, America. Be very afraid. European Union countries don't simply oppose capital punishment; they also oppose life without parole and mete out notoriously short sentences for heinous crimes. In recent years, a German court essentially sentenced a man who killed and ate another man -- the killer was so proud he videotaped everything -- to eight and a half years in prison. He is expected to walk free after five years.

The International Criminal Tribunal on Yugoslavia found a Bosnian Serb colonel guilty of aiding and abetting the genocide that resulted in thousands of deaths. His sentence: 18 years.

Don't blame European juries. Judges made the above rulings, on a continent where juries get little respect.

If you're wondering who died and made Justice Kennedy -- or Western Europe -- king, consider that Kennedy also referred to the U.N. Convention on the Rights of the Child that prohibited the execution of minors -- even though the United States failed to ratify that treaty. The definition of an activist judge could be a judge who calls on the government to adhere to a treaty it rejected.

Kennedy wasn't even on solid ground factually. "In sum," he wrote, "it is fair to say that the United States now stands alone in a world that has turned its face against the juvenile-death penalty."

"That's not quite true," said University of California at Berkeley professor Franklin E. Zimring, who was quoted extensively in The New York Times in support of Kennedy's continental leanings. Iranian law prohibits executions of minors but considers a 10-year-old girl to be an adult, Zimring noted. In 2004, The Christian Science Monitor reported that five countries -- United States, China, Pakistan, Iran and Democratic Republic of Congo -- executed minors in the previous five years.

Michael Rushford of the pro-death penalty Criminal Justice Legal Foundation admitted that the roster of countries that still have the death penalty for adults doesn't exactly "help the pro-death penalty cause," as many of those countries don't cherish the notion of freedom. On the other hand, America does not own those countries' abuses. In the meantime, Rushford noted, "The Supreme Court has now said we're all going to wear the same socks and we're going to decide what a jury can decide."

That is the European Union model. Same socks. And jurors aren't welcome.

Kennedy also cited a "national consensus" in America against the juvenile-death penalty as a reason to overturn it. I must ask: Since when has the court issued rulings based on what average folk think?

Besides, if the Supreme Court did care what people thought, it wouldn't be looking to Europe to decipher the U.S. Constitution.

Zimring told me that the issue here isn't the 72 death-row inmates who committed capital murder as minors. Conservatives bristle at the mention of Europe, he explained, because, "As soon as you internationalize the discourse of capital punishment, then Arkansas no longer has a point."

That's right. But what else will Americans have to give up? Zimring noted that the United Nations has forced countries to end the juvenile-death penalty and the European Union forced Turkey to end capital punishment. He noted that the other countries complied for economic, not moral reasons.

Now, when countries have buckled to this pressure for the money, an America court interprets their surrender as an international trend against the death penalty. That is the EU way. Force dissenters to go along. Then boast that you have a consensus.

Individual rights? They're not high on the EU list. Then again, neither is punishment.

kentuckyklira
03-04-2005, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
In recent years, a German court essentially sentenced a man who killed and ate another man -- the killer was so proud he videotaped everything -- to eight and a half years in prison. He is expected to walk free after five years. You´re so full of shit, it stinks till here!

The little fact that the victim actually wanted to be killed and eaten was cautiously omitted, I notice!

Angel
03-04-2005, 06:23 PM
Originally posted by kentuckyklira
You´re so full of shit, it stinks till here!

The little fact that the victim actually wanted to be killed and eaten was cautiously omitted, I notice!

On B's side, K, what do you expect? They're so used to the 1/2 truth news they get down there, they're starting to think that way!

The WELL known fact is that the guy advertised for someone willing to allow him to kill them, and eat them. The dead guy DID have it done of his own will.

Heck of a good stab at spin-doctoring there though B3, I'll give ya that much!

Big Train
03-04-2005, 06:28 PM
So a fucking complete sick fucking act like that and the guy should be allowed to walk free? Of what use to society is a piece of shit like that?

Who is spinning here for real Angel?

Canada and Germany can have physcos like that running around in their country, just keep them the fuck outa here.

Angel
03-04-2005, 06:30 PM
Where did I say he should walk free?

There were extenuating circumstances in that case which B3 failed to mention. :D

Big Train
03-04-2005, 06:34 PM
Just wanted to make sure darling...wouldnt want another "1/2 truth" that we are so used to. Even with those circumstances BBB didn't mention, it still makes me wonder why anyone would take this German judge seriously..

BigBadBrian
03-06-2005, 08:11 AM
Originally posted by Angel
On B's side, K, what do you expect? They're so used to the 1/2 truth news they get down there, they're starting to think that way!

The WELL known fact is that the guy advertised for someone willing to allow him to kill them, and eat them. The dead guy DID have it done of his own will.

Heck of a good stab at spin-doctoring there though B3, I'll give ya that much!

This is just sheer stupidity here, Angel. C'mon now. The next thing you'll tell me is that a 12 year old girl is willing to have gang-bang sex with a group of 40 year old men and its OK because she agreed to it. That's OK because its consensual? Same logic. Like Big Train said, I want nothing to do with a warped society that condones something like that.

Angel
03-14-2005, 06:42 PM
All I'm saying is that extenuating circumstances warrant a lesser sentence. :D

As for the 12 year old, NO, that's child molestation plain and simple, however, unfortunately, a 14 year old it would be considered consensual.

Mr Grimsdale
03-16-2005, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
I want nothing to do with a warped society that condones something like that.

Oh come on, next you'll be saying that Germany has spawned political nutcases and mass murderers.

Angel
03-16-2005, 06:34 PM
... and sausages, or parsnips. ;)

Warham
03-16-2005, 07:08 PM
Don't expect any moral guidance from canucks.

Dr. Love
03-16-2005, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by kentuckyklira
You´re so full of shit, it stinks till here!

The little fact that the victim actually wanted to be killed and eaten was cautiously omitted, I notice!


So what? It's still murder.

Mr Grimsdale
03-17-2005, 02:48 AM
i wonder what vegetables he prepared

Angel
03-18-2005, 06:24 PM
toesnips? ;)