Anti-Muslim bias 'spreads' in EU

[BigBadBrian]

Anti-Muslim bias 'spreads' in EU
BBC

Attitudes towards Muslims 'have worsened' since 11 September
Muslims in Europe have faced increased discrimination since the 11 September attacks, according to a new report.
The study by the International Helsinki Federation for Human Rights (IHF) covers 11 EU members states.

It looks at "widespread" negative attitudes towards Muslims, including unbalanced media reporting which depict Muslims as "an enemy within".

The report, "Intolerance and Discrimination against Muslims in the EU", is based on second-hand accounts.

They include statements by Muslim and anti-racist groups, human rights organisations material, media reports and official documents.

Clothing bans

In France, the debate over the French law forbidding religious clothing in schools had encouraged discrimination against Muslim women who wear headscarves, the report says.

"We are concerned that these developments threaten to undermine positive efforts at integration and further increase the vulnerability of Muslims to human rights violations and marginalisation"

Aaron Rhodes
IHF executive director

As a result of the law, which was designed to uphold France's tradition of separating state and religion, some women have been unable to marry, vote or take exams in a headscarf, it stated.

In the UK, the report says the media have created the impression that justice officials are successfully prosecuting Muslim terrorists, although only a few people have been convicted and the vast majority of those who are arrested on allegations of terrorism are released without charge.

In Germany meanwhile, more than 80% of those surveyed last year associated the world "Islam" with "terrorism" and "oppression of women" - although it was unclear to what extent this resulted in discriminatory behaviour.

It also says that Muslim schools in the Netherlands are widely believed to "undermine integration efforts" although it says such claims are "poorly supported by facts".

A number of European countries have been engaged in a debate about whether long standing policies of multi-culturalism best serve the minorities involved.

Assimilation has been put forward as a means of stopping minorities - and particularly Muslims - from occupying a parallel society that could exclude them from mainstream benefits.

Multi-culturalism

The IHF warns that "growing distrust and hostility" experienced by Muslims and a possible erosion of their confidence in the rule of law could also fuel support for extremist organisations.

The report makes a number of recommendations, including strengthening the law on racial discrimination and promoting systematic efforts to monitor discrimination.

It also advocates actively promoting tolerance among EU citizens by encouraging debate in the media over how to cover minorities and avoid "perpetuating prejudice", and also recommends the setting up of elected Muslim representative bodies.

The IHF has a consultative status with the UN and the Council of Europe.

link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4325225.stm)

[DrMaddVibe]

didn't France ban headresses?

so much for those tolerant ways.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
didn't France ban headresses?

so much for those tolerant ways.

They banned all sizable religious icons, including skullcaps and large crucifixes. To put it in perspective for you, rape gangs of Muslim extremists were abducting westernized Muslim women (identifiable by their lack of headscarves) and raping them as a form of punishment. By banning the headscarves, France was counteracting this criminal/terrorist trend.

If they were in the US, we could always have sent them to our "democratic" Middle-Eastern ally Egypt to be tortured for us; or we could have branded them 'terrorists' and held them without charge for years on end.

[Jano]

Sorry BBB you're vrong about the french,like Nickfresh say we're not again the muslim but just again any can of religious icons.Long time ago everybody weared the same clothes at school like that we could not discern the rich 's kid from the poor ,it was the way to get every kids a fair education.Now tell me why only the muslims try to go the school with their religious scarf on when all the other kids don't (like the jews ,the catholic ....)?

[Jano]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
didn't France ban headresses?

so much for those tolerant ways.

Think a little be before speaking!!
You're making a fool of yourself,you said some stupid thing really!!
(by the way the eiffel tower is an oil rig but don't tell everybody!!)

[DrMaddVibe]

Oh...ok...

Tehran worshipers cry 'Death to France!' over head scarves
Agence France-Presse Agence France-Presse
Saturday, January 3, 2004
TEHRAN Thousands of Muslim worshipers shouted "Death to France!" during weekly prayers here Friday in response to a sermon denouncing a proposal to prohibit Muslim schoolgirls in France from wearing head scarves.

Ayatollah Ahmad Janati called on Islamic countries to "threaten France with canceling contracts and to reconsider their relations with France" over the issue.

Last month, a committee of French experts recommended banning "conspicuous" religious insignia from state schools, which are secular. This would include the hijab, or head scarf, skullcaps and large crucifixes.

In a speech later, President Jacques Chirac of France came out in favor of the ban, which he wants written into law by the start of the next school year.

But Janati assured worshipers that all that was necessary was "a roar from Muslims, and the French would back off." He called on the French authorities to "let Muslim women express their freedom and carry out their religious obligations."

His comments were welcomed by shouts of "Death to France!"

Since Chirac spoke in favor of the ban on Dec. 17, Arab and Muslim countries have been voicing outrage, even if a few intellectuals dispute claims that Muslim women are bound by duty to wear the head scarf.

Numerous Iranian officials, including President Mohammad Khatami and nearly 200 members of Parliament, have already called on the French authorities to reject the ban.

Khatami said last week that the "hijab is a religious necessity and its restriction is a sign of a kind of extreme nationalistic tendency."

On Monday, 150 students, including women in the head-to-foot chador, protested in front of the French Embassy in Tehran shouting "Death to France!" and "Death to Chirac the Zionist!"

Viva le douché Jano!

[DrMaddVibe]

France: Chirac bans headscarves
The recent unveiling of plans by the French Government to ban the wearing of religious symbols in public schools (but not private schools) has created a massive rift in French society and has provoked protests in France and across the world. Whilst the Government has claimed that the ban is not directed against any one religious group, for many, it is seen as a direct attack on the five million Muslims living in France.

By Matt Waine

In Muslim culture it is customary for women to wear the hijab or headscarf. Some in the debate currently raging have used the treatment of women under Islamic law as a justification for their support for the ban. It is of course very true that Muslim women are treated like second class citizens by many of their male counterparts under certain trends of Islamic law. But the same could be said for women living in western society. Maybe women are not forced to wear the burqua or are free to walk down the street without a man, but women in western society come under enormous pressure to 'conform', to look a certain way, to wear certain clothes etc. In effect, the right wing Government has cloaked their real agenda with chivalrous rhetoric.

The Government has completely ignored the fact that many Muslim women choose to wear the hijab and see it as an important part of their tradition and national identity. They also see it as a certain protection against sexist ideology that prevails in western society. The ban has also encouraged groups on the far right, like Le Pen's Front Nationale, to whip up the tension, sow division and gain support for their far right and deeply racist ideas.

Socialists should oppose this attack on the Muslim community, but without giving an ounce of support to the reactionary elements within Islam.

We advocate a completely secular society, but we do not support capitalist politicians and parties attacking the rights of ethnic and religious minorities. It is wrong to think the banning of the hijab will in some way "liberate" Muslim women.

We are against either the state or religious leaders ordering any woman to wear a headscarf, just as much as we oppose attempts to ban women wearing one.


Just thinking, fucko!

[Jano]

You don't even know what's going on around here,you're funny!The subject is so much deeper than that.And you really think so that muslim women like to wear that scarf?
Think twice come here and talk to them like i do and most of them hate their scarfs but they don't have a choice,their extremist husband or father make them wear it.And by the way you can wear and headresses in France but not to school,deal with it.By the way i don't see any muslims protested for the money they get from the goverment to go the school!

[Dr. Love]

Are you taking a piss on that PC?

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe


By Matt Waine

In Muslim culture it is customary for women to wear the hijab or headscarf....

Just thinking, fucko!

Is there anything funnier than Vibe posting an article by an actual card-carrying Irish Socialist to fit his limited political agenda? Does your back get sore from all the flip-flops?

[DrMaddVibe]

Yeah, there is!

The notion that your, FoLIARrd, or any other lib blowhard that posts here opinion really matter when it comes to developing any type of a cohesive plan on dealing with terrorism, the war on terror and for that matter any topic you assclowns go on benders about.

You'll make up shit, deny any wrong and constantly talk as if you had any type of authority.

THAT'S funny!

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
Yeah, there is!

The notion that your, FoLIARrd, or any other lib blowhard that posts here opinion really matter when it comes to developing any type of a cohesive plan on dealing with terrorism, the war on terror and for that matter any topic you assclowns go on benders about.

You'll make up shit, deny any wrong and constantly talk as if you had any type of authority.

THAT'S funny!

BTW, Iraq still had nothing to do with 9/11.

Talking to ME about dealing with cohesive plans? Get a clue dude.

[diamondD]

Who on here said that Iraq and 9/11 are connected? I keep hearing this as a defense, but I can't say that I've actually read anyone stating that.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by diamondD
Who on here said that Iraq and 9/11 are connected? I keep hearing this as a defense, but I can't say that I've actually read anyone stating that.

Are you fucking kidding me????

What hole were you living in during the build up to the Bush Regime Invasion and Occupation?????????


unbelievable.:rolleyes:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by diamondD
Who on here said that Iraq and 9/11 are connected? I keep hearing this as a defense, but I can't say that I've actually read anyone stating that.
.

Cheney Lectures Russert on Iraq-9/11 Link
NewsMax.com ^ | 9/15/03 | Carl Limbacher and NewsMax.com Staff


Posted on 09/15/2003 6:42:16 AM PDT by kattracks



After telling a national radio audience last week that there was no connection between the World Trade Center attacks and Saddam Hussein, "Meet the Press" host Tim Russert got an earful on Sunday from Vice President Dick Cheney, who outlined a mountain of evidence tying Iraq to the 9/11 catastrophe.

Recalling that he had told Russert two years ago that he knew of no Iraqi link to the attack, Cheney said Sunday, "Subsequent to that, we've learned a couple of things."

The Vice President contended that more recent evidence indicates "that there was a relationship between Iraq and al-Qaeda that stretched back through most of the decade of the '90s, that it involved training, for example."

Though he did not specifically mention the South Baghdad terrorist training camp Salman Pak, where radical Islamists rehearsed 9/11-style hijackings on a Soviet-era Tupelov 154 airliner, Cheney noted that "al-Qaeda sent personnel to Baghdad to get trained on the systems that are involved."

Cheney also cited reports of a meeting between lead 9/11 hijacker Mohamed Atta and an Iraqi in intelligence agent in Prague just months before the attacks, saying that U.S. intelligence has not yet been able confirm or discredit the information.

In perhaps his most startling remarks, the vice president became the first White House official to argue that there was a link between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda's attempt to destroy the World Trade Center in 1993, telling Russert:

"We know, for example, in connection with the original World Trade Center bombing in '93 that one of the bombers was Iraqi, returned to Iraq after the attack of '93. And we've learned subsequent to that, since we went into Baghdad and got into the intelligence files, that this individual probably also received financing from the Iraqi government as well as safe haven."

The vice president might have also mentioned that Ramzi Yousef, who masterminded the 1993 attack and whose laptop computer contained plans to crash U.S. airliners into the World Trade Center and Pentagon, entered the U.S. with an Iraqi passport.

After his capture in 1995, the FBI flew Yousef over the World Trade Center and reminded him that his plan to destroy the Twin Towers had not succeeded. His reported response - "Not yet."

Last Wednesday Russert insisted to radio host Don Imus, "No one will say there was a direct involvement of Saddam Hussein in Sept. 11. ... There's no direct link that can be substantiated." The full exchange between Russert and Vice President Cheney on the evidence tying Iraq to 9/11 went like this:

RUSSERT: The Washington Post asked the American people about Saddam Hussein, and this is what they said: 69 percent said he was involved in the September 11 attacks. Are you surprised by that?

CHENEY: No. I think it's not surprising that people make that connection.

RUSSERT: But is there a connection?

CHENEY: We don't know. You and I talked about this two years ago. I can remember you asking me this question just a few days after the original attack. At the time I said no, we didn't have any evidence of that. Subsequent to that, we've learned a couple of things. We learned more and more that there was a relationship between Iraq and al-Qaeda that stretched back through most of the decade of the '90s, that it involved training, for example, on BW and CW, that al-Qaeda sent personnel to Baghdad to get trained on the systems that are involved. The Iraqis providing bomb-making expertise and advice to the al-Qaeda organization.

We know, for example, in connection with the original World Trade Center bombing in '93 that one of the bombers was Iraqi, returned to Iraq after the attack of '93. And we've learned subsequent to that, since we went into Baghdad and got into the intelligence files, that this individual probably also received financing from the Iraqi government as well as safe haven.

Now, is there a connection between the Iraqi government and the original World Trade Center bombing in '93? We know, as I say, that one of the perpetrators of that act did, in fact, receive support from the Iraqi government after the fact. With respect to 9/11, of course, we've had the story that's been public out there. The Czechs alleged that Mohamed Atta, the lead attacker, met in Prague with a senior Iraqi intelligence official five months before the attack, but we've never been able to develop anymore of that yet either in terms of confirming it or discrediting it. We just don't know. [End of Excerpt]

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Jano
Sorry BBB you're vrong about the french,like Nickfresh say we're not again the muslim but just again any can of religious icons.Long time ago everybody weared the same clothes at school like that we could not discern the rich 's kid from the poor ,it was the way to get every kids a fair education.Now tell me why only the muslims try to go the school with their religious scarf on when all the other kids don't (like the jews ,the catholic ....)?

Uh Jano...I'm not wrong. As you can see, this a BBC report. These are their words, not mine.

I've also read words from the Muslim fanatics including al-Qaeda vowing retribution on France for the policies they've imposed. We'll see.

:gun:

[diamondD]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Are you fucking kidding me????

What hole were you living in during the build up to the Bush Regime Invasion and Occupation?????????


unbelievable.:rolleyes:


LM, as usual, you failed to understand my question before over reacting.

One more time...


Who on this board (which means here) has tied 9/11 to Iraq. That's my question. I know people said it in the media. Who on here says they believe it too?

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by diamondD
LM, as usual, you failed to understand my question before over reacting.

One more time...


Who on this board (which means here) has tied 9/11 to Iraq. That's my question. I know people said it in the media. Who on here says they believe it too?

I'd say most of the Republican posters about a year ago. Interviews and pictures show the US troops certainly did.

Look at all the bombs and missiles that were daubed with 'This is for 9-11" or "Remember the WTC" when the war started.

During the election I constantly heard voters in the media talking about how Iraq had to be punished for 9-11

I bet a majority of supporters still think Iraq is about 9-11.

Cheers!

:gulp:

[diamondD]

Ok, I get both of your points and am not denying there are people who believe that. I don't. And if it was most of the Republican posters, why isn't anyone able to name one?

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by diamondD
LM, as usual, you failed to understand my question before over reacting.

One more time...


Who on this board (which means here) has tied 9/11 to Iraq. That's my question. I know people said it in the media. Who on here says they believe it too?

Lucky Wilbury used too a lot. And when I hear Iraq as a battle in the War on Terror (Dr.MaddVibe) I get a little nauseated!

[Seshmeister]

John Ashcroft and BBB too.

Hell I have more important things to do that look out old posts where they cut and pasted endless reams of bullshit about how WMD's had been discovered in Iraq and how because some Al Queda guy had alledgedly met some guy who knew someone who knew Saddam meant that Iraq had funded 9-11.

Go look yourself it's all here somewhere.

Nickdfresh myself and others were getting told we were talking bullshit on a daily basis over that for disagreeing.

Cheers!

:gulp:

[Jano]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Uh Jano...I'm not wrong. As you can see, this a BBC report. These are their words, not mine.

I've also read words from the Muslim fanatics including al-Qaeda vowing retribution on France for the policies they've imposed. We'll see.

:gun:
BBB in France the schools are undenominational school ,i'm sure that you know it .so sorry nothing again the muslims again.

[DrMaddVibe]

The war on terror will have many fronts.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
The war on terror will have many fronts.

Like a shipping container with a WMD at one of our ports?

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
John Ashcroft and BBB too.

Hell I have more important things to do that look out old posts where they cut and pasted endless reams of bullshit about how WMD's had been discovered in Iraq and how because some Al Queda guy had alledgedly met some guy who knew someone who knew Saddam meant that Iraq had funded 9-11.

Go look yourself it's all here somewhere.

Nickdfresh myself and others were getting told we were talking bullshit on a daily basis over that for disagreeing.

Cheers!

:gulp:

"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is" - WJC

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to
develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them.
That is our bottom line."
President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We
want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass
destruction program."
President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

Just a little intro to my post just to toast your muffins. ;)

When one says Iraq is involved in terror activities, people automatically assume and point to al-Qaeda. That simply is not the case. There are dozens, if not hundreds, of terror organizations in existence. Iraq has harbored numberous of them, even during the reign of Saddam. Iraq even harbored various al-Qaeda cells during his reign. This is not to say he had anything to do with the 9/11 attacks or, indeed, whether these cells themselves had anything to do with the attacks.

People simply wish to lump all accusations into one simplistic category because they don't understand the situation. I am generaly not referring to the people on this board. Most people on this board of any political persuasion are usually a little brighter than that. This issue makes me wonder, however.

Saddam funded Palestinian terrorists. He also harbored various factions of Hamas, Ansar al-Islam, the Palestinian Liberation Front, the Abu Nidal Organization and the Arab Liberation Front.

So when you make the accusation that BBB claimed that Saddam was responsible for 9/11, the answer is no. I will however admit that
Saddam and Iraq had a pre-9/11 connection to al-Qaeda in other ways. To deny this is ludicrous.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
[i]". I will however admit that
Saddam and Iraq had a pre-9/11 connection to al-Qaeda in other ways. To deny this is ludicrous.

They also had "pre 9/11 " connections with getting WMDs.......

FROM THE US GOVERNMENT



So by your logic, WE supplied Sadaam and Iraq with the weapons for Al Qaeda

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
They also had "pre 9/11 " connections with getting WMDs.......

FROM THE US GOVERNMENT



So by your logic, WE supplied Sadaam and Iraq with the weapons for Al Qaeda

I think you need to do a little more research of who supplied Saddam his WMD capability. The results will probably surprise you. No, we're not innocent, but we're not the only dirty ones either.

:gulp:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
No, we're not innocent, but we're not the only dirty ones either.

:gulp:


Thank you for FINALLY admitting some US culpability / hypocrisy


I'm proud of you;)

[lucky wilbury]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Lucky Wilbury used too a lot. And when I hear Iraq as a battle in the War on Terror (Dr.MaddVibe) I get a little nauseated!

and where did i say iraq was involved with 9-11? iraq was involed with al qauda there is no doubt about that but where did i say iraq was involved with 9-11. find the post. don't say i said this or that find where i say iraq was involved with 9-11.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by lucky wilbury
and where did i say iraq was involved with 9-11? iraq was involed with al qauda there is no doubt about that but where did i say iraq was involved with 9-11. find the post. don't say i said this or that find where i say iraq was involved with 9-11.

Some automatically assume 9/11, Iraq, and Terrorism are all the same, lucky. When you say Iraq supported al-Qaeda before 9/11, which indeed they did, some automatically jump to the conclusion that you're saying Saddam planned the whole thing out. Amazing, huh?

Glad to hear from you again. :gulp:

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Some automatically assume 9/11, Iraq, and Terrorism are all the same, lucky. When you say Iraq supported al-Qaeda before 9/11, which indeed they did, some automatically jump to the conclusion that you're saying Saddam planned the whole thing out. Amazing, huh?

Glad to hear from you again. :gulp:

Let's invade the bastards anyways!

[lucky wilbury]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian

Glad to hear from you again. :gulp:

its good to be back :gulp:

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Let's invade the bastards anyways!


I'll admit it's not much of an excuse ( none actually) but I'm of the opinion we would have had to take Saddam down in the next decade if this fiasco didn't come along when it did.

Hell, I was pissed off when we got sent home early in '91 after GW1, but the UN mandate said we met our obligations. Bush Sr. was gullible enough to go along with it. Fuckin' UN.

:gun:

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
didn't France ban headresses?

so much for those tolerant ways. French law states that religion is your private affair and has no place in public intstitutions. And a good thing that is.

I don´t want other people´s superstitions and ignorance forced onto me!

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by kentuckyklira

I don´t want other people´s superstitions and ignorance forced onto me!

So how does a Muslim woman wearing her headress in her own way force her religion onto you? It doesn't.

[Seshmeister]

For a start how are you meant to check out her tits?


If they want to live in a muslim country there are plenty to choose from.

[Jesterstar]

Musilms are fags for real. They fuck men all the time. They beleive that a man is for pleasure and a woman is for breeding. Just like Sesh thinks. Oh yea I schooled you sesh over at rogans. fag.

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
So how does a Muslim woman wearing her headress in her own way force her religion onto you? It doesn't. It´s a public expression of religion in the wrong place and the wrong time!

If you want to work as a teacher in a public school in a secular society, leave your religion at home!

[Nitro Express]

The Muslims are breeding. Look at Iran. Demographic wise, it has one of the youngest populations in the world and an educated young population at that. Europe in contrast is aging and has had a low birthrate for years. Something is going to fill the void in places like Germany and France. Gee, I think that's going to be Muslims.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by kentuckyklira
It´s a public expression of religion in the wrong place and the wrong time!

If you want to work as a teacher in a public school in a secular society, leave your religion at home!

Who said anything about being a teacher? I'm talking about a Muslim woman wallking down the street, going in a store, or going in a market and shopping. Her headress or a Christian wearing a cross doesn't hurt anyone.

You Europeans make me laugh. You criticize the US about the supposed loss of freedoms after 9/11 and then you come up with this shit. You bastards need to take a good look at yourselves before you throw any stones our way.

:gulp:

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Nitro Express
The Muslims are breeding. Look at Iran. Demographic wise, it has one of the youngest populations in the world and an educated young population at that. Europe in contrast is aging and has had a low birthrate for years. Something is going to fill the void in places like Germany and France. Gee, I think that's going to be Muslims.

Indeed. Europe will be conquered by the Islamic horde piling into its borders as we speak and not a shot will be fired to stop them.