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Nickdfresh
03-08-2005, 08:05 PM
Terror Suspects Buying Firearms, Report Finds
By ERIC LICHTBLAU

Published: March 8, 2005

WASHINGTON, March 7 - Dozens of terror suspects on federal watch lists were allowed to buy firearms legally in the United States last year, according to a Congressional investigation that points up major vulnerabilities in federal gun laws.

People suspected of being members of a terrorist group are not automatically barred from legally buying a gun, and the investigation, conducted by the Government Accountability Office, indicated that people with clear links to terrorist groups had regularly taken advantage of this gap.

Since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, law enforcement officials and gun control groups have voiced increasing concern about the prospect of a terrorist walking into a gun shop, legally buying an assault rifle or other type of weapon and using it in an attack.

The G.A.O. study offers the first full-scale examination of the possible dangers posed by gaps in the law, Congressional officials said, and it concludes that the Federal Bureau of Investigation "could better manage" its gun-buying records in matching them against lists of suspected terrorists.

F.B.I. officials maintain that they are hamstrung by laws and policies restricting the use of gun-buying records because of concerns over the privacy rights of gun owners.

At least 44 times from February 2004 to June, people whom the F.B.I. regards as known or suspected members of terrorist groups sought permission to buy or carry a gun, the investigation found.[/img]

In all but nine cases, the F.B.I. or state authorities who handled the requests allowed the applications to proceed because a check of the would-be buyer found no automatic disqualification like being a felon, an illegal immigrant or someone deemed "mentally defective," the report found.

[b]In the four months after the formal study ended, the authorities received an additional 14 gun applications from terror suspects, and all but 2 of those were cleared to proceed, the investigation found. In all, officials approved 47 of 58 gun applications from terror suspects over a nine-month period last year, it found.

The gun buyers came up as positive matches on a classified internal F.B.I. watch list that includes thousands of terrorist suspects, many of whom are being monitored, trailed or sought for questioning as part of terrorism investigations into Islamic-based, militia-style and other groups, official said. G.A.O. investigators were not given access to the identities of the gun buyers because of those investigations.

The report is to be released on Tuesday, and an advance copy was provided to The New York Times.

Senator Frank R. Lautenberg, Democrat of New Jersey, who requested the study, plans to introduce legislation to address the problem in part by requiring federal officials to keep records of gun purchases by terror suspects for a minimum of 10 years. Such records must now be destroyed within 24 hours as a result of a change ordered by Congress last year. Mr. Lautenberg maintains that the new policy has hindered terrorism investigations by eliminating the paper trail on gun purchases.

"Destroying these records in 24 hours is senseless and will only help terrorists cover their tracks," Mr. Lautenberg said Monday. "It's an absurd policy."

He blamed what he called the Bush administration's "twisted allegiances" to the National Rifle Association for the situation.

The N.R.A. and gun rights supporters in Congress have fought - successfully, for the most part - to limit the use of the F.B.I.'s national gun-buying database as a tool for law enforcement investigators, saying the database would amount to an illegal registry of gun owners nationwide.

The legal debate over how gun records are used became particularly contentious months after the Sept. 11 attacks, when it was disclosed that the Justice Department and John Ashcroft, then the attorney general, had blocked the F.B.I. from using the gun-buying records to match against some 1,200 suspects who were detained as part of the Sept. 11 investigation. Mr. Ashcroft maintained that using the records in a criminal investigation would violate the federal law that created the system for instant background gun checks, but Justice Department lawyers who reviewed the issue said they saw no such prohibition.

In response to the report, Mr. Lautenberg also plans to ask Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales to assess whether people listed on the F.B.I.'s terror watch list should be automatically barred from buying a gun. Such a policy would require a change in federal law.

F.B.I. officials acknowledge shortcomings in the current approach to using gun-buying records in terror cases, but they say they are somewhat constrained by gun laws as established by Congress and interpreted by the Justice Department.

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"We're in a tough position," said an F.B.I. official who spoke on condition of anonymity because the report has not been formally released. "Obviously, we want to keep guns out of the hands of terrorists, but we also have to be mindful of privacy and civil rights concerns, and we can't do anything beyond what the law allows us to do."

After initial reluctance from Mr. Ashcroft over Second Amendment concerns, the Justice Department changed its policy in February 2004 to allow the F.B.I. to do more cross-checking between gun-buying records and terrorist intelligence.

Under the new policy, millions of gun applications are run against the F.B.I.'s internal terrorist watch list, and if there is a match, bureau field agents or other counterterrorism personnel are to be contacted to determine whether they have any information about the terror suspect.

In some cases, the extra review allowed the F.B.I. to block a gun purchase by a suspected terrorist that might otherwise have proceeded because of a lag time in putting information into the database, the accountability office's report said.

In one instance last year, follow-up information provided by F.B.I. field agents revealed that someone on a terror watch list was deemed "mentally defective," even though that information had not yet made its way into the gun database. In a second case, field agents disclosed that an applicant was in the country illegally. Both applications were denied.

Even so, the report concluded that the Justice Department should clarify what information could and could not be shared between gun-buying administrators and terrorism investigators. It also concluded that the F.B.I. should keep closer track of the performance of state officials who handle gun background checks in lieu of the F.B.I.

"Given that these background checks involve known or suspected terrorists who could pose homeland security risks," the report said, "more frequent F.B.I. oversight or centralized management would help ensure that suspected terrorists who have disqualifying factors do not obtain firearms in violation of the law."

NY Times (http://nytimes.com/2005/03/08/national/08terror.html?pagewanted=2)

FORD
03-08-2005, 08:09 PM
I remember reading how the NRA bragged during the 2000 campaign about how they would be able to "open a branch office in the White House" if Junior was elected. Which he wasn't, of course, but he's there anyway.

The BCE needs the gun lobby to get votes, so they will never take guns away from anyone. Not even convicted felons or terrorists.

Nickdfresh
03-08-2005, 08:12 PM
See Liberal bitches! Terrorists do have some rights under the Bush Administration! They can't fly, may get tortured, and could be held without charge indefinitely; but we'll never take their guns!

Seshmeister
03-08-2005, 08:14 PM
The NRA proves Americans are crazy...:)

LoungeMachine
03-08-2005, 09:20 PM
CAPITOL HILL F-B-I Director Robert Mueller says the nation's gun laws could use some modifications.

His comments come after a government report found dozens of terror suspects were able to buy guns last year, despite being on the government's terror watch list.

Mueller stressed to a House panel that being on that list isn't enough of a red flag to prevent a purchase. That would only happen if the individual had a felony conviction or some other prohibiting factor in his or her background.

Mueller told lawmakers the law should be reviewed with an eye toward limiting access to weapons.

The report from congressional investigators contains several recommendations aimed at making sure critical background information is shared with all who need it.

Copyright 2005 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

Seshmeister
03-08-2005, 09:24 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Copyright 2005 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

Ooof you rebel...:)

LoungeMachine
03-08-2005, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
Ooof you rebel...:)

I'm probably on some "watchlist" now.

No worries.

I may not be able to fly.......but my Uzi can clear the terminal :D

LoungeMachine
03-08-2005, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
The NRA proves Americans are crazy...:)

Americans prove Americans are crazy:D


But so was Rome........:cool:

FORD
03-08-2005, 09:34 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Americans prove Americans are crazy:D


But so was Rome........:cool:

Bush probably can't fiddle like Nero when his empire burns, but he can just get Clear Channel to send a sheep up from Nashville to take care of it.

Seshmeister
03-08-2005, 09:38 PM
When we're old men the US will have imploded like the UK did and the only superpower will be the Chinese.

You read it here first...:)

FORD
03-08-2005, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
When we're old men the US will have imploded like the UK did and the only superpower will be the Chinese.

You read it here first...:)

Fuck that. I can't even eat with chopsticks let alone speak any of the several Chinese languages.

Not to mention Chinese made cars would do me absolutely no good at all :(

LoungeMachine
03-08-2005, 09:46 PM
Originally posted by FORD
.

Not to mention Chinese made cars would do me absolutely no good at all :(

The Chinese prefer Lexus.

And buying American Debt.

And securing Oil Futures.

Seshmeister
03-08-2005, 09:49 PM
We're doomed, doomed I tell ya...

Nickdfresh
03-08-2005, 09:51 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
The Chinese prefer Lexus.

And buying American Debt.

And securing Oil Futures.

I thought it was Volkswagon. But I hear that both Detroit and Tokyo are pissing themselves in anticipation of the new, cheap Chinese imports. Hell, that's all we'll be able to afford with steller Walmart careers!

LoungeMachine
03-08-2005, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
We're doomed, doomed I tell ya...

Yeah, but the light show is gonna be killer:cool:

Gamma Gamma Hey

Seshmeister
03-08-2005, 09:54 PM
My kid has 100 toys and every single fucking one of them is made in China.

Not long before cars follow suit...

LoungeMachine
03-08-2005, 09:57 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I thought it was Volkswagon.

You obviously hang with a much lowha clahss :D


Growing Defense
Growing Economy
Growing thirst for OIL
Growing population
Growing annoyed with our stance on Taiwan

and buying as much US Debt as they can........

Nickdfresh
03-08-2005, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
You obviously hang with a much lowha clahss :D


Growing Defense
Growing Economy
Growing thirst for OIL
Growing population
Growing annoyed with our stance on Taiwan

and buying as much US Debt as they can........

They now have the "Sunburn" anti-ship missile, a system that may make our aircraft carriers obsolete.

As for me, I AM LOWER CLASS:D But I wouldn't buy a Volkswagon, 'cept maybe the 52mpg diesel Golf TDI.

Big Train
03-08-2005, 10:08 PM
There is the other side of the "we are fucked" equation.

In order to cash in that debt, we have to pay them. With no jobs, no payments, just defaults.

In order for them to have the ability to SELL to us , we have to have the ability to BUY from them..checks and balances, it's a world ball game.

Thirst for oil creates opportunity $$$ finally for the alt. energy tech to finally get used in a meaningful way.

Haggis, meat pies and all the other "pub" fare that gets shoveled down the gullets proves to me the UK is fucking insane...you'd have to be an alkie just to eat dinner there and manage to keep it down.

Nickdfresh
03-08-2005, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
There is the other side of the "we are fucked" equation.

In order to cash in that debt, we have to pay them. With no jobs, no payments, just defaults.



Good point. Didn't we sort of fuck the Japanese that way in the early 90's?

LoungeMachine
03-08-2005, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
There is the other side of the "we are fucked" equation.

In order to cash in that debt, we have to pay them. With no jobs, no payments, just defaults.

In order for them to have the ability to SELL to us , we have to have the ability to BUY from them..checks and balances, it's a world ball game.

Thirst for oil creates opportunity $$$ finally for the alt. energy tech to finally get used in a meaningful way.

Haggis, meat pies and all the other "pub" fare that gets shoveled down the gullets proves to me the UK is fucking insane...you'd have to be an alkie just to eat dinner there and manage to keep it down.

Excellent Post:D

LoungeMachine
03-08-2005, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
Haggis, meat pies and all the other "pub" fare that gets shoveled down the gullets proves to me the UK is fucking insane...you'd have to be an alkie just to eat dinner there and manage to keep it down.

Two Words



Blood Pudding

:o puke

FORD
03-08-2005, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by Big Train


Haggis, meat pies and all the other "pub" fare that gets shoveled down the gullets proves to me the UK is fucking insane...you'd have to be an alkie just to eat dinner there and manage to keep it down.

Actually, what I heard from friends who went to the UK a few years ago, is that the pubs are the best places to eat. It's the more formal restaraunts that serve the truly horrid stuff.

And I know what you're thinking. But these people aren't really drinkers, so it wasn't a matter of killing tastebuds before hand. And as far as I know, they didn't try the haggis.

Hell I had some sort of a "sheperd's pie" thing at an Irish pub in Seattle before the DLR show in 2001. It looked repulsive as hell, but actually tasted pretty good. Probably because it was made with Guinness (which is why I ordered it ) :gulp: :gulp: :gulp:

Seshmeister
03-08-2005, 10:33 PM
Hmmm...

I dunno I've spent quite a lot of time in the US and travelled all over the UK.

I'm a bit of a foodie and like US food but to be honest I don't see a big difference between the food in bars between the two countries apart from in the US the portions are biggger.

The real difference is in service. In the US the service is a million times better than the UK, I think that's partly due to the tips culture.

As reagrds blood pudding or as we call it euphamistically black pudding, I don't eat it myself but my 20 month year old loves it and it's very healthy for her.

Nosferatu?

In any case it may seem a bit distasteful but Jesus have you ever looked into what goes into a MacNugget?

Cheers!

:gulp:

diamondD
03-08-2005, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by FORD
Actually, what I heard from friends who went to the UK a few years ago, is that the pubs are the best places to eat. It's the more formal restaraunts that serve the truly horrid stuff.

And I know what you're thinking. But these people aren't really drinkers, so it wasn't a matter of killing tastebuds before hand. And as far as I know, they didn't try the haggis.

Hell I had some sort of a "sheperd's pie" thing at an Irish pub in Seattle before the DLR show in 2001. It looked repulsive as hell, but actually tasted pretty good. Probably because it was made with Guinness (which is why I ordered it ) :gulp: :gulp: :gulp:


That was pretty nasty looking, I just didn't want to say anything. The menus around there are a real change from this area. I don't even know anyplace that sells chowder of any kind.

diamondD
03-08-2005, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
Hmmm...

I dunno I've spent quite a lot of time in the US and travelled all over the UK.

I'm a bit of a foodie and like US food but to be honest I don't see a big difference between the food in bars between the two countries apart from in the US the portions are biggger.

The real difference is in service. In the US the service is a million times better than the UK, I think that's partly due to the tips culture.

As reagrds blood pudding or as we call it euphamistically black pudding, I don't eat it myself but my 20 month year old loves it and it's very healthy for her.

Nosferatu?

In any case it may seem a bit distasteful but Jesus have you ever looked into what goes into a MacNugget?

Cheers!

:gulp:

Or a McRib? Ugggh. That's got to be the nastiest looking fast food there is.

A friend of mine calls stuff that's in stuff like the nuggets "dickfeet meat". Technically it's still chicken and they have to do something with those parts...

FORD
03-08-2005, 11:32 PM
Originally posted by diamondD
That was pretty nasty looking, I just didn't want to say anything. The menus around there are a real change from this area. I don't even know anyplace that sells chowder of any kind.

Considering there isn't exactly a large supply of fresh seafood in Arkansas, that's probably a good thing. At least you know the chicken's fresh down there. McNuggets excepted ;)

Cathedral
03-08-2005, 11:55 PM
I worked for Tyson back in the 80's.
Actually it was called Pierre Foods and they packaged Tyson stuff, which is why you will never again see boxes of frozen processed foods in my freezer.

There is no such thing as fresh food anymore, especially with chicken unless you buy it in its pure chicken form.
It made no sense to me that we would grind the crap out of the chicken until it's a paste, and then they stamp the stuff to look like an actual part of the chicken again.
Same with pork, grind it up, stamp it into the form of a chop, freeze it, package it, ship it.

It's disgusting and once you see how it is made from start to finish, you'll never eat it again....

My brother and I split an entire cow every year, and i don't do chicken much since the family farm was mostly sold off.
A live cow goes into the building and comes out the other side all sliced and ready to freeze...it's the epitomy of fresh meat and is pretty much cheaper than buying steaks at Kroger all summer.

Nickdfresh
03-09-2005, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by Cathedral
I worked for Tyson back in the 80's.
Actually it was called Pierre Foods and they packaged Tyson stuff, which is why you will never again see boxes of frozen processed foods in my freezer.

There is no such thing as fresh food anymore, especially with chicken unless you buy it in its pure chicken form.
It made no sense to me that we would grind the crap out of the chicken until it's a paste, and then they stamp the stuff to look like an actual part of the chicken again.
Same with pork, grind it up, stamp it into the form of a chop, freeze it, package it, ship it.

It's disgusting and once you see how it is made from start to finish, you'll never eat it again....

My brother and I split an entire cow every year, and i don't do chicken much since the family farm was mostly sold off.
A live cow goes into the building and comes out the other side all sliced and ready to freeze...it's the epitomy of fresh meat and is pretty much cheaper than buying steaks at Kroger all summer.

I don't want to know this!:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

ELVIS
03-09-2005, 12:05 AM
What would you rather think ??

Nickdfresh
03-09-2005, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by ELVIS
What would you rather think ??

Food is all fresh and clean! That when I eat my lard sandwich, some dude DID NOT fall into the vat! **Thank you "CONCRETE JUNGLE"** :mad: !

diamondD
03-09-2005, 12:26 AM
I've also heard that restaurants that serve "boneless" chicken wings are usually selling you something that was shipped to them in powder form and put in molds at the restaurant. I've only eaten chicken with a bone in it at restaurants ever since I was told that by someone who worked there.