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Nickdfresh
03-23-2005, 10:26 AM
Any of you "macho" pussies gonna join?:D

Army Raises Maximum Age For Recruits
By Jon R. Anderson
Stars and Stripes (http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,FL_age_032105,00.html?ESRC=army.nl)
European Edition
March 21, 2005

ARLINGTON, Va. — Battling recruiting and retention shortfalls among its part-time soldiers, the Army is launching a new experimental policy approving the acceptance of not-so-young recruits into the ranks of the Army National Guard and Reserve.

Dubbed a three-year "test," the new policy will bump up the maximum age for new enlistments from 34 years to 39 years, according to an Army announcement.

The policy applies to both men and women joining the military for the first time. The older recruits will be eligible for the same enlistment bonuses and other incentives as younger volunteers, according to the announcement. Those with prior service experience interested in reserves duty remain under existing rules.

"The program will evaluate the feasibility of a permanent change to Army Reserve Component enlistment policy," reads the announcement. The test program begins immediately and will run through September 30, 2008. Set by law, the maximum age for active-duty recruits will remain at less than 35 years old.

The move comes as reserve recruiters are struggling to convince potential recruits to join even as unit leaders are failing to convince enough troops to stay in uniform beyond initial contracts. Hundreds of thousands of part-time citizen soldiers have found themselves facing full-time duty in the combat zones, mostly under two-year mobilization orders. Of the more than 412,000 Guard and Reserve troops who have been activated since Sept. 11, 2001, more than 63,000 have been mobilized twice, according to Pentagon figures.

Nearly half of the forces now in the Middle East and Central Asia come from the reserve components, noted Charles S. Abell, the Pentagon's top personnel officer, in prepared remarks delivered before lawmakers March 16.

With that as backdrop, he wrote, "This will be a very challenging year for recruiting for the reserve components particularly in the Army National Guard and Reserve," which have born the vast majority of combat deployments among reserve forces. Both the Army Guard and Reserve, he wrote "are at high risk of falling short of their recruiting objectives."

To help stem the tide, the Army National Guard is increasing its recruiting force by more than 25 percent, adding 1,400 new recruiters. Meanwhile, the Army Reserve is nearly doubling its recruiting ranks with 734 new recruiters.

The Army's new policy should help their efforts.

"Raising the maximum age for non-prior service enlistment expands the recruiting pool, provides motivated individuals an opportunity to serve, and strengthens the readiness of Reserve units," according to the Army statement announcing the new policy.

All applicants must meet the same eligibility standards, to include passing the same physical standards and medical examination.

"Experience has shown that older recruits who can meet the physical demands of military service generally make excellent Soldiers based on their maturity, motivation, loyalty, and patriotism," reads the announcement.

It's too early to say how much the new policy will help recruiters, but officials are hopeful.

"The impact of the measure on meeting enlistment goals has not been forecast, but it is expected to contribute to the Army's efforts to recruit top-quality individuals," according to the announcement.

Warham
03-23-2005, 10:34 AM
I would have thought about it before I got married and had a kid, and was about ten years younger. :D

FORD
03-23-2005, 10:36 AM
No excuses Warham. Support your pResident and his goddamned stupid war, if you believe in it. Sign up.

Warham
03-23-2005, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by FORD
No excuses Warham. Support your pResident and his goddamned stupid war, if you believe in it. Sign up.

So 70 year olds who support Bush should sign up, FORD?

Boy, you got some dumb logic there, pal.

Obviously they can't, but they should, since they support him!

I don't think the war is stupid, and I see no reason why we should have to sign up. The troops over there are VOLUNTEERS. I hope you can understand that word. Nobody was forced to do anything.

You liberals act like these troops were drafted.

The only drafts that would happen would be while a Democrat is in the White House, though, so that doesn't apply in this case.

LoungeMachine
03-23-2005, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by Warham
So 70 year olds who support Bush should sign up, FORD?

Boy, you got some dumb logic there, pal.

Obviously they can't, but they should, since they support him!

I don't think the war is stupid, and I see no reason why we should have to sign up. The troops over there are VOLUNTEERS. I hope you can understand that word. Nobody was forced to do anything.

You call HIS logic "dumb", yet you equate a 39 year old to a 70 year old?:rolleyes:

You're now a pussy AND a hypocrite.

well done:D

steve
03-23-2005, 10:50 AM
http://www.ada.org/prof/resources/pubs/adanews/adanewsarticle.asp?articleid=999
70-year-old oral surgeon heeds Army’s call to duty


By Craig Palmer

Satellite Beach, Fla. — Dr. John J. Caulfield was incredulous about the Army's "unsolicited communication" inviting his return to active duty toward easing increasing wartime demands on military medical treatment facilities.
http://www.ada.org/prof/resources/pubs/adanews/images/040805_caulfield.jpg
Dr. Caulfield

He disregarded the first postcard last December and the second and subsequent phone messages on the answering machine, not from any unwillingness to serve — "My government has never asked me to do anything I ever refused" — but figuring they used the wrong mailing list, it's not really me they want.

The Army persisted. Would Dr. Caulfield, oral surgeon and Vietnam veteran, retired from military service in 1980 and civilian practice Jan. 1, be willing to return to active duty in, say, Iraq or Afghanistan? The negotiations began with Dr. Caulfield asking, "Do you know how old I am?" They did, and age doesn't matter, "We want you."

Dr. Caulfield, who turned 70 Aug. 7, reports to Fort Benning, Ga., Oct. 17 for what he and the military describe as "voluntary deployment" with the 325th Combat Support Hospital in Bagram, Afghanistan.

"I don't know at this time if there is anyone older," said Lt. Col. Bryan Hilferty, Army public affairs officer. "But there are no age limitations for retired medical professionals. We sent cards to hundreds of people. It's a personnel policy. In certain specialties we are asking for retired professionals to return for a short tour on active duty. But it's purely voluntary. It's really for a volunteer in good shape. There's a lot of need for medical professionals over there."

How short the tour? Dr. Caulfield understands it to be a three-month assignment. "I believe it's 120 days," said Lt. Col. Hilferty.

Dr. Caulfield sees himself as "a kind of fatalist" and Afghanistan as "moderately busy for my specialty." He invokes harsher descriptions for the requisite reconstruction of professional and military careers just to get the assignment. "Getting reactivated is a complicated, time consuming, frustrating and, yes, somewhat demeaning process," he said.

What it meant was "vetting" the past by running down all the transcripts, personal recommendations and documentation from high school, college, professional school, internship, residency, licensure boards, hospitals with privilege, professional liability history and appointments "from everywhere I had ever practiced or been licensed." That meant affirmation from a classmate at a high school that no longer exists who said upon their reacquaintance, "John, I heard you were dead."

So it came to this. "After clearing it with my wife of 47 years, I agreed to go anyplace where she could join me." The Army suggested Iraq. "Only if I'm really needed," Dr. Caulfield demurred. Then how about Afghanistan? the Army responded.

"Let's put it this way, I have orders," said Dr. Caulfield. "So much for going somewhere my wife could accompany me."

"We appreciate people like Dr. Caulfield," said Lt. Col. Hilferty. "He's a patriot. I have great respect for him."

Dr. Caulfield, father of four, grandfather of eight, figures he's in "reasonable good health with the exception of meds for hypertension, acid reflux and a little osteoarthritis," and good to go. But he wonders if the Army Medical Service isn't "stretched thin" in having to reach for retired oral surgeons, ophthalmologists, psychiatrists, nurse anesthetists and other specialists for combat duty

Warham
03-23-2005, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
You call HIS logic "dumb", yet you equate a 39 year old to a 70 year old?:rolleyes:

You're now a pussy AND a hypocrite.

well done:D

I wish you could read, Lounge. Didn't I tell you to get a refund for that diploma you got?

I said they CAN'T, but they should, according to FORD's demented logic. I'm sure FORD thinks they'll keep raising the minimum age, eventually getting up to 70, to get more bodies over there to get killed.

FORD
03-23-2005, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by Warham
So 70 year olds who support Bush should sign up, FORD?

Boy, you got some dumb logic there, pal.

Obviously they can't, but they should, since they support him!

I don't think the war is stupid, and I see no reason why we should have to sign up. The troops over there are VOLUNTEERS. I hope you can understand that word. Nobody was forced to do anything.

You liberals act like these troops were drafted.

The only drafts that would happen would be while a Democrat is in the White House, though, so that doesn't apply in this case.

Actually, there have been some who were more or less "forced" to go over to that shithole, and some of them were actually in their 60's and 70's. This was done through some backdoor draft manipulation, like somebody forgetting to sign one line on a form in 1973 or whatever. This is the ONLY way the BCE has been able to dodge a draft (Junior's good at that) so far.

Of course, if they invade another country, even that's not gonna cut it.

Don't be surprised if the draft topic comes up about 6 weeks from now. Just a hunch......

academic punk
03-23-2005, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
You call HIS logic "dumb", yet you equate a 39 year old to a 70 year old?:rolleyes:

You're now a pussy AND a hypocrite.

well done:D

I have to agree here, Ham. I owned up when I went off in the wrong direction. C'mon. Stop paying lip service. You're an able bodied supporter, who is within the age confines. Put yr money where your mouth is.

(BTW, thi si actually bad. IF - IF - there comes a time for a draft, it makes all of us all the more eligible. except for Ford, who would obviously be 4-F.)

LoungeMachine
03-23-2005, 10:52 AM
Either way.....

you're still a hypocritical pussy.

Not a very bright one, at that.

steve
03-23-2005, 10:53 AM
http://www.ada.org/prof/resources/pubs/adanews/images/040805_caulfield.jpg
John Caulfield:
"Please you young whippersnappers in your 30s. My iron hip can't take another trip to "The Green Zone". All those metal detectors had me flying around like a Nun from a 1950s TV show.
Please, sign up so I don't have to!"

Nickdfresh
03-23-2005, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by Warham
So 70 year olds who support Bush should sign up, FORD?

Boy, you got some dumb logic there, pal.

Obviously they can't, but they should, since they support him!

I don't think the war is stupid, and I see no reason why we should have to sign up. The troops over there are VOLUNTEERS. I hope you can understand that word. Nobody was forced to do anything.

You liberals act like these troops were drafted.

The only drafts that would happen would be while a Democrat is in the White House, though, so that doesn't apply in this case.

C'mon WARHAM, you can now join the USAReserve up to age 39! Active forces cut off at 35. I mean, odds are you won't get depolyed, more than once or twice. Now you can put your career/family on hold and march off to fight the War on Terra' in Iraaaq! After all, you do support OTHER PEOPLE fighting your War!


"I WANT YOU TO BE MY SUCKA'"
http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=430925

LoungeMachine
03-23-2005, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by academic punk
I have to agree here, Ham. I owned up when I went off in the wrong direction. C'mon. Stop paying lip service. You're an able bodied supporter, who is within the age confines. Put yr money where your mouth is.



And now the backpeddling begins.......:rolleyes:


Oh I would but I just had a kid...........

SO FUCKING WHAT, ASSWIPE. MANY OF THOSE WHO SERVED AND DIED IN THIS SHAM OF A WAR DID TOO

Nickdfresh
03-23-2005, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by steve
http://www.ada.org/prof/resources/pubs/adanews/adanewsarticle.asp?articleid=999
70-year-old oral surgeon heeds Army’s call to duty


By Craig Palmer

Satellite Beach, Fla. — Dr. John J. Caulfield...

WTF!?!:confused: They're actually asking a 70-year-old man to go to a War zone? I could see if they asked him to be a 'DA civilian' at a nearby base, but to Afghanistan?

BigBadBrian
03-23-2005, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Either way.....

you're still a hypocritical pussy.

Not a very bright one, at that.


Internet Tough Guy. Go back to hiding under your bed.

Nickdfresh
03-23-2005, 11:01 AM
What about ELVIS? Isn't he younger than 40? The Army really needs nurses to treat those causualties!

Nickdfresh
03-23-2005, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Internet Tough Guy. Go back to hiding under your bed.

You should talk! You're the biggest 'internet tough-guy' here!;)

academic punk
03-23-2005, 11:03 AM
Oh, but wait...your support for Bush extends only to your fucking tax break.

Fuckin' liar. Your only God isn't the teachings of Jesus, it's MONEY.

Warham
03-23-2005, 11:07 AM
No, my support of Bush's policies isn't totally inclusive (Lounge wouldn't know what that big word means. He'll have to check out dictionary.com to figure it out).

I don't agree with his border policy for one.

Warham
03-23-2005, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by academic punk
Oh, but wait...your support for Bush extends only to your fucking tax break.

Fuckin' liar. Your only God isn't the teachings of Jesus, it's MONEY.

You sure like to put out the jokes, but you sure don't understand them when they come your way.

steve
03-23-2005, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
What about ELVIS? Isn't he younger than 40? The Army really needs nurses to treat those causualties!

Bwaaa ha ha ha!!!! ROTFMLOL!

Warham
03-23-2005, 11:09 AM
If every 18-39 male Bush supporter entered the service, wouldn't be too good for the economy over here, would it?

Let's see.

62,000,000 folks voted for Bush. About half were male. So that's 31,000,000. Say about 40% (a lowball figure) of those males were under the age of 39.

That's about 12 million jobs lost in this country due to all those males signing up for service. The GNP would decrease tremendously.

LoungeMachine
03-23-2005, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
You should talk! You're the biggest 'internet tough-guy' here!;)

:D

Hey, maybe "under the bed" is where that pesky receipt is...

academic punk
03-23-2005, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by Warham
If every 18-39 male Bush supporter entered the service, wouldn't be too good for the economy over here, would it?


So first you duck by comparigng yourself to a 70 year old. Now you're worried that EVERYONE will join.

Nonono, hammy, it's just you. You may have the ability to please the wife like a 70 year old (and I'm only talking about your BREATH here), but I'm sure they'd find a place for ya at Fort Useless Dick.

LoungeMachine
03-23-2005, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
What about ELVIS? Isn't he younger than 40? The Army really needs nurses to treat those causualties!

And he could convert all of those evil muslims before they burn in hell:cool:

LoungeMachine
03-23-2005, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by academic punk
So first you duck by comparigng yourself to a 70 year old. Now you're worried that EVERYONE will join.

Nonono, hammy, it's just you. You may have the ability to please the wife like a 70 year old (and I'm only talking about your BREATH here), but I'm sure they'd find a place for ya at Fort Useless Dick.


Fucking CLASSIC:D

Warham
03-23-2005, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by academic punk
So first you duck by comparigng yourself to a 70 year old. Now you're worried that EVERYONE will join.

Nonono, hammy, it's just you. You may have the ability to please the wife like a 70 year old (and I'm only talking about your BREATH here), but I'm sure they'd find a place for ya at Fort Useless Dick.

Hey, I never compared myself to a 70 year old.

You were the one who compared Terri Shiavo to Jesus.

The one make these comparisons is you, not I, good sir.

LoungeMachine
03-23-2005, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by academic punk
So first you duck by comparigng yourself to a 70 year old. Now you're worried that EVERYONE will join.

.


Flipflopper

academic punk
03-23-2005, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by Warham
You sure like to put out the jokes, but you sure don't understand them when they come your way.


You're right. But it's not just your jokes, it's also your warped logic. BBB and Big Train at least have a rationale behind their stances. ;)

Warham
03-23-2005, 11:17 AM
My logic isn't warped at all.

I think you guys type too fast, and don't read very well.

Warham
03-23-2005, 11:19 AM
My question to FORD was, and I made the point using a 70 year old.

Should ever man and woman who supports George Bush sign up for service? Women can join too, ya know.

It's a valid question, and I'd like you to answer.

Nickdfresh
03-23-2005, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
And he could convert all of those evil muslims before they burn in hell:cool:

And his fellow nurses can call him "Hotlips." :D

academic punk
03-23-2005, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by Warham
My question to FORD was, and I made the point using a 70 year old.

Should ever man and woman who supports George Bush sign up for service? Women can join too, ya know.

It's a valid question, and I'd like you to answer.


But we're tralking specifically about YOU here, sweet cheeks.

Let's not get into abstracts.

YOU - YOU support the war, you believe in the effort...so put your money where your mouth is...support our military and the administrations policies in more than just lip service on a David Lee Roth message board.

academic punk
03-23-2005, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
And his fellow nurses can call him "Hotlips." :D

hahahahahahahahaa

academic punk
03-23-2005, 11:26 AM
Jeb is in the news...reneweing his call to spare terri...

Nickdfresh
03-23-2005, 11:28 AM
List of NEO CON War supporters (BIGBADBRIAN is excused, being medically retired from the USN):

McCarrans

BIG TRAIN

WARHAM

SGT. SCHULTZ

ELVIS

LOUOOOO!!! (only 23 0r 24, hey he could've enlisted at anytime!:mad: )

JACKSMAR

Who else?

Big Train
03-23-2005, 11:28 AM
How many threads are we gonna have based on this tired and faulty logic?

I believe in going to Mars..should I have to be an astronaut?

I believe in fiscal reform..should I be an expert in economics?

I believe in eating meat...should I have to be a line cook (and endanger Lounge's job?). I like fries with meat (should I take over Nick's after school job :)
)

If you believe in any of this "Support the war/go to war" nonsense then I guess so. To me this is as tired as any "Clinton Obsession" thread around here. But, it is something libs feel they can "get" Neo Cons on, which is sad. How about you "get" them in the elections...asking to much?

Warham
03-23-2005, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by academic punk
But we're tralking specifically about YOU here, sweet cheeks.

Let's not get into abstracts.

YOU - YOU support the war, you believe in the effort...so put your money where your mouth is...support our military and the administrations policies in more than just lip service on a David Lee Roth message board.

Don't just pick on me, punk. Pick on every Bush voter.

I already answered the question.

If you were so serious about politics, you wouldn't be here either.

This forum is strictly for entertainment.

Nickdfresh
03-23-2005, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by Big Train
How many threads are we gonna have based on this tired and faulty logic?

I believe in going to Mars..should I have to be an astronaut?

I believe in fiscal reform..should I be an expert in economics?

I believe in eating meat...should I have to be a line cook (and endanger Lounge's job?). I like fries with meat (should I take over Nick's after school job :)
)

If you believe in any of this "Support the war/go to war" nonsense then I guess so. To me this is as tired as any "Clinton Obsession" thread around here. But, it is something libs feel they can "get" Neo Cons on, which is sad. How about you "get" them in the elections...asking to much?

But this a NEW thread, since the US Army Reserve now accepts 39-year-olds. That's one of the biggest excuses I hear around here is that "I'm too old," well goddamnit! Enlist in the USAR or stop voting other people too War! It's only part-time right?

Nickdfresh
03-23-2005, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by Big Train
How many threads are we gonna have based on this tired and faulty logic?

I believe in going to Mars..should I have to be an astronaut?

I believe in fiscal reform..should I be an expert in economics?

I believe in eating meat...should I have to be a line cook (and endanger Lounge's job?). I like fries with meat (should I take over Nick's after school job :)
)

You mean would you like a martini or a Sam Adams as well?...My other after school job is selling MP3's. :) And you see the girls I work with. ;) And I bet you do like meat.


If you believe in any of this "Support the war/go to war" nonsense then I guess so. To me this is as tired as any "Clinton Obsession" thread around here. But, it is something libs feel they can "get" Neo Cons on, which is sad. How about you "get" them in the elections...asking to much?

I believe people should put their money where ther mouth is! And stop putting such a huge burden on a relatively small number of people with their holier-than-now political retoric about making the world safe for democracy! There's a recruitment shortage, so IT IS A VALID ISSUE! You're the one displaying faulty logic pal!

LoungeMachine
03-23-2005, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by Warham
Don't just pick on me, punk. Pick on every Bush voter.

.

ahhhhh

being picked on hammy???

Big Train
03-23-2005, 11:38 AM
I make no excuses about it. I chose not to serve, but I support the war and I support those who chose to serve in it, whatever their age.

"Enlist in the USAR or stop voting other people too War!" you say...

Stop eating meat unless you prepare it full time.

Stop using water unless you dig wells every weekend.

Stop using paper unless you cut the tree down yourself.

Stop using music unless your purchased it legally.

Follow your own logic...

Nickdfresh
03-23-2005, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by Big Train
I make no excuses about it. I chose not to serve, but I support the war and I support those who chose to serve in it, whatever their age.

"Enlist in the USAR or stop voting other people too War!" you say...


No you don't, you pay them lip service. That is not support!



Stop eating meat unless you prepare it full time.


Stop using water unless you dig wells every weekend.

Stop using paper unless you cut the tree down yourself.

Stop using music unless your purchased it legally.

Follow your own logic...

Terrible analogies for our brave men and women in service, I was watching ABC News last night where a (not more than) 21-year-old female MP Sergeant whacked a couple insurgents with her M-4.
http://a.abcnews.com/images/WNT/abc_wnt_firefight_hester_050322_t.jpg
Can't you tough guys give her a hand?

Linky (http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/IraqCoverage/story?id=604907&page=1)

academic punk
03-23-2005, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
ahhhhh

being picked on hammy???


passing the buck again...

kentuckyklira
03-23-2005, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by Warham
So 70 year olds who support Bush should sign up, FORD?

Well, they could help drape the coffins!

FORD
03-23-2005, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by Warham
My question to FORD was, and I made the point using a 70 year old.

Should ever man and woman who supports George Bush sign up for service? Women can join too, ya know.

It's a valid question, and I'd like you to answer.

Actually, yes I believe they should.

If you believe that the BCE and PNAC are correct in sending someone else's kids to die in a country which never threatened us, and was incapable of threatening us, then you should be willing to go yourself.

And if all you red state Busheep signed up, you would either figure out soon that the BCE lied, or you would be killed. Either way the neocons days would be numbered, and that would be good for America :)

Warham
03-23-2005, 11:56 AM
I believe Iraq threatened other countries, and I believe the world is a safer place now.

Sue me.

Now, if Bush tightens up the border, I'll feel even better.

FORD
03-23-2005, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by Warham
I believe Iraq threatened other countries, and I believe the world is a safer place now.

Sue me.

Now, if Bush tightens up the border, I'll feel even better.

I'll let Guitar Shark sue you. He's the lawyer. I'll just drag you down to the recruiter and make sure you sign on the dotted line :D

I do agree with the border thing though. And the seaports. That's what they should have done in the first fucking place.

Big Train
03-23-2005, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
No you don't, you pay them lip service. That is not support!



You know this how? By our relatively meaningless conversation we have day after day? I support them fully and do all I can to help them (yes fucker, I donate to the VA, blood drives etc..).

Holier than thou? C,mon Nick, did you teach drama club today or something?

How are my analogies invalid? They are as whacked out as yours..pissing on our envoirnment, taking jobs away, and stealing intellectual property aren't vital to the American people?

What the soliders do is incredibly brave and important. I don't have an issue with what they do, you do. I understand that. However, an unintelligent premise, such as been shown in this thread, doesn't change anything or prove anything.

Warham
03-23-2005, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by FORD
I'll let Guitar Shark sue you. He's the lawyer. I'll just drag you down to the recruiter and make sure you sign on the dotted line :D

I do agree with the border thing though. And the seaports. That's what they should have done in the first fucking place.

I get on Bush's ass about the border. There's no excuse to let all those people come flooding over the line. I don't blindly follow every one of his policies.

FORD
03-23-2005, 12:15 PM
I'll bet Big Train would volunteer for Iraq if he knew about that huge MP3 stash they found on Hopalong Zarqawi's laptop ;)

Big Train
03-23-2005, 12:19 PM
I bet Ford would if Howard Dean said he was having regular town meetings there with free cookies :)

Nickdfresh
03-23-2005, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
You know this how? By our relatively meaningless conversation we have day after day? I support them fully and do all I can to help them (yes fucker, I donate to the VA, blood drives etc..).

Good for you. But you could still serve in the Reserves or Nat'l Guard in homeland defense.


Holier than thou? C,mon Nick, did you teach drama club today or something?

No, but I read some Shakespeare yesterday.


How are my analogies invalid? They are as whacked out as yours..pissing on our envoirnment, taking jobs away, and stealing intellectual property aren't vital to the American people?

Intellectual property? Like when they play it on the radio for free? I don't and would not sell MP3's BTW, in fact I either legally download or buy the CD copy of the MP3's I like to, being an audiophile, get a superior copy of the music, just like I am buying the six-pack to get better quality CVH! The Harvard study discounted that little argument. Meat has superior amino acids to vegetable based protein. I had no idea you were a salad eater BT. :D And the guy you voted for is good at taking jobs away!


What the soliders do is incredibly brave and important. I don't have an issue with what they do, you do. I understand that. However, an unintelligent premise, such as been shown in this thread, doesn't change anything or prove anything.

True, our soldiers are courageous and all that, and this thread proves as 'bout as much as every other thread here does. But you can not so easily marginalize this "sunshine patriot" discussion. The premise is valid.

FORD
03-23-2005, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
I bet Ford would if Howard Dean said he was having regular town meetings there with free cookies :)

Nah, that's too long of a commute for just a town meeting. Hopefully the Doc will have streaming video. And someone can bring the cookies.

Big Train
03-23-2005, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Good for you. But you could still serve in the Reserves or Nat'l Guard in homeland defense.

Intellectual property? Like when they play it on the radio for free? I don't and would not sell MP3's BTW, in fact I either legally download or buy the CD copy of the MP3's I like to, being an audiophile, get a superior copy of the music, just like I am buying the six-pack to get better quality CVH! The Harvard study discounted that little argument. Meat has superior amino acids to vegetable based protein. I had no idea you were a salad eater BT. :D And the guy you voted for is good at taking jobs away!

True, our soldiers are courageous and all that, and this thread proves as 'bout as much as every other thread here does. But you can not so easily marginalize this "sunshine patriot" discussion. The premise is valid.

Nick, then why don't we go down and sign up together? You do believe in Homeland Defense right? Pick me up in the AM..we can sign up, then get tats that support our position. Then we can start working border patrol..

Your music arguments are ALWAYS simpleminded and naive, which amuse me a great deal. However, in order to keep this thread on track, let's take that expanded discussion to the House of Music. BTW, the Harvard study is based on so many faulty premises I don't know where to begin..

The "Sunshine Patriot" argument is only valid if you accept my analogies, which follow a similar logic. You have to accept the logic in order to accept the argument, whether or not your think my examples are silly.

Nickdfresh
03-23-2005, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
Nick, then why don't we go down and sign up together? You do believe in Homeland Defense right? Pick me up in the AM..we can sign up, then get tats that support our position. Then we can start working border patrol..

I served my time. Besides, is sending the National Guard and Reserves to Iraq really homeland defense?


Your music arguments are ALWAYS simpleminded and naive, which amuse me a great deal. However, in order to keep this thread on track, let's take that expanded discussion to the House of Music. BTW, the Harvard study is based on so many faulty premises I don't know where to begin..

None of those "faulty premises" of the Harvard study are "simple-minded." Actually, you record exec's amuse me. Sales of CD's rose sharply last year yet you still cry poverty. Stop losing money on Titney Spears in order to have a markee brand. And come out with a new recording format with lossless audio, CD tech. sucks and is over 20 years old now. Come out with a new format, and people will have to rebuy there entire catalogue again, like they did in the early 80's, which is the real reason why sales were much higher then!


The "Sunshine Patriot" argument is only valid if you accept my analogies, which follow a similar logic. You have to accept the logic in order to accept the argument, whether or not your think my examples are silly.

That's your opinion. Just because you don't like this thread, doesn't make it any less valid!

Big Train
03-23-2005, 01:53 PM
Like I said Nick, when it comes to music stuff, your ALWAYS good for a laugh:

THE WEEKLY VIGIL: In today’s music biz, any good news is welcome, no matter how puny. So let’s whip up a batch of mimosa cocktails to celebrate the news that the market actually turned out to be up a gratifying 1% over last week. The grand total was 10.9 million units, compared to 10.8 million last week. On the other hand,_said total was off 3.5% (or 396k units) from the same week last year. So far in 2005, business is down 8.6%, on 122.5 million units. On second thought, hold the mimosas.

GLOBAL SALES FLAT: The IFPI released a report on 2004 global music sales today, saying that an increase of sales of music-video DVDs, combined with increased download sales, served to offset a small decline in hard-format sales, leaving results for the year flat. In dollar-value terms, hard-format sales shrank by 1.3% for the year, to $33.6 billion from $34.1 billion in 2003. But music DVDs rose 23% to $2.6 billion, while downloads saw ten-fold increases in the U.S., U.K., France and Germany, to over 200 million for the year. "The picture is very mixed, with online and physical piracy continuing to depress sales in major markets, particularly in Continental Europe and parts of Asia," the report states. But even so, 2004 showed "the best year-on-year trend for global music sales in five years." (3/22a)

It isn't my opinion, Nick. If you don't agree with the logic in my examples, your actually disagreeing with yourself. It's like saying 2-1=1, except in the example of 9-8, which equals 3. That isn't opinion, that's logic...

Nickdfresh
03-23-2005, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
Like I said Nick, when it comes to music stuff, your ALWAYS good for a laugh:

THE WEEKLY VIGIL: In today’s music biz, any good news is welcome, no matter how puny. So let’s whip up a batch of mimosa cocktails to celebrate the news that the market actually turned out to be up a gratifying 1% over last week. The grand total was 10.9 million units, compared to 10.8 million last week. On the other hand,_said total was off 3.5% (or 396k units) from the same week last year. So far in 2005, business is down 8.6%, on 122.5 million units. On second thought, hold the mimosas.

GLOBAL SALES FLAT: The IFPI released a report on 2004 global music sales today, saying that an increase of sales of music-video DVDs, combined with increased download sales, served to offset a small decline in hard-format sales, leaving results for the year flat. In dollar-value terms, hard-format sales shrank by 1.3% for the year, to $33.6 billion from $34.1 billion in 2003. But music DVDs rose 23% to $2.6 billion, while downloads saw ten-fold increases in the U.S., U.K., France and Germany, to over 200 million for the year. "The picture is very mixed, with online and physical piracy continuing to depress sales in major markets, particularly in Continental Europe and parts of Asia," the report states. But even so, 2004 showed "the best year-on-year trend for global music sales in five years." (3/22a)

It isn't my opinion, Nick. If you don't agree with the logic in my examples, your actually disagreeing with yourself. It's like saying 2-1=1, except in the example of 9-8, which equals 3. That isn't opinion, that's logic...

We're getting a little off track with the music stuff here. But I believe that I referenced "last year's" sales in THIS country since I'm an American. And the industry report fails to mention Mp3's as a sole source of this decline. Could it be that the world economy is flat right now?

And I am with you on the piracy thing, making counterfit items is a totally different ballgame. I reject the likening of it to online downloading. But I do think the Chinese should be held accountable for their pirate industries which they basically permit. Making lessor quality, defective goods is something else! I know that MP3's are of inferior quality already!

Nice attempt at sophist jujitsu, but your arguments are far from logical and are merely an attempt to distract from the central thesis. You contradicted yourself in regards to "my-opinion...logic" also.

Big Train
03-23-2005, 02:12 PM
Numbnuts,

2004 WAS last year, which is what those numbers refer to. If the world economy is indeed flat right now, how do you explain the last 5 years of decline? Like I said, let's take this to the House of Music if you care to.

Please do tell me how I have contradicted myself.

Nickdfresh
03-23-2005, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
Numbnuts,

2004 WAS last year, which is what those numbers refer to. If the world economy is indeed flat right now, how do you explain the last 5 years of decline? Like I said, let's take this to the House of Music if you care to.

Please do tell me how I have contradicted myself.

Read updated, previous post. I don't have time to go to the house of music, I'm already inflating my post count enough today anyways. I wasn't talking about counterfit world piracy, occuring mainly in China, that's a horse of a differnet color! Though I notice your mag takes pains to liken the two together.

Big Train
03-23-2005, 02:19 PM
Yea cause you know piracy and china have nothing to do with declining music sales...stop yourself.

Nickdfresh
03-23-2005, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
Yea cause you know piracy and china have nothing to do with declining music sales...stop yourself.

DownLoadingisGoodForYou! (http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13620)

We've been over this. I buy far more than I download. I ususally buy WHAT I download (ex. U2 HOW TO DISMANTLE AN ATOMIC BOMB, downloaded it, then bought the deluxe edition for $30!)

PS. I have also bought downloads of "Vertigo" and the LIVE UNDER THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE ep. And I also bought it as a gift for friends! Somehow, I don't feel guilty.

Big Train
03-23-2005, 02:51 PM
Yes we have and nothing has changed.

You buy what you download. Good for you. The majority of people absolutely do not and I don't know how much clearer that can be. The numbers and reality you don't want to own up to, and no problem for you, your not in the business.

What concerns me for america is the precedent we are allowing to be set via the music industry. I forsee cases of intellectual property in future years which affect America's GDP in FAR more expansive ways, being allowed to happen because of the precedent being set in the music business. Then we can all whine more and more about how America is suffering.

FORD
03-23-2005, 04:38 PM
The music industry is suffering from poor sales because 95% of what they sell is CRAP, and that's been the case since about 1996 when Soundgarden broke up.

Of course there have been notable exceptions. U2's last two albums. Even POP sold well enough, though it wasn't their best. Green Day's album is brilliant. But there's just so few islands in a sea of shit. Boybands, Britney, the same goddamn rap album released over and over again under different names. And Busheep propaganda "country". That's it.

I know it's how you make a living, but even so, how can you rationalize this industry's decline for any other reason than shitty products.

Big Train
03-23-2005, 04:49 PM
Simple...3 BILLION P2P downloads a month. That's a whole shitload for a commodity nobody wants...

House of Music?

BigBadBrian
03-23-2005, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
:D

Hey, maybe "under the bed" is where that pesky receipt is...

Nah.....

....but I found the receipt to your old lady in my jeans pocket the other day. Didn't realize she came so cheap. Tell her to pack her shit...she's going back to "dealer." I get a bottle of Jim Beam and an old Monkees LP on trade if I return her before April 1st. :D


:lol:

The Scatologist
03-23-2005, 07:11 PM
The reason why CD sales are fucking down right now, is because you shitbags have barely even promoted a artist of any WORTH in the last 10 years. You put out worthless music, and you expect US to buy it?

STFU and go to Iraq. Doing everything you can my ass, if you were, you would be fighting along side them. But it's just EASY to say that you're doing everything you can isn't it? Words don't require any action dipshit.

kentuckyklira
03-23-2005, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by FORD
The music industry is suffering from poor sales because 95% of what they sell is CRAP, PLAIN AND SIMPLE TRUTH!

The Scatologist
03-23-2005, 09:14 PM
Let's see now, I have over 200 Cds. Out those, maybe like FOUR of them were from the last 10 years.

Big Train
03-24-2005, 02:55 AM
Thats fucking great pal. Ever think maybe public taste has changed? Clearly, the demand for music is still there...3 MOTHERFUCKING BILLION downloads A MONTH guys.

So it isn't the dinosaurs you grew up listening to. So what? People obviously are still very interested in what we are putting out (mainstream) and there are TONS of independent labels, bands etc and alt. means to get their product, so don't hang all your bullshit on one doorstop.

Any argument you can throw at me I can counter. I have been up and down it a million times.

Again, House of Music?

And your "empty words" bullshit was pretty funny..thanks. What the fuck are you doing about anything you believe in? Whining doesn't count...

Warham
03-24-2005, 07:00 AM
They're just trying to find a valid excuse for downloading illegally.

ODShowtime
03-24-2005, 07:47 AM
Originally posted by Big Train
How about you "get" them in the elections...asking to much?

yeah it was considering we didn't own the SecStates and the voting machines. Man you sure can turn a blind eye when it helps your belief system. YOU DON'T LIVE IN A REPUBLIC ANYMORE

Big Train
03-24-2005, 10:31 AM
I can? What about you? Oh that's right, you don't care about it cuz we are fucked anyway...your just here to watch the fireworks. How boring...

Like I have said ALL along, if they thought there was corruption, it would have been VERY simple to prove. Obviously the Dems were entirely too stupid or just had to admit that they could not beat the Republicans. I was more than happy to hear election fraud stuff, but when pressed, nobody did the obvious. It's a done issue now, they have 4 years to get themselves together.

Nickdfresh
03-24-2005, 10:47 AM
Let's get this thread back on track. Is any Neo Con that has never served willing to put his/her ass on the line here in the Reserves/Nat'l Guard? Like your hero Dubya, you might not even get called up after all.

ODShowtime
03-24-2005, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Let's get this thread back on track. Is any Neo Con that has never served willing to put his/her ass on the line here in the Reserves/Nat'l Guard? Like your hero Dubya, you might not even get called up after all.

I think they all know how much they really trust the politicians they voted for and are aware that reserves/national guard means the same a normal enlistment.

ODShowtime
03-24-2005, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
I can? What about you? Oh that's right, you don't care about it cuz we are fucked anyway...your just here to watch the fireworks. How boring...

I'm just here because I don't have a choice. I was disenfranchised on 11/2/04. It's not like I can leave without giving up my life and my occupation.

Nickdfresh
03-24-2005, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Let's get this thread back on track. Is any Neo Con that has never served willing to put his/her ass on the line here in the Reserves/Nat'l Guard? Like your hero Dubya, you might not even get called up after all.

Neo Con **crickets chirping**

academic punk
03-24-2005, 12:37 PM
well, what did you expect? Some of them might be hypocrites, but they're not STUPID...

Big Train
03-24-2005, 12:56 PM
Fuck.....

OK Nick, let's get back on your tired, dead horse of an argument. BTW, I'm still waiting for a valid response (Which OD just confirmed, he is as "full of shit" as we NEO-Cons are). He can't walk away from his life and be "disenfranchised" full time. He has no time to fight the system, he has a career and all that.

Let's all hold ourselves to the same candle, no?

Hypocrites Indeed, Punk...

Nickdfresh
03-24-2005, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
Fuck.....

OK Nick, let's get back on your tired, dead horse of an argument. BTW, I'm still waiting for a valid response (Which OD just confirmed, he is as "full of shit" as we NEO-Cons are). He can't walk away from his life and be "disenfranchised" full time. He has no time to fight the system, he has a career and all that.

Let's all hold ourselves to the same candle, no?

Hypocrites Indeed, Punk...

Uh, no ODSHOW didn't support the War nor the Bush Administration's lies.

Your main excuse (I'm too old) has been removed for not enlisting. The argument is quite fresh given yesterday's headlines.

Big Train
03-24-2005, 01:48 PM
Correct Nick,

But OD is opposed to the war right? Following your logic, he should be out on the front lines picketing in DC because he is so vehemently opposed to it.

Just walking your line here. And no, I was never to old to begin with, nothing I claimed. I'm not a solider and don't pretend to be. I support those who are.

Nickdfresh
03-24-2005, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
Correct Nick,

But OD is opposed to the war right? Following your logic, he should be out on the front lines picketing in DC because he is so vehemently opposed to it.

Just walking your line here. And no, I was never to old to begin with, nothing I claimed. I'm not a solider and don't pretend to be. I support those who are.

He voted his conscience as I am sure you voted yours. Protesting is largely useless in this day and age.

academic punk
03-24-2005, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
Correct Nick,

But OD is opposed to the war right? Following your logic, he should be out on the front lines picketing in DC because he is so vehemently opposed to it.

Just walking your line here. And no, I was never to old to begin with, nothing I claimed. I'm not a solider and don't pretend to be. I support those who are.

This is actually a pretty good retort. Well done.

BTW, I did say "some of them might be hypocrites"... as contentious as our exchanges sometimes get, I wasn't thinking of you specifically when I said it.


That being said, getting on a picket line doesn't pay the bills. Enlisting DOES earn a living. And a nice pension. It'll even pay the bills for you if you get hurt in action. Or it used to. You know, before some of this administartion's policies.

The Scatologist
03-24-2005, 03:08 PM
Sorry for being off topic, but this needs to be said

WELL WTF DID YOU EXPECT BIG TRAIN? You morons always market to the people who don't even KNOW what music is! You think they would spend 15 fucking bucks on a CD when they don't even know what music is? Hell know, casual music fans would just dl shitty music cause it's worthless anyway. Why pay $15 for shit when you can get it free? Personally, though, I would not even download CRAP.


OH WOW! I think i'll sell watered down pop music and shitty hip hop to that kid who'll pretend to be all into it so he can act cool!

OH YEAH WOW! Like he's gonna actually BUY it if he doesn't even really care about music.


Wanna know what the real problem is? It's YOU. You give unfair advantages to SHITTY bands, hell, why do you people even do this anyway? Why can't you just promote REAL fucking bands like Led Zep and Classic Van Halen? Why do you think they're still fucking selling CDs today?


Hell, look at YOU! You're on a fucking David Lee Roth message board. Doesn't that tell you something? Like HMMMM maybe something like, HEY! DAVE KICKS ASS! We need more artists like CVH and DAVE! YOU KNOW! REAL BANDS!

Do you SERIOUSLY fucking see people buying SIMPLE PLAN Cds 10 years from now?

If you're that fucking STUPID, you deserve to go bankrupt so we can have the REAL bands out on top again.

Warham
03-24-2005, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by ODShowtime
I'm just here because I don't have a choice. I was disenfranchised on 11/2/04. It's not like I can leave without giving up my life and my occupation.

If you voted, you weren't disenfranchised.

Warham
03-24-2005, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by academic punk
This is actually a pretty good retort. Well done.

BTW, I did say "some of them might be hypocrites"... as contentious as our exchanges sometimes get, I wasn't thinking of you specifically when I said it.


That being said, getting on a picket line doesn't pay the bills. Enlisting DOES earn a living. And a nice pension. It'll even pay the bills for you if you get hurt in action. Or it used to. You know, before some of this administartion's policies.

I think my 100% disabled father would rather have his back 100% again than getting that disability check from the VA every month.

BigBadBrian
03-24-2005, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by academic punk
This is actually a pretty good retort. Well done.

BTW, I did say "some of them might be hypocrites"... as contentious as our exchanges sometimes get, I wasn't thinking of you specifically when I said it.


That being said, getting on a picket line doesn't pay the bills. Enlisting DOES earn a living. And a nice pension. It'll even pay the bills for you if you get hurt in action. Or it used to. You know, before some of this administartion's policies.

Bullshit. Getting a military retirement, even with a disability kicker from the VA, doesn't make it, and this Administration doesn't have crapola to do with that any more than any previous Administration. It's just a matter of how well a person and their family want to live.

:gulp:

academic punk
03-24-2005, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by Warham
I think my 100% disabled father would rather have his back 100% again than getting that disability check from the VA every month.

I agree. Which is why I did not support this war.

But that is a far different reason than "I'm too old to enlist" or "I've got a family to support". Ultimately, what you've just said - and correct me if I'm wrong - is that the larger cause does not outweigh - for you - the risks and dangers to yourself. And you've had first hand experience at seeing what some of those risks and dangers are.

To be honest, some of the injuries that people sustain, to me, are worse than death. But then we're back in Terri Schiavo territory.

BigBadBrian
03-24-2005, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by Warham
I think my 100% disabled father would rather have his back 100% again than getting that disability check from the VA every month.

Indeed. My prayers and a salute to your Dad. :)

Warham
03-24-2005, 03:28 PM
Thanks Bri.

I respect my father more than any man alive.

He served in the 101st during Vietnam. A draftee too.

:D

academic punk
03-24-2005, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Indeed. My prayers and a salute to your Dad. :)


From me as well.

As much as we disagree, we all owe people like your dad for helping defend a country where we can voice our disagreements, as loudly as we like.

Nickdfresh
03-24-2005, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by Warham
If you voted, you weren't disenfranchised.

What do you mean? Voters are't disenfranchised?:confused:

And my thanks, prayers, and gratitude to your father for serving his country. Unfortunately, I don't believe his country adequately served him.

BigBadBrian
03-24-2005, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
What do you mean?

The only people that are disenfranchised are those that weren't permitted to vote by illegal means. Just because you don't like the results or other voters were disenfranchised doesn't mean you were disenfranchised.

Warham
03-24-2005, 03:44 PM
Amen, Bri.

Nickdfresh
03-24-2005, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
The only people that are disenfranchised are those that weren't permitted to vote by illegal means. Just because you don't like the results or other voters were disenfranchised doesn't mean you were disenfranchised.

But you can vote and still feel alienation, which is disenfranchisement.

Warham
03-24-2005, 03:46 PM
I felt disenfranchisement when Clinton was President.

academic punk
03-24-2005, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by Warham
I felt disenfranchisement when Clinton was President.

That might have just been gas.

Big Train
03-24-2005, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by The Scatologist
Sorry for being off topic, but this needs to be said

WELL WTF DID YOU EXPECT BIG TRAIN? You morons always market to the people who don't even KNOW what music is! You think they would spend 15 fucking bucks on a CD when they don't even know what music is? Hell know, casual music fans would just dl shitty music cause it's worthless anyway. Why pay $15 for shit when you can get it free? Personally, though, I would not even download CRAP.


OH WOW! I think i'll sell watered down pop music and shitty hip hop to that kid who'll pretend to be all into it so he can act cool!

OH YEAH WOW! Like he's gonna actually BUY it if he doesn't even really care about music.


Wanna know what the real problem is? It's YOU. You give unfair advantages to SHITTY bands, hell, why do you people even do this anyway? Why can't you just promote REAL fucking bands like Led Zep and Classic Van Halen? Why do you think they're still fucking selling CDs today?


Hell, look at YOU! You're on a fucking David Lee Roth message board. Doesn't that tell you something? Like HMMMM maybe something like, HEY! DAVE KICKS ASS! We need more artists like CVH and DAVE! YOU KNOW! REAL BANDS!

Do you SERIOUSLY fucking see people buying SIMPLE PLAN Cds 10 years from now?

If you're that fucking STUPID, you deserve to go bankrupt so we can have the REAL bands out on top again.

Off Topic and no logic..your typical Knucklehead/Scat post.

I deserve to go bankrupt? Excuse me, but apply suction to my gential area son. Fucking educate yourself (I know your making the attempt).

We market music to those who we think will buy it. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Not liking it and not buying it are one thing. Liking it and stealing it are another thing entirely.

Where are these magical bands you speak of? We don't sign everyone, just the ones we think will work. There are megatons of indies and vanity labels out there, why aren't they signing these magical bands that will sprinkle pixie dust on the problem.

As for your pricing/nothing good angle, I'd invite you to try out a service like ITunes/Rhapsody or any number of other services, where you can sample the song and PURCHASE ONLY WHAT YOU LIKE. Or if you feel a gamble, go to Wal-Mart/BestBuy/Circuit City etc.. and buy for under 10 bucks (new Mars Volta was 4.99 last week). How much fucking easier can it get?

Again, 3 Motherfucking BILLION downloads a month. Name me another industry where 3 billions units of product are stolen a month. I defy you.

On to the topic,

Adj.
1.
disenfranchised - deprived of the rights of citizenship especially the right to vote
_
Antonyms: enfranchised - endowed with the rights of citizenship especially the right to vote

Synonyms: disfranchised, voteless

Voting means you are NOT disenfranchised.

Nickdfresh
03-24-2005, 05:21 PM
Though you are correct in a strict definition, the word has a wider meaning:

Main Entry: dis·fran·chise

Function: transitive verb
: to deprive of a franchise, of a legal right, or of some privilege or immunity; especially : to deprive of the right to vote

An example would be that blue states receive less federal Homland Security funding than midwestern red states.

academic punk
03-24-2005, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
Off Topic and no logic..your typical Knucklehead/Scat post.

I deserve to go bankrupt? Excuse me, but apply suction to my gential area son. Fucking educate yourself (I know your making the attempt).

We market music to those who we think will buy it. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Not liking it and not buying it are one thing. Liking it and stealing it are another thing entirely.

Where are these magical bands you speak of? We don't sign everyone, just the ones we think will work. There are megatons of indies and vanity labels out there, why aren't they signing these magical bands that will sprinkle pixie dust on the problem.




all good points, but let's get this into a seperate thread, what say?

I'd like to add my two cents (or steal two or BT's)(JOKE!!), but not here...

Nickdfresh
03-24-2005, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by academic punk
all good points, but let's get this into a seperate thread, what say?

I'd like to add my two cents (or steal two or BT's)(JOKE!!), but not here...

IT IS!

http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13620

DLR'sCock
03-24-2005, 05:28 PM
I am for downloading to sample music and look for the rare hard to find shit. At the same time, artists that I dig, and want to support, I will go out and buy their CD. If you support an artist, buy their album to support them.

The music industry, and I mean the BIG SHIT, the big 3 or 4, and Clear Channel and Viacom, have mostly promoted and dumped their millions in promotions into shit. The last major movement of Music as Art to the masses of people through the MAJORS was druing the late 80' up through the early 90's to maybe 95 or 96...


At the same time, I have no sympathy for the music industry at all...fuck em'(and I worked in it for a short time, and have many friends in it, or who were in it as well)....they have been raping the artists for decades, making 90% of the profits for merely acting as a credit card...yeah monopoly and power get abused because it is human nature to be a greedy talentless shit head....





Also, I just want to get back on topic, if you want the US killing Iraqis and Middle Easterners just so you get your way, then sign the fuck up, shut the fuck up, and take a chance at getting shot at yourself...




I have read the endless excuses....and I am not surprised at all, in fact it is so rare when I am here....

Nickdfresh
03-24-2005, 05:30 PM
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! THIS IS NOT THE MUSIC FORUM! POST ALL DOWNLOADING COMMENTS IN THIS THREAD PLEASE:

http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13620

The Scatologist
03-24-2005, 05:37 PM
Ah, but Nick, the current state of Big Train's career is like a mirror into the future about his views of Iraq.


Don't you feel that Big Train's extremely myopic eyesight affects his views on Iraq as well as the music industry?

In other words, Iraq = bad idea. Everything the music industry has been doing, = bad idea.


Oh, and Big Train, I already stated that I have over 200 Cds, and out of those only like 4 were from the last 15 years. So STFU your point is moot.

Warham
03-24-2005, 05:40 PM
That's just your buying habits, not everybody's. Some people like that watered-down wretchedly produced music that's out there right now.

His points are valid.

Big Train
03-24-2005, 05:57 PM
Thank you. I HAVE asked 3-4 times to take it to music, for the record. The need to keep responding is crazy...in music or I am done with subject.

And Scat, Shut the fuck up yourself...learn to debate.

On point, I am done debating this subject. It is beating a dead horse 5 times at this point.

Nickdfresh
03-24-2005, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
Thank you. I HAVE asked 3-4 times to take it to music, for the record. The need to keep responding is crazy...in music or I am done with subject.

And Scat, Shut the fuck up yourself...learn to debate.



I agree.


On point, I am done debating this subject. It is beating a dead horse 5 times at this point.

Also agreed.

Nickdfresh
03-31-2005, 10:26 AM
Army Won't Meet Recruiting Goals

Associated Press
March 24, 2005

WASHINGTON - The Army expects to miss its recruiting goals this month and next and is working on a revised sales pitch appealing to the patriotism of parents, Army Secretary Francis J. Harvey said Wednesday.

Whether that boosts enlistment numbers or not, Harvey said he sees no chance of a military draft.

"The 'D' word is the farthest thing from my mind," the former defense company executive told a Pentagon news conference, his first since becoming the Army's top civilian official last November.

Because of the military manpower strains caused by simultaneous wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, some in Congress have raised the possibility of re-instituting the draft, although there is a strong consensus against it among Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and the military chiefs.

This is the first time the United States has been in a sustained period of combat since the all-volunteer force was introduced in 1973. The Air Force and Navy, which have relatively smaller roles in Iraq and Afghanistan, have no recruiting problems, but the Army and Marines are hard pressed.



The Army missed its recruiting goal for February by 27 percent, and that was the first time it had missed a monthly goal since May 2000. The last time it missed its full-year goal was 1999.

As of Feb. 28, the regular Army was 6 percent below the number of recruits it had expected to sign up at that point in the recruiting year, the Army Reserve was 10 percent off and the Army National Guard was 25 percent off.

The Army is forecasting that all three elements - active, Guard and Reserve - will fall short of their targets for March and April. That means they will have to make up the lost ground this summer - traditionally the best recruiting season - in order to meet their full-year goals.

"I'm clearly not going to give up," Harvey said. "At this stage we still have six months to go" before the recruiting year ends Sept. 30. "I've challenged our human resource people to get as innovative as they can. And even as we speak we've got a number of new ideas."

One of those new approaches is designed to persuade more parents to steer their children to the Army.

"We're going to appeal to patriotism," he said.

That might be done through a new advertising campaign, he said. He also is encouraging more members of Congress as well as senior Army leaders and Army boosters to spend time in local communities touting the benefits of military service.

The Army also has increased the number of recruiters on the street by 33 percent and is offering bigger signup bonuses. Last week the Army announced that the National Guard and Reserve were raising the maximum age for recruits from 34 to 39 in order to expand the pool of potential enlistees. The regular Army could not raise the maximum age without congressional approval.

In a related matter, the Army said more people in the Individual Ready Reserve - those no longer in uniform and not obligated to train - are going to be hearing from the Army in the weeks ahead. The Army has revised upward the number of IRR soldiers it plans to put on active duty, from the 4,402 announced last summer to 4,653. Of those given mobilization orders so far, 370 have failed to report for duty, according to Lt. Col. Pamela Hart, an Army spokeswoman. An additional 2,229 have asked for delays in their reporting dates or for exemptions.

Harvey also disclosed that the Army is "looking at" changing its policy on having more than one sibling in a combat zone at the same time. He did not say how the policy might be altered, and he declined to say more about the subject, other than to indicate that it came up when he visited the Landstuhl Regional Medical Center in Germany, where wounded U.S. troops are treated.

The current policy is that if one of two siblings in a combat zone is killed, the Army will consider removing the remaining one from the combat zone if the surviving soldier or his parents request it, according to spokeswoman Hart. She said she was not aware of any planned change.

Lt. Col. Tom Collins, spokesman for Harvey, said later that Harvey was in the early stages of thinking through the whole issue and that no proposed changes had been developed yet.

www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,FL_army_032405,00.html?ESRC=army.nl

Appeal to their parents' "patriotism?" Are they fucking MAD?! If any recruiter tried to tell me to send my kid to a clusterfuck of a War, I'd tell him to call the fucking White House to appeal to President Bush's "patriotism" and sign hoary little Jenna and Barbara up! They'd be very good for morale!

Phil theStalker
03-31-2005, 10:31 AM
To enlist you no longer need a high school deplum.. deplom... diplomi.. diploma, or need t2o speel t2o oppoor ate thoose hi tek weepons. Kan u speel colaladeral damnage and frendly fire axecidence?


:spank:

ODShowtime
03-31-2005, 07:14 PM
Originally posted by Warham
If you voted, you weren't disenfranchised.

oh ok, then the Iraqi's who voted for Saddam by a 99% margin in 2003 were pretty fucking free too.

It's really not hard to understand what happened this November.

BT, that's a decent point about me protesting against the war. But...there's no way I'm wasting my time and getting my face in the recognition systems at some rally unless we pull a Ukraine and kick gw to the curb.