For You Virginia Residents Only

[knuckleboner]

washington post article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A58163-2005Mar22.html)


Jerry Kilgore, Republican candidate for Governor...



In Arlington, he entered the ballroom to applause and the thunderous booms of the Van Halen song, "Right Now."

is this who we REALLY want for our governor? ;)

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by knuckleboner
washington post article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A58163-2005Mar22.html)


Jerry Kilgore, Republican candidate for Governor...




is this who we REALLY want for our governor? ;)

:eek:


Who knows....Kaine might be a closet Cabo Wabo drinker. ;)

We'll see....I haven't paid much attention to either one of them. :gulp:

[steve]

Northern VA in da howse, dawg! Where my Tysons Corner niggas at?

The Democrats (Gov. Warner and now Kaine) seem to be doing a really good job of claiming the middle ground in VA - a RARITY in American politics these days. So much so, that you've got the Mayor of Leesburg (outer suburbs of D.C.)- a true moderate Republican, running against Kilgore now; and claiming if he loses the Republican nomination, he'll run as an Independent Republican.

Now, as to what that actually MEANS in terms of all the different positions and such, it's too much to think about.

But as far as results, Warner has done an excellent job of building bi-partisan support and claiming the middle.

A Republican friend of mine, voted for Bush, claimed that if Warner were to run for Pres he would strongly consider him - he likes Warner. He didn't like Kerry much.

[knuckleboner]

i went to one of kaine's announcements (for the job, of course.)

he didn't sound like your typical national democrat, that's for sure.


but here's some fodder for you:

no virginia governor in the modern era has won the race without winning fairfax county.

at the same time, fairfax, for the 1st time since LBJ went blue in the 2004 presidential election.

and to even FURTHER muddle up the waters, virginia as a whole, went more red than it was in 2000.

yet, as you pointed out, warner's definitely toed the centrist line and is still relatively popular.

with kaine riding those moderate, rational coattails, it will be a very interesting race.


(assuming, of course, that kilgore's sordid van hagar past doesn't get leaked to the press...)

[steve]

Well - I don't think it's any mystery that Fairfax is important - it's got over a million people and is the most populous jurisdiction.

However, if NOVA and the rest of the state continue to split apart politically, this race could buck that trend.

I can't BELIEVE they outlawed the red light cameras, btw.

Those things were great - everyone noticed a difference in jerks running lights.

The problem was, the folks that made that decision were by and large from more rural areas where they were fed these scare tactics about them invading your privacy, etc. Arrgg...the technology was so focused and transparent and USEFUL - it saved lives! Unlike many parts of Patriot Act...which ironically the same people support.

Go figure.

[knuckleboner]

dude, no kidding on the red lights.

poll after poll after poll shows a strong majority of NOVA residents support the red light cameras.

and the recent legislation was just to keep the NOVA cameras; had nothing to do with the rest of the state. and those yahoos still voted against us.

apparently, the downstate legislators know better what NOVA residents need than the NOVA residents themselves. no offense, BBB...;)



but as for fairfax, we'll see. arlington has long been an outlier in VA politics. the question is, has fairfax now joined you?

[BigBadBrian]

FUCK the goddamn red light cameras!

Get rid of them and put heart-beating cops back out on the street.

I paid my fucking fifty bucks to the traffic - trap here..... now let the goddamn things be gone! :gulp:

[steve]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
FUCK the goddamn red light cameras!

Get rid of them and put heart-beating cops back out on the street.

I paid my fucking fifty bucks to the traffic - trap here..... now let the goddamn things be gone! :gulp:


I thought you didn't want your taxes raised? :D
The cameras are CHEAPER by far than hiring the amout of cops it takes to adequately patrol all those intersections.


As for the traffic trap...you mean you ran a red light?

I'm not so much for the speed traps (as long as the person is not swerving, etc.)...but come on, the red lightcameras really work and help stop accidents.

[DLR7884]

I read an article in the Fairfax Journal a few weeks ago that they took out the red light cameras due to an INCREASE in accidents.

DLR7884
Also, there was a decrease in red light ticket$.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

They've got them here in a few major intersections....

I'm sure they've cut down on people running red lights, but it's obvious as well that some people get paranoid, and are causing rear-enders....

I remember a few days ago, when one of those intersections had a green light and traffic was relatively light, seeing a F-150 hit his BRAKES about 50 feet before the intersection.... Luckily there wasn't anyone very close behind him....

But I believe that these are going away as well in June unless something changes before then....

[PenguinsKID1986]

Franklin County, Moonshine capital of the FUCKING WORLD in the house, see yawl at Martinsville Speedway April 10th. Party in the camp ground thursday, friday, saturday, than race on sunday. and then again no jobs in the area! oh well we got shine to sell! WOOOO

[steve]

The stats said that the number of rear enders went up slightly...
HOWEVER, the number of side collisions, the ones people get F'ed up in, went down DRASTICALLY. So although the total number of accidents stayed the same, they were helping save lives.

To me, this merits keeping them. If one friend or relative or son or daughter is saved because people are scared of running red lights only because it will affect their pocketbook, that is fine by me.

As for a decrease in TOTAL red lights run, that is only recently...after 4 years of the cameras...meaning, the cameras are DETERRING folks from running red lights and killing folks.

[steve]

A Frustrating Finish For Photo Proponents
Area Officials Express Dismay at Decision to Turn Off Traffic Cameras

By Tom Jackman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, March 24, 2005; Page VA08

Vienna Police Chief Robert A. Carlisle went down to Richmond and witnessed the vote himself. He sat in a House Militia, Police and Public Safety Committee meeting last month and watched as state lawmakers eliminated red-light cameras at busy traffic intersections beginning July 1.

"I was just astonished at the decision, especially when we have 70 to 80 percent of Northern Virginians who support the technology," Carlisle said, referring to public opinion polls by AAA-Mid-Atlantic. "And you have 12 people in Richmond decide you can't do this. I think it's unfortunate."
Carlisle may have been astonished, but he wasn't completely surprised. The committee in the House of Delegates had been signaling for months, if not years, its intention to abolish the 10-year experiment allowing 10 local governments -- eight in Northern Virginia -- to place automatic surveillance cameras above intersections to take photos of vehicles running red lights.

The program, which was approved in 1995 but began at various times in different jurisdictions, was set to expire July 1 unless lawmakers voted to keep it. But many rural lawmakers said they believed the surveillance cameras infringed on personal liberties.

At Monday's Board of Supervisors meeting, board Chairman Gerald E. Connolly (D) said the General Assembly rejected the renewal of the red-light program "as if it was an invitation to return to Soviet communism." The lawmakers, Connolly said, "looked at the issue from an ideological perspective rather than a public safety perspective."

Legislators from Northern Virginia endorsed the continuation of the programs but were a minority on the House committee that killed the project on Feb. 18. Republicans from Goochland, Warren and Grayson counties and the city of Salem wanted no part of the cameras.

"My concern with photo red has always been that we're starting to get into the area with our technology when we start to abridge fundamental rights," said Del. C.L. "Clay" Athey Jr. (R-Warren), including "the right to be left alone."

Six of the eight Northern Virginia jurisdictions have used the cameras in recent years, and were unanimous in wanting to continue snapping photos of red-light violators and sending the photos to the drivers' homes with a notice asking them to pay a $50 fine. Slightly more than three-fourths of those who received the photos paid the fine, a recent state study showed.

Police say it wasn't about the money. In fact, three of the six governments that implemented the camera program -- the City of Alexandria, Fairfax County and the Town of Vienna -- lost tens of thousands of dollars annually because they did not collect enough revenue to cover costs. The other three -- Arlington County, Fairfax City and the City of Falls Church -- made tiny profits. Loudoun County and the Town of Herndon were permitted to use cameras but chose not to.

The hope was that the surveillance cameras would save lives and prevent injuries. Although proving a negative -- that fatal car wrecks didn't happen because of the cameras -- is difficult, police said they believe the cameras were having an impact.

"We were hoping it would reduce serious crashes and red-light violations, and I think we accomplished that," said Alexandria police spokeswoman Amy Bertsch.

Arlington County Police Chief Doug Scott noted that the cameras not only allowed him to deploy officers elsewhere, but established 24-hour enforcement at some of the county's most dangerous intersections.

"Now I'll have to reallocate [officers] for selective enforcement" at those intersections, Scott said. "We can't do it with the time and frequency that the camera does."

But opponents of the program said the presence of the red-light cameras actually caused more rear-end crashes from drivers trying to stop too quickly in order to avoid being photographed.

Several studies supported that claim, in particular one by the nonpartisan Virginia Transportation Research Council that was released in January. Crash statistics from intersections in four Northern Virginia jurisdictions, with numbers from before and after the cameras were installed, showed that crashes at those intersections actually rose after the cameras were turned on.

In Fairfax County, the research council study found, rear-end crashes increased at intersections with cameras.

But the study also found a decrease in crashes in which a driver ran a red light and struck another car at an angle, which often results in more serious injuries and deaths. The "angle crashes" decreased between 24 and 33 percent, and injuries from angle crashes dropped by similar amounts.

Two federal studies of 132 intersections in seven counties and cities around the country came to a similar conclusion: There were more rear-end crashes and fewer angle crashes at intersections with surveillance cameras. Maryland and the District are also among the 16 states using the monitoring technology.

One of the studies, which were both funded by the Federal Highway Administration, looked at the economic impact of the two types of crashes and found that the cameras were a net financial benefit because the more costly angle crashes were reduced. The cost analysis included not only insurance and government expenses, but also loss of productivity caused by car crashes.

"The guy hitting you on the side is speeding, because he's trying to beat the red light," said Eduard Zaloshnja, one of the study's authors. "The hit from behind can shake you pretty well, but you walk out of the thing without much damage. . . . Our data shows that [angle] crashes are much more expensive."

The cameras created a "crash reduction benefit" of about $38,000 a site per year, the study concluded. "Even if modest, this economic benefit is important," the engineers wrote, "since, as operated today, the red-light camera systems pay for themselves" through the fines -- though that's not true in Alexandria, Fairfax County and Vienna. "This economic benefit can be increased through careful selection of the sites to be treated . . . and program design," the engineers said.

One way police officials said they thought they were having an impact was the drop in the number of tickets issued from the surveillance cameras. Three of the four jurisdictions in the Virginia study saw significant decreases: Alexandria issued 46 percent fewer citations between the first few months of the cameras and a recent three-month period; Fairfax County saw a 23 percent drop.

"Red-light photo enforcement has proven to be an effective tool in changing driver behavior," Fairfax traffic Capt. Jesse F. Bowman said. "Our efforts to reduce crashes, prevent injuries and save lives have suffered a setback with the elimination of this proven technology."

The Virginia study, which was commissioned by the state secretary of transportation because of the General Assembly vote, recommended that legislators continue the "photo-red" program. The study also said the jurisdictions that use the cameras should find ways to reduce their net costs and continue gathering crash data and other statistics to study the cameras' effectiveness.

And Carlisle, the Vienna chief, said the arguments about liberty that he heard in Richmond can be turned around.

"When we look at caring about people's liberty," Carlisle said, "we often forget the liberty of the people who go through that green light and get creamed."

[Nickdfresh]

I was stationed in Northern Virginia while in the Army about ten years ago. I used to drive from Backlick Rd. (by the Mobil Refinery) to Telegraph Rd. A couple years later, I saw a friend, who was from the Buffalo area, that was also stationed nearby me. She was still down there. While I saw her when she was on leave, she told me Telegraph Rd., a historical area since the first telegraph line was laid there, was now another six-lane highway. I just can't take that traffic man.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I was stationed in Northern Virginia while in the Army about ten years ago. I used to drive from Backlick Rd. (by the Mobil Refinery) to Telegraph Rd. A couple years later, I saw a friend, who was from the Buffalo area, that was also stationed nearby me. She was still down there. While I saw her when she was on leave, she told me Telegraph Rd., a historical area since the first telegraph line was laid there, was now another six-lane highway. I just can't take that traffic man.

Damn, that's my old backyard too bro !!

I lived in the Saratoga subdivision of Springfield for about a year in '91 when I was stationed in the Pentagon ....

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Va Beach VH Fan
Damn, that's my old backyard too bro !!

I lived in the Saratoga subdivision of Springfield for about a year in '91 when I was stationed in the Pentagon ....

I lived in Springfield around that time actually. I was in the Powderbrook area.

[steve]

Here's a comprimise...

R's don't want DC to become a state since that would mean 2 more D Senators and 1 more D rep.

So here's what we do instead...

NOVA, DC, and MD suburbs form one new state - 5 million people:
The State of Columbia.

VA moves from potential swing state to solid R state.
MD moves from solid D state to swing state.
CB becomes new D state.

Then, we can use our tax rev. to build the metro lines/new Potomac bridges/roads we need and keep our cameras and such.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Va Beach VH Fan
They've got them here in a few major intersections....

I'm sure they've cut down on people running red lights, but it's obvious as well that some people get paranoid, and are causing rear-enders....

I remember a few days ago, when one of those intersections had a green light and traffic was relatively light, seeing a F-150 hit his BRAKES about 50 feet before the intersection.... Luckily there wasn't anyone very close behind him....

But I believe that these are going away as well in June unless something changes before then....

There is an intersection here in VA Beach, the one I got nabbed at, that gets people EVERY traffic cycle simply because its a short light at an extremely busy intersection. Wait there for ten fucking minutes for four cycles and people have a tendency to push the envelope on yellow lights. The city knows this and that's why the camera is aimed at that particular intersection/angle. It's a moneymaker. Nobody can tell me any different. FUCK THE CAMERAS!!!!

[steve]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
There is an intersection here in VA Beach, the one I got nabbed at, that gets people EVERY traffic cycle simply because its a short light at an extremely busy intersection. Wait there for ten fucking minutes for four cycles and people have a tendency to push the envelope on yellow lights. The city knows this and that's why the camera is aimed at that particular intersection/angle. It's a moneymaker. Nobody can tell me any different. FUCK THE CAMERAS!!!!

Sounds like the problem is VA Beach, not the cameras themselves.
Here, the only places I ever see cameras are at dangerous intersections; and they don't speed up the lights to trap folks at them.

The cameras are great - you can mis-use any technology.
A spork is a dangerous weapon.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
There is an intersection here in VA Beach, the one I got nabbed at, that gets people EVERY traffic cycle simply because its a short light at an extremely busy intersection.

Lemme guess, S. Independence and Va. Beach Blvd.....

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Originally posted by steve
Sounds like the problem is VA Beach, not the cameras themselves.
Here, the only places I ever see cameras are at dangerous intersections; and they don't speed up the lights to trap folks at them.

The cameras are great - you can mis-use any technology.
A spork is a dangerous weapon.

The three intersections (I believe) that they're installed in are the 3 most dangerous in town....

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Va Beach VH Fan
Lemme guess, S. Independence and Va. Beach Blvd.....

Nope...


Kempsville turning onto Indian River going toward I-64. Short damn green arrow with a buttload of traffic. :eek:

[FORD]

Those kind of "revenue enhancement" scams exist in every town in every state. If it's not cameras, it's obscured speed limit signs behind bushes or trees or whatever.

It's even worse in small towns out here, especially after federal and state budgets were slashed. It's the only way they can raise funds locally.

[steve]

Exactly - a STOP SIGN can be mis-used as well.
But when placed correctly, it GREATLY enhances safety.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Nope...


Kempsville turning onto Indian River going toward I-64. Short damn green arrow with a buttload of traffic. :eek:

That was my 2nd guess... That was the intersection I was talking about before with the F-150....

Of course, there are only 3 total (Holland and Rosemont being the other)....

[knuckleboner]

Originally posted by FORD
Those kind of "revenue enhancement" scams exist in every town in every state. If it's not cameras, it's obscured speed limit signs behind bushes or trees or whatever.

It's even worse in small towns out here, especially after federal and state budgets were slashed. It's the only way they can raise funds locally.


well, we're not a small town, here. and we are losing money on the cameras. which is fine, since we view them as a safety tool.

as steve correctly pointed out, rear-end, fender-benders are up. side-impact collosions (which cause the more serious injuries) are down. the number of citiations has declined, apparently since people are starting to not run those lights where there are cameras.

and absent a miracle (governor's amendment to a bill and then general assembly passing it in the veto session; which won't happen) all red light cameras in the commonwealth will disappear on july 1st.

[Nickdfresh]

You know, voting for a Republican Govenor did not help New York:

George Padickhead:
http://www.nidhin.com/wwe/pataki.jpg

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
[B]You know, voting for a Republican Govenor did not help New York:



Keep your New York ass out of a Virginia thread or we'll call out the Militia. You got your own thread on your Guv'nur.

:gun:

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Keep your New York ass out of a Virginia thread or we'll call out the Militia. You got your own thread on your Guv'nur.

:gun:

I lived in traffic land, I have the right! I was part of the UNION occupation force.

[steve]

Let's summarize...
So the bottom line is, Big Bad Brian has poor motoring skills - so he's glad the cameras are gone to see him plowing through fruit markets like a senile old man on a feeding tube.
;)

JK.

As for me personally, I'll be setting up my own camera inside Jennifer Garner's toilet....in addition to petitioning Gov. WArner and future Gov. KAINE to bring them back.:rolleyes:

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by steve
Let's summarize...
So the bottom line is, Big Bad Brian has poor motoring skills - so he's glad the cameras are gone to see him plowing through fruit markets like a senile old man on a feeding tube.
;)

JK.

As for me personally, I'll be setting up my own camera inside Jennifer Garner's toilet....in addition to petitioning Gov. WArner and future Gov. KAINE to bring them back.:rolleyes:

Toilet?:eek: I think I'd prefer the Jennifer Garner shower cam.