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DavidLeeNatra
04-03-2005, 09:20 AM
I'm a bit tired of all the fighting and discussions about the site and would like to put up a topic which is music related again...

dave did six full length solo albums and each had a very different direction musically...in which category would you put them and what do you think why dave changed that much?

would he'd been more successful in sale # if he kept the music in the EEAS direction?

discuss...

guwapo_rocker
04-03-2005, 02:12 PM
I definitely think that if Dave had continued in the direction of

EEAS and ALAE he could have sustained more of his popularity and

sold more records than he did.

Having said that, if Dave is not concerned about sales and just wants

to play what he wants to play, hey, if he can afford to do it, good on

Him.

I would have preferred more like EEAS and ALAE though personally.

fanofdave
04-03-2005, 02:18 PM
i think it became apparent that Dave didn't care to
be an "industry mainstream" and remained true to his
own creative desires.

i always thought dave should have devoted an entire
album to rhythm and blues. he definitely has the voice
and attitude; the diamond one has got the soul....

DavidLeeNatra
04-03-2005, 03:23 PM
I remember him saying that when bands say they go "back to the roots" with their album it means "the record companies goes nuts because our last album sold shit"...I guess ALAE (which is my favorite solo album) was dave's "back to the roots"-album and then he said "fuck it, I play whatever the fuck I want"...

TwoFoolsAMinute
04-03-2005, 11:31 PM
I think Dave's fall from grace was less about musical direction, after all, Skyscraper sold like crazy, and more about losing his band. People could forgive him losing Van Halen, could have been anything, but when he lost Vai and Sheehan, it made him look to be the bad guy. Nothing against any of his other bands, just led the general public to stop taking roth seriously. After ALAE, I think the record companies told him his career was over, and he decided to do whatever he wanted.

DavidLeeNatra
04-04-2005, 06:16 AM
Originally posted by TwoFoolsAMinute
I think Dave's fall from grace was less about musical direction, after all, Skyscraper sold like crazy, and more about losing his band. People could forgive him losing Van Halen, could have been anything, but when he lost Vai and Sheehan, it made him look to be the bad guy. Nothing against any of his other bands, just led the general public to stop taking roth seriously. After ALAE, I think the record companies told him his career was over, and he decided to do whatever he wanted.

I agree...not that the music got worse...the bands were no longer bands but back up musicians without any personality...and the ALAE-live band I saw sucked...

guwapo_rocker
04-04-2005, 02:22 PM
I think things might have been different had Jason Becker not been stricken with ALS.

Jason Becker is an American hard rock guitarist who formed the band Cacophony in the late '80s with fellow guitarist Marty Friedman and recorded two albums with it, Speed Metal Symphony (1987) and Go Off! (1988). He made the instrumental solo album Perpetual Burn in 1988. In 1989, he left Cacophony and was hired by David Lee Roth to replace Steve Vai in his backup band, appearing on the album A Little Ain't Enough (1991). Shortly after he joined Roth's band, however, he was diagnosed with Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (ALS), better known as Lou Gehrig's Disease, a rare degenerative illness that causes paralysis. Nevertheless, he succeeded in completing a second solo album, Perspective, released on his own label in 1996. Raspberry Jams, an album of demos, followed in 1999, and in 2001, through the intercession of Eddie Van Halen, Perspective was given major-label release on Warner Bros. Records. ~ William Ruhlmann, All Music Guide
Written by William Ruhlmann

Link.... (http://music.yahoo.com/ar-262470-bio--Jason-Becker)

DavidLeeNatra
04-04-2005, 03:28 PM
good find GR! I thought becker was done with the ALAE record. I remember that dave used "hired guns" since becker had to leave and I think that was some mistake

academic punk
04-04-2005, 03:33 PM
Can we stop talking Dave and get back to slagging one another?

Jesus...you'd almost think this was a site dedicated to Dave or something...

academic punk
04-04-2005, 03:47 PM
That being said - I would've liked to have seen dave continue building on the vision he had with Eat 'Em. That band kicked fucking ass. Listen to what they accomplished on "Shyboy" - un-fuckin-real interplay between Sheehan and Vai.

I remember at the time Vai saying that if you think that sounds good, just wait, that they're only scratching the surface of what they'll be able to accomplish.

The came Skyscraper. If "The Bottom Line!!!" was supposed to build on the legacy of "Shyboy"...I'm sorry, it's been years sicne I've listened to that album, and it STILL pisses me off!! Even comparing the opening moments...I still remember EXACTLY where I was the first time I heard the conversation between Dave and Vai's talking guitar...and, sadly, I still remember exactly where I was the first time I heard that damn "plink plink plink" of "Knucklebones...the most anonymous, devoid of personality opening riff of any album of dave's career to that point.

Skyscraper may have sold, but it also completely alienated the core fan base, WHO DID NOT SHOW UP FOR THE CONCERTS, especially when Sheehan left before the tour ever began, and Vai departed after the tour ended.

ALAE was a solid performance, but it suffered from too many songs and the tragedy of Becker's illness. In a way, it WAS a return to his roots, but the lyrics were more sophisticated and more akin to YFLM's singer-songwriter vibe, than EEAS's "I'm a rock star!" material.

Whether Dave regrets any of this, I doubt it. He's still very proud of the commercial success of "Just Like Paradise" (and still plays it in concert), and one of the reasons Vai decided to leave was b/c Dave halfway through the Skyscraper tour took away Vai's solo section in concert, a move that Dave surely realized would alienate Vai and prompt his resignation).

What I would have REALLY likied to have seen was more of his albums translated into SPANISH!!! SONRISA SALVAJE KICKS ASS!!!

DavidLeeNatra
04-04-2005, 04:45 PM
I still say that skyscraper was the worst move he did musically...I can't say that ALAE suffered from too many songs. I like nearly all of them and don't consider any as a "filler". they grove and have a real rock-vibe...skyscraper didn't have it that much. it wasn't "raw", was way overproduced and left you a bit "cold"...good music, but not the kind of music dave stood for...

Roguesgirl
04-04-2005, 06:54 PM
Now this is an excellent thread. :)

IMO, Dave's solo albums were automatically compared to Classic Van Halen. At least by the general public. That had to be tough.

EEAS did the best because some songs sounded like CVH. I think that if you are a CVH fan, you are going to say yes, he should have stayed in that direction.

I personally like the oddball stuff that Dave has done. I love the way he moves from one genre to the next and always keeps us guessing.

I love EEAS, but I also love YFLM.

TwoFoolsAMinute
04-04-2005, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by academic punk

Skyscraper may have sold, but it also completely alienated the core fan base, WHO DID NOT SHOW UP FOR THE CONCERTS, especially when Sheehan left before the tour ever began, and Vai departed after the tour ended.


I saw the Skyscraper show at Reunion Arena in Dallas and it was a packed house. Tons of Roth fans there. I agree looking back now it seems strange in the scheme of things, but I really think it was a viable album in its time. I think you evaluate this record in hindsite. It was different, but it still rocked and Dave was a popular as ever. I don't believe Skyscraper hurt his career in any way as far as the music goes. It's easy to look back now and say, "well, that's different than his other stuff, so it must be the problem," but the only thing that hurt dave about Skyscraper was losing his band and letting the people believe that he fucks up bands, and therefore must be the one that fucked up Van Halen.

If Becker had been able to stay on, and they could have churned out a number of records as a solid band, it might have kept him from fading into obscurity. He could have a career similar to say, Ozzy Osbourne, but I think people were reluctant to take Dave seriously after the EEAS band split. I even think that was the plan with the DLR band. To knock out some records with a band, but Lowry split immediately and that fell apart.

I'm not saying it's totally wrong. His lack of a particular musical style has contributed to his downfall as time has gone by. It's why Diamond Dave was no pleasant surprise. It's why YFLM got virtually no airplay, and maybe by the time DLR band came around it was too late. It rocked, but didn't have the backing. Plus, I think it's Dave's worst vocal performance on any of his solo efforts, but the band was great.

I sure wish he'd try again. I don't think the Diamond Dave album was much of a try.

academic punk
04-04-2005, 11:37 PM
No, I remmeber very clearly sitting there for weeks trying to get into Skyscraper and having to eventually say, "I've loved everything up to this point right away. I was astonished by the intro to Yankee Rose. I feel over laughing from the second I heard the first lyrics of I'm Easy. Tobacco Road - major fuckin' kick ass.

Skyscrpaer contained Knucklebones - mediocrity at its most mediocre, and Hot Dog and a Shake - the STOOOPIDEST thing of Dave's career. Even the title track - it's engineering 101: oh, here the lyrics says "static", so let's make the vocals goa ll static-y. etc etc Blech.

The only things I really found successful on Skyscraper were Damn Good and Hina (which I love).

DavidLeeNatra
04-05-2005, 07:28 AM
Originally posted by academic punk
No, I remmeber very clearly sitting there for weeks trying to get into Skyscraper and having to eventually say, "I've loved everything up to this point right away. I was astonished by the intro to Yankee Rose. I feel over laughing from the second I heard the first lyrics of I'm Easy. Tobacco Road - major fuckin' kick ass.

Skyscrpaer contained Knucklebones - mediocrity at its most mediocre, and Hot Dog and a Shake - the STOOOPIDEST thing of Dave's career. Even the title track - it's engineering 101: oh, here the lyrics says "static", so let's make the vocals goa ll static-y. etc etc Blech.

The only things I really found successful on Skyscraper were Damn Good and Hina (which I love).

same for me...when I first listened to it I wasn't "touched" at all...I got into it after a while but it's the album I don't play a lot these days except for a few tunes I put on my mp3 for running...but I still listen to ALAE frequently...

secrets
04-05-2005, 09:25 AM
I think he should have stuck with the hard rocking style that was on EEAS throughout.

Skyscraper was good but no comparison to EEAS at all.

That band has so much potential. But I think Vai is as much to blame as anyone for the break up, he is just not a team player IMO.

Vai needs to be at the centre of attention and Dave got in the way of his ego.

Classic
04-05-2005, 12:24 PM
Speaking of Vai, I've never heard those amazing songs he and Sheehan did in '87 that could have made Skyscraper the most hard-rocking album of all time.

Stillwell
04-12-2005, 03:05 PM
While sitting on the bowl taking a tasty shit, I realized that I've been playing more Roth solo than Van Halen for the last 6 months. This has allowed me to appreciate the wham bam thank you Mam approach of the solo albums and also the creative deficits as well.

Eat Em and Smile is a four star classic - No doubt about that! BUT, there was something missing from the formula of the album. It needed more salt, whisky, and heroin. Dave simply didn’t do a good job bringing together a new band that matched his GENIUS. “Wah? Shock! I’m appalled! Dave did an excellent job. He got Stevie Vai and Bill She-he-han!!” Vai is good, but he was the equivalent of gravity, grounding Dave’s charisma with tame riffs and solos. When I listen to VH1 through 1984, it sounds like there’s an orgy taking place behind the other side of the CD. Eat Em just sounds like a cheap bachelor party with 35 yr old strippers. Yeah, there’s nakedness, but do you really wanna handle those floppy tits for too long? Hmmm...

Skyscraper took the shins out of Dave’s career. He panicked when 5150 outsold Eat Em and decided to play on Hagar’s stylistic turf - bad move. “Stand up”? No thanks, I’ll take a seat.

A Little Ain’t Enough is the most delicious woman in the Roth collection. Delicious, bountiful, sultry, sexy, and luscious. It pops the cherry of your ears and makes you into a little audio-slut. If the CD hole was big enough, I’d make love to this album. This brought back the VH orgy sound that we haven’t heard since 1984. If Roth’s first two albums were like this sexy bitch, he would have buried Van Hagar.

Your Filthy Little Mouth. Toned down and proper, but still a bitchin record. She’s My Machine is pure attitude.

DLR Band - See ALAE.

Diamond Dave, I have heard it.

academic punk
04-12-2005, 03:18 PM
I just put YFLM in the CD tray again this morning, for the first time in ages, hit shuffle, and on came "Cheatin' Heart Cafe" followed by "Sunburn".

Man, talk about shifting directions! LOVE it!!!

spmusicplyr
04-15-2005, 05:22 PM
everybody talks about "if he didnt lose becker...if becker werent sick".....the real question is, "how did dave fill the void?"
or what did he do to fix it.

DavidLeeNatra
04-16-2005, 06:53 AM
Originally posted by Stillwell
While sitting on the bowl taking a tasty shit, I realized that I've been playing more Roth solo than Van Halen for the last 6 months. This has allowed me to appreciate the wham bam thank you Mam approach of the solo albums and also the creative deficits as well.

Eat Em and Smile is a four star classic - No doubt about that! BUT, there was something missing from the formula of the album. It needed more salt, whisky, and heroin. Dave simply didn’t do a good job bringing together a new band that matched his GENIUS. “Wah? Shock! I’m appalled! Dave did an excellent job. He got Stevie Vai and Bill She-he-han!!” Vai is good, but he was the equivalent of gravity, grounding Dave’s charisma with tame riffs and solos. When I listen to VH1 through 1984, it sounds like there’s an orgy taking place behind the other side of the CD. Eat Em just sounds like a cheap bachelor party with 35 yr old strippers. Yeah, there’s nakedness, but do you really wanna handle those floppy tits for too long? Hmmm...

Skyscraper took the shins out of Dave’s career. He panicked when 5150 outsold Eat Em and decided to play on Hagar’s stylistic turf - bad move. “Stand up”? No thanks, I’ll take a seat.

A Little Ain’t Enough is the most delicious woman in the Roth collection. Delicious, bountiful, sultry, sexy, and luscious. It pops the cherry of your ears and makes you into a little audio-slut. If the CD hole was big enough, I’d make love to this album. This brought back the VH orgy sound that we haven’t heard since 1984. If Roth’s first two albums were like this sexy bitch, he would have buried Van Hagar.

Your Filthy Little Mouth. Toned down and proper, but still a bitchin record. She’s My Machine is pure attitude.

DLR Band - See ALAE.

Diamond Dave, I have heard it.

excellent!

Roguesgirl
04-16-2005, 07:10 AM
Originally posted by Stillwell

A Little Ain’t Enough is the most delicious woman in the Roth collection. Delicious, bountiful, sultry, sexy, and luscious. It pops the cherry of your ears and makes you into a little audio-slut. If the CD hole was big enough, I’d make love to this album. .

:cool:

Loons The Great
12-25-2006, 08:19 PM
Bumpah