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BigBadBrian
04-12-2005, 04:12 PM
The war on Wal-Mart
Bill Murchison


April 12, 2005


Wal-Mart's chief executive went on the attack the other day against the critics of the world's largest retailer. Just what is it, he wanted to know, that some noisy, nosy folk have against free choice?


H. Lee Scott Jr. didn't put the matter nearly so bluntly, but he certainly might have, if the spirit had so moved him.

Offering middle-class America the widest selection of goods at the lowest prices that market position and hard negotiating can achieve has become a form of oppression: That would seem to be the core of the hardening case against Wal-Mart.

Who pleads that case? The United Food and Commercial Workers Union, backed by no-growthers and take-your-progress-and-shove-it types who want the chain's expansion halted.

Weary of watching his company denounced as a grinder-down of the working class and a despoiler of the environment, Scott, in a meeting with the news media, called Wal-Mart "great for America." He extolled the chain's approach to business. He defended wage rates and benefits programs as fair. He wanted, not unreasonably, to know why "people would line up for jobs that are worse than they could get elsewhere, with fewer benefits and less opportunity."

Good question. We'll see what kind of answer it gets. What is heartening is to sniff the prospect of good, open combat between those who presume to judge where Americans should shop and those who say to these same Americans: It's up to you!

Possibly my first task here is to declare relative impartiality regarding Wal-Mart. Haven't shopped there or at a Sam's Club in 10 years or more. Couldn't tell you offhand where to find the nearest Wal-Mart. Can't think of anything I'd want to do there if I knew where to go. Don't really enjoy shopping, come to think of it!

Well, that's my own business. Others make it their business to trade at Wal-Mart or Sam's Club as often as humanly possible. Is it my business to discourage them, then, through trying to block the building of new stores or agitating for the overthrow of the present employer-employee relationship? I'd say on the whole, no. Though others clearly wouldn't.

The whole merit of free markets is supposed to be customer choice. If you don't feel like trading with Neiman Marcus, why, go on over to Wal-Mart. Or trade both places, depending on price, convenience and specific needs. The call is up to the customer -- theoretically.

We know "the customer" isn't some paragon of wisdom and good judgment. He's not even one thing -- he's everybody. You let "him" choose what suits him best.

Ah! But only (according to the union) if he shops where the union has a foothold. It might well mean higher prices, but, if so, tough. The United Food and Commercial Workers Union's take on our national needs is more acute than our own -- if you don't mind letting a union decide what's best for you.

So with the union's inference that, even though 1.5 million people (worldwide) freely accept Wal-Mart's terms of employment, a little coercion by the union on wages and benefits would make their lives happier. Maybe. On the other hand, if the union's terms preclude profit levels that afford employment to 1.5 million people, employment is sure to shrink or slow down.



The Wal-Mart-busters, when you get down to it, aren't unduly respectful of free choice, whether exercised by shoppers or workers. They've got their own ideas, which, in their own minds, take precedence over the ideas and notions of others.

Did anyone really foresee American liberalism -- the creed, broadly speaking, of the Wal-Mart-busters -- becoming snobbish to this degree? Well, yeah, actually. From the 1930s, union organizers set out to hogtie large companies, thus restricting such latitude as those companies enjoyed to adapt, experiment and reach out.

Then, on Wal-Mart, the unions ganged up with the no-growthers -- an odd combo, indeed, given labor's constant need for new jobs. You could call it Howard Dean's America. If you wanted to call it America.

Nickdfresh
04-12-2005, 08:00 PM
Wal Mart, destroying America one town at a time!;)

Stillwell
04-12-2005, 08:09 PM
Close down Walmart? Where ever will the toothless hags and illegal Mexicans go?

Big Train
04-13-2005, 02:55 AM
The toothless hags and illegals will just continue to cut your grass and be your "date" for the evening...

Wal Mart IS oppressive. It's a faulty argument to say Freedom of Choice, when the choice is piss poor because it can't compete with the competition who have a store full of loss leaders.

As a Republican, I have no problem with Wal Mart operating a successful business. I do have a problem when that causes more problems than it is worth for the overall economy. Do you think the P&G merger last month would have happened for any other reason than the manufacturers trying to hold the line against a company that either carries you under their terms or not at all? This is at the point of affecting the economy at a macro level, as the multi billion dollar merger means lost jobs and further consolidation. Which completes the vicious cycle of not being able to afford to shop anywhere else because you don't make enough and the other probably went out of business.

Cathedral
04-13-2005, 03:17 AM
Wally World is a joke, and they still carry 'Live Without A Net'....

Warham
04-13-2005, 07:10 AM
I shop at Wal*Mart from time to time, and even have them as one of my accounts, but I don't really like them too much.

Stillwell
04-13-2005, 07:23 AM
Originally posted by Big Train
The toothless hags and illegals will just continue to cut your grass and be your "date" for the evening...

Wal Mart IS oppressive. It's a faulty argument to say Freedom of Choice, when the choice is piss poor because it can't compete with the competition who have a store full of loss leaders.

As a Republican, I have no problem with Wal Mart operating a successful business. I do have a problem when that causes more problems than it is worth for the overall economy. Do you think the P&G merger last month would have happened for any other reason than the manufacturers trying to hold the line against a company that either carries you under their terms or not at all? This is at the point of affecting the economy at a macro level, as the multi billion dollar merger means lost jobs and further consolidation. Which completes the vicious cycle of not being able to afford to shop anywhere else because you don't make enough and the other probably went out of business.

Cry me a river and, while your at it, drown in it.

Nickdfresh
04-13-2005, 07:42 AM
Originally posted by Warham
I shop at Wal*Mart from time to time, and even have them as one of my accounts, but I don't really like them too much.

So do I, honestly, though I try to avoid the place. There so much crap and white trash in the aisles, it's tough to get through!

Big Train
04-13-2005, 10:17 AM
Stop being such a sensitive bitch stillwell...and pick better dates.

academic punk
04-13-2005, 10:21 AM
Whatever else you say...come on, THREE DOLLARS FOR A REFRIDGERATOR AND FREEZER SET!!!

Stillwell
04-13-2005, 06:01 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
Stop being such a sensitive bitch stillwell...and pick better dates.

Ever thought of becoming a musician? Word has it you play a marvelous skin flute. Hey, my legs are open, take your best shot on this instrument!

ODShowtime
04-13-2005, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
Do you think the P&G merger last month would have happened for any other reason than the manufacturers trying to hold the line against a company that either carries you under their terms or not at all? This is at the point of affecting the economy at a macro level, as the multi billion dollar merger means lost jobs and further consolidation.

good point

ODShowtime
04-13-2005, 07:14 PM
They're puttin' one in right by my parents house and it pisses me off.

conversly, the one within walking distance of my new house kicks ass!

academic punk
04-13-2005, 07:55 PM
THREE DOLLARS!!! FOR A FRIDGE AND FREEZER!!! COME ON!!!

Nitro Express
04-13-2005, 10:33 PM
A real war on Wal-Mart is not doing business with Wal-Mart. Walmart uses their huge buying power to extort suppliers into doing whatever Walmart says. Price is the bottom line. Negotiating with Wal-Mart is a joke. They name a price and that's it, but they promise to buy a huge amount. Well known brandnames cut their quality on items sold to Wal-Mart and the result is shitty merchandise. Wal-Mart has also tried to eliminate tarrifs on Chinese made shit and has helped run US manufactures out of business or the company still exists, but the manufacturing is simply done in China.

Funny, Wal-Mart seems to be a favorite store of the US middle class but those are exactly the people who Wal-Mart responsible for indirectly destroying their manufacturing and middle management jobs.

Big Train
04-14-2005, 12:30 AM
Originally posted by Stillwell
Ever thought of becoming a musician? Word has it you play a marvelous skin flute. Hey, my legs are open, take your best shot on this instrument!

Your homosexual come ons are boring and add zero to the conversation.

The Scatologist
04-14-2005, 08:49 AM
They just built a Wal-Mart over a old native hawaiian grave site. (isn't that illegal in the mainland if they did it over Native American graves?)


There was like a ton of protests from the Native Hawaiian groups. I walked in there once, and it just creeped me out. Never going in again.

BigBadBrian
04-14-2005, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by Big Train
Your homosexual come ons are boring and add zero to the conversation.

I was thinking the same thing, BT.

FORD
04-14-2005, 09:33 AM
Originally posted by The Scatologist
They just built a Wal-Mart over a old native hawaiian grave site. (isn't that illegal in the mainland if they did it over Native American graves?)


There was like a ton of protests from the Native Hawaiian groups. I walked in there once, and it just creeped me out. Never going in again.

Guess they never saw "Poltergeist"?

That's entirely fucked that they built it on a burial ground. But it's typical of Hell Mart. If they don't care about the living who are negatively impacted by their corporate fascism, why would they care about the dead.

Aside from the embezzling defense contractors tied to the BCE for the last 6 decades, Wal Mart has to be one of the most vile corporations on the planet.

academic punk
04-14-2005, 10:32 AM
THREE DOLLARS!!! FOR A BRAND-NAME FRIDGE AND FREEZER!!! IF LOVING THIS IS WRONG, I DON'T WANNA BE RIGHT!!!

bueno bob
04-14-2005, 01:23 PM
Fuck Wal-Mart.

Wal-Mart = Cheap Plastic Shit.

I worked there for a brief spell back in '92-'93, and after I found out what I learned about that company, I wouldn't work there again, I won't shop there...I won't even walk in the front fucking doors. Those cocksuckers can fuck right off. Period.

Wal-Mart can go rot.

BigBadBrian
04-14-2005, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
So do I, honestly, though I try to avoid the place. There so much crap and white trash in the aisles, it's tough to get through!

How much black trash crap is in the aisles? :rolleyes:

BigBadBrian
04-14-2005, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by bueno bob
Fuck Wal-Mart.

Wal-Mart = Cheap Plastic Shit.

I worked there for a brief spell back in '92-'93, and after I found out what I learned about that company, I wouldn't work there again, I won't shop there...I won't even walk in the front fucking doors. Those cocksuckers can fuck right off. Period.

Wal-Mart can go rot.

Still, they have good deals on underwear and socks. How can you argue with that?

They also had Scott's fertilizer for my lawn on sale last week. Better price than Home Depot or Lowe's by two bucks.

:gulp:

vanzilla
04-14-2005, 04:37 PM
I think the bottom line is that most of America would sell their soul for a bargain. I'm just as guilty of it as the rest.

ODShowtime
04-14-2005, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by academic punk
THREE DOLLARS!!! FOR A BRAND-NAME FRIDGE AND FREEZER!!! IF LOVING THIS IS WRONG, I DON'T WANNA BE RIGHT!!!

I thought you were being facetious. Did they really have a F/F for $3? I could use a place for more brew...

FORD
04-14-2005, 07:45 PM
There's no way it was really that cheap. You couldn't even buy one from Goodwill or the pawn shop for that price.

In fact, here is the Wal Mart refrigerator page (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product_listing.gsp?cat=90791&path=0%3A101849%3A103150%3A90654%3A136430%3A112986 %3A90791)

Little ones (under the desk beer cooler type) start at $64.

Not bad, but I wouldn't buy it there. Target or K-mart would have to have one around the same price.

FORD
04-14-2005, 07:59 PM
Target (http://www.target.com/gp/browse.html/602-7486328-0256612?index=tgt-mf-mv&node=10835351&rank=price&x=6&y=11) Little ones are $5 more.

SweetSecrets
04-14-2005, 08:21 PM
Americans without Walmart?!!! What would we do?!!! Oh no!!

Could we survive?!!!

(sarcasm)

The Scatologist
04-14-2005, 08:24 PM
BTW, Apparently, the old native hawaiian remains are being stored in some fucking closet type thing above ground in the store.

BTW, did ya know that Hawaii is like a supernatural hot spot? We have so many ghost stories it ain't even funny. :D

SweetSecrets
04-14-2005, 08:41 PM
Walmart.....

It's a "Love/Hate" relationship for me.

I Hate...

1) trying to find the few little items I'm looking for in a store the size of 3 football fields.

2) realizing what I need is on the opposite fucking side of the store after I've wasted 15 minutes of my life trying to find it myself without asking the cheerful (sarcasm) Walmart folk for help.

3) having to ask the cheerful (ummm......NO!) Walmart folk for help.

4) not that I dislike having to walk...just hate doing it in Walmart.

5) how small businesses in small towns have been completely consumed by the "Guaranteed Lowest Price."

6) parking 80 miles away from the doors to buy three things to save a dollar. WTF? Why do we do that?

7) standing in line in the "20 items or less" line for FUCKING AGES!...then switching to a new line and watching your old line suddenly start moving as soon as you leave. TYPICAL!

8) I LOVE CHILDREN, but, Geez, parents.!...GET CONTROL of your supposive little angels! Call Super Nanny or something!

I Love...

1) low prices (I'm a teacher who is still in college and is not getting paid) ....A.K.A: BROKE!

2) the fact that they give nice old people jobs (Although, sometimes this can be bad.....I'm a softy, though. It's good to see papaw and mamaw tell me, "Have a nice night, darlin!"

3) 24 hours! This just rocks! I love rolling up there half dead in my pj's at 3 AM with the munchies ;) to buy a frozen pizza (Although I haven't done this since freshman year in college).

5) Not having to care about what I look like when I shop there. There is ALWAYS someone to stand next to there who makes you feel absolutely gorgeous!

6) socks and cotton panties :D

Nickdfresh
04-14-2005, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
How much black trash crap is in the aisles? :rolleyes:

By crap, I mean the huge displays that cause human traffic to funnel into each other.

As far as 'black trash,' I live in the 'southtowns' of Buffalo. Only affluent black families are permitted here; and then, only maybe, they won't get stopped by the police every other day. A sad fact.

academic punk
04-14-2005, 10:34 PM
THREE FRIGGIN' DOLLARS!!! YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BEAT THAT ANYWHERE!!!

Nitro Express
04-15-2005, 05:27 AM
Remember the name brand item you buy at Walmart may be different than that same name brand in another store. Walmart buys on huge volume and demands a low price. Manufactures sometimes cut corners on the Walmart production run to make up the difference. One example is Honeywell radiator heaters. The ones sold at Walmart have cheaper switches and wheels than the ones sold a Fred Meyer. I know, the one I bought at Walmart had wheels that didn't fit right and a switch broke. I returned the thing and bought the same exact heater at Fred Meyer. It had a lot nicer wheels that fit properly and better switches.

kentuckyklira
04-15-2005, 06:23 AM
WalMart is losing big money here in Germany. Good thing that is.

Never bought anything there and presumeably never will!

Stillwell
04-15-2005, 07:53 AM
Originally posted by Big Train
Your homosexual come ons are boring and add zero to the conversation.


Originally posted by BigBadBrian
I was thinking the same thing, BT.

Like pages in a porn mag, neo conservatives stick together!

FORD
04-15-2005, 08:57 AM
Originally posted by Stillwell
Like pages in a porn mag, neo conservatives stick together!

And usually for the same reason (just ask Jeff Gannon)

Big Train
04-15-2005, 09:49 AM
Damn you are boring. I'd rather discuss the issues than entertain your homosexual thoughts. Guess that's not why everybody's here. Oh well...could be why I'm starting to be here less.

academic punk
04-15-2005, 10:05 AM
THREE!!!! DOLLARS!!!!

FRIDGE!!! FREEZER!!! WITH WARRANTY!!!

FRIGGIN' THREE!!!!!

SweetSecrets
04-15-2005, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by Nitro Express
. One example is Honeywell radiator heaters. The ones sold at Walmart have cheaper switches and wheels than the ones sold a Fred Meyer. I know, the one I bought at Walmart had wheels that didn't fit right and a switch broke. I returned the thing and bought the same exact heater at Fred Meyer. It had a lot nicer wheels that fit properly and better switches.

I have one of those Honeywell radiator heaters, and it is tough as nails. I got it from Walmart. It doesn't seem to be having any problems.

(Not that I support Walmart or anything)

ODShowtime
04-15-2005, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by Nitro Express
Remember the name brand item you buy at Walmart may be different than that same name brand in another store. Walmart buys on huge volume and demands a low price. Manufactures sometimes cut corners on the Walmart production run to make up the difference.

I hadn't thought about that before, but it makes perfect sense. Most Walmart orders would be large enough to warrant a seperate production run with some "tweaking" to cut costs. hmmm

I might have to think twice about that $3 fridge.

I had noticed a lot of walmart products sucked ass, but to think of two versions of the same product just sounds so shady.

oddly enough, I about to embark on a walk that will take me right by the old place.

Nitro Express
04-16-2005, 01:05 AM
I find Europeans tend to be more quality aware than Americans are right now. I think Americans are a little more guliable to brandname marketing hype and a so called good deal.

I actually buy quite a bit of goods from Europe. A lot of stuff from Italy, some from France, and Germany of course. People can make fun of the French but they make kick ass teflon coated cookware and killer mountaineering stuff. Italian made stuff seems to be getting better. Now with the Euro being strong against the dollar, it makes it all expensive.

I do buy American if it's good quality, but sadly we are just having our shit made in Mexico or Asia.