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BigBadBrian
04-15-2005, 06:48 PM
Iraqis Find Graves Thought to Hold Hussein's Victims
By ROBERT F. WORTH
The New York Times

AGHDAD, Iraq, April 14 - Investigators have discovered several mass graves in southern Iraq that are believed to contain the bodies of people killed by Saddam Hussein's government, including one estimated to hold 5,000 bodies, Iraqi officials say.

The graves, discovered over the past three months, have not yet been dug up because of the risks posed by the continuing insurgency and the lack of qualified forensic workers, said Bakhtiar Amin, Iraq's interim human rights minister. But initial excavations have substantiated the accounts of witnesses to a number of massacres. If the estimated body counts prove correct, the new graves would be among the largest in the grim tally of mass killings that have gradually come to light since the fall of Mr. Hussein's government two years ago. At least 290 grave sites containing the remains of some 300,000 people have been found since the American invasion two years ago, Iraqi officials say.

Forensic evidence from some graves will feature prominently in the trials of Mr. Hussein and the leaders of his government. The trials are to start this spring.

One of the graves, near Basra, in the south, appears to contain about 5,000 bodies of Iraqi soldiers who joined a failed uprising against Mr. Hussein's government after the 1991 Persian Gulf war. Another, near Samawa, is believed to contain the bodies of 2,000 members of the Kurdish clad led by Massoud Barzani.

As many as 8,000 men and boys from the clan disappeared in 1983 after being rounded up in northern Iraq by security forces at the command of Ali Hassan al-Majid, widely known as Chemical Ali. It remains unclear, however, how the victims ended up in the south.

Investigators have also discovered the remains of 58 Kuwaitis spread across several sites, including what appears to be a family of two adults and five children who were crushed by a tank, Mr. Amin said. At least 605 Kuwaitis disappeared at the time of the first gulf war, and before the latest graves were discovered, fewer than 200 had been accounted for, he added.

A smaller site was discovered near Nasiriya earlier this week. Arabic satellite television showed images of residents digging up remains there.

Mr. Amin declined to give the exact locations of the graves, saying it could endanger witnesses to the massacres and anyone working at the sites.

One obstacle to exhuming bodies has been an absence of DNA labs and forensic anthropologists in Iraq, Mr. Amin said.

In the aftermath of Mr. Hussein's fall, thousands of Iraqis overran mass grave sites, digging for their relatives' remains with backhoes, shovels, even their bare hands. A number of sites were looted, making identification of victims difficult, said Hanny Megally, Middle East director for the International Center for Transitional Justice.

The American occupation authority, after some initial hesitation, began classifying grave sites, and international teams began traveling to the sites in 2003 to conduct assessments or exhumations. But toward the end of 2004, rising violence led nearly all the teams to abandon their work.

Only one site has been fully examined, a grave of Kurdish victims in northern Iraq, Mr. Megally said. That work was overseen by the Regime Crimes Liaison Office, which is gathering evidence for the trials of Mr. Hussein and his deputies.

The interim Iraqi government, working with the United Nations, has drawn up plans for a National Center for Missing and Disappeared Persons that would have authority over all aspects of the process, from exhumations to providing assistance to victims' families.


Link (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/15/international/middleeast/15graves.html?ei=5065&en=c85059724268b94e&ex=1114228800&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print&position=)

Seshmeister
04-15-2005, 08:22 PM
8000?

That was a morning's work for our bombers...

BigBadBrian
04-16-2005, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
8000?

That was a morning's work for our bombers...


It's a sad state of affairs when you are apologizing for Saddam. Shameful. Go back to the pub. Oh I forgot, you're probably already there. :gulp:

kentuckyklira
04-16-2005, 12:48 PM
Where does the so called "coalition of the willing" (aka coalition of the bribed and blackmailed) buries the thousands of Iraqis they´ve slaughtered!

BigBadBrian
04-16-2005, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by kentuckyklira
Where does the so called "coalition of the willing" (aka coalition of the bribed and blackmailed) buries the thousands of Iraqis they´ve slaughtered!

Maybe they'll cremate them. The Germans are good at building the ovens.

Or maybe they can just stick them in all the underground bunkers the German companies built for Saddam's forces.

Fucking moron.

:gulp:

kentuckyklira
04-16-2005, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Maybe they'll cremate them. The Germans are good at building the ovens.

Or maybe they can just stick them in all the underground bunkers the German companies built for Saddam's forces.

Fucking moron.

:gulp: We just built bunkers, you guys supplied ingredients and technology for chemical weapons, aka WMDs!

BigBadBrian
04-16-2005, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by kentuckyklira
We just built bunkers, you guys supplied ingredients and technology for chemical weapons, aka WMDs!

Would you REALLY like the statistics for that? Hmm?

Seshmeister
04-16-2005, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
It's a sad state of affairs when you are apologizing for Saddam. Shameful. Go back to the pub. Oh I forgot, you're probably already there. :gulp:

It's a sad state of affairs when our countries lose the high ground.

BigBadBrian
04-16-2005, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
It's a sad state of affairs when our countries lose the high ground.

High ground? Was letting a certain dictator in a certain Middle Eastern country slaughter his people, often with poison gas, the "high ground?"

LoungeMachine
04-16-2005, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
High ground? Was letting a certain dictator in a certain Middle Eastern country slaughter his people, often with poison gas, the "high ground?"

Certainly not when you consider who supplied it.:rolleyes:

We have our work cut out for us overthrowing all of the world's dictators and occupying their countries while killing tens of thousands........

or are we just sticking to those mideast oil reserves?:cool:

BigBadBrian
04-16-2005, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Certainly not when you consider who supplied it.:rolleyes:



The fucking Dutch and Belgians should be ashamed. :mad:

LoungeMachine
04-16-2005, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
The fucking Dutch and Belgians should be ashamed. :mad:

The Sisters and those strawberry waffle guys?:D

4moreyears
04-17-2005, 10:52 PM
Certainly not when you consider who supplied it.

We have our work cut out for us overthrowing all of the world's dictators and occupying their countries while killing tens of thousands........

or are we just sticking to those mideast oil reserves?

Have I missed something? When did we kill tens of thousands?

Nickdfresh
04-17-2005, 11:42 PM
Originally posted by 4moreyears
Have I missed something? When did we kill tens of thousands?

Yeah, apparently you did...Tough to see through those bullshit speckled rose-colored glasses! Check the 'Shock and Awe' tour fool!

vanzilla
04-18-2005, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
High ground? Was letting a certain dictator in a certain Middle Eastern country slaughter his people, often with poison gas, the "high ground?"

Good point. Why aren't we going to send troops to Sudan and put an end to the genocide going on over there? That's what we're built for right? Spreading Democracy?

Your Toby Keith CD is skipping.

OWNED.

LoungeMachine
04-18-2005, 10:21 PM
Originally posted by 4moreyears
Have I missed something? When did we kill tens of thousands?

No one is this stupid.

Turn off FAUX news and learn something:rolleyes:

BigBadBrian
04-18-2005, 10:44 PM
Originally posted by vanzilla
Good point. Why aren't we going to send troops to Sudan and put an end to the genocide going on over there? That's what we're built for right? Spreading Democracy?

Your Toby Keith CD is skipping.

OWNED.


OWNED?


You haven't presented one logical argument yet. To anyone.

Go back to the sheep pen and keep Katy in control...the job suits you. :rolleyes:

BTW, if we were going in the Sudan, shouldn't we enlist the help of our UN buddies first? Hmm? We wouldn't want to forget all of those stellar people, would we?

vanzilla
04-19-2005, 01:30 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
OWNED?


You haven't presented one logical argument yet. To anyone.

Go back to the sheep pen and keep Katy in control...the job suits you. :rolleyes:

BTW, if we were going in the Sudan, shouldn't we enlist the help of our UN buddies first? Hmm? We wouldn't want to forget all of those stellar people, would we?

Why do I feel like I'm throwing frisbees to paraplegics when I debate you?

And you're right - We're the United States of America. We don't need the UN when it comes to invading countries. We're great at blowing shit up. It's putting the pieces back together that's been tougher this time around...and if you check your facts Brian - W did seek UN help in the rebuilding of Iraq.

Here, I checked them for you.

Published in the Asbury Park Press 9/22/04
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
UNITED NATIONS -- President Bush, defending his decision to invade Iraq, urged a vast assembly of world leaders yesterday to stand united with the country's struggling government and said the proper response to spreading violence "is not to retreat, it is to prevail."

Often at odds with the United Nations on Iraq, Bush stood before a hushed General Assembly at the opening session of the 191-nation meeting six weeks before the presidential election.

The U.N. appearance gave Bush a world stage on which to demonstrate his foreign policy leadership and defend his Iraq policies, a sensitive political issue because of the relentless violence and the deaths of more than 1,000 American soldiers.

Standing before many allies who refused to send forces to Iraq, Bush said, "There is no safe isolation from terror networks or failed states that shelter them, or outlaw regimes or weapons of mass destruction. Eventually there is no safety in looking away, seeking the quiet life by ignoring the struggles and oppression of others."


After the speech, Bush brushed aside a bleak National Intelligence Estimate of Iraq's future that spoke of possibilities ranging from tenuous stability to civil war. Bush characterized the scenarios developed by senior U.S. intelligence officials as "life could be lousy, life could be OK, life could be better. And they were just guessing as to what the conditions might be like."

BigBadBrian
04-19-2005, 07:50 AM
Originally posted by vanzilla
Why do I feel like I'm throwing frisbees to paraplegics when I debate you?



Gimme a break. You're not even in my league little boy. Go back to mommy's tit.

kentuckyklira
04-19-2005, 07:53 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
OWNED?


You haven't presented one logical argument yet. To anyone.

Go back to the sheep pen and keep Katy in control...the job suits you. :rolleyes:

BTW, if we were going in the Sudan, shouldn't we enlist the help of our UN buddies first? Hmm? We wouldn't want to forget all of those stellar people, would we? French and German troops are already there.

BigBadBrian
04-19-2005, 07:54 AM
Originally posted by kentuckyklira
French and German troops are already there.


After the fact...... a lot of good THAT did.... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

kentuckyklira
04-19-2005, 07:54 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Gimme a break. You're not even in my league little boy. Go back to mommy's tit. Says a college boy from Buttfuck, West Virginia!

BigBadBrian
04-19-2005, 08:06 AM
Originally posted by kentuckyklira
Says a college boy from Buttfuck, West Virginia!

I'm not from West Virginia.

I doubt that there's a place called Buttfuck either. If there is, however, I'm sure you would have found it. :D

4moreyears
04-19-2005, 06:26 PM
Buttfuck Kentucky. Home of the toothless mullet wearing rednecks.