"Talk of the devil" VS "Live evil"

[Mr Badguy]

Which a;bum of live Sabbath do you prefer?

Dio murdering Ozzy songs or Ozzy`s Van Halen style back up band`s updated versions of Sabbath classics?

I love both albums, but I`m going for "Talk of the devil".

It was the first Ozzy album that I ever got and the first time I heard a lot of the Sabbath songs on there.

Even now I still think some of the versions on there are better than the Sabbath originals as they really sound electric live.

It sounds like an amazing, atmospheric gig also, with Ozzy at his best.

[Figs]

I used to have both (mine was called Speak of the Devil - maybe that's the US version) on vinyl. I'd go with Ozzy's, especially Sabbath Bloody Sabbath. I liked Live Evil too, I happened to see that tour.

[Anonymous]

It's tuff to say... although Ozzy is indisputably a grate vocalist and THE Black Sabbath frontman, I happen to like Dio's version of Sabbath best. 'Heaven and Hell' and 'Dehumanizer' are my favorite Sabbath albums. Of course, it's very different when Dio is singing Ozzy's songs.

So, in conclusion to a poorly formed analysis, I'll have to say that both albums are grate. Get them both along with 'Sabbath Bloody Sabbath' a very high-quality bootleg released by Kiss the Stone Records - same company that released Pantera's 'Live Beyond Driven' - featuring Dio on vocals, and the 'Reunion' album, where Ozzy delivers.

Cheers! :bottle:

[Mezro]

I will go with "Speak of the Devil" because of how wasted Ozzy was. That thing still makes me laugh when I listen to it. But...

...I love "Live Evil" and enjoy the shit out of Dio Sabbath. But Dio wasn't wasted so I still have to give the nudge to Ozzy.

Mezro...but Brad Gillis is a chunk of shit...go to his site and check out the shitty animation...stroke that neck Bad Brad...

[bueno bob]

Brad Gillis wrecked "Speak of the Devil" for me. Sabbath without Tony Iommi is NOT Sabbath, and therefore should not be played by anybody. I am very particular about that. Nobody can play a Sabbath song the way Tony Iommi can, not Randy Rhoads, not Jake E Lee, not Zakk Wylde - NOBODY.

Ozzy sounded great, and "Speak of the Devil" was a funny ass album to listen to him banter on - and of course hearing "Never Say Die" live was a hoot.

The downside to "Live Evil" is the muddled production job. Dio brought a very dark, almost gothic vocal presentation to Ozzy's solo stuff...gothic's not really the right word, but it sounded much more evil than Ozzy ever sang it; but even that fit, considering the image that Ronnie was bringing to Sabbath anyway. The other downslide is that it doesn't have enough material on it, and a lot of the Tony Iommi soloing, while MUCH fun to listen to, just eats up tape space and isn't really necessary.

At the end of it, "Speak of the Devil" is just too paper thin for my tastes and listening to Brad Gillis Van Halen-ize the old Sabbath sound is a real killjoy.

My vote is for "Live Evil".

[Seshmeister]

I liked Brad Gillis on Speak of the Devil.

I don't like Dio so this is a no brainer for me.

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
I liked Brad Gillis on Speak of the Devil.

I don't like Dio so this is a no brainer for me.

Compared to Iommi?? :confused:

OK... :)

[Seshmeister]

Well Dio is like Hagar to me in that his voice irritates me and distracts me from the music but actually in any case I find Iommi tedious to be honest.

I give him credit for starting it all but that doesn't mean I have to listen to him.

Brad Gillis reworking the solos was a welcome breath of fresh air.

I'll just stand back now while you all brand me as a heretic...:)

Cheers!

:gulp:

[Bill Lumbergh]

Speak of the Devil, hands down. I am a HUGE Iommi fan, but I hardly find myself EVER listening to that album. Oh and the only Black Sabbath I'll ever acknowledge is the Ozzy version(though I like Dio). Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules are Iommi solo projects in my mind........

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by Bill Lumbergh
Speak of the Devil, hands down. I am a HUGE Iommi fan, but I hardly find myself EVER listening to that album. Oh and the only Black Sabbath I'll ever acknowledge is the Ozzy version(though I like Dio). Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules are Iommi solo projects in my mind........

Well, shit, everything post Never Say Die is a solo Iommi project, virtually...if you wanna get right down to the nitty gritty of it, anyway. But Black Sabbath/Tony Iommi...to me, the names are synonomous with each other, both mean the same thing so far as I'm concerned.

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
...I'll just stand back now while you all brand me as a heretic...:)

Cheers!

:gulp:

HERETIC!!

;)

It's cool, Iommi to me is God...same way as Eddie still is to some people...

[rustoffa]

Iommi is the man as far as Sabbath goes, but Gillis is a pretty good guitar player.

I thought he did a pretty good job on Speak Of The Devil considering the shoes he was trying to fill.

The cover of "Atomic Punk" he and Fee Waybill did is a good listen.

[Hardrock69]

I hated Gillis's style. Gary Moore was going to do those gigs, but he accidentally slammed his hand in a car door on the way to the airport, and that ruined it.

I personally do not like listening to Dio sing stuff Ozzy recorded originally. I like to listen to old Sabbath songs with the original lineup.

But of course Heaven & Hell, Mob Rules and Dehumanizer are classic metal albums (I mean ULTIMATE CLASSIC metal albums), and so I prefer to hear Dio singing that stuff.

:eek:

Brad Gillis and FEE WAYBILL doing ATOMIC PUNK? Where on earth did this occur?

And what the heck has Fee been up to lately? He did some kind of Tubes tour in the late 90s playing clubs and theaters, but that is all I know.....

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by Hardrock69
Brad Gillis and FEE WAYBILL doing ATOMIC PUNK? Where on earth did this occur?

One of those shitty tribute albums that has-been's throw together for any other band over the weekends...what was it, the Little Guitars tribute? I think...

[FORD]

Gotta agree with Lord Vader on this one. Gillis doesn't come close to matching Iommi on the Sabbath classics. Of course, I remember hearing at the time that he had a whole three days to learn the songs (excepting Paranoid, Iron Man, and Children of the Grave, which they had been playing on tour already) and that what Gillis was actually playing was Sarzo's bass lines - on his guitar.

Also, in terms of production, Live Evil was just a better sounding record, though let's face facts.... Dio's vocal was almost completely overdubbed. I've heard Sabbath boots from that tour and he didn't really sound like that.

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by FORD
Dio's vocal was almost completely overdubbed. I've heard Sabbath boots from that tour and he didn't really sound like that.

Exactly why Ronnie was pissed about and what led to the split - Geezer and Tony accused Ronnie of turning up the mix in the dead of night on his vocals, which Ronnie absolutely denied...Tony later on admitted it was a mistake on his part to do so, but as to how Ron's vocals got that way...ghost in the machine, maybe...

[Panamark]

In any Ozzy v DIO contest, Ozzy singing Ozzy Sabbath wins..

Speak of the Devil !! (As its known in Oz)

[Golden AWe]

Yup, it's OZZY over DIO any day...

This was not the issue here, but DAHM that "Past Lives"-double cd is amazing...superb stuff...Sabbath at it's best. The alternate lyrics for "Killing yourself to live" are quite funny too...

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by Golden AWe
Yup, it's OZZY over DIO any day...

This was not the issue here, but DAHM that "Past Lives"-double cd is amazing...superb stuff...Sabbath at it's best. The alternate lyrics for "Killing yourself to live" are quite funny too...

The absolute live Sabbath peak, without a doubt.

The second disc was actually an NEMS pressing from 1980 (Live at Last); I was really happy to actually have an official version of it at long last.

"Come on, baby, gonna fuck all night..."

Classic Ozzy indeed :)

[Terry]

Gillis did a decent enough job considering the circumstances of how he landed the gig, and how many songs he had to learn in a relatively short amount of time.

Got a full-length Ozzy 1982 live DVD as part of a trade (think it was originally aired on MTV), and Gillis displayed a fair representation of Randys licks. Always too much vibrato bar wanking in his style when he was left to his own devices.

Speak of the Devil will always have an edge over Live Evil in terms of the classic Sabbath tunes because they are just unsuited for Dio to sing; anyone other than Ozzy and they just don't sound right.

Besides, after the classic version, my next fave Sab lineup was the Born Again one. Saw them in 1983. Geezer Butler's bass was so loud it was literally caving my chest in.

First I'd heard of Gary Moore being in line before Gillis to replace Randy on the tour. Probably wouldn't have been a good fit, though.

[Golden AWe]

Originally posted by bueno bob
The absolute live Sabbath peak, without a doubt.

The second disc was actually an NEMS pressing from 1980 (Live at Last); I was really happy to actually have an official version of it at long last.

"Come on, baby, gonna fuck all night..."

Classic Ozzy indeed :)

yup...and which song was it, that I don't remember, but I laugh every time I hear "ARE YOU HIGH? ARE YOU HIGH? SO AM I!!!"

:D

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by Golden AWe
yup...and which song was it, that I don't remember, but I laugh every time I hear "ARE YOU HIGH? ARE YOU HIGH? SO AM I!!!"

:D

Oh man, I'd have to bust it out and listen...I think it's right before the start of Hole in the Sky, I'd have to double check that.

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by bueno bob
Oh man, I'd have to bust it out and listen...I think it's right before the start of Hole in the Sky, I'd have to double check that.

Yup.

[Golden AWe]

I'd like to see that OZZY on the weekly TV...not the homersimpson we see at "The Osbournes"

[Mr Badguy]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Brad Gillis reworking the solos was a welcome breath of fresh air.


I`m with you on this one, Sesh.

I think he interpreted the Sabbath stuff a lot better than Zakk, who just squeals the fuck over everything he ever plays.

And you have to remember that at that time, the whammy bar and tapping style of playing was in vogue for any metal guitarist.

Also the Sabbath stuff probably wasn`t regarded as highly as it is now and Gillis just played it in his own style, rather than the "tribute band" style reproductions you get today.

[bueno bob]

There's a HELL of a lot of OUTSTANDING doom metal bands out there today that shouldn't be forgotten about...

Cathedral, Electric Wizard, High On Fire, sHeavy, Candlemass, Debris Inc., and all the older school 80s guys...Sleep, Saint Vitus, Count Raven, Trouble...

All of them kiss the ground the Iommi walks on...back in the early 80s, the sound wasn't so unadaptable to interpretation like it is now - but with the influx of so many great doom metal bands that have sung the praises of Tony Iommi and Sabbath, in today's world...it's very hard to do any sort of different interpretation of Sabbath and be taken legitimately.

[DrMaddVibe]

I don't like either live recording.

I echo sentiments of Sabbath w/ Dio. I think their strongest material is with him on "Heaven & Hell" and "Mob Rules". Saw them on these tours and loved every minute of it.

Saw Ozzy on a couple of tours with Randy and it rocked too. Ozzy had fun with him.

Saw Sabbath all together again and it wasn't the same. The sound was good, but the stage sucked and it looked like they were just going through the motions...I dunno...bad night maybe.

I'd rather listen to Inferno: Last in Live hands down!

[ALMOSTsaved]

I actually love "Speak Of The Devil." Ironically it was my introduction to Black Sabbath even though it was solo Ozzy. After hearing the album, I HAD to have the Sabbath versions. I was only twelve years old at the time.

[STF]

Live evil

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by Hardrock69
I hated Gillis's style. Gary Moore was going to do those gigs, but he accidentally slammed his hand in a car door on the way to the airport, and that ruined it.


That's not the story as Ozzy or I remember it. Then again we were probably both drunk...:)

At the time I read that Ozzy said that he called Moore after Randy died and GM told him in no uncertain terms to fuck off. Ozzy apparently was really pissed off and was quoted as saying Moore had a face like a welders bench.

That said Ozzy did then appear on a Gary Moore album singing a song called Led Clones taking the piss out of Kingdom Come so maybe it was all exagerated by the media.

Cheers!

:gulp:

[Three Lock Rock]

Neither are as good as Live Hallelujah!

[Stillwell]

Many of albums of Ozzy’s albums have merit, but they are tiring to listen to. John Osbourne is a shallow talent with zero vocal ability and non-existent writing capabilities. He is all image and when it comes to a live album, image doesn't cut it with this home boy. Ronnie James fucking Dio, on the other hand, is the real deal. He has it all: vocals, lyrics, passion, and an unrelenting work ethic. Live, he is unmatched. When it comes to live albums, who but the very top tier can match him? Surely not Sharon's husband.

I like Live Evil. Dio has done better live albums, but look at the material and the people he was working with on this project? Most of the original Sabbath songs are specifically tailored for Ozzy's vocal limitations. As a result, Dio-sung standards such as Black Sabbath don't set the world on fire. Nevertheless, Dio takes songs like N.I.B. and Iron Man and makes them his own property. He made them so evil it was as delicious as cup cakes. Then, you have the superior material of Heaven and Hell, Sign of the Southern Cross and Neon Knights blazing through your tin speakers! Where can you go wrong bruddahs!!

Too bad, Geezer Butler is such a bitch that he sabotaged this album and Sabbath. Geezer is a nest haired fucker who back stabbed Tony and destroyed Sabbath. As a result of Geezer’s delusions, the production suffered bad, but isn’t as apparent on the remastered editions.



Originally posted by bueno bob
The downside to "Live Evil" is the muddled production job. Dio brought a very dark, almost gothic vocal presentation

Bill Ward bitched about Ronnie making Sabbath "too evil." What is Sabbath supposed to be? The Scorpions?

[FORD]

Originally posted by Terry


First I'd heard of Gary Moore being in line before Gillis to replace Randy on the tour. Probably wouldn't have been a good fit, though.

Ozzy's exact words on that subject :"It's true that I asked Gary Moore to join, but he's a total cunt. He's an ugly, nasty cunt!"

Gillis wasn't the first "replacement" for Rhoads though. There was another guitarist named Bernie Torme who was hired about 3 weeks after Randy's death who finished that leg of the tour.

[VanJay011379]

They're both fake live albums anway. I heard "Speak of the Devil" was done in the studio with music from a soundcheck.

[Mr Badguy]

Originally posted by VanJay011379
They're both fake live albums anway. I heard "Speak of the Devil" was done in the studio with music from a soundcheck.

Yeah, but isn`t every live album?

I like the sound of "Talk of the devil" (as it`s called in the UK).

It sounds the way I think a four piece band should sound.

You can here each instrument and the singer as clear as a bell.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by Stillwell
Many of albums of Ozzy�s albums have merit, but they are tiring to listen to. John Osbourne is a shallow talent with zero vocal ability and non-existent writing capabilities. He is all image and when it comes to a live album, image doesn't cut it with this home boy. Ronnie James fucking Dio, on the other hand, is the real deal. He has it all: vocals, lyrics, passion, and an unrelenting work ethic. Live, he is unmatched. When it comes to live albums, who but the very top tier can match him? Surely not Sharon's husband.

I like Live Evil. Dio has done better live albums, but look at the material and the people he was working with on this project? Most of the original Sabbath songs are specifically tailored for Ozzy's vocal limitations. As a result, Dio-sung standards such as Black Sabbath don't set the world on fire. Nevertheless, Dio takes songs like N.I.B. and Iron Man and makes them his own property. He made them so evil it was as delicious as cup cakes. Then, you have the superior material of Heaven and Hell, Sign of the Southern Cross and Neon Knights blazing through your tin speakers! Where can you go wrong bruddahs!!

Too bad, Geezer Butler is such a bitch that he sabotaged this album and Sabbath. Geezer is a nest haired fucker who back stabbed Tony and destroyed Sabbath. As a result of Geezer�s delusions, the production suffered bad, but isn�t as apparent on the remastered editions.




Bill Ward bitched about Ronnie making Sabbath "too evil." What is Sabbath supposed to be? The Scorpions?


Shouldn't you be posting at www.imasturbatewithdwarfs.com?

Fuck Dio and his rainbows, goblins, magic cunts and dragons.

He's another Sammy Hagar riding on someone elses coat tails. Ozzy can write a damn good melody, has charisma and his first two solo albums are some of the best rock music ever recorded.

Cheers!

:gulp:

[Stillwell]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Shouldn't you be posting at www.imasturbatewithdwarfs.com?

Fuck Dio and his rainbows, goblins, magic cunts and dragons.

He's another Sammy Hagar riding on someone elses coat tails. Ozzy can write a damn good melody, has charisma and his first two solo albums are some of the best rock music ever recorded.

Cheers!

:gulp:

Talk like that to me again and I'll knock your tooth out homie.

Ozzy doesn't WRITE anything. Without Geezer Butler and Bob Daisley writing his crap he'd be in England digging graves, robbing houses, or dropping the soap for his cell mate. Ozzy is so talentless he even has Dave Grohl writing his shit.

Charisma? Is that's what consider the slobbering, stuttering, mumbling, and fumbling he's been doing for years? He is a glorified dyslexic who’s biggest musical challenge is properly reading the lyrics off the Teleprompter during his concerts. Without his hands firmly clutched to Sharon’s tit, his career would’ve capsized faster than Van Halen III.

Dio the equivalent of Sammy Hagar? Eh, what ever brother. I expect that kind of babble from a guy who gets a hard-on from cleaning his grand mother’s dialysis bag.

[bueno bob]

OK, well, this is the thing right here.

Ronnie James Dio is NOWHERE NEAR "another Sammy Hagar riding on someone elses coat tails". Ronnie had a career YEARS before Ozzy Osbourne was even a blip on the radar. Ronnie is a musician; Ozzy is not. Ronnie is a tremendously talented vocalist and lyricist; Ozzy is not. Ozzy HAD a voice at one point, true, but he doesn't anymore and he hasn't for years; "Reunion", for me (and I've been breathing Black Sabbath since 1980), was a TOTAL disappointment due to Ozzy's absolutely wretched vocals.

Ozzy's solo albums have sucked ever since "No Rest for the Wicked"; outsider writers or no, he just hasn't sent forth anything even remotely listenable since 1988 and each album gets progressively worse.

Moreover, the Sabbath reunion has been very disappointing due to the fact that they needed to capitalize off of "Reunion" with a solid studio effort, and that has not materialized yet. Honestly, nothing more solid than a few tour outings has materialized from it, and there's still one good album left in them all, of that I'm sure.

I will agree that Blizzard and Diary are two of the greatest rock albums ever recorded, I will agree with that bar none - however, the REAL credit for that goes to Randy Rhoads and Bob Daisley because, as usual, Ozzy had very little to do with any of the processes of musical creation. Ozzy can hum some melodies and come up with some shitty lyrics that will eventually need to be replaced later on in the writing process, but that's as far as his musical talent goes. No further.

Keeping in mind that I'm a HUGE classic Sabbath fan, and would NEVER say anything to take away from those classic Sabbath albums, that's just the truth of it. Dio brought actual musicianship to Sabbath and was closer to doing the actual job of "band frontman" in his tenure than Ozzy ever got, simply because Ronnie knows more about music and composing than Ozzy does. It's that simple.

"Too bad, Geezer Butler is such a bitch that he sabotaged this album and Sabbath. Geezer is a nest haired fucker who back stabbed Tony and destroyed Sabbath. As a result of Geezer’s delusions, the production suffered bad, but isn’t as apparent on the remastered editions." - Stillwell

This is mostly true...Geezer Butler was the real culprint of 1982 in Black Sabbath land and what really botched things for the continued Dio/Sabbath association. Iommi had to side with somebody, and Geezer had been with Tony since 196?, so...what are you gonna do...but, as Ronnie himself said, the positive spin on things as far as 1982 was concerned was that the troubles over "Live Evil" paved the way for "Holy Diver" and the rest of the Dio catalog, so that was in no way a bad thing.

In conclusion:

Sabbath with Ozzy was classic, and will span the test of time, years and years from now. Sabbath with Ozzy is what will be remembered when all else is forgotten.

Ronnie was the best replacement for Ozzy that Sabbath could have ever chosen. Although it'll never be considered as classic and timeless as the 1970-1978 era, there's a TREMENDOUS amount of GREAT, GREAT music there; writing it off baselessly is both short-sighted and foolish.

Most of all, casually dismissing Ronnie James Dio's accomplishments over the last 40 years in the music industry, and his UNQUESTIONABLE talent, is beyond foolish and leaping headfirst straight into the boundries of utter stupidity.

[Stillwell]

Originally posted by bueno bob
OK, well, this is the thing right here.

Ronnie James Dio is NOWHERE NEAR "another Sammy Hagar riding on someone elses coat tails". Ronnie had a career YEARS before Ozzy Osbourne was even a blip on the radar. Ronnie is a musician; Ozzy is not. Ronnie is a tremendously talented vocalist and lyricist; Ozzy is not. Ozzy HAD a voice at one point, true, but he doesn't anymore and he hasn't for years; "Reunion", for me (and I've been breathing Black Sabbath since 1980), was a TOTAL disappointment due to Ozzy's absolutely wretched vocals.

Ozzy's solo albums have sucked ever since "No Rest for the Wicked"; outsider writers or no, he just hasn't sent forth anything even remotely listenable since 1988 and each album gets progressively worse.

Moreover, the Sabbath reunion has been very disappointing due to the fact that they needed to capitalize off of "Reunion" with a solid studio effort, and that has not materialized yet. Honestly, nothing more solid than a few tour outings has materialized from it, and there's still one good album left in them all, of that I'm sure.

I will agree that Blizzard and Diary are two of the greatest rock albums ever recorded, I will agree with that bar none - however, the REAL credit for that goes to Randy Rhoads and Bob Daisley because, as usual, Ozzy had very little to do with any of the processes of musical creation. Ozzy can hum some melodies and come up with some shitty lyrics that will eventually need to be replaced later on in the writing process, but that's as far as his musical talent goes. No further.

Keeping in mind that I'm a HUGE classic Sabbath fan, and would NEVER say anything to take away from those classic Sabbath albums, that's just the truth of it. Dio brought actual musicianship to Sabbath and was closer to doing the actual job of "band frontman" in his tenure than Ozzy ever got, simply because Ronnie knows more about music and composing than Ozzy does. It's that simple.

"Too bad, Geezer Butler is such a bitch that he sabotaged this album and Sabbath. Geezer is a nest haired fucker who back stabbed Tony and destroyed Sabbath. As a result of Geezer’s delusions, the production suffered bad, but isn’t as apparent on the remastered editions." - Stillwell

This is mostly true...Geezer Butler was the real culprint of 1982 in Black Sabbath land and what really botched things for the continued Dio/Sabbath association. Iommi had to side with somebody, and Geezer had been with Tony since 196?, so...what are you gonna do...but, as Ronnie himself said, the positive spin on things as far as 1982 was concerned was that the troubles over "Live Evil" paved the way for "Holy Diver" and the rest of the Dio catalog, so that was in no way a bad thing.

In conclusion:

Sabbath with Ozzy was classic, and will span the test of time, years and years from now. Sabbath with Ozzy is what will be remembered when all else is forgotten.

Ronnie was the best replacement for Ozzy that Sabbath could have ever chosen. Although it'll never be considered as classic and timeless as the 1970-1978 era, there's a TREMENDOUS amount of GREAT, GREAT music there; writing it off baselessly is both short-sighted and foolish.

Most of all, casually dismissing Ronnie James Dio's accomplishments over the last 40 years in the music industry, and his UNQUESTIONABLE talent, is beyond foolish and leaping headfirst straight into the boundries of utter stupidity.

Brilliant.

[Seshmeister]

I do admit that Dio was funny in Cheers.

http://www.cheers-becker.de/c_carla_05.JPG

[Mr Badguy]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
I do admit that Dio was funny in Cheers.

http://www.cheers-becker.de/c_carla_05.JPG

An oldie but a goody!:D

[rustoffa]

Originally posted by Hardrock69

:eek:
Brad Gillis and FEE WAYBILL doing ATOMIC PUNK? Where on earth did this occur?

And what the heck has Fee been up to lately? He did some kind of Tubes tour in the late 90s playing clubs and theaters, but that is all I know.....

I caught 'em here a few years back...still crazy after all these years.

Here's that tune...Tim Bogert on bass, Frankie Banali on the drums. Like Bill said, it was on the "Little Guitars" tribute that Bob Kulick produced. I also heard Dweezil had a big hand in it. Enjoy!

Brad Gillis and Fee Waybill Atomic Punk cover (http://www.streamload.com/rustoffa/punk.mp3)