Mel Gibson's Two Movies

[ELVIS]

It is crucial for Jews and Christians to try to understand what version of 'The Passion' the other is watching and reacting to.

By Dennis Prager (http://www.beliefnet.com/story/135/story_13565.html)


Early this past summer, Mel Gibson invited me to see "The Passion," his film on the trial and crucifixion of Jesus. The invitation was significant in that I was the first practicing Jew and active member of the American Jewish community to be invited. He did so because he believed, correctly, that he could trust me. I have long worked to build trust between Jews and Christians, especially traditional Christians.
The increasing tension over this film has reinforced impressions I offered Mel Gibson that day. When watching "The Passion," Jews and Christians are watching two entirely different films.

For two hours, Christians watch their Savior tortured and killed. For the same two hours, Jews watch Jews arrange the killing and torture of the Christians' Savior.

In order to avoid further tension between two wonderful communities that had been well on their way to historic amity, it is crucial for each to try to understand what film the other is watching and reacting to.

First, what Jews see. The Jews in the film (except, of course, for those who believe in Jesus) are cruel and often sadistic. One prominent Christian who saw the film along with my wife and me said that while watching the film he wanted to take a gun and shoot those who had brought such pain to Jesus. I couldn't blame him. The Jews in the film manipulate the Romans -- who are depicted as patsies of the Jews and in the case of Pilate, as morally far more elevated -- into torturing and murdering a beautiful man.

Why does this bother Jews so much? Because for nearly 2,000 years, attacked as "Christ-killers," countless Jewish men, women and children were tortured and murdered in ways that often caused more suffering than even Jesus endured (e.g., not only tortured and murdered themselves, but also seeing their families and friends raped, tortured and murdered). For Jews to worry that a major movie made by one of the world's superstars depicts Jews as having Christ tortured and killed might arouse anti-Semitic passions is not paranoid. Even though Islam denies the crucifixion, it is difficult to imagine that this film will not be a hit in the virulently anti-Semitic Arab world.


It is essential that Christians understand this. Every Jew, secular, religious, assimilated, left-wing, right-wing, fears being killed because he is Jewish. This is the best-kept secret about Jews, who are widely perceived as inordinately secure and powerful. But it is the only universally held sentiment among Jews. After the Holocaust and with Islamic terrorists seeking to murder Jews today, this, too, is not paranoid.

However, what Jews need to understand is that most American Christians watching this film do not see "the Jews" as the villains in the passion story historically, let alone today. First, most American Christians -- Catholic and Protestant -- believe that a sinning humanity killed Jesus, not "the Jews." Second, they know that Christ's entire purpose was to come to this world and to be killed for humanity's sins. To the Christian, God made it happen, not the Jews or the Romans (the Book of Acts says precisely that). Third, a Christian who hates Jews today for what he believes some Jews did 2,000 years ago only reflects on the low moral, intellectual and religious state of that Christian. Imagine what Jews would think of a Jew who hated Egyptians after watching "The Ten Commandments," and you get an idea of how most Christians would regard a Christian who hated Jews after watching "The Passion."

Jews also need to understand another aspect of "The Passion" controversy. Just as Jews are responding to centuries of Christian anti-Semitism (virtually all of it in Europe), many Christians are responding to decades of Christian-bashing -- films and art mocking Christian symbols, a war on virtually any public Christian expression (from the death of the Christmas party to the moral identification of fundamentalist Christians with fundamentalist Muslims). Moreover, many Jewish groups and media people now attacking "The Passion" have a history of irresponsibly labeling conservative Christians anti-Semitic.

I cannot say that I am happy this film was made. Nevertheless, if the vast majority of Christians and Jews of goodwill try hard to understand what film the other is watching, some good can yet result. The last thing Jews need is to create tension with their best friends. And the last thing Christians need is a renewal of Christian hatred toward Jesus' people.

:elvis:

[Cathedral]

I wanted to try and take in the matinee screening of this film today or tomorrow but there are no tickets available through Tuesday here.

I never knew people could buy movie tickets online, i'm gonna see it though.

I never understood the hatred for Jews over Jesus death. the mob of Jews that were there don't represent the entire Jewish population in my opinion.
I would lay the bulk of the responsibility on Pontias Pilot since he was the one who could have saved him. he was the only one who had the authority to sentence someone to death and his stating that he found no guilt in Jesus but allowed him to be sacrificed just proved that he was an opportunist and calculating man.

He never did get the blood off his hands (figuratively speaking of course) since he became known as a compulsive hand washer after the fact.

I have always believed just as it has been debated over the last few days that Jesus died for all of our sins and that it was the human race that was the reason for his sacrifice anyway.
if anyone wants someone to blame they need look no further than their own mirror...

[Seshmeister]

I don't get any of this at all just from a logical point of view.

Let's assume it all happened as stated in the bible and we'll ignore the inconsitences etc. etc.

Let's try a simplistic approach.

1) God is the supreme guy and he loves us.

2) He makes his son Jewish.

3) He sends him down to die for our sins.

So God wanted his son to be Jewish and he wanted him crucified. Whether it was Pilate or the Jews that got the job done is entirely irrelevant as they were doing Gods will. Which he must have known they would beforehand in any case if even his kid could see into the future.

Honestly I can't believe the lengths people go to try and justify their petty little predjudices.

No wonder people like me start to say fuck all organised religion.

Cheers!

:gulp:

[David Lee Rocks]

exactly

[ELVIS]

Following christ has nothing to do with organized religion...

..and it is true.. all of the bible is true...

[Cathedral]

The fact that only certain books were put into the bible is the problem.
The things people call "inconsistencies" are just the things that had no importance to getting the message across.

But the reality is that all of the books are relative to each other and if you try to hard it will only confuse you.

remember that it was written over a period of time and by different people, why would anyone expect it to read like a novel?
just because page one doesn't lead to page two seemlessly is no reason to discount the whole thing.
And if you try hard enough you can find fault with anything, the question is, Is your soul worth gambling on your own understanding?

I find it amazing how books written in different regions correspond with and reinforce each other.

I think the key is to never give up on it and pray about it before coming to judgement that may not be an accurate view.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Following christ has nothing to do with organized religion...

..and it is true.. all of the bible is true...

Yeah, it's pretty much History that never was taught in school, imagine that...
we are a civilization of ignorance...

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Seshmeister

Let's assume it all happened as stated in the bible and we'll ignore the inconsitences etc. etc.



There are no inconsistencies.



BTW - this is a great flick. If you come away from this picture unmoved, you are spiritually dead. Saw it last night. :)

[ELVIS]

I was thinking of seeing it this afternoon...

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
There are no inconsistencies.


That's not strictly true...

GE 1:3-5 On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness.
GE 1:14-19 The sun (which separates night and day) wasn't created until the fourth day.

GE 1:11-12, 26-27 Trees were created before man was created.
GE 2:4-9 Man was created before trees were created.

GE 1:20-21, 26-27 Birds were created before man was created.
GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before birds were created.

GE 1:24-27 Animals were created before man was created.
GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before animals were created.

GE 1:26-27 Man and woman were created at the same time.
GE 2:7, 21-22 Man was created first, woman sometime later.

GE 1:28 God encourages reproduction.
LE 12:1-8 God requires purification rites following childbirth which, in effect, makes childbirth a sin. (Note: The period for purification following the birth of a daughter is twice that for a son.)

GE 1:31 God was pleased with his creation.
GE 6:5-6 God was not pleased with his creation.
(Note: That God should be displeased is inconsistent with the concept of omniscience.)

GE 2:4, 4:26, 12:8, 22:14-16, 26:25 God was already known as "the Lord" (Jahveh or Jehovah) much earlier than the time of Moses.
EX 6:2-3 God was first known as "the Lord" (Jahveh or Jehovah) at the time of the Egyptian Bondage, during the life of Moses.

GE 2:17 Adam was to die the very day that he ate the forbidden fruit.
GE 5:5 Adam lived 930 years.

GE 2:15-17, 3:4-6 It is wrong to want to be able to tell good from evil.
HE 5:13-14 It is immature to be unable to tell good from evil.

GE 4:4-5 God prefers Abel's offering and has no regard for Cain's.
2CH 19:7, AC 10:34, RO 2:11 God shows no partiality. He treats all alike.

GE 4:9 God asks Cain where his brother Able is.
PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees everything. Nothing is hidden from his view.

GE 4:15, DT 32:19-27, IS 34:8 God is a vengeful god.
EX 15:3, IS 42:13, HE 12:29 God is a warrior. God is a consuming fire.
EX 20:5, 34:14, DT 4:24, 5:9, 6:15, 29:20, 32:21 God is a jealous god.
LE 26:7-8, NU 31:17-18, DT 20:16-17, JS 10:40, JG 14:19, EZ 9:5-7 The Spirit of God is (sometimes) murder and killing.
NU 25:3-4, DT 6:15, 9:7-8, 29:20, 32:21, PS 7:11, 78:49, JE 4:8, 17:4, 32:30-31, ZP 2:2 God is angry. His anger is sometimes fierce.
2SA 22:7-8 (KJV) "I called to the Lord; ... he heard my voice; ... The earth trembled and quaked, ... because he was angry. Smoke came from his nostrils. Consuming fire came from his mouth, burning coals blazed out of it."
EZ 6:12, NA 1:2, 6 God is jealous and furious. He reserves wrath for, and takes revenge on, his enemies. "... who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? His fury is poured out like fire, and rocks are thrown down by him."
2CO 13:11, 14, 1JN 4:8, 16 God is love.
GA 5:22-23 The fruit of the Spirit of God is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

GE 4:16 Cain went away (or out) from the presence of the Lord.
JE 23:23-24 A man cannot hide from God. God fills heaven and earth.

GE 6:4 There were Nephilim (giants) before the Flood.
GE 7:21 All creatures other than Noah and his clan were annihilated by the Flood.
NU 13:33 There were Nephilim after the Flood.

GE 6:6. EX 32:14, NU 14:20, 1SA 15:35, 2SA 24:16 God does change his mind.
NU 23:19-20, IS 15:29, JA 1:17 God does not change his mind.

GE 6:19-22, 7:8-9, 7:14-16 Two of each kind are to be taken, and are taken, aboard Noah's Ark.
GE 7:2-5 Seven pairs of some kinds are to be taken (and are taken) aboard the Ark.

GE 7:1 Noah was righteous.
JB 1:1,8, JB 2:3 Job was righteous.
LK 1:6 Zechariah and Elizabeth were righteous.
JA 5:16 Some men are righteous, (which makes their prayers effective).
1JN 3:6-9 Christians become righteous (or else they are not really Christians).
RO 3:10, 3:23, 1JN 1:8-10 No one was or is righteous.

GE 7:7 Noah and his clan enter the Ark.
GE 7:13 They enter the Ark (again?).

GE 11:7-9 God sows discord.
PR 6:16-19 God hates anyone who sows discord.

GE 11:9 At Babel, the Lord confused the language of the whole world.
1CO 14:33 Paul says that God is not the author of confusion.

GE 11:12 Arpachshad [Arphaxad] was the father of Shelah.
LK 3:35-36 Cainan was the father of Shelah. Arpachshad was the grandfather of Shelah.

GE 11:26 Terah was 70 years old when his son Abram was born.
GE 11:32 Terah was 205 years old when he died (making Abram 135 at the time).
GE 12:4, AC 7:4 Abram was 75 when he left Haran. This was after Terah died. Thus, Terah could have been no more than 145 when he died; or Abram was only 75 years old after he had lived 135 years.

GE 12:7, 17:1, 18:1, 26:2, 32:30, EX 3:16, 6:2-3, 24:9-11, 33:11, NU 12:7-8, 14:14, JB 42:5, AM 7:7-8, 9:1 God is seen.
EX 33:20, JN 1:18, 1JN 4:12 God is not seen. No one can see God's face and live. No one has ever seen him.

GE 10:5, 20, 31 There were many languages before the Tower of Babel.
GE 11:1 There was only one language before the Tower of Babel.

GE 15:9, EX 20:24, 29:10-42, LE 1:1-7:38, NU 28:1-29:40, God details sacrificial offerings.
JE 7:21-22 God says he did no such thing.

GE 16:15, 21:1-3, GA 4:22 Abraham had two sons, Ishmael and Isaac.
HE 11:17 Abraham had only one son.

GE 17:1, 35:11, 1CH 29:11-12, LK 1:37 God is omnipotent. Nothing is impossible with (or for) God.
JG 1:19 Although God was with Judah, together they could not defeat the plainsmen because the latter had iron chariots.

GE 17:7, 10-11 The covenant of circumcision is to be everlasting.
GA 6:15 It is of no consequence.

GE 17:8 God promises Abraham the land of Canaan as an "everlasting possession." GE 25:8, AC 7:2-5, HE 11:13 Abraham died with the promise unfulfilled.

GE 17:15-16, 20:11-12, 22:17 Abraham and his half sister, Sarai, are married and receive God's blessings.
LE 20:17, DT 27:20-23 Incest is wrong.

GE 18:20-21 God decides to "go down" to see what is going on.
PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees everything. Nothing is hidden from his view.

GE 19:30-38 While he is drunk, Lot's two daughters "lie with him," become pregnant, and give birth to his offspring.
2PE 2:7 Lot was "just" and "righteous."

GE 22:1-12, DT 8:2 God tempts (tests) Abraham and Moses.
JG 2:22 God himself says that he does test (tempt).
1CO 10:13 Paul says that God controls the extent of our temptations.
JA 1:13 God tests (tempts) no one.

GE 27:28 "May God give you ... an abundance of grain and new wine."
DT 7:13 If they follow his commandments, God will bless the fruit of their wine.
PS 104:15 God gives us wine to gladden the heart.
JE 13:12 "... every bottle shall be filled with wine."
JN 2:1-11 According to the author of John, Jesus' first miracle was turning water to wine.
RO 14:21 It is good to refrain from drinking wine.

GE 35:10 God says Jacob is to be called Jacob no longer; henceforth his name is Israel.
GE 46:2 At a later time, God himself uses the name Jacob.

GE 36:11 The sons of Eliphaz were Teman, Omar, Zepho, Gatam, and Kenaz.
GE 36:15-16 Teman, Omar, Zepho, Kenaz.
1CH 1:35-36 Teman, Omar, Zephi, Gatam, Kenaz, Timna, and Amalek.

GE 49:2-28 The fathers of the twelve tribes of Israel are: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Zebulun, Issachar, Dan, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Joseph, and Benjamin.
RE 7:4-8 (Leaves out the tribe of Dan, but adds Manasseh.)

GE 50:13 Jacob was buried in a cave at Machpelah bought from Ephron the Hittite.
AC 7:15-16 He was buried in the sepulchre at Shechem, bought from the sons of Hamor.

EX 3:1 Jethro was the father-in-law of Moses.
NU 10:29, JG 4:11 (KJV) Hobab was the father-in-law of Moses.

EX 3:20-22, DT 20:13-17 God instructs the Israelites to despoil the Egyptians, to plunder their enemies.
EX 20:15, 17, LE 19:13 God prohibits stealing, defrauding, or robbing a neighbor.

EX 4:11 God decides who will be dumb, deaf, blind, etc.
2CO 13:11, 14, 1JN 4:8, 16 God is a god of love.

EX 9:3-6 God destroys all the cattle (including horses) belonging to the Egyptians.
EX 9:9-11 The people and the cattle are afflicted with boils.
EX 12:12, 29 All the first-born of the cattle of the Egyptians are destroyed.
EX 14:9 After having all their cattle destroyed, then afflicted with boils, and then their first-born cattle destroyed, the Egyptians pursue Moses on horseback.

EX 12:13 The Israelites have to mark their houses with blood in order for God to see which houses they occupy and "pass over" them.
PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees everything. Nothing is hidden from God.

EX 12:37, NU 1:45-46 The number of men of military age who take part in the Exodus is given as more than 600,000. Allowing for women, children, and older men would probably mean that a total of about 2,000,000 Israelites left Egypt.
1KI 20:15 All the Israelites, including children, number only 7000 at a later time.

EX 15:3, 17:16, NU 25:4, 32:14, IS 42:13 God is a man of war--he is fierce and angry.
RO 15:33, 2CO 13:11, 14, 1JN 4:8, 16 God is a god of love and peace.

EX 20:1-17 God gave the law directly to Moses (without using an intermediary).
GA 3:19 The law was ordained through angels by a mediator (an intermediary).

EX 20:4 God prohibits the making of any graven images whatsoever.
EX 25:18 God enjoins the making of two graven images.

EX 20:5, 34:7, NU 14:18, DT 5:9, IS 14:21-22 Children are to suffer for their parent's sins.
DT 24:16, EZ 18:19-20 Children are not to suffer for their parent's sins.

EX 20:8-11, 31:15-17, 35:1-3 No work is to be done on the Sabbath, not even lighting a fire. The commandment is permanent, and death is required for infractions.
MK 2:27-28 Jesus says that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath (after his disciples were criticized for breaking the Sabbath).
RO 14:5, CN 2:14-16 Paul says the Sabbath commandment was temporary, and to decide for yourself regarding its observance.

EX 20:12, DT 5:16, MT 15:4, 19:19, MK 7:10, 10:19, LK 18:20 Honor your father and your mother is one of the ten commandments. It is reinforced by Jesus.
MT 10:35-37, LK 12:51-53, 14:26 Jesus says that he has come to divide families; that a man's foes will be those of his own household; that you must hate your father, mother, wife, children, brothers, sisters, and even your own life to be a disciple.
MT 23:9 Jesus says to call no man on earth your father.

EX 20:13, DT 5:17, MK 10:19, LK 18:20, RO 13:9, JA 2:11 God prohibits killing.
GE 34:1-35:5 God condones trickery and killing.
EX 32:27, DT 7:2, 13:15, 20:1-18 God orders killing.
2KI 19:35 An angel of the Lord slaughters 185,000 men.
(Note: See Atrocities section for many more examples.)

EX 20:14 God prohibits adultery.
HO 1:2 God instructs Hosea to "take a wife of harlotry."

EX 21:23-25, LE 24:20, DT 19:21 A life for a life, an eye for an eye, etc.
MT 5:38-44, LK 6:27-29 Turn the other cheek. Love your enemies.

EX 23:7 God prohibits the killing of the innocent.
NU 31:17-18, DT 7:2, JS 6:21-27, 7:19-26, 8:22-25, 10:20, 40, 11:8-15, 20, JG 11:30-39, 21:10-12, 1SA 15:3 God orders or approves the complete extermination of groups of people which include innocent women and/or children.
(Note: See Atrocities section for many other examples of the killing of innocents.)

EX 34:6, DT 7:9-10, TS 1:2 God is faithful and truthful. He does not lie.
NU 14:30 God breaks his promise.

EX 34:6, DT 7:9-10, TS 1:2 God is faithful and truthful. He does not lie.
1KI 22:21-23 God condones a spirit of deception.

EX 34:6, DT 7:9-10, TS 1:2 God is faithful and truthful. He does not lie.
2TH 2:11-12 God deludes people, making them believe what is false, so as to be able to condemn them. (Note: some versions use the word persuade here. The context makes clear, however, that deception is involved.)

EX 34:6-7, JS 24:19, 1CH 16:34 God is faithful, holy and good.
IS 45:6-7, LA 3:8, AM 3:6 God is responsible for evil.

EX 34:6-7, HE 9:27 God remembers sin, even when it has been forgiven.
JE 31:34 God does not remember sin when it has been forgiven.

LE 3:17 God himself prohibits forever the eating of blood and fat.
MT 15:11, CN 2:20-22 Jesus and Paul say that such rules don't matter--they are only human injunctions.

LE 19:18, MT 22:39 Love your neighbor [as much as] yourself.
1CO 10:24 Put your neighbor ahead of yourself.

LE 21:10 The chief priest is not to rend his clothes.
MT 26:65, MK 14:63 He does so during the trial of Jesus.

LE 25:37, PS 15:1, 5 It is wrong to lend money at interest.
MT 25:27, LK 19:23-27 It is wrong to lend money without interest.

NU 11:33 God inflicts sickness.
JB 2:7 Satan inflicts sickness.

NU 15:24-28 Sacrifices can, in at least some case, take away sin.
HE 10:11 They never take away sin.

NU 25:9 24,000 died in the plague.
1CO 10:8 23,000 died in the plague.

NU 30:2 God enjoins the making of vows (oaths).
MT 5:33-37 Jesus forbids doing so, saying that they arise from evil (or the Devil).

NU 33:38 Aaron died on Mt. Hor.
DT 10:6 Aaron died in Mosera.

NU 33:41-42 After Aaron's death, the Israelites journeyed from Mt. Hor, to Zalmonah, to Punon, etc.
DT 10:6-7 It was from Mosera, to Gudgodah, to Jotbath.

DT 6:15, 9:7-8, 29:20, 32:21 God is sometimes angry.
MT 5:22 Anger is a sin.

DT 7:9-10 God destroys his enemies.
MT 5:39-44 Do not resist your enemies. Love them.

DT 18:20-22 A false prophet is one whose words do not come true. Death is required.
EZ 14:9 A prophet who is deceived, is deceived by God himself. Death is still required.

DT 23:1 A castrate may not enter the assembly of the Lord.
IS 56:4-5 Some castrates will receive special rewards.

DT 23:1 A castrate may not enter the assembly of the Lord.
MT 19:12 Men are encouraged to consider making themselves castrates for the sake of the Kingdom of God.

DT 24:1-5 A man can divorce his wife simply because she displeases him and both he and his wife can remarry.
MK 10:2-12 Divorce is wrong, and to remarry is to commit adultery.

DT 24:16, 2KI 14:6, 2CH 25:4, EZ 18:20 Children are not to suffer for their parent's sins.
RO 5:12, 19, 1CO 15:22 Death is passed to all men by the sin of Adam.

DT 30:11-20 It is possible to keep the law.
RO 3:20-23 It is not possible to keep the law.

JS 11:20 God shows no mercy to some.
LK 6:36, JA 5:11 God is merciful.

JG 4:21 Sisera was sleeping when Jael killed him.
JG 5:25-27 Sisera was standing.

JS 10:38-40 Joshua himself captured Debir.
JG 1:11-15 It was Othniel, who thereby obtained the hand of Caleb's daughter, Achsah.

1SA 8:2-22 Samuel informs God as to what he has heard from others.
PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees and hears everything.

1SA 9:15-17 The Lord tells Samuel that Saul has been chosen to lead the Israelites and will save them from the Philistines.
1SA 15:35 The Lord is sorry that he has chosen Saul.
1SA 31:4-7 Saul commits suicide and the Israelites are overrun by the Philistines.

1SA 15:7-8, 20 The Amalekites are utterly destroyed.
1SA 27:8-9 They are utterly destroyed (again?).
1SA 30:1, 17-18 They raid Ziklag and David smites them (again?).

1SA 16:10-11, 17:12 Jesse had seven sons plus David, or eight total.
1CH 2:13-15 He had seven total.

1SA 16:19-23 Saul knew David well before the latter's encounter with Goliath.
1SA 17:55-58 Saul did not know David at the time of his encounter with Goliath and had to ask about David's identity.

1SA 17:50 David killed Goliath with a slingshot.
1SA 17:51 David killed Goliath (again?) with a sword.

1SA 17:50 David killed Goliath.
2SA 21:19 Elhanan killed Goliath. (Note: Some translations insert the words "the brother of" before Elhanan. These are an addition to the earliest manuscripts in an apparent attempt to rectify this inconsistency.)

1SA 21:1-6 Ahimalech was high priest when David ate the bread.
MK 2:26 Abiathar was high priest at the time.

1SA 28:6 Saul inquired of the Lord, but received no answer.
1CH 10:13-14 Saul died for not inquiring of the Lord.

1SA 31:4-6 Saul killed himself by falling on his sword.
2SA 1:2-10 Saul, at his own request, was slain by an Amalekite.
2SA 21:12 Saul was killed by the Philistines on Gilboa.
1CH 10:13-14 Saul was slain by God.

2SA 6:23 Michal was childless.
2SA 21:8 (KJV) She had five sons.

2SA 24:1 The Lord inspired David to take the census.
1CH 21:1 Satan inspired the census.

2SA 24:9 The census count was: Israel 800,000 and Judah 500,000.
1CH 21:5 The census count was: Israel 1,100,000 and Judah 470,000.

2SA 24:10-17 David sinned in taking the census.
1KI 15:5 David's only sin (ever) was in regard to another matter.

2SA 24:24 David paid 50 shekels of silver for the purchase of a property.
1CH 21:22-25 He paid 600 shekels of gold.

1KI 3:12 God made Solomon the wisest man that ever lived, yet ....
1KI 11:1-13 Solomon loved many foreign women (against God's explicit prohibition) who turned him to other gods (for which he deserved death).

1KI 3:12, 4:29, 10:23-24, 2CH 9:22-23 God made Solomon the wisest king and the wisest man that ever lived. There never has been nor will be another like him.
MT 12:42, LK 11:31 Jesus says: "... now one greater than Solomon is here."

1KI 4:26 Solomon had 40,000 horses (or stalls for horses).
2CH 9:25 He had 4,000 horses (or stalls for horses).

1KI 5:16 Solomon had 3,300 supervisors.
2CH 2:2 He had 3,600 supervisors.

1KI 7:15-22 The two pillars were 18 cubits high.
2CH 3:15-17 They were 35 cubits high.

1KI 7:26 Solomon's "molten sea" held 2000 "baths" (1 bath = about 8 gallons).
2CH 4:5 It held 3000 "baths."

1KI 8:12, 2CH 6:1, PS 18:11 God dwells in thick darkness.
1TI 6:16 God dwells in unapproachable light.

1KI 8:13, AC 7:47 Solomon, whom God made the wisest man ever, built his temple as an abode for God.
AC 7:48-49 God does not dwell in temples built by men.

1KI 9:28 420 talents of gold were brought back from Ophir.
2CH 8:18 450 talents of gold were brought back from Ophir.

1KI 15:14 Asa did not remove the high places.
2CH 14:2-3 He did remove them.

1KI 16:6-8 Baasha died in the 26th year of King Asa's reign.
2CH 16:1 Baasha built a city in the 36th year of King Asa's reign.

1KI 16:23 Omri became king in the thirty-first year of Asa's reign and he reigned for a total of twelve years.
1KI 16:28-29 Omri died, and his son Ahab became king in the thirty- eighth year of Asa's reign. (Note: Thirty-one through thirty-eight equals a reign of seven or eight years.)

1KI 22:23, 2CH 18:22, 2TH 2:11 God himself causes a lying spirit.
PR 12:22 God abhors lying lips and delights in honesty.

1KI 22:42-43 Jehoshaphat did not remove the high places.
2CH 17:5-6 He did remove them.

2KI 2:11 Elijah went up to heaven.
JN 3:13 Only the Son of Man (Jesus) has ever ascended to heaven.
2CO 12:2-4 An unnamed man, known to Paul, went up to heaven and came back.
HE 11:5 Enoch was translated to heaven.

2KI 4:32-37 A dead child is raised (well before the time of Jesus).
MT 9:18-25, JN 11:38-44 Two dead persons are raised (by Jesus himself).
AC 26:23 Jesus was the first to rise from the dead.

2KI 8:25-26 Ahaziah was 22 years old when he began his reign.
2CH 22:2 He was 42 when he began his reign.
[Note: Some translations use "twenty-two" here in an attempt to rectify this discrepancy. The Hebrew is clear, however, that 2CH 22:2 is 42. The Hebrew words involved are Strong's H705 and H8147, "forty" and "two," respectively.]

2KI 9:27 Jehu shot Ahaziah near Ibleam. Ahaziah fled to Meggido and died there.
2CH 22:9 Ahaziah was found hiding in Samaria, brought to Jehu, and put to death.

2KI 16:5 The King of Syria and the son of the King of Israel did not conquer Ahaz.
2CH 28:5-6 They did conquer Ahaz.

2KI 24:8 Jehoiachin (Jehoiakim) was eighteen years old when he began to reign.
2CH 36:9 He was eight.
(Note: This discrepancy has been "corrected" in some versions.)

2KI 24:8 Jehoiachin (Jehoiakim) reigned three months.
2CH 36:9 He reigned three months and ten days.

2KI 24:17 Jehoiachin (Jehoaikim) was succeeded by his uncle.
2CH 36:10 He was succeeded by his brother.

1CH 3:11-13 The lineage is: Joram, Ahaziah, Joash, Amaziah, Azariah, Jotham.
MT 1:8-9 It is: Joram, Uzziah, Jotham, etc.

1CH 3:19 Pedaiah was the father of Zerubbabel.
ER 3:2 Shealtiel was the father of Zerubbabel.

2CH 19:7, AC 10:34, RO 2:11 There is no injustice or partiality with the Lord.
RO 9:15-18 God has mercy on (and hardens the hearts of) whom he pleases.

ER 2:3-64 (Gives the whole congregation as 42,360 while the actual sum of the numbers is about 30,000.)

JB 2:3-6, 21:7-13, 2TI 3:12 The godly are persecuted and chastised but the wicked grow old, wealthy, and powerful, unchastised by God.
PS 55:23, 92:12-14, PR 10:2-3, 27-31, 12:2, 21 The lives of the wicked are cut short. The righteous flourish and obtain favor from the Lord.

PS 10:1 God cannot be found in time of need. He is "far off."
PS 145:18 God is near to all who call upon him in truth.

PS 22:1-2 God sometimes forsakes his children. He does not answer.
PS 46:1 God is a refuge, a strength, a very present help.

PS 30:5, JE 3:12, MI 7:18 God's anger does not last forever.
JE 17:4, MT 25:46 It does last forever. (He has provided for eternal punishment.)

PS 58:10-11 The righteous shall rejoice when he sees vengeance.
PR 24:16-18 Do not rejoice when your enemy falls or stumbles.

PS 78:69, EC 1:4, 3:14 The earth was established forever.
PS 102:25-26, MT 24:35, MK 13:31, LK 21:33, HE 1:10-11, 2PE 3:10 The earth will someday perish.

PR 3:13, 4:7, 19:8, JA 1:5 Happy is the man who finds wisdom. Get wisdom.
LK 2:40, 52 Jesus was filled with wisdom and found favor with God.
1CO 1:19-25, 3:18-20 Wisdom is foolishness.

PR 12:2, RO 8:28 A good man obtains favor from the Lord.
2TI 3:12, HE 12:6 The godly will be persecuted.

PR 14:8 The wisdom of a prudent man is to discern his way.
MT 6:25-34 Take no thought for tomorrow. God will take care of you.

PR 14:15-18 The simple believe everything and acquire folly; the prudent look where they are going and are crowned with knowledge.
MT 18:3, LK 18:17 You must believe as little children do.
1CO 1:20, 27 God has made the wisdom of the world foolish so as to shame the wise.
PR 16:4 God made the wicked for the "day of evil."
MT 11:25, MK 4:11-12 God and Jesus hide some things from some people.
JN 6:65 No one can come to Jesus unless it is granted by God.
RO 8:28-30 Some are predestined to be called to God, believe in Jesus, and be justified.
RO 9:15-18 God has mercy on, and hardens the hearts of, whom he pleases.
2TH 2:11-12 God deceives the wicked so as to be able to condemn them.
1TI 2:3-4, 2PE 3:9 [Yet] God wants all to be saved.

PR 8:13, 16:6 It is the fear of God that keeps men from evil.
1JN 4:18 There is no fear in love. Perfect love drives out fear.
1JN 5:2, 2JN 1:6 Those who love God keep his commandments.

PR 26:4 Do not answer a fool. To do so makes you foolish too.
PR 26:5 Answer a fool. If you don't, he will think himself wise.

PR 30:5 Every word of God proves true.
JE 8:8 The scribes falsify the word of God.
JE 20:7, EZ 14:9, 2TH 2:11-12 God himself deceives people.
(Note: Some versions translate deceive as "persuade." The context makes clear, however, that deception is involved.)

IS 3:13 God stands to judge.
JL 3:12 He sits to judge.

IS 44:24 God created heaven and earth alone.
JN 1:1-3 Jesus took part in creation.

IS 53:9 Usually taken to be a prophecy re: Jesus, mentions burial with others.
MT 27:58-60, MK 15:45-46, LK 23:52-53, JN 19:38-42 Jesus was buried by himself.

JE 12:13 Some sow wheat but reap thorns.
MI 6:15 Some sow but won't reap anything.
MT 25:26, LK 19:22 Some reap without sowing.
2CO 9:6, GA 6:7 A man reaps what he sows.

JE 32:18 God shows love to thousands, but brings punishment for the sins of their fathers to many children.
2CO 13:11, 14, 1JN 4:8, 16 God is a god of love.

JE 34:4-5 Zedekiah was to die in peace.
JE 52:10-11 Instead, Zedekaih's sons are slain before his eyes, his eyes are then put out, he is bound in fetters, taken to Babylon and left in prison to die.

EZ 20:25-26 The law was not good. The sacrifice of children was for the purpose of horrifying the people so that they would know that God is Lord.
RO 7:12, 1TI 1:8 The law is good.

EZ 26:15-21 God says that Tyre will be destroyed and will never be found again.
(Nebudchanezzar failed to capture or destroy Tyre. It is still inhabited.)

DN 5:1 (Gives the title of "king" to Belshazzar although Belshazzar was actually the "viceroy.")

DN 5:2 (Says that Nebuchadnezzar was the father of Belshazzar, but actually, Nebonidus was the father of Belshazzar.) (Note: Some versions attempt to correct this error by making the verse say that Nebuchadnezzar was the grandfather of Belshazzar.)

ZE 11:12-13 Mentions "thirty pieces" and could possibly be thought to be connected with the Potter's Field prophesy referred to in Matthew.
MT 27:9 Jeremiah is given as the source of the prophesy regarding the purchase of the Potter's Field. (Note: There is no such prophesy in Jeremiah.)

MT 1:6-7 The lineage of Jesus is traced through David's son, Solomon.
LK 3:23-31 It is traced through David's son, Nathan.
(Note: Some apologists assert that Luke traces the lineage through Mary. That this is untrue is obvious from the context since Luke and Matthew both clearly state that Joseph was Jesus' father.)

MT 1:16 Jacob was Joseph's father.
LK 3:23 Heli was Joseph's father.

MT 1:17 There were twenty-eight generations from David to Jesus.
LK 3:23-38 There were forty-three.

MT 1:18-21 The Annunciation occurred after Mary had conceived Jesus.
LK 1:26-31 It occurred before conception.

MT 1:20 The angel spoke to Joseph.
LK 1:28 The angel spoke to Mary.

MT 1:20-23, LK 1:26-33 An angel announces to Joseph and/or Mary that the child (Jesus) will be "great," the "son of the Most High," etc., and ....
MT 3:13-17, MK 1:9-11 The baptism of Jesus is accompanied by the most extraordinary happenings, yet ....
MK 3:21 Jesus' own relatives (or friends) attempt to constrain him, thinking that he might be out of his mind, and ....
MK 6:4-6 Jesus says that a prophet is without honor in his own house (which certainly should not have been the case considering the Annunciation and the Baptism).

MT 1:23 He will be called Emmanuel (or Immanuel).
MT 1:25 Instead, he was called Jesus.

MT 2:13-16 Following the birth of Jesus, Joseph and Mary flee to Egypt, (where they stay until after Herod's death) in order to avoid the murder of their firstborn by Herod. Herod slaughters all male infants two years old and under. (Note: John the Baptist, Jesus' cousin, though under two is somehow spared without fleeing to Egypt.)
LK 2:22-40 Following the birth of Jesus, Joseph and Mary remain in the area of Jerusalem for the Presentation (about forty days) and then return to Nazareth without ever going to Egypt. There is no slaughter of the infants.

MT 2:23 "And he went and lived in a town called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was said through the prophets: He will be called a Nazarene.'" (This prophecy is not found in the OT and while Jesus is often referred to as "Jesus of Nazareth", he is seldom referred to as "Jesus the Nazarene.")

MT 3:11-14, JN 1:31-34 John realized the true identity of Jesus (as the Messiah) either prior to the actual Baptism, or from the Baptism onward. The very purpose of John's baptism was to reveal Jesus to Israel.
MT 11:2-3 After the Baptism, John sends his disciples to ask if Jesus is the Messiah.

MT 3:12, 13:42 Hell is a furnace of fire (and must therefore be light).
MT 8:12, 22:13, 25:30 Hell is an "outer darkness" (and therefore dark).

MT 3:16, MK 1:10 It was Jesus who saw the Spirit descending.
JN 1:32 It was John who saw the Spirit descending.

MT 3:17 The heavenly voice addressed the crowd: "This is my beloved Son."
MK 1:11, LK 3:22 The voice addressed Jesus: "You are my beloved Son...."

MT 4:1-11, MK 1:12-13 Immediately following his Baptism, Jesus spent forty days in the wilderness resisting temptation by the Devil.
JN 2:1-11 Three days after the Baptism, Jesus was at the wedding in Cana.

MT 4:5-8 The Devil took Jesus to the pinnacle of the temple, then to the mountain top.
LK 4:5-9 First to the mountain top, then to the pinnacle of the temple.

MT 4:18-20, MK 1:16-18 (One story about choosing Peter as a disciple.)
LK 5:2-11 (A different story.)
JN 1:35-42 (Still another story.)

MT 5:1 - 7:29 Jesus delivers his most noteworthy sermon while on the mount.
LK 6:17-49 Jesus delivers his most noteworthy sermon while on the plain. (Note: No such sermons are mentioned in either MK or JN and Paul seems totally unfamiliar with either the sermon on the mount or the sermon on the plain.)

MT 5:16 Good works should be seen.
MT 6:1-4 They should be kept secret.

MT 5:17-19, LK 16:17 Jesus underscores the permanence of the law.
LE 10:8 - 11:47, DT 14:3-21 The law distinguishes between clean and unclean foods.
MK 7:14-15, MK 7:18-19 Jesus says that there is no such distinction.
1TI 4:1-4 All foods are clean according to Paul.

MT 5:17-19, LK 16:17 Jesus did not come to abolish the law.
EP 2:13-15, HE 7:18-19 Jesus did abolish the law.

MT 5:22 Anyone who calls another a fool is liable to Hell.
MT 7:26 Jesus says that anyone who hears his words and does not do them is a fool. (Note: The translation now prevalent, "like a foolish man," in MT 7:26 is a dishonest attempt to alleviate the obvious inconsistency here in that the oldest Greek manuscripts use the same Greek word translated "fool" in MT 5:22 and "like a foolish man" in MT 7:26.)
MT 23:17-19 Jesus twice calls the Pharisees blind fools.
MT 25:2, 3, 8 Jesus likens the maidens who took no oil to fools. (Note: Again, this is the same Greek word translated "fool" in MT 5:22 and MT 23:17-19.)
1CO 1:23, 3:18, 4:10 Paul uses fool with regard to Christians becoming fools for Christ. (Note: Again, this is the same Greek word translated "fool" in MT 5:22 and MT 23:17-19.)

MT 5:22 Anger by itself is a sin.
EP 4:26 Anger is not necessarily a sin.

MT 5:22 Anger by itself is a sin.
MT 11:22-24, LK 10:13-15 Jesus curses the inhabitants of several cities who are not sufficiently impressed with his mighty works.
MT 21:19, MK 11:12-14 Jesus curses a fig tree when it fails to bear fruit out of season.
MK 3:5 Jesus looks around "angrily."

MT 5:32 Divorce, except on the grounds of unchastity, is wrong.
MK 10:11-12 Divorce on any grounds is wrong.

MT 5:39, MT 5:44 Jesus says: "Do not resist evil. Love your enemies."
MT 6:15, 12:34, 16:3, 22:18, 23:13-15, 17, 19, 27, 29, 33, MK 7:6, LK 11:40, 44, 12:56 Jesus repeatedly hurls epithets at his opponents.

MT 5:39, MT 5:44 Do not resist evil. Love your enemies.
LK 19:27 God is likened to one who destroys his enemies.

MT 5:39, MT 5:44 Do not resist evil. Love your enemies.
2JN 1:9-11 Shun anyone who does not hold the proper doctrine.
MT 5:43-44, MT 22:39 Love your enemies. Love your neighbor as yourself.
MT 10:5 Go nowhere among the Gentiles nor enter a Samaritan town.

MT 5:45, 7:21 God resides in heaven.
MK 13:32 The angels reside in heaven
AC 7:55, HE 12:2 Jesus is at the right hand of God, in heaven.
1PE 1:3-4 Believers will inherit eternal life in heaven.
MT 24:35, MK 13:31, LK 21:33 Heaven will pass away.

MT 6:13 God might lead us into temptation and it is better avoided.
JA 1:2-3 Temptation is joy.

MT 6:13 Jesus' prayer implies that God might lead us into temptation.
JA 1:13 God tempts no one.

MT 6:25-34, LK 12:22-31 Take no thought for tomorrow. God will take care of you.
1TI 5:8 A man who does not provide for his family is worse than an infidel. (Note: Providing for a family certainly involves taking "thought for tomorrow.")

MT 7:1-2 Do not judge.
MT 7:15-20 Instructions for judging a false prophet.

MT 7:7-8, LK 11:9-10 Ask and it will be given. Seek and you will find.
LK 13:24 Many will try to enter the Kingdom but will be unable.

MT 7:21 Not everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
AC 2:21, RO 10:13 Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
AC 2:39 Those God calls to himself will be saved.

MT 7:21, LK 10:36-37, RO 2:6, 13, JA 2:24 We are justified by works, not by faith.
JN 3:16, RO 3:20-26, EP 2:8-9, GA 2:16 We are justified by faith, not by works.

MT 8:5-12 The centurion himself approaches Jesus to ask to heal his servant.
LK 7:2-10 The centurion sends elders to do the asking.

MT 8:16, LK 4:40 Jesus healed all that were sick.
MK 1:32-34 Jesus healed many (but not all).

MT 8:28-33 Two demoniacs are healed in the Gadarene swine incident.
MK 5:2-16, LK 8:26-36 One demoniac is healed in this incident.

MT 9:18 The ruler's daughter was already dead when Jesus raised her.
LK 8:42 She was dying, but not dead.

MT 10:1-8 Jesus gives his disciples the power to exorcise and heal...
MT 17:14-16 (Yet) the disciples are unable to do so.

MT 10:2, MK 3:16-19 The twelve apostles (disciples) were: Simon (Peter), Andrew his brother, James the son of Zebedee, John his brother, Philip, Bartholemew, Thomas, Matthew the tax collector, James the son of Alphaeus, Thaddaeus (Labbaeus), Simon, and Judas Iscariot.
LK 6:13-16 The above except that Thaddaeus (Labbaeus) is excluded, and Judas the son of James is added (and Judas Iscariot remains).
AC 1:13, 26 Same as MT and MK except that, like LK Thaddaeus (Labbaeus) is excluded, Judas the son of James is included, and Mathias is chosen by the others to replace Judas Iscariot.

MT 10:2, 5-6 Peter was to be an apostle to the Jews and not go near the Gentiles.
AC 15:7 He was an apostle to the Gentiles.

MT 10:10 Do not take sandals (shoes) or staves.
MK 6:8-9 Take sandals (shoes) and staves.

MT 10:34, LK 12:49-53 Jesus has come to bring a sword, fire, and division--not peace.
JN 16:33 Jesus says: "In me you have peace."

MT 10:22, 24:13, MK 13:13 He that endures to the end will be saved.
MK 16:16 He that believes and is baptized will be saved.
JN 3:5 Only he that is born of water and Spirit will be saved.
AC 16:31 He that believes on the Lord Jesus will be saved.
AC 2:21 He that calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.
RO 10:9 He who confesses with his mouth "Jesus is Lord" and believes in his heart that God raised him from the dead will be saved.
1JN 4:7 He who loves is born of God (and presumably will be saved.)

MT 10:28, LK 12:4 Jesus says not to fear men. (Fear God only.)
MT 12:15-16, JN 7:1-10, 8:59, 10:39, 11:53-54 Jesus hid, escaped, went secretly, etc.

MT 11:7-15, 17:12-13 Jesus says that John the Baptist was a prophet, and more.
JN 1:21 John himself says that he is not a prophet, nor is he Elijah.

MT 11:25, MK 4:11-12 Jesus thanks God for hiding some things from the wise while revealing them to "babes." He says that he uses parables so that the meaning of some of his teachings will remain hidden to at least some persons, and specifically so that they will not turn and be forgiven.
MK 4:22 Jesus says that all things should be made known.

MT 11:29 Jesus says that he is gentle (meek) and humble (lowly).
JN 2:15 Jesus makes a whip of cords, drives the money changers from the Temple, overturns their tables, and pours out their coins. (Note: The presence of the money changers in the outer court of the Temple had been authorized by the Temple authorities and was, in fact, a necessity since the Jews would not accept Roman coin for the purchase of sacrifices.)

MT 12:5 Jesus says that the law (OT) states that the priests profane the Sabbath but are blameless. (No such statement is found in the OT.

MT 12:30 Jesus says that those who are not with him are against him.
MK 9:40 Jesus says that those who are not against him are for him.
(Note: This puts those who are indifferent or undecided in the "for him" category in the first instance and in the "against him" category in the second instance.)

MT 12:39, MK 8:12, LK 11:29 Jesus says that he will give no "sign."
JN 3:2, 20:30, AC 2:22 Jesus proceeds to give many such "signs."

MT 13:34, MK 4:34 Jesus addresses the crowds only in parables, so that they would not fully understand. He explains the meaning only to his disciples.
JN 1:1 - 21:25 (Throughout the book of John, unlike the other Gospels, Jesus addresses the crowds in a very straightforward manner. He does not employ parables.)

MT 13:58, MK 6:5 In spite of his faith, Jesus is not able to perform mighty miracles.
MT 17:20, 19:26, MK 9:23, 10:27, LK 17:6, 18:27 Jesus says that anything is possible to him who believes if he has the faith of a grain of mustard seed. All things are possible with God. A mountain can be commanded to move and it will move.

MT 5:37, 15:19, MK 7:22, JN 8:14, 44, 14:6, 18:37 Jesus says that you should answer a plain "yes" or "no," that his purpose is to bear witness to the truth, and that his testimony is true. He equates lying with evil.
JN 7:2-10 Jesus tells his brothers that he is not going to Jerusalem for the Feast of the Tabernacles, then later goes secretly by himself. (Note: The words "not yet" were added to some versions at JN 7:8 in order to alleviate this problem. The context at JN 7:10 makes the deception clear, however.)

MT 16:6, 11 Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
MK 8:15 Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Herod.

MT 16:18 Jesus founds his church on Peter and will give him the keys of the kingdom.
MT 16:23 Jesus calls Peter [a] "Satan" and "a hindrance," and accuses him of being on the side of men rather than that of God.

MT 16:18 Jesus founds his church on Peter and will give him the keys of the kingdom.
AC 15:1-21 James presides over the first Council of Jerusalem and formulates the decree regarding the accepting of Gentiles which is sent to the other churches. (Note: Tradition has it that James was appointed as the first Bishop or Pope, not Peter.)

MT 17:1-2 The Transfiguration occurs six days after Jesus foretells his suffering.
LK 9:28-29 It takes place about eight days afterwards.

MT 20:20-21 The mother of James and John asks Jesus a favor for her sons.
MK 10:35-37 They ask for themselves.

MT 20:23, MK 10:40 Jesus responds that it is not his to give.
MT 28:18, JN 3:35 All authority has been given to Jesus.

MT 20:29-34 Jesus heals two blind men on the way to Jericho.
MK 10:46-52 He heals one blind man.

MT 21:1-17 The sequence was: triumphal entry, cleansing of the temple, Bethany.
MK 11:1-19 Triumphal entry, cleansing of the temple.
LK 19:28-48 Triumphal entry, cleansing of the temple, daily teaching in the temple.
JN 12:1-18 Cleansing of the temple (early in his career), Supper with Lazarus, triumphal entry, no cleansing of the temple following the triumphal entry.

MT 21:2-6, MK 11:2-7, LK 19:30-35 The disciples follow Jesus instructions and bring him the animal (or animals, in the case of MT).
JN 12:14 Jesus finds the animal himself.

MT 21:7 Jesus rides two animals during his triumphal entry.
MK 11:7, LK 19:35, JN 12:14 Only one animal is involved.

MT 21:12-13 The cleansing of the temple occurs at the end of Jesus' career.
JN 2:13-16 It occurs near the beginning of his career.

MT 21:19-20 The fig tree withers immediately after being cursed by Jesus. The disciples notice and are amazed.
MK 11:13-14, 20-21 The disciples first notice that the tree has withered the day following.

MT 23:35 Jesus says that Zacharias (Zechariah) was the son of Barachias (Barachiah).
2CH 24:20 Zacharias was actually the son of Jehoida, the priest.
(Note: The name Barachias, or Barachiah, does not appear in the O.T.)

MT 24:29-33, MK 13:24-29 The coming of the kingdom will be accompanied by signs and miracles.
LK 17:20-21 It will not be accompanied by signs and miracles. It is already within.

MT 25:34 Heaven was prepared before the Ascension of Jesus.
JN 14:2-3 It was prepared after the Ascension of Jesus.

MT 26:6-13, MK 14:3 The anointing of Jesus takes place in Bethany at the house of Simon the leper.
LK 7:36-38 It takes place at the house of a Pharisee in Galilee.

MT 26:7, MK 14:3 The oil is poured on Jesus' head.
LK 7:38, JN 12:3 On his feet.

MT 26:7, MK 14:3, LK 7:37 An unnamed woman does the anointing.
JN 12:3 It is Mary.

MT 28:6-8 The women ran from the tomb "with great joy."
JN 20:1-2 Mary told Peter and the other disciple that the body had been stolen. (Would she feel "great joy" if she thought the body had been stolen?)

MT 26:8 The disciples reproach her.
MK 14:4 "Some" reproach her.
JN 12:4-5 Judas Iscariot reproaches her.

MT 26:14-25, MK 14:10-11, LK 22:3-23 Judas made his bargain with the chief priests before the meal.
JN 13:21-30 After the meal.

MT 26:20-29, MK 14:17-28, JN 13:21-30 Jesus forecasts his betrayal prior to the communion portion of the supper.
LK 22:14-23 After the communion portion.

MT 26:26-29, MK 14:22-25 The order of the communion was: bread, then wine.
LK 22:17-20 It was: wine, then bread.

MT 26:34, LK 22:34, JN 13:38 Peter was to deny Jesus before the cock crowed.
MK 14:30 Before the cock crowed twice.
MK 14:66-72 The cock crows after both the first and second denials.
(Note: These discrepancies have been "translated out" in some Bible versions.)

MT 26:40-45, MK 14:37-41 The disciples fall asleep three times.
LK 22:45 One time.

MT 26:49-50, MK 14:44-46 Jesus is betrayed by Judas with a kiss, then seized.
LK 22:47-48 Jesus anticipates Judas' kiss. No actual kiss is mentioned.
JN 18:2-9 Jesus voluntarily steps forward to identify himself making it completely unnecessary for Judas to point him out. No kiss is mentioned.

MT 26:51, MK 14:47, JN 18:10 The ear of a slave is cut off and left that way.
LK 22:50-51 The severed ear is miraculously healed by Jesus.

MT 26:52 Dispose of swords. All who take the sword will perish by it.
LK 22:36-38 Buy swords.

MT 26:57, MK 14:53, LK 22:54 After his arrest Jesus is first taken to Caiphas, the high priest.
JN 18:13-24 First to Annas, the son-in-law of Caiphas, then to Caiphas.

MT 26:18-20, 57-68, 27:1-2, MK 14:16-18, 53-72, 15:1 Jesus' initial hearing was at night on Passover. In the morning he was taken to Pilate.
LK 22:13-15, 54-66 The initial hearing took place in the morning on Passover.
JN 18:28, 19:14 It took place the day before Passover, on the Day of Preparation.

MT 26:59-66, MK 14:55-64 Jesus was tried by the entire Sanhedrin (the chief priests and the whole council).
LK 22:66-71 There was no trial but merely an inquiry held by the Sanhedrin.
JN 18:13-24 There was no appearance before the Sanhedrin, only the private hearings before Annas and then Caiphas.

MT 26:63, LK 22:70 The high priest asks Jesus if he is the Son of God.
MK 14:61 He asks Jesus if he is the Son of the Blessed.

MT 26:64, LK 22:70 Jesus answers: "You have said so," or words to this effect.
MK 14:62 He answers directly: "I am."

MT 26:69-70 Peter makes his first denial to a maid and "them all."
MK 14:66-68, LK 22:56-57, JN 18:17 It was to one maid only.

MT 26:71-72 Peter's second denial is to still another maid.
MK 14:69-70 (Apparently) to the same maid.
LK 22:58 To a man, not a maid.
JN 18:25 To more than one, "they."

MT 26:73-74, MK 14:70-71 Peter's third denial is to bystanders (two or more).
LK 22:59-60 To "another" (one).
JN 18:26-27 To one of the servants.

MT 26:74 The cock crowed once.
MK 14:72 The cock crowed twice.

MT 27:3-7 The chief priests bought the field.
AC 1:16-19 Judas bought the field.

MT 27:5 Judas threw down the pieces of silver, then departed.
AC 1:18 He used the coins to buy the field.

MT 27:5 Judas hanged himself.
AC 1:18 He fell headlong, burst open, and his bowels gushed out.

MT 27:11, MK 15:2, LK 23:3 When asked if he is King of the Jews, Jesus answers: "You have said so," (or "Thou sayest").
JN 18:33-34 He answers: "Do you say this of your own accord?"

MT 27:11-14 Jesus answers not a single charge at his hearing before Pilate.
JN 18:33-37 Jesus answers all charges at his hearing before Pilate.

MT 27:20 The chief priests and elders are responsible for persuading the people to ask for the release of Barabbas.
MK 15:11 Only the chief priests are responsible.
LK 23:18-23 The people ask, apparently having decided for themselves.

MT 27:28 Jesus is given a scarlet robe (a sign of infamy).
MK 15:17, JN 19:2 A purple robe (a sign of royalty).

MT 27:32, MK 15:21, LK 23:26 Simon of Cyrene carries Jesus' cross.
JN 19:17 Jesus carries his own cross with no help from anyone.

MT 27:37 The inscription on the cross read: "This is Jesus the King of the Jews."
MK 15:26 "The King of the Jews."
LK 23:38 "This is the King of the Jews."
JN 19:19 "Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews."

MT 27:44 Both of those who are crucified with Jesus taunt him.
LK 23:39-42 Only one taunts Jesus, and he is rebuked by the other for doing so.

MT 27:46 Jesus asks God, the Father, why he has been forsaken.
JN 10:30 Jesus says that he and the Father are one.

MT 27:46-50, MK 15:34-37 Jesus' last recorded words are: "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"
LK 23:46 "Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit."
JN 19:30 "It is finished." (Note: Even though both MT and MK represent direct quotes and are translated similarly, the actual Greek words used for God are different. MT uses "Eli" and MK uses "Eloi.")

MT 27:48, LK 23:36, JN 19:29 Jesus was offered vinegar to drink.
MK 15:23 It was wine and myrrh, and he did not drink it.
JN 19:29-30 Whatever it was, he did drink it.

MT 27:54 The centurion says: "Truly this was the son of God."
MK 15:39 He says: "Truly this man was the son of God!"
LK 23:47 He says: "Truly this man was innocent" (or "righteous").

MT 27:55, MK 15:40, LK 23:49 The women looked on from afar.
JN 19:25-26 They were near enough that Jesus could speak to his mother.

MT 27:62-66 A guard was placed at the tomb (the day following the burial).
MK 15:42- 16:8, LK 23:50-56, JN 19:38-42 (No guard is mentioned. This is important since rumor had it that Jesus' body was stolen and the Resurrection feigned.)
MK 16:1-3, LK 24:1 (There could not have been a guard, as far as the women were concerned, since they were planning to enter the tomb with spices. Though the women were aware of the stone, they were obviously unaware of a guard.)

MT 24:9 Even some of the disciples of Jesus will be killed.
JN 8:51 If anyone keeps Jesus' words, he will never see death.
HE 9:27 [All] men die once, then judgement follows.

MT 28:1 The first visitors to the tomb were Mary Magdalene and the other Mary (two).
MK 16:1 Both of the above plus Salome (three).
LK 23:55 - 24:1, 24:10 Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and "other women" (at least five).
JN 20:1 Mary Magdalene only (one).

MT 28:1 It was toward dawn when they arrived.
MK 16:2 It was after sunrise.
LK 24:1 It was at early dawn.
JN 20:1 It was still dark.

MT 28:1-2 The stone was still in place when they arrived. It was rolled away later.
MK 16:4, LK 24:2, JN 20:1 The stone had already been rolled (or taken) away.

MT 28:2 An angel arrived during an earthquake, rolled back the stone, then sat on it (outside the tomb).
MK 16:5 No earthquake, only one young man sitting inside the tomb.
LK 24:2-4 No earthquake. Two men suddenly appear standing inside the tomb.
JN 20:12 No earthquake. Two angels are sitting inside the tomb.

MT 28:8 The visitors ran to tell the disciples.
MK 16:8 They said nothing to anyone.
LK 24:9 They told the eleven and all the rest.
JN 20:10-11 The disciples returned home. Mary remained outside, weeping.

MT 28:8-9 Jesus' first Resurrection appearance was fairly near the tomb.
LK 24:13-15 It was in the vicinity of Emmaus (seven miles from Jerusalem).
JN 20:13-14 It was right at the tomb.

MT 28:9 On his first appearance to them, Jesus lets Mary Magdalene and the other Mary hold him by his feet.
JN 20:17 On his first appearance to Mary, Jesus forbids her to touch him since he has not yet ascended to the Father.
JN 20:27 A week later, although he has not yet ascended to the Father, Jesus tells Thomas to touch him.

MT 28:7-10, MT 28:16 Although some doubted, the initial reaction of those that heard the story was one of belief since they followed the revealed instructions.
MK 16:11, LK 24:11 The initial reaction was one of disbelief. All doubted.

MT 28:1-18 The order of Resurrection appearances was: Mary Magdalene and the other Mary, then the eleven.
MK 16:9-14 It was Mary Magdalene, then two others, then the eleven.
LK 24:15-36 It was two, then Simon (Peter?), then the eleven.
JN 20:14 - 21:1 It was Mary Magdalene, then the disciples without Thomas, then the disciples with Thomas, then the eleven disciples again.
1CO 15:5-8 It was Cephas (Peter?), then the "twelve" (which twelve, Judas was dead?), then 500+ brethren (although AC 1:15 says there were only about 120), then James, then all the Apostles, then Paul.

MT 28:19 Jesus instructs his disciples to baptize.
1CO 1:17 Although he considers himself a disciple of Jesus, Paul says that he has not been sent to baptize.

MK 1:2 Jesus quotes a statement that allegedly appears in Isaiah. No such statement appears in Isaiah. (Note: IS 40.3 is seen by some as equivalent to MK 1.2; MA 3.1 is a much better fit, however, given that Jesus is allegedly quoting word for word in MK 1:2.)

MK 1:14 Jesus began his ministry after the arrest of John the Baptist.
JN 3:22-24 Before the arrest of John the Baptist.

MK 1:23-24 A demon cries out that Jesus is the Holy One of God.
1JN 4:1-2 Everyone who confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God. (Note: This would mean that the demon is of God.)

MK 3:29 Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is an unforgivable sin.
AC 13:39, CN 2:13, 1JN 1:9 All sins are forgivable.

MK 4:11-12, 11:25 Jesus says that he uses parables so that the meaning of some of his teachings will remain secret to at least some persons. He explains the meanings of the parables only to his disciples. He thanks God for hiding some things from the wise while revealing them to "babes."
JN 18:20 Jesus says that he always taught openly, never secretly.

MK 6:16 Herod was the source of the belief that John had been raised from the dead.
LK 9:7 Others were the source. Herod was perplexed by the belief.

MK 6:52 The people were so unimpressed with "the Feeding of the Multitude" that they did not even understand the event.
JN 6:14-15 They were so impressed that they tried to force Jesus to be their king.

MK 6:53 After the feeding of the 5000, Jesus and the disciples went to Gennesaret.
JN 6:17-25 They went to Capernaum.

MK 10:19 Jesus lists "defraud not" as one of the commandments.
EX 20:3-17 There is no such commandment in the Ten Commandments or elsewhere in the OT)

MK 15:25 It was the third hour when Jesus was crucified.
JN 19:14-15 It was after the sixth hour since Jesus was still before Pilate and had not yet been sentenced at that time.

MK 16:1-2 The women came to the tomb to anoint the body.
JN 19:39-40 The body had already been anointed and wrapped in linen cloth.

MK 16:5, LK 24:3 The women actually entered the tomb.
JN 20:1-2, 11 They did not.

MK 16:14-19 The Ascension took place (presumably from a room) while the disciples were together seated at a table, probably in or near Jerusalem.
LK 24:50-51 It took place outdoors, after supper, at Bethany (near Jerusalem).
AC 1:9-12 It took place outdoors, after 40+ days, at Mt. Olivet.
MT 28:16-20 No mention is made of an ascension, but if it took place at all, it must have been from a mountain in Galilee since MT ends there.)

LK 1:15 John the Baptist had the Holy Spirit from before his birth or the birth of Jesus.
LK 1:41 Elizabeth had it long before Jesus went away.
LK 1:67 So did Zechariah.
LK 2:25 So did Simeon.
LK 11:13 It is obtained by prayer (presumably at any time).
JN 7:39, JN 16:7, AC 1:3-5 The Holy Spirit cannot come into the world until after Jesus has departed.

LK 8:12 The Devil causes unbelief.
MK 4:11-12 Jesus is responsible for unbelief in at least some cases.
2TH 2:11-12 God is ultimately responsible for unbelief in at least some cases.

LK 14:26 No one can be a disciple of Jesus unless he hates his parents, wife, children, brothers and sisters.
1JN 3:15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer.
1JN 4:20 If anyone claims to love God but hates his brother, he is a liar.

LK 18:9-14 Do not boast of your virtue.
RO 11:20, 1PE 5:5 Do not be proud.
RO 15:17, 2CO 1:12, HE 3:6, 2CO 2:14, 5:12, 11:17 Paul boasts of his faith and says that one should be proud of it.

LK 22:3-23 Satan entered Judas before the supper.
JN 13:27 It was during the supper.

LK 23:43 Jesus promises one of those crucified with him that they will be together, that very day, in Paradise.
JN 20:17, AC 1:3 Jesus was not raised until the third day and did not ascend until at least forty days later.

LK 23:55-56 The women followed Joseph to the tomb, saw how the body had been laid, then went to prepare spices with which to anoint the body.
JN 19:39-40 Joseph brought spices with him (75 or a 100 lbs.) and annointed the body (as the women should have noticed).

JN 1:1, 10:30 Jesus and God are one.
JN 14:28 God is greater than Jesus.

JN 1:1 Jesus was God incarnate.
AC 2:22 Jesus was a man approved by God.

JN 3:17, 8:15, 12:47 Jesus does not judge.
JN 5:22, 5:27-30, 9:39, AC 10:42, 2CO 5:10 Jesus does judge.

JN 5:22 God does not judge.
RO 2:2-5, 3:19, 2TH 1:5, 1PE 1:17 God does judge.

JN 5:24 Believers do not come into judgement.
MT 12:36, RO 5:18, 2CO 5:10, HE 9:27, 1PE 1:17, JU 1:14-15, RE 20:12-13 All persons (including believers) come into judgement.

JN 5:31 Jesus says that if he bears witness to himself, his testimony is not true.
JN 8:14 Jesus says that even if he bears witness to himself, his testimony is true.

JN 5:38-47 Men have a choice as to whether or not to receive Jesus.
JN 6:44 No one can come to Jesus unless he is drawn by the Father.

JN 7:38 Jesus quotes a statement that he says appears in scripture (i.e., the OT).
(No such statement is found in the OT.)

JN 10:27-29 None of Jesus' followers will be lost.
1TI 4:1 Some of them will be lost.

JN 12:31 The Devil is the ruler (or "prince") of this world.
1CO 10:26, RE 1:5 Jesus is the ruler of kings--the earth is his.

JN 12:32 Jesus implies that all persons will be saved.
1TI 2:3-4, 2PE 3:9 God wants all to be saved.
JN 12:40, AC 2:21, 2:39, RO 9:27, 10:13 Some will not be saved.
RE 14:1-4 Heaven will be inhabited by 144,000 virgin men (only?).

JN 13:36 Peter asks Jesus where he is going.
JN 14:5 Thomas does the same.
JN 16:5 Jesus says that none of them have asked him where he is going.

JN 17:12 Jesus has lost none of his disciples other than Judas.
JN 18:9 Jesus has lost none, period.

JN 17:12 Mentions a "son of perdition" as appearing in scripture (meaning the OT).
(Note: There is no "son of perdition" mentioned in the OT.)

JN 18:37 Jesus came into the world to bear witness to the truth.
RO 1:18-20 The truth has always been evident.

JN 20:9 Jesus quotes a statement that he says appears in scripture (meaning the OT). (No such statement is found in the OT.)

JN 20:22 In his first resurrection appearance before the assembled disciples, Jesus gives them the Holy Spirit.
AC 1:3-5, AC 2:1-4 The Holy Spirit was received much later (on Pentecost.)

JN 21:25 The world probably could not contain the books if all that Jesus did were to be recorded.
AC 1:1 The author of Acts has already written about all that Jesus began to do.

AC 5:19, 12:6-11 The disciples take part in a jailbreak made possible by an angel.
AC 5:40-42 The disciples disobey the Council and continue to teach and preach Jesus.
RO 13:1-4, 1PE 2:13-15 Obey the laws of men (i.e., government). It is the will of God.

AC 5:29 Obey God, not men.
RO 13:1-4, 1PE 2:13-15 Obey the laws of men (i.e., government). It is the will of God.

AC 9:7 Those present at Paul's conversion heard the voice but saw no one.
AC 22:9 They saw a light but did not hear a voice.

AC 9:7 Those present at Paul's conversion stood.
AC 26:14 They fell to the ground.

AC 9:19-28 Shortly after his conversion, Paul went to Damascus, then Jerusalem where he was introduced to the Apostles by Barnabas, and there spent some time with them (going in and out among them).
GA 1:15-20 He made the trip three years later, then saw only Peter and James.

AC 9:23 The governor attempted to seize Paul.
2CO 11:32 It was the Jews who tried to seize Paul.

AC 10:34, RO 2:11 God shows no partiality. He treats all alike.
RO 9:11-13 God hated Esau and loved Jacob even before their birth.

AC 10:34, RO 2:11 God shows no partiality. He treats all alike.
RO 9:18 God has mercy on whoever he chooses, etc.

AC 16:6 The Holy Spirit forbids preaching in Asia.
AC 19:8-10 Paul preaches in Asia anyway.

AC 20:35 Quotes Jesus as having said: "It is more blessed to give than to receive." (No such statement of Jesus is found elsewhere in the Bible.)

RO 2:12 All who have sinned without the law will perish without the law.
RO 4:15 Where there is no law there is no transgression (sin).

RO 2:13 Doers of the law will be justified.
RO 3:20, GA 3:11 They will not be justified.

RO 2:15 The law is written on the heart. Conscience teaches right from wrong.
1JN 2:27 Anointing by Jesus teaches right from wrong.

RO 4:9 Faith was reckoned to Abraham as righteousness.
JA 2:21 Abraham was justified by works (which made his faith perfect).

RO 10:11 (An alleged OT quote; no such statement in the OT.)

RO 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor anything that might cause your brother to stumble or be offended.
CN 2:16 Let no one pass judgement on you in matters of food and drink.

1CO 7:8-9 Widows should not marry (although it is better to marry than burn).
1TI 5:14 Young widows should marry, bear children, rule the household, etc..

1CO 8:4 There is only one God.
2CO 4:4 Satan is God of this world (therefore there are at least two gods).

1CO 10:33 Paul says that he tries to please men (so they might be saved).
GA 1:10 Paul says he would not be a servant of Christ if he tried to please men.

2CO 12:16 Paul says that he does use trickery.
1TH 2:3 Paul says that he does not use trickery.

GA 6:2 Bear one another's burdens.
GA 6:5 Bear your own burden.

1TH 2:2 God gave Paul the courage to continue his work.
1TH 2:17-18 Satan hindered Paul.
(Note: Who is stronger, Satan or God?)

1TI 1:15 Paul says that he is the foremost of sinners.
1JN 3:8-10 He who commits sin is of the Devil. Children of God do not sin.

TI 6:20, 2TI 2:14-16, 3:1-7 Do not argue with an unbeliever.
2JN 1:10-11 Anyone who even greets an unbeliever shares his wicked work.
1PE 3:15 Always be ready to answer any man concerning your faith.

JA 4:5 (Quotes an alleged scripture (OT) verse; not found in the OT.)

RE 8:7 All of the grass on earth is burned up, and then ...
REV 9:4 An army of locusts, which is about to be turned loose on the earth, is instructed not to harm the grass.

[Seshmeister]

If the bible is the word of god I think he drinks more than I do...:)

[ELVIS]

Hmmm...
:elvis:

[BigBadBrian]

HOLLYWOOD (Box Office Mojo) – The Passion of the Christ is performing far beyond the lofty expectations even its $26.6 million Wednesday suggested, let alone what anyone thought prior to its release.

In just three days, the tally for Mel Gibson's $30 million "Passion play" has soared to $64.6 million and by Sunday it should ascend to over $110 million – becoming the No. 1 movie of 2004 and the fifth-biggest 5-day opener ever.

Breaking down The Passion's incredible haul, it took in $26.6 million on Wednesday (including $3 million of Monday and Tuesday church previews), playing on 4,643 screens at 3,006 theaters. It eased 44% on Thursday to $14.8 million, or 37% when excluding the preview grosses from Wednesday. That's a modest drop when the norm for an uber-Wednesday opener is to fall in the 50% range as movies like The Return of the King and The Phantom Menace did.

On Friday, The Passion expanded slightly to 4,793 screens at 3,043 theaters. Business surged 57% to an estimated $23.2 million, essentially matching the Wednesday take – another unlikely feat for a movie performing at these levels. Despite three new wide releases entering the marketplace -- Twisted, Dirty Dancing: Havana Nights and Club Dread -- The Passion still accounted for over half of all tickets sold.

The Friday gross suggests that The Passion's opening weekend (Friday-Sunday) will hit close to $75 million, landing in the top 10 of all bows and setting a new February benchmark and the record for a movie debuting outside the summer ( May-August) and holiday ( November-December) seasons. Hannibal is the previous title holder, devouring $58.0 million out of the gate in February 2001.

The Passion should prove to be the most successful movie of Gibson's career. Signs was his previous commercial high point in terms of opening weekend and total gross. Also containing a religious theme, it bowed to $60.1 million at 3,264 theaters and ended up with $228.0 million by the end of its run.

[Cathedral]

Sesh, your first example is as far as i needed to go...

GE 1:3-5 On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness.
GE 1:14-19 The sun (which separates night and day) wasn't created until the fourth day.

Genesis 1:3
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

This light was not the "sun", for it will not be present until the fourth day of creation. This "light" would divide the darkness, and so there would be that choice in this world age, to choose light or to choose darkness. The choice is ours. Here's your light:

John 8:12
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.


Sesh, this is enough to prove to me that you have been misled and should really strudy the bible without prejudice which you clearly have. There are answers to those things you call "inconsistencies", you are just to busy walking in the darkness to see it before you...

[Cathedral]

Oh heck, i'll go ahead and knock this one down too, lol...

GE 1:11-12, 26-27 Trees were created before man was created.
GE 2:4-9 Man was created before trees were created.



Let's talk about TREES.

Trees are used throughout the Bible to symbolize people, including the children of God, Satan, Jesus Christ and even God the Father, who likens Himself to an "evergreen" fir tree in Hosea 14:8.

So before we go any further in the Word of God we must learn to tell the difference between a "tree" and a "person", between a tree trunk and the trunk of a person's body, between tree limbs and human limbs, between the branches of a vine and the people they represent. It is in fact, with just a little observation, very easy to make these distinctions.

It would serve a person well to do a study of trees in the Bible, for there are many passages where trees are used symbolically to represent people. You could start by reading the account of Nebuchadnezzar's dream in chapter four of Daniel and the interpretation thereof. It is a great example of "tree symbology".

However, we will focus on identifying the "trees" in the garden of Eden. The following passage from the Book of Ezekiel will document without refute, not only that trees are used symbolically in the Bible to represent people including Satan, but specifically those persons present in the garden of Eden!

Ezekiel 31:3-12
Behold, the Assyrian was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the thick boughs.

The Hebrew word for "Assyrian" used here is te'ashshur and it means "a box tree". It represents Satan, a plain old box cedar who wants to become the greatest tree of all, as we will see in a few verses.

[4] The waters made him great, the deep set him up on high with her rivers running round about his plants, and sent out her little rivers unto all the trees of the field.

[5] Therefore his height was exalted above all the trees of the field, and his boughs were multiplied, and his branches became long because of the multitude of waters, when he shot forth.

You should start to get the sense that we are not talking about actual trees. Verse 10 of this same chapter shows that this "tree" exalted himself above all the others. Let's keep reading.

[6] All the fowls of heaven made their nests in his boughs, and under his branches did all the beasts of the field bring forth their young, and under his shadow dwelt all great nations.

Wow! That must be some giant tree, with a shadow big enough for all great nations to dwell under!

[7] Thus was he fair in his greatness, in the length of his branches: for his root was by great waters.

[8] The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were not like his boughs, and the chesnut trees were not like his branches; nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty.

No tree (person) in the garden of God could compare in beauty to this one. Trees = people. Again, this is not difficult at all.

[9] I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him.

Of course trees can't envy other trees, nor do they have the brains to know the difference between good and evil! These are characteristics of people, not trees. The trees are symbolic. Remember, trees = people.

Can you now "see" that Satan is referred to as a "tree" in the garden of Eden? Remember, aside from the trees created for food, there are two specific trees mentioned there: 1) the tree of life, and 2) the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

It is ironic that no one seems to have a problem with the "tree of life" symbolizing Jesus Christ.

Rev. 2:7
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

But when we say that the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil", i.e. the tree with evil knowledge, is Satan, that old serpent, the devil, they go "bonkers" and say, "No, it's an apple tree!" Really? The word "apple" does not appear in the entire Book of Genesis.

Let's now examine what Eve told that "glistening one", Satan, in the garden:

Genesis 3:2
And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

Eating physical food, nuts and fruits, is OK.

But it is spiritual food (bad fruit) that can kill your soul. Don't you see that "life" is the subject in verse three? The consequence of eating "bad fruit" from a corrupt tree is "lest you die", i.e. death!

You can eat all the "bread" you want, but you better partake of the "bread of life" if you want to live forever. Christ is that "bread". He is that "tree of life". If you eat of the "leaven" of the scribes and Pharisees, you'll die. It's bad bread! Beware! Here is Christ's own words:

Matthew 16:11
How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?

Matthew 16:12
Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Christ said, "get your mind off of physical bread and elevate your thinking to that which is important, i.e. beware of the poison leaven of the bread of the scribes and Pharisees".

The same thought process must apply here to the trees in Genesis or you'll miss the point.

Genesis 3:3
But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

But, you ask, if the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, which is in the midst of the garden, is Satan, what is the fruit spoken of here?

It is real simple. Fruit is that which is "produced" by a tree. Here is what Christ said:

Luke 6:43-44
For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. [44] For every tree is known by his own fruit...

Question! Is Christ talking about trees or people? Good, you've got it!

So the instruction to Adam and Eve is quite simple, "Do not partake of the fruit produced by the evil, corrupt, tree, which is in the midst of the garden!" In fact, don't even "touch" it, lest ye become seduced.

Finally, as background to understand that which is about to happen in the fig grove, look up the Hebrew word that is translated "touch" in verse 3. The word is naga and it means not just to "lay the hand upon" but it is an euphemism for "to lie with a woman". Check it out in a Strong's concordance.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
If the bible is the word of god I think he drinks more than I do...:)


I doubt that, maybe it is time to think about giving up the drink my friend.
You have what you say and your tongue is working against you spiritually.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Cathedral
I doubt that, maybe it is time to think about giving up the drink my friend.
You have what you say and your tongue is working against you spiritually.

I'll drink to that. :gulp:

[Seshmeister]

Let him without sin post the first insult!:)

[Cathedral]

Na, I love ya to much to insult ya my brother.....

[rustoffa]

I'm gonna go test my fingernail clippings from five hours ago with carbon 14.

[Jesus Christ]

A few things I would like to clear up, My children.....

Neither My hand nor My Dad's literally wrote one word of the Bible. Which means that everything written in there is filtered through the perspectives of mortal men. The Old Testament scriptures in particular were stories which were told verbally for generations before there was a written language. And verily, ye all know what happens to stories which pass from one ear unto another.

Even My own words, as relayed in the four Gospels, vary slightly depending on whether ye are reading the account of Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John. This does not mean they are lying or that I was inconsistent - after all, I only made the statements once - but merely that 4 different perspectives were used to sell the same story. Verily, any routine traffic accident with 4 different witnesses would produce varying stories. Not to mention Luke's account was second hand to begin with.

Sesh, thy post was nearly as long as the Scriptures themselves. If ye hath put so much time into studying them, then why do ye not follow My teachings? :(

As for drinking, it is no secret that I turned water into wine in order to keep My cousin's wedding reception going. Actually, I did this miracle at My Mom's request and wasn't going to do it at first, because I didn't want to call attention to Myself at that time. The point here is that there are times for celebration and at those times, there is nothing wrong with drinking,in moderation. But those who make alcohol their lives, that is indeed a sin, and will lead to their destruction :(

Any other questions for the Lord, just let Me know....

[Cathedral]

No Thanks, I won't be taking part in worshipping anyone's golden calf.

Hey Ford, I'd be wearing rubber soled shoes and keepin a keen eye out for lightning if i were you buddy...

Then again, what kind of shoe's you wear won't make any difference when the wrath rains down on you...

[FORD]

Originally posted by Cathedral
No Thanks, I won't be taking part in worshipping anyone's golden calf.

Hey Ford, I'd be wearing rubber soled shoes and keepin a keen eye out for lightning if i were you buddy...

Then again, what kind of shoe's you wear won't make any difference when the wrath rains down on you...

Well, I guess I'm really fucked then, because it rains a lot here and that "blasphemer" who played JC in Mel's movie lives only about an hour or so up the road.

[ELVIS]

Blasphemer ??

[FORD]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Blasphemer ??

Cat is implying that I'm blaspheming the Lord by giving Him a voice on this board. So if that makes me a blasphemer, then that would also apply to anyone who ever played Jesus in a movie, TV series, or whatever. Hell would have to have a seperate section just for "actors who dared to portray Christ".

[knuckleboner]

Originally posted by Cathedral
John 8:12
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.




fyi, cat. i like the reasoning, but i don't think it follows. if you believe that genesis is literally true, then you believe God created the light. however, odds are, the genesis "light" wasn't a reference to Jesus.

i'm don't think that God did not create Jesus. Jesus IS God. the Trinity has always existed. one God in three parts. while God may have created the humanity of Jesus, the Godly nature of Jesus has always existed and was not created on the 1st day, or the 4th day, or any day.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by FORD
Cat is implying that I'm blaspheming the Lord by giving Him a voice on this board. So if that makes me a blasphemer, then that would also apply to anyone who ever played Jesus in a movie, TV series, or whatever. Hell would have to have a seperate section just for "actors who dared to portray Christ".

Dude, do you really think Jesus needs your help?

This reasoning is fundamentally flawed my brother. As far as actors portraying Christ in films, i have no idea how the lord looks upon that.

I would never take that role if i were an actor but i don't have to answer for anyone's sins but my own.
What worries me about what you do is that your mind set is that of a liberal.
You support abortion, you accept those things which Christ clearly thinks are disgusting as far as homosexual relationships....Man, i really don't think you are the best person to represent Christ.
It is pretty cavalier of you to think that you know what Jesus would be saying in the first place.
To me it is nothing more than the gospel according to Dave. and doing it under the quise of Jesus Christ just concerns me, i worry about the consequences for you brother, thats all...

I think it would be best for you to pray for forgiveness and then never sign on as Jesus Christ again.....but that is just my opinion and it is your free will to live as you choose.

I've done my part by speaking up...

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by knuckleboner
fyi, cat. i like the reasoning, but i don't think it follows. if you believe that genesis is literally true, then you believe God created the light. however, odds are, the genesis "light" wasn't a reference to Jesus.

i'm don't think that God did not create Jesus. Jesus IS God. the Trinity has always existed. one God in three parts. while God may have created the humanity of Jesus, the Godly nature of Jesus has always existed and was not created on the 1st day, or the 4th day, or any day.

I don't believe that at all.
When Jesus refers to himself as the Light he is actually saying he is the Good which is seperated from the Darkness, which is Evil.
The light they are talking about here has nothing to do with illumination. It is a spiritual reference...

Light = Goodness
Darkness = Evil

It is not until the sun is created that Light and Dark means the cycle of the earth day.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Cathedral
I don't believe that at all.
When Jesus refers to himself as the Light he is actually saying he is the Good which is seperated from the Darkness, which is Evil.
The light they are talking about here has nothing to do with illumination. It is a spiritual reference...

Light = Goodness
Darkness = Evil

It is not until the sun is created that Light and Dark means the cycle of the earth day.

I believe Cat is correct on this issue. It's stuff like this that gives Bible-bashers ammo. Not that I'm saying you're one, KB. :)

[knuckleboner]

you're right, BBB, i wasn't trying to really correct cat, either. i was just trying to understand what he meant.


and i completely agree, cat, that that's what Jesus meant about being the light (and the way and the truth...)

but i still don't quite understand what you meant when you brought up Jesus being the light (in the context with God creating the light and darkness in genesis.)

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by knuckleboner
you're right, BBB, i wasn't trying to really correct cat, either. i was just trying to understand what he meant.


and i completely agree, cat, that that's what Jesus meant about being the light (and the way and the truth...)

but i still don't quite understand what you meant when you brought up Jesus being the light (in the context with God creating the light and darkness in genesis.)

Im not sure a follow you. I was using that scripture as an example that the terms light and darkness were not refering to sun and moon type of light and darkness....hmmm, almost confused myself.

Just like the word tree's doesn't always mean the tall thing with leaves.
and how serpent doesn't always mean snake.
Alot of the bible is spoken in figures of speech and i am really disecting Genesis to get the full understanding because some things i have already learned have opened up doors to things that in my opinion are being tought wrong in a large number of churches.

Like if the bible had said that John was in hot water, some people would see it as he was in triuble with god while others would think he literally got into hot water, lol. It was just an example, sorry if i confused you.

[Cathedral]

One thing i found intriguing is that the Hebrew definition for "Traditions" is "Nothing Useful"...

Traditions are going to lead a lot of people in the wrong direction.
Things i have learned on my own and then proved to be right in most cases are contradicting to those things i learned as a kid in Sunday School.
The whole Eve giving Adam an apple deal.......There is absolutely no mention of an apple in the garden of eden.
The Serpent was Satan, a quite attractive angel that seduced Eve physically. The apple, forbidden fruit, was the act of seduction in which she was to have two children. One seed belonging to Adam and the other belonging to Satan....Cain and Abel.

[knuckleboner]

Originally posted by Cathedral
Im not sure a follow you. I was using that scripture as an example that the terms light and darkness were not refering to sun and moon type of light and darkness....hmmm, almost confused myself.

Just like the word tree's doesn't always mean the tall thing with leaves.
and how serpent doesn't always mean snake.
Alot of the bible is spoken in figures of speech and i am really disecting Genesis to get the full understanding because some things i have already learned have opened up doors to things that in my opinion are being tought wrong in a large number of churches.

Like if the bible had said that John was in hot water, some people would see it as he was in triuble with god while others would think he literally got into hot water, lol. It was just an example, sorry if i confused you.


no, i completely understand now. i thought you were initially implying that the light in day 1 WAS Jesus. i think I was overlly confusing in trying to ask what you meant.

i now see what you were talking about. and i agree that there are figurative portions of the bible.

personally, i think most of geneis is figurative...or more properly an allegory. in my mind, God still intentionally created it all. just not exactly in way that genesis literally states.

[Cathedral]

Which is one huge reason why if we misinterpret genesis we inherently handicap ourselves from understanding other major parts in the bible.

If we start off down the wrong road we will most certainly NOT reach our destination until we re-read the instructions and return to the beginning, lol....Now i'm talking in figures of speech...

[knuckleboner]

it's religion, cat. is there any other way?:D

[Cathedral]

Well it took me 37 years to figure out that i was walking in the Darkness no matter how often i went to church and it only led to rebellion.
I would like to put together a musical ministry and preach the message through music but i cannot do that until i am clear on the scriptures myself.
Ford has asked me many times as Jesus Christ why i don't live by Chirst teachings and until now i didn't have an answer, now i do. It's because i have never had a firm grasp on what his teachings really were, and i still don't. That is exactly why i am studying the way i am now.
It doesn't even pay to talk with a preacher if he is preaching the wrong message.
We have to really want in our hearts to understand and even then we need the grace of God to actually get it.