View Full Version : Florida ends fight against abortion for 13-yr-old
BigBadBrian
05-03-2005, 07:28 PM
Florida ends fight against abortion for 13-yr-old
May 3, 3:12 PM (ET)
By Jim Loney
MIAMI (Reuters) - Florida dropped its fight on Tuesday to prevent a 13-year-old girl in state care from having an abortion in a case that marked the state's second recent foray into controversial personal rights issues.
Weeks after it unsuccessfully tried to intervene in the bitter dispute over the fate of a brain-damaged woman, Terri Schiavo, the state's Department of Children & Families said it would not appeal a ruling from a Palm Beach state court allowing the teenager to have an abortion.
"There will be no further appeals and we will respectfully comply with the court's decision," DCF District Manager Marilyn Munoz said in a written statement.
It was not immediately known if the girl, who is 14 weeks pregnant, had had the abortion.
The case stirred concerns among civil libertarians who argued the child had a constitutional right to decide to have an abortion under state law and condemned the Florida government's attempts to interfere in personal rights.
"You've got to be blind not to see a pattern here," said Howard Simon, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida. "The pattern is the state's hostility to the exercise of personal freedom ... when that personal freedom is not consistent with the prevailing ideology of the state government."
Florida's governor is Jeb Bush, President Bush's younger brother, who was active in trying to keep Schiavo alive and who has said he personally opposes abortion.
"It's a tragedy that a 13-year-old child would be in a vulnerable position where she could be made pregnant and it's a tragedy that her baby will be lost," Jeb Bush said on Tuesday. "There's no good news in this at all."
The child, identified in court only as L.G., is a ward of the state who became pregnant when she ran away from a state-licensed group home. Under Florida law, a 13-year-old cannot consent to sex, making her pregnancy the result of a statutory rape.
LEGAL GUARDIAN SAYS NO
The Department of Children & Families, her legal guardian after her parents' rights were terminated, petitioned the courts to block an abortion, arguing she was not mature enough to make such a choice.
It cited a state statute that says: "In no case shall the department consent to sterilization, abortion or termination of life support."
Florida law, however, allows minors to choose to have abortions. Critics of the DCF action argued that the child's constitutional right overrode any conflicting state statute.
"The constitutional right belongs to the child, and it belongs to the child even if the parents object," said Mary Coombs, a family law professor at the University of Miami. "In this case, DCF didn't have any more right than the parents."
The DCF legal effort marked the second time in recent weeks the state welfare agency had tried to intervene in a high-profile case involving personal rights issues.
It petitioned the courts to take custody of Terri Schiavo, the subject of a controversial right-to-die case in which her parents fought for years against attempts by her husband to remove her feeding tube and allow her to die.
Critics condemned attempts by Jeb Bush to intervene in a family dispute in which courts had repeatedly ruled in favor of Schiavo's husband Michael, who said he was carrying out his wife's wishes. Terri Schiavo died on March 31.
In the abortion case, Palm Beach County Judge Ronald Alvarez, who temporarily blocked the abortion last week, ruled on Monday that the girl could have the procedure over the objections of the DCF, her guardian.
Mathew Staver, president of Orlando, Florida-based Liberty Counsel, a conservative advocacy group, said he was disappointed by the state's decision not to pursue appeals.
"A second opinion is clearly warranted in a case where life and death is at stake," he said. "An appellate court should look at whether or not the girl is mature enough to make a decision like this."
Link (http://reuters.myway.com/article/20050503/2005-05-03T191225Z_01_N03350535_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-RIGHTS-ABORTION-DC.html)
BigBadBrian
05-03-2005, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
LEGAL GUARDIAN SAYS NO
The Department of Children & Families, her legal guardian after her parents' rights were terminated, petitioned the courts to block an abortion, arguing she was not mature enough to make such a choice.
It cited a state statute that says: "In no case shall the department consent to sterilization, abortion or termination of life support."
Florida law, however, allows minors to choose to have abortions. Critics of the DCF action argued that the child's constitutional right overrode any conflicting state statute.
"The constitutional right belongs to the child, and it belongs to the child even if the parents object," said Mary Coombs, a family law professor at the University of Miami. "In this case, DCF didn't have any more right than the parents."
Fucking insane. :mad:
So much for being a parent in Florida. Turn 'em loose.
:gulp:
Seshmeister
05-03-2005, 07:58 PM
I agree with the court wholeheartedly.
4moreyears
05-03-2005, 11:47 PM
Dumbass judges. A kid cant get an aspren without a note from a parent. But in Florida they can make a decision to get an abortion. If she was in the states care what the fuck is she doing pregnant in the first place.
JH
Meanwhile, Back in DeLay land.....
May 2, 2005, 11:28PM
Jackson Lee urges support for ill baby
Lawmaker asks hospitals to treat infant despite terminal diagnosis
By TODD ACKERMAN
Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle
U.S. Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee intervened in Houston's latest end-of-life controversy Monday, asking that a terminally ill infant not be taken off life support.
Jackson Lee appealed to Memorial Hermann Children's and Texas Children's hospitals in the case of Knya Dismuke-Howard, a 6-month-old girl whose leukemia has spread to her brain. After doctors said they'd exhausted all treatment options, a Memorial Hermann ethics committee decided last week to remove her from life support May 9.
Jackson Lee called for Memorial Hermann to reconsider, or for Texas Children's to assume care. "I am concerned the custodial family members are being left out of the decision-making process (during) a difficult and tragic time," Jackson Lee, D-Houston, wrote both hospitals in letters faxed late Monday. "I am pleading on behalf of the baby, for its loved ones and its future."
She met with Memorial Hermann Children's CEO Steve Allen and other physicians on the case Monday night. They told her they would take her plea under advisement.
Texas Children's already had declined Dismuke-Howard's case twice, the second time Monday morning. After reviewing the infant's charts, they said they couldn't provide anything more than what Memorial Hermann was doing. Texas Children's CEO Mark Wallace will send Jackson Lee a letter to that effect today, officials said.
The Dismuke-Howard case marks the third Houston controversy this spring over a 1999 state law that allows hospitals to stop treatment even if the patient's family members disagree. The doctor's recommendation must be approved by the hospital's ethics committee, and family members must be given 10 days written notice of the decision.
Memorial Hermann's ethics committee decided Thursday, five months after diagnosing Dismuke-Howard with leukemia, that further care would be futile. :(
Why aren't DeLay and the BCE all over this one?
I can only guess at the answer.
BigBadBrian
05-04-2005, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
I agree with the court wholeheartedly.
That's because you lack common sense. You've basically said being a guardian means nothing. If a child falls down at school and requires medical treatment, they need a parent's consent. A thirteen year old, however, is free to go and have an abortion without parental consent. Simply ridiculous. The baby killers win again, I suppose. :(
BigBadBrian
05-04-2005, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by FORD
Memorial Hermann's ethics committee decided Thursday, five months after diagnosing Dismuke-Howard with leukemia, that further care would be futile. :(
Why aren't DeLay and the BCE all over this one?
I can only guess at the answer.
OK, guess.
Why wasn't Jackson-Lee all over the other case, one way or the other?
The baby in this case should be given every chance to live. To hell with what doctors say. Bastards. :mad:
Guitar Shark
05-04-2005, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Under Florida law, a 13-year-old cannot consent to sex, making her pregnancy the result of a statutory rape.
LEGAL GUARDIAN SAYS NO
The Department of Children & Families, her legal guardian after her parents' rights were terminated, petitioned the courts to block an abortion, arguing she was not mature enough to make such a choice.
It cited a state statute that says: "In no case shall the department consent to sterilization, abortion or termination of life support."
Florida law, however, allows minors to choose to have abortions.
Frankly I'm not sure where I come out on this one. The Florida laws seem fundamentally inconsistent. A Florida law says that a 13-year old cannot consent to sex, making her pregnancy the result of a statutory rape. But another Florida law provides that minors can choose to have abortions. Why are Florida 13-year-olds mature enough to decide to have an abortion, but not mature enough to consent to sex?? Seems a bit... off.
Nickdfresh
05-04-2005, 12:25 PM
A pregnant 13-year-old ward of the state does seem pretty fucking awful.
4moreyears
05-04-2005, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
A pregnant 13-year-old ward of the state does seem pretty fucking awful.
Seems like the state fucked up in the first place.
American Gypsy
05-04-2005, 12:33 PM
the law provides a vehicle for a minor who was perhaps raped the legal protection needed to abort without facing murder or manslaughter charges.
BigBadBrian
05-04-2005, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by American Gypsy
the law provides a vehicle for a minor who was perhaps raped the legal protection needed to abort without facing murder or manslaughter charges.
You know, I could deal with the situation if it were these possibilities. But it seems according to this article that ANY 13 year old can choose to abort without parental consent.
For me, I'm bitching about the lack of a voice of the parents in a situation such as this. It's not about the abortion for me. Parents are slowly being denied their rights as parents all over this country and society wonders why kids are so fucked up.
DrMaddVibe
05-04-2005, 12:57 PM
Florida is just too far advanced for you people.
We're loosening gun laws, starving disabled people to death, surfing, building more roller coasters, offering abortions to minors...you can't handle it?
Stay in New York!
Nickdfresh
05-04-2005, 12:58 PM
If she's a ward of the state, then her parents are probably drug addicts or something or are otherwise long out of the picture.
American Gypsy
05-04-2005, 01:05 PM
You could write a book about laws that are flaunted in inappropriate ways. Never the less, the process of having an abortion is not quite as simple as it's depicted in 'Fast Times at Ridgemont High'.
A kid can't just go into a clinic and pick one up during lunch.
DrMaddVibe
05-04-2005, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by American Gypsy
You could write a book about laws that are flaunted in inappropriate ways. Never the less, the process of having an abortion is not quite as simple as it's depicted in 'Fast Times at Ridgemont High'.
A kid can't just go into a clinic and pick one up during lunch.
Wanna bet?
It's only Wednesday!
American Gypsy
05-04-2005, 01:19 PM
Is the point 'ok my 13 yr old daughter is pregnant' or ' FUCK, I'm 13 and he's way gone and I fucked up and now I'll never have a normal life anymore'?
If your kid gets pregnant at 13 then maybe you should have kept a closer eye out beforehand. 13 yr olds THINK they know everything and TELL YOU that they know everything ,but, if you have a 13 yr old then you should be grown up enough to know that they are fragile and easily led into tragic situations.
4moreyears
05-04-2005, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by American Gypsy
Is the point 'ok my 13 yr old daughter is pregnant' or ' FUCK, I'm 13 and he's way gone and I fucked up and now I'll never have a normal life anymore'?
If your kid gets pregnant at 13 then maybe you should have kept a closer eye out beforehand. 13 yr olds THINK they know everything and TELL YOU that they know everything ,but, if you have a 13 yr old then you should be grown up enough to know that they are fragile and easily led into tragic situations.
If you remember back to when you were 13 this would be so true.
JH
American Gypsy
05-04-2005, 01:39 PM
For me it is. I see it every morning at the breakfast table.
Seshmeister
05-04-2005, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
You know, I could deal with the situation if it were these possibilities. But it seems according to this article that ANY 13 year old can choose to abort without parental consent.
For me, I'm bitching about the lack of a voice of the parents in a situation such as this. It's not about the abortion for me. Parents are slowly being denied their rights as parents all over this country and society wonders why kids are so fucked up.
Your cause and effect are the wrong way around.
If the parenting has been so poor that the kid ends up pregnant why should the parents have the right to force the kid to have the baby?
They had their chance and blew it.
Cheers!
:gulp:
BigBadBrian
05-04-2005, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
Your cause and effect are the wrong way around.
If the parenting has been so poor that the kid ends up pregnant why should the parents have the right to force the kid to have the baby?
They had their chance and blew it.
Cheers!
:gulp:
Ahh....wait 'til your little ones hit the teenage years. Will you put a GPS device on them so you know where they are all the time? Can you be sure they'll ALWAYS exercise good judgement and follow the guiding principles you taught them? I think not.
A parent should always hold the trump card to bail the child out of a situation. It has been taken away in this case.
:gulp:
Guitar Shark
05-04-2005, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
A parent should always hold the trump card to bail the child out of a situation. It has been taken away in this case.
:gulp:
By "parent" in this case are you referring to the state? Because this girl is a ward of the state and the desires of her birth parents are irrelevant at this point. They must have fucked something up really bad to lose their parental rights. If they're alive at all, that is.
Seshmeister
05-04-2005, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
A parent should always hold the trump card to bail the child out of a situation. It has been taken away in this case.
:gulp:
How the hell does forcing them to have an unwanted child bail them out?
In any case the State was the 'parent' in this case.
Guaranteed 13 years from now history would repeat and the girl would be a grandmother at 26.
Wipe out that gene pool.
The Scatologist
05-05-2005, 03:27 AM
Originally posted by 4moreyears
If you remember back to when you were 13 this would be so true.
JH
Ok, then how about I tell you the following words instead, since 13 for me, was only 6 years ago.
YOU SIR, ARE A DUMBASS!
Guitar Shark
05-06-2005, 12:06 PM
No response BBB?
Originally posted by The Scatologist
Ok, then how about I tell you the following words instead, since 13 for me, was only 6 years ago.
YOU SIR, ARE A DUMBASS!
Are you saying that at 13 they really DO know everything and have the experience on how to handle it?
Originally posted by b1c2
Are you saying that at 13 they really DO know everything and have the experience on how to handle it?
Now what could prompt that question, I wonder?
Geezy fucking Pete, he is 13 now, isn't he? Or will be in a couple months, right?
Time flies, huh :angel:
no, just 12 in a couple of months...and already a black belt. I'm fortunate that he has a good head on his shoulders, so far at least. The little girls that flock around him- now THAT is a different story!
Guitar Shark
05-06-2005, 04:01 PM
I'm lost.
Hollywood Jesus
05-06-2005, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
A parent should always hold the trump card to bail the child out of a situation. It has been taken away in this case.
You are right on the money here, BigBad. Stick to your guns.
Parents/guardians are being denied rights all over the place. As a result, the country goes further down the tubes.
Screw the topic of whether it's abortion or an all-night kegger, the parents need to have say.
What's next? Government gonna take my dog away from me too?
God damn!
Originally posted by Hollywood Jesus
You are right on the money here, BigBad. Stick to your guns.
Parents/guardians are being denied rights all over the place. As a result, the country goes further down the tubes.
Screw the topic of whether it's abortion or an all-night kegger, the parents need to have say.
What's next? Government gonna take my dog away from me too?
God damn!
So if the girl wants to have an abortion because her father got her pregnant and is too afraid to tell anyone, that same parent should have the right to make her carry the child to term and further ruin her life?
Not everything is cut and dry. There are always screwed up situations that throw us a curve. Since the girl is 13 and in state custody it IS possible she came from an abusive home. Maybe it isn't the case this time but it could be SOME time.
Nickdfresh
05-06-2005, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by Hollywood Jesus
You are right on the money here, BigBad. Stick to your guns.
Parents/guardians are being denied rights all over the place. As a result, the country goes further down the tubes.
Screw the topic of whether it's abortion or an all-night kegger, the parents need to have say.
What's next? Government gonna take my dog away from me too?
God damn!
I think we established that there are NO PARENTS in this case, they were stripped of guardianship which means they are two gigantic pieces of shit in all likelihood.
Originally posted by b1c2
So if the girl wants to have an abortion because her father got her pregnant and is too afraid to tell anyone, that same parent should have the right to make her carry the child to term and further ruin her life?
Not everything is cut and dry. There are always screwed up situations that throw us a curve. Since the girl is 13 and in state custody it IS possible she came from an abusive home. Maybe it isn't the case this time but it could be SOME time.
Careful, now.... Somebody around here might accuse you of being a Liberal ;)
Originally posted by FORD
Careful, now.... Somebody around here might accuse you of being a Liberal ;)
Well, they sure as hell can't call me a republican anymore! Damn I'm glad I didn't get that elephant tattoo!
Originally posted by b1c2
Well, they sure as hell can't call me a republican anymore! Damn I'm glad I didn't get that elephant tattoo!
Maybe it's time to start our own political party like we used to talk about? God knows I've had it with the Hillary/Pelosi/Kerry wing of the Democratic party :(
Originally posted by FORD
Maybe it's time to start our own political party like we used to talk about? God knows I've had it with the Hillary/Pelosi/Kerry wing of the Democratic party :(
I wouldn't even know where to begin to clean this mess up. I'm so frustrated by our society anymore. I miss the days when all we had to worry about was when Dave was coming back!
Originally posted by b1c2
I wouldn't even know where to begin to clean this mess up. I'm so frustrated by our society anymore. I miss the days when all we had to worry about was when Dave was coming back!
The only way to begin is to counter-act the bullshit, the corporate media spawned lies that are decieving so many people into believing this crap.
I believe that the people would work to change this country, if they truly realized what they have already lost.
Originally posted by FORD
The only way to begin is to counter-act the bullshit, the corporate media spawned lies that are decieving so many people into believing this crap.
I believe that the people would work to change this country, if they truly realized what they have already lost.
Maybe we should take this to PM before it turns into the ford/b1 bitch thread.
Originally posted by b1c2
Maybe we should take this to PM before it turns into the ford/b1 bitch thread.
Actually, I have to get to a meeting right now, but I'll PM you later, or e mail or something. Take care, :angel:
PM me. My email has changed. Catch me up w/everyone-family, L & J, YOU!
BigBadBrian
05-06-2005, 05:18 PM
Originally posted by FORD
The only way to begin is to counter-act the bullshit, the corporate media spawned lies that are decieving so many people into believing this crap.
I believe that the people would work to change this country, if they truly realized what they have already lost.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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