Shredders or One note magicians ?

[Panamark]

Tough call..

As a guitarist, a shredder playing 1000 notes a second
across a six string sweep, pretty much gives me wood...
But melodically Im not sure it leaves an impression..

Then you hear classic slower solos where a single note
might be bent, pulled on/off, vibrato, muffled, pinched
tremelo... and you suddenly realize how single notes can be just
as powerful a statement.

Is this because the slower solos are more like a human
singing ??? (I would like to hear any human attempt to
sing an Ynwie solo :D )

Do we relate more to the melodic emotion behind a
crying single note, than a flurry of notes in a scale ???

Im finding that the older I get, the more Im appreciating
the slower stuff. (Dave gilmour type stuff) But theres always
that huge adrenalin rush of a well executed shred..

Whats your preference ??

Ive stopped tapping these days as it feels clich'ed and
a bit like Im wanking off.. Anyone else on this trip ??

Shred or melody ??

Which is the real king of the guitar solo ?

[Soul Reaper]

Dave Gilmour is a prime example of taste over speed!

[Soul Reaper]

But players like Yngwie Malmsteen and Steve Vai are still amazing!

[Don Corleone]

I tend to go for the middle ground these days. I think you can use the shred techniques: tapping, trem picking etc so long as it is used in the right context, and is right for the song. Players like Adrian Smith are great examples of this, his solo's always seem to complement the song without being too flashy.

[Soul Reaper]

George Lynch is a great example of blending fast and slow!

[Jérôme Frenchise]

Originally posted by Don Corleone
I tend to go for the middle ground these days. I think you can use the shred techniques: tapping, trem picking etc so long as it is used in the right context, and is right for the song. Players like Adrian Smith are great examples of this, his solo's always seem to complement the song without being too flashy.

I agree. Though I'm a poor guitarist (always played on "my" guitarists or buddies' guitars, but I'm left-handed... just for that activity! :D ), I can say that playing guitar parts that are uninterrupted torrents of notes without nuances sound boring IMO. Too simple all the way through isn't my cup of tea either. :cool:

The best thing I think is compromise: varying speed, flow, touch, intensity, space, sounds...
Just like my all-time favs, Eric Clapton, Jeff Beck, Pete Townshend, Jimi Hendrix, Jimmy Page, Mick Taylor, Johnny Winter, Billy Gibbons, Rory Gallagher, J. Geils, Angus Young, and... EVH. :)

All of them never aim at stuffing your ears from beginning to end of a track. Measure... :cool:

[Hoongood]

Originally posted by Soul Reaper
George Lynch is a great example of blending fast and slow!


That is exactly what I have always thought about Lynch. He plays really fast licks that are melodic.

[Soul Reaper]

Originally posted by Hoongood
That is exactly what I have always thought about Lynch. He plays really fast licks that are melodic.

i'm glad you agree. he's underrated by many people. he's just seen as a shredder

[Jérôme Frenchise]

Originally posted by Soul Reaper
i'm glad you agree. he's underrated by many people. he's just seen as a shredder

I weckon I will weally lool like a weal ignowamus, but would you mind telling me mowe about this Geowge Lynch? I am gweedy fow infowmation fow this all sounds vewy intwisting. :)

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by Panamark
Tough call..

As a guitarist, a shredder playing 1000 notes a second
across a six string sweep, pretty much gives me wood...
But melodically Im not sure it leaves an impression..

Then you hear classic slower solos where a single note
might be bent, pulled on/off, vibrato, muffled, pinched
tremelo... and you suddenly realize how single notes can be just
as powerful a statement.

Is this because the slower solos are more like a human
singing ??? (I would like to hear any human attempt to
sing an Ynwie solo :D )

Do we relate more to the melodic emotion behind a
crying single note, than a flurry of notes in a scale ???

Im finding that the older I get, the more Im appreciating
the slower stuff. (Dave gilmour type stuff) But theres always
that huge adrenalin rush of a well executed shred..

Whats your preference ??

Ive stopped tapping these days as it feels clich'ed and
a bit like Im wanking off.. Anyone else on this trip ??

Shred or melody ??

Which is the real king of the guitar solo ? It´s way easier for a shredder to slow down and add some bends than it is for a "crying single note" player to speed it up.

I know, I´m a dedicated shredder myself.

[DrMaddVibe]

Originally posted by Soul Reaper
Dave Gilmour is a prime example of taste over speed!

Awesome example!

I'd thrrow Beck, Hendrix and SRV up as well. Neither really shred it up like Vai, Rhodes or Satch but their music is more palettable to me personally.

I like and admire those that shred but it gets old real quick with me. I prefer melody because it takes more of a band feel and envelopes sound where as shredders go for speed and can get sloppy.

[Hoongood]

Originally posted by Jérôme Frenchise
but would you mind telling me mowe about this Geowge Lynch? I am gweedy fow infowmation fow this all sounds vewy intwisting. :)


Lynch played for Dokken in the glory days. I was just listening to Back for the Attack last week and the guy is an awesome guitarist.

Dokken never really made it to the upper tier of bands in popluarity back in the 80s. Now they have been categorized as a "hair band" and thrown on the scrap heap of music history.

It is a shame that Dokken never got their due when much less talented bands like Poison and Bon Jovi, not to mention pure dog shit like Nirvana hit it big.

Lyncy deserves a lot more respect.

[Jérôme Frenchise]

Originally posted by Hoongood
Lynch played for Dokken in the glory days. I was just listening to Back for the Attack last week and the guy is an awesome guitarist.

Dokken never really made it to the upper tier of bands in popluarity back in the 80s. Now they have been categorized as a "hair band" and thrown on the scrap heap of music history.

It is a shame that Dokken never got their due when much less talented bands like Poison and Bon Jovi, not to mention pure dog shit like Nirvana hit it big.

Lyncy deserves a lot more respect.

Thanx! :cool:

[Matt White]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
Awesome example!

I'd thrrow Beck, Hendrix and SRV up as well. Neither really shred it up like Vai, Rhodes or Satch but their music is more palettable to me personally.



BRILLIANT Doc!!!

Was gonna point to BECK & SRV myself. Two guys who are technical MONSTERS, but who understand that music needs to BREATHE.

:D

[Hardrock69]

Well, I will say this: I saw Steve Vai in March and he SUCKED!


No, his playing was flawless as far as technique...but god dammit...after only a few minutes of constant note-perfect shredding, it gets REALLY old.

This one asshole idiot wrote into Guitar World some years ago, claiming that Yngwie Malmsteen was god and that Eric Clapton sucked ass because he could not play fast.

GWE replied that they bet his girlfriend would much rather have a "slow hand" than a "fast gun" any time.

Besides...who can hum a solo played at a million miles a minute?

I prefer those guys who can blow my mind occasionally with Shred-God capability, but who actually are extremely tasteful and play a lot of slow shit that kicks serious ass....

[Hoongood]

I play more of an Angus Young style. I don't have the super fast licks, but I wish I did.

I think Zakk Wylde is a good mix of the melodic blues and southern rock licks and shredding.

Just one of the reasons he is my favorite guitarist.

[Terry]

Depends....

I mean, from a guitarists standpoint, shredding IS exciting, agreed. Don't really know if I have a preference....

Someone like Yngwie can play incredibly fast, yet if you slow his stuff down there's still a lot of melodic content, but it also takes a degree of talent to play slower runs that sound good.

Speedy playing for the sole sake of playing fast does nothing for me; there was definitely a period in the mid to late 1980s where in dozens of rock tunes the guitar solo was just an excuse to play fast. You look at something like Jamies Crying, and what Ed is doing isn't technically difficult at all, yet fit the song perfectly.

A player who can do both is more impressive to me, but don't think it's necessarily the case that players like Gilmour and Clapton are more 'soulful' because they tend to ply slower, bluesier stuff. Some players I hear just come across to me like they're running through scales and have a very mechanical style (Vai springs to mind), but toher people think they're great......

[UGS]

You're all forgetting SLASH. . .he has an incredible sense of melody (one of the best ever IMHO) but he can also tear up the fretboard like a motherfucker if the song calls for it.

His November Rain solo is a prime example of using four or five notes and making it absolutely chilling to the listener.

That said, I would prefer the quality of the notes played over the quantity of notes anyday.

[Panamark]

Originally posted by Hardrock69
Well, I will say this: I saw Steve Vai in March and he SUCKED!


No, his playing was flawless as far as technique...but god dammit...after only a few minutes of constant note-perfect shredding, it gets REALLY old.



I agree with this, Ive watched one of the G3 DVD's and I was like
"Holy Shit" for the first five minutes of each guitarist, then I was
bored to tears...

Is it just a case of "too much of a good thing" ??

[Jérôme Frenchise]

Originally posted by Panamark
I agree with this, Ive watched one of the G3 DVD's and I was like
"Holy Shit" for the first five minutes of each guitarist, then I was
bored to tears...

Is it just a case of "too much of a good thing" ??

Or too much of "now look at me, look at how smart I look and how I can handle this axe and stuff your ears with twice as many notes as are necessary, etc, etc, etc."
Too much boasting, too little pertinent melodies.

IMO only Ed VH is always relevant and melodic when he delivers dozens of notes per second.

Steve Vai is a great great player, if only he's coached like he was with Dave.
But to enjoy the whole G3 circus, I think you have to be a guitarist, which I am not. :D

[The Scatologist]

Originally posted by Jérôme Frenchise
Or too much of "now look at me, look at how smart I look and how I can handle this axe and stuff your ears with twice as many notes as are necessary, etc, etc, etc."
Too much boasting, too little pertinent melodies.

IMO only Ed VH is always relevant and melodic when he delivers dozens of notes per second.

Steve Vai is a great great player, if only he's coached like he was with Dave.
But to enjoy the whole G3 circus, I think you have to be a guitarist, which I am not. :D



Only?

Eddie's great, but you obviously haven't heard and Michael Schenker:D

[Jérôme Frenchise]

Originally posted by The Scatologist
Only?

Eddie's great, but you obviously haven't heard and Michael Schenker:D

I once listened to one MSG album, around 1990. Sorry, but I found it was bull. Really sorry, bro... :)

But then you will maybe tell me I fell on the wrong number... :D

[Loons The Great]

I likes that ol' one chord drone boogie voodoo blues by John Lee Hooker or Lightnin' Slim or R.L.Burnside.

[Loons The Great]

...I took my baby out one night
Said,"Let's have some fun,"
Throwed my arm around her
an a rat fell outta her head
like one from a burnin' down barn...

[Hardrock69]

Originally posted by Jérôme Frenchise
I once listened to one MSG album, around 1990. Sorry, but I found it was bull. Really sorry, bro... :)

But then you will maybe tell me I fell on the wrong number... :D

Uhh..you did if it was Mcauley-Schenker Group (Perfect Timing, Save Yourself). I found those albums to be kinda boring.

Try his first batch of solo albums from the early 80s:

The Michael Schenker Group
MSG
Assault Attack
Built To Destroy
One Night At Budokan

[Jérôme Frenchise]

Originally posted by Hardrock69
Uhh..you did if it was Mcauley-Schenker Group (Perfect Timing, Save Yourself). I found those albums to be kinda boring.

Try his first batch of solo albums from the early 80s:

The Michael Schenker Group
MSG
Assault Attack
Built To Destroy
One Night At Budokan

Cheers! I'll have a try at "One Night at Budokan". A live record is a good start I think.

[Soul Reaper]

one note magicians:

Dave Gilmour
Billy Gibbons
Carlos Santana
SRV
Gary Moore
Jeff Beck

the middle man:

EVH
George Lynch
Zakk Wylde
Randy Rhoads
John Sykes
Eric Johnson
Dimebag Darrell

amazing shredders:

Steve Vai
Yngwie Malmsteen
Joe Satriani
John Petrucci
Jason Becker
Shawn Lane
Marty Friedman
Allan Holdsworth
Mattias Eklundh

not very listenable players (who play too fast or are just crap)

Michael Angelo Batio (amazing technique but I hate the solo to 'Time Traveller, and what's the point of the Double Guitar)
Franceso Fareri (again, some fuckin' amazing technique but he's too damn fast, not very listenable)
Sammy Hagar (CRAP CRAP CRAP!!!!)
all emo guitarists
Kerry King (love the riffs, but the solos (???!!!!)
Noel Gallagher (same thing over and over)

[Soul Reaper]

i'll add CC Deville to the not very listenable list (he's crap!)

[Soul Reaper]

actually, Holdsworth isn't a shredder per-se, but he is fast! (fast is probably an understatement)