View Full Version : Bill Clinton says the Democrats are out of touch.
Wayne L.
05-20-2005, 01:32 PM
Former president Bill Clinton says the Democrats are out of touch with average Americans with their harsh rhetoric which is pushing his party too far to the left that it will be way off the cliff if they don't get to the middle speaking at a luncheon in his hometown of Arkansas. He also said that DNC chairman Howard Dean will probaby bring more losses to Democrats in the 06 & 08 campaigns because of his strong anti-war & anti-Bush rhetoric which presidential candidate John Kerry partially adopted & lost to Bush in 04.
The last dying gasp of the cancer on the Democratic party known as the DLC.
Stick a fork in those neocon sympathizing bastards. They're done.
And fuck George Bush's "adopted son" too. I'm sick of him, and even sicker of his sellout wife.
Nickdfresh
05-20-2005, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by FORD
The last dying gasp of the cancer on the Democratic party known as the DLC.
Stick a fork in those neocon sympathizing bastards. They're done.
And fuck George Bush's "adopted son" too. I'm sick of him, and even sicker of his sellout wife.
And fuck Wayne L's run-on sentences!:mad: :D
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
And fuck Wayne L's run-on sentences!:mad: :D
Yeah, but I figured everyone knew that part already ;)
Guitar Shark
05-20-2005, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by Wayne L.
Former president Bill Clinton says the Democrats are out of touch with average Americans with their harsh rhetoric which is pushing his party too far to the left that it will be way off the cliff if they don't get to the middle speaking at a luncheon in his hometown of Arkansas. He also said that DNC chairman Howard Dean will probaby bring more losses to Democrats in the 06 & 08 campaigns because of his strong anti-war & anti-Bush rhetoric which presidential candidate John Kerry partially adopted & lost to Bush in 04.
Is there a link for this "story"?
Assuming it's true, Clinton is mostly right. I disagree that anti-Bush and anti-war rhetoric will hurt Democratic candidates. But I totally agree that they need to move towards to the center if they will have any hope of winning.
Originally posted by Guitar Shark
Is there a link for this "story"?
Assuming it's true, Clinton is mostly right. I disagree that anti-Bush and anti-war rhetoric will hurt Democratic candidates. But I totally agree that they need to move towards to the center if they will have any hope of winning.
Center of WHAT, exactly?
The neocon agenda of the last 20 years, and especially the terra-hysteria of the last 4, has dragged this country so far to the extreme right, that we need a 90 degree turn to the left just to get BACK to the true center.
We absolutely cannot let the right wing extremists and their DLC moles define what the "center" is.
Guitar Shark
05-20-2005, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by FORD
Center of WHAT, exactly?
The neocon agenda of the last 20 years, and especially the terra-hysteria of the last 4, has dragged this country so far to the extreme right, that we need a 90 degree turn to the left just to get BACK to the true center.
We absolutely cannot let the right wing extremists and their DLC moles define what the "center" is.
If the country has been dragged further to the right (and I agree), why do you think that strong leftist Dems will be more successful than more centrist, Clinton-esque Dems? That doesn't make any sense.
Originally posted by Guitar Shark
If the country has been dragged further to the right (and I agree), why do you think that strong leftist Dems will be more successful than more centrist, Clinton-esque Dems? That doesn't make any sense.
We all know that 50% of the eligible voters out there don't vote at all. Most of them who don't, if you asked them would tell you that they don't see a difference in the two parties. Or that they don't feel the Democratic party is for the people anymore. Or that their vote doesn't count anyway.
Two of those things have definitely been true under the DLC's control of the electoral process, and the last one definitely true with "close elections" decided by electronic machines.
However, if a candidate was on the ballot who could get a good portion of these people to the polls, then the numbers might change significantly enough to Diebold-proof the results.
I believe that Howard Dean could have done that as the nominee. Possibly Clark or Kucinich as well, though they certainly are three different candidates, each had a message which appealed more to that missing pool of voters than the cookie cutter DLC'ers.
Guitar Shark
05-20-2005, 02:10 PM
A decent argument, but I still disagree. That strategy has never worked to my knowledge. Clinton's presidency is a shining example of how moving to the center allowed a modern Democrat to hold the Oval Office.
Originally posted by Guitar Shark
A decent argument, but I still disagree. That strategy has never worked to my knowledge. Clinton's presidency is a shining example of how moving to the center allowed a modern Democrat to hold the Oval Office.
I picked Clinton as the 92 winner very early on in the campaign. I believe his looks and his charisma had as much to do with his election as his centrist positons did. I might have agreed with Paul Tsongas more on some issues, but let's face it, a guy with a funny name and a funnier voice just ain't gonna get elected. (see Dennis Kucinich). It's incredibly shallow and stupid, but it's reality in the world of TV soundbites. Even before the wholesale corporate prostitution of the media.
After 12 years of BCE economic plundering, there's no way Poppy was going to win that election, and Perot (at one point the strongest third party candidate in history) screwed himself.
Clinton won by default as much as anything. And if he had actually succeeded at fully integrating gays into the military and/or reforming health care, he would probably be remembered as a "radical liberal" rather than a centrist.
Guitar Shark
05-20-2005, 02:34 PM
If Perot had not been a factor, and the election was just Bush v. Clinton, I'm not sure Clinton would have won. But to call Clinton anything but a centrist is just flawed. To use just one example, what radical liberal would have signed NAFTA?
Face it FORD, the key to success for the Dems (to the extent there is ANY chance) is to appeal to the mass electorate, not the fringe. If the Dems move further to the left they might pick up a few more leftist votes (i.e., Green Party voters), but they will lose a greater number of independent votes.
Nickdfresh
05-20-2005, 03:40 PM
I think you two have been WAYNED! He's been pulling these run-on blurb threads, with no link, out of his ass all afternoon apparently. Mom must have paid the AOL bill this month.:)
BigBadBrian
05-20-2005, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by FORD
And fuck George Bush's "adopted son" too. I'm sick of him, and even sicker of his sellout wife.
Look! They're eating their babies!!!!! :D :D :D
BigBadBrian
05-20-2005, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by Guitar Shark
If Perot had not been a factor, and the election was just Bush v. Clinton, I'm not sure Clinton would have won. But to call Clinton anything but a centrist is just flawed. To use just one example, what radical liberal would have signed NAFTA?
Face it FORD, the key to success for the Dems (to the extent there is ANY chance) is to appeal to the mass electorate, not the fringe. If the Dems move further to the left they might pick up a few more leftist votes (i.e., Green Party voters), but they will lose a greater number of independent votes.
Good analysis. Right on the money. Too bad other Dems can't see it.
:gulp:
Warham
05-20-2005, 04:11 PM
Howard Dean isn't going to be getting any of those blacks back that voted for Bush, that's for sure.
See a therapist about that obsession.
Warham
05-20-2005, 05:04 PM
Just saying, FORD.
The Democrats are supposedly the party for minorities, but here they are saying blacks work in hotels, making racist cartoons about Condoleeza Rice, and filibustering every one of the black and hispanic judges Bush is trying to nominate.
Originally posted by Warham
Just saying, FORD.
The Democrats are supposedly the party for minorities, but here they are saying blacks work in hotels, making racist cartoons about Condoleeza Rice, and filibustering every one of the black and hispanic judges Bush is trying to nominate.
Junior has gotten something like 198 out of the 200 judges he asked for. If 2 of them are too extreme to be confirmed, then perhaps Junior should find someone more acceptable for the position.
Remember that you guys once turned down a Surgeon General candidate who dared to mention the word "masturbation".
Oh wait a minute, Jocelyn Elders was African American, wasn't she? And wasn't Clinton's first Attorney General nominee Hispanic?
Who's the racists??
diamondD
05-21-2005, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by FORD
See a therapist about that obsession.
The irony is overwhelming here...;)
LoungeMachine
05-21-2005, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by Warham
and filibustering every one of the black and hispanic judges Bush is trying to nominate.
That's bullshit and you know it.
Leave that crap for limbaugh and Hannity
You're smarter than that, ham:rolleyes:
Nickdfresh
05-21-2005, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by Warham
Howard Dean isn't going to be getting any of those blacks back that voted for Bush, that's for sure.
You mean like that radical Libertarian that essentially thinks it's appropriate to dismantle any aspect of the the Federal Government created after 1929. :rolleyes:
BTW, do you guys realize that WAYNE L. made this entire thread up yet, like his EVH is going to replace Michael Anthony BS?:D
DrMaddVibe
05-21-2005, 11:06 AM
As Dems shore up base, GOP goes 'raiding'
By Jill Lawrence, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — National party chairmen Howard Dean and Ken Mehlman have the same job titles but different jobs. One is on a mission to rebuild, the other to expand.
Mehlman, chairman of the Republican National Committee, is courting black and Hispanic voters on a regular basis. Beyond the usual run of speeches, fundraisers and meetings with donors, he has visited Latino neighborhoods and historically black campuses. He has attended black-oriented receptions and ceremonies, spoken to minority chambers of commerce and raised money for Otto Banks of Harrisburg, Pa., a black city council candidate new to the GOP.
Dean, who reaches Day 100 as Democratic National Committee chairman Monday, is for the most part speaking to diehard Democrats who are the backbone of their party. He's addressed Democrats in nine states dominated by Republicans, such as Kansas and Mississippi, and in party strongholds such as California and Massachusetts. He's spoken to labor unions, gay-rights groups and state party chairs — all pillars of the party.
Some Democrats are frustrated by the contrast between the two approaches, even as they praise Dean's efforts to revitalize flagging state parties. "Democrats should be stirring things up, roiling the waters on (the GOP) side the way Mehlman is on ours. He's playing in our sandbox," says Steve Rosenthal, CEO of America Coming Together, a group formed to energize and turn out Democratic voters.
Will Marshall, president of the centrist Progressive Policy Institute, agrees that Democrats need to "go raiding behind Republican lines." He says his group and the affiliated Democratic Leadership Council will be doing "some missionary work of our own" in Republican states this year.
Rosenthal, Marshall and others say Democrats — led by Dean — should be reaching out to groups and areas where Republicans have done well: military families, Catholics, evangelical Christians, business leaders, people who live in the "exurbs" beyond even outer suburbs, and people who live in small, "micropolitan" cities. They also say Democrats should focus on black and Latino voters, even though majorities of both voted for Democrat John Kerry for president last year.
Dean declined to comment for this story. His spokeswoman, Karen Finney, says that "we will have an aggressive outreach," including to the faith community, "but we're focused on doing our strategy — not talking about it." She adds: "I'm glad to hear the Republican Party is finally reaching out" to minorities. "It's about time."
Republican gains
Though Republicans still win only a fraction of the black vote, the trend is up: President Bush gained last year among blacks, rising from 8% to 11%. More worrisome for Democrats as they look at future swing states, Bush went from 9% to 16% among black voters in Ohio — the state that gave him the presidency with a 2-percentage-point win. Among Hispanics, the fastest growing part of the electorate and once reliably Democratic, Bush went from 35% to more than 40% nationally.
The numbers behind the Republican push are stark. Given birth rates and other population trends, says GOP strategist Bill McInturff, "you can't be a majority party as a party of white America."
Simon Rosenberg, president of the centrist New Democrat Network, says his group spent $6 million in nine states last year to reach Hispanic voters, but "winning with Hispanics is a much higher priority" for Republicans. "They're doing the math," he says.
Dean, a former presidential candidate, won his current job by pledging to revive weak state operations, and that is his top priority now. In April he gave $500,000 in DNC money to parties in four states dominated by Republicans, and plans to dispense cash to several additional state parties this month. He has started placing organizers in all 50 states. A DNC team is helping state parties develop customized rebuilding plans.
More than three months into his tenure, Dean has yet to name a political director, typically the person who stays in contact with state parties and decides where money should go. However, he has won praise for making diverse appointments, including a communications director and lead pollster who are African-American. He's kept his profile relatively low so far but is set to break out Sunday on NBC's Meet the Press.
Mehlman, manager of the 2004 Bush campaign, played a crucial role in the GOP's two-year drive to build up grassroots operations and pinpoint potential supporters. The result: Republicans outperformed Democrats in turning out voters, and Bush won.
The GOP recently set new goals — register 4 million new voters, identify 19 million new potential supporters — to make sure it keeps growing over the next four years. At the same time, Mehlman has turned to minority voters. "It certainly is a very big priority for me, this president and this party," he said in an interview.
In talks to minority groups, Mehlman promotes Bush's "opportunity" agenda: home and business ownership, education and private Social Security accounts. He says he and his party share his listeners' love of country, family and God. "Give us a chance and we'll give you a choice," he urges.
Republican strategist Matthew Dowd says Mehlman is building on his party's 2004 gains, while Dean is shoring up traditional support — not a strong position. "A party trying to win elections and expand the electorate would much prefer to be speaking to the other side's base than its own base," he says.
Jim Jordan, a Democratic strategist and Dean adviser, dismisses Mehlman's forays as window-dressing. "Mehlman has a huge luxury," he says. "He's running the same organization he's been running for a long time. It's in good shape. It's well funded. So he can do things like make PR points."
Plenty of red meat
Dean is offering Democrats his trademark red-meat rhetoric along with guidance on outreach. In speeches covered locally, he has called Republicans "corrupt," "brain-dead" and "mean." "They are not nice people," he said last month in a radio interview on Air America Minnesota, according to the political newsletter Hotline. Last weekend he said House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, whose associates are under investigation but who has not been charged with anything, should go home to Houston to "serve his jail sentence" at Texas expense.
At the same time, Dean tells Democrats they need to "respect people in all 50 states" and try to win them over. "We need to talk to people from our hearts," he told California Democrats. He said Democrats should "say what our values are" and "inform Americans about what we believe instead of letting the other party do it."
That includes changing the way Democrats talk about abortion, he says. Forget "pro-choice" and "pro-life," he tells groups across the country, Democrats should talk about who makes the decision — the woman, a politician such a DeLay or, as reported by the Lawrence Journal World in Kansas, "some right-wing pastor."
Dean told California Democrats he is visiting conservative states because "how are people going to respect you if you don't show up and ask for their vote?" He is counting on that message getting out beyond his Democratic audiences. As he says, referring to the limited turf fought over last year, "You have seen the last 18-state presidential campaign in America."
DEAN ITINERARY APRIL 10-24
Howard Dean tends relations with mainstays of the party base (those events in bold ):
April 12: Vancouver, Wash., lecture at Washington State University
April 13: Seattle, finance meetings; San Francisco, finance meeting
April 14: San Francisco, finance meeting; Las Vegas, lunch with United Steelworkers union; Los Angeles, finance meeting
April 15: West Hollywood, Calif., gay and lesbian event
April 16: Los Angeles, California Democratic Convention
April 18: Naples, Fla., party fundraiser
April 20: Washington, D.C., speech to Building and Construction Trades union legislative conference; Minneapolis, fundraiser for ACLU-Minnesota
April 21: Minneapolis, party fundraiser
MEHLMAN ITINERARY APRIL 10-24
Mehlman promotes the Republican party to growing groups that favor Democrats (those events in bold ):
April 10: St. Louis, finance meeting
April 12: Denver, finance meeting; Parker, Colo., speech at party dinner
April 13: San Diego, finance meeting; Los Angeles, finance meeting; Newport Beach, finance meeting
April 14: San Francisco, finance meeting; Atherton, Calif., finance meeting; San Jose, meeting with grass-roots volunteers
April 15: Las Vegas, finance event; Hispanic Coalitions event ; Latin Chamber of Commerce lunch speech
April 18: Atlanta, finance meeting; New Orleans, finance meeting
April 19: Miami, finance meeting and town meeting with Hispanic and Catholic voters
April 20: Baltimore, speech at party dinner
April 22: Washington, D.C., speech to Republican National Lawyers Association
Isn't this the same article you posted a couple months ago, AssVibe? ;)
Funny how a Wayne bullshit thread actually turned into a reasonable discussion, but now you have to fuck it all up again with 2 month old quotes from that treasonous piece of shit Will "PNAC" Marshall http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/images/anim_puke.gif
Redballjets88
05-21-2005, 12:29 PM
I disagree that anti-Bush and anti-war rhetoric will hurt Democratic candidates.
what are you talking about as long as democrats bash bush and stuff the conservative states will continue to vote republican therefore it hurts the democrats
DrMaddVibe
05-21-2005, 12:31 PM
Nope.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-05-19-parties-outreach_x.htm
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.