The Miami Heat vs. The Detroit Pistons

[POJO_Risin]

Well...will he or won't he...

Detroit favored in this even if Shaq does play...

if Shaq is 100%...then Detroit is in trouble...thing is...he's not...

Detroit in 7...

[POJO_Risin]

Wade is the best player on both teams...

if Shaq plays...they'll have the best 2 players on the floor...but not the best team...

[ALinChainz]

Figure if they can handle Shaq and Kobe, this shouldn't be a whole lot different.

I like Detroit in 6.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

I agree with Al...

Detroit handled Shaq last year, and they'll do it again this year, especially with Shaq hobbled....

[Brett]

Where's all the Dwayne Wade ass-licking now? What did he shoot 7 of 25? He looked as bad if not worse than Kobe did last year. Talk about not going to Shaq, and taking bad shots, Wade got his ass handed to him tonight. I'm sure Shaq will kiss his ass though. I mean according to the media, Wade is the second-coming of Michael Jordan.

After Game 1 last year when Kobe shot 10 of 27 Shaq hammered him in the press, but Wade plays worse and Shaq will smoochy smoochy with him.

Pistons in 5.

[Matt White]

DE-TROIT BASKET-BALL!!!:D

Pistons in 5.

[redblkwht]

Originally posted by ALinChainz
Figure if they can handle Shaq and Kobe, this shouldn't be a whole lot different.

I like Detroit in 6. Ill take detroit in
this series too..its a new season, the pistons are the
champs..they are the team to
beat period.
the media gives them no props.

[Warham]

Dwyane who?

[Brett]

Too bad after they beat the Heat they won't be given the credit because Fatty was "hurt."

[POJO_Risin]

And if the Heat beat the Pistons?...

will you give THEM credit?

Detroit is the incumbant champs...they'll get credit either way...

[POJO_Risin]

Originally posted by Brett
Where's all the Dwayne Wade ass-licking now?

15-28 from the field

10-10 from the line

8 boards

7 assists...

ATTENTION ALL WADE ASS-LICKERS...

commence licking...

[POJO_Risin]

So far though...this series is mirroring the Laker series from last year...

Kobe sux ass game 1...comes through in game 2...

we'll see what happens the next three...;)

My guess is they'll clamp down on WADE...

adios...

[POJO_Risin]

Miami goes up 3-2...but with a price...Wade goes down with a strained rib muscle...and is day to day...

I still say Detroit in 7...but we shall see...neither one of these teams are as good as San Antonio...

[Alter Bridge]

Originally posted by POJO_Risin
neither one of these teams are as good as San Antonio...

Agreed. It really doesn't make a difference who wins between Miami and Detroit, because the Spurs will put them out in six games.

[Brett]

I agree, I still say Pistons in 7. Wade will play the next game, hurt or not.

[POJO_Risin]

Or they could rest him and throw it all at them in game 7 in Miami...

Detroit played like wet dog ass tonight...

[Brett]

They should have made a game of that when Wade went out.

I don't know if you rest guys for a Game 7. If you can close out and go to the Finals, I think you try to play.

[POJO_Risin]

Oh...I think resting would be a mistake...but I could see it happening...

Miami has weird ass strategies...but I think they have gotten in Detroit's head a bit...

any player would play in game 6...we'll see what kind of playa Wade is...

Someone would have to rip OUT my rib cage and hold it in front of my face to miss a game that important...

[POJO_Risin]

The Heat's in trouble early...

down 17-16 at the end of the 1st quarter..Shaq's on the bench with 2 fouls...and Wade isn't playing...

[Brett]

Have you guys figured out who the MVP of the Heat is yet? I'll give you a hint, he doesn't wear #32.

BTW, Miami still hasn't figured out how to get the ball to Shaq effectively. Maybe they should ask Kobe who actually passed to Shaq.

[POJO_Risin]

I'm not even going to comment on this...

now you are saying that Kobe was the only player...Laker or Heat...who could effectively get Shaq the ball...

Brett...you've lost your mind...

[POJO_Risin]

Name 1 player on this team right now minus Shaq...who's any good...

Damon Jones...

maybe Haslem...

minus that...WHAT DO THEY HAVE?

[Brett]

No but Kobe passed the ball to Shaq as much as his new butt buddy Dwayne Wade does...in fact better. Just in general though, the triangle gave Shaq more scoring opportunities and better ones.

They don't have anything, hence they are getting owned tonight.

[DLR7884]

Originally posted by POJO_Risin
Name 1 player on this team right now minus Shaq...who's any good...

Damon Jones...

maybe Haslem...

minus that...WHAT DO THEY HAVE?

Laettner.

He's a proven winner.

DLR7884
LOL. :)

[bedrockboy]

Originally posted by Brett
Where's all the Dwayne Wade ass-licking now? What did he shoot 7 of 25? He looked as bad if not worse than Kobe did last year. Talk about not going to Shaq, and taking bad shots, Wade got his ass handed to him tonight. I'm sure Shaq will kiss his ass though. I mean according to the media, Wade is the second-coming of Michael Jordan.

After Game 1 last year when Kobe shot 10 of 27 Shaq hammered him in the press, but Wade plays worse and Shaq will smoochy smoochy with him.

Pistons in 5.

Pistons in 5?? Brett, I see you're also a sports expert, lol.

According to the media, every good young guard is the second coming of MJ. Kobe was, Vince Carter was, McGrady was, fucking Harold Miner was. So to rip on Wade for having a bad game against the best defensive team in the game is pretty crazy. People often forget that Wade is in his second season. Not too many guys not named Magic have had the success that Wade has had so early. Is he Michael? Nope, won't be another one of him for a generation. But the guy is a stud and the difference between him and Kobe is that he is on good terms with the other star on his team. Kobe has seen the results of pisssing off the big guy. Whatever team he goes to becomes a contender and whatever team he leaves goes into the lottery. It's too bad Kobe ain't quite as good a GM as he is a player.

Bedrock

[POJO_Risin]

The best player on a team...

isn't always the MVP of a team...

Nash isn't the best player for Phoenix...

maybe not even the 2nd best player when Marion is on...

but noone doubts that he's the MVP for Phoenix...

[POJO_Risin]

Miami CAN'T win game 7...with or without Wade...

he won't be 100%...and they'll be monstrously physical with him...

[Brett]

Kobe was also an All-Star starter his second season Alberta (I mean bedrock) (he didn't even start on his own team), and the Lakers made it to the West Finals that year too. He had plenty of early success in his career as well. Oh and I seem to recall Kobe getting ripped every game after playing poorly against Detroit. The difference between Wade and Kobe is 3 rings. Shaq and Wade are best friends right now because Shaq came into this situation, he never accepted Kobe from the first day in training camp in 1996 because the Lakers were his team. Eventually the lovefest between Wade and Shaq will go away, especially if they don't win a title. Now pipe down stalker.

Anyway Poj, I agree that the best player on your team isn't necessarily your MVP, however in Miami's case, it is Wade. Shaq is not making guys around him better, I think that was a farce all year, but whatever we can argue that forever. I stand by the fact that Wade made them a better team simply because of the player he became. Shaq came along for the ride.

[POJO_Risin]

You are right...we can argue it all day long...and neither one of us are going to budge.

I don't agree with you...if Miami gets Yao Ming...or any other center (with the exception of Tim Duncan) to go along with Wade...they end up losing in the first or second round...

As far as comparing Wade to Kobe the first two years of their careers...you just can't...

1. Kobe was a teenager...and as good as he was as a teenager (and he was decent), he wasn't a starter...and over those 2 years...only averaged 20 minutes a game...

If Kobe made the All-Star game after his second year...it was based on Jordan comparisons...again...it's not fair to Kobe to compare the two after their 2nd seasons...simply because in Kobe's second year...he averaged only 26 minutes a game...and averaged 15...he wasn't needed to start...

2. Wade has been a starter from the start...so you'd have to move ahead a couple of years to get a true comparison...

with me...the main difference between the two is the field goal percentage...other than that...it's all apples and oranges...as far as quality of player goes...


right now...I'd choose Wade on my team...because he can play point, off guard and small forward...because he's younger...and because he's unselfish...

I wouldn't be unhappy nabbing Kobe though...he'd certainly be up there...

although I think Wade and LeBron would be 1/2...Kobe probably 3...

and the ONLY reason why I'd choose the other 2 above Bryant are their ages...and equal ability...

to be honest...ability wise...they are similar...other than Wade and LeBron's shooting averages...

did you agree with me on something Brett?

a small concession...lmfao...but after years of battling on this topic...I'll take it...

[POJO_Risin]

Here's this year's head to head...

Dwyane Wade
Miami Heat
Position: G
Height: 6-4 Weight: 212
College : Marquette '05
Player file | Team stats

2004-05 Statistics
PPG 24.1
RPG 5.2
APG 6.8
SPG 1.57
BPG 1.06
FG% .478
FT% .762
3P% .289
MPG 38.6


Kobe Bryant
Los Angeles Lakers
Position: G
Height: 6-6 Weight: 220
High School : Lower Merion (PA)
Player file | Team stats

2004-05 Statistics
PPG 27.6
RPG 5.9
APG 6.0
SPG 1.30
BPG .80
FG% .433
FT% .816
3P% .339
MPG 40.7

[POJO_Risin]

And here are Kobe's stats...the first year he started...and averaged 38+ minutes a game...

99-00 LAL
66 games
62 games started
38.2 minutes
6.30 RPG
4.9 APG
1.61 SPG
.94 BPG
2.76 TO
22.5 PPG

[Brett]

Well you can look it up, Kobe absolutely started on the 1997-98 All-Star team, I remember it well. Kobe also led all 6-men in the league in scoring that year at 15.4 a game in 26 minutes, so come on, hardly shabby numbers. Nope it was hard to crack the starting 5 when you had a young vets like Eddie Jones and Nick Van Exel ahead of you.

Hard to believe Kobe is now 26, and than that are good players younger than him now. How time flies. I'd take Lebron over Wade anyday of the week. I'd take Kobe right now over Lebron, simply because of experience, and ability to make clutch plays. I love Lebron's game, no argument there. I am not sure he as hard a worker on his game as Kobe is. Frankly I don't think anyone in the NBA is.

Wade is no less selfish than Kobe. You REALLY think he passes the ball to his teammates more than Kobe does? You really believe that? And don't go with assist numbers, because assists require the other person to actually make the shot. It has nothign to do with unselfishness. You can put people in the perfect situation to score, and the shot still has to be made. I have seen nothing in Wade's play that indicates he is any less selfish than Kobe. He has had plenty of games where he takes a lot of bad shots, and goes away from Shaq in long stretches, and becomes very 1 on 1. I don't see how Wade is any less selfish than any other great player. Wade at 6'3" is no forward though, come on now. His post up game is non-existent. Kobe can dominate guards in the post.

I agree on the shooting percentages, however Kobe has always taken a lot of 3's, neither Wade nor Lebron do. And MJ certainly never did. Shit hardly anybody did.

I don't disagree with your points at all, I just have different takes on players. And yeah a lot of it comes from bias. I have watched Kobe play a long time here, I've watched the Lakers win titles, I've watched him make plays that I have seen few players ever do.

[Brett]

Poj,

Kobe's first year he started was actually the 1999 strike-shortened season, not the 99-00 title season.

He averaged 38 minutes and 19.9 a game.

Kobe missed the first 16 games in 99-00 season with a broken wrist, and he didn't start the first 4 he came back. That's why he started 62 of 66.

And his numbers in the season you posted are damn good, considering he played second fiddle to Shaq, who had one of the greatest seasons by any center in the history of this league, that's how good he was that year. And of course, his only MVP year.

[POJO_Risin]

I didn't say it was the first year he started...

I said I'd put in the first season he averaged OVER 38 minutes...

[POJO_Risin]

Not a big deal...for either case to be honest...

I'm just saying you can't really include a comparison with Wade until they played similar minutes...

[Brett]

Originally posted by POJO_Risin
I didn't say it was the first year he started...

I said I'd put in the first season he averaged OVER 38 minutes...

Dude, re-read what you wrote. You said "the first year he started."

[POJO_Risin]

Had Kobe stayed with Charlotte...I'm sure his stats would have looked more like LeBron's at this stage in their career...but...LA had a more established team those first few years...

[Brett]

Originally posted by POJO_Risin
Not a big deal...for either case to be honest...

I'm just saying you can't really include a comparison with Wade until they played similar minutes...

True, but they were both playing with different players around then, and far different Shaquille O'Neals. The Shaq Kobe played with is not the same Shaq Wade does. Shaq could call himself the MDE then, and it was true.

And remember, the Lakers did have other legit scorers. In 1999 when they got Glen Rice, he was averaging 20 points a game. And before that, they had Eddie Jones and Elden Campbell, who both averaged 25-27 between the two of them,

[Brett]

Originally posted by POJO_Risin
Had Kobe stayed with Charlotte...I'm sure his stats would have looked more like LeBron's at this stage in their career...but...LA had a more established team those first few years...

Indeed, and we'd still probably have Vlade and not Shaq...oh wait. ;)

When Shaq and Kobe came here, the Lakers already had some good young scorers yep.

[POJO_Risin]

Brett...you really are one argumentative motherfucker when it comes to some shit...

what I said was the first year he starts...AND averaged OVER 38 minutes a game...

it was a combo statement...

I know Kobe started the year before dude...I was looking at his yearly stats when I typed it...

Kobe started the game his second year because fans voted...I have no problem with that. Kobe is a great player...I have no problem with that...

Yes...I think Wade is a less selfish player...he takes FAR LESS bad shots...

he doesn't shoot 3's because it's not a good shot for him yet.

Like I said before...there isn't a whole lot of difference between the 2...the same that there isn't a whole lot of difference between LeBron and Kobe right now...

Kobe has the known commodity...consistency...which gives him an advantage. He also has 3 titles...Wade and LeBron are going to find it hard to match that...on their current teams...although the Heat could nab a few more goto guys next year that could put them in contention immediately.

Next Year...Cleveland will more than likely lose his big man...but gain a shooter...they'll probably improve a few games...but nothing more...

the Heat...I'm pessimistic that Shaq can continue to play at a high level (yeah...I know...save your typing...I know you don't think he plays at a high level anymore...)...but I DO think that the other players have learned a lot...Haslem is a solid player...I like Mourning off the bench...if they can move Laettner and his contract...and get a power forward or center that can take the heat off of Shaq...and go out and get an outside shooter...I think Miami can be the team to beat.

We'll just have to wait and see...

I would love to see my Cavs get Redd...and sign a center that's worth a damn...or actually...keep Z...but I don't see it happening...you never know though...

[POJO_Risin]

Yeah...the Lakers had Van Exel...and Eddie Jones...who could fill the hole...

I think...although I'm not 100% sure...that they had Cedric Ceballos that year...and I think Elden Campbell was a starter on that team at power forward...and actually playing well...I know Kersey was on that team...although the late stages of his career...Horry was there at the time...and I think Byron Scott...

Their starting five was decent...certainly solid...not sure out of that bunch who started...

I'm guessing that it was Shaq, Campbell, Van Exel and Jones and maybe Kersey...

I'd say Ceballos...but I can't remember if he was there that year...or the year before or after...

or all of the above...lmfao...

Kobe was able to come along slowly...as most players should...

[POJO_Risin]

Originally posted by Brett
True, but they were both playing with different players around then, and far different Shaquille O'Neals. The Shaq Kobe played with is not the same Shaq Wade does. Shaq could call himself the MDE then, and it was true.

And remember, the Lakers did have other legit scorers. In 1999 when they got Glen Rice, he was averaging 20 points a game. And before that, they had Eddie Jones and Elden Campbell, who both averaged 25-27 between the two of them,

You can look at this in 2 ways though Brett...you know...like you stating how Kobe's stats this year are that much better because he's nearly the only option...and...the D's are focusing on him (of which I agree with 100%)...

You can make a case that Kobe excelled (1 because he was good...and nearly the #1 option on some of those teams) because the focus couldn't be directed at just him. As you say...Shaq was his dominant self...and Rice provide an outside threat...which cleared much area away for Kobe. Vast talent, plus one on one match ups...equal lots and lots of points...

[Brett]

Shaq plays at a high level compared to other centers in this league of course, he's just not same Shaq he was wearing purple and gold that's all.

All right I got you now, I thought you just meant the first year you started. Shit he averaged 37.9 in 1999, come on. :)

The Cavs need another true scorer yes. I think a team philopsophy would help them as well.

Well we'll just have to agree to disagree, I don't think Wade defers to other players anymore than Kobe does. And when it get to crunch time, he's taking ALL the shots. Again, I don't see that as a flaw.

[POJO_Risin]

I don't see it as a flaw...

I just see his shots a wee bit closer to the hoop than Kobe...which is confusing and confounding at times...because Kobe can create shots inside the arc...that other players can't...

WHICH IS WHAT MAKES HIM A STEP ABOVE OTHER PLAYERS...

[POJO_Risin]

You realize Brett...every hoop thread...

we turn into a Kobe Shaq talk...lmfao...

[Brett]

LOL, fuck I'd have to really think about those early lineups.

They got Fox before the 97-98 season, and Fox started. Fox started at the small forward until they got Rice a year later. And Fox was still a double-figure scorer then. Campbell started at the PF, Jones and Van Exel at guard. Kobe was the 6th man.

Kersey was the 6th man off that 96-97 team. Shit Kobe probably was the 8th or 9th off the bench that year behind Byron Scott. Yeah I am pretty sure Cedric Ceballos was gone 8 games into the season. They got Horry in the middle of the season and he started at the end at the small forward spot. Eddie Jones also played small forward as well. The Lakers even tried rookie Travis Knight for a while. That spot was always a pain.

Anyway I have no point anymore, just rambling. :)

[Brett]

Originally posted by POJO_Risin
You realize Brett...every hoop thread...

we turn into a Kobe Shaq talk...lmfao...

I know I'm stopping, I don't want the guys to get all pissed. :)

Go Pistons.

[POJO_Risin]

His 3 point shooting is an asset for sure...and one in which Wade isn't even in his shadow with...

[POJO_Risin]

Travis Knight...I remember...many thought he was going to be a player...wasn't he in the deal that sent Fox to the Lakers from the Celts?

[Brett]

Kobe can shoot the 3 for sure, sometimes falls in love with it too much and forgets the other aspect of his game, which is getting to the basket.

I am pretty sure the Lakers just let Knight go after his 3-year contract was up. Yep he was a total bust after a good rookie year. Rick Fox was signed as a free agent, they acutally were on the same teams togther.

[POJO_Risin]

Ahhhh...I just remember Knight playing for the Celtics...can't remember the specifics at this point...for good reason...

another Mark Madsen...lmfao...probably could dance better though...

[POJO_Risin]

...just painful

http://images.usatoday.com/sports/gallery/02nbafinals/14madsen.jpg

[POJO_Risin]

really fucking painful...guy bases his whole career of these dancing moments...

http://www.detnews.com/pix/2002/06/15/spolakers200.jpg

[Brett]

Fuck I read somewhere they might bring Madsen back. LOL.

[POJO_Risin]

Why not...lmfao...he can fill that hole that he filled in all those years ago...

You could call him the donut hole...cuz that's what he amounts to...

a scrapper when he's in there...

but as my wife states to me whenever she sits with me to watch a game...

BWG

Big
White
Goof...

[Brett]

Ding Dong The Fat Man's Gone!!!!

Now the Big Contract Extension can demand his $29 million. He sure deserves it don't he? HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAA

In fatty's defense though, he looked good tonight, those dopes didn't get him the ball enough, which I have been saying all along.

[POJO_Risin]

I agree with the last part of it...

I'm curious about the contract piece...we'll see what he asks for...and what he gets...

[POJO_Risin]

I'm looking forward to this series...

I may be the only person outside of Detroit and SA looking forward to it though...

I'm sure ABC is pissed off beyond belief...

[Matt White]

DE-TROIT! BASKET-BALL!:D

Pistons in 6

[Bill Lumbergh]

I can't wait for 7 77-74 games!!!!!!!!!

[Matt White]

Hate the game Playah!!!:D

Back to Back! CHAMPS!!!

FEAR THE FRO!!!:D

[Brett]

You guys let me know who wins, would ya?

Once fatty lost, my mission was accomplished in watching the games. :)

[POJO_Risin]

C'mon Brett...we need some damn fans to stick this out...

regionalness is killing the game...

not that a couple of guys can fix it...

[Redballjets88]

spurs have the championship...i think the spurs play ALMOST as well as the pistons as a team...plus they have duncan....remember i said almost

[Warham]

I know I'm happy. The Finals are an afterthought. :D

[POJO_Risin]

They play JUST as well as the Pistons as a team...and have some interesting attributes...

an overall good defensive team...

with a stopper...and a shot blocker...(Bowen and Duncan)...

and a key quickness factor in Tony Parker...that may run the Pistons D down...unless Billups muscles through him...

We shall see...

Ginobli will decide the series...

[Brett]

I'm sure I'll tune in for a game here and there, but I have little interest anymore.

[ALinChainz]

I watched every minute of every game.

Shaq is still a force, even at less than 100%. Wade got hurt.

I think the Pistons repeat, seriously.

[POJO_Risin]

The Pistons...I thought...were the underdogs...and I think that they are in Vegas...

but...most polls I'm seeing have them at 50/50...

IMO...they are the underdogs...and have been for 2 years...we'll see what happens...I think the 2 best teams are in the finals...