Risk of Civil War Spreads Fear Across Nation

[DLR'sCock]

Risk of Civil War Spreads Fear Across Nation
By Jeffrey Fleishman
The Los Angeles Times

Sunday 29 May 2005

Many worry that strains between Sunnis and Shiites could ignite a conflict that would overwhelm US troops and the government.
Baghdad - Explosions rip through marketplaces, scattering blood and vegetables and leaving women wailing in the alleys. Bodies bob in rivers and are dug up from garbage dumps and parks. Kidnappers troll the streets, sirens howl through morning prayers and mortar rounds whistle against skylines of minarets.

Iraqis awake each day to the sounds of violence. With little respite, many wonder whether strange, terrible forces are arrayed against them. They fear that weeks of sectarian and clan violence, claiming the lives of all types from imams to barefoot fishermen, are a prelude to civil war.

"I'm worried 24 hours a day," said Zainab Hassan, a university student majoring in computer science. "Whenever I hear bomb or shooting, I call my mother and husband to check if they're OK. I can see a civil war coming, it's obvious. Everybody is talking about it. We have to be more careful."

Iraqis such as Abu Mohammed, who sells books along the Tigris River, struggle to comprehend how the euphoria of January's election has withered so quickly. They find contradictions rather than answers. Life has become a vicious thrum, with boys clinging to courtyard walls and gun battles beneath the date palms appearing live on TV.

Interviews with Iraqis from Basra to Baghdad to Mosul suggest that much of the nation fears that intensifying strains between Sunni and Shiite Muslims could ignite a conflict that would overwhelm the increasingly unpopular Iraqi government and 140,000 US troops. Abu Mohammed blames, among others, Saddam Hussein, who, even from his jail cell, seems to taunt the country.

"Saddam created hostile sentiments between Sunni and Shiite," Mohammed said. "It was like a fire hidden under a cover and waiting to turn into a blaze. The remnants of Saddam Hussein are now trying to stoke and enlarge this fire. I blame both the Shiites and the Sunnis for playing parts in stirring up hostilities."

Nearly 700 people have been killed in car bombings and by shootings and beheadings in the last month. What concerns US officials and ordinary Iraqis is that militant leaders such as Abu Musab Zarqawi are attempting to instigate a two-track war: one, the continuing battle between insurgents and American and Iraqi forces, and another between Shiite and Sunni Arabs that could possibly draw in Kurds from the north.

"It's time for Iraqis to stand together to foil the dirty attempts of the enemies to implant sectarian war on this injured country," said Naim Salman, a civil servant in Baghdad. "The government is trying its best, but it is still not enough. It is a new government and it needs time, especially when terrorists are infiltrating ministries."

The Sunnis were the beneficiaries and power behind Hussein's Baathist regime. Many of them, including influential leaders, opposed the Shiite-dominated government that followed Hussein and formed the heart of the insurgency.

Some Sunnis have begun to rejoin the political process. But so far, the government has been unable to persuade the nation's minority Sunni population to abandon its suspicions, and the squabbles in the corridors of the National Assembly have inspired violence tied to religion and clan.

Nafi Alfartoosi, editor of a newspaper in Samawah in Shiite-dominated southern Iraq, said, "The failure of the government to stop sectarian terrorism of Sunnis against Shiites has deepened the gap between the government and the people. I am sure that many of the millions who voted are sorry for going out on Jan. 30. This weakness in stopping sectarian terrorism and halting bloodshed is encouraging" those seeking a civil war.

Sunni and Shiite organizations, along with Iraqi Prime Minister Ibrahim Jafari, have sought to calm tensions over the last week. But the effort is hindered by spiraling violence that since April 29 has included the killing of at least 10 Sunni and Shiite clerics, among them Mohammed Tahir Allaq, a representative of one of the nation's top Shiite leaders, Ayatollah Mohammed Saeed Hakim.

Some Shiite and Sunni leaders have blamed each other for the assassinations.

Images of the coffins of clerics being carried through the streets have unnerved a public that has had scant peace since Hussein was toppled two years ago and the country occupied by US-led forces that quickly encountered an insurgency. The January election brought a brief gust of normality, but that has shattered with the surge in car bombings.

In a Baghdad University poll taken earlier this year, more than 80% of the Iraqis questioned expected their government to gain strength in coming months. That has dropped to 45% today.

With the insurgency killing more civilians, anger against American forces has intensified. Many Iraqis view the US as an unwanted godfather who, despite his prowess and streams of military convoys, can't provide the basics let alone protect them from extremists who badger the nation with Internet screeds and jihadist rants on the radio.

"I only want to put this question to you," said Sana Abdul-Kareem, a dentist with four children. "Why can't the US, with all its might and capabilities, impose security here? How come with all our oil they cannot provide us with electricity? My son was so happy when the American soldiers first came. But after two years of failure to make good on their promises, he abhors them."

Baghdad resident Ali Jalal said: "The Americans are behind these problems. They don't want the country to be stabilized.... The Iraqi government is like a doll in the hands of the Americans."

Many Iraqis choose denial to cope with the seething times around them. A Shiite will tell you he is married to a Sunni, or a Sunni to a Shiite. They will tell you their families are an intermingling of Iraq's classes and religions and that they have lived in harmony for generations. But every day new families line up outside morgues and new markers are added to graveyards. They blame it on terrorists and outside forces, who, they say, manipulate their lives much as Hussein did.

"It's a policy of divide and conquer being applied by our occupiers," said Abu Izz, a Baghdad antiques dealer who was born in Fallouja. A civil war will not succeed because Iraqis are all brothers and relatives, he added.

"You may not believe this, but some of my relatives are promujahedin [Sunnis], and others are members of the Badr Brigade [Shiites] and others are clergy. This is how we are interrelated."

"Iraq is one nation, one land and one heart," said Sinaa Ali Musa, a state worker from Samawah.

But Musa, a Shiite, conceded there were divisions. "I think the Shiites are being subjected to all kinds of terrorism because the Sunnis are losing power."

Others consider Sunnis the victims. "There has been a flagrant violation of Sunni rights," said Saad Abdul Aziz Siqar, a Sunni from Basra. "This is affecting relationships between the two sects and could lead to war.... The Shiites have power and authority over us and are treating us like a minority."

Navigating such chaos psychologically, and even on rural roads and city streets, has trapped many Iraqis.

"It's the same problem everyday - traffic, traffic, roads are closed and in addition to that, we have national guards aiming their weapons toward us," said Tanya Mazin, a student at Baghdad University.

"We are living in stress and fear. I do not think this will end one day because it's going from bad to worse."

-------

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by DLR'sCock
Risk of Civil War Spreads Fear Across Nation
By Jeffrey Fleishman
The Los Angeles Times

Sunday 29 May 2005



Credible sources please.....

CBS News, LA Times, New York Times, etc., need not apply.

:gulp:

[FORD]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Credible sources please.....

CBS News, LA Times, New York Times, etc., need not apply.


:rolleyes:

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by FORD
:rolleyes:

Why the roll eyes?
The man has a valid point, can't deny that.

[DLR'sCock]

So what news sources are considered credible? Just so I know where to look from now on...

[Cathedral]

Dude, i am not even sure a credible news source exists anymore.
I personally don't have any confidence left in our media at all, and that goes for ALL of them.

[Cathedral]

Oh, and my "No Confidence" vote applies to ALL politicians as well.

[BITEYOASS]

Originally posted by Cathedral
Dude, i am not even sure a credible news source exists anymore.
I personally don't have any confidence left in our media at all, and that goes for ALL of them.

Same here, especially after that bullshit about the Quran in the toilet! Fuckin ragheads fired a dozen mortars on my base due to believing that bullshit story!

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Credible sources please.....

You know, like FOX News, Rush, Savage, Hannity, and that super fox Ann [the man] Coulter

:gulp:


;)

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by DLR'sCock
So what news sources are considered credible? Just so I know where to look from now on...

The ones he agrees with. :cool:

[kentuckyklira]

The century´s most atrocious war crime, already committed!

Way to go USA!

And if you don´t consider this a war crime, read up on your Geneva Convention! Or does the Geneva Convention only apply when the USA is not involved?

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by BITEYOASS
Same here, especially after that bullshit about the Quran in the toilet! Fuckin ragheads fired a dozen mortars on my base due to believing that bullshit story! So they´re "Ragheads" are they??

Well, what´s your expression for Christian nutheads who take potshots at abortion clinics?

[DrMaddVibe]

Lunatics with poor aim?

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by kentuckyklira
The century´s most atrocious war crime, already committed!

Way to go USA!

And if you don´t consider this a war crime, read up on your Geneva Convention! Or does the Geneva Convention only apply when the USA is not involved?


The fact that you have two fags in your avatar says it all.

:gulp:

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
The fact that you have two fags in your avatar says it all.

:gulp: One of the two is in this pic too!

:p
http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=478717

[Nickdfresh]

BOYS! STOP IT!
http://ak1.aka.eonline.com/7/1480/123/0001/www.eonline.com/Features/Features/Carreymoments/Moments/Images/05_dumb.jpg
Let's get this thread back on track; minus the gay porn phototshops!

May 29, 2005

latimes.com (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-iraq29may29.story)

BAGHDAD — As thousands of newly minted police officers in mismatched uniforms moved Saturday to cinch a security chokehold around this Iraqi capital, insurgents continued to lash out across the rest of the country.

Nearly 40 people were killed in 24 hours in a rash of suicide bombings, assassinations and ambushes, from the northern city of Sinjar to the western border with Syria and the town of Hillah south of Baghdad. Even with the capital cordoned off, militants managed to lob four mortar rounds into a factory on the outskirts, killing a watchman.

The Iraqi government's "Operation Lightning," announced two days in advance by the defense and interior ministers, will deploy 40,000 police officers and national guardsmen in the first major Iraqi-led offensive against an insurgency that has killed nearly 700 Iraqis in the weeks since Prime Minister Ibrahim Jafari and his Cabinet were sworn in May 3.

That concentration of forces represents at least a fourth of all Iraqi security personnel, raising concern among some in this violence-plagued country that the architects of the massive sweep of the capital have left the rest of Iraq unprotected.

"Every time they start an operation in one region, they forget about the others, so the terrorists run to the exposed places," said Ammar Khazal, 33, who owns a clothing shop. He lamented the announcement Thursday of the operation, giving insurgents a two-day window to slip out of Baghdad.

Nabil Issa, a 58-year-old linguist, predicted that the militants would launch retaliatory operations as soon as the campaign of searches and roadblocks eased.

Military analysts defended the operation, including its advance announcement, as an overdue confrontation with the insurgents, who have killed at least 20 senior government officials this month. Doctors, scientists and other professionals are afraid to leave their homes.

"One of the strategies is to get them to try to leave Baghdad for the provinces," Mohammed Askari, a retired general from Saddam Hussein's disbanded army, said of the hundreds, if not thousands, of insurgents they hope to flush out of Baghdad. "If they try to go west or to Diyala province [to the northeast], it will be easy to pursue them."

The operation, to be aided by about 7,000 U.S. troops and smaller contingents from other foreign forces, got off to an inauspicious start. Police set up the first of an expected 675 checkpoints along the capital's outskirts before dawn, but shortly after noon, the units stationed on the dangerous road leading to the western suburb of Abu Ghraib left the checkpoints unmanned. A source at the Interior Ministry said some of the stop-and-search teams were designed to be "mobile."

With the Abu Ghraib prison already holding thousands of detainees, it was unclear where anyone arrested in the crackdown would be held. In a preliminary sweep last weekend, more than 430 people were detained.

Government officials denied that channeling so many police and special forces to Baghdad would leave other areas vulnerable.

"The deployment of such numbers in Baghdad won't influence the security situation in other provinces. We have more than 160,000 Iraqi police now," said Col. Adnan Abdulrahman, an Interior Ministry spokesman. "In addition, we have the multinational troops ready to help us if they are needed."

In Sadr City, a Shiite Muslim district loyal to Muqtada Sadr, the word on the street was that forces loyal to the rebel cleric planned to cooperate with the government offensive.

Authorities probably announced details of the operation ahead of time to explain the highly visible force movements, Iraqi and U.S. officials noted.

"It's kind of hard to hide the size of these movements and the amount of police and military forces, from the Iraqi side, that will be needed," said Lt. Col. Steven Boylan, spokesman for the U.S.-led military coalition.

"They're going on the offensive. They're putting everyone in the terrorist organizations on notice that the tables are turning," Boylan said of the announcement. "There was very careful planning for this. I think they've taken everything into account and that this is the right course of action."

But as Iraqi police, many of them new recruits with minimal training, fanned out across Baghdad, car bombs and remote-controlled roadside detonations took what has become a chillingly routine daily toll.

Authorities in Sinjar said witnesses reported at least two simultaneous suicide bombings about 10:30 a.m. outside a U.S.-Iraqi military base in the town, 75 miles northwest of Mosul. The blasts, which killed six, appeared to have been set off prematurely, said Lt. Col. Karawan Fatih of the local police force.

"They were probably targeting the laborers working inside the base," he said, noting the explosives-laden cars had been unable to get to the heart of the crowd because of the concrete blast walls around the entrance.

In Kirkuk, a tense city claimed by Kurds, Arabs and Turkmens, gunmen killed Sheik Sabhan Khalaf Jibouri, 52. The Sunni tribal leader was known to be a mediator among the city's ethnic and religious factions.

Late Friday and in the early hours of Saturday, bombs killed two civilians in Mahmoudiya, south of Baghdad; gunmen killed five visitors to a car exhibition in Latifiya; four Iraqi soldiers were killed in an ambush near Hillah; and three died in a roadside blast in Mosul.

In Tikrit, Hussein's hometown, seven people died late Friday when a suicide bomber plowed his car into a police patrol.

Authorities also reported that 10 pilgrims returning from a shrine in Syria were killed and their bodies dumped in the Iraqi town of Qaim, near the border.

In Baghdad, Deputy Security Minister Abdulkarim Alinizy confirmed that a video posted on the Internet showed the body of Japanese hostage Akihiko Saito. The contractor and a veteran of the French Foreign Legion had been wounded and kidnapped May 8 in an insurgent ambush near Baghdad.

Times staff writers Saif Rasheed and Raheem Salman in Baghdad and special correspondents Ali Windawi in Kirkuk and Zaydan Khalaf in Samarra and special correspondents in Tikrit and Mosul contributed to this report.

--------------------------------

Hilla suicide bombers kill 27
Top U.S. general: Operation Lightning under way

Monday, May 30, 2005 Posted: 9:50 AM EDT (1350 GMT)

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/WORLD/meast/05/30/iraq.main/story.01.hilla.ap.jpg
This vehicle was damaged by the suicide bombings Monday in Hilla.

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/05/30/iraq.main/index.html)) -- A pair of suicide bombers, wearing vests packed with explosives, detonated themselves Monday in Hilla, killing 27 people -- many of them police -- and wounding 118, police said.

One of the bombers attacked outside the governor's office where former Iraqi police commandos were protesting their dismissals for lying on job applications.

The other suicide bombing occurred about 150 feet (50 meters) away near the Babil health center where police recruits were in line for physicals.

Hilla is about 60 miles (100 km) south of the Iraqi capital.

Meanwhile, Iraqi security forces and U.S. soldiers in Baghdad captured a former general in Saddam Hussein's intelligence network, a U.S. military statement said.

"The man captured was part of Saddam Hussein's intelligence network and was also involved with the Fedayeen, a criminal secret police organization of the old regime," the statement said.

"He now leads the military wings of several terror cells operating in the west Baghdad neighborhood of Ghazaliyah."

The statement did not name the intelligence official, who was captured in raids early Sunday.

During the same raids, at least four others suspected of insurgent activities were taken into custody, according to the statement.

Iraqi and U.S. forces also arrested the head of the Iraqi Islamic Party and his three sons in a northwestern Baghdad neighborhood, police sources said.

Mohsen Abdul Hameed, a Sunni Arab and a former member of Iraq's Governing Council, and his sons were taken into custody during the 6 a.m. Monday operation in the Khadhra section of the capital.

U.S. and Iraqi forces released Hameed a few hours later after determining he had been "detained by mistake," according to a statement from the Coalition Press Information Center.
Operation Lightning

A large-scale Iraqi-U.S. crackdown on insurgents in the Baghdad area has begun, the chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff said on Monday.

"It got under way in the last several days," Air Force Gen. Richard Myers said.

Operation Lightning is the largest undertaking to date for the new Iraqi military. About 40,000 troops and police are expected to be deployed in and around the capital in an effort to halt insurgent attacks that have left hundreds of people dead in the past month.

The effort will be backed up by about 10,000 American troops, U.S. officials said.

A statement released by the Iraqi Islamic Party questioned Operation Lightning. "Our party looks with concern at the Operation Lightening (sic) announced by the interior and defense ministers on Thursday," the IIP statement said.

"It is feared that the operation is an extension of the previous practices of the American forces and then Iraqi forces and which, we believe, lacked the strategic vision in how to deal with the complicated security file in Iraq."

Other developments

More than 140 car bombings occurred in May, according to a senior U.S. military intelligence official in Baghdad. That exceeds the previous record of 135 in April. There were nearly 60 suicide bombings in May, down from 69 in April, he said.

Published letters reportedly written in jail by former Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz plead for international intervention and say he has been unjustly accused and denied access to personal mail.

Myers said Sunday that military officials "tend to believe" that wanted terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi has been wounded.

A U.S. soldier died last week from wounds sustained three weeks earlier, the U.S. military said Sunday in a statement. Sgt. First Class Randy Collins with the 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment, was wounded May 4 by a mortar attack near Mosul, according to the statement.

CNN's Ryan Chilcote, Arwa Damon, Enes Dulami, Kianne Sadeq and Mohammad Tawfeeq contributed to this report.

A 150 carbombings!? Some are wondering if we are teetering on the brink...I'm am hoping some stability is reached, but we are in a god awful mess right now.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Cathedral
Why the roll eyes?
The man has a valid point, can't deny that.

And rolling his eyes was a valid reaction, can't deny that either.;)

[ODShowtime]

The way things are going, the whole place will be empty and we can have Arizona II over there real soon.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
The way things are going, the whole place will be empty and we can have Arizona II over there real soon.

With oil even!:)

[Warham]

A German talking about us committing atrocious war crimes..

Does anybody else see the irony in that?

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Warham
A German talking about us committing atrocious war crimes..

Does anybody else see the irony in that?

Carries the SAME irony as if Bush, Cheney, Rummy, Rice, Wolfie, Perle, or a host of others talk about it:rolleyes:

At least THEY learned from THEIR mistakes.

Sure hope we do on THIS day:cool:


Happy Memorial Day to Warham.

=BROTH=

[Warham]

Happy Memorial Day to you as well, LM.

:D

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by Warham
A German talking about us committing atrocious war crimes..

Does anybody else see the irony in that? Do you mean to say the Native Americans weren´t raped and slaughtered, millions of Africans weren´t forced into slavery, dictators like Batista and Pinochet weren´t supported, innocent civilians in Vietnam weren´t slaughtered, etc. etc. etc.?

OK then!

Otherwise, my arguments are worth every bit as much as yours are!

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by kentuckyklira
Do you mean to say the Native Americans weren´t raped and slaughtered, millions of Africans weren´t forced into slavery, dictators like Batista and Pinochet weren´t supported, innocent civilians in Vietnam weren´t slaughtered, etc. etc. etc.?

OK then!

Otherwise, my arguments are worth every bit as much as yours are!

We have PLENTY of blood on our hands as a Nation, KY

Your points are not without merit.

Thank you for helping to enlighten some in here with your "outsider" view.

It is much appreciated by many of us.

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
We have PLENTY of blood on our hands as a Nation, KY

Your points are not without merit.

Thank you for helping to enlighten some in here with your "outsider" view.

It is much appreciated by many of us. Peanut-brains like BigBlubberButt tend to ignore that I´ve never denied the atrocities my ancestors committed.

The actions of my ancestors shouldn´t keep me from having an own opinion concerning what´s going on in the world today!

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by kentuckyklira
Peanut-brains like BigBlubberButt tend to ignore that I´ve never denied the atrocities my ancestors committed.



Big Bland Brie is just a jingoistic, kool-ade drinking, ditto-head.

He/She does NOT represent most of us here.

But he/she is good for an occasional laugh:D

[Angel]

I can't believe some need a news article to realize this. Use Common Sense, pay attention to the news, and you can pretty much figure it out for yourselves. Oh right, your government tells your news sources what they can print and what they can't, don't they?

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Angel
I can't believe some need a news article to realize this. Use Common Sense, pay attention to the news, and you can pretty much figure it out for yourselves. Oh right, your government tells your news sources what they can print and what they can't, don't they?

Indeed.

The "fourth estate" in this country, it's media, has been hijacked by this administartaion.

Think about it.


PAYING "journalists" to shill for their programs/agenda [ Armstrong Williams, et al ]

INSTALLING gay male escorts in the Press Room to lob softball questions at the DOLT in Chief.

Threatening news organiziations [ CBS, Newsweek ]

Blaming the "Liberal Media" for reporting "only negative" stories about the "war"

FUCK THIS ADMINISTRATION, AND ALL IT STANDS FOR.

Bring our Troops Home NOW.

NO MORE BLOOD FOR OIL AND/OR MILITARY BASES

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Indeed.

The "fourth estate" in this country, it's media, has been hijacked by this administartaion.

Think about it.


PAYING "journalists" to shill for their programs/agenda [ Armstrong Williams, et al ]

INSTALLING gay male escorts in the Press Room to lob softball questions at the DOLT in Chief.

Threatening news organiziations [ CBS, Newsweek ]

Blaming the "Liberal Media" for reporting "only negative" stories about the "war"

FUCK THIS ADMINISTRATION, AND ALL IT STANDS FOR.

Bring our Troops Home NOW.

NO MORE BLOOD FOR OIL AND/OR MILITARY BASES

Geez, how many liberal columns did you have to read to come up with that CRAP?

Angel can do better and she's a drunken Canuck Chick without a clue.

:D :D

[Warham]

They've hijacked the media?

Well, they haven't hijacked it well enough, to this point.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Warham
They've hijacked the media?

Well, they haven't hijacked it well enough, to this point.

How's the air up there?;)

[Warham]

I could list at LEAST five to ten rags and networks that would attack Bush just for pronoucing 'nuclear' the same way Jimmy Carter did.

[Nickdfresh]

Iraq insurgency in 'last throes,' Cheney says

Tuesday, May 31, 2005 Posted: 3:50 AM EDT (0750 GMT)

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/US/05/30/cheney.iraq/story.cheney.lkl.cnn.jpg
Cheney is "absolutely convinced we did the right thing in Iraq."

WASHINGTON (CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/30/cheney.iraq/index.html)) -- The insurgency in Iraq is "in the last throes," Vice President Dick Cheney says, and he predicts that the fighting will end before the Bush administration leaves office.

In a wide-ranging interview Monday on CNN's "Larry King Live," Cheney cited the recent push by Iraqi forces to crack down on insurgent activity in Baghdad and reports that the most-wanted terrorist leader, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, had been wounded.

The vice president said he expected the war would end during President Bush's second term, which ends in 2009.

"I think we may well have some kind of presence there over a period of time," Cheney said. "The level of activity that we see today from a military standpoint, I think, will clearly decline. I think they're in the last throes, if you will, of the insurgency."

Cheney was among the Bush administration's most forceful advocates of the U.S.-led invasion in 2003. Bush, Cheney and other top officials said war was necessary because Iraq was maintaining illicit stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons and concealing a nuclear weapons program from U.N. weapons inspectors and could have provided those weapons to terrorists.

No banned weapons were found after U.S. troops deposed Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein's government, though U.S. inspectors said Iraq was concealing some weapons-related research from the United Nations.

Nevertheless, Cheney said he was "absolutely convinced we did the right thing in Iraq." He said the United States was making "major progress" in Iraq, where a transitional government took power in April and was working on drafting a new constitution.

"America will be safer in the long run when Iraq, and Afghanistan as well, are no longer safe havens for terrorists or places where people can gather and plan and organize attacks against the United States," he said.

Saddam's government collapsed in just three weeks, but a persistent guerrilla campaign against U.S. troops and the fledgling Iraqi government has lasted more than two years. The number of U.S. troops killed in the conflict now tops 1,650, and estimates of the number of Iraqi deaths range into the tens of thousands.

Since the conflict, the Jordanian-born Islamic militant al-Zarqawi has been blamed for dozens of bombings that have left hundreds of people dead. Reports emerged last week that he had been wounded in combat -- but in an audiotaped statement released Monday on militant Islamic Web sites, a man claiming to be al-Zarqawi said the injury was minor.

So, the "light is at the end of the tunnel?" "Deja-vu all over again...."

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
[

"I think we may well have some kind of presence there over a period of time," Cheney said. "The level of activity that we see today from a military standpoint, I think, will clearly decline. I think they're in the last throes, if you will, of the insurgency."

"[/i]

Well THAT must be why we're building 14 PERMANENT military bases, and the world's LARGEST embassy :rolleyes:


unfuckingbelievable

[Warham]

Do you have a problem with military bases?

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Warham
Do you have a problem with military bases?

:rolleyes: jesus, hambone, get serious.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Warham
Do you have a problem with military bases?

He has a problem with the military.


:gun:

:gulp:

[Warham]

I am being serious. Do you have a problem with us having military bases in the most unstable part of the world?

[Angel]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Geez, how many liberal columns did you have to read to come up with that CRAP?

Angel can do better and she's a drunken Canuck Chick without a clue.

:D :D

You're wrong there. I don't drink, and I have more than just a clue. ;)

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Warham
I am being serious. Do you have a problem with us having military bases in the most unstable part of the world?

NO,

I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE D.O.D. AND THE ADMINISTRATION LYING ABOUT THE REAL REASON[S] WE WENT INTO IRAQ





By Vernon Loeb
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, April 30, 2003; Page A01

PRINCE SULTAN AIR BASE, Saudi Arabia, April 29 -- Having removed the government of Saddam Hussein from Iraq, the U.S. military will end operations in Saudi Arabia later this year, freeing the kingdom of a major political problem caused by the visible presence of U.S. forces in the land of Islam's two holiest shrines, defense officials announced today.

Shutting down U.S. flights from Prince Sultan air base and moving the U.S. Combined Air Operations Center from here to nearby Qatar mark the beginning of what Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld has described as a major realignment of U.S. military forces, not only in the Persian Gulf, but also in Europe and the Far East. Meeting this morning with service members here inside a giant aircraft hangar, Rumsfeld said he is attempting "to refashion and rebalance those arrangements so that we're organized for the future."



A month ago, at the height of the Iraq war, 10,000 U.S. military personnel and 200 fighters, tankers and surveillance aircraft were based at Prince Sultan, a sprawling, 250-square-mile compound in the flat Saudi desert 70 miles southeast of Riyadh, the capital. Even before the war, U.S. warplanes flew from here to patrol the no-fly zone over southern Iraq. Since 1992, the U.S. Air Force has flown 286,000 such sorties, straining budgets, aircraft and personnel.

U.S. planes patrolling a second no-fly zone, over northern Iraq, were based at Incirlik air base in Turkey. The Air Force also plans to withdraw most of those planes, U.S. officials said, after basing them at Incirlik since 1991 to fly patrols designed to protect Iraq's Kurdish minority in a 17,000-square-mile autonomous zone in the northeastern corner of the country.

"Needless to say, the Saudis here have been enormously hospitable to us," Rumsfeld said today. "Now that the Iraqi regime has changed, we're able to discontinue [patrolling the no-fly zones] and those forces will be able to be moved to other assignments and other requirements around the world."

The withdrawal began in earnest Monday when all functions at a high-tech operations center here used to command the air war over Iraq were transferred to a similar facility at Al Udeid air base in Qatar. All aircraft and virtually all military personnel will be gone from this base by the end of the summer, although infrastructure to reactivate the operations center will be left in place, according to Rear Adm. Dave Nichols, the air war's deputy commander.

In addition, two small training missions will remain in the kingdom.

Rumsfeld, on a tour of the Persian Gulf region, and Prince Sultan, Saudi Arabia's defense minister, said the transfer of forces from Saudi Arabia was mutually agreed on. The two countries will continue close military relations, they stressed, particularly training and joint exercises.

Since the fall of Hussein has done away with the need for U.S. aircraft to patrol the southern no-fly zone, Sultan said at a joint news conference with Rumsfeld after talks at his palace in Riyadh, "there is obviously no need for them to remain. This does not mean, having said that, that we requested them to move from the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia."

Saudi Arabia's royal family, which regards custody of the shrines at Mecca and Medina as a sacred mission, long has been uneasy at the visible U.S. presence, which is resented by many Saudis and other Arabs as intrusion on holy soil. The basing of U.S. troops here has been denounced repeatedly by Osama bin Laden, a Saudi, who has demanded their withdrawal since the end of the 1991 Persian Gulf War.

While Saudi Arabia balked at assuming the same high-profile role in the latest Iraq war that it did in the 1991 Gulf War, the royal family quietly agreed in February to virtually every U.S. request for military and logistical support, including use of the operations center here and the staging of Special Operations forces from bases in the country. Saudi Arabia also boosted oil production before the war to help stabilize world oil prices.

Despite this cooperation, the Saudis remained highly sensitive about the presence of U.S. military forces in the kingdom, both before and during the war in Iraq, which was unpopular among the Saudi people.

A senior defense official said the decision to leave Saudi Arabia was made in part to help relieve internal political pressure on the royal family. But the official stressed that neither U.S. nor Saudi defense officials have any interest in terminating close military relations.



PLEASE READ THIS PART CAREFULLY



"The Saudis will be happy when we leave," the U.S. official said. "But they're concerned that it not look as if it's precipitous, because it will look like bin Laden won."








The Pentagon, for its part, will be freed from a burden associated with patrolling the southern no-fly zone to protect Iraq's Shiite population and prevent Hussein's government from threatening its southern neighbors.

During the Iraq war, air missions were flown from 38 bases, stretching from Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean to Whiteman Air Force Base in Missouri, home of the B-2 stealth bombers, which flew half of their sorties over Iraq directly from the United States. A dozen of those bases in the region were quickly built specifically for the war. But a year or two from now, the Pentagon expects to have far fewer bases in the region, depending upon the requirements for supporting continuing military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.

For the foreseeable future, the U.S. military presence in the region will remain high, with 135,000 military personnel now in Iraq. Some inside and outside the Pentagon, including Gen. Eric K. Shinseki, the Army's chief of staff, believe stability operations could require several hundred thousand U.S. and allied forces for some time. But Rumsfeld and his deputy, Paul D. Wolfowitz, have said they believe the mission will require far fewer troops.

Rumsfeld said in an interview Monday on al-Jazeera, the Qatar-based satellite television network, that he has no intention of establishing permanent military bases inside Iraq. But the U.S. military is currently using Baghdad's airport and five other military airfields to support stability operations and deliver humanitarian supplies.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
He has a problem with the military.


:gun:

:gulp:


Liar.

:rolleyes:

[Warham]

Yeah, we went into Iraq to give more contracts to Halliburton.

:rolleyes:

Yeah, and for oil, baby!

Forgot all about the greedy, insidious Bush family trying to get their mits on that oil over there.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Warham
Yeah, we went into Iraq to give more contracts to Halliburton.

:rolleyes:

Yeah, and for oil, baby!

Forgot all about the greedy, insidious Bush family trying to get their mits on that oil over there.

Forget it.

I'm a Liberal moron.

Let's not even bother.

:cool:

You and Brie know everything, and this Administration can do no wrong:rolleyes:

[Warham]

Didn't say it could do no wrong. It has done wrong. For instance, I disagree with Bush greatly on immigration control.

But the reasons for going into Iraq are not as simple as the ones liberals trot out like bumper-sticker slogans.

[LoungeMachine]

WE WENT IN KNOWING WE NEEDED TO REPLACE THE SAUDI BASES

WE WENT IN KNOWING THERE WERE NO WMDS

WE WENT IN KNOWING THEY HAD NO NUKES

WE WENT IN KNOWING THEY WERE NO THREAT

WE WENT IN KNOWING WHO WOULD GET THE CONTRACTS

and we went in knowing the cost in US lives, which is really disgusting

[Warham]

Funny how you guys all say there we knew there were no WMDs in Iraq, but some of your party members in the Congress, and even your former President thought they had WMDs up until and in some cases PAST the time we went in there. I think I remember hearing Clinton and Jean Francois both go on record in '98 about them having WMDs.

It's nice when you can recant your statements based on after-the-fact information, isn't it?

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Warham
Funny how you guys all say there we knew there were no WMDs in Iraq, but some of your party members in the Congress, and even your former President thought they had WMDs up until and in some cases PAST the time we went in there. I think I remember hearing Clinton and Jean Francois both go on record in '98 about them having WMDs.

It's nice when you can recant your statements based on after-the-fact information, isn't it?

I also remember BOTH Rice and Powell on National TV in 2001 state that HUSSEIN WAS CONTAINED, AND POSED NO THREAT TO HIS NEIGHBORS, OR ANYONE ELSE.

Yeah, pretty funny:rolleyes:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
[B


- The insurgency in Iraq is "in the last throes," Vice President Dick Cheney says, and he predicts that the fighting will end before the Bush administration leaves office.

[/B]

This is the same guy who predicted we'd be greeted with flowers and candy:rolleyes:


Sure hope the "light at the end of the tunnel" doesnt turn out to be in the form of a "mushroom cloud" :rolleyes:

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
WE WENT IN KNOWING WE NEEDED TO REPLACE THE SAUDI BASES

WE WENT IN KNOWING THERE WERE NO WMDS

WE WENT IN KNOWING THEY HAD NO NUKES

WE WENT IN KNOWING THEY WERE NO THREAT


Every incredible intel source thought they posed a threat: the Brits, the French, the Russians, even the UN. The UN wanted to keep on looking FOREVER because it kept them employed. Self-preservation.

What is more telling is now people have forgotten these quotes that these liberals and their little sheep were squawking when they were carrying the football. Well I sure haven't forgotten:


"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to
develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them.
That is our bottom line."
President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We
want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass
destruction program."
President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal
here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear,
chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest
security threat we face."
Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten time
since 1983."
Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb,18,1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the
U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if
appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond
effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of
mass destruction programs."

Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin (D-MI), Tom
Daschle (D-SD), John Kerry( D - MA), and others Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass
destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he
has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D,CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has .. chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass
destruction and palaces for his cronies."
Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons
programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs
continue at apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition,
Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the
cover of an illicit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that
will threaten the United States and our allies."

Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others,
Dec . 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and threat
to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandates of
the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the
means of delivering them."
Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical
weapons throughout his country."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to
deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is
in power."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing
weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27,2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are
confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and
biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to
build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence
reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority
to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because believe
that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a
real and grave threat to our security."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively
to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the
next five years .. We also should remember we have always underestimated
the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass
destruction."
Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years,
every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and
destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This
he has refused to do"
Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show
that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological
weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He
has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al
Qaeda members.. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam
Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and
chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10,2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam
Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for
the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Bob Graham (D,FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal,
murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a
particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to
miscalculation ..And now he is miscalculating America's response to his
continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction
... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is
real."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA),Jan.23. 2003




WE WENT IN KNOWING WHO WOULD GET THE CONTRACTS

Tell me how many other global corporations can do the job Halliburton can? Name three so we can have a competitive bidding process.


and we went in knowing the cost in US lives, which is really disgusting

True enough. US resolve hasn't been swift enough or sure enough. Rumsfeld was never the right man for SoD. The bottom line is that if we pull out now we'll just cost more lives by having to go back later.

[Warham]

We were greeted with flowers. Didn't you see the pictures? Or were you too busy watching Dan Rather?

[Warham]

http://solport.com/resources/Liberate%20Iraq/Female%20Soldier%20-%20Iraqi%20gives%20flowers%20-%20AP.JPG

[Warham]

http://www.25idl.army.mil/deployment/OIF%20Iraq/Deployment/Big/OIF%20May17_2004%20Kimmons%20040511-A-8804K-006.jpg

[Warham]

http://www.arcent.army.mil/cflcc_today/2003/april/images/apr12_16/Soldier1.jpg

[Warham]

There are many, many, MANY more pictures like those.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Tell me how many other global corporations can do the job Halliburton can? Name three so we can have a competitive bidding process.

That's completely irrelevant. The war, that was waged because of a DECISION, still created vast new demand for their products and services and petrolium in general.

It's not Halliburton vs someone else profiting off the war, it's Halliburton or no one. But the war was waged and Halliburton did profit.

It's really not that fucking hard man. Jesus Christ. :rolleyes:

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
That's completely irrelevant. The war, that was waged because of a DECISION, still created vast new demand for their products and services and petrolium in general.

It's not Halliburton vs someone else profiting off the war, it's Halliburton or no one. But the war was waged and Halliburton did profit.

It's really not that fucking hard man. Jesus Christ. :rolleyes:

What you said was completely illogical and irrational.

:gulp:

[Warham]

Doesn't that sum up liberal ideology? Illogical and irrational?

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Warham
There are many, many, MANY more pictures like those.

Jesus, any big motherfucking ZAPPA photos you'd like to share with us?

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Warham
Doesn't that sum up liberal ideology? Illogical and irrational?

Liberal bloggers are pushing for an official investigation into the run-up to the IRAQ WAR, and what the Administration knew. Looks like something may come of this!

[Warham]

Just wanted to make it perfectly clear, in case any of you liberals don't have your contacts in on purpose.

[Warham]

Liberal bloggers should start with the Clinton administration's role in all this first, then they can get to Bush's administration.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Warham
Liberal bloggers should start with the Clinton administration's role in all this first, then they can get to Bush's administration.

He was investigated, nearly to death.

http://www.angelfire.com/fl/pjcomix/images/Monica07.gif

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Warham
Doesn't that sum up liberal ideology? Illogical and irrational?


Actually, this is it: :D

http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/content/6407.jpg

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Actually, this is it: :D

http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/content/6407.jpg

The IRAQI WAR is on the roof.;)

[Warham]

Liberals don't support the Iraq War, so your analogy is flat.

The roof would be akin to the Roe vs. Wade ruling in 1973. It's the pinacle of liberal achievement to this point, with social security right next to it.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
What you said was completely illogical and irrational.

:gulp:

No, you simply failed to comprehend it.

It wasn't my best work to be sure, but it was definitely logical. That was the whole point.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
No, you simply failed to comprehend it.

It wasn't my best work to be sure, but it was definitely logical. That was the whole point.

Nope. It was a silly little post without any merit.

:gulp:

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Nope. It was a silly little post without any merit.

:gulp: BigBlubberButt doesn´t understand it;

means it must be stupid and without merit!:( :o

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by Warham
There are many, many, MANY more pictures like those. In most third world countries, a $ or 2 would get me a pic of a kid giving me a flower!

If I ever spend a holiday in a third world country again, I´ll please you with a few pics of kids welcoming me with flowers!

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by kentuckyklira
In most third world countries, a $ or 2 would get me a pic of a kid giving me a flower!

If I ever spend a holiday in a third world country again, I´ll please you with a few pics of kids welcoming me with flowers!


Children, money, and you do not mix you fucking pervert. Just stay away from them you damn child molestor. :mad:

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Warham
Liberals don't support the Iraq War, so your analogy is flat.

The roof would be akin to the Roe vs. Wade ruling in 1973. It's the pinacle of liberal achievement to this point, with social security right next to it.

Really? Are you sure? But everyone of those pillars can be applied to the rush to the IRAQ desert...

FREEDOM FRIES (guilt, projection, name calling, THOUGHT CUNTROL!)

WMD's, TERRORISM (hysteria)

HUSSEIN ATTACKED AMERICA (Lies, denial of reality)

Holiday Lyrics

Hear the sound of the falling rain
Coming down like an armageddon plague (HEY!)
The shame, the ones who die without a name

There's a song sounding out of key
To a hymn called faith and misery (Hey!)
A plead, the company lost the war today

I beg to dream and differ from the hollow lies
This is the dawning of the rest of our lives
On holiday

There's a drum pounding out of time
Another protestor has crossed the line (HEY!)
The line, the money's on the other side

Can I get another amen (AMEN!)
There's a rag wrapped around the score of men (HEY!)
A gag, A plastic bag on a monument

I beg to dream and differ from the hollow lies
This is the dawning of the rest of our lives
On holiday

"The representative from California has the floor"

Seek out to the president gasbag
Bombs away is your punishment
Pulverize the Eiffel tower
And criticize the government
Bang bang goes the broken glass man
Kill all the fags that don't agree
Triumph by fires, sinning buyers
Thats not a way that's meant for me
Thank god, check out we're going on a holiday

I beg to dream and differ from the hollow lies
This is the dawning of the rest of our lives
I beg to dream and differ from the hollow lies
This is the dawning of the rest of our lives

This is our lives on holiday



--GREEN DAY

[Warham]

You like the French, Nick?

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Children, money, and you do not mix you fucking pervert. Just stay away from them you damn child molestor. :mad: :sex:

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Warham
You like the French, Nick?

I've liked most French PEOPLE I've actually met.

[Warham]

No, no, I meant the government.

[Nickdfresh]

I don't like many Gov't. But I don't especially hate the FRENCH for looking out for their self interests. I mean imagine a gov't that didn't want to send troops to IRAQ....

[Nickdfresh]

June 2, 2005

Suicide Attacks Rising Rapidly
Increasingly, the bombers are Iraqis instead of foreign infiltrators. Civilians and police, not GIs, are the prime targets.

By Carol J. Williams, Times Staff Writer
http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2005-06/17833615.jpg
A U.S. soldier walks past the site of a suicide car bombing that killed one civilian but missed a U.S. military convoy. Insurgents appear to have new tactics, including cruising with bomb-laden vehicles in search of targets.
(AP)

BAGHDAD — Suicide bombings have surged to become the Iraqi insurgency's weapon of choice, with a staggering 90 attacks accounting for most of last month's 750 deaths at the militants' hands.

Suicide attacks outpaced car bombings almost 2-to-1 in May, according to figures compiled by the U.S. military, The Times and other media outlets. In April, there were 69 suicide attacks, more than in the entire year preceding the June 28, 2004, hand-over of sovereignty.

The frequency of suicide bombings here is unprecedented, exceeding that of Palestinian attacks against Israel and of other militant insurgencies, such as the Chechen rebellion in Russia. Baghdad saw five suicide bombings in a six-hour span Sunday.

Early today, three suicide bombers killed at least 16 Iraqis in blasts north of Baghdad.

The first, around 8 a.m., ripped through a restaurant in Tuz Khurmatu where the Kurdish deputy prime minister, Rosh Shawais, was having breakfast. He was unharmed but a bodyguard was among the nine killed.

In Baqubah, another blast killed the deputy head of the Diyala province governing council, Hussein Alwan Timimi, and four others.

In Kirkuk, a bomber plowed his car into a U.S. consulate convoy. Two Iraqis died and 12 were hurt, a witness said.

With U.S.-led forces now better protected with concrete blast walls and rings of concertina wire and sandbags, militants have taken to targeting Iraqi police and civilians in their bid to convince Iraqis that their new leaders can't protect them. And increasingly, Iraqis are believed to be carrying out some of the suicide attacks.

U.S. officials and Iraqi analysts say the insurgents' resources are increasing on several fronts: money to buy vehicles and explosives, expertise in wiring car and human bombs and intelligence leaks that help them target U.S. and Iraqi forces.

Suicide attacks are on the rise because the explosive devices "are simple to construct and easy to operate, thus making suicide bombers difficult to detect," said Navy Cmdr. Fred Gaghan, in charge of the Combined Explosive Exploitation Cell in Iraq that studies bomb scenes for clues to insurgent tactics.

"They are viewed by terrorists as a successful means with which to kill or injure coalition, Iraqi security forces and innocent Iraqi citizens," Gaghan said.

"At this time, there is nothing to indicate that the availability of volunteers is on the decline," he said, noting the media coverage and videos of suicide bombings posted on the Internet that are said to fuel extremist recruitment.

Saad Obeidi, a retired Iraqi major general and security expert, suggested that President Bush had invited Islamic extremists to bring their fight against America here.

"One aim of the U.S. military once it invaded Iraq was to lure all insurgents and terrorists from all over the world to confront them here," he said.

The first suicide bombings of the insurgency were attributed to foreign infiltrators, mostly Palestinians, Yemenis, Syrians and Saudis. But Obeidi believes that has changed.

"The Iraqi way of thinking in the past totally rejected that someone would kill himself," Obeidi said. "But once they realized how powerful this weapon is and saw its effectiveness, Iraqis started getting involved in suicide operations."

Some U.S. officials agree.

"There's a kind of axiom out there that says Iraqis aren't suicide bombers," Gen. George W. Casey, commander of multinational forces in Iraq, told reporters in Baghdad this year. "I'm not sure that's the case. I believe there are Iraqi Islamic extremists … that are very capable of getting into cars and blowing themselves up."

Other U.S. officials say they still believe that foreign fighters are responsible for most of the suicide attacks, which have increasingly targeted Iraqis.

"There is no evidence this is being done by Iraqis," said U.S. Maj. Gen. John DeFreitas III, intelligence chief for the multinational mission that has about 150,000 troops in Iraq. "In every case we've seen, the driver has been a foreigner."

Coalition officials acknowledge, however, that the numbers show an Iraqi-dominated insurgency. Fewer than 5% of those killed or captured were foreigners, one official noted. He also described the influx from abroad as making up a "very, very small part" of the estimated 12,000 to 20,000 insurgents.

A recent attack in the city of Baqubah points to an Iraqi role in suicide bombings.

On May 15, Imad Shakir, a police major, was inspecting his security unit outside the Baqubah courthouse when he saw an unfamiliar young man in an ill-fitting police uniform approaching.

As the unit's officers asked the purported first lieutenant for identification, Shakir became suspicious and leaped to seize him. But the impostor detonated his explosives vest, lumpy beneath his blue clothing, killing Shakir and three bystanders.

What set the Baqubah bombing apart from the few others in which survivors got a glimpse of the attacker was that the killer was recognizably Iraqi, said the Diyala province police officer in charge of the investigation.

"The injured people assured us that the suicide attacker was Iraqi. They could tell by the way he talked and from his appearance," said the officer, who spoke on the condition that he not be identified.

Obeidi, the retired Iraqi general, sees the rise in suicide bombings as recognition among Iraqi extremists that such attacks are an effective weapon against the superior numbers and arms of the coalition forces.

Insurgents "are choosing this method to create a balance against superpower might," he said. "The use of such methods is linked with some spiritual or religious motives. The aim is to die in the name of religion and become a martyr and go to paradise."

Maj. Gen. Munem Said Abdulqadir, head of the Iraqi police force explosive ordnance demolition team in Baghdad, faulted the now-disbanded U.S. Coalition Provisional Authority for barring even mid-level figures of Saddam Hussein's regime from the new security order.

He said he feared there were thousands of technically savvy and disaffected Iraqis, mostly Sunni Arabs, vulnerable to recruitment as suicide bombers.

"Jobless people are very easy targets," he said of the Iraqis being drawn into bomb-making and suicide missions. "Find them jobs, and most will give up."

A few would-be suicide bombers survived their attacks or were arrested after their explosives failed to detonate, and Iraqi police have mined those rare intelligence opportunities.

Early this year, Iraqi TV showed footage of a confession from a burned and bandaged Saudi bomber, Ahmed Abdullah Abdul-Rahman Alshai. An Iraqi bomb-maker arrested in January, Sami Mohammed Ali Said Jaaf, reportedly told interrogators that he had a role in orchestrating bombings in Baghdad, including the Aug. 19, 2003, blast at the U.N. mission that killed 22 people.

But insights to the suicide bombers have been few.

"Often with suicide bombers, there's not enough left of them to be identified," one senior U.S. military official said. With rare exceptions, the perpetrators wage their final battle in anonymity, traveling to their targets without identity papers to deprive police of any intelligence in the event of their capture.

But some techniques have come to light. The police officer investigating the Baqubah case reported a recent innovation: suicide car bombers cruising the streets with their payloads in search of targets. Witnesses at several car bombings last month told police the drivers appeared to have made last-minute decisions about what to strike.

Other attacks appeared to have taken much more planning.

"They are trying to penetrate defensive measures by conducting more complex attacks, double suicide attacks or suicide attacks combined with other weapons such as small-arms fire or mortar attacks," said Gaghan, the Navy officer.

In Hillah, south of Baghdad, where two suicide bombers killed dozens at a demonstration Monday, the second bomber followed the fleeing crowd.

At the scene of another recent bombing, police found a foot duct-taped to the car's accelerator and hands fastened to the steering wheel.

Such restriction, perhaps the result of coercion, would hinder the effectiveness of a suicide strike because the driver would have no control over the detonation, Gaghan noted. Other analysts speculated that the measure wasn't evidence of forced participation but was taken to ensure that the vehicle reached its target even if the driver was shot while approaching.

But those privy to the bombing investigations say that drivers are sometimes duped into deadly bombings.

ADVERTISEMENT
"Some who drive car bombs don't know they are going to blow up. They are told to take a car to a certain location and that they will receive further information afterward," said Kamil Abdulmajeed, chief judge for the 2nd Iraqi Central Criminal Court. "When they arrive, the car is suddenly detonated by remote control."

In the bomb-rattled capital, authorities have advised residents to be vigilant for signs of bombers: cars traveling at high speed with a young male driver as the sole occupant, a low-riding chassis, trunks heavily loaded or tilted. At a May 21 defense strategy session with coalition forces, an Iraqi general said cars had been spotted with religious writing on the side to identify them to other suicide drivers. He did not elaborate, according to a U.S. military report on the session.

The suicide bomber's vehicle of choice has also been consistent. White Volkswagen Passats made in Brazil, which proliferated in the capital during Hussein's regime because he gave them as presents to the families of those killed in the 1991 Persian Gulf War, were used in at least half a dozen blasts that rattled Baghdad last week.

Link (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-bombers2jun02,1,6054940.story?page=1)

Times staff writers Louise Roug and Jeffrey Fleishman and special correspondents in Kirkuk and Baqubah contributed to this report.

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by DLR'sCock
[B]Risk of Civil War Spreads Fear Across Nation
By Jeffrey Fleishman
The Los Angeles Times

Sunday 29 May 2005

Many worry that strains between Sunnis and Shiites...
Oh, that's all. I thought you were talking about a civil war in the U.S. nation.

I thought you were on top of things, Nickypoo.


:spank:

REALLY BAD GUYS

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Phil theStalker
Oh, that's all. I thought you were talking about a civil war in the U.S. nation.

I thought you were on top of things, Nickypoo.


:spank:

REALLY BAD GUYS

Um, DLR's COCK started this thread PHIL...

Are you still at the ROGAN board btw? What is/was your user name there?

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I don't like many Gov't. But I don't especially hate the FRENCH for looking out for their self interests. I mean imagine a gov't that didn't want to send troops to IRAQ....
Nick, this has GOT t2o be 100% sarcasm.

No human being can really be this stupid.

uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh

Except George Bush, uh uh.


=PtS=
:spank:

A SIMPLE QUESTION

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Um, DLR's COCK started this thread PHIL...

Are you still at the ROGAN board btw? What is/was your user name there?
Oh man, hundreds of user names, hundreds of bans. I'm the king record holder hands down. That's an undergroud RB secret. Many falsely claim the title.


=PtS=
:spank:

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Um, DLR's COCK started this thread PHIL...
See, that's what happens t2o ya when you get out of bed and smoke a joint.


:spank:

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Nope. It was a silly little post without any merit.

:gulp:

No, you're just a butt-pirate. You've got the flag and everything.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
No, you're just a butt-pirate. You've got the flag and everything.

Hit a raw nerve, did I? That's one point for me. Don't forget to keep score. ;) :D

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Hit a raw nerve, did I? That's one point for me. Don't forget to keep score. ;) :D


ugh :rolleyes: I knew you would say that. I just didn't want you to have the last word.