Savatage's "Hall Of The Mountain King"

[rustoffa]

This thing sounds good on vinyl. It probably sounds good on a Realistic pocket tape recorder as well.

24 Hrs Ago and the title track are just plain feel-good heavy metal diddys.

DUNDT-DUNDT-DUNDT-DA-DUNDT...

[Panamark]

Its great !!

One of the best Savatage albums for sure !!

[bueno bob]

One of their better albums, for certain. Definately a better step than 1986's "Fight for the Rock". "Fight" introduced Johnny Lee Middleton on bass, but oh lord...Stephen Machat and Rick Smith really butchered up the production on that, and while there was some decent riffs back and forth, "Fight for the Rock" wasn't even recognizable as Savatage.

"Hall of the Mountain King" got them back on track though...more over than just the title track and "24 Hours Ago", there was a lot of other great material on the album: "Strange Wings" (which had Ray Gillen doing some backup vocals), "Legions", "White Witch", "The Price You Pay"...up to that point, except for "Sirens" (their debut), HOTMK was probably Savatage's strongest effort and the last TRUE metal album they ever made.

1989 saw them adding Chris Caffery on second guitar and the keyboards became more prominent - Savatage started taking on the more progressive minded flair with that years "Gutter Ballet", but it was a strong album for sure; easily one of their most memorable.

HOTMK was really Savatage's last hurrah as a straight metal act, though.

ooooh, look at my pretty T shirt I'm wearing!

[bueno bob]

The problem that I ran into with Savatage was this:

When Criss Oliva was killed by a drunk driver in 1993, I thought back then that they should have called it a day. They didn't, though, and they got Alex Skolnik (ex Testament and a big Criss O./Savatage fan) to fill in and do the "Handful of Rain" album with him (which, as I remember, was originally going to be titled "Stare Into the Sun"). HoR was a GENIUS album...very much like what would have been had Criss survived. A fitting tribute to say the least - and to my mind, the last REAL Savatage album that has ever been recorded, even if it wasn't actually Savatage per se.

Of course, Alex left after the tour was over, and Jon Oliva decided to replace him with a returning Chris Caffery (which was good news) and...the dreaded Al Pitrelli, who had never even heard of the band prior to getting the gig (for whatever reason, he'd lost the Widowmaker thing with Dee Snider, so he was, as he put it, "In need of a paycheck"....Savatage was a good a band as any other, apparently).

By this point, of course, Paul O'Neill (producer) had almost completely taken over the band and was writing all the lyrics, doing the production, writing the stories for the concept albums, et al. I guess, at some point, Jon and Paul sat down and said "Let's try to re-create the "Streets" album from here on out", and essentially that's all they've managed to do since. The stories get more and more vague, and Savatage albums have, since 1995's "Dead Winter Dead", been a cookie cutter of the one before it, just slightly different...even a lot of the vocalizations are close to being the same...

"Poets and Madmen" was a high point, though. Zak Stevens had quit the band (he said to go be a full-time father - personally, I think he was tired of all the bullshit, and I don't blame him). Al Pitrelli had quit to go do the Megadeth thing, and that left Savatage back at a 4 piece - Jon (doing keyboards and lead vocals again), Caffery, Middleton and drummer Jeff Plate. "Poets and Madmen", while still a stupid story album, was musically stronger than anything since HoR and, with Jon back at the mic, it actually SOUNDED like Savatage again...more or less...it still had that "Streets Revisisted" element to it, but it was a step in the old era Savatage sound, so I was all up on it.

They hired a new vocalist, Damond Jiniya, to tour with them in 2001, and added 2nd guitarist Jack Frost which put Chris "Biff" Caffery into the role of lead guitarist. After their HUGE WORLD TOUR(c) (which consists of about 12 stops on the east coast, and then extensive gigs across Europe and South America - which is what Savatage considers a world tour and has since 1992), they announced that Damond and Jack were new FULL TIME MEMBERS.

But - Megadeth splits up and guess who needs work? Jack Frost was promptly shown the door by Paul and Jon and Al was back. The question I was left with was, 'WHY?'. Jack was more than an ample guitarist, apparently; he was actually A FAN OF THE BAND and FAMILIAR with them...but, you know, Al's got that potential to put "Featuring EX MEGADETH guitarist Al Pitrelli!" sticker on the front of albums, I guess... :rolleyes:

That was back in, what, 2001 or early 2002? And what have we heard from Savatage since?

NOTHING.

I feel badly for Damond Jiniya - what fucking use is it to be lead singer for a signed band if they don't ever do anything? Chris Caffery plays with all his friends on their albums and records his EXTREMELY BAD solo efforts (they're so fucking horrible I'm amazed he didn't have to pay the label to release it...Jesus, it's some of the worst sounding GARBAGE I've ever heard, bar none)...Jon Oliva's off doing his solo thing (which really isn't that good)...and apparently everybody else either gets to do the Trans-Siberian Orchestra tours (and I'm so fucking sick of Trans-Siberian Orchestra I'm ready to puke...enough's enough with that Christmas shit...the last two albums from TSO have been fucking atrocious and almost completely unlistenable to me), or just sit around with their thumbs up their ass until Jon Oliva decides what he wants to do with Savatage.

It's a shitty way to treat your fanbase. Year after year those assholes made promises galore about REAL U.S. touring and year after year they cancelled out on it, and the whole attitude is that "If you wanna see Savatage, you'd better be prepared to travel 2000+ miles to do it if you live anywhere west of Chicago"...and for the east coast fans on their message boards, their attitude is that, if you can't do this, you're "Obviously not a Savatage fan".

News flash - I was one of the ORIGINAL POSTERS at their message boards, probably one of the first 10 people who actually signed up. I followed that band DAY AND NIGHT since 1987...and, over the years, I had brought at least 100 new fans, who BOUGHT RECORDS, to their base. I called MTV and requested their videos - I called the radio stations to get their songs played (and had a hand in getting as many rotations of "Edge of Thorns" out on the radio here in Oregon as it got)...joined their fucked up fan clubs and bought their merchandise (they've never had a fan club worth a shit - their first fan club I joined, all I got for my time, effort and money was a letter from Steve Wacholz's mother thanking me for my support before it closed down...the second one existed for about 3 months before it too went tits up, and I ordered upwards of $250 worth of merchandise that I still to this day have never received).

I don't know what Savatage expects out of it's fans, but apparently it's too fucking much. Jon Oliva, Paul O'Neill and present company (whoever's in Savatage at this point) can suck my dick, because I'm done giving them ANYTHING whatsoever. Any music they release from here on out, I will GLADLY STEAL from file swapping sites, because I refuse to drop another dime in their direction, not after all the money they owe me from that fan club.

BUT -

That being said...Savatage 1983-1994 remains, and always WILL remain, one of the best things that has ever happened to me, and one of the best groups of musicians ever assembled. I will always love them and cherish the memories, but the people involved in "Savatage" anymore - AREN'T.

Guess it's true...you can only fuck over your fans for so long before they eventually get tired of it.

I've spoken with other members on their message boards - RESPECTED members, and I'm not alone in how I feel, it's just that a lot of them don't have the balls to say anything.

I do.

Anyway, Sava-History 101 for ya.

[Panamark]

But do you like Hall of the Mountain King, BB ? :)

[Anonymous]

Ah... that sure explains a lot, Bob. Especially your banning. :D

You really ARE mad at Jon Oliva. Then again, who wouldn't be with all that shit? I'm a fan of Savatage myself. I love HOTMK. Poets and Madmen is also a grate album in my opinion.

Cheers! :bottle:

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by Panamark
But do you like Hall of the Mountain King, BB ? :)

But of course! :D

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by Imapus Sylicker
Ah... that sure explains a lot, Bob. Especially your banning. :D

You really ARE mad at Jon Oliva. Then again, who wouldn't be with all that shit? I'm a fan of Savatage myself. I love HOTMK. Poets and Madmen is also a grate album in my opinion.

Cheers! :bottle:

Well, there's also the fact that I raised $2000.00 for them to come play, had raised money for EVERYTHING they would need just to get out here and do it...and they STILL refused, and me and the group of people I raised the money with never got our deposits back, not for the venue, transportation fees, lodging or food...

Yeah, the whole thing kinda pissed me off - we did all that and all Savatage Inc. could do was rave about how great their fans were in NYC and Florida and how many "great things" those east coast fans did for them...we never even got an official nod from Savatage Inc., and it wasn't like they were actually doing anything at the time anyway - fuck, all they did was complain that playing in the U.S. wasn't productive cost-wise...so we eliminate that problem for them and they STILL won't play? OR give us some kind of recognition for doing everything we did?

That's just sheer laziness and it was a slap in our collective faces.

So we all said "Fuck that" and we quit being Savatage fans right then and there, all 20 of us.

[rustoffa]

Originally posted by bueno bob
Well, there's also the fact that I raised $2000.00 for them to come play, had raised money for EVERYTHING they would need just to get out here and do it...and they STILL refused, and me and the group of people I raised the money with never got our deposits back, not for the venue, transportation fees, lodging or food...

Yeah, the whole thing kinda pissed me off - we did all that and all Savatage Inc. could do was rave about how great their fans were in NYC and Florida and how many "great things" those east coast fans did for them...we never even got an official nod from Savatage Inc., and it wasn't like they were actually doing anything at the time anyway - fuck, all they did was complain that playing in the U.S. wasn't productive cost-wise...so we eliminate that problem for them and they STILL won't play? OR give us some kind of recognition for doing everything we did?

That's just sheer laziness and it was a slap in our collective faces.

So we all said "Fuck that" and we quit being Savatage fans right then and there, all 20 of us.

Shit, didn't mean to open old wounds man. I was never a huge fan, but that record is underrated IMO. I was actually flipping through the stax and noticed some DICKWEED filed that record in the MERCYFUL FATE section....needless to say, I broke it out and forgot about overrated falsetto devil worshipers.
:D

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by rustoffa
Shit, didn't mean to open old wounds man. I was never a huge fan, but that record is underrated IMO. I was actually flipping through the stax and noticed some DICKWEED filed that record in the MERCYFUL FATE section....needless to say, I broke it out and forgot about overrated falsetto devil worshipers.
:D

" OOOOOOOOH, SATAN, HEAR MY CALL...OOOOH, I'M EVIL, I'M ABOUT TO GET HIGH PITCHED FOR YOUR EVIL MAJESTY....AW HUHUHUHUHUHUHUH... "

[bueno bob]

Good ole King Diamond....BWAHAHAHAHA :D

[bueno bob]

King Diamond actually sounds a lot like Salacious Crumb, now that I think about it....

[bueno bob]

You be the judge....

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by rustoffa
Shit, didn't mean to open old wounds man. I was never a huge fan, but that record is underrated IMO. I was actually flipping through the stax and noticed some DICKWEED filed that record in the MERCYFUL FATE section....needless to say, I broke it out and forgot about overrated falsetto devil worshipers.
:D

:)

Ancient history, man...still got pretty strong feelings about those guys, but now it's both pro AND con... :) All peaceful, thats me!

[Anonymous]

Originally posted by bueno bob
Well, there's also the fact that I raised $2000.00 for them to come play, had raised money for EVERYTHING they would need just to get out here and do it...and they STILL refused, and me and the group of people I raised the money with never got our deposits back, not for the venue, transportation fees, lodging or food...

Yeah, the whole thing kinda pissed me off - we did all that and all Savatage Inc. could do was rave about how great their fans were in NYC and Florida and how many "great things" those east coast fans did for them...we never even got an official nod from Savatage Inc., and it wasn't like they were actually doing anything at the time anyway - fuck, all they did was complain that playing in the U.S. wasn't productive cost-wise...so we eliminate that problem for them and they STILL won't play? OR give us some kind of recognition for doing everything we did?

That's just sheer laziness and it was a slap in our collective faces.

So we all said "Fuck that" and we quit being Savatage fans right then and there, all 20 of us.

Sheet... that's quite a story, Bob. No wonder you're so mad at those guys. I never thought they were like that. And yes, I'm taking the word of a guy I met in the internet. What a crazy fucked up world, huh? :D

Cheers! :bottle:

[Anonymous]

Originally posted by rustoffa
needless to say, I broke it out and forgot about overrated falsetto devil worshipers.
:D

Hey, watch it Stoff... ;) Don't badmouth the King, baby. King Diamond fookin' rules!

Cheers! :bottle:

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by Imapus Sylicker
Hey, watch it Stoff... ;) Don't badmouth the King, baby. King Diamond fookin' rules!

Cheers! :bottle:

But he DOES sound like Salicious Crumb... :)

Actually, they both "Hit it Big" about the same time, 1983...lmao...

[bueno bob]

When it comes to my Diamonds, I prefer Dave (of course) and Mercyful Fate...King's solo stuff I couldn't much find an ear for...