Is Howard Dean's Raised Voice Raising Cash? [Archive]

Warham

06-06-2005, 03:37 PM

Washington Outlook
Edited by Lee Walczak

Howard Dean's Raised Voice Isn't Raising Cash

One hundred days into his tenure as the high-energy, higher-decibel chairman of the Democratic Party, Howard Dean is in trouble with party moneybags. The former Vermont governor seems to be doing a better job flaying the Republicans than bridging the cash chasm between the parties. Given Dean's 2004 run as a populist crusader, moderates were never wild about his takeover of the Democratic National Committee. So some big donors are sitting on their wallets.

Dean wowed the faithful in '04 with his Web-based fund-raising magic. But major business donors still count, and in his new role as party honcho, the feisty doctor seems to be struggling to connect. After achieving money parity with the GOP in 2004, Democrats have fallen far behind. According to the Federal Election Commission, the DNC raised $14.1 million in the first quarter of 2005, vs. the Republican National Committee's $32.3 million. Dean drew about 20,000 new donors, while his rivals picked up 68,200. The bottom line: Republicans have $26.2 million in the bank vs. $7.2 million for the Dems.

Why the yawning gap? For starters, Dean is not a natural fit for the "stroke and joke" style that traditional party chiefs use to extract cash from well-heeled contributors. "It appears that the chairman has come to the conclusion that he doesn't need major donors," sniffs one fat cat. "He hasn't made any effort to reach out."

Personality factors aside, Dean's business-bashing '04 campaign makes him a hard sell in corporate circles. "There's a wait-and-see attitude from business and major contributors," says Nathan Landow, a Maryland developer and big-time donor. "This guy has some work to do to get the comfort level up." William W. Batoff, a Philadelphia real estate developer and longtime Democratic fund-raiser who backed President Bush in 2000 and 2004, is less diplomatic. "Howard Dean is the wrong person to be chair," says Batoff, who claims he will help fund the Dems' congressional efforts but will boycott the national committee while Dean reigns.

"Kind of a Dustpan"
Recent evidence of big-donor discomfort: A DNC event scheduled for May 25 at Manhattan's cavernous Jacob K. Javits Convention Center was scaled back to a smaller venue at the Essex House hotel. Bridget Siegel, the DNC's New York finance chair, says the event was moved because the new room "just worked better."

According to his defenders, Dean is doing just fine in the money wars. Internet and direct-mail appeals have started pulling in $1 million a week, says party spokeswoman Karen Finney, and the chairman "is pleased overall with [the pace of] fund-raising." Former DNC Chair Steve Grossman, a close ally, says Dean "is becoming more comfortable with [asking for money] by the day." Dean may yet find ways to build bridges to reluctant donors, but few think he'll ever be another Terry McAuliffe, the human money machine whom he replaced. "McAuliffe was like a vacuum cleaner," says Rutgers University political scientist Ross K. Baker. "Dean is kind of a dustpan."

He may be no McAuliffe, but Dean defenders note that his predecessor's golden cash register was accompanied by stinging setbacks at the polls. The new boss represents the grassroots' desire to take the fight to the Republicans. That he's doing. Still, unless Dean narrows the huge cash disparity, he may not be able to build the political dynamo he promised.

By Eamon Javers and Richard S. Dunham

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_23/c3936057_mz013.htm

FORD

06-08-2005, 03:09 PM

BusinessWeek, Fox News made baseless claim that Dean is poor fund-raiser

BusinessWeek reporters Eamon Javers and Richard Dunham baselessly asserted in a June 6 article that Democratic National Committee (DNC) chairman Howard Dean is not an effective fund-raiser, a claim that Fox News hosts Brit Hume and John Gibson echoed. But in making this claim, Javers and Dunham simply compared DNC fund-raising with money raised this year by the Republican National Committee (RNC), rather than comparing fund-raising by the Dean-led DNC this year with that of the DNC in 2003, the most recent election off-year.

Javers and Dunham began their analysis noting that "[a]fter achieving money parity with the GOP in 2004, Democrats have fallen far behind." But this creates a flawed standard to evaluate Dean's success, as 2004 was the first time in history that Democrats had achieved such a feat. Noting that the DNC raised $14.1 million in the first quarter of 2005 compared to $32.3 million by the RNC, they concluded that "Dean may yet find ways to build bridges to reluctant donors, but few think he'll ever be another [preceding DNC chair] Terry McAuliffe, the human money machine whom he replaced."

But a comparison of Dean's first three months as chairman shows that he has actually out-raised his predecessor during the same period in 2003. Dean raised $14.8 million between February and April (the latest data available), versus $8.5 million during that period in 2003, the previous non-election year. Additionally, the DNC has raised more in comparison to the RNC over the past three months than it did during 2003. The RNC raised $32.4 million between February and April, about 2.2 times the rate of the Democrats. Over the same period in 2003 the RNC raised $25.7 million, more than three times the rate of the DNC. Media Matters is citing statistics from February through April, rather than the first-quarter statistics that BusinessWeek used, because Dean did not assume leadership of the DNC until February 12.

Javers and Dunham also noted the "bottom line" that Republicans had $26.2 million in the bank vs. $7.2 million for the Democrats at the end of the first quarter this year, failing to note that this is nearly double the $3.9 million the DNC had on hand at the end of the first quarter in 2003.

The BusinessWeek article was cited by host Brit Hume in the "Political Grapevine" segment of the June 2 edition of Fox News' Special Report with Brit Hume and by host John Gibson on Fox News' The Big Story with John Gibson as part of a June 2 interview with Democratic strategist Mary Anne Marsh and Republican strategist Brad Blakeman.

— J.W.

Posted to the web on Friday June 3, 2005 at 7:06 PM EST

Copyright © 2004-2005 Media Matters for America. All rights reserved.

LadyTudor2711

06-08-2005, 08:46 PM

Howard Dean is a loose cannon and seems to feel that he can say what he wishes and there are no consequences.

I loved it when he doomed himself with that ridicuous rant during the election. He could never be president. He may be the spokesman, but he needs a muzzle.

LT

FORD

06-08-2005, 09:10 PM

Originally posted by LadyTudor2711
Howard Dean is a loose cannon and seems to feel that he can say what he wishes and there are no consequences.

I loved it when he doomed himself with that ridicuous rant during the election. He could never be president. He may be the spokesman, but he needs a muzzle.

LT

Why does he need a muzzle?

As a lifelong Democrat, I'm sick of pussies like Dukakis and Kerry and McAulliffe who think appeasing these neocon fascists will get them votes.

I'm even sicker of sellouts like Biden, Richardson, Hillary and the rest of the DLC who openly endorse corporatism and the PNAC global war agenda.

Howard Dean tells it like it is. He won't pretend that "Bush is a good man who wants the best for this country" - because he ISN'T.

Did Bush or Cheney ever work in their lives? NO

Is the Republican agenda centered around rich white people who claim to be "Christians"? Undeniably YES.

What has Dean said that was not accurate?

These people tore up Jimmy Carter because he couldn't clean up Nixon's mess in 4 years. Then they harassed Bill Clinton over a BLOW JOB.

Clearly, THEY do not play nice. Why the Hell should we? Fact is that there is a criminal regime destroying everything that liberals AND genuine conservatives value about this country, and if we don't speakup about it, and do something about it, there will soon be no country to save, because the damage will be irreversible.

Yes Howard Dean speaks for me, and he speaks for what WAS good about America. And hopefully will be again.

Warham

06-08-2005, 10:14 PM

So you believe blacks work in hotels too?

Dean knows what he's talking about when it comes to minorities.

Vermont is #50 I believe in the number of blacks per square mile of any state in the Union.

diamondD

06-08-2005, 10:55 PM

FORD apparantly isn't sick of losing elections and is looking for more reasons to believe the fringe left is the center of America and can win elections by pandering strictly to them.

DrMaddVibe

06-09-2005, 07:24 PM

Originally posted by FORD Yes Howard Dean speaks for me, and he speaks for what WAS good about America. And hopefully will be again.

He speaks for you? You're lock step with the minority issues, the confederate flag issues, the homosexual issues, and the fact that he a dangerous loudmouth in desperate need of medications?

Don't know how to break it to you....Dean IS a PUSSY!

FORD

06-09-2005, 07:37 PM

Ok, so now those who stand up to their enemies are "pussies" and those who appease fascists are to be admired?

Which bizzaro world are you from?

Stallion

06-09-2005, 08:48 PM

Originally posted by FORD
Ok, so now those who stand up to their enemies are "pussies" and those who appease fascists are to be admired?

Which bizzaro world are you from?

So....you're sick of appeasers and pussies like Dukakis and Kerry, so your answer is a loose lipped freak show that will turn off the swing voters?

HUH?

Look...if you want your party in power again someday Ford, someone in your party is going to have to win back the Reagan Dems....I dont think Dean will get the job done running down christians. All he's doing is pissing off the center and appealing to the far left wing.

FORD

06-09-2005, 09:00 PM

It's a simple as this, Gelding...

If the so called "10% in the middle" doesn't have the mental capacity to know the difference between how well this country was doing in the 1990's and how poorly we are doing now, and how a regime of lying treasonous criminals are to blame for that, then why should we waste time on them?

I would rather win back the 50% who don't vote at all anymore, because they believe NEITHER party represents the people. And while that is certainly true of the Republicans, it has also sadly been the case with the corporatist/neocon sympathy wing, led by the DLC which has hijacked the Democratic party.

Howard Dean is doing just fine on fundraising. In fact the numbers this week should be even better :D What he is NOT doing is whoring himself to the corporations to get that money, but taking his case to the PEOPLE.

Isn't that the way it should be done?

Nickdfresh

06-09-2005, 09:05 PM

This is starting to turn into the fucking HOWARD DEAN forum...

And it's sort of gay I might add. I think FIVE FUCKING DEAN THREADS ON THE FRONT PAGE IS ENOUGH!

LoungeMachine

06-09-2005, 09:09 PM

Originally posted by diamondD
FORD apparantly isn't sick of losing elections and is looking for more reasons to believe the fringe left is the center of America and can win elections by pandering strictly to them.

In English next time, please:rolleyes:

Your spelling and sentence "construction" has placed you somewhere near the middle of "mildly retarded"

Gold Star for you !!!

Welcome to the Republican Party. Grab a crayon, you have work to do.

LoungeMachine

06-09-2005, 09:13 PM

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
This is starting to turn into the fucking HOWARD DEAN forum...

And it's sort of gay I might add. I think FIVE FUCKING DEAN THREADS ON THE FRONT PAGE IS ENOUGH!

Welcome to FORD country, Nicky:D

I do admire his passion though.

We progressives could use more of it.:cool:

BigBadBrian

06-09-2005, 10:03 PM

Originally posted by Nickdfresh

And it's sort of gay I might add. I think FIVE FUCKING DEAN THREADS ON THE FRONT PAGE IS ENOUGH!

No, I think not. Not as long as Howie keeps shooting his mouth off. FORD sure as hell doesn't put a limit on the Bush threads now does he?

Quit your whinin'. That's all you Libs ever do. Don't you ever get out of bed in the morning and see something positive about the world? Let me guess...not since November of 2000, huh? :D

Warham

06-09-2005, 10:24 PM

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
This is starting to turn into the fucking HOWARD DEAN forum...

And it's sort of gay I might add. I think FIVE FUCKING DEAN THREADS ON THE FRONT PAGE IS ENOUGH!

Never stopped you guys from posting ten or more threads on George Bush at one time.

diamondD

06-10-2005, 07:28 AM

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
In English next time, please:rolleyes:

Your spelling and sentence "construction" has placed you somewhere near the middle of "mildly retarded"

Gold Star for you !!!

Welcome to the Republican Party. Grab a crayon, you have work to do.

I'm an independent. When you grow up and get out of grade school, maybe your reading comprehension will be improved.

Do you ever stop being a whiny bitch with nothing to say but insults?

Go running back to following Jesterstar around and telling everyone 100s of times how HE doesn't have a life. :rolleyes:

Stallion

06-10-2005, 08:47 AM

Originally posted by FORD
It's a simple as this, Gelding...

If the so called "10% in the middle" doesn't have the mental capacity to know the difference between how well this country was doing in the 1990's and how poorly we are doing now, and how a regime of lying treasonous criminals are to blame for that, then why should we waste time on them?

I would rather win back the 50% who don't vote at all anymore, because they believe NEITHER party represents the people. And while that is certainly true of the Republicans, it has also sadly been the case with the corporatist/neocon sympathy wing, led by the DLC which has hijacked the Democratic party.

Howard Dean is doing just fine on fundraising. In fact the numbers this week should be even better :D What he is NOT doing is whoring himself to the corporations to get that money, but taking his case to the PEOPLE.

Isn't that the way it should be done?

I think it would be safe to say that a large number of those who didn’t vote in the last election are Christian. It would also be safe to say that they wouldn’t like to have their faith be made a mockery of by Howie Dean.
And it’s not just religious issues, its racial issues and number of other stupid things the guy has said. Dean cannot control himself.

Again, all he's doing is getting the far left in a lather, and pissing everyone else off.

I’m not complaining you understand. I hope Howie continues the path he’s on…..

LoungeMachine

06-10-2005, 10:31 AM

Originally posted by diamondD
I'm an independent. When you grow up and get out of grade school, maybe your reading comprehension will be improved.

Try spell check and puncuation first.

Don't fear them.

And you're about as "independent" as Sean Hannity:rolleyes:

Grade school? How will I ever recover from that one?

LoungeMachine

06-10-2005, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by diamondD
I'm an independent. When you grow up and get out of grade school, maybe your reading comprehension will be improved.

By the way, fuckstump....

it's spelled Caucasian :rolleyes:

Nickdfresh

06-10-2005, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
No, I think not. Not as long as Howie keeps shooting his mouth off. FORD sure as hell doesn't put a limit on the Bush threads now does he?

Quit your whinin'. That's all you Libs ever do. Don't you ever get out of bed in the morning and see something positive about the world? Let me guess...not since November of 2000, huh? :D

DEAN 'shooting his mouth off' is a non-issue that's invented by your little clearing house right-wing sites you guys must love to visit. You only post them here because you love to piss off, or show-up FORD, that's not what this forum is about. I thought it was about discussion. I know it used to be. And BigBLUNDER, you're the king of whining...If you're not crying and starting threads about FORD's alleged biases (after you bait him like a little school girl trying to get her teacher in trouble), you're tearing up over "blatant personal attacks" laid on you by LOUNGE or moi.

Originally posted by Warham
Never stopped you guys from posting ten or more threads on George Bush at one time.

Those were issue related, DEAN has nothing to do with the shitty economy, the war gone sour, and the continual erosion of our civil liberties. Anyways, BUSH is the CEO of the country, DEAN is just the chair of the opposition. His comments really mean nothing, but he must be doing something right if he's getting this much attention from you guys.

LoungeMachine

06-10-2005, 10:54 AM

LoungeMachine

06-10-2005, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by Nickdfresh

DEAN has nothing to do with the shitty economy, the war gone sour, and the continual erosion of our civil liberties. Anyways, BUSH is the CEO of the country, DEAN is just the chair of the opposition. His comments really mean nothing, but he must be doing something right if he's getting this much attention from you guys.

It's a nice diversion from the REALITY that this administration has managed to clusterfuck EVERYTHING they put their greedy little hands on.

We had the WORLD behind us after 9/11.

There IS NO "homeland security"

There IS NO "war on terror"

There IS NO "act" that signifies "patriotism"

There ARE however, fake journalists, planted stories, and trampling of civil rights.

Warham

06-10-2005, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by Nickdfresh

Those were issue related, DEAN has nothing to do with the shitty economy, the war gone sour, and the continual erosion of our civil liberties. Anyways, BUSH is the CEO of the country, DEAN is just the chair of the opposition. His comments really mean nothing, but he must be doing something right if he's getting this much attention from you guys. [/B]

The economy isn't shitty. Alan Greenspan said it was doing pretty well...or is he a BCE operative?

The fact is, Dean is getting attention from liberals like Nanci Pelosi, Joe Biden and John Edwards. We are just here to pass the info on and comment on it.

You guys like to make fun of Bush's ineloquent speech. Well, we can make fun of Howie's inane comments about 'white Christians'.

Warham

06-10-2005, 02:40 PM

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
It's a nice diversion from the REALITY that this administration has managed to clusterfuck EVERYTHING they put their greedy little hands on.

We had the WORLD behind us after 9/11.

There IS NO "homeland security"

There IS NO "war on terror"

There IS NO "act" that signifies "patriotism"

There ARE however, fake journalists, planted stories, and trampling of civil rights.

Fake journalists? Dan Rather comes to mind.

LoungeMachine

06-10-2005, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by Warham
Fake journalists? Dan Rather comes to mind.

Really?

Any Others "come to mind" ???????

Armstrong Williams or Jimmy/Jeff Guckert/Gannon

you're unbelievable:rolleyes:

Let me guess.....you're an "independent" too:rolleyes:

FORD

06-10-2005, 02:51 PM

Originally posted by Warham
The economy isn't shitty. Alan Greenspan said it was doing pretty well...or is he a BCE operative?

The fact is, Dean is getting attention from liberals like Nanci Pelosi, Joe Biden and John Edwards. We are just here to pass the info on and comment on it.

You guys like to make fun of Bush's ineloquent speech. Well, we can make fun of Howie's inane comments about 'white Christians'.

Please don't refer to Joe Biden or Nancy Pelosi as "liberals" again, as they are neo-conservative fascists. And Edwards is a right leaning moderate even on his best days.

Warham

06-10-2005, 03:05 PM

Nancy Pelosi is 100% grade A liberal. :D

Satan

06-10-2005, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by Warham
Nancy Pelosi is 100% grade A liberal. :D

And I lead the church choir every Sunday.

Warham

06-10-2005, 04:02 PM

Lucifer was probably a really good singer at one time. :D

diamondD

06-10-2005, 06:06 PM

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Try spell check and puncuation first.

Don't fear them.

And you're about as "independent" as Sean Hannity:rolleyes:

Grade school? How will I ever recover from that one?

I have voted for Republicans and Democrats in the same election many times. Just because the Democrats have become overrun with liberal whiny bitches doesn't mean I can't see their point of view on some things.

All you got to complain about is some grammar and punctuation errors? Your life must really suck to let it get you so worked up about it.

diamondD

06-10-2005, 06:13 PM

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
DEAN 'shooting his mouth off' is a non-issue that's invented by your little clearing house right-wing sites you guys must love to visit. You only post them here because you love to piss off, or show-up FORD, that's not what this forum is about. I thought it was about discussion. I know it used to be. And BigBLUNDER, you're the king of whining...If you're not crying and starting threads about FORD's alleged biases (after you bait him like a little school girl trying to get her teacher in trouble), you're tearing up over "blatant personal attacks" laid on you by LOUNGE or moi.

Those were issue related, DEAN has nothing to do with the shitty economy, the war gone sour, and the continual erosion of our civil liberties. Anyways, BUSH is the CEO of the country, DEAN is just the chair of the opposition. His comments really mean nothing, but he must be doing something right if he's getting this much attention from you guys.

Non issue? He's the lightning rod of the DNC and he's all over the news with these comments. (Not just FOX before you even start) FORD posts Dean threads himself to promote him, so saying BBB shouldn't be posting them either is kinda hypocritical.

If FORD wants to promote Dean as much as he does, Dean's mistakes can't be dismissed as irrelevant. He's pissing some Democrats off as well, which can't be good for the party as a whole. Moving to the hard left is going to be a huge disaster for the Democrats. All he's doing is setting up Hillary to come in and "save the party".

Warham

06-10-2005, 06:18 PM

Let's just sweep Dean's comments under the rug, shall we?

He's not important...I mean, he's just the DNC Chair, a meaningless position, right?

diamondD

06-10-2005, 06:23 PM

Of course, threads about a girl in Austrailia going to jail for pot in Indonesia are completely relevant to American politics.

Guitar Shark

06-10-2005, 06:26 PM

Originally posted by Warham
Let's just sweep Dean's comments under the rug, shall we?

He's not important...I mean, he's just the DNC Chair, a meaningless position, right?

Historically it's been pretty meaningless. I mean, to this day I have no idea what former DNC chair Terry McAuliffe looks like, let alone his background.

Dean is taking this to a whole new level. Some like it, but most do not.

Nickdfresh

06-10-2005, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by diamondD
Non issue? He's the lightning rod of the DNC and he's all over the news with these comments. (Not just FOX before you even start) FORD posts Dean threads himself to promote him, so saying BBB shouldn't be posting them either is kinda hypocritical.

Okay, "non issue" was a poor choice of words on my part. I heard it on NPR as a matter of fact and will provide the link when it comes up.

But I NEVER SAID BBB shouldn't post them, just that we don't need a fucking new thread on every different take (BIDEON, EDWARDS...) on what is essentially the same story. Put them all in the same thread and sticky it, I don't care. I never meant the story isn't there, just that we don't need a different thread for every article on it which is meant solely to piss off FORD and to hence expose his "Liberal bias" when he closes them.

If FORD wants to promote Dean as much as he does, Dean's mistakes can't be dismissed as irrelevant. He's pissing some Democrats off as well, which can't be good for the party as a whole. Moving to the hard left is going to be a huge disaster for the Democrats. All he's doing is setting up Hillary to come in and "save the party".

As I already stated, I have no problem with DEAN's mistakes being posted, just a new thread a day on what is essentially ONE ongoing story!

And actually, the DEMOCRATS are now universally rallying around him just because of all of this excitment over his comments and of some prominent DEM. leaders reactions to his statements

BTW, as an "Independent," shouldn't you be attacking Karl ROVE as well? Oh no, we would never criticize a Republocan't. :rolleyes:

Warham

06-10-2005, 06:54 PM

Karl Rove doesn't make idiotic statements out in public. Big difference.

And I thought you were a Republocan't, Nick? Let's just be up front and honest, and say you are a liberal. Speaking of which, why is it so hard for liberals to admit they are liberals? I remember John Kerry having a hard time admitting that last year. There must be some public perception about liberals...

Nickdfresh

06-10-2005, 07:00 PM

Originally posted by diamondD
Of course, threads about a girl in Austrailia going to jail for pot in Indonesia are completely relevant to American politics.

One fucking thread compared to five on the same topic?:rolleyes: Some of us lack your narcissistic, inward world view...

BTW, we have many AUSTRALIANS that are regular contributors to this board and this forum. I would pity the day it only becomes solely about BBB's partisan ramblings...

Nickdfresh

06-10-2005, 07:09 PM

Originally posted by Warham
Karl Rove doesn't make idiotic statements out in public. Big difference.

And I thought you were a Republocan't, Nick? Let's just be up front and honest, and say you are a liberal. Speaking of which, why is it so hard for liberals to admit they are liberals? I remember John Kerry having a hard time admitting that last year. There must be some public perception about liberals...

No, he just uses little front hate groups to defame his opponents:

From: http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/articles/2004/03/21/the_anatomy_of_a_smear_campaign/

It didn't take much research to turn up a seemingly innocuous fact about the McCains: John and his wife, Cindy, have an adopted daughter named Bridget. Cindy found Bridget at Mother Theresa's orphanage in Bangladesh, brought her to the United States for medical treatment, and the family ultimately adopted her. Bridget has dark skin.

Anonymous opponents used "push polling" to suggest that McCain's Bangladeshi born daughter was his own, illegitimate black child. In push polling, a voter gets a call, ostensibly from a polling company, asking which candidate the voter supports. In this case, if the "pollster" determined that the person was a McCain supporter, he made statements designed to create doubt about the senator.

Thus, the "pollsters" asked McCain supporters if they would be more or less likely to vote for McCain if they knew he had fathered an illegitimate child who was black. In the conservative, race-conscious South, that's not a minor charge. We had no idea who made the phone calls, who paid for them, or how many calls were made. Effective and anonymous: the perfect smear campaign.

LoungeMachine

06-10-2005, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by diamondD

All you got to complain about is some grammar and punctuation errors? Your life must really suck to let it get you so worked up about it.

Who's worked up?

Not me.:cool:

I just take those things into consideration when someone tries to tell me what's right or wrong.

I give you very little credit.

At least Warham and Brie are intelligent. You're just a fucking dolt.

:D

Guitar Shark

06-10-2005, 07:49 PM

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
I give you very little credit.

At least Warham and Brie are intelligent. You're just a fucking dolt.

:D

I've met diamondD before and he's far from a dolt...

He's on the wrong side of the fence politically but he's a cool dude. I heard he got a 1200 on his SAT's too. But I heard a rumor that he hired a little Japanese boy to take the test for him, so take it with a grain of salt.

Nickdfresh

06-10-2005, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by Guitar Shark
I've met diamondD before and he's far from a dolt...

He's on the wrong side of the fence politically but he's a cool dude. I heard he got a 1200 on his SAT's too. But I heard a rumor that he hired a little Japanese boy to take the test for him, so take it with a grain of salt.

I'll second that opinion. DIAMONDD is no dolt, right-wing asshole maybe,:D but an intelligent one nonetheless. The FORCE is strong in this one...

superdave

06-10-2005, 08:42 PM

Howard Dean is the dumbest Democrat I have ever seen, and maybe will ever see, which is hard to fathom coming out of my mouth, seeing my disdain for Bill Clinton...

FORD

06-10-2005, 08:45 PM

The new alias isn't fooling anybody Wayne. Go suck some athlete's foot.

rustoffa

06-10-2005, 09:15 PM

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Who's worked up?

Not me.:cool:

I just take those things into consideration when someone tries to tell me what's right or wrong.

I give you very little credit.

At least Warham and Brie are intelligent. You're just a fucking dolt.

:D

As per the norm, Lounge nails it. It's all about the source's credibility.

Take myself for example. I had a thread CLOSED today. The thought of cuntplaining in Feedback never crossed my mind. I considered the source's credibility, forgot about it until just now, and watched trained seals on the local news sensationalize a tropical depression.

It's a fucking storm dipshits. It's tropically depressing me. The waves in Pensacola look like a Fernandina Beach beachbreak. Roll the plywood purchasing footage and go die.

Nickdfresh

06-10-2005, 09:16 PM

Dean Cheers Rank-and-File Democrats

Listen to this story (http://www.npr.org/dmg/dmg.php?prgCode=ATC&showDate=10-Jun-2005&segNum=15&mediaPref=WM&getUnderwriting=1)... by Mara Liasson

All Things Considered, June 10, 2005 · Howard Dean, the chairman of the Democratic Party, has once again made news. And, once again, it's because of something he has said. His colorful description of Republicans may have caused some Democratic leaders to wince. But party support outside of Washington, D.C., remains strong.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4698423

LoungeMachine

06-10-2005, 09:25 PM

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I'll second that opinion. DIAMONDD is no dolt, right-wing asshole maybe,:D but an intelligent one nonetheless. The FORCE is strong in this one...

I respect my man Nick, and my favorite counselor GS a great deal, and will take into consideration their views.

That being said, anyone who can't spell Caucasian correctly on their AV, or posts at a JizzySTOOL level will remain a dolt in my book until proven otherwise.

I can take the flames in here, and respect even the most right wing opinions [warpig, brie, et al ] but diamondDOLT telling me to finish grade school while butchering his native tongue is too much.:rolleyes:

Back to topic:

Howard Dean is the DNC Chair. He's a mouthpiece / fundraiser

He's doing his job well.

BUT HE DOESN'T DICTATE FOREIGN POLICY OR THE DOMESTIC AGENDA FOR THIS ADMINISTRATION

For that, the BLAME falls squarely on the "Commander in Thief"

We now return you to your regularly scheduled flamefest:cool:

superdave

06-10-2005, 09:28 PM

Gephardt would have been a better DNC chair, at least I trust him

FORD

06-10-2005, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by rustoffa
As per the norm, Lounge nails it. It's all about the source's credibility.

Take myself for example. I had a thread CLOSED today. The thought of cuntplaining in Feedback never crossed my mind. I considered the source's credibility, forgot about it until just now, and watched trained seals on the local news sensationalize a tropical depression.

It's a fucking storm dipshits. It's tropically depressing me. The waves in Pensacola look like a Fernandina Beach beachbreak. Roll the plywood purchasing footage and go die.

You mean you actually HAD a source for that shit? I thought you just made it up as a satire on the 666 other Dean threads. :D

rustoffa

06-10-2005, 09:49 PM

Originally posted by FORD
You mean you actually HAD a source for that shit? I thought you just made it up as a satire on the 666 other Dean threads. :D

:D

diamondD

06-10-2005, 10:15 PM

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
One fucking thread compared to five on the same topic?:rolleyes: Some of us lack your narcissistic, inward world view...

BTW, we have many AUSTRALIANS that are regular contributors to this board and this forum. I would pity the day it only becomes solely about BBB's partisan ramblings...

I agree on the many threads about the same topic. But FORD's been doing it for years. I was just giving you a hard time about the non-issue part. :cool:

Warham

06-10-2005, 10:20 PM

Yeah, only BBB has partisan ramblings on this forum...

diamondD

06-10-2005, 10:23 PM

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Who's worked up?

Not me.:cool:

I just take those things into consideration when someone tries to tell me what's right or wrong.

I give you very little credit.

At least Warham and Brie are intelligent. You're just a fucking dolt.

:D

I didn't tell you anything about right or wrong. I've ignored you for weeks. You came in here after me.

I knew it was misspelled. I've just been too lazy to worry about fixing it until I change the picture again. Just haven't been in a hurry to do that. I'll get it corrected so that you can have a bitch fit over something else.

Nickdfresh

06-10-2005, 10:48 PM

Originally posted by Warham
Yeah, only BBB has partisan ramblings on this forum...

You know what I mean.

ASHTALIA posted an article about an Australian Navy helicopter crash, and he sort of got flamed for it! I thought it was bullshit. This is an international forum. Based in AMERICA, but read around the world....

LoungeMachine

06-11-2005, 12:27 AM

Originally posted by diamondD
I didn't tell you anything about right or wrong. I've ignored you for weeks. You came in here after me.

I knew it was misspelled. I've just been too lazy to worry about fixing it until I change the picture again. Just haven't been in a hurry to do that. I'll get it corrected so that you can have a bitch fit over something else.

Huh?

I have no idea WTF you're rambling about.

Ignored? after?

Nevermind. Couldn't possibly care less.

Go back to that ignoring part. It was working fine.:cool:

LoungeMachine

06-11-2005, 12:36 AM

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
You know what I mean.

ASHTALIA posted an article about an Australian Navy helicopter crash, and he sort of got flamed for it! I thought it was bullshit. This is an international forum. Based in AMERICA, but read around the world....

I remember thinking the same thing when I saw that. Wish I'd said something then.

I firmly believe many of our current problems are a direct result of us as a country walking this earth as if we owned it. Dictating our will and beliefs on others, and taking what we want.

Problem with that is, there's always someone who comes along and shows you you aren't immortal.

Empires fall.

Usually right on the people.

We had the world behind us 100% after 9/11

And I'm not terribly proud of how this administration has represented us these last few years.

Warham can be ashamed of his president who got a blow job and lied about it.

I'll always be more ashamed of my president who led us into war, and lied about it.

Flame away, gentlemen:cool:

LoungeMachine

06-11-2005, 12:42 AM

Originally posted by Warham
Washington Outlook
Edited by Lee Walczak

Howard Dean's Raised Voice Isn't Raising Cash

One hundred days into his tenure as the high-energy, higher-decibel chairman of the Democratic Party, Howard Dean is in trouble

100 days?

Then it's still Terry McAuliffe's fault.

According to Warham's logic, no one is responsible even after something occurs 8 MONTHS into their tenure.

Just playing fair.:cool:

LoungeMachine

06-11-2005, 12:44 AM

Originally posted by Warham
Yeah, only BBB has partisan ramblings on this forum...

You don't give yourself enough credit;)

Warham

06-11-2005, 04:20 PM

Even if I can't judge Howard's performance based on your post, I can still judge him based on his comments.

academic punk

06-12-2005, 02:11 PM

here's the latest...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/06/11/dean.attacks.ap/index.html

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Democratic Party Chairman Howard Dean said Saturday that positive responses from key supporters have reinforced his determination to keep talking tough, even though some congressional Democrats have suggested he should tone down his rhetoric.

"People want us to fight," Dean told the national party's executive committee. "We are here to fight."

Addressing Iowa party activists later Saturday in Des Moines, he added: "We need to be blunt and clear about the things we're going to fight for. I'm tired of lying down in front of the Republican machine. We need to stand up for what we believe in."

"We can use some of your passion," Rep. Leonard Boswell, D-Iowa, told Dean at the Iowa fundraiser.

Over the past week, Dean described Republicans as "pretty much a white, Christian party" and said many in the GOP "never made an honest living."

Several Democratic lawmakers distanced themselves from their chairman. Republican officials called on him to apologize. After weathering the criticism, Dean forged ahead with the GOP scolding at the meeting of Democratic National Committee leaders.

Yet some Democrats say the former Vermont governor should not remain the center of attention.

"Privately, people have said they don't want Howard Dean to become the story because we have more important issues to talk about," said Donna Brazile, who managed Al Gore's presidential campaign in 2000.

"But publicly we will continue to give Howard Dean our strong support," she said.

One of Dean's predecessors at the DNC, Don Fowler said, "The controversy over this statement or that statement is a blip and only a blip." But Fowler complained about leading Democrats who aired their gripes last week. "Even if they don't like it, they should have enough sense not to make those comments," Fowler said.

At the session in a downtown hotel, Dean accused Republicans of trying to suppress the vote, selling access to the White House for lobbyists and basically being dishonest with the public.

"The reason the Republicans are in trouble is because there are so many cases where they say one thing and do something else," Dean said.

He said President Bush's education initiative, the "No Child Left Behind" program, cuts school spending and a clean environment plan, the "Clear Skies Initiative," permits more pollution.

A spokeswoman for the Republican National Committee said Dean would rather sling mud than discuss serious matters.

"Dean's inflammatory rhetoric makes it clear that Democrats have no vision and would rather pander to the maniacal fringe than talk about the important issues facing our country," Tracey Schmitt said.

On political fundraising, the DNC trails the Republican Party by more than 2-to-1 despite Dean's reputation as a potent fundraiser. The Democrats have raised almost $19 million so far this year.

Dean said he is bringing in $1 million weekly and that $100,000 was received, unsolicited, from online donors during a 24-hour period in the past week as the furor over his remarks grew.

Records show the DNC took in $13.8 million over the first three months of 2005, compared with $8.4 million during the same period in 2003, the last year without a federal election. Terry McAuliffe was party chairman then.

Dean has given more than $1 million from the DNC to state parties. He said the DNC plans to share some of the money Dean raises for the national party when he is in a state. Both of these moves are winning him support from state party leaders.

In his remarks, Dean made few references to the recent brouhaha.

But when a DNC member joked that the best way to get the chairman's attention was to "jump up and down," a grinning Dean fired back: "That's my job."

The crowd of Democratic activists burst into applause.

FORD

06-12-2005, 02:28 PM

Records show the DNC took in $13.8 million over the first three months of 2005, compared with $8.4 million during the same period in 2003, the last year without a federal election. Terry McAuliffe was party chairman then.

To put these numbers into further perspective, consider this.....

In January after an election year, with DNC chairmanship up for grabs, there was not a lot of fundraising being done at DNC headquarters.

Howard Dean officially became DNC chair on February 12, 2005. This means that the bulk of money raised by the DNC for the first quarter of 2005 came in between mid-February and the end of March. So in other words, Dean raised $13.8 million in half the time that it took McAulliffe to dig up $8.4 million. That's an increase of 60.8% in half the time.

I'd say Dean is doing great :cool:

BigBadBrian

06-12-2005, 03:23 PM

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
By the way, fuckstump....

it's spelled Caucasian :rolleyes:

That's pretty good for a high school drop-out. ;)

I'm glad to see you have a dictionary.

Probably the only worthwhile book you own.

:gulp:

BigBadBrian

06-12-2005, 03:26 PM

Originally posted by diamondD
I have voted for Republicans and Democrats in the same election many times. Just because the Democrats have become overrun with liberal whiny bitches doesn't mean I can't see their point of view on some things.

All you got to complain about is some grammar and punctuation errors? Your life must really suck to let it get you so worked up about it.

Well said.

:gulp:

BigBadBrian

06-12-2005, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by Warham
Yeah, only BBB has partisan ramblings on this forum...

Triple B DOES NOT ramble about anything of a political nature....

Triple B makes wise nonpartisan political observations. :D

Nickdfresh

06-12-2005, 03:51 PM

From CNN

A spokeswoman for the Republican National Committee said Dean would rather sling mud than discuss serious matters.

"Dean's inflammatory rhetoric makes it clear that Democrats have no vision and would rather pander to the maniacal fringe than talk about the important issues facing our country," Tracey Schmitt said.

That's an incredably ironic quote coming from an RNC spokesperson these days. That gave me a good laugh!:D

FORD

06-12-2005, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Triple B DOES NOT ramble about anything of a political nature....

Triple B makes wise nonpartisan political observations. :D

Yeah, you're about as "non-partisan" as FAUX News :rolleyes:

FORD

06-12-2005, 03:58 PM

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
That's an incredably ironic quote coming from an RNC spokesperson these days. That gave me a good laugh!:D

That's typical of the Republicans under the BCE though. Whenever they make accusations like that, 99 times out of 100 it will be a case of what Ziggy Freud would have called "projection".

Warham

06-12-2005, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
That's an incredably ironic quote coming from an RNC spokesperson these days. That gave me a good laugh!:D

I really haven't heard one good idea out of the guy's mouth, other than to allow Election Day to become a national holiday. I wonder what his fix is for Social Security, or what he thinks of our national defense and security. Or perhaps what he thinks we can do to curtail illegal immigration. The only things I hear out of his mouth are references to white Christian Republicans who don't have to worry about picking up their kids from daycare on Election day since they are so wealthy.

Warham

06-12-2005, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by FORD
Yeah, you're about as "non-partisan" as FAUX News :rolleyes:

But FOX is definately more non-partisan than CBS, NBS, or ABS, or even CNS.

academic punk

06-12-2005, 05:51 PM

Originally posted by Warham
I really haven't heard one good idea out of the guy's mouth, other than to allow Election Day to become a national holiday. I wonder what his fix is for Social Security, or what he thinks of our national defense and security. Or perhaps what he thinks we can do to curtail illegal immigration. The only things I hear out of his mouth are references to white Christian Republicans who don't have to worry about picking up their kids from daycare on Election day since they are so wealthy.

Classic, War-sham.

Dean's responsibility as DNC is not to "fix" any of these things: it's to rasie money for the party (whether or not he's succeeding depends on which article you choose to pay attention to).

As for those other issues, he discussed those at length during his bid for the democrtaic presidential nomination last year.

In fact, his approach to Social security had a great deal to do with derailing his bid. He believed that it was a simple matter of raising the age when people can begin to collect.

Makes perfect sense: when SS was created the average life expentancy was much shorter. However, that doesn't play qwell with the electorate,and...well, they don't cal it the third rail of american politics for nothing (as W has been learning these days).

Warham

06-12-2005, 05:54 PM

Well, if he's just the money grubber for the party, he shouldn't be commenting on policy, which he is. It's open season.

academic punk

06-12-2005, 05:57 PM

Originally posted by Warham
Well, if he's just the money grubber for the party, he shouldn't be commenting on policy, which he is. He's open season.

What I mant is it's not his primary reponsibility to fix these things. Why? because he's not in a position to do so. That's the presidents job. His is to raise money.

One method of getting that money - WHICH BOTH PARTIES EMPLOY - is to communicate that you'd better give us your money, otherwise the other party will "really fuck up your home and the country".

Sp he's doing his job. Think of it as the political Pepsi challenge.

Warham

06-12-2005, 06:03 PM

Why didn't Terry McAwful go the same route?

LoungeMachine

06-12-2005, 07:09 PM

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
That's pretty good for a high school drop-out. ;)

I'm glad to see you have a dictionary.

Probably the only worthwhile book you own.

:gulp:

As usual, you're wrong TWICE in the same post.

The only 2 positives you and The Shrub have in common.

BOTH consistantly wrong.:rolleyes:

Poor Brie.

LoungeMachine

06-12-2005, 07:13 PM

THIS IS CLASSIC, COMING FROM A VICE PRESIDENT WHO SAYS "GO FUCK YOURSELF" ON THE SENATE FLOOR

AND SAYS DEAN "NEVER WON ANYTHING" [you know, the 5 time Governor}

WASHINGTON (June 12) - Howard Dean is "over the top,'' Vice President Dick Cheney says, calling the Democrats' chairman "not the kind of individual you want to have representing your political party.''

"I've never been able to understand his appeal. Maybe his mother loved him, but I've never met anybody who does. He's never won anything, as best I can tell,'' Cheney said in an interview to be aired Monday on Fox News Channel's "Hannity & Colmes.''

Dean was elected governor of Vermont five times between 1992 and 2000.

He ran for the 2004 Democratic presidential nomination but closed down his campaign after poor showings in early primaries.

In recent weeks, Dean has described the GOP as "pretty much a white, Christian party'' and said many Republicans have "never made an honest living.''

Republican leaders have called on him to apologize, and even some Democrats have distanced themselves from his remarks.

"So far, I think he's probably helped us more than he has them,'' Cheney said in the interview taped Friday.

"That's not the kind of individual you want to have representing your political party."

"People want us to fight. We are here to fight."
-Howard Dean, Democratic National Committee Chairman

The vice president added: "I really think Howard Dean's over the top. And more important ... I think many of his fellow Democrats feel the same way.''

Dean said Saturday that positive responses from influential supporters have reinforced his determination to keep talking tough.

"People want us to fight,'' Dean told the national party's executive committee. "We are here to fight.''

Addressing Iowa party activists later Saturday in Des Moines, he added: "We need to be blunt and clear about the things we're going to fight for. I'm tired of lying down in front of the Republican machine. We need to stand up for what we believe in.''

06-12-05 13:18 EDT

academic punk

06-12-2005, 07:40 PM

Originally posted by Warham
Why didn't Terry McAwful go the same route?

Because he fucked up.

During focus groups and surveys approaching the election, the response was such overwhelming dissatisfaction with the course the country had taken in the past four years - both domestically and internationally - that he and Kerry both believed it best not to say anything, just take the "high road" and let the voters do their thing.

When you're in the lead, there's no cause to stick your neck out, b/c the only thing that can change is that you'll no longer have the lead.

Plus, you're in a weird postion when the opponent is engaging in a war overseas: you don't want to denigrate the troops, you don't want to denigrate the country, it IS the president, and no matter what you think of him and his policies, you have to afford him a measure of respect.

But here's where they didn't look close enough: as the book goes, why would Kansas vote for Bush when so many of his policies go agianst what is in their economic interest?

One is Karl Rove and Karen hughes are excellent politicos, and understand spin better than anyone else in the governemnt. Listen to a Bush speech: he rarely says "parents", he says "moms and dads", he never says "industry", he says "employers".

The other more important element is that maybe the left doesn't understand/appreciate the values of the right as much as it ought to. Someone finds that gay marriage is a bigger problem than him having a little less regulated energy? For some, that's more than a fair trade. (and it's also a more abstract concept)

Nickdfresh

06-12-2005, 08:31 PM

Originally posted by Warham
Why didn't Terry McAwful go the same route?

Because as somebody astutely put it on NPR this week, McAULIFFE was a political operative, whereas DEAN is a politician. Each has it's advantages, each has it's drawbacks. But DEAN will start to pipe down a bit...

FORD

06-12-2005, 11:37 PM

from Moore's Lore by Dana Blankenhorn
June 10, 2005
A Master Politician at Work

Transformative politics is not for sissies.

If you’re to really change political trends, and put bottom rail on top for a generation, you can’t be gentle about it.

You can’t cajole. You can’t seduce. You have to go right for the throat. And you have to be ready for the whole of the old order to come down on you for it.

So let’s be clear about this right now. Love him or hate him, Howard Dean is a master politician.

He’s not really a liberal, you know. He’s what used to be called a Rockefeller Republican, back in the day. He believes that budgets should be balanced, that alliances should be negotiated, that science should be respected, and that it’s possible for government to make life better for people if it doesn’t take itself too seriously.

He made it work in Vermont. He ran to the right of other Democrats there. He balanced budgets. He dealt amicably with Republicans. For his pains he was often called a sell-out by environmentalists, by the state’s left, even by its gay community.

He’s still the same man, but today Rockefeller Republicanism is called extreme liberalism. He’s only on the left because the center has shifted radically to the right. Our assumptions today are far to the right of those our parents held. Most people today believe government is their enemy. Most people are skeptical about science. Most people don’t care about budgets. This is reflected in their choices right down the line, from President to school board.

So how do you effect change?

Well, you don’t do it softly. No great change agent in American political history has worked softly. They have all had enemies. They have chosen these enemies carefully. They have deliberately made themselves the victims of these enemies until events moved their way.

They have often made enemies within their own political party. A minority can only become a majority after it grows a spine and tosses aside the spineless. This is how Republicans did it 40 years ago. It’s what they did to the Rockefeller Republicans.

And it’s what Howard Dean has been doing to the Washington Democrats.

He ran against them in the primaries. They defeated his bid, but they wanted his people, so they gave him the party apparatus.

And he’s running with it. Saying that many Republicans “never worked a day” or that the GOP is a “white Christian party” isn’t a gaffe. It’s red meat to the netroots. And the first step toward change is always energizing your base. This is precisely what the “conservative movement” did in the 1960s. They energized and organized their base voters. They got them enrolled in like-minded organizations. They kept calling them victims of a great conspiracy. They got into their checkbooks (via direct mail in this case), and where their money went their hearts and minds soon followed.

Getting criticized by the party elders is actually part of the process. The leaders of the permanent minority are always doomed to become followers of the new majority. Howard Dean isn’t interested in leading a bunch of losers. He’s interested in political transformation.

Transformation, however, is a slow process, even in the Internet Age. We’re talking about people here. We’re talking about what I call Moore’s Law of Training, because it doesn’t exist. The productivity gains of the Internet explosion that came about in the 1990s didn’t really become apparent until the following decade, after people and businesses felt forced to learn, and to implement change.

What’s true in tech is true in politics.

My criticism of Dean has little to do with what he says. I’m more worried about the fact that the technology at his headquarters doesn’t properly scale. The Democratic Party is not yet a two-way discussion. It’s still too much talk goes down and money comes up. The discussion happens elsewhere, in the blogosphere, and the party’s presence within that discussion – even Dean’s presence – is surprisingly muted.

There are legal reasons for this. Anything the party does must be paid for, full price, and a scaled political discussion encompassing 100 million would cost Dean’s entire marketing budget. So this discussion takes place elsewhere, at Dailykos, at the Huffington Post, at TPM, at Eschaton, at Liberal Osis, at 1,000 other “points of light” where Democrats gather around small virtual campfires to feel their shared victimhood and plot their political revenge.

And at the end of the day, those bloggers put up their links to Dig Deep for Howard and people respond.

The bloggers pay the bills. The bloggers flog the netroots. The netroots respond with money. And it is good. Just as Richard Viguerie was good for Ronald Reagan, so Markos Moulitsas is very, very good for Howard Dean.

Harry Truman famously said, in response to calls that he “Give ‘em Hell,” that “I just tell the truth and they think it’s hell.” It brought him victory in an election Truman had no business winning, in 1948, an election that really kept Democrats dominant for 20 years, despite the rise of suburbia, and made possible both the Warren Court and the Civil Rights movement.

No Democrat on Earth has Howard Dean’s political brilliance. No one else has his instincts. He’s not crazy, he’s not angry, he’s not mad. He’s giving people the truth, and those who hear it are responding.

Those who feed and depend on the current system, both Republican and Democratic – they just think it’s hell. Because when the time is right, and the inevitable contradictions between our assumptions and reality occurs, they’re all going to be thrown out of their Washington paradise.

Who will replace them? Those who hang on tightest to Howard Dean’s coattails will replace them.

link (http://www.corante.com/mooreslore/archives/037050print.html)

Sarge's Little Helper

06-12-2005, 11:38 PM

Fuck the DLC!

academic punk

06-13-2005, 12:04 PM

Reagrding that article, I think it is best to do it - affect change - softly. People are more willing to go along if they feel like part of the team than if you treat them like children.

Studies prove people retain knowledge better if you let someone at least THINK they thought through and solved "problems" (and that can be complex math to learning to tie your own shoes) themselves.

One of Kerry's detractions was that he came across as "elitist". Bush somehow manages to convey that he's a Washington outsider (after having access to the white house from 1980 though 1992), regular guy (he's an inheritor of generations of MILLIONS of dollars), and someone you'd like to have a beer with (Bush don't drink).

Dean is still coming across - the PERCEPTION is - as someone who is talking (and, for some, thats putting it lightly) TO rather than WITH people.

I want to hear him and his message. Whetehr it's being bogged down with HOW it's being communicated is another question.

academic punk

06-13-2005, 07:53 PM

Scouring through through some letters in various publications, found these:

To the Editor:

Re: "Dean's Remarks Draw Fire From Both Sides of the Aisle":

Unfortunately, the derogatory remarks by Howard Dean, chairman of the Democratic party, about republicans have distracted attention from more serious issues facing this country. I believe he will get back on track and stay on message.

Democrats, and Democratic leaders, should never forget that Dr. Dean was one of only a few Democrats who had the courage to challenge President Bush and his administration on thier reasons for going to war in Iraq - and he was right.

If these leaders had half the courage that Dr Dean has shown, their party and their country would be in much better shape.

Bennington, Vt.

academic punk

06-13-2005, 07:55 PM

To the Editor:

I think it is hilarious that the Democratic Party can appoint Howard dean as party chairman and then oppose John R. Bolton's selection as ambassador to the United nations because they think he lacks subtlety.

Greenwich, Conn.

academic punk

06-13-2005, 07:58 PM

To the editor:

Howard dean is right on target in criticizing Republicans. Who needs a bunch of Caspar Milquetoasts cowering in the corner of Congress when the United States is being dismantled economically, morally, and institutionally?

As a contributing member of the Democratic Party, I want to see some backbone in Congress. If the Democrats ahope to succeed, they had better find their voice. If their fundraising falls short, don't blame Howard Dean.

Jacksonville, Fla.

superdave

06-13-2005, 08:13 PM

Howard Dean is an idiot, plain and simple, if he continues on his current pace, the Dems will be finished in quick order

DrMaddVibe

06-13-2005, 08:42 PM

Originally posted by superdave
Howard Dean is an idiot, plain and simple, if he continues on his current pace, the Dems will be finished in quick order

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

You'll ruin the ending for Ford!!!!:spank:

FORD

06-13-2005, 08:51 PM

The babblings of a racist idiot don't change my opinion one way or the other about anything.

academic punk

06-13-2005, 09:36 PM

To the Editor:

During the past four and a half years we have seen a president mislead us into war, begin the process of dismantling Social Security, push an extreme right0wing agenda and steadily make appointments of judges who support such an agenda, and meanwhile the Democrats have a lunch to chastise Howard Dean for speaking out against the Republicans abuse of power. If Joseph R. Biden Jr. and John Edwards cannot lead, they should get out of the way andf allow others to do so. Half the country eagerly awaits someone with enough fire in his belly to speak out against this extremeism.

New York

academic punk

06-13-2005, 09:42 PM

To The Editor:

I expect Republicans to blast Howard Dean when he criticizes them. The current majority in Congress and the administration are the most thin-skinned politicians I have seen in the recent years. This administration and its sounding boards have intimidated anyone who criticizes anything they do.

It is disheartening , however, to see Democrats attacking Dr. Dean for speaking out. Republicans frequently question Democrats patriotism. Justice Janice Rogers Brown has equated liberalism with slavery. It's about time at least some Democrats had the gumption to strike back.

There is a wing of the Democratic Party that believes the way to win elkections is to try to appeal to moderate Republicans. I WOULD SUBMIT THAT FOR EVERY MODERATE REPUBLICAN THE DEMOCRATS CAN WOO BY COMPROMISING THEIR PRINCIPLES THERE ARE TWO CORE DEMOCRATS WHO WILL VOTE FOR RALPH NADER, THE GREEN PARTY, OR NOT AT ALL.

Goshen, NY

Satan

06-13-2005, 10:30 PM

Originally posted by academic punk
To The Editor:

I expect Republicans to blast Howard Dean when he criticizes them. The current majority in Congress and the administration are the most thin-skinned politicians I have seen in the recent years. This administration and its sounding boards have intimidated anyone who criticizes anything they do.

It is disheartening , however, to see Democrats attacking Dr. Dean for speaking out. Republicans frequently question Democrats patriotism. Justice Janice Rogers Brown has equated liberalism with slavery. It's about time at least some Democrats had the gumption to strike back.

There is a wing of the Democratic Party that believes the way to win elkections is to try to appeal to moderate Republicans. I WOULD SUBMIT THAT FOR EVERY MODERATE REPUBLICAN THE DEMOCRATS CAN WOO BY COMPROMISING THEIR PRINCIPLES THERE ARE TWO CORE DEMOCRATS WHO WILL VOTE FOR RALPH NADER, THE GREEN PARTY, OR NOT AT ALL.

Goshen, NY

This is exactly what I have been telling the appeasement "centrist" Demoncrats for years!

FORD

06-13-2005, 11:52 PM

JON CARROLL
- Jon Carroll
Monday, June 13, 2005

Why are the Democrats such weenies? Howard Dean makes the unremarkable statement that the GOP is the party of white Christians, and other Democrats run and flee and say, "Oh no, oh no!" And a Republican yahoo accuses Dean of "political hate speech." Neither "white" nor "Christian" is an epithet. A glance at the videotape from last year's Republican convention indicates that both characterizations are entirely fair.

And yet some Democrats think Dean is being too confrontational. We should be nice to the lying liars or people will think we're, gasp, partisan. "Partisan" is a good thing; it's what the Founding Fathers had in mind. The problem comes when one party stays very partisan and the other party starts modifying and mollifying and trying to find some mythical friendly center. I loved Mister Rogers, but I never thought he'd make a good chairman of the Democratic Party.

So maybe lunatic liberals should keep a few things in mind. First, the Bush administration is increasingly unpopular. The latest ABC/Washington Post poll reveals that 52 percent of the American people disapprove of the way Bush is running the country. Ask specifically about Iraq, and the numbers climb -- 58 percent disapprove of his handling of the war.

Which means, according to Eric Alterman, "George W. Bush's approval rating is now a full twenty points lower than Bill Clinton's was on the day he was impeached." I believe the American people want a party that will express their displeasure at the elitist and corrupt Bush administration in strong and vigorous terms.

People should stop believing the bullfluff that Fox News represents some significant percentage of the populace. The latest Nielsen ratings show that the Fox News Channel has 1,758,000 viewers in prime time, with only 416,000 falling into the 25-54 demographic. This is in a nation of 300 million people. However much noise it makes and however much room it takes up in the brains of media people, Fox is a very small muffin in a very large bakery -- a small, wizened, bitter muffin. Ignore it; everyone else does.

Elitist? Since February, the U.S. Army has missed its recruiting goals every month, sometimes by as much as 40 percent. People do not like the war, and they do not want their sons and daughters dying in the cause of ... whatever the cause is. You'd think that Bushies would support the beleaguered military by enrolling high-profile Republican scions in the Army -- both Bush daughters are eligible to sign up -- but it's not happening. Sacrifice does not play well in the "go back to sleep" Bush propaganda parameters. Nah, they make the wars -- let someone else fight them.

Corrupt? You bet. I think we have scandal fatigue, because some of the newer ones are just not getting any play at all. A senior Air Force procurement officer, Darleen Druyun, made a deal to lease Boeing refueling tankers for $23 billion, despite Pentagon studies showing that the tankers were unnecessary. Then Druyun quit the government and joined Boeing. Such a coincidence. Two years later, she pleaded guilty to conspiracy to defraud and was sentenced to nine months in the federal pen.

Meanwhile, the Bush administration has ignited a trade war with Europe over "illegal subsidies" to Airbus because the alleged subsidies hurt the trade position of, yes, Boeing. We'd never give illegal subsidies to Boeing, oh my no.

This is just one example of the malign effects of the revolving door between big business and the Bush administration. There's the case of Philip Cooney, a former American Petroleum Institute lobbyist who signed on as the chief of staff for the White House Council on Environmental Quality (!!). According to documents obtained by the New York Times, Cooney "repeatedly" edited official documents to eliminate or downplay the now widely accepted links between greenhouse gases and global warming.

The White House is still taking the position that global warming is a liberal conspiracy. The liberals' ability to cause a drought in Australia has amazed many.

This is merely the latest in a long series of incidents, from "abstinence only" sex education campaigns to downplayed links between smoking and heart disease, in which the administration has adjusted the facts to fit its conclusions -- and to please its corporate donors and its ultraconservative base.

Most Americans are neither ultraconservative nor superrich, and they are interested in hearing the truth. The Democrats should be interested in telling the truth, and telling it in a strong and convincing manner. They cannot flinch when the White House does one of its "gay marriage booga booga" dances. Be not afraid, Democrats. This is not an occasion in which the meek will inherit the earth. Speak for the people, because the people need you to end the madness.

link (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/06/13/DDGM7C8B5I1.DTL)

Nitro Express

06-14-2005, 12:20 AM

Hey, what about Jimmy Dean? You know the ex musician that became the king of the sausage industry?

academic punk

06-14-2005, 10:16 PM

Over 24 hours and no new posts? Please don't let Nitro's terrible joke kill this thread...

(Sorry nitro!)

academic punk

06-14-2005, 10:24 PM

Another op-ed by George Weeks, good in that it takes a look from both perspectives...

It appears to me that Howard Dean, the inflammatory Democratic national chairman, is about to implode as he did in his quest for the 2004 presidential nomination.

But from where Michigan Democratic State Chairman Mark Brewer toils in the trenches, state party leaders across the nation "are very, very pleased with him. He's delivering on everything he promised" and raising about $1 million a week.

Brewer chairs the association of party state chairs and is on the executive committee of the Democratic National Committee.

I called Brewer after watching a half dozen or so commentators on several Sunday national television talk shows rapped Dean for "ravings," being "incendiary ... a red meat" flame-thrower, etc.

Republican Pat Buchanan, himself a failed contender for a presidential nomination, called Dean a "caricature of a wacko liberal" on the way to becoming a "laughing stock." Other less partisan talking heads lampooned Dean for such over-the-top cracks as describing the GOP as "pretty much a white, Christian party."

As Jay Leno quipped, "Unfortunately, (Republicans) are not as diverse as his own state of Vermont" -- which is 96.8 white.

Dean says many Republicans have "never made an honest living." Nor have many folks of other stripes.

In a taped interview for Fox News Channel's Monday "Hannity & Colmes" show, Vice President Dick Cheney called Dean "not the kind of individual you want to have representing your political party. ... So far, I think he's probably helped us more than he has them."

Cheney said, "He's never won anything, as best I can tell."

He won five terms as governor after serving as Vermont's 1986-91 lieutenant governor and 1981-86 as a state representative. Dean was no wacko liberal as governor.

Some prominent Democrats wisely distance themselves from Deanisms. U.S. Rep. Harold Ford of Tennessee (The Almanac of American Politics says "it is possible to imagine" Ford as the first black president) aptly says Dean "gets a little excited at the mouth."

Michigan's Brewer, himself an in-your-face kind of guy, concedes Dean on occasion "could have made a better choice of words," but he's saying what "needs to be said. His job is to be provocative."

On that count, Dean gets a good job performance review.