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View Full Version : U.S. Marines Roughed Up Prisoners in Iraq!



Nickdfresh
06-11-2005, 12:46 PM
GOOD! Contractor pricks!

June 11, 2005

Contractors Say Marines Behaved Abusively
The arrest of private security workers over gunfire in Fallouja reflects friction with U.S. military personnel.

By T. Christian Miller, Times Staff Writer
http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2005-06/17974511.jpg
JAILED IN IRAQ: Matt Raiche, a former Marine, was among 16 contractors held by U.S. forces. Looking on is his wife, Amber.
(Cathleen Allison / AP)
WASHINGTON — Matt Raiche knew he was in trouble when the Marines handed him an orange jumpsuit, a bottle to urinate in, a Koran and a Muslim prayer rug.

Marine guards put the former Marine into a 6-foot-by-6-foot concrete cell, locked the steel door and told him to keep his mouth shut. In cells nearby, he heard imprisoned insurgents screaming in Arabic.

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"They took us to be … insurgent terrorists," said Raiche, 34, one of 16 U.S. contractors arrested by Marines last month on suspicion of firing indiscriminately at U.S. troops and Iraqi civilians. "We said we were Americans. We didn't know what was going on."

So began three days of captivity for the employees of North Carolina-based Zapata Engineering, who were apprehended after Marines allegedly witnessed them firing weapons from an armored convoy passing through Fallouja.

Although the details remain unclear, the May 28 incident reflects the long-simmering tension between the military and private business in Iraq. Even though the government has hired companies to perform many functions there — including providing security — it does not formally oversee their activities, allowing misunderstandings and disputes to fester.

Raiche said the Marines seemed resentful about the salaries contractors in Iraq are paid. "One Marine gets me on the ground and puts his knee in my back. Then I hear another Marine say, "How does it feel to make that contractor money now?' "

The contractors who were detained have denied the accusations against them. They were released and are in the process of returning home. Three unarmed Iraqi subcontractors for Pasadena-based Parsons Corp. who were passengers in the convoy were also held and released.

The Zapata contractors, who were held at a Marine base near Fallouja, acknowledged firing warning shots to prevent a suspicious vehicle from approaching their convoy but said they never aimed at Marines or civilians.

Marine officers confirmed that the Justice Department was reviewing the incident to determine whether criminal charges would be filed. The contractors were questioned by the FBI and Naval Criminal Investigative Services.

The Marine documents said the Zapata contractors, besides firing on civilians, had unauthorized weapons in their vehicles — AT4 antitank weapons and grenades. Several of the contractors said they were given those weapons by Marines in the months before the confrontation. The Marines said they could not immediately confirm the source of the weapons.

The incident also renewed questions about the U.S. military's treatment of prisoners in Iraq. One of the few things both sides largely agree on is that the Marines treated the contractors like any other detainees — treatment the contractors found abusive and humiliating.

The Marines are investigating the contractors' abuse complaints but have found "nothing to substantiate those claims," said Lt. Col. David Lapan, a Marine spokesman.

The case is believed to represent the first time the military has detained contractors in Iraq on suspicion of endangering Iraqi civilians or U.S. troops.

By some estimates, more than 20,000 security contractors operate in Iraq — a private army that is the second-largest armed foreign contingent in the country, surpassed only by the 140,000 U.S. troops.

The contractors perform functions that thinly stretched U.S. forces would be hard-pressed to provide, such as armed protection for Iraqi and U.S. civilian officials, including the U.S. ambassador.

Many contractors are retired soldiers from the U.S., Britain and Australia. Others served in the military of the old apartheid government of South Africa or the armed forces of Colombia and El Salvador, long linked to human rights violations.

The contractors work in a legal shadow world, largely unregulated by either the U.S. or Iraqi government. Under an order signed by Coalition Provisional Authority chief L. Paul Bremer III in June 2004, as the U.S.-led occupation drew to a close, contractors are immune from prosecution in Iraq as long as the actions in question were performed as part of their work.

Almost since the beginning of the U.S.-led invasion in March 2003, there have been tensions between the private forces and the military.

Soldiers resent the perks the contractors enjoy. Contractors routinely make three or four times the pay of troops — more than $100,000 a year.

Some troops and officials see the contractors as "cowboys" who enrage ordinary Iraqis with wanton behavior. Journalists have observed them pointing their guns and firing rounds at Iraqis who come too close. Contractors have been seen racing around Baghdad, Fallouja and other hotspots in armored SUVs, forcing Iraqi civilians off the road.

At a conference this year in Washington, Marine Col. Thomas X. Hammes noted that the military and the contractors had different objectives: The military wants to win the war and contractors want to serve their clients.

He pointed to the protection provided to Bremer by contractors as an example of divergent interests. The U.S. wanted to win over Iraqis, he said. But the aggressive tactics the contractors used to shield Bremer sometimes alienated them, he said.

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"We can always get another ambassador," Hammes joked grimly.

Nevertheless, many contractors pride themselves on their professionalism. The highest-paid contractors are older men with extensive combat experience. Some view young U.S. troops as inexperienced and dangerous.

There have been numerous instances of troops mistakenly firing at security contractors — "blue on blue" incidents in the parlance of Iraq, similar to "friendly fire" between troops.

Security contractors also complain that they lack many of the resources provided to the military. Contractors are not supposed to have access to military intelligence or carry heavy weapons.

The Fallouja case "brings to the fore this tension of using both private and public forces," said Peter W. Singer, a scholar at the Brookings Institution who has written about contractors. "Coordinating military forces is difficult…. Now it's even more difficult because you're adding private actors."

According to Lapan, the Marine spokesman, Marines saw a convoy of trucks and sport utility vehicles firing at soldiers and civilians about 2 p.m. on May 28. About three hours later, another group of Marines observed similar vehicles firing at a Marine guard post. The troops stopped the convoy and detained the 16 Americans and three Iraqis traveling in the vehicles, placing them in holding cells at Camp Fallouja.

The contractors have denied firing shots at the Marines. Two of them, Raiche and Rick Blanchard, repeated those denials Friday. Blanchard, 42, a former Marine and Florida state trooper, said the Marines had confused the Zapata convoy with an earlier security convoy that had fired indiscriminately.

Raiche said one contractor fired three shots at the ground in front of an approaching Iraqi vehicle as the convoy passed through Fallouja. "That's standard procedure," said Raiche, a 34-year-old former Marine. "We don't want any vehicle inside our convoy. It could be a car bomb."

Blanchard and Raiche said they were physically and mentally abused by Marine guards. They said the Marines taunted them about their salaries, slammed them around and threatened them with a guard dog.

"They were treating us like we were the insurgents," Blanchard said. "It broke my heart the way the Marines treated us."

The military denies that any physical abuse occurred. "We treat all detainees professionally and in accordance with strict procedures," Lapan said, noting that the Marines had separated the Americans from detained rebel suspects and that the men were eventually given U.S.-style food.

Lapan said the group's release after three days did not mean the Marines considered them innocent.

The service gave each of the 16 contractors a letter dated June 5 barring them from further operations in Al Anbar province in western Iraq.

"Your convoy was speeding through [Fallouja] and firing shots indiscriminately, some of which impacted positions manned by U.S. Marines," the letter said. "Your actions endangered the lives of innocent Iraqis and U.S. service members in the area."

All of the men have since resigned from Zapata Engineering, company executives said. Blanchard and Raiche said they did so because of the Marine ban on their working in Iraq.

The company said it did not believe accusations that the convoy had fired on U.S. forces.

"The fact that all of the company's security personnel in Iraq are Americans leads us to believe that the root cause of the events was a misunderstanding by people who are living and working in an intense and stressful situation," company President Manuel Zapata said in a statement.

Of the 16 Zapata employees, 14 were security guards and two were working on a contract to detonate Iraqi munitions.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-zapata11jun11.story?page=1

jcook11
06-11-2005, 02:12 PM
War is hell

Redballjets88
06-11-2005, 02:14 PM
exactly ....the prisoners were probably being asses ...prisoners in america get beaten everyday...why dont u complain about that

Satan
06-11-2005, 04:43 PM
Wouldn't surprise me at all if these so called "contractors" (A.K.A BCE treasonous mercenary shitball thugs) were the ones leading the "insurgency" in the first place.

They were definitely the "stars" of the Nick Berg video, you can bet money on that.

Warham
06-11-2005, 10:00 PM
Yeah, the contractors are leading the insurgency...

Do you know how absolutely moronic that sounds...

Read that again...

So Nick Berg was killed by contractors, huh?

I think we are scraping the bottom of the barrel now.

Satan
06-11-2005, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Yeah, the contractors are leading the insurgency...

Do you know how absolutely moronic that sounds...

Read that again...

So Nick Berg was killed by contractors, huh?

I think we are scraping the bottom of the barrel now.

Show me a gang of 6' muscular Arabs, and I'll show you a bunch of hired killers in ski masks wearing fucking Air Jordans. (and those weren't named for the country west of Iraq either)

BTW, I'm the Devil. I have access to intelligence that no mortal can posess :cool:

Warham
06-11-2005, 10:25 PM
I think I need to take a break from this forum...

zeronumber
06-12-2005, 12:57 AM
I think it's stupid and hypocritical to look down upon the marines for roughing up a few prisoners.

First off, we're in a war, horrible shit is going to happen on both fronts...So why is it always such a shock when the us does the same thing that other countries do?

Soilders, contractors, and missionaries when captured get tortured, and beheaded. Some get burned and hung off of bridges...Do we ask the middle east to issue an appology for they're crossing the lines of war? Do we chastize them for breaking the rules? no.
All of a sudden, a few pictures get taken, and a few prisoners get beat up, and the world cries foul...yet the us actually takes action against it's soilders and tries to compensate, which I think is bullshit.

Frankly, whatever happens to so called "iraqi prisoners" is too good for them. Not only because they kill us soilders, but they show no mercy or decency to their own people. All those who volenter for the iraqi police get killed, and there is constant insurgants who want to overthrow whatever work is accomplished, even by suicidal measures...yet we're not allowed to so much rough up one prisoner?
Give me a break.

Redballjets88
06-12-2005, 01:02 AM
yeah i agree.....our troops shouldnt have taken pictures and degraded but it shouldnt have been such a big deal

zeronumber
06-12-2005, 01:09 AM
Originally posted by Redballjets88
yeah i agree.....our troops shouldnt have taken pictures and degraded but it shouldnt have been such a big deal

Exactly. Granted it was bad, but at the same time, it's war...

This is the sort of thing that makes me sick though, there are people who fight for our freedom, and putting their lives on the lines, and the so called people who want to bring them back home, criticize everything that they do.

Everytime I read one of these things about how what we're doing in Iraq is wrong, just shows me that people enjoy nothing more than to spit in the face of those who die for us, and it makes me sick.

scorpioboy33
06-12-2005, 07:21 AM
american right or wrong ........pathetic how some people are ok with ANY thing these facist bastards do in the name of the good ole USA

zeronumber
06-12-2005, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by scorpioboy33
american right or wrong ........pathetic how some people are ok with ANY thing these facist bastards do in the name of the good ole USA

You know, you can cry out American Exceptionalism...but even you have to agree that it's bullshit that everytime the america does something right, or do something wrong, we get criticized either way, while another country get's excused.

Besides, what do you care, aren't you from Canada? Plus, I'd reflect on the shit you're talking, espesially calling our troops Facist bastards, when the webmaster himself(as well as other members, and the friends and faimily of members), is putting his ass on the line for us everyday.

I know, it's a hard concept to understand, living in a country that moves towards socialism closer and closer everyday to sympathize those who actually do make a difference in the world, but you're going to have to try.

Nickdfresh
06-12-2005, 10:51 AM
I have a feeling the webmaster might dislike the "contractors," who are little more than mercenaries, earning far more than the typical soldier. And they often cause problems for the US forces that are trying to win the "hearts & minds" of the populace.

Those persons, US or otherwise, give up any rights they have when they travel to a war zone. They are being paid a lot to voluntarily be there. The AMERICAN servicemen and the IRAQIs do not have such a choice.


From the article
The Marine documents said the Zapata contractors, besides firing on civilians, had unauthorized weapons in their vehicles � AT4 antitank weapons (bazookas) and grenades. Several of the contractors said they were given those weapons by Marines in the months before the confrontation. The Marines said they could not immediately confirm the source of the weapons.

I applaud the MARINES on their consistency, these MERCs are a bunch of whiners that stirred up shit, then got what they deserved.


"They were treating us like we were the insurgents," Blanchard said. "It broke my heart the way the Marines treated us."


Well boo-fucking-hoo! They didn't get preferential treatment over IRAQI guerillas, that's their biggest complaint? Fuck 'em, then stay out of a warzone.

"How do you like your paycheck now (bitch)?

scorpioboy33
06-12-2005, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by zeronumber
You know, you can cry out American Exceptionalism...but even you have to agree that it's bullshit that everytime the america does something right, or do something wrong, we get criticized either way, while another country get's excused.

Besides, what do you care, aren't you from Canada? Plus, I'd reflect on the shit you're talking, espesially calling our troops Facist bastards, when the webmaster himself(as well as other members, and the friends and faimily of members), is putting his ass on the line for us everyday.

I know, it's a hard concept to understand, living in a country that moves towards socialism closer and closer everyday to sympathize those who actually do make a difference in the world, but you're going to have to try.

The only diffence you're making is pumping more oil and killing more brown people, congrats!
You went into Iraq under bogus reasons and you're hated around the world because we see what your great nation is turning into.
Well done ;)

scorpioboy33
06-12-2005, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by zeronumber
Plus, I'd reflect on the shit you're talking, espesially calling our troops Facist bastards, when the webmaster himself(as well as other members, and the friends and faimily of members), is putting his ass on the line for us everyday.

don't bring Sarge into this. I love that he created and maintains this board, other than that him fighting in what I consider a war of with no honour is his decision. I hope he comes back well I truly do but his ass is not on the line for me in the slightest because Iraq was no thread to me at all, and as a matter of face you either probable.

Nickdfresh
06-12-2005, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by scorpioboy33
don't bring Sarge into this. I love that he created and maintains this board, other than that him fighting in what I consider a war of with no honour is his decision. I hope he comes back well I truly do but his ass is not on the line for me in the slightest because Iraq was no thread to me at all, and as a matter of face you either probable.

Indeed, no one has the right to speak for SARGE, as I just sorta' did.

scorpioboy33
06-12-2005, 11:27 AM
it does make me sad though that someone who added something real cool for READ VH fans is in harms way :(

Warham
06-12-2005, 04:33 PM
Originally posted by scorpioboy33
don't bring Sarge into this. I love that he created and maintains this board, other than that him fighting in what I consider a war of with no honour is his decision. I hope he comes back well I truly do but his ass is not on the line for me in the slightest because Iraq was no thread to me at all, and as a matter of face you either probable.

You're from Canada. Terrorists aren't threatened by your country, so they aren't going to try to attack you. They already know you guys aren't going to put up a fight, like Spain.

Also, Sarge's ass isn't on the line for Canada.

kentuckyklira
06-12-2005, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by scorpioboy33
american right or wrong ........pathetic how some people are ok with ANY thing these facist bastards do in the name of the good ole USA Exactly!

But it´s all in the name of "freedom", you know!

The question of course is, whose "freedom"?

kentuckyklira
06-12-2005, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by Warham
You're from Canada. Terrorists aren't threatened by your country, so they aren't going to try to attack you. They already know you guys aren't going to put up a fight, like Spain.

Also, Sarge's ass isn't on the line for Canada. So, what you´re saying is that if the USA threatens somebody and that somebody actually fights back, he´s automatically a terrorist?

Hardly surprising that the USA and its institutions are favored targets!

Warham
06-12-2005, 04:49 PM
No, that's not what I said.

I guess you just don't really understand English all that well.

kentuckyklira
06-12-2005, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by Warham
No, that's not what I said.

I guess you just don't really understand English all that well. You might want to reread what you posted, my English is pretty fine!

Warham
06-12-2005, 04:57 PM
I wrote it. I don't need to re-read it.

scorpioboy33
06-12-2005, 05:02 PM
So, what you´re saying is that if the USA threatens somebody and that somebody actually fights back, he´s automatically a terrorist?


it's funny warham how you avoid answering certain question..I wonder if it's cause you know you don't want what you really believe in posted

kentuckyklira
06-12-2005, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by Warham
I wrote it. I don't need to re-read it. :monkey:

kentuckyklira
06-12-2005, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by scorpioboy33
So, what you´re saying is that if the USA threatens somebody and that somebody actually fights back, he´s automatically a terrorist?


it's funny warham how you avoid answering certain question..I wonder if it's cause you know you don't want what you really believe in posted In a nutshell, you got it right 100%!

Three Lock Rock
06-13-2005, 02:43 AM
we should rough up all the iraqis we want. their not human. their tentdwellers.

america, love it or leave it.

fags.

three lock rock (kickin ass and takin names)

FORD
06-13-2005, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by Three Suck Cock


america, love it or leave it.



Leave it. And take Hagar with you.

Three Lock Rock
06-13-2005, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by FORD
Leave it. And take Hagar with you.

shut up faggit! your a big fag eh? i hear you like to suck the big dick.

liberal fag.

three lock rock (proud conservative kickin ass and takin names)

Angel
06-13-2005, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by Three Lock Rock
we should rough up all the iraqis we want. their not human. their tentdwellers.

For those of you who can't figure out why American's are hated so much. This right here is your answer in a nut shell.

Nickdfresh
06-13-2005, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by Angel
For those of you who can't figure out why American's are hated so much. This right here is your answer in a nut shell.

AMERICANS are aliases?:confused:

BigBadBrian
06-13-2005, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
AMERICANS are aliases?:confused:

Angel is an alias for Katydid.

:gulp:

FORD
06-13-2005, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
AMERICANS are aliases?:confused:

Three Cock is an alias, but there are a lot of "real" people spouting the same ignorant bullshit.

Angel
06-13-2005, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Angel is an alias for Katydid.

:gulp:

Now, BBB.... that was LOW!!!! even for you...

Angel
06-13-2005, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
AMERICANS are aliases?:confused:

C'mon Nick, I KNOW you have a brain, why don't you use it sometimes? It's not WHO said it, it's WHAT was said.

Nickdfresh
06-13-2005, 07:04 PM
I have a brain?:confused:
http://homepage.smc.edu/nestler_andrew/scarecrow.jpg

Nitro Express
06-14-2005, 03:55 AM
I was not for going into Iraq. I still think it was a huge mistake and basically a Haliburton oil grab. I certainly can understand the rest of the world not trusting the United States now.

Like many US citizens, I myself don't trust my own govt. because it's full of corruption. I still love the United States and tottaly stand by our Consitutional form of govt. It's not perfect but it's still the best compromise. Nothing in this world made by man is 100% perfect.

I think many of us have lost vision of why this is all happening. We were attacked by terrorists. Now with a country as large and complicated as the United States, this sets lots of wheels into motion and sure, people are going to try and take advantage of the situation for their own gain. They always have.

I'm tired of all the US bashing or the mudslinging towards Canada or Europe. Not everyone in Europe hates us and the same with Canada. I think we need to be careful about taring a whole country of people with the same brush that one idiot from that country might deserve.

As far as calling our armed forces nazis and facisists that's tottaly uncalled for. The military is a huge complicated machine that works on people following orders. I would say most the people serving in Iraq don't want to be there. I have a friend who's husband is over there and it's been really hard on her and their kids. He could either follow his orders or become awol and be a discrace to his country.

I get a little tired of people sitting in arm chairs judging the whole world and over simplifying things.

You see, we have very little control over what happens as citizens as we are all tied up in a big machine. We can vote. Politicians always fuck up. Shit happens. Hey, in some wars, brothers end up fighting brothers. Sometimes all you can do is pick a side. Countless war movies have dealt with the big question of "What are we fighting for?" Sometimes there is no easy answer. But in certain times, all you can do is pick a side and do your duty.

Right now the world is being stirred and maybe staying in nuetral is no longer a luxery and a side must be picked. I think the question many frustrated people are asking themselves is: "Am I still for the United States or am I against it?"

Hey, I might not like the current president or agree with his war plan, I think we have fucked up in many many ways but I certainly am not going to bash my country like an enemy of it would. I've picked my side. I'm an American and I will be an American to the end. If people hate me for that, so be it. If you want to change things, then don't do business with companies that support things you don't agree with, don't vote for people you don't agree with, hell, run for office yourself. What's the alternative? Well, gee, I guess we could get rid of all this messy politics and voting and just have a dictatorship that makes all the decisions for us.

The bottom line is the Islamic radicals are on the move causing trouble and have committed horrific terrorist attacks in Inodnesia, Spain, the United States, and Russia. This is the worst the problem has been and it will only continue to get worse. If you think you are immune from such attacks because you live in Germany or France I have news for you. If they will blow up a train in Spain, they will do the same anywhere in Europe.

You see this is a religiouse war. Nobody wants to admit it but it is. Supposedly these attacks are against countries that support Israel or support US involvment in the middle east. In short, if your country is involved in islamic world in anyway and you are a non-muslim, you are considered fair game for a hit.

So what if we tell Israel they are on their own and pull out of the middle east. Would this stop the terrorists? I don't think so. They want to spread Islam throughout the world.

So the big mess is we have to fight radicle factions of one of the world's largest religions without offending anyone and do this while dealing with multiple countries. The politics couldn't be nastier.

All I know is the Islamic radicles are stirring the shit and destabalizing the world in the process.

All I know is it's like being on an episode of the Real World where everyone hates each others guts. What a fucking soap opera!

PETE's lmsHADOW
06-14-2005, 04:07 AM
The French and Germans are a bunch of fucking pussies relying on the US for their protection! Fucking fon du dipping, weiner schnitzel slurping motherfuckers! I for one only drink American booths!

kentuckyklira
06-14-2005, 04:40 AM
Originally posted by PETE's lmsHADOW
The French and Germans are a bunch of fucking pussies relying on the US for their protection! Fucking fon du dipping, weiner schnitzel slurping motherfuckers! I for one only drink American booths! You´re a troll, and a lame one at that!

Once you´ve learnt to spell wIEner schnitzel you might want to know that that´s an Austrian dish!

BigBadBrian
06-14-2005, 09:42 AM
Originally posted by kentuckyklira
You´re a troll, and a lame one at that!

Once you´ve learnt to spell wIEner schnitzel you might want to know that that´s an Austrian dish!

Got a good recipe? :D

kentuckyklira
06-14-2005, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Got a good recipe? :D Why, tired of flipping burgers?

BigBadBrian
06-14-2005, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by kentuckyklira
Why, tired of flipping burgers?

Why do Liberals have to be a dick all of the time? :rolleyes:

kentuckyklira
06-14-2005, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Why do Liberals have to be a dick all of the time? :rolleyes: OK, basicly a wiener schnitzel is a pork steak (or whatever you call that in the USA) fried in a batter much like you use for onion rings, chicken and a few other dishes.

Egg, breadcrumbs, flour, salt, pepper.

LoungeMachine
06-14-2005, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by Warham
I think I need to take a break from this forum...

:rolleyes:

LoungeMachine
06-14-2005, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Why do Liberals have to be a dick all of the time? :rolleyes:

The same reason all neo-con shitbags are;)

Keeyth
06-14-2005, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Why do Liberals have to be a dick all of the time? :rolleyes:

Actually, it's smug, closed-minded conservatives who come off as dicks all the time. You haven't changed a bit I see.

Good to see ya Lounge machine! ;)