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View Full Version : Why TYSON isn't one of the greatest of all time



POJO_Risin
06-12-2005, 01:58 PM
Good article...

and one we'll all probably agree with...

Tyson is a better quitter than hitter
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Frank Lotierzo / BoxingScene.com
Posted: 41 minutes ago



Mike Tyson (50-6) quit on his stool last night in his fight against Kevin McBride (33-4-1). Tyson's surrender against the unranked McBride marks the fourth loss in a row that he has said "No Mas."

Funny, last week when asked about what he thought of McBride, Tyson said "He doesn't look like he punches hard," after previously referring to him as a "tomato can." What does that say about Tyson throwing in the towel and sitting on his stool to end his fight against him? It says exactly what Tyson has always been, a front-running bully who backed down every time he was challenged and met with resistance.

This will change nothing among those who will continue to ignore the truth and accept excuses as to why he lost. In reality, Tyson adds another piece of evidence showing why it was a pipe dream to ever mention him as one of the all-time great heavyweight champs. But most boxing fans who began following the sport with Tyson will continue to try and build his case for greatness around his victory against Michael Spinks. Today, Tyson is more known for his losses than his wins. Name one other great that can be said about.

Tyson had two things working for him that blurred who he really was as a fighter, starting with the fact that he was the most brilliantly managed fighter in boxing history. On his way up, he was promoted and hyped to be such a devastating puncher that no fighter could withstand his punch. Yet he lost in his prime by knockout to a fighter who never beat a top heavyweight before or after he knocked Tyson out.

The promotion of Tyson was so overwhelming that when Buster Douglas' mother passed away three weeks before their fight, it was viewed as a positive for Buster and helped him defeat Tyson. After the fight, of course. Prior to the fight, it wasn't thought of as being a positive until Tyson was crawling around on the canvas looking for his mouthpiece.

This was due to the fact that novice fight observers needed an excuse to fathom Tyson not just losing, but getting counted out. Tyson made the job easier for the marketing brain trust who crafted the Tyson myth, because he could punch hard with both hands and acted fearless coming into the ring. However, knockouts against second-tier journeymen conned a lot of boxing fans, writers, historians and television executives. This is mainly due to the fact that those watching boxing from afar are scared and fearful of hard punchers.

To those who don't know, a big puncher is very intimidating and most can't see beyond that, missing the puncher's obvious flaw. They also miss that more times than not, big punchers don't always have the best chin or the biggest hearts. They just can't get past the power. Tyson, coming off a spectacular early-round knockout, was perceived as unbeatable.

As hard as this may be for some to accept, Tyson's lack of toughness is what identifies him most as a fighter. Yes, that's his defining characteristic, more than his power and hand speed. History lesson: No fighter knocks out every opponent, and if you're dependent on your punch, you better have something to fall back on when confronted by that opponent you can't knock out. Tyson didn't have that Saturday night ... just like he never had it on any other night he needed it.

If you asked the first 100 people leaving the MCI Center Saturday night, "Who would you rather have to take the title from, Mike Tyson at the top of his game or Evander Holyfield at the top of his?" I'd bet anything that over 90 percent would rather have to fight Holyfield. With their reason and logic being, Tyson hits too hard and Holyfield isn't a great puncher. However, the object is to win and it takes more to beat Holyfield than it does Tyson.

Personally, I'd rather fight Tyson in a second. Sure, he's capable of beating his opponent worse than Holyfield, but don't you want to win? That's why Holyfield is scarier. A fighter who has dynamite in both hands, but has the heart of the Cowardly Lion is more beatable. How often has it been said that if a fighter gets past the first couple rounds with Tyson, he had a better chance of winning?

When has that ever been said about Holyfield? How about never. To beat Holyfield when he was on top of his game, a fighter had to just about beat him to death. See the 10th round of his first fight with Bowe. Can any objective boxing observer with a morsel of a clue imagine Tyson surviving a fight like that? Hell no. He would've quit long before the fight got to that point. He always has.

How about Tyson having the type of toughness that Ali and Frazier showed in Manila? The pounding George Foreman took from Holyfield at age 42? Or Willard from Dempsey or Marciano from Walcott in their first fight? Here's one, Joe Frazier got up six times against George Foreman before the fight was stopped. How many times does Tyson get up? That's if he even shows up for the fight at all. Remember, he backed out of fighting the same Foreman whom Holyfield defended his title against.

Tyson quit against Holyfield, a blown-up crusierweight. He quit against Danny Williams, a fighter known for having panic attacks before a fight, which is what made him the perfect Tyson opponent. And he quit Saturday night against Kevin McBride when he realized he couldn't win by intimidation and showing up. McBride was knocked out by a fighter who lost 17 of his last 18 fights. Luckily for him he fought McBride, or it would've been 0-18. Yet McBride could make Tyson quit. Can't wait to hear how great McBride becomes off of beating Tyson.

After knocking Tyson out, Williams, like Buster Douglas, was suddenly a title contender. In his next fight against Vitali Klitschko, we saw how well he contended, losing all eight rounds of the bout. In the next few days, every excuse will be made for Tyson. His age, inactivity, no Kevin Rooney, doing time in prison, getting divorced, lack of motivation and maybe we'll even hear that his boxing shoes were too tight, keeping him from throwing combinations. Wrong.

Tyson showed the toughness of the Church Lady his entire career. That is why he never was an all-time heavyweight great for even one day of his career. His hand speed and two-handed power couldn't compensate for his lack of character. He never once won or pulled out a tough fight. Hats off to Freddie Roach, who was fired by Tyson for suggesting that he thought Tyson could have gotten up against Williams, instead of sitting there being counted out.

Let the excuses begin.

POJO_Risin
06-12-2005, 01:59 PM
I couldn't have said it any better myself...

ALinChainz
06-12-2005, 02:37 PM
Too bad.

I was arouond for the rise and fall.

He was unreal at one time, nothing like I had ever seen.

POJO_Risin
06-12-2005, 02:48 PM
Yeah...it was...but who did he really EVER fight?

freak
06-12-2005, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by POJO_Risin
Yeah...it was...but who did he really EVER fight?

That's the thing about Tyson. He came around when the heavyweight division was as piss-poor as it is now.

He'd never have had a chance in the 1970s crop of heavyweights. Too many hard hitters and iron chins.

You can see his future clear back when he fought "Bonecrusher" Smith. When Smith kept tying him up instead of being cooperative and back-pedaling, Tyson was at a dead loss.

POJO_Risin
06-12-2005, 05:48 PM
The fucking guy is a bum...and when you really go back and look...the only good heavy's he ever fought...he lost...

ALinChainz
06-12-2005, 06:15 PM
Mike Tyson Chronology


June 12, 2005


1978 -- Arrested for purse snatching as a 12-year-old in Brooklyn and sent to Tryon School for Boys.

1979 -- A boxing instructor at a New York State correction facility for boys brings Tyson to the attention of Cus D'Amato, who had guided Floyd Patterson to the heavyweight title.

March 6, 1985 -- In his professional debut, Tyson defeats Hector Mercedes in one round.

Nov. 22, 1986 -- Tyson knocks out Trevor Berbick in the second round, winning the WBC heavyweight title to become the youngest heavyweight champion in history at age 20.

March 3, 1987 -- Tyson defeats James ``Bonecrusher'' Smith in Las Vegas to win the WBA heavyweight title.

June 21, 1987 -- A parking lot attendant says Tyson tried to kiss a female employee and struck the male attendant. He is charged with misdemeanor assault and battery and assault with a deadly weapon, and pays $105,000 to settle the case.

Aug. 1, 1987 -- Tyson beats Tony Tucker to retain the WBA-WBC heavyweight titles and win the IBF heavyweight title.

Feb. 9, 1988 -- Actress Robin Givens and Tyson marry in New York.

Aug. 23, 1988 -- Tyson breaks a bone in his right hand in a 4 a.m. street brawl with boxer Mitch Green in Harlem.

Sept. 30, 1988 -- Givens says in a nationally televised interview that Tyson is a manic-depressive and that she is afraid of him. Tyson sits meekly next to her.

Oct. 2, 1988 -- Police go to Tyson's Bernardsville, N.J., home after he hurls furniture out the window and forces Givens and her mother to flee the house.

Oct. 7, 1988 -- Givens files for divorce.

Feb. 14, 1989 -- Tyson and Givens are divorced in the Dominican Republic.

Feb. 11, 1990 -- In a stunning upset, Tyson is knocked out by James ``Buster'' Douglas in the 10th round and loses his world heavyweight title.

July 18, 1991 -- Tyson meets Desiree Washington, a beauty pageant contestant, at a rehearsal. They go to the boxer's hotel room in the early morning hours.

Sept. 9, 1991 -- A special grand jury indicts Tyson on rape and three other charges. Two days later, he is booked in Indianapolis and released on a $30,000 cash bond.

Jan.-March 1992 -- Tyson is convicted of rape and sentenced to 10 years in prison, four suspended.

March 25, 1995 -- Tyson is released from the Indiana Youth Center near Plainfield, Ind.

August 19, 1995 -- Tyson begins comeback with 89-second victory over Peter McNeeley in Las Vegas.

March 16, 1996 -- Tyson knocks out Frank Bruno in third round to win the WBC heavyweight title in Las Vegas.

Nov. 9, 1996 -- Evander Holyfield stops Tyson in the 11th round for the WBA title.

April 1997 -- Tyson marries Monica Turner in New York.

June 28, 1997 -- Tyson is disqualified after the third round for biting Holyfield's ears. Tyson claims he was retaliating for a head butt inflicted by Holyfield that opened up a gash above his right eye. Referee Mills Lane says the butt was accidental.

July 9, 1997 -- The Nevada State Athletic Commission, in a 5-0 vote, revokes Mike Tyson's boxing license and fines him $3 million for biting Holyfield in their June 28 WBA championship bout. Tyson, who also is ordered to pay legal costs, can apply for reinstatement of his license in one year.

March 5, 1998 -- Tyson files a $100 million lawsuit against Don King, accusing the promoter of cheating him out of tens of millions of dollars.

Aug. 31, 1998 -- Tyson is involved in a minor auto accident in Gaithersburg, Md., and kicks and punches two men from other cars.

Oct. 19, 1998 -- The Nevada Athletic Commission votes 4-1 to restore Tyson's boxing license.

Jan. 16, 1999 -- Tyson knocks out Francois Botha with 1 second left in the fifth round in his first fight in 19 months. It is only Tyson's seventh fight in eight years. At the end of four rounds all three judges have Botha ahead.

Feb. 5, 1999 -- Tyson is sentenced to two concurrent two-year sentences for assaulting the two motorists after a traffic accident last summer.

May 24, 1999 -- Tyson is released from a Maryland jail after serving 3 1/2 months for assaulting the two motorists.

Oct. 23, 1999 -- Tyson knocks down Orlin Norris with a punch after the bell ending the first round. Norris hurts knee in fall and cannot continue. Fight is ruled a no-contest. No disciplinary action is taken.

Aug. 23, 2000 -- Tyson is fined $187,500 by the British Boxing Board of Control for misconduct.

Jan. 18, 2002 -- Tyson's wife Monica sues for divorce. Tyson countersues.

Jan. 22, 2002 -- Tyson throws a punch at a Lennox Lewis bodyguard who had pushed him, and Lewis throws a punch at Tyson, setting of a melee at a news conference to formally announce Tyson's scheduled fight against Lewis on April 6 in Las Vegas.

Jan. 29, 2002 -- Tyson was denied a boxing license by the Nevada State Athletic Commission because of his melee with Lewis.

March 25, 2002 -- Memphis, Tenn., lands Tyson-Lewis fight, selling out the tickets for a record $23 million gate.

June 8, 2002 -- Tyson is knocked out by Lewis in the eighth round of their heavyweight title bout in Memphis, Tenn.

Feb. 22, 2003 -- Tyson stops Clifford Etienne just 49 seconds into the first round in Memphis, Tenn.

July 21, 2003 -- Tyson is arrested after a brawl with two men outside a Brooklyn hotel and charged with assault and disorderly conduct.

Aug. 1, 2003 -- Tyson announces that he has filed for Chapter 11 protection in U.S. Bankruptcy Court, claiming he has squandered nearly $300 million through lavish spending and bad advice.

Feb. 26, 2004 -- Tyson avoids a return to jail by agreeing to plead guilty to disorderly conduct in a brawl with two men outside a Brooklyn hotel in 2003.

July 30, 2004 -- Tyson is stopped in the fourth round by unheralded British heavyweight Danny Williams, who proposes to his girlfriend in the ring after the win. She accepts.

June 11, 2005 -- Tyson's career more than likely ends when he quits after the sixth round after desperately trying to foul his way to a win against Kevin McBride.

Sarge's Little Helper
06-12-2005, 06:15 PM
Mike Tyson Chronology


June 12, 2005


1978 -- Arrested for purse snatching as a 12-year-old in Brooklyn and sent to Tryon School for Boys.

1979 -- A boxing instructor at a New York State correction facility for boys brings Tyson to the attention of Cus D'Amato, who had guided Floyd Patterson to the heavyweight title.

March 6, 1985 -- In his professional debut, Tyson defeats Hector Mercedes in one round.

Nov. 22, 1986 -- Tyson knocks out Trevor Berbick in the second round, winning the WBC heavyweight title to become the youngest heavyweight champion in history at age 20.

March 3, 1987 -- Tyson defeats James ``Bonecrusher'' Smith in Las Vegas to win the WBA heavyweight title.

June 21, 1987 -- A parking lot attendant says Tyson tried to kiss a female employee and struck the male attendant. He is charged with misdemeanor assault and battery and assault with a deadly weapon, and pays $105,000 to settle the case.

Aug. 1, 1987 -- Tyson beats Tony Tucker to retain the WBA-WBC heavyweight titles and win the IBF heavyweight title.

Feb. 9, 1988 -- Actress Robin Givens and Tyson marry in New York.

Aug. 23, 1988 -- Tyson breaks a bone in his right hand in a 4 a.m. street brawl with boxer Mitch Green in Harlem.

Sept. 30, 1988 -- Givens says in a nationally televised interview that Tyson is a manic-depressive and that she is afraid of him. Tyson sits meekly next to her.

Oct. 2, 1988 -- Police go to Tyson's Bernardsville, N.J., home after he hurls furniture out the window and forces Givens and her mother to flee the house.

Oct. 7, 1988 -- Givens files for divorce.

Feb. 14, 1989 -- Tyson and Givens are divorced in the Dominican Republic.

Feb. 11, 1990 -- In a stunning upset, Tyson is knocked out by James ``Buster'' Douglas in the 10th round and loses his world heavyweight title.

July 18, 1991 -- Tyson meets Desiree Washington, a beauty pageant contestant, at a rehearsal. They go to the boxer's hotel room in the early morning hours.

Sept. 9, 1991 -- A special grand jury indicts Tyson on rape and three other charges. Two days later, he is booked in Indianapolis and released on a $30,000 cash bond.

Jan.-March 1992 -- Tyson is convicted of rape and sentenced to 10 years in prison, four suspended.

March 25, 1995 -- Tyson is released from the Indiana Youth Center near Plainfield, Ind.

August 19, 1995 -- Tyson begins comeback with 89-second victory over Peter McNeeley in Las Vegas.

March 16, 1996 -- Tyson knocks out Frank Bruno in third round to win the WBC heavyweight title in Las Vegas.

Nov. 9, 1996 -- Evander Holyfield stops Tyson in the 11th round for the WBA title.

April 1997 -- Tyson marries Monica Turner in New York.

June 28, 1997 -- Tyson is disqualified after the third round for biting Holyfield's ears. Tyson claims he was retaliating for a head butt inflicted by Holyfield that opened up a gash above his right eye. Referee Mills Lane says the butt was accidental.

July 9, 1997 -- The Nevada State Athletic Commission, in a 5-0 vote, revokes Mike Tyson's boxing license and fines him $3 million for biting Holyfield in their June 28 WBA championship bout. Tyson, who also is ordered to pay legal costs, can apply for reinstatement of his license in one year.

March 5, 1998 -- Tyson files a $100 million lawsuit against Don King, accusing the promoter of cheating him out of tens of millions of dollars.

Aug. 31, 1998 -- Tyson is involved in a minor auto accident in Gaithersburg, Md., and kicks and punches two men from other cars.

Oct. 19, 1998 -- The Nevada Athletic Commission votes 4-1 to restore Tyson's boxing license.

Jan. 16, 1999 -- Tyson knocks out Francois Botha with 1 second left in the fifth round in his first fight in 19 months. It is only Tyson's seventh fight in eight years. At the end of four rounds all three judges have Botha ahead.

Feb. 5, 1999 -- Tyson is sentenced to two concurrent two-year sentences for assaulting the two motorists after a traffic accident last summer.

May 24, 1999 -- Tyson is released from a Maryland jail after serving 3 1/2 months for assaulting the two motorists.

Oct. 23, 1999 -- Tyson knocks down Orlin Norris with a punch after the bell ending the first round. Norris hurts knee in fall and cannot continue. Fight is ruled a no-contest. No disciplinary action is taken.

Aug. 23, 2000 -- Tyson is fined $187,500 by the British Boxing Board of Control for misconduct.

Jan. 18, 2002 -- Tyson's wife Monica sues for divorce. Tyson countersues.

Jan. 22, 2002 -- Tyson throws a punch at a Lennox Lewis bodyguard who had pushed him, and Lewis throws a punch at Tyson, setting of a melee at a news conference to formally announce Tyson's scheduled fight against Lewis on April 6 in Las Vegas.

Jan. 29, 2002 -- Tyson was denied a boxing license by the Nevada State Athletic Commission because of his melee with Lewis.

March 25, 2002 -- Memphis, Tenn., lands Tyson-Lewis fight, selling out the tickets for a record $23 million gate.

June 8, 2002 -- Tyson is knocked out by Lewis in the eighth round of their heavyweight title bout in Memphis, Tenn.

Feb. 22, 2003 -- Tyson stops Clifford Etienne just 49 seconds into the first round in Memphis, Tenn.

July 21, 2003 -- Tyson is arrested after a brawl with two men outside a Brooklyn hotel and charged with assault and disorderly conduct.

Aug. 1, 2003 -- Tyson announces that he has filed for Chapter 11 protection in U.S. Bankruptcy Court, claiming he has squandered nearly $300 million through lavish spending and bad advice.

Feb. 26, 2004 -- Tyson avoids a return to jail by agreeing to plead guilty to disorderly conduct in a brawl with two men outside a Brooklyn hotel in 2003.

July 30, 2004 -- Tyson is stopped in the fourth round by unheralded British heavyweight Danny Williams, who proposes to his girlfriend in the ring after the win. She accepts.

June 11, 2005 -- Tyson's career more than likely ends when he quits after the sixth round after desperately trying to foul his way to a win against Kevin McBride.

Oops. I wasn't paying attention. Tell me again what is going on.

DavidLeeNatra
06-13-2005, 06:28 AM
ali wouldn't even have had him as a sparring partner...long live the GREATEST OF ALL TIMES!!!

http://www.float-like-a-butterfly.de/alifra4.jpg

Axl S
06-13-2005, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by DavidLeeNatra
ali wouldn't even have had him as a sparring partner...long live the GREATEST OF ALL TIMES!!!

http://www.float-like-a-butterfly.de/alifra4.jpg






Amen to that.Tyson looked good in the ring but he never really fought killers like ali did

POJO_Risin
06-14-2005, 06:54 AM
Funny thing...there was a ring of Tyson followers before the bum got bounced on Saturday...

again...Tyson wouldn't have lasted 5 rounds with Ali...

ULTRAMAN VH
06-14-2005, 10:11 AM
In his day, Mike Tyson was a MACHINE. I felt he had skill. I am not defending him. He is a pathetic thug. But in his prime he displayed extraordinary skill. His head movement and hand speed were amazing and he threw punches from his center, which gave him awesome knockout power. Mike lacked education and intelligence. With the loss of his step father, Kevin Rooney and his 1st manager he became a man without guidance. Enter Don King, large amounts of money, a Hollywood wife and you have a recipe for disaster. He was a child in a man's body. I feel if he had put his ego aside and taken responsibility for his actions, the 90's may have played out a little differently. After the Douglas loss, he should have gone back to basics and rehired his original training crew. But no he went and hired a bunch of YES men because his ego had grown to gargantuan proportions. He should be a great example for future boxer's on what not to do when fame and fortune come your way.
As far as great heavy weight champs go, Rocky Marciano was the Greatest, not Ali. Ali was an extraordinary boxer with a controversial big mouth. And we all know Americans love drama and controversy. Marciano was a quiet champion who came into the ring, destroyed his opponents and went on about his business. The only edge Ali may have had on the Rock was his amazing footwork.

POJO_Risin
06-14-2005, 01:17 PM
Marciano probably shouldn't even be mentioned top 10...

WHO DID HE FIGHT? Joe Louis?...5 years after the END of his prime...

Marciano fought nobody...

He had a great chin...but he fought nobody...had he have fought in Ali's era...probably the greatest heavyweight era of all time...

He would have been a footnote...

DRAMA? Nobody has even talked about the drama with Ali...it's skill...and WHO he beat for the titles...

Tyson?...read the article...and I happen to agree with it.

Tyson was a machine...I agree...but the one thing that his FATHER FIGURE (Cus D'Amato--not Rooney) did very well for Mike was avoid top heavys...and promoted the fuck out of him...


Tyson had two things working for him that blurred who he really was as a fighter, starting with the fact that he was the most brilliantly managed fighter in boxing history. On his way up, he was promoted and hyped to be such a devastating puncher that no fighter could withstand his punch. Yet he lost in his prime by knockout to a fighter who never beat a top heavyweight before or after he knocked Tyson out. IN HIS PRIME...he loses to Buster Douglass...who...well...sucks...


As hard as this may be for some to accept, Tyson's lack of toughness is what identifies him most as a fighter. Yes, that's his defining characteristic, more than his power and hand speed. History lesson: No fighter knocks out every opponent, and if you're dependent on your punch, you better have something to fall back on when confronted by that opponent you can't knock out. Tyson didn't have that Saturday night ... just like he never had it on any other night he needed it.

Every fighter that didn't go down...that came back with something...for the most part...beat Tyson...

He's overrated...and not in Ali's class...

at the height of their games...between Holyfield and Tyson...I'd go with Holyfield...for his heart...and his tenacity...it would have beat Tyson every time...

I agree with you though...he is an example of what not to do...what you are saying COULD be true...

Axl S
06-14-2005, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by POJO_Risin
Funny thing...there was a ring of Tyson followers before the bum got bounced on Saturday...

again...Tyson wouldn't have lasted 5 rounds with Ali...

Im a fan of Iron Mike Tyson,The animal we saw fighting holyfeild.not this slow broken down bum we saw on saturday

Redballjets88
06-14-2005, 02:39 PM
he is the greatest fighter ever

Redballjets88
06-14-2005, 02:40 PM
....to never reach his full potential

POJO_Risin
06-14-2005, 02:43 PM
The Tyson we saw fighting Holyfield was getting his ass kicked...

in fight 1...he got knocked out...

in fight 2...he knew he was going to lose...so he fucking ate both of holyfields ears...and quit...

Axl S
06-14-2005, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by POJO_Risin
The Tyson we saw fighting Holyfield was getting his ass kicked...

in fight 1...he got knocked out...

in fight 2...he knew he was going to lose...so he fucking ate both of holyfields ears...and quit...


he was an animal is my point

ULTRAMAN VH
06-15-2005, 11:44 AM
Hey, Pojo thanks for the intelligent rebuttal to my reply, and not resorting to cheap shots and expletives. Anyway with the exception of Frazier, who did Ali fight??? And please don't mention Foreman, who was a muscle head bruiser who had 0 boxing prowess. I do not dislike ALI, he was a great charismatic champ. I just feel that Marciano would have cut threw Ali's finess and pummelled him. Just my opinion.

Hardrock69
06-15-2005, 11:23 PM
1. Regardless of how great a fighter Tyson was...one of my favorite pastimes in L.A. was to get together with some friends and chip in on the pay-per-view....

2. It was always a blast to see him charge out of the ring and beat the crap outta people.

3. He has been out of it for the last several fights....he got lucky with that dude from, where was it..Denmark? Sweden or some Scandinavian country....who looked like a giant meatloaf and who quit after 7 or 8 rounds....

4. An interesting matchup in the fantasy realms would be Ali & Tyson. My thoughts are that if Ali could handle the initial pummeling, technique would win in the end, and Tyson would get hit until he started thinking he was invisible (meaning he would have REALLY started taking a beating), and then eventually would have had Ali's fist drive straight through the front of his face and come out the back of his head....


But I am not expert.....
Just my tupence worth....

:cool: